WTF is going on at PCGS?! 🤬 - PCGS Unboxing - PCGS Grading
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 เม.ย. 2023
- A PCGS unboxing with PCGS Grading results.
These are the PCGS submission results from my largest order I've submitted. Video link here: • My Insanely Huge PCGS ...
Too many errors to count... but I did.... and they're in this video. I have submitted a complaint to PCGS and am waiting for a reply. I will make a video when I get a resolution to this matter.
Please follow me on IG at RockysRamblings
#pcgs #pcgsunboxing #coins #coincollecting #coingrading #pcgserror #pcgsmistake - บันเทิง
Absolutely keep that ‘52 Proof 25C in that messed up holder!! It’s just awesome to be able to show off what people are dealing with when it comes to 3rd party grading cos
Yup. I think I’ll be doing that. I would hope there’s not a ton of them out there like that. Should make it worth more I’d think.
@@rockysramblings they e ist at ngc also. I have six from 2003 and 4
I bought a coin that a dealer friend had sent in, that was the wrong date and graded harshly. I bought it, sent it in to NGC where it came back 3 points higher with the right date. But the difference between MS60 and PR63 on a $2.5 Liberty made up for the error.
Sad what is going on. . . Pay more, get less. Greed and laziness. At risk is their reputation and return business. Greed and laziness, as a whole, drives inflation. Dishonesty is thievery.
Not good "long-term" business strategy.
@@rockysramblings Hello,
Thank you very much for this video. I honestly believe you saved me. I live in Florida and have coins I want to get graded and put into auctions. I contacted Annecs originally. After submitting photos of what I have, they referred me to either PCGS or NGC saying what I have is valuable and they really deal with lesser value coins.
So I have been going crazy deciding between the two because based on how professional they are that can cost me a lot of money in losses. I live in Florida, so NGC just seems to be the more intelligent route. What do you think?
I like these videos with the trueview before showing the grade. Thank you very much. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for watching!
I would actually love to own that 1952 25c proof in that goofy pcgs holder. It’s just too funny how ridiculously off they have become.
I am very disappointed with PCGS too. They don’t even take care of the issues for the customers anymore!? Wtf
Thank you for the grading information. I am new and inherit some coins.
Stop saying that pcgs is bad it's the best 😊😊
@@stormy5342 SO PCGS GOT AN "F", what grade would you give it? be honest now, will ya??? thank you!!!
This is a great video to let new collectors like myself know what to expect from PCGS grading. Thank you!
If you’re new I would really recommend ANACS. I’ve been very pleased with them so far in all areas. PCGS continues to falter.
The first thing to know is that "sending coins in for grading" is a misnomer. YOU have to grade the coin, and the TPG simply agrees or disagrees with you and certifies the coin. There IS a distinct difference. It is YOU that determines the grade, because that is what determines the declared value of the coin based on the TPG's valuation charts, which determines the grading tier the coin is to be submitted, which determines the fees you need to pay and the amount of insurance you need to put on your package. Meaning - you should be adept at grading before even attempting to send coins in for certification. Otherwise, you can potentially lose a ton of money for no reason.
The TPGs don't care - their job is to assess a coin's grade and any attribute/variety/error on the coin, and charge you, and make money doing so. If you send in coins hoping for a MS67 and it comes back MS64 that's your fault. You cannot send coins based on hopes. You have to figure out what the MINIMUM acceptable grade is to you, check the valuation and comps, then decide if it's worth the risk/reward to send in. For example, you have a 1938-D Jefferson (not FS) that is possibly MS67. You look in the price guide and the valuation is $100. But in MS66 is $40. The coin is a solid $20-25 all day raw. Since it costs $23 to get the coin graded, you have to figure if you spent $17 or less on the coin, if you get an MS66 you at least break even (not including buying 2-1/2" flips, packaging, shipping, the 3 month wait, etc.) So you really need MS67 to do "good" on the coin. The ONLY way to do this, is to send a coin that has the best possible chance at MS67+, with a minimum of MS67. In other words, you send better coins, you get better grades.
Also it's a fallacy to use ConFacts pictures for grading comps. The chances you get the same grader that graded those coins are unlikely to nil. You won't always have the luck of a grader who's expert in a coin you're submitting. Grading can be cruel. I've had as much success as I've had failure. And if you don't fail, you can't learn.
The problem with ANACS is that their grading is slightly different than the big 2, in that their concentration is on strict numerical grading. While that sounds great, not much consideration is considered for coins of exceptional luster or toning - therefore a coin that's totally flat in luster and one that's a luster bomb could both get the same grade. Also their qualifiers for full-steps coins are not within industry standards. Thus, with some exceptions, coins in ANACS slabs underperform those in NGC or PCGS slabs, of the same numerical grade. Where ANACS is great is for minor die varieties, which they'll attribute down to the die stage if possible. NGC and PCGS will only typically attribute the #1 and #2 variety listed under CONECA or Fivaz-Stanton, though NGC will attribute most CONECA listings provided you give them the attribution number.
@@louieatienza8762 hey just use who you would like to use don’t ever let one person’s experience tell you where to go I like NGC but that does not mean I will tell you to use them this guy has a few issues most of his issues were his own fault or lack of knowledge or him thinking his coin was something It was not
Very true!
Another thing, it would be soo easy for the companies to do better if they wanted to, they could easily track every coin grade that is flawed back to the "experets" that graded them since they all have a unique number. So they could start with getting rid of the lazy once's using a three strike out policy, which would instantly make over night improvements!
So glad I came across this. I just inherted some really nice old coins and was going to use PGCS but it appears best to use NGC instead.
I would actually recommend ANACS. I haven’t used NGC but ANACS is cheaper and doesn’t require a membership and they recognize all varieties of you are into varieties. Much faster turn around time and great customer service as well
If you want more value to the grade then ngc or pcgs are best. They’re considered the two top tier grading companies and so more value is added to the grade from them. But anacs is one step down from ngc and pcgs but anacs is higher tier then most. I wouldn’t go any lower than anacs otherwise your just wasting money in my opinion.
PCGS is ridiculously expensive, 4 to 6 months turn around time and requires paid membership to submit coins. I have used ANACS for over 400 coins and am very pleased with their grading and 30 day return. And the price is right also.
I would for sure hold on to that 1952 quarter that marked as a nickel. It’s funny to see they have it listed as a nickel, but then have the picture of the quarter.
