Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Daenerys | Breaker of Chains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Part 4 of our series devoted to figuring out if Daenerys will go full Mad Queen in the books
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I’m still so pissed that D&D stripped away her emotional intelligence.
And her keen mind to estrategy too.
I want to thrash the TH-cam algorithm for how badly they are shortchanging you guys with recommendations. Your content is absolutely top notch for GoT / ASOIAF fans.
Thank you. I just wish the algorithm worked in some sort of understandable manner
I think if George has Danny go "Mad Queen" it won't really be her spiraling into madness. It's more likely going to be a Jaime/Kingslayer situation, where she does something out of necessity and becomes reviled for it despite having good intentions.
Adrian Wyatt I agree this is a possibility (if Dany gets the mad queen title). The other is that “a mad man sees what he sees” and what is going on in her head is veiled by mental illness(not blind anger or savagery) but we haven’t seen signs of that yet imo.
Maybe she'll accidentally light up the old wildfire chaches of her father, or Cersei's.
@@theblancmange1265 I think that it was World of Politics of Ice and Fire who suggested that Dany will accidentally set off the wildfire stash while engaging in dragon battle over King's Landing with Young Aegon. Given D&D's propensity to keep basic plot points but completely change the build up, I'm guessing that that's what'll happen. Dany will still destroy King's Landing, but it will be a horrifying and tragic accident, brought on by her father's and Cersei's actions, as well as Jaime's choice to never tell anyone about the wildfire stash.
I've got a theory that the mad queen in the books is going to be Cersei. She was too happy burning the tower of the hand and she was humiliated in front of the whole city in her walk of shame. She's hateful and revengeful and after she's been through, I wouldn't be surprised if she's planning to destroy the Faith and King's Landing.
I can definitely see Cersei being "mad queen" hell she was a bit "Mad" in the show in my opinion. Sure I know she didn't do what Daenerys did but she would definitely do it if she had a dragon or if she wanted to get back at the small folk for opposing her she would've used some wildfire. Cersei and Daenerys aren't all that different (in the show at least).
She is described to have wildfire eyes, I think that may be a hint of what she could ending doing in the books.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Ah the show! It's like being in an abusive relationship. At the beginning everything was great. However, the signs things were not what they seem were there, but we were too in love to see. Then the abuse became clear around season 5, but, we held on hoping things would get better or go back the way they used to be. Finally, we had enough and walked away, feeling we wasted eight years of our lives. It makes me feel empty inside.
@@anaiglesias9972 Yes, when I read that passage it raised a big red flag. Besides, Dumb and Dumber have swapped characters' plots before or even combined two characters in one.
Patricia wow that was so precise I just relived my past relationship again
The show was absolute garbage. Hopefully George can finish the books so we can move away from this debacle.
Books : daenerys is smart.
Show : while dany kind forgot about the iron fleet.
😐
Show Danni was turned into overconfident mad woman with no sense and too much emotion... Her EGO got the way of tactics.
Everyone got a lobotomy on the show. 😂
Butchered my main man Stannis the Mannis as well... :(
@@brianmccann666 You spelt Dany wrong
I'm the end she didnt even seem "Mad" it was randomly like she didn't know wrong from right anymore.
Just as every other character in the show, they slowly dumbed her down to an unbearable level. Problem is they dumber down her greatest asset that cannot be taken away from you or suddenly lose it - Dany’s emotional intelligence. Going ‘mad’ doesn’t mean you automatically lose your sense of self or intelligence. They turned THE Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains into a cartoon villain. For her to fall, made everyone else fall with her (except Bran and Sansa who were somehow after doing very little were suddenly elevated. I suppose the only way for a Stark to rise is when there’s no real dragons or real lions around to check them in power).
Maybe GRRM will warp her EQ into thinking that she’s saving people by freeing them from this world through fire. But over time and gradually through manipulations. I could see the red hand playing a part in warping her mind. Maybe she will start to drink shade if the evening. When an emotionally intelligent person goes bad, it tends to get into cult-like behavior. This one just so happens to have the greatest army and three dragons with it.
If she goes bad, it won’t be because she’s purposely dumbed down by hacks. GRRM has a knack for taking people’s greatest strength and turning it upside down and their journey is about finding other strengths (Jaime, Theon, Jon, Arya, Dany).
I’m ranting. Thank you for the video!!! Keep them coming through this long night.
Agree with this. They did dumb her down a lot and I hate it.
Very well said Jackie
Book Dany is much smarter than a lot of people realize she is.
And she has a keen mind for military tactics.
I don't think her arc bends towards madness... But it might bend towards cruelty... Perhaps a bit of moral greyishness...
Together with Preston, you are the only ASoIF channel worth listenting to. While I do not agree with all of your theories, they are usually very well thought through and very interesting. I just love it when I am led to see something with new eyes. Like the one that Rhaegar and Lyanna were kind of bad people, I was like "Holy s***, that is soo true, how did I never notice this?"
OneSquirrel so you like tinfoil
Go find Alt Shift X
Not shwift, just shift
@@Richard_Nickerson, all Alt Shift X does in my opinion is take credit for other people's theories by trimming them and present them with nice editing. He just puts content from Reddit and ASOIAF forums in video format for those too lazy to read.
