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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2019
- A .303 British fired in a .270 Weatherby results in case head separation, danger and a major problem. Stuck brass in the chamber! Don't panic -- There is a good chance you can clear the barrel and use that rifle again! Join me to find out some tips and tricks! That stuck cartridge case won't be a problem for long. If this is helpful please support the channel with a thumbs up, subscribe, comment, and join me at Patreon. Thanks for being here.
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I met a guy who fired a .303 round in a 7 mm rem mag rifle, his barrel split, the forestock splintered and permanently damaged his hand. I cant recall what make his rifle was, It is fantastic to see an example where no catastrophic failure occurred! loading a rifle in a hurry, in a hunting situation is an easy recipe for this result!
Great tips! Good point about the access on the Mauser action, another good reason to love them.
Extremely important and useful.
As always, sir.
Teachers such as you are rare, the ones that teach you to learn.
Thank you.
Thank you!
I nearly fired a .308 through a 30 06 once, I was firing two rifles and had both kinds of ammo on the table. Luckily I caught it and didn't fire. Thanks for posting this video Sir.
it works just fine 314299 proved that ;) can't be any worse than me firing .303 British in a Mosin lol
@@Gungeek Did the 303 fire form to the chamber ?
@@RickNethery normal 303 wont chamber but the Reds during the Russian civil war modded 303 to fire in mosin rifles during shortage. I have a few vids on it, taliking about making and testing them lol :) th-cam.com/video/q2_vyXKLfZc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/iH2DJl1OKBA/w-d-xo.html
That would be potentially embarrassing, but not catastrophic. The case of the .308 Winchester will fill out all the brilliant
Thanks for the lesson. Good information
Very informative to someone who hasn't seen this before. Thanks. As an aside, this video made me think of the Mauser's recent M18 offering, which I know many despise due to it being nothing resembling Mauser. Maybe you saw it..but the recoil pad is removable and reveals a cavity which can hold a bore snake for emergencies! We'll all end up brainwashed by gimmicks in the end hah...
“Modern things.” Mike you summed that up very well. I have had stuck, well more like sticky, cases before, usually because they weren’t sized full length but just neck sized and fired in a different rifle. Actions with very little camming strength like multi lug actions lock up first. After destroying a couple extractors by for ing the bolt (slow learner I guess) I use a cleaning rod with bore guide from the muzzle to tap it out rather than stressing the extractor. Also much more careful to keep brass used in different rifles of the same caliber seperated by rifle. Never had the situation you are describing and found the video very informative. Also enjoying your patreon account now.
Good real world advise sir, many thanks.
Good job....this gunsmith just benefitted from your experience. Well presented and great idea with the expoxy.
Thank you Pappy! I'm glad it worked out. All the best.
An excellent explanation! Thank you.
REALLY good vid with a great job of demoing a/the stuck round...
Thanks GT!
LOL, I keep a sectional brass cleaning rod with me anytime I have a long gun so 1 person does. There is a way to remove stuck cases using the alloy, cerrosafe. You can reuse the metal so after buying in once it's good for life. The epoxy is also a great idea.
You bet - those brass rods can be life savers (not the candy) - and thanks for mentioning the cerrosafe. : )
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns The cadmium isn't safe and it contains a significant amount so don't put it in your mouth...I suppose we have to say that today..? :)
Good video !
Excellent video an explanation of a case rupture, especially for something a dramatic as a .303 getting loaded into a .270 Weatherby.
Did this incident occur in a Weatherby Mark V?
The good news is that no one was hurt in this incident. Still, the moral of this story is to be certain that the proper ammo is being used in the appropriate firearm.
