Absolutely... #1 response.... all these cancel culture Karen's can go buy Honda's or whatever. I ride my Harley with PRIDE.... oooops that's a trigger word for most now.
With a Ford truck, you are still stuck with the Ford body and frame. But there are cars that can be built from the ground up without using a single original part. The Dodge Charger ('68-'70) '67-'68 Mustang fastback, and several variations of the '55-'57 Chevy. Frames engines, transmissions, brakes, steering, suspension, complete interiors, and all the original body panels are available.
@@geraldscott4302 and those are NOT titled as what they look like, they’re “special construction” or “ assembled from parts” or “ rebuilt” titles, tje ford truck would still be a ford truck, it’s titled by the VIN.
Don't give one F*** if someone doesn't like your motorcycle. You ride it and enjoy it. Live free and it's speeding only if you get a ticket. Ride safe and drop a sign to others' ride, too.
I agree 100% on replacement parts. If the Harley part failed, I'm replacing it with an aftermarket part. I'm not paying Harley for something they should have never let out of the factory. And I have to fix it myself! For me, I don't care if it's a Paughco frame and an S&S engine, it's still a Harley to me.
I’ve been riding Harleys since the 70s and still love the brand. However, a few years ago I went back to riding a carbureted Evo and that’s where I’m staying.
Breast implants, lipo, and face lifts doesn’t change my marital status, so going S&S and installing aftermarket enhancements doesn’t matter to me…unless my identity is defined by a brand and the lemmings who champion being branded. Indie shops, i.e., Baxter’s Garage, and proven quality providers like S&S and Feuling will be the go-to guys when the OEM warranty expires! Don’t put new wine into old wine skins…
I live between two dealerships, and I work on bikes on the side. One dealership offers a law enforcement discount (10%), and the other does not. Guess who gets most of my business.
I believe it was JAN of this year. However it is up to the dealer, according to the dealer I now go to. My previous go to dealer does not. They said it was Harley now offering a “points”? System? I never checked into, just switched dealers.
They are bringing it back refocusing on Military and First Responders... Huh, who would of thought supporting our groups were a good idea to support? Maybe they shouldn't of ever stopped.
Personally, my bikes would be Frankenstein's. Parts from everyone and Harley. Whatever I deemed the best value or quality or a balance of both. They are still Harleys in my opinion.
Jeep is a highly customized vehicle that is an iconic American design originally, built with less than reliable parts that are owned, designed in or even built, other countries. They are modified with engines, suspensions and various parts that entirely change the vehicle, just like some Harleys. After that though, they still go to Jeep meets and events, and are called Jeeps. Being customized is part of what makes them a Jeep. The heritage of customization is part of the brand.
HD factory numbered frame, engine cases with flywheels and crank, heads, transmission case, and tins. If you have all of that from 20th Century Harley Davidson, then it is a Harley.
I consider my sg a harley davidson. I'm not going to harley davidson for parts or service. They've shown themselves not to stand behind their products. What did harley do about the spring tensioners on the first twin cams, nothing. Customers had to eat entire motors in some cases. Don't trust them.
You are confusing people. That is part of the problem Harley has. OEM parts are not Harley parts. It is in the name of. OTHER EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS OEMS ARE NOT HARLEY PARTS. It’s no wonder customers leave the shop scratching their head and keeping their wallet closed. And I am not against OEM parts per se. It is entirely possible for another company to improve on a Harley part. Just be honest about things and submit to empirical comparisons for the quality of the parts. The last thing. I am driving a car that has an all original engine, 200k miles, that has never been apart or had a part replaced. I had a Yamaha 650 that never had a part fail or need to be replaced. All this talk of Genuine Harley parts, OEM parts scares the shit out of me. Why would I ever want to replace a cam shaft, oil pump or even valve covers on a Harley? Hmmmm?
As far as the DOT is concerned, the VIN is the bike. Whatever the VIN says it is, that’s what it is. Doesn’t matter how many aftermarket parts are on it. The reason I bought a Harley is because of the availability of aftermarket parts.