Ideas of Ice and Fire ;)
@@cameliaberghean1300
I disagree, but I also don't care enough to list why or try to prove that wrong.
In my experience, such attempts to make a point are a waste of time anyway.
And I agree with y'all 100%.. Dany was in complete control the entire incident with Drogon..
In regards to the Rhaegar comment:
I think Rhaegar was a very good tactician in theory only, he was after all a bookish young man who later on a whim decided to take a more martial approach. As I think you (or an other commentator) has said, no one in a tourney would want to unseat the heir apparent in a joust or similar tourney setting which would have given the illusion that he was a formidable knight in practice.
Rhaegar may well have come across as a brilliant strategist and perhaps even got a reputation as such but when he had his mettle tested he just wasn’t a match for someone who wasn’t playing a game and who wasn’t just going to let him win.
In short there are Robb Starks who can go out and lead in the Van and Tywins who can lead from the back, Rhaegar might have been the latter but was convinced he was the former.
Jorah was right in this case to say Dany had a good brain for battle without having to be in the thick of it .
one thing to point out is he did not fight the tridant on horseback (what jousting prepares you for) but ended up in a duel which is a very different kind of fighting.
as for leaders, neither tywin's rear nor Robb's van is the best spot, the best is inbetween close enough to be in danger but not actually fighting (and thus not dirrect danger) and far enough away to be able to sense the flow of battle but not too far as to apear distant from the troops (soldiers are said to fight many times harder if their commander is with them, this is the main reason for captains, Majors and even colonels to lead from 'the front' (being in the line of fire but not actually fighting themselves) which is something all professional armies do.
16:56
Better yet, she said she would accept their answers tomorrow, not that she waited for them to be given on the morrow.
And when did she say the attack was to begin? 1am? That IS the next day.
So, at midnight it became the next day and *then* she accepted the declination of the sell swords, and about an hour later she attacked. She neither lied nor broke her word nor anything of the sort when it came to the sellswords.
That's brilliant! Both your analysis and Dany's military mind.
Dany: Jorah, you don't get it. I love you, but like a brother.
Jorah: Well, you _are_ a Targaryen...
hahahaha
Dany kind of forgot to forget about her enemies. Happens to all of us. Never thought of the Mhysa scene that way.
There's a big difference in being mad as in insane and being *MAD*
Two think became clear to me after watching this video:
First Daenerys is wicked smart.
Second she starting to put to much faith on prophecy and I believe that was the undoing of her brother and can be her undoing to.
Thank you so much for this videos, you guys are awesome.
Dang it. I seem to be missing the part where she's suddenly showing 100 percent faith in prophecy. Does anyone have a quote?
so far so good:)
And it is truly nice to see book Dany in akcion. Show not comper...:(
Im sory for Emila
I think going off Danys last Dance chapter she’s far more emotionally attached to Jorah than I think you’re allowing for here. I mean Dany kisses him three times before Storm, keeps waxing lyrical about him and constantly calls him her bear. As platonic bonds go that’s really going to an extreme. There’s a lot more affection from her than there is from him. I mean in Dance Dario actually complains that he doesn’t have her ear and confidence, whilst she hardly speaks to Barristan; so it turns out Jorah actually is the only man she really trusted or confided in. Irrespective of anything he did. Reading Storm you might have expected these other men to come to the fore once Jorah was gone but really Dance is about Dany becoming isolated. Which in her dream sequence comes up explicitly “alone because you sent me from your side”. That’s either Danys inner thoughts or a mage trying to manipulate Dany with her own beliefs.
I think that Dany is judged very harshly, not because she is female, but because of a common fan interpretation of her character. Abuse Survivor + Against Slavery + Badass Moments = Hoorah, Hero Grrrl!! Throw in some mysticism and now the hero is a Savior. 🤷 The thing is, Dany isn't trying to be a hero, she's trying to be a Queen, a General, a Politician. The positive things that she can bring about in route to the Iron Throne are nice, but... Not the target.
Your Dany videos are quickly becoming my favourites!
You guys do an incredibly spotless analysis. Best channel about ASOIAF in my opinion.
Thank you so much
I do love your livestreams, but these detailed analysis's of the books are what makes you two some of the best ASOIAF youtubers out there. Cant wait for part 5!
dany is too tacturn to go mad.
She is a Warg with the dragons. As the years go by, the dragons become more of her, and she becomes more like her dragons. It won't be madness. It'll be a dragon's temperament.
Dragons are mentally linked to their Targaryen human, That is why drogon always do exactly what Dany wants. It is known.
It's in the blood. I'm a vampire lore, nut. Dany's link to her dragons has always reminded me of a vampire's minion. So far I have not gotten the impression other dragon riders are as close. But I don't we've heard from other pov dragon riders. What do you think?
It is known
The Heretic we don’t get other dragon riders internal monologue but we without a doubt get hints to mental links between a dragon and their rider all through out Fire and Blood. Jaeherys and Alysanne’s dragons are deeply in love like their human counterparts. Dreamfyre freaks out when her rider is in distress. So on so forth.