Just goes to show, human error is a real thing and it happens to the best of us!
I’d almost argue that PCGS isn’t using multiple graders to grade their coins anymore also. I bet they are slapping a box in front of one kid and saying “good luck”
Sure seems that way!
It’s funny you would say that, on low value coins i.e. under $500, it typically will only touched by one grader and probably 2-3 seconds in QC. Sad really.
@M4A2Master False. The way grading works is that it goes to 2 graders. If they come to the same conclusion, that's what the coin is called. If they disagree, a 3rd grader states their opinion. If they all disagree, it sent to the finalizer who has the final say on the coins grade.
@@AustinsCoins it probably is supposed to go that way but with the amount of errors coming out of the major Coin grading companies right now something wrong is definitely happening.
They are in California, what you expect? Lol
I use NGC for all of my older coins, and I use PCGS for modern coins from the mint for just this reason. I have been screwed using PCGS and break coins out and send them to NGC and get a straight grade. Just happened to me too many times to use PCGS for older coins.
I started using ANACS last year for my error coins and regular coins and was shocked how conservative their grades have become. Definitely not over-grading, that's for sure.
Yeah I have a 31 coin submission are and they are not taking care of me at all my coins look horribly dirty like they just sat around for a three-months waiting for them to grade them open I mean they were like in pristine condition ms66 67 68 69 on these couple of times I didn't get any spoiled bands nothing I have to tell these guys I just said double die guys can you see that itching their this is error
Screwed me over on my 1969's HD dodder and they gave me neither one of them and said oh there can be doubling on every coin I can't WTF
Yeah the 1969 Lincoln penny is a proof and it has doubling on the front and the back not as grass dick is 2,000 pennies they said they found and then smelled her tomorrow cuz I thought they were fakes but it's on there and they didn't give me any attribution you have to tell them that's what you saw and then they have to agree with it so I had to regret it and they still didn't agree there bunch of assholes dude $1,200 and got s*** on
Hi I've just recently bought a silver and gold full oz sovereigns, thought as I was on my eBay account and I had also used the same seller before this time, and all was good, therefore I had no reason to doubt the fact that they both may well be restrikes. The silver one certainly looks the part, but unfortunately I'm not so sure about the gold one. As it's very shiny and with it being in the plastic grading case I'm to be honest not to sure about what I should do to try and verify the fact that it is or isn't. Has anyone else been struke by the same kind of thing. Any comments please thanks. As it's not like they were cheap. Many thanks people d 😮
PCGS lost the real graders now they got micky mouse crew
Labeling errors definitely do not add value to your coin. In fact it can lessen the value, because if the denomination is wrong, the grade probably is as well. Anyway, these labeling errors are much more common than you might think.
For the prices they charge they shouldn’t be making these simple errors
Hey Rocky! I told you I was looking forward to this video. You certainly didn't disappoint. I agree with all the PCGS mistakes you found. It's certainly sad we have to pay all this money and wait as long as we do to end up getting screwed in the end. I'd make them do a reconsideration and pay for all shipping and insurance fees both ways.
I would be more than happy to wait 6 months if necessary to get back a quality service I could trust. This completely damages my confidence in them. I can take the grades being off. That’s subjective. But when I see a quarter labeled a nickel….. that’s just pathetic
@@rockysramblings I definitely agree a with you. The grade being off and subjective is scary though. Especially after you spoke with customer service and they said that they've hired a bunch of new people. That is extremely worrisome.
Exactly why there is a CAC grading now. Then there will be a grading for CACed coins. Soon all holder's will look like a sponsored Nascar with all the grading stickers on them! It's all CRAP to get people's money!!
Just wanted to pass along what I was told back ten years or so ago....
I was told never send in bulk lots of anything for grading whether it's coins, stamps, sports cards, comic books, etc...
The reason being if you send in bulk lots for grading you get bulk quality/attention to detail grading.
I guess that means sometimes the difference between say getting a grade of 68/69 turns into 66/67.
Or expecting a grade of 68 with attributes...gets just a 68.
I've heard there are things that you could do to up the odds of getting the highest grade possible, but I can't provide any proof of that so I won't bother commenting on that.....but you might want to consider using an alias when submitting your coins and/or collectibles. But what's in a name? Ya know what I mean?😮😊😉 🙊🙉🙈
I’d be interested to hear what you tips for getting a higher grade are! Even if it’s just rumor. 😁
It's actually the opposite. Most of the modern TOP POP coins you see are the result of bulk-grading. Elite members can send solid date rolls for pre-screen/bulk grading and set the minimum threshold for grade, say MS67 5FS. Then you "pepper" the rolls with a few high grade candidates. The cream of the crop coins are either sent in through Express or Walk-Through, where you KNOW the coin will grade high. Also, when you make a submission with coins with hazing, severe cleaning, and even a counterfeit coin, it send a red flag to the graders, and they may not look at the rest of the sub favorably because the tone has been set. "Staging" is another strategy where you sort the coins in your sub to draw attention to the best ones. If you look at top pop coins, a high majority are in the top 3 spots in a sub and that's no accident. Also if you start a sub off good, it could put the grader in a mindset that the client has a good sub of coins.
Once they get that class action lawsuit they may start acting right, but unfortunately this is the way American companies do business now days milk customers dry and provide less than adequate service on the cheap and hope they don’t notice.
I wish I had the money to do something like that. Unfortunately since coin grading is subjective I’d probably lose. Idk.
The 64 Kennedy looks like machine doubling. I have a Morgan that I thought was doubling too.
That was my first thought Untill I saw the double serifs.
They messed my coins up big time. I had a 1921s Morgan Dollar MS66 and they took it all the way down to a damaged AU. Mind you it wasn't damaged until they tried to reholster it in a cross over. I am so disappointed. Now my $12k coin is worth $57. I would NEVER send another coin to them.
Sounds like them!
that is scary about PCGS now, they screwed on some of these coins.
Good thing I saw this video. Not giving a 25 cent proof B the proper and obvious grading and calling it a 5 cent us unforgivable. Makes coin grading with PCGS look real bad. Wow!
PCGS gives different grades for different years. It's tough for newbies to understand, but years with tough condition problems get better grades than the same grade for other years. I think they should be more consistent, but that's their style.