In the 90s the aftermarket started growing as Harley became so greedy the average riders were disgusted. Companies like S&S who already made high quality parts like cams and carbs started to florish. Other names like Wisco and Andrew's were making engine parts. Delcront etc. Making parts that exceeded the quality of OEM. 3 years ago my 2006 FLH twin cam 88... which was running fine, but had the infamous cam chain tensioners reached nearly 35,000 miles. I had the shoes checked twice but couldn't live with it any longer. I barely looked at OEM parts. Ended up with S&S complete kit with cylinders, cam, oil pump and cam plate. Complete piston kit. At 100ci square. Equal bore n stroke. Head work on stock heads. A bunch of computer tuning... and I have a beast. I would have gone gear drive cam but Harley decided to put timken bearing on one side of the crank only... while my runout was very much within spec... I was shocked that they did something so cheap. A lot of people are opening the cases and having the bushing side welded and machined for the proper timken on both ends of the crank... and a gear drive cam... and a truly bullet proof twin cam. I love my old Shovelhead. And my twin cam. But I don't even look to OEM parts for anything I need. And now? I'll never set foot in a dealership again. And I dont care if anyone thinks its a Harley or not. My shovelhead hasnt had and name branding on it since the 90s.
It's funny you mentioned that cause you can see the cues on the early Indian models. They've since slowly shifted away from that as the years of production have gone on.
Good morning 🌅, GixxerFoo, I hope you are all keeping safe and well, I would rather upgrade to a better design part, at the end of the day it is still a HOG , Especially if you’ve still got the original frame! My only concern would be if you change the engine the engine number wouldn’t correspond with the chassis, But I was still upgraded, it’s my bike and I do what I like to it, from France
You make a very valid point there, I've talked about that before and making sure you thoroughly document all of that. I don't know how it is in France with that, but to police here if they look at that engine number and it doesn't correspond to the vin it can scream stolen to them.
@@GixxerFoo the other thing I quite often think about, if you have a bike and it says it’s 88 in.³, and somebody has been inside it, naughty naughty, and it’s 96, instead how does that relate to your insurance and other details on the bike?, Never had a problem back in the UK., Done virtually everything to my engine, though I must say I have actually spoken with the authorities quite often at dues, and they asked me about my engine and my bike because it was something that was very unusual, never once did I think about if they could do anything to prosecute me at all?, But like most people who ride bikes of our error, we customise them to the way we want them, And that is all the joy, fun and games we put into them working on them,
The DuoGlide I was supposed to buy Sunday got sold Saturday. The guy sent me $250 to help cover my airplane ticket. Back to my original plan. Sold my bike so it looks like I'm building from the frame up. S&S motor with a 6 speed, 6" over Springer forks, Spring seat, Jockey shift, Foot clutch, Dual over/under 5-3/4 headlamps, etc...I'm done with HD
Having used to work behind the parts counter at my local Harley dealer it was kind of amazing to see how many slightly older models (twin cams and beyond) needed a particular part and the OEM part number didn't even show up with any warehouse stock or back order date at all. Not to mention the lack of aftermarket support for older models. But God do I love my sporty!
If the numbers on the frame begin with 1HD, it's a Harley. It could have an S&S motor, a Baker right side drive 6 speed, a custom tank, swingarm, front end, fenders and seat and it will still be a Harley. Actually it will be a better Harley!
Well, I'm not going to say HD, I'm going to say "it WAS a HD!" I'm not going to wear anything HD again, and hasn't got a penny since 12/18 because they lied about the M8 engine's performance, I'll remove the labels or cover it up. Going to debadge both bikes. HD will never get anything from me Again! Everything you have said, it sounds like you are letting me talk! Aftermarket makes better parts anyway! Thanks for the voice going out there.
I love my road glide, happy to ride it as often as possible. I just don’t feel like it is necessary to stop enjoying my bike. It’s still my Harley no matter how much I do in aftermarket parts. Sorry but I just love it.
Had Hondas, BMWs,and now Harley. Never understood why Harley riders were always changing their bikes around. Now I know why. Crap seats, suspension, lights, cam, pipes, etc. If you buy a $25k Harley, be prepared to have to put 5-10 k to make it what it should have been from the start.
Key words, “the way it should’ve been in the first place”. That’s my biggest gripe with Harley, nothing is ever the way it should’ve been from the factory. It’s like they force you to buy extra stuff to get it there hoping you’ll buy from them first instead of the aftermarket. Because without upgrades, Harley doesn’t touch Indian but you’re paying the same amount of cash.
My local dealership is actually willing to use an upgraded part on warranty and charge you the difference of the original part allowing you to use the warranty and also get the better part to replace the failed part
Last week I traded my Harley Davidson for 2005 Tony Stewart Monte Carlo SS. I still have my Gilroy Indian with S@S evo engine. Love that bike. And Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 for long fun rides. I don't see myself owning another Harley. I can forgive them but I can't forget what they have done.