A part of me thinks Dany didn’t have enough foresight to pillage the city of its wealth and destroy it (to send a more decisive message a la Harrenhall or Rains of Castemere); and that this mercy will bite her behind later. I mean the Starks gave mercy to the Boltons, and we all know about the Red Wedding. Maybe this is what GRRM meant by Dany having “to learn more.”
to be fair the red wedding was hundreds (I believe thousands) of years after the boltons were conquered
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Order of the Green Hand made it clear under Tywin's video on Machiavellianism there are several houses in Westeros' history who were beaten as #1 and now the #2 such as the Boltons, Yronwoods, Florents/Hightowers, Royces, and Freys who are bitter about being #2. Time does not heal grudges they only fester and get worse over time. As Darth Sidious said, "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." The rivals you need to pay attention to the most are not the other number ones in other places, but the number twos in your space.
Another thing you might consider ( hey, I am the historian that commented on last video, urging you to note that, Dany feeling that she was born to rule it only speaks of the fact that Westeros IS an absolutist monarchy- not that she is a brat.) is that Dany belief in prophecy just goes to show that Targaryens are Fatalists, like the old Nordic people were.
This means they feel thatDestiny has a plan for them and that they should keep going on this path, no matter what. So, if Cersei- who is not a fatalist- receives a prophecy, she does everything in her Power to cancel the Prophecy, Dany, the fatalist, listens to it attentively. The prophecy basically told her she will do great things, be happy for a while, until...people start betraying her and things go to shit. Therefore, Dany the fatalist is simply enjoying the good part of the prphecy as best as she could- the Fates already decided her Fate.
BTW, GRRm seems to buy into the fatalism approach of prophecy too, as he himself is on record speaking about how prophecies come to pass but not exactly like people had imagined...
This just makes Daenerys a follower of particular belief, not excatly crazy- but Qaith seems to be indeed in the story to make my girl paranoid.
Those of us who read the books were the most upset with D&D 4 destroying the Dragon Queen's character! When they changed the visions in the House or the Undying in S2 we should've known that D&D were nefarious!
I can understand why they left the Red Wedding vision out for those viewers who hadn't read the books, but the rest...tsk tsk
Aaaaaawwww yuuuuuussss! Been waiting for this
All the Game of thrones channels are dying a slow death and viewing figures are down. I hope we don't lose you guys, you are one of the best if not the best
The show's ending probably stopped people caring for it thhe way they used to. Views were always going to go down a bit but that fiasco turned many fans off imo.
Oh and btw, I saw another comment of yours under a post on this video and I wholeheartedly agree. Daenerys is and has always been held to much higher standards than someone as Arya or Sansa or even Jon (especially in the show).
@@oliviaalves3559 Take a look at Tyrion character, he sends bronn to kill an innocent man who takes a fancy to Shay, Tyrion rapes a slave girl in Esso on his way to Dany. All this was left out of the show, all the characters in the books are gray but for some weird reason , Dany was dumb down made to look entitled and all her faults were highlighted. Arya trys to steal a homeless mans boots and gets caught in the act she kills that man in cold blood. Jon snow burns gillys hands and threatens to burn her child alive if she doesn't go along with the baby swap, all conveniently left out of the show. D&D make me so angry
@@bethaofhouseblackwood234 exactly. Daenerys has always been painted as the "monster in the making" because of her Targaryen-ness, by show-only watchers and book readers alike. I think that if they had kept book Tyrion's arc and Littlefinger alive, the "Mad Queen" twist could've been done so masterfully and in such a tragic way that it would have worked. I don't want book Daenerys to have that fate though. I want her to succeed, whatever it may be.
I don't know if it helps traffic, but I keep bumpin, liking and sharing and talking to all of you to keep the party going....
Thank you My Lady and Knight, you made my Friday. Keep the amazing work
The sense that I once had about Dany's story arc was that she would ultimately succeed, but at the cost of losing everything. Specifically her dragons. I still largely subscribe to this. But the real difference between her and Cersei, the one who is most definitely being set up as a 'mad' queen, was that Dany would ultimately choose to surrender power. That when the time if decision comes she will choose to allow others to share what she has. This most obviously means sharing the throne with Jon, but also allowing him to have one of her dragons.
Agreed 100 percent. Her motives have been to support the greater good and it's not an act. We know it's not an act bc she's a pov character. I was waiting for her to surrender herself to Cersei in exchange for Missandei. That would have been interesting and true to her character. Shut up Tyrion, let Dany do her thing. Cersei would not kill Dany right away. We know Cersei likes torture. The gesture would have thrown Cersei off her game and she'd have to spend time figuring out how to "best" kill MoD. Thus Team Tyrion and Jon would have time to figure out how to get Dany. Meanwhile, Drogon would go ham the moment Dany was distressed.