The grades were the least of my concern. By that point I was accepting the grades I’d gotten. But the way they rushed everything back to me and then I saw the two mislabeled coins made me question the whole order. And they have corrected some of the issues but I’m done with them now. It’s a shit show over there. I’ll do a video on it sooner or later. Just been busy this summer
True. NGC doesn't do that though.
Thanks for doing videos like this! I don't have a ton of disposable income, and I wanted to get a few family heirlooms in slabs so I can let my kids hold them and look at them. Nothing incredibly valuable, but they're sentimental. No way I'm wasting my money on PCGS these days. I'll probably do ANACS for the price if I decide to do it.
I’d use ANACS for that as well. I’ll be switching.
@user-hy8ug8ih3f people who think I’m just complaining about my grades clearly didn’t watch the video. There are clear issues here made by PCGS. So far they’ve agreed to take back 4 coins. We are currently discussing issues on 2 more. TWO MONTHS since I first raised complaints with them.
It still cost at anacs when I figured it out after everything it runs about $ 123.00 per coin and 4 month waiting for turn around. I figured it out at the low tiers and no cleaning. That starts at 50+dollars. It's all a scam to keep the poor hoping and steal your money, just like the lottery. Do the people really exist that have sold or bought these coins for millions. Really I don't think so, it's a hustle.
On the flying eagle cent, the 1 in the date is the biggest issue to me. It’s WAY fatter than the 1 used on certified examples
I can see the split series on the 'R'. You are correct, it is a variety for certain. I was going to send a bunch of my Benjis into PCGS but now I'm thinking twice about it!
The 64-D Kennedy looked like step-doubling, or "poor man's" doubling. The Flying Eagle is not supposed to look like clad/silver, but bronze. On the clad state quarters, I dont know of any variety besides Wisconsin, District of Columbia,
The flying eagle does look bronze. Maybe it’s the video making it look silver.
Im definitely second guessing sending my coins in now!
The quarter in the wrong holder shows the wrong denom on their website too, and the value is for a nickel so it's all sorts of messed up.
The worst part of dealing with bad grading is when these bums go out for the 2 martini lunch at the local bar.
I’ve always been a big fan of NGC and never had any problems with them. Have you ever gotten coins graded with them?
Nope. Not yet, but anyone but PCGS is looking better and better to me
The grading by pcgs seemed fine to me.Especially the 44s centavo ,1904 O Morgan,and the hazy proof.With the die varieties if the die markers don't match,it's not it.If you are not at that stage of collecting yet you shouldn't send in for variety attribution. Unless you have plenty of extra money.Not trying to be to be harsh ,we all live and learn.Speaking from experience
When it comes to varieties there are many different ones for most dates.If it's not a FS listed, pcgs will not recognize the variety.Learning the minting process and learning to read the die markers are key to attributing varieties.
@@gregorymccoy2842 Yeah, Rocky should gain more experience of what a nickle looks like. Sending in a nickle and expecting it to be graded as a quarter is an amateur mistake one, I'm sure you, wouldn't make.
@zzyzxRDFwy15 learn to comprehend English and then go re-read what I wrote or quit riding rockys nutz.He's at the beginning stages of learning and doesn't know how to attribute a variety to save his life,lol.Nothing I said was about the mistakes of pcgs (5c to 25c).I hate to see him waste his money on something that he will never get back.You might not have the backbone to stand up and say whats,what
There are so many similar reactions nowadays. I had an idea of creating a website in form of a data base where anyone can register every grading that they feel is obviously wrong, one would have to register so that every complaint can be linked to a person to protect against abuse of any kind, and also to be able to proof their mistake should any of the grading services get pissed of, which I'm sure they would. Anyone can register and then logg on and choose from a list of all grading services, upload photos and chose from a list of problems and also the possibility to add a note explaining ones thoughts. there should also be a complaint field for other problems, like unfair charges. The rate of t his site growing would be completely dependent on how bad of a job these grading companies does, so it's a perfect way to kick them where it hurts and forcing them to not abuse their monopoly. This site would probably grow fast and it would quickly get noticed by all the major grading companies, especially the ones who screws up a lot like PCGS and it would force them to do better. I don't think it would be a problem to get people to take the time submitting problems, because when you receive your coins back and find obvious mistake and signs of laziness, people get fired up and all that energy is more than enough to make people want to post about the problems. The numismatic community need to come together and do something like this. It wouldn't be too expensive to create this, but it could still be crowd founded and I'm sure there are a lot of disappointed customers that would be willing to chip in. I'm not a coin collector myself and don't know all the details that would go into how to make a complaint that touch on all angles of the problems that are common with grading mistakes, we would need people like you with a lot of experience of grading submissions, and someone that do websites. You have a small channel, but perhaps there are huge channels on youtube as well that would be interested in spreading information about a new database like this. It's up to the community to come together because there has to be some consequences for this constant behavior, there needs to be some accountability. That's the only way when it comes to monopolies, thats just the nature of it, they will never improve if they don't have to and the service will continue to get worse and worse at the same time as prices will go up and up. As long as they see that they can get away with it. If you made a graph over the last 10 years I doubt that their services has improved somewhere along that timeline, rather it has worsen consistently. I would love to be a part of something like this, but I think it needs to be people from USA involved since it's there all those companies are located, and we would need some coin collectors that are working in the judicial system to make sure it's made correctly and we don't get sued. I'm living on the other side of the planet. But I could at least try to plant the seed. Don't just submit coins, submit complaints! That our slogan :D
I don’t have the expertise or time to do something like that but I would be glad to get behind it if someone were to start it!
@@rockysramblings That's ok, are you in contact with other youtubers, just sharing the message could do a lot. If ot, no big deal, I'll take some time myself searching for video titles about problems with grading, I found another one and basically copy pasted my comment. Are there any big names you can recommend, and I'll make sure ti forward my own message there. Thanks for a great video!
I agree with the MS64 grade on the 87 cent. Lots of nicks on Lincokln's suit/shoulder. The nickel is not full steps, the three of them are interrupted on the left side of the main stairs. It's taken a long time and a lot of submissions like this but I now can see coins closer to the way PCGS does.
They’ve given me FS before without the left and right steps being full. I submitted both versions in order to make sure and they gave them both to me. It may be because the bottom step narrows.
@@rockysramblings I'm referring to the MAIN steps. There's a good contact mark across 3 of them on the top on the left side.