As to the accuracy race as it pertains to hunting I enjoyed your thoughts on it. The reality is that all these sub-moa guaranteed or accuracy enhanced hunting rifles can get that accuracy from a solid rest on a bench in sterile conditions. The problem is that hunting is not sterile. It is wet, cold, dry, hot, windy, snowy, humid, and rests are something that either a person brought along or conjured up from the surroundings if lucky. That is why your comment on being able to access the chamber and magazine of a hunting rifle rates above having that bullet on top of bullet accuracy makes sense. Unfortunately, it seems as if a sizable portion of the hunting market has forgotten that they aren't shooting groups on a deer, elk, etc., but hunting.
Very well said and true!
Great comments. The Mark V was fine - although some brass and powder discoloration had to be cleaned up.
@@Nick-wn1xw Thank you.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I am glad to hear that the Mark V performed like a champ. Also, thank you for saying that my comments above were "great." All I did was to base them on my own hunting experience.
The funny thing about the current accuracy race in hunting rifles is how if it was applied to the pre-64 Model 70 that rifle would be declared to be practically junk. It had no glass bedding, no free-floated barrel as it was instead screwed to the stock, no sub-moa accuracy guarantee, and yet today it is considered to be among the finest bolt action hunting rifles ever crafted.
This type separation was very common when reloading the old 300 H&H , my buddy and I both ruined chambers digging them out with screwdrivers, oh well we wanted to rechamber them to wyb anyway, used to only cost about $20 to have that done, but now anytime this happens, rare but does happen , I find a tap and use an extension to tap into the stuck brass and simply tap it out, in fact sometimes the force of turning the tap tends to free them up
Thanks for sharing
Great smithing tip. Thanks.
Thank you!
This tip is a good one to help in other similar situations as well, good thinking! Epoxy and tissue are tools in every shop,...if not now,..I'll bet they soon will be.
Thank you for this.
Checking ammo is important. I was shooting my Marlin 1894 in 357M. The rifle is new to me and so I go through my regular exercise of trying different ammo and see what the rifle likes. Long story short, I had some factory lead cast ammo 158 gr, and as I was reloading the rifle, I noticed one of the rounds had the bullet seated much, much deeper than the rest (it was not hard to notice). I put that one aside concerned about the potential for it to be over pressured. Later I pulled the bullet and dumped the powder, which seemed like a proper load, and I ran the empty brass through my rifle to discharge the primer, for safe disposal. I really don't know what would have happened if I had fired that round, but why take a chance!
We should all be like you; but sometimes things go wrong and we have a lapse of judgment. An excellent rifle such as the Weatherby, can save the day though.
Happy new year's, matey
The best of the New Year to you Jeffrey!
The 270 Weatherby is one of my favorite cartridges. Beautiful round! No idea how anyone could mistake a 303 British cartridge for a 270 Weatherby round unless they were intoxicated. Anyway, it underscores the foolhardiness of shooting without polycarbonate shooting glasses. The person is darn lucky he didn't lose one or both eyes.
A young shooting buddy had his Springfield 7.62 M1-A undergo 2 slam fires. I kept telling him to get shooting glasses, but he brushed off the warning. The first slam fire caused debris to go into one of his eyes, and he was lucky the hospital was able to save his eyesight. Still not willing to get rid of the gun, at the range on another trip with a replacement rifle, a 2nd slam fire blowup caused brass debris to cut into his femoral thigh artery. He could have bled to death. The nearest hospital was 20 miles away. Luckily, another person was around to drive him there.
If a blowup like this happens in the field, even if you can get the case out, it wouldn't be wise to fire the gun until it was checked over by a gunsmith with gauges.
Alarming storied Will : ( but mistakes happen. Wise words of caution from you. Thanks for writing.
My wife was very lucky when her Winchester 100 slam fired and blew in two, which was caused by the faulty firing pins, this happened long before Winchester admitted to the problem
Thank you for video.
Thank you!
Thanks.
First time at the range with my Walther p22 had a misfire. I always wait the 30 sec to a minute before proceeding. Dropped the magazine and the case remained in the barrel when I operated the slide. Extractor wouldn’t grab the case. So I had to wait for the range master to clear the firearm. Now I’ll keep a plastic 22lr cleaning rode to tap out the case with the round.