I think that if she gets an opportunity to relinquish her power, as long as it doesn't endanger her people, she'll do it
Her recurring dreams about the house with the Red Door show that at her core, all she wants is a simple life without all the stress of ruling. She became the Empress of Meereen to save the lives of her freedmen; and she only wants to regain the Seven Kingdoms because that was Viserys' dream, and she feels that she owes him for taking care of her
I'm glad you two are doing these videos because she was my favorite character since season 1. I was heart broken by what I saw in the second half of season 8. However George did say that the end game for the main characters will be the same. I'm not saying will be burning the city on purpose or inadvertently or maybe she's burning a city because of white walkers, who knows? But I think I heard she's going to have the "tragic hero" story.
Agreed. While she's probably headed for "tragic hero" it doesn't mean she can't keep her dignity. George is amazing at writing from an empathetic perspective. If she goes downhill, we will feel for her. I think the "madness" is part of a pattern. What will it take for everyone to realize something's amiss in Westeros? If Griff, goes mad? My money is on that 3eyecrow
The real reason Dany goes crazy in the show is that Kit Harrington kept calling her Donny. Dany is a good person but there is only so much one person can endure.
Lmfao
i'm waiting for the next installment of this series with baited breath! thank you for your continued clarity and your work!🥰
Damn you just hit me with a curve ball at the end. I've never thought of her reacting to the prophecy like that..🤔
Automatic thumbs up! Now my watch begins... “so, let’s do this!”
Much appreciated
Have you guys read the 8x06 official script? Just when you think it can’t get any worse, it does. It’s much worse when described on paper. Apparently KL was covered in snow and not ash... still find it odd because KL turned into a desert in 8x04 and the fact that winter ended in Winterfell.
And then there was this moment with Daenerys during her final moments:
“For a few seconds, the conquering queen disappears and she looks like a young girl again, entranced by the beauty of the moment, AND THE OBJECT OF HER GREATEST DESIRE. The Iron Throne.”
What in the actual fuck? Isn’t her greatest desire-home? In the books, she had mentioned the house with the red door and correct me if I am wrong, but the reason Iron Throne was what she felt was her duty, right? I know there’s a difference between the books and the show but i still find it frustrating.
Can you guys please do a video on what you believed Daenerys greatest desire were in the show and how it may have been different in the books? Or may be it is just me that’s missing something and that her desire had always been the Iron Throne.
I know you guys are incredibly busy so a response to this comment will suffice. Anyway, I hope your father is recovering well. Thanks for all that you do!
I feel the sexualisation of Dany in the show led partly to her character’s decomposition. She’s breathtaking, sexy, powerful AND smart, and that’s why audiences started calling her an “entitled bitch”. They never showed Dany’s inner doubts and fragility, they made her into an all-mighty sex bomb, and people couldn’t stomach that!!! And that’s why they destroyed her in the end. Apparently, a mostly-male audience flashes a blue screen when a female character is beautiful & powerful & smart - “sHE HaS ToBe CoOkoO”!!!!
So glad to get this today! I missed not having a live chat last night. I agree that she needs to be careful about believing prophecies....her brother became completely obsessed over his!
Was there a live chat yesterday?
Unfortunately not. My father has been in the hospital and we needed last night to finish this video that we promised people would be online Monday
Hope he’s doing ok!
I think the fact that her dragons did NOT burn any of the Unsullied during the scuffle when she freed them, showed that she is pretty in tune with them already. And they can follow her wishes very accurately, as long as they want to, anyway. They seemed to get more rebellious, as they got older. I don't think her dragon taming issues had anything to do with communication problems. Just how much they trust and respect her as their mother and leader. It makes me wonder if we will see a huge change in Dany's attitude in the upcoming books. Since it is at that point in the show, while lost in the wilderness surrounded by Dothraki, that she figures out how to have full control of her grown dragons. In the show it just seems to happen but in the book we may get a deeper look into her mind with PoV chapters.
Detailed, observant, and objective as always! Great job!!! How are you guys with math, considering you're both so logical?
WICKED SMAAAHHT
This just might be the way to go through the books on a reread just to better soak in the details from each individual story. 🧤rules.
12:00
Did Rhaegar really only battle that ONE time against Robert?
Wow... why does everyone hold him in such high regard for fighting then? I know he competed in tournies, but never actually battling and then losing his first and only one? Not a person I would continue to praise as a good fighter.
loosing a battle doesn't make you a bad fighter, just not as good as your opponent and/or unlucky. its like a cricket world cup, it doesn't matter how many matches you win, if you loose the last one you don't win the cup. similarly Rhaegar obviously won most (if not all) of his mock battles (melee in tourneys) and jousts, thus making him a good fighter (as tourney settings are designed to be fair so the only difference is skill, real battles have no such restrictions and thus its more then just skill)
infact since they were fighting in a place where his rubies could get washed away its likely he lost the duel due to slipping (ie unlucky, and it was just as likely for robert to suffer a similar fate), if i remember correctly his army was winning intill he was struck down (meaning his strategy was good) and for all we know he could have won against robert in the past (very likely as both were quite avid fighters in tourneys) hence why he was willing to fight rather then let his army win 'by itself'
@@matthiuskoenig3378
When your ONLY battle is a loss and you actually died?
No one has any business saying you were a good fighter. Your ONLY evidence is that you're not.