I agree with their grades, mostly .....I was grading these as the video progressed and before you moved your thumb for the reveal and pegged most of them. The 1959 quarter and 1896 Morgan I agree with you on. Missing VAM's on other Morgans, idk....I would need to examine under magnification myself, but yeah I can see them blowing off your paid for requests. They did not attribute those properly. The 5 c quarter is a crying @$$ shame really. Shoddy service by PCGS. The cleaned details on the 50 Centavos is typical PCGS bs. Cleaned with what? They don't know if it was really cleaned. The 1857 FE, I need to really look at it. The 1908 S looks genuine. The 1878 S is not cleaned. Once again, PCGS swings and misses with their "cleaned" bs. That coin wouldn't cartwheel had it been cleaned. Amateur hour indeed.
$5000 in submissions fees in 2022? Makes you think, right? Think of the nice coin you could have purchased for $5000? A better date Saint Gaudens?
3rd party coin grading and authentication is unnecessary, unless you plan to sell online or sight unseen, OR you plan to sell in-person to idiots, which unfortunately includes most of todays collectors. They actually think if a coin is encapsulated, that it changes the coin! Like some kind of new aged alchemy of sorts. Its ridiculous.
I shake my head wondering why so many in this hobby are subletting an interesting and crucial aspect of this hobby (grading and authentication) to a third party, and pay a fee for this worthless service to boot!
And why submit modern coins to grading services in the 1st place? You are effectively massively reducing their value. 1987 P w/ full steps? No value there. $30+ for grading of this coin? There's no demand for this coin. You''ll never get your money out of this even if they gave you full steps.
I know I complained about the grades n the video but in my mind I was honestly just questioning everything due to their two major mistakes of missing the type B and the mislabeled quarter. And just the overall fact that they sent back 9 boxes all at once which I had sent to them over 4 months. Then as I found some other things like the double stars and such I just got more and more frustrated. But in general it’s not the grades it’s the varieties and rushed service, overcharging, etc. the grades were I’m used to getting wrong. Lol But what’s worse. After the video I looked it up. I actually spent nearly $10,000 on grading fees in the last year. So when I get service like this…. We’ll it’s more of a disservice. And it’s what…. 4 weeks now since I first complained to them and they are STILL trying to figure it all out. 🤦🏼♂️
The 1944-S Philippines looks cleaned to me, or at least questionable. They typically come blast white. Maybe it was in a 2X2 that wasn't stapled tightly. But when you look at the high points in the reverse, they look smoothed and shiny with no luster, indicating AU at best, though it's tough to know for sure through a slab in a video.
The denomination error on the quarter slab is what the TPGs call a "mechanical error" or basically a typo. While it will be fixed, it's actually not covered under grading guarantee.
The main thing for me as far as TPGs is better liquidity for my next of kin. I don't expect them to follow my footsteps in collecting unless they desire to. Giving any next of kin a pile of raw coins and expecting them to sort through and catalog them, and try to sell them without getting ripped off, is one of my nightmares. The whole point of TPGs were to mitigate disputes on grades of sight-unseen purchases. And with coin not in-hand, even pics aren't good enough. Look at the TrueViews in this vid, they look better than the actual coins themselves! I think anyone buying these coins based on those TrueViews would be sadly disappointed with a few of them.
I do agree with 1987-P. It is incredibly common in MS66 FS. So it would have to be MS67 FS to be worthwhile. Again, the TrueView looks so much better than the coin in the video. So I looked up the cert. The TrueView for 46307400 at PCGS reveals more unrendered planchet defects and contact marks than the TrueView pic in the video, so looking at that I'd say it's MS66. Not sure if that's due to video compression or resolution. But you can see "bridging" between C1 and C2 that I think may be enough to preclude a FS designation. 1987-P is plentiful in superb gem, mainly because mint sets were harvested for the halves, which were minted ONLY for mint sets that year, and the lower denominations were made into high-grade BU rolls.
Damn dud just started getting into this and I was about to send off gold coins to them. Would you recommend NGC instead?
I haven’t used anyone else yet but I’m switching to ANACS for now. They’re cheaper and seems like they’re turn around time is much faster too. And you don’t need a membership to send in coins.
When you have a coin that has hazing or toning on it still sealed in the mint set cellophane, you can actually submit the coin for grading still sealed in the cellophane from the mint to prove that it isn't really environmental damage or artificial toning.
What gets me about that Kennedy is that the ‘87 penny came from the same set and they graded it. You can see the hazing on it as well.
@@rockysramblings In fairness to PCGS, the hazing on that Kennedy does look like environmental damage and is fairly unattractive. That's a coin that I would recommend dipping before sending it in to be graded unless you leave it in the original mint cellophane. Also, the PVC residue can be removed without damaging the coin.
They qc'd a whole order I had sealed in proof sets, anacs graded
Good video. Kind of humorous. I have submitted all my stuff to NGC over the years and never used PCGS. That being said, a lot of these I just would not have sent in. Anything with a milk spot or haze in the fields isn’t worth it. No 64 kennedy is worth sending in. No Lincoln cent is worth it. I don’t think the grading was that bad other than the blatant mislabel. The foreign coin did look cleaned to me. And there had to be some diagnostic on the IHC to tell them it was fake. Personally everything was what I’d expect to see. I don’t think you should be that upset other than a lot of them simply should have been weeded out to begin with on your part.
It’s always a learning experience. PCGS does not do all the obscure attributions. Sometimes there is machine doubling that is not recognized or acknowledged as a variety or doubled die.
I had complaints about a lot of coins because of the two very obvious mistakes they made combined with them rushing 4 months of submissions back to me all at once. So I was very skeptical to begin with. I did complaint about many to them and they did agree to review several and of the ones they reviewed they did make corrections on some. Of the ones they did not take back I intend to send them to ANACS and see how they come back. When all is said and done I’ll make a video of it.
I charged back $700 for an order, they didn't get the correct mint on one coin. Another one was over a gram under weight it wasnt weighed. They also didnt catch a multi stuck and rotated in collar close sequence. That's just the start. I left PCGS and now I am with NGC....no one has done a thing about it from PCGS, many calls, emails, etc. They have done nothing. PCGS is a joke.
4 weeks later I’m still arguing over email with them.
@@rockysramblings just give up and go to NGC. I have thought about posting my own utube video on my order.