Even with no after market changes or upgrades some of your parts are foreign and you might not even know it. I needed a tail light bulb for my 2019 softail slim. I went to a harley davidson dealer for the part. I got extra just in case in the future as well as turn signals, front every box says " country of origin Japan" with harley davidson's name at the bottom
It's funny. My entire riding life (30+) years, I always heard buy a Harley. I've had one for a couple years now, and a lot of the HD riders complain about quality issues or defects. I guess misery loves company? I love my bike, but with the Rev Max moving overseas I'm not going to pay the HD tax if the bikes not made in America.
I have a evo softail and I will always own a evo softail. I really couldn’t care less what Harley corporate does and what direction they take. There is a zero chance I will ever step foot in a dealership in my lifetime
Really like my 2019 Harley and would also consider owning a Twin-Cam in the future but nothing new as far as Harley is concerned. As far as Indian is concerned, it will always be a Polaris to me, but I'm happy they are giving Harley a run for their money. It's great for the consumer.
I got my last Harley. It's about to get AM oil bump, and maybe a AM crank. It already has AM pistons, jugs, and lifters. It still has it's HD carb, front shocks, wheels. I'd say my HD is 80% HD. It's still an HD though. Indian is a Polaris... but.. they are an American company. So I don't have a problem with Indian, but I'm not familiar with them. HD can be saved... It's happened before. Just a few changes with people that love the brand and tradition, and it's all good.
To me... if you put in S&S engine...it's still Harley. All those custom bikes are Harley to me. Even big dog chopper is Harley. ALL those bikes and S&S engines ARE based on Harleys engine...even indian is a copy of a Harley. HARLEY Davidson is top dog...the goat of all motorcycles...and that's a fact.
I think I'm ready to switch brands when it's time to buy my next bike. I started with Japanese but I switched to Harley-Davidson 20 years ago because I liked the charm nostalgia and simplicity of a Harley-Davidson. Now that the simplicity is gone, the charm is gone, and the nostalgia is tarnished, that doesn't leave any reason for me to stay with Harley-Davidson. I'm pretty sure I'll be going back to Japanese when I get my next bike. I'm ready to get back to my roots with something simple, inexpensive, and under a 1,000cc.
I don't care about the brand. I bought a Harley Davidson because I like the look, sound, feel, and riding position. I have a 1989 FXRS Low Rider. It is eventually going to need a new engine, or a rebuild. I was on the fence about what to do, but now it would absolutely be an S&S engine. While I didn't care about the brand name to begin with, I do now, and definitely NOT in a positive way.
I bought my last new bike in 2022. My Harleys are 2018 and 2009. I will not buy another new motorcycle period. Too complicated and no one is really qualified to fix major issues. I will keep my two Harleys until I can’t ride them anymore but dual sport and middleweight adventure bikes is where my riding passion lies.
@@Dave-sw2dm I kind of feel like you do. When it comes time to get my next bike I'll probably still keep this Harley but just not ride it as much. There's two adventure/ dual sport bikes that have been catching my eye lately. One is the Kawasaki KLR 650 and the other is the Honda CB500x. I was also looking at a Triumph scrambler but I don't want the throttle by wire system that they use. The adventure bike segment is growing quickly so I'm sure there will be more offerings from different manufacturers soon.
Find yourself a 97-03 Honda Valkyrie and never look back. I work at an HD dealership and they couldn’t pry that valk from my dead cold hands. Performs better than a modern mortgage-glide and costs 1/10th as much
@@jacobwasher1894 , unfortunately I find them ugly and soulless. But if they work for you. Honda is the least appealing Japanese motorcycle brand in my eyes. I currently own a Kawasaki dual sport, a Suzuki trail bike, and a Yamaha street bike. When it comes to cruisers Harley is what I own.
Nope, the Indian is a Polaris, nothing about the Chief is original. The "Powerplus," engine is a cosmetically changed S&S engine design intended for use in Big Dog chopper before they went under. That engine was also used in the Confederate motorcycles before they rebranded as Curtiss Motors. That basic engine design that was already EPA approved was combined with new cases and the drivetrain from the Victory Freedom engine. I'm not saying the Chief is a bad bike, it's just not anything original.
If you own a Harley from the AMF era its a AMF Harley. If you have a S×S motor in a Harley its an S+S Harley. If you own a Indian its a Hardly Davidson....
If it has a Harley Davidson designation and serial number, it’s a Harley Davidson. I’m not ready to write off Harley just yet. I’m interested to see what they do to right the ship.
Now I would DEFINITELY consider buying a bike branded S&S or Fueling! If Buell can build a bike “as it should have been built”, why can’t one of these other trusted brands partner with private equity and take advantage of this HD-dumpster-fire opportunity ? Wouldn’t there be a surplus of HD dealers and mechanics to consider that opportunity?