@@matthiuskoenig3378Except he was a beloved Crown Prince and Heir with a crazy and violent father, nobody would dare go hard on him for fear of maiming their dear prince/next king and offending the Mad King, giving the illusion the he was a good fighter in the tourneys, his only real fight, for the sake of his own family and kingdom, he lost and died.
I don't think what Daenerys did in Astapor was done in an imperfect manner. It was PERFECT. And why is it considered dishonorable to lie to your enemies in order to gain an advantage. And not dishonorable for Stannis to use blood magic and a shadow baby to gain an advantage?
good points !!!
What i've always found interesting is the amount of times Dany has "rolled the dice"..
How so?
The number of times she has risked everything and it worked out for her.. crawling into a fire.. going into house of the undying.. attacking the slave masters without knowing if the Unsullied would even fight for her... etc.
@@devoleno there's quite a few examples
@@thisguy8106 Agreed , she does risk everything on many occasions
@@thisguy8106 ...as many other characters do too.
You guys make me like dany even more
I don’t think D&D have crawled out of the hole they buried themselves in at the end of Season 8 still. I can picture them surviving in a isolated cave somewhere, hiding, hoping the world will “Forget” about them, kind of how Danny “Forgot” about Eurons fleet...😒
2 complaints, you base to much on the show’s awful adaptation and seem to be looking only at Danys intent while ignoring the outcomes. Collateral damage is easy to overlook, but the more powerful she becomes the more “collateral” will be occurred. At the beginning you quoted GRR, yet I got the opposite meaning from his words. To me they implied that sometimes doing the right thing has unintended consequences.
Talking about Danaerys' "dishonourable" attack on the Yunkai'i as a legitimate ruse-de-guerre reminds me of The Reverse of the Medal. The main character, Jack Aubrey, is accused of a decietful action - hoisting the flag of a different nation on his ship, so as to be able to get closer, only putting up his actual nation's flag as he starts to attack. His friend assures all that it is a common naval tactic, and a legitimate ruse de guerre by stating it is no more a lie than "having your servant tel guests you are not at home, when in fact you are toasting crumpets in your withdrawing room and merely do not care for company" (paraphrased) I thought it was a charming verbal illustration of an acceptable lie.
Yes, it's deceit, but a certain amount of deceit is expected in warfare.
About the "incident" with drogon and the envoy, my thoughts are that in addition to what you pointed out, she was doing this as a moral statement, sort of like : "I'm warning you here in every way possible, the choice is entirely and exclusively yours now." Also, she likes playing with these scumbags. She's just orchestrating total victory in the mind as well as in the field. Or maybe i give her too much credit but she sure... nailed it ^^
She's amazing!! And those fools ruined her because they don't understand her character.
Dany isn't mad. The descriptors your enemies place on you can and are often false. As Tyrion basically says in season 8, people like a good story over the truth. Martin talks of how what you are told or assume through perspective, prophecy and destiny, all can be flawed. That doesn't mean Dany will not continue to place her judgement, for freedom, for innocents, will not become increasingly destructive and wrong. That she relies often on the fact in her mind that she is 'the dragon' and places herself apart and sees herself through one of the flawed lens Martin warns us be wary of, is more than enough to conclude that she will not just take Westeros without any majorly destructive decisions her 14 yr old self would never fathom she would. That arc is what makes her so interesting in the show. She isn't literally mad like her father. She's just wrong and become singularly focused, for many reasons not all her fault.
Hey so you asked why Daenerys goes out in the crowd regardless of the danger.
These are my thoughts:
How did Dany get her dragons? It seems odd that she already knows how to hatch them when she lits the pyre. She knew what would happen.
Why?
Dreams. Dreams and prophecies.(I think bloodraven has something to do with that but i really hope not. I dont like this "hivemind" idea)
It seems that not only her dreams come true but also her prophecies. And if you aqquire dragons and then win one victory after another... well i understand that she goes in this crowd. She thinks she is destined to rule and to save and she is literally worshiped as a god and be honest who wouldnt like that?
I don't belive she will go mad as in running around in cow skins wanting to be milked i belive she will be like Alexander the Great. A fully functinal conqueror and ruler but not exactly right in the head. Although it would be more reasonable for her to name a city efter her dragons in comparison of alexander naming a city efter his horse.
Love how all these paintings are obviously grown women but Dany is supposed to be what was it? 15? Does no one else here think GRRM is a twisted creeper or is that just me
You deserve more traffic! I like your theory videos, but the livestreams are just too long for me. Stay true!
I also don’t believe that Book Danny will suffer the madness that show Danny suffered in her final season. George is a far too good of a writer to do that he likes to layer his characters even if they are flawed and complex.
I truly believe that Danny is psychically linked to her dragons where she can pick up and control them with ease and has confidence that they know what she wants. So she did not intend to kill that slave merchant only Greyserman scare him shitless.
One must be mad to not take that money :P
Yessss give me clarity in these dark times 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 agree with everything!
This is one of my favorite series of yours.
12:04
Are you guys from the Boston area?
As someone who hears that accent and phrase in earnest on the regular, I hate when it's used as a joke.
we didn’t use it as a joke, but more of a nod to Good Will Hunting.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand
Well, believe me: living around people who actually speak that way makes one feel wicked not smaht.