The owner couldn't have picked a safer action to have case head separation in even if in error since the mark v was designed to deal with pressure safely and away from the shooter. Plus those actions have even been tested with squibs with another round behind them with almost no damage and the barrel was still in spec in a mark v.
I have a much simpler method than this ... much simpler ... this is a great video and all and thank you for your time to post this on TH-cam and all and I'm pressing the like button now ... NOW!!! let me explain my method which I hope will help everyone here ... I have an 1873 Winchester Level Action 357 Magnum - 38 Special ... once I was in the shooting range and shot with 357 Magnum and the bullet of course got fired and went out the barrel and half of the brass broken came out of the bottom of the barrel where loading and the other broken half got stuck in the barrel about 1.5" deep in there ... so I read on forums that you could take it to a gunsmith and it might cost couple of hundred dollars to get it out or you would need a new barrel ... and stuff ... so I was like "Oh Shoot! Now what!!!? ...... then the light bulb turned on above my head ....
Check this out!!! .... what you need is "rubber" ... hard rubber ... like you know the Papermate soft grip rubber where you hold the pen and write ... if you have that kind of pen ... take out the rubber off the pen like 2 of them ... (you can also use bicycle rubber tube materiel as well - any hard small piece of rubber) ...then you need the plastic window blind rod ... which is usually 36" long ... so take off the rod off of the window blind (don't worry, you will put it back later and the wife should not Bitch at you) also this is a great tool because this will not damage any part of your inner barrel because it is plastic, just in case ... then grab your rubber mallet ...
Here we go ... put the rifle's butt on the floor (use a rug or something so you don't scratch the butt) ... now stick the Papermate grip rubbers folded in half from the top into the barrel from the top 1 or 2 or 3 of them depending on the barrel's aperture ... now ... put the Blind's plastic rod in the barrel from the top ... now, gently start tapping and hammering the plastic rod into the barrel as it pushes the Papermate rubbers towards the stuck brass ... probably within the first 5 taps you are already at the brass ... now!!! from this point on when you start tapping you will feel the resistance ... keep on tapping brother ... keep on tapping in ... not to hard and not flimsy ... be patient ... in about 40 taps ... the brass is out of the barrel ..... and now!? ... God Bless you all and America! Take care ...
Awesome - thanks for sending!
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns God Bless you sir, and Happy Thanksgiving!!! I meant no harm or disrespect ... I just wanted to share what actually worked for me and was pretty quick ... your method also rocks! and I thank you for sharing sir.
You can also use a tap and screw it into the stuck brass, and simply knock it out, in fact sometimes the turning force loosens the brass and it falls out
My reload die scratches my case. Now is my die bad now. My best friend died and his wife gave me all his reloading stuff. So I’m just learning.
I remember one man Put a 300 blackout in a .223 and fired it.
You could imagine what would happen
Uh - oh.....blackout
Double checking rounds to make sure everything matches in reference to the caliber is always worth the extra 5 seconds. Accidents can happen to any of us.
I've heard of incidents with 9mm/40 S&W where someone was shooting their 40's and they accidentally inserted a magazine of 9's, oops!
Reminds me of the time Mom called and said there was a sick woodchuck in front of her house. I Was at the shop when she called so i asked one of my employees if he had a firearm in his car. He said sure and produced a Moisin rifle and a box of 307 winchesters. I said "they dont match" and he told me they functioned well but extraction could be sketchy. I crused over to Moms and shot the very sick wood chuck and everything worked OK. They bulge a bit in front of the head, that's all.
Shameful...
Not having a firearm and having to borrow, how embarrassing.
Hopefully the lesson is learned ...
Fire Forming Brass.....!!
If you're going to use epoxy, I wonder if you could epoxy an eye screw into the case. Then you could grab the eye screw with pliers or something and maybe pull the case out rather than going in from the muzzle and possibly damaging the cleaning rod or barrel..