@@brotherlos you should! I’d be interested to see. The more bad publicity they get the higher likelihood they’ll improve. They’re riding high on this reputation of being the best and they’re no longer trying. I’m gonna switch to ANACS for now just because they’re the cheapest. I’ll use them like a filter. If I get something worth a lot I might send it to PCGS or NGC for a more “reputable” holder simply to add value. As dumb as that is….
Acceptance to frustration to miffed to upset to rage🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 your voice was hilarious the way you went through all the degrees of pissed! I got a 59 quarter with the rev but I’m not seeing it on the pcgs coin app so I wonder if they dont recognize it.
I didn’t see any doubling on the stars bro😂 you thought you were gonna be rich🤣🤣🤣🤣
Got an update coming soon hopefully. Got the coins back after they accepted back several.
A type B is recognized by PCGS
That’s awesome! I’ll watch the update cause this video was hilarious😂 I’m just breaking your balls cuz I can relate a little. I just got into “collecting” and I’m like damn I got this variety and this one and that one, damn this is easy! Then the more I learned and looked at them again I’m like nah I don’t got those🤣 I’m gettin ready to send my first submission and I’m prepared to have my ass handed to me😂 I’ll send that 59 rev tho. I’ll have to look at that site tho cuz I have a 58, 59, and a 60 with the rev variety. Mines not as nice as your tho. I got 4 vouchers to burn tho🤞🏻
I’m learning from this video too. I bought 2 64 proof sets and was gonna submit those at some point but thought I’d have to pay for the full bands attribute on the dimes. I didn’t realize you don’t have to
Can I use a silver polishing cloth on my 64 Kennedy's? I have 13 that have been in a Kennedy half dollar bank for 60 years. There's a small amt of tarnish. Thank you.
I wouldn’t.
Fun video to watch, but sorry about your difficulties.
May one ask or many may ask what are the prices they charge per coin or does it change from coin to coin?
They have a set price for services. But it also varies based on the value of the coin or the age. Most the coins I sent in were around $20 to grade. But varieties and speed added cost. Modern coins are about $16 I think. ANACS is cheaper and faster.
I made a video talking about how pcgs seems to grade coins incorrectly quite often, the example I chose was a 2006 Lincoln cent that graded a 67 and another that graded 68. The 67 looked a lot better in terms of quality compared to the 68 and the value between them is pretty substantial. So all in all they should grade with machines that can pick up even the smallest surface defects and use human eye grading to set a base of what it could be?
I have have an idea swirling around in my head for grading but I need to do some research on it before I give away the idea. Could be a while but I’ll share when ready. Something that could hopefully eliminate the subjective grading.
Thanks for showing us the unboxing!
they will tell you get lost when you call, you will see lol
Yeah they basically say they’ll email but then they don’t
I was told some collectors like graded coins that are mistakes . Pay extra for pcgs mistakes .
What do you pay for bulk submissions ? Some don't seem worth the grading price .
I’ve never done a bill submission. They usually need to be all the same year or type of coin or something along those lines. It’s cheaper but I’ve never qualified. It’s more for dealers. I have to pay the normal fees. Anywhere from $17 for modern slow service to $70 for express service. Per coin. 🤯 Then you get to pay for shipping and insurance on top of it.
...and don't beat yourself up too much for their F-ups...it is NOT personal...I have been hearing these same complaints from MANY other folks that have had identical issues with PCGS for the last 3 or 4 years especially. Something is WRONG at PCGS and it is NOT the collector's fault !!!!!
On the varieties that you sent in, were they all listed with a FS number ?
No. I paid for variety attribution tho
@@rockysramblings they’ve done that too many times over the years to me. I refuse to do business with any of the services.
PCGS needs to fix their mistakes, 1) they need to pay for the shipping both ways. 2) give you the Variety Attributions for free on the Quarter for type the Type B. And what ever else they messed up.
Hell complain to the Better Buisness Burro
I had an issue with a submission and my shipping was paid for both ways.
Always soak coins in acetone for 5 minutes or so and gently rinse with distilled water. And let dry. Do not rub. That will melt slight PVC off the coin. They can call PVC damage when you can’t even see it. Silver is good. But I don’t recommend unc copper with great color being soaked.
I did two videos on cleaning coins since this video. Great results. Thanks for the info
My coin dealer loves raw coins… he’s super knowledgeable and I trust his opinion over any slab company… the best part is I dont have to pay insane grading prices for his opinion… because thats all they are is grade opinions
Wish I had someone nearby that could do that for me.
Learn grading yourself, you won't have to rely on anyone
@@AustinsCoins I’m working on it. But unfortunately people only trust the grading companies when it comes to selling.
@rockysramblings When it comes to selling absolutely. And that's because not a lot of people know how to grade. Knowing grading is important so you can cherrypick raw coins or even undergraded/ unattributed slabbed coins.
Lol the intro!
You are not alone. IMHO this grading service (and others) does an even worse job on foreign coins. I have a coin struck in Guatemala just after the death of Spanish King Carlos IIII, with the bust of Carlos IIII and text for his successor, Ferdinand VII; however the holder claims incorrectly that the bust is that of Ferdonand VII. This mistake has been made several times, as documented in Heritage Auctions records of past sales.
Similar problems with Ethiopian silver, with examples of the common type of 1/8 birr labeled as the much rarer one. -- and auction houses don't always catch these errors (especially if they can earn a higher commission by flogging a mislabeled coin).
This has convinced me to not send several off to pcgs . Unacceptable mistakes , especially for the cost. "UP TO 3 PEOPLE REVIEW EACH"..BULLSHIT !! Credibility means everything in this market.
Exactly! I call BS as well!
Hey im curious, after the time thats passed since this video how do you like NGC in comparison to PCGS? I only have three slabbed pieces, a proof 70 eagle, a ms 70 malta eagle and a ms69 Eagle from mu birth year i got as a gift so i definitely dont know much outside of what ive watched ob your channel and a couple others but i only have NGC and think i like them more except not being able to see the rims with the slab not being transparent. Im mainly a stacker but my interests in numismatics have definitely been growing and i think id like to get a good specimen of each denomination, starting with the silver halfs in at least a ms64. Do you sell any? Im on a fairly limited income since im on disability but i love coins. Im not looking for key dates but mainly just shiny with all the details. Id love to talk more sometime but im on my way out but i look forward to hearing back from you.
I don’t have a lot of experience with NGC. I haven’t used them yet but I hear good things about them.