As I always say... Thank you both so very much for your work.. You know I luv ya guys.. Even if I don't agree with your points I still love Thinking about them.
That being said... I still don't believe that show Danny actually went insane. Beyond that total war is proven to win (as... Messy ... As it is, historically it's been proven as the best course (even beyond midevel times, ww2, USA dropped 2 bombs, after that USA won the war and gained a eventually strong ally)... As brutal as it is... Taking out a city with overwhelming force works and also keeps them from doing anything to get back at the victors... One only faces retribution if the enemy isn't taken fully out...
Along with saying that she unconsciously realized that, one must point out that it was likely just a impulsive reaction... More of a spur of the moment thing.. Really.. Look at everything that she went through.. Show only she lost 2 of her kids, and her best friend, then everyone started turning against her (varas,tyrion, Jon,).. And she lost them trying to do "the right thing"... What she did was not that bad... She did what was right.. Suffered because of it. ... And honestly did what she had to do to take out the opponent and those to come for a few years at least... This shows that even though she was acting from just all the loss that she suffered in her life.. She did the right thing. And if Jon stark wants to complain.. Look at Brandon the breaker.. Brandon of the bloody blade, the hour of the wolf.. The North is used to total war. But he knows nothing
there was no such thing as total war intill ww1 (so no, total war didn't exist in medieval times you didn't kill civilians as there was no reason to and it was much more beneficial to keep them alive, the exception is ultimatums sometimes included that if surrender didn't happen all inside would die (in the hopes that they would rebel surrender), but that is not simply attacking and then killing all to make a point, its 'attacking and failing, followed by ultimatum followed by victory followed by carrying out ultimatum)
if Dany goes and sieges king's landing and demands a surrender or all inside would burn and no surrender takes place then it would be inline with medieval tactics to burn the whole city to the ground. if she didn't offer an ultimatum then it wouldn't and she would be seen as overaly sadistic and what not (and likely murdered later)
as for USA's bombs, the US government admitted ages ago that japan had asked to surrender 3 days before those bombs were dropped and were ignored intill after the bombs had landed (and the whole purpose of the bombs was to scare Stalin) the good relationship happend latter as a result of US economic aid to japan and japanese producing war materials for the korean war.
A comment you posted came up that your father was hospitalize. I pray that your father is doing better. 🙏
Hello, I have watched most of your videos and admire your effort in researching your theories. I only have had time to read the books once, so I know I may have missed a lot, but I was wondering if anyone thought of using the actual first birthing scene in the books to work out Jon’s lineage... the dead mother dire wolf does seem quite suggestive to me in that respect. Just an idea, and cheers.
Stefy
While I agree with every argument you guys make, a have 2 points to make:
1- Not all people in history called "the mad" where just lunatics; Some were cruel or psychopaths ,some were tyrants or just stupid. (there isn't just one type of madness)
2- I think calling Dany a Brilliant strategist is a bit too much, for while I believe that she is a quick learner, if not a natural, defeating the slaver cities in fair combat doesn't seem the greatest challenge, I mean they aren't exactly masters of War. (They didn't even consider that sellswords would flee or defect, and they bed-slave army is as good and motivated to fight as me , A.K.A not at all)
Edit: Also, about the offer to just walk away, if the city had all that money to offer Dany, surely it had much more of it guarded inside it's walls, not to mention the amazing PR stunt it its.
Thanks for clearing my name!
If Daenerys does go mad in the books, I think it will be Quaithe's doing. IE: Quaithe could drive her to madness, or to some rash action, that dooms innocent people around her. Maybe she will burn a bunch of people and a section of the city because of something Quaithe does or says. Jon will be there but not believe her story about some invisible person appearing only to her, think she's gone completely mad and kill her thinking he's saving the kingdom from a mad queen, not realizing that she was being manipulated.
Aaron Neal soooo many times better than what happened on the you know what
Yay! U made my weekend!
Damn you guys can drill a point home. Love the thoroughness of this series.
I'm absolutely LOVING this series!! Dany is my favourite character and this is reminding me how UTTERLY AWESOME she is!! :) :) Thank you!
I mean.. dahh
Jaja
I was waiting for this video!
One of my favourite Dany's scene..jajaja
She never said what would happen in the night.
I loved her so much!!!
But yes.. Dany is trusting to much in prophecys, but I dont think that she would ever turn mad, I mean it is clear that she is that kind of lider that prefers to die rather than let her people die.
I think that she is going to die, but not for some fullish thing as Dumb&Dumber tried to sell us.
I think that she is going to die for the same reason she frees slaves, for the same reason she cares about stragers, for the same reason that she made a deal with Hizdahr, because she want the best for her people no matter her unhappiness, maybe she would never have the red door, maybe she would never be happy, but if shw dies she will die because she sacrifices herself for the humanity, a tragic hero...
I think we'll find out later in the books that she is had more control over a dragon than anyone since the conquest... I can't wait to see her go to Asshai
I'd like to see her go to Asshai, but GRRM already said we'd never see Asshai in the books, although going by Quaithe's words you'd think she'd have to. The only way both statements can be right is she does it "offscreen" and we don't get to see exactly what happens to her when she's there.