Likely you’ll just bend open the eye of the screw unless it’s welded closed.
What happened to the .311 bullet forced down a .284 bore? In the field I think you are going to be out of action unless you have a backup rifle. I always bring an aluminum rod to camp with me but I don't normally bring epoxy. The worst case is when you have a live round stick in the chamber. Then there is the round that didn't get a charge of powder and the primer provided just enough pressure to firmly lodge the bullet in the rifling. Something much more common if one is reloading in the field without all the conveniences of a reloading bench. One would hope in that case the shooter would check his bore before chambering another round!! Some methods can increase the complexity of the solution in a bad way.
Thank you for the tips and reminder to only use the correct ammo for the firearm. I was wondering if one could use a bore snake from the muzzle end to remove the expanded brass.
Hi Rich - could work if it can snag the broken case and be pulled through from the chamber end - but likely the snake will get hung up with not enough grip to pull the case out - or just fall straight through.
The only other way I have been able to get them out is to find the correct size tap, make sure it is not to big, and use an extension to screw it into the stuck brass then tap it out
Great video I'm surprised that the bullet went the whole way through the barrel. That means the .311 bullet swedged down to .277. Gas pressure always takes the path of least resistance. You would think in this case that would be where the case separated. Never had a case separate like that but did have a cousin who's kid jammed a fired case into his rifle so hard that the extractor cut through the rim ,Don't ask LOL. We were at camp the day before dear season. The 3 piece cleaning rods we had with us wasn't strong enough to knock it out. I remembered a trick a gun smith showed me. We took 1 piece of the cleaning rod put on a brush and wrapped a piece of wet paper towel around it. Almost filled the bore with water. Put in the brush and piece of rod then hit it with a mallet. Out popped the case and of course all the water. Ps was the guy blind, how do you mix up .270 Weatherby and .303 British?
In 303 competitive shooting ,case separation is quite common and not too difficult to remove, mainly because it's the correct cartridge in the correct chamber,of course.
Hi John - it is surprising how bullets get swaged down : pressure does interesting things - as you say. Mixing up the rounds seems difficult but so many things might have happened. Like all accidents - there was no intention - it just happened. I usually don't ask. : )
Hi Rupert - good point. I've seen that - the stretch is a little more in the .303.
Found 2 30-30 cases that had been fired in a 303, they fire formed but didnt split. I show one of them on one my unusual cartridge case videos.
While I can see that happening, 30-30 in a .303 How do you put a .303 in a .270 Weatherby they don't look anything alike
@@johnkendall6962 My bet is that someone wasn't paying attention to the ammo they were putting into their firearm. Perhaps they were talking to a buddy when loading, or perhaps they had brought multiple guns to the range and various calibers were strewn about on the bench, or perhaps it snuck in during reloading,. etc. Unfortunately, there are many ways for the wrong ammo to get mixed in and is why a person has to make certain that every single round is correct for the rifle being shot.
Thanks for mentioning and showing - surprising how far brass can stretch.
Hi John, No one knows but these things happen. I guess cartridges get mixed up. We've all seen some remarkable things and wonder "How did that happen; that could never happen!" - but it did. : ) Life.
Great advice Trapdoor.
A friend of mine did a post mortem on a Mini 14 that was fed a 30 carbine. It was wrecked! he said with lots of persuasion he extracted a very long .22 bullet from the bore.
Now that is interesting! People have written me with a few examples but not the .30 Carbine / Mini 14 disaster.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns When I had a Ruger blackhawk in .30 carbine I wished I could get rimmed .30 carbine cases because case length was important for good ignition and thus accuracy. I tried 32-20 cases but the brass were too thin to reload well. Enter the .327 mag. They are quite hot and work reasonably well. The head diameter is a bit small but they worked, needs more study but they worked in my Marlin 62.