I don’t really sell my stuff right now. I like to get collections and look for varieties and gems. So I’m still building my high quality collection but I have to admit I’ve sunk a small fortune into this hobby and I should probably start selling off some of the things I don’t care about as much but I think I’ll wait for silver to go up more before that happens…. Or at least wait until I really have to haha. I just think it would be awesome when I die that my kids realize just how insanely big my collection is and they’re set for life.
@@rockysramblings oh right on man. Yeah you've definitely got quite the collection. That's awesome. Well if you ever want to id love to add 1 of each denomination but I totally understand. I don't plan on selling my stack because I'd like to be able to leave something of value behind to my son one day since no one did it for me. Thanks for the response man. Hope you have a great week.
Last post. Sorry to ramble. PCGS’ True View Pics seem to make the coin way better looking than when in hand, no?
They do. That’s why I pay for them. My lighting in the videos isn’t ideal either. I’m still new to this.
Same here. I wish I could set up my lights to match their exact lighting to compare my coins with. Ya know?….
Also, thank you for all the info and time you provide us. It’s greatly appreciated.
@@Drodgey212 thanks for watching!
I do like the clarity of your pictures
I’ll admit the pics they take are good
Leaving the comments as I watch the video. Currently at the 1959 type B reverse and you are 1000% correct on that, they fucked up. I also think you're right about the quarter holder that says 5C instead of 25C, itll be worth more for that error in the future, probably even now. I'll edit as video goes on
64 D MS 65 is absolutely a DDO, you can see the split seraphs 100%
I'm surprised one of those kennedy proofs didnt actually come back cameo, it appeared frosty enough to me and also the 1896 morgan does appear to me to have the doubled stars, man they are straight screwing you over and just taking your money and wasting your time. I would use anacs, I believe they're cheaper also and in the future once getting all the proper attributions you could do a crossover for to have them in pcgs holder. I wont edit anymore cause I'm just gonna be flooding your notification section, unless I see another outrageous screw over and cant help myself
I’ve been thinking the same thing with ANACS. Why pay premium to get this? If I cross over to PCGS once ANACS has graded it it could make them take a closer look.
I do not understand varieties very well, but is machine doubling or in my case machine tripling not considered a variety???? I have a 2000 Sacagawea dollar that I submitted to ICG to be graded for the variety and it came back as plain MS65.... You can see the tripling plainly with no magnification... If anyone can please help... Thank you
I’m honestly confused about that as well. Try calling them and questioning it. They may have overlooked it
If it’s not a recognized variety or if it is but you didn’t pay for variety attribution they won’t label it as such
When I submitted the coin for grading l requested a double die designation
When I submitted the coin for grading I requested a designation of double die... I have since been educated about double die and machine doubling, or in my case tripling... I still have to believe that my Sacagawea dollar is worth more than a dollar.....
@@dougbarnes2538 but what I’m getting at is that if they don’t recognize that coin of having a double die for that year, they won’t designate it. What you might do is contact Variety Vista and they do a lot of research on new varieties and varieties in general. Maybe you’ve got something new and unique. If they pick it up as a DD then a lot of times down the road it will get picked up by the grading companies and ANACS will recognize anything that variety vista has listed. So that might be a start for you.
PCGS is under rating coins to protect the registry investor. I will not use them anymore.
Well I have a registry and they didn’t protect me! I guess paying them $5,000 last year wasn’t good enough 😤
#pcgs owes you brother for sure. And that Philippines? It was much better than that 64 they graded, it's clear as day. A box of mistakes. And I think you deciding on keeping that 5¢ slab error is a wonderful idea. Thank you brother 🤙
Thanks man. I have seen a lot of coins from Pcgs that look far worse than coins I’ve sent in but mine never grade anywhere near where theirs are. I was skeptical of people telling me this but I kinda believe the concept that they want to keep the top populations low in order to make them worth more. So all their high dollar guys and friends and themselves own the top populations
the flying eagle looks like it has a depression on the obverse
I have depression from how much it cost to get it rejected.
Many people are giving CAC a try and going back to ANACS. PCGS grades waaaaaay to hard, pricing too high, taking too long, and are missing attributes. They aren't the only game in town!!
I haven’t tried CAC but I can only imagine they’re pricey also. I don’t really understand why ANACS is frowned upon. I can only imagine that PCGS has done a better job as branding themselves “the best” and it has become dogma in the coin world. My personal experience with ANACS has been far superior to pcgs.
@@rockysramblings ANACS was top dog at one point, Don't really know what happened but I will try them out as well. P.S I like your 1878 image as well on your profile. Mine is an 1878 also! It appears we both have an eye for quality! Lol, keep making great content and sharing. Thanks
Honestly ANACS gets a bad rap,but they are actually doing a decent service these days!! I think PCGS is ,as you say, are either using subpar employees or they are rushing through orders and consequently resulting in inaccurate grading and poor service,!!
ANACS screws up too, just got back from them a 1964 penny slabbed as a RB dime and placed almost upside down in the holder.
I get way too many coins returned from PCGS graded Cleaned/Unc Details. I'm really trying to improve my skillls in recognizing cleaned coins but it can be so frustrating. I've examined returned coins really carefully and in some cases I'll give them the benefit of the doubt but on many coins returned as cleaned it's difficult to find anything wrong.
I didn’t pay much attention to it at first but lately I’ve gotten back a lot and I’m in the same boat as you. One I had had a couple lines in it. Not cleaned, probably scraped in a pocket along it’s life and they called it cleaned 😒
I’m so sorry for leaving so many comments. But as I go along, I see more to discuss. On 64 proof half dollar the milk spot absolutely kills it.
I for sure thought they were going to label your 1952 nickel as a quarter when I saw it. 😁
😆
Contesting those coins is only going to aggravate your disappointment.
Man, it looks like it has a carbon spot near his temple on the 1987-D Lincoln cent. That could be the reason for the grade.
I’ve learned my lesson with modern coins. Just Don’t bother lol
You should get the misprinted quarter one graded. Like case and all.
Commented to early many quarters. But the one I was referring to was the .25 with 5c on the label
I think there is a big problem with the grading companies, they have no regulations. For these companies to keep them in check. No checks and balances means corruption and influence peddling .
Unfortunately I don’t think the industry is big enough for there to be some regulation. That and the big guys are prolly politicians 😂
You definitely have a point with the wrong designation with the quarter! I mean if you can’t get the denomination of coin correct, what is the probability of getting the grade incorrect?