@@SaneMillennial dangit I forgot that, I can see if happening off screen.... Maybe she just explains to Tyrion and ser grandsire what happened.....
Green hand never disappoints. But you should also touch up the other video series(s) you have started, Jon/Benjen, Ironborn, Littlefinger etc.
Good video, worth the wait.
About Dany's decision to attack during night:
Concerning the Stormswords:
I shall want your answer on the morrow.”
The Stormcrow captains rose in unison. “Our answer is no,” said Prendahl na Ghezn.
This one is clear - you're right that they already gave their ( final ) answer. There's no deal made.
The Second Sons:
When you say "..that both sellsword companies gave their answers right then and there.." ,I don't agree.
The Stormswords yes, the Second Sons was different:
“Think on what I’ve said tonight. Can I have your answer on the
morrow?”
“You can.” The Titan’s Bastard grinned.
........
Three toasts we’ll drink you, and bring you an answer when the sun comes up.”
So, Second Sons said "You can" vs Stormswords said "Our answer is no". That's not necessarily the same.
You noticed that yourself by saying "he waffled a little bit towards the end".
The correct interpretation here is therefore that they would give Dany their final decision by the next morning.
So the question is if Dany's decision to attack - before this timeline is off - is dishonorable. You answer this by
calling Dany's actions/ plan an (allowed) "deception" in analogy to Tywin's plan in the battle vs Robb. This is
only a good approach if you can show that both situations are in deed analogous. But you didn't show that.
Actually, the question that has to be answered is this one: Did Dany and the Second Sons agree on a cease fire
until the next morning?
From a legal point of view the problem is this: how can you tell a non-committal conversation, a "general" discussion,
some small talk from a binding agreement? Well, there is no checklist or one definite answer. You have to analyze
and interprete the whole conversation taking into account everything that might be essential to answer this question.
What is essential? Well, you need to sharpen your eyes.
An important point to see is that they didn't talk expressis verbis about a cease fire. So both of them would have to agree
silently on the fact that they were arranging a binding agreement concerning a cease fire. And both showing the will (silently)
to be bound by such agreement.
I will shorten that here, it would take too much text to outline that in detail:
We are in a situation of war. A battle can start any time. A cease fire in such situation is an important, serious thing. And
that should show with no room for misunderstanding in this situation. A "silent agreement" is just not enough in this
situation here so that in the end it has to be considered as just some small talk without any binding agreements or results
that she was required to honor.
The deception I see in the fact that she plays naive and the Second Sons would not be worried about Dany having the
"audacity" to
just attack. Therefore some small talk, like let's calm down a bit, and hiding her determination by that.
I have this one too:
"Ser Jorah Mormont scowled. “You told the sellswords-”
“-that I wanted their answers on the morrow. I made no promises about tonight.
Well, that's bs. The passage of time until the next morning includes necessarily the night. Like saying, we have a cease fire
until next morning and then saying, well, I didn't mention the night explicitly.
ps: if some people think that she did break a promise it still wouldn't mean she's insane because such behaviour may score as a symptom on some checklist.
Jaime did break an oath - which is somewhat "more" than a promise - for a greater good and got a thumbs up from the audience. So if Dany breaks
a promise or agreement for a greater good - so what?
Why does Daario look so old in the illustrations? Maybe I've simply forgotten, but he wasn't over age forty, was he? He certainly looks that way, especially in the first illustration. Yes, he's a sellsword and a battle veteran, but he's still a younger man.
Yeah, the way she handled the sell sword companies and the envoy shows her BRILLIANCE rather than foreshadowing madness, in my opinion.
Edit: I agree that Jorah certainly needed to be rained in. He may give good advice, but his clear jealousy makes it less than reliable
I did read the Dany chapters ( got the books from a friend 2 weeks ago ) so I can say
that there's nothing which determines Dany to do what we saw in the show.
There's no set-up for her to "be the butler who did it". Thus, GRRM can go with her in any direction
he wants to. From the Dany chapters alone it is therefore not predictable what will happen to her.
But there's another approach to predict her destiny. Very likely this already has been shown by a other
people, so I keep it short. The most likely outcome is that:
a) Dany will burn King's Landing and kill a lot of innocent people. But not because she's crazy or pissed.
She'll know exactly what she's doing and - surprise - it will not be evil!
b) Dany will die because GRRM wants a bitter sweet ending. And she will be the bitter part.
The last point is off-screen ( off-book ) argumentation, so it's not necessarily true. But at least she'll have
a memorial statue in that case.
I see one alternative ending, only slightly less probable, but bottom line the same: KL will burn.
I finished SOS three weeks ago and I’m just now getting to Dany IV ADWD. The only way she goes mad is if she continues to believe in prophecy. The Mummers Dragon can be interpreted as “Varys” Dragon. She may come to Westeros the way Aegon wants but have a completely Suspicious view of him.