This just happened to my 3006 with a reload. The shell stayed intact and the gunsmith took care of it.
Happens a lot Brandon - glad your Smith cleared it. All the best to you.
What happened to the projectile? If it's a greater diameter than the intended bore, would it get stuck in the bore, or damage it, or did it? Did it deform enough to fit the rifled portion of the barrel and be shot out of the muzzle? Obviously it was no longer in the casing when it ruptured.
I read a book recently on weatherby, if I remember right he wanted his actions for the mk v to sustain over 60000 copper units, and also the bullet left the barrel? What was the rifling and bore condition after the event?
Hello MFitz - perfect condition. The barrel swaged the oversize bullet down and the bullet exited normally, but was never found. The action had brass and powder residue but is otherwise in fully functional condition - as excellent as Weatherby says.
i was wondering that too. That is quite a swage.
As I recall he vastly overloaded a round, then used it to shoot out another bullet he had lodged in the barrel , they are a very strong action
One interesting way I've seen quite a bit is to do a chamber cast using something like Cerrosafe (don't know the generic term or name).
Good thought - I do have a lead like material that works very well for chamber castings; melts at a very low temp.
Soo i have a wrong cartridge stuck in my k98, the bolt is closed and stuck, i don't know how to fix this and its not even flinching, any tip on how to fix this?
Can you use heat noting different coefficients of expansion between steel and brass
Good thought - I tried different heating and cooling methods; eventually something might work but the epoxy works every time.
Good day. If cases are not overloaded, what are signs that they should be retired? Thank you for the tips. When I was at the range yesterday I double-checked that all 60 rounds were 54R versus other reload calibers.
I usually look for cracks or anything uneven at the neck - sometimes the brass flows forward at irregular rates and that show up on the front edge of the neck. If the brass has moved forward then it came from somewhere else in the case - which means it is thinner and weaker. I take one case and cut it in half to see how the cases in a group might be wearing. I usually see thinning in front of the rim - the web area - on the inside - which leads to case head separation - as you know. Overall cases are pretty durable - any sign of change and I retire them. Hope this helps.
USOG thank you. So far my brass is in good shape. And I don’t see any difference between my once fired and that which has been fired 5 times. However, I’ll pay attention to the extent of the case trimming.
By the way, the endoscope I received for Christmas is a fantastic tool. Do you still have your Mosin? I’d love to see a video of the chamber to crown. Cheers
I've heard it said that once you've had a case head separation incident, the gas has necessarily cut a groove in the chamber at the point of separation, such that the next firings will always bulge the case walls into that groove, and therefore both extraction and case life will never be as good as before the incident. Any thoughts or experience on that point?
Hello SLS 60, If the separation occurs inside the chamber there is a chance of gas flame cutting of the chamber wall - but I have never seen this. Generally the case head separates just outside of the chamber - where the chamber does not support the brass. As such, the pressure builds until the brass ruptures - which is at a lower pressure than the ordinary operating pressure of the cartridge. Anyway, one can have a peek at the chamber and see if there is any "ringing" or expansion; but this would not be expected as the pressure of ruptures is generally low - although there is an escape of gas and brass and potentially some flame erosion. Hope I explained this in an understandable way.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns X'lent reply. Thanks.
I have had several such separations, and never had or heard of that problem , we did ruin chambers by trying to dig them out with screwdrivers , I hardly think the firing could cut the chamber without leaving a mark on the brass
My brother once shot a 17hmr bullet out of a bolt action 22 magnum. It fired ok . He wont be doing that again haha
Might rattle a bit, have often fired 270's in 06's
I have to gun models that Ruger don't make anymore that I'm aware of. I have a m77 mark2 ultralight 270 it has a pencil barrel and a m77 mark2 22 hornet that is made in the Hawkeye now. Does this sound right?