Honestly if it was just that one mistake I wouldn’t have lost my 💩. But between that and the type B miss, I really started to dig deeper and found all the other mistakes.
@user-hy8ug8ih3f it’s not my problem. It’s there’s. Mislabeling a coin? FFS how is that my problem? Missing a type B? Overcharging for services? Missing obvious VAMS? But yeah, must be my fault. Watch the video before you make a comment.
Dunno man, feels like first world problems man. All those amazing coins, feels pretty amazing to have such a collection? Get a job there brother, perhaps you can raise the bar for all of us
🤔
How,much did they charge for grading. I have a bunch of coins I need to get graded
It ranges. Anywhere from $17-$70. If you want attributions it’s an extra $20
Some of the coins looks like they would've benefited from an acetone wash. The environmental damage coin looked like it had cellophane residue and the 1957 proof half looked like it had waterspots.
And I'm confused about the 1952 PR67. I thought you said you were hoping for MS65 but then you got a MS67...
1959-D may be better than MS64. I think they dinged you for thinking it was an RPM. They had to look closer at it because you requested variety attribution, saw more minor flaws.
Yep they missed the Type B.
I noticed that the PCGS online submission form doesn't autofill for a 1959 Type B Washington. I had to look up the PCGS number.
1964 half.
Told you. Soak it in acetone. I use acetone on almost all silver Washington's before submitting. Heated acetone is better but very dangerous.
They definitely market graded you for the milk spot. The whole coin looks maybe 68 but that milk spot right in the #1 device on the coin will just never get you a 68.
I enjoy your videos. You shouldn't let the "haters" frustrate you too much. Their intentions may be of ill will but sometimes what they say about grades or attributions could be right. Just take it for what it is despite the source.
As far as the attributions, in doing your research do you look at the die markers to see if they match up with your coin? I think that might be the key.
I figured that’s what happened on that Kennedy with the milk spot. The grades aren’t even so much of my frustration as the obvious varieties and mislabeling. Those then in turn make me question the whole order. I do try to match up the markers on varieties. Some times I take a chance, but this order I tried to be more careful than others.
@@rockysramblings I would definitely push them on completely regrading the whole order, refunding you for the variety attributions for FB/FS, and in some way compensating you for the whole ordeal. I mean how much money have you invested into their company? Thousands and thousands of dollars obviously. You'll get it worked out man.
*Just saw the 87d. Another market grade. I think most people dip some of their uncirculated coins in either "ez est" or pure acetone or something to remove that hazing.
@@larrysanders8347 I haven’t looked up my receipts but I think I’ve spent over $5,000 in grading fees this year. 🤦🏼♂️ I’m sure they have much bigger customers but still, this is ridiculous. I’m waiting for a reply from them. Emailed them 4 days ago….. no reply.
Man that morgan 1898 o is ms 65 ++ all day all year... ...
After they charge for variety attributions, how long do they take before refunding the difference or do they apply the excess amount to future submissions? The way you’re describing your grading experiences with PCGS makes me cautious of submitting coins to them, or submitting coins for grading to any grading company right now.
Coin submissions is a more complicated process than I realized before watching your videos.
I hope that your future PCGS submissions produce better results for you or that you use NGC or ANACS.
Good luck man.
I’m switching to ANACS and seeing how it goes. So far I’m impressed with them. The variety attributions cost $20 now at PCGS and if they don’t find one they aren’t supposed to charge you the full price to begin with. They’re only supposed to charge half. This order wasn’t the first time they did that to me either. It happened 3 times before. The only reason I even found out was because on one order I saw they charged me half so I asked them about it. I’m sure it happened many times before that I didn’t catch. They seem to do it often. And they are hesitant to refund your money as well. In this recent endeavor they told me they’d refund it about 2-3 times and kept “forgetting”. They finally refunded me $81 after staying on them for 2 months. Ridiculous.
Beware PCGS
@@rockysramblingsI don’t blame you. You seem to be going down through there with them and your submissions. Better luck on future subs with ANACS man.
🍀
So PCGS has been making tons of mistakes when it comes to both the denomination on the label and the mint mark! The mint mark is something that is really serious in my opinion. I have seen them mis mark to key dates. On the morgan dollars keep in mind that it has to be a strong strike on both sides to get a ms-65. You need to have full detail in the harline and breast of the eagle. Pcgs is pretty good on the morgans for grading based on strike. However, on some coins like buffalo nickels i have seen them give as high as a ms-66 with a weak strike that has little detail on the tail and head of the buffalo.
FB, FH, FS, FBL etc aren’t varieties, they’re strike attributions. So Simone over at PCGS doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Well that’s not surprising lol.
@@rockysramblings great video. Thanks for posting
NGC and PCGS save their MS 70 for dealers. Once they reach a set number they had out MS 69s to collectors.
That phillipines coin is cleaned, can see it in this video clear as day
🤷🏼♂️
How much is a error grade from the “Experts” worth?
Depends what the coin is. Errors range greatly from what I’ve seen
The 1987 nickel has a couple of places where there is a break in one of the steps…particularly the 2nd step from the top.
👍🏻
I have run into the same with my last couple orders. I have stop my Platinum Membership. I have even questioned if I have got back the same coins that I sent in. another thing that PMO is the taking so long to grade when it seems like they give preference to some dealers.
Unfortunately my membership renewed right before I got these orders back. We will see if they improve by next year. Can you still access your registry without your membership?
question?? did you think pcgs should have treated 1964 kennedy half dollars came from your grandmas collection special because they were grandmas coins ,why? no offence i just want to know why you feel they are better?
Watch the video
I just saw this video now and I have to say that I had the same problems with PCSG. I put in a number Morgans, Franklin Proof which was perfect. The Morgans came back and was stated cleaned which they clearly weren’t. I had a perfect proof Franklin and it came back as a 64 but no mention of full bell lines which it had. There were others as well. Very fustrated.
It’s terrible working with them. Their customer service is awful as well.
The milk spot knocked it down.
I dont play the slab game, for many of the reasons shown here, so I cant say much but it was a fun informative watch thank you
I like the pics you added to the video. Very good quality. How did you take those?
I always get PCGS true view. It costs $5 for each picture. I’ll say it’s 1 thing I like about PCGS lol.
@@rockysramblings Thanks. Subscribes 4 hours ago. I love your honest commentary! Gonna Watch all your videos!