I get so excited when I see your videos in my subscription feed
When she faced the “Speaker of Savages”, when I was reading that chapter, I literally thought: *Hey, this is another nod towards her strategic intelligence for her age! She’s a bloody prodigal master mind!*
Look, asoiaf's main theme is power, and how power corrupts. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely". While I don't think mad queen Dany was a good route to take on the show (there was no proper build up and just a while ago she was saying how she didn't want to be queen of the ashes) it's still the way the books will end because it will fit (what imo is )the message George is trying to send- even the a kind, good person can still be corrupted by power.
Here is Dan and Dave's comment for this video.
D&D: We kinda forgot to reread the GRRM's books about Dany's character
My thoughts about Daenerys are these: people don’t change, they reveal themselves as they have always been. The pretence of being a warrior for justice will fall away as she embraces her true goal, the only goal she has ever known: the Iron Throne. Everything she did before doing so was happy accident in her pursuit of that, and unfortunately she’s starting to believe her own mythology as a saviour based on the freed-slaves’ perspective of her. This, and everything else she’s convinced herself about her destiny, will be her undoing: her life will contradict her beliefs and it will be a crisis of identity that ultimately destroys Daenerys.
You know.. its interesting. Someone offered me a whole bunch of gold to leave my home. I turned it down.. its not about the money. It's about helping the people. I will not get power hungry. I know what's like.. love you all.
@the order of green hand- I was late to the party-Dany ….hmmmm..she forgot about the iron fleet- tired, D&D just wanted to end this series. Bottom line. rushed and useless.
One thing that could lead to Dany possibly snapping in the books is the over-idealized version of her family her brother told her. He claimed their father was an innocent victim of treachery by his disloyal lords and the people of Westeros prayed for the Targaryens' return. Although Dany has started to realize these stories might be exaggerated, she has not yet fully set aside this over-idealized mindset her brother placed in her since childhood. Her sanity may very well rest on if she learns the truth about her family's downfall, and how she will react when she does. If she does invade Westeros with this rose-tinted narrative still intact, she will certainly be in shock and dismay to learn her family is nowhere near as universally loved as she was told, and many of them are even glad the Targaryens are gone. This revealation could either cause her embrace the hard truth and reevaluate her beliefs, or it could cause her to snap and destroy the seven kingdoms in a vain attempt to maintain the stories she was told her whole life.
Dany stayed sane while enduring worse in essos. If she goes mad something...zzz. Will have to happen that is horrible. Like aerys being raped in the but horrible
Hey Everyone.
I think after seeing the REACTION from the Fans on how the tv series ended. The writter will change the book endings. Listening to fan expectations for the characters while writting it his way though.
If he doesn't, it would mean he is a moron. Noone liked how tge tv series ended. How the characters behaved. How events turned out.
#1 Wrap up the Westros King/Queen War before the Fight against the "The Others" happens. The Others are the real threat.
#2 War vs the Others. Make it Epic. Not Quick. Better to Bargain with them creating a new truce pact than ending their threat completely.
#3 Do not have Danni turn Crazy & insane.
#4 Kill Cersi the right way. By Tyrion's Hands or Jamie's Hands. Strangled to death as told long ago. Honestly would be best if Jamie kills her like he killed the mad king long ago.
#5 Bran. Have Bran do something big.
I think a lot of people would be fine with the ending, but wrote correctly. The show felt rushed, there were no clues and was written as shock factor, instead of having some logic.
What I read so far, I see book Bran become a king. I see book Sansa become a queen. But I think that the books have more of a 'lead up' to everything instead of rushed, inlogical writing.
@@leonievw2466 No I don't believe people were fine with the ending, most hated the fact that bran ending up being ruler of a surveillance state, a few people predicted Sansa being queen of the north, but nobody predicted bran the boring being king
the ending will be different tho, GRRM said that the fact that the show killed off characters early and never included other characters will inevitably result in larger and larger differences. key events may happen, but it will certainly be under different circumstances or simply done differently.
I like how the sell swords treated her like a "know nothing little girl\dumb whore" and she used it to her advantage. Excellent analysis. Thanks again for all your hard work.
Maybe it’s not the going mad that will happen in the book...but the being murdered by the man she loves and trusts.
I haven’t watched any got content or anything to do with the show or the books since s8 ended because I was so disgusted by it that it put me off even though I’m a huge asoiaf fan and liked the show, but have really been enjoying watching this series! Thanks for the content 😁
Hey Mary Ellen how are you getting on with your digital painting? I thought I saw a piece of yours as I was watching the video 😀
Long-time waiting for this!!!
Oh! I almost forgot, like a 12-year-old I'm compelled to write right here:
"The FIRST comment!!"
Do you think Jon will put a dagger in her heart to create "Lightbringer" to end the war with the others in the books? Also do you think book Jon Snow will be freaked out by sleeping with his aunt (if he does)?
if he is a targ (and thus sleeps with his aunt) he wouldn't as many in the stark family did just that (specifically the generation before dunk and egg did it twice)
@@matthiuskoenig3378 cool to know, I heard book Jon Snow is a bit better than show Jon like he's not as stupid and naive
I like that she takes the gold anyway in the show haha. She needs that gold.
Besides the so-called release date of August 2020 GRRM talked about recently, is there any new news regarding TWoW?
I wish