Hi Marc - The Ultrlight was a major loss. The Hornet in the rotary mag is great - I didn't know they were discontinued. Ruger discontinues a lot of very fine guns - such as the Frontier Rifle, among others.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns the ultralight is one of the best hunting rifles I own. I just love the size and accuracy. Easy gun to carry for long periods.
Find a long machine bolt of an appropriate diameter for the inside of the case. Take out the rifle bolt run the machine bolt through the action and screw into the brass and pull it out. Else use a slide hammer with the end threaded screw in and tap it out.
Hi Scott - that sounds very good. Sometimes the brass is paper thin or less.
USOG thanks for the reply. My experience with this is zero, so my solution is likely a bit ham fisted. Really enjoy your content!
I have used a lag bolt bent at 90 degrees to extract stuck case.
I use a tap and extension to do the same thing , works great
That's a tiny bit worse than the time I fired .303 in a Mosin lol
Good reminder - these types of things are happening all the time; maybe talking about it more will increase awareness of how easy it is to get things confused. Thanks for writing.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns it wasn't by mistake lol I was testing the use of modded 303 by the Russian in their civil war ;)
Mike, what happened with the .303 bullet?
Hi Robert - swaged down and exited. Not sure where it went :)
Seems like the .303 being larger than the.270 Wby bore there could have been a burst barrel. Just wondering.
Hi Kenneth, Sometimes the barrels burst and sometimes they don't. .311 in .277 is probably on the edge; my .311 in .243 still didn't burst the barrel. Bullets can be swaged down more than one thinks and a few writers told me the bullets almost behave as liquids in some circumstances.
Bought a customized Mauser 98 in 308 (per the salesman). Had no stamp on the custom barrel. Loaded a Hornady Whittail 150 gr. and the rifle stock exploded in my hands. Only suffered a busted lip. Now the bolt is seized shut. More research showed the barrel was a .270, not a .308. How do I get the bolt to open so I can retrieve the cartridge and possibly salvage the rifle?
Hello - Sorry to hear about the accident - glad you're not hurt too badly 🙏 Spray the action with Ballistol and use a vice - then use a mallet or brass hammer to tap the bolt open. Have the works looked at though by a smith - I had this happen more than once and the actions were okay - but the barrel - no.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thanks, my friend, for your reply! I tried something like you advised and was able to get the bolt out after several massive whacks. (Mauser made a tough bolt handle!) The bore looks surprisingly clean after I ran a mop through it. The headstamp part of the cartridge is literally WELDED to the front of the chamber leading into the barrel. Looks like a bit of casing is also welded or lodged just inside the barrel where it meets the chamber. I gently used a small sharpened chisel and was able to remove half of that head, but I have to be very careful not to mess up the chamber with my chipping away. I'm soaking it in penetrating oil over the weekend and will tackle it again in a couple of days. I will definitely take it to a gunsmith to have it inspected for safety and to verify the actual caliber bore. God was good, as always, to protect me. Only suffered a few minor burn specs on my face and forearm. LESSON 1: Always (from now on) have a gunsmith verify the caliber of an unstamped barrel. LESSON 2: Think twice and do your homework before buying another customized Mauser. LESSON 3: God is good!
Ah ok, so to illustrate that we shouldn't mix up cartridges, you mix up cartridges. Totally clear.
😂
USOG, If You get a chance Sir, please watch My newest video.
It is dedicated to You, and two other great channels.
God Bless You, My Friend.
Hi Rick - I watched and commented. Super job and a learning experience - the best kind of experience!
God Speed : )
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thank You so much My Friend, I had a lot of fun making that video. Gods Speed.
A rimed case can be spotted across the room. This guy should sell his guns to some 1 with common senses
Kicks ass.
Dissenters dig weak pits with feabl shovels.
Meaning you, who perchance could shut up one day and listen.
Or not.
Maybe bears will come to a bait but never do i bring such bait back home, smelling as it does.
i dont know what happening here>?@@jonnybabylon