@@glanyan5462 thank you! I’m hoping I can make better Content down the road. I’m still pretty new.
The phillipine coin is definately cleaned with the dark fields around the lettering and clear in the rest of the field. Yhe wear on the shield on the reverse is not weak shrike but definite wear. Its cleaned xf.. many of your coins were accurately graded. Some of the varieties were not varieties. Like the double d. Just because you want a variety or think it is a variety doesnt mean it is.
What is with you haters? You completely ignore the obvious mistakes they made. Not labeling the type B, labeling the quarter a nickel, over charging me fees. Then look at the coins I’m questioning and saying “wow you’re an idiot” If this order has come back in the normal way they all did and with them not missing the two very obvious mistakes they made, I wouldn’t have even questioned it. Whoever was in control of order clearly either rushed it or didn’t give a damn. Major Mistakes were made which leads me to question the validity of the entire order. A lot of them are probably what they are. But after I questioned them, guess what, they’re taking back several coins. More than just the two obvious mistakes. So I’m not completely wrong, am I? And they aren’t completely right.
Your typical PCGS customer experience herein is why I do not use any grading services directly. I buy and sell graded coins but only when other people have done the work of dealing with these grading gangsters. You should be able to get them to fix and review their mistakes but PCGS does not fully warranty their work. They should be providing you a free shipping label and 1 week turnaround with corrections.
Machine doubling happens when the dies come together and either one of the dies barley rotates or the coin does. It doesn't double stamp the coin.....
Great Video. This proves that PCGS is not all they are acclaimed to be. Number one grading service out of the top 3. I agree. Is that variety attribution on the quarters type B on certain years.? I have a roll of 1955-D I am going to go thru.
Yes. It is only certain years. I believe there are three types. A,B & C. Thank you for watching!
Oh I feel your pain I am having issues with PCGS and it still continues......ugh
When I called them to complain they had over 80 people in the queue. Normally they would have about 10-20 tops. I’d say a lot of people are upset lately.
I’ve heard the graders receive half the grading money and two different graders will grade it independently and have to agree or it goes back around
First time I’ve heard that. They told me 2-3 people look at it, but if what you’re saying is true I don’t see where the incentive is to grade them or take their time. The more coins they push through will get them more $$$
I Love ANACS. Affordable, fast turn-around time, and A+ Customer Service!!
I have gotten back with trash in a couple of mine....So you're not the only one.
Damn I'm sorry thats happened to you. I think for the full steps, again I'm not 100% I can never be with PCGS, but there is a nick on the far bottom right on the front steps that 'seem' to touch more then one step. That might be why you didn't get it. The strike on the previous FS you showed as comparison also seemed to be a stronger strike. Other then that I think the steps are pretty fine.
Could be but I’ve seen pics on PCGS of FS with gashes across the steps and labeled FS. So I am under the impression that the FS is more for the strike and not so much the damage.
@@rockysramblings If thats the case then idk...lol. Trying to understanding PCGS can be confusing.
@@cheesychampion6778 yeah tell me about it lol
1) PVC residue is easy to remove yourself by soaking in acetone (not nail polish remover.). 2) There is a space on the submission form to state the variety you want attributed. You didn't state whether you provided PCGS with a CONECA or FS number. 3) The 1959 Type B does look it. The better tell aside from what you shown, is that the arrow tips die underneath the leaf. On a business strike yo can see the tips of the top 3 arrowheads. 4) 1964 Kennedy proofs are common, with a population of over 5000 in PF68 they won't award that grade to a coin with milk spots. 5) Just because a coin is in Mint cello doesn't mean it's not susceptible to environmental damage, since the packaging is not airtight. 6) The bumps on the 1987-D cent are zinc blisters, which unfortunately happen after strike. Those coins are virtually dead smooth when struck, and those bumps are from impurities on the zinc coil before they're plated with copper. Also looks to be a couple spots on the coin, which will only grow with time. 7) Full-Steps, Full-Bands, Full Bell Lines, Full Head, are all strike attributes of a coin, not varieties, and you are NOT supposed to be charged to receive the designation on the slab. I'd say on the 1987-P Jefferson, you got hosed on the FS designation. However keep in mind that 1987-P is incredibly common with FS - even 6 full steps is common, and MS66 is not a good grade. However, the TPGs are very strict with moderns, and usually things like spots or hazing are not looked at favorably.
I dunno, you seemed to have gotten enough winners in this sub to offset the "losers." And, with said "losers" it's not always easy to see what they see. I can't really see the doubling on the 1964-D Kennedy and it looks like die deterioration from the video. As to the denomination error on the label, I'm pretty sure PCGS will reholder that coin, but it is not covered under PCGS's guarantee because that is a "Mechanical Error." Overall I think you did OK< but it would be an embarrassment to complain about grades on coins with hazing or PVC residue. Those by the way could be fixed with a simple acetone soak (though you have to be careful with copper not leaving it in to long.) The 1964-D wouldn't even count for Modern because Modern is considered 1965-present. Meaning you'd have to pay a grading fee, plus the restoration fee with is 3% FMV or $10, so it's really not worth it unless you're 100% sure the coin will 66 or better. Or you can just buy a $5 can of acetone at the hardware store, and soak it in a small Pyrex bowl for a few hours, dab the spot with a cotton swab while submerged, and let it air dry. Save yourself the heartache and never send moderns with hazing or green toning.
Thanks for the feedback. PCGS did take some back and admit fault. I did fill out the form with varieties. They did overcharge me for varieties they didn’t attribute but they did give me a refund after arguing with me for 2 months. In the end they took back about 5 coins. They agreed with me on 4 of the 5. However they refused to take back several so I have to wonder if I’m right about them as well. I did clean the pvc residue and send it to ANACS and it came back without details. I think I sent the nickel to ANACS and got FS also. I need to do a follow up video to this but I haven’t finished doing everything I want before that. Stay tuned. You should check out my coin cleaning submission videos. Thanks for watching!
@@rockysramblings ANACS grades steps a bit differently than PCGS or NGC. That's why ANACS labels don't say "full" steps, they'll just denote 5 steps, 5.5 steps, or 6 steps. I occasionally buy ANACS slabs to crack out and cross, and I have to be wary of this tidbit of detail - ANACS is far more lenient with steps.
That quarter labeled 5 cents cud add to ots value and be a variety itself