I purchased a new 2021 Electra Glide standard in April of that year as my previous bikes were all used. The reason I went with a new Harley is all about tradition within my family and the community I grew up in. The learning curve of what Harley really is was a steep incline. I've installed many aftermarket parts in an effort to avoid being stranded. I consider it is a Harley. I appreciate Gix mentioning aftermarket engine builder S&S building engines as Harley should have built them precise high quality performance delivering machines. On a previous post on a different subject I may have forgot to mention shit canning Harley suspension components for aftermarket JRI adjustable rear shocks in nitrogen charged fork cartridges. I replaced on my '21 FLHT Standard stock handlebars with Khrome Werks 10" bagger bobber ape hangers. I'll vent the crankcase to complete the plethora of aftermarket pre-breakdown modifications. Harley's been disrespecting the heritage and its customers for quite some time prior to Jaime and His Muppet minion bored members installation.
I love my Streetglide. I’m very proud of it . Cause of the work and pride I put into changing all the Harley OEM parts with much better aftermarket parts . I will never give one red cent to Harley ever again and havnt for a while . If it comes to having to then I’ll get an Indian for much cheaper. In the early 1900s Harley sued Indian left and right for copyright. It’s Damn near a Harley clone
In about 2003 Indian had an engine that was not Harley in fact you showed a picture of one of those engines in your video. During the Myrtle Beach bike week Indian had some bikes they were letting people test drive. The jugs were round and the engines sounded great. I don’t know what happened to them but I’m curious to find out.
I've bought 2 BMW's to replace the 1 HD I let go of in June of 2024, when I was disgusted with HD service at 6 different dealerships, and then the guys in the group I rode with were all telling me past 3 or 4 years of woes with HD service since 2020 and Covid, that my own experiences confirmed. Fork seal rebuild, changing out a rear shock on a Softail and screwing up the belt tension on it, on a Friday before Memorial day weekend rides. Crappy 3 hole design for engine oil, primary chain and gearbox, all needing separate draining intervals, and technically, different fluids. Archaic and extremely time consuming, as well as a PIA to get at the drain plugs, the bike is so close to the ground. My R1250 BMW's? Cake walk, one drain plug, one oil filter, engine, clutch and transmission all in one fillup, one type of oil, 5w-40 SN JASO MA2 spec, 4 liters and done. Huge savings of time, and due every 6,000 miles, not 5000 like HD. 1252ccs, 136 HP, 105 ft lbs of torque, quick shifter rev matching, lighter, driveshaft, not a belt, water cooled heads, and it sounds fantastic with stock exhaust system. Great lighting, front and rear, with easily installed and available after market lights like Clearwater or Denali, for additional visibility.
I don’t know if you’re into firearms or not, but there are a plethora of companies that manufacture 1911s. No one considers them to be Colts. Same with the “Peace Maker”. So no. I do not consider them Harley’s.
I’ve honestly, seriously thought, dreamed about, since I’m now disabled & broke, but I would really like to replace the 103 in my 07 StreetGlide. I’ve been through with giving hardly any money for a few years now. If I had the big bucks I’d really like to have the S&S 141😆lol, but definitely don’t foresee having the funds to do that unless something like a miracle happens & I’m not saying that’s not possible but, probably, I kinda doubt it & since I doubt it many of us know what that means. No faith, No miracle. Oh well. I got real tired of feeding the local hardly stealerships bank accounts several years ago & stopped. I’m Not surprised what has transpired. The big wigs only used the people to build their “own” Empires, not ours.
OEM parts aren't an option when my bike is 34 years old with a 27 year old engine. I have an S&S belt, pushrods and breather gear, a drag specialties clutch cable, baker drivetrain shift cam and forks, etc.
For any other type of vehicle out there, using a "replacement part" to repair something has never suddenly just upended it's identity. Same seems to even go for folks who LS swap.... damn near anything on four wheels -its still technically that grocery-getter station wagon "sleeper" that came with a 4-pot -now with an LS 350 in it. And we all go "how cool is that Vega" -except for maybe a purist who would rather have 'preserved' that Vega? Preservation is subjective to a lot of people. Not really the case for repairing/modifying/upgrading Harley's. Most will easily identify one instantly as an HD -even with a tricked out S&S and a bunch of skulls painted everywhere -there is never any confusing that sound or look. 😁
My latest rebuild of my 09 Ultra has Trax drive train, S&S cam plate, oil pump, cams, adjustable push rods, lifters, valve springs, pistons, jugs, man o war compensator, machine performance wheels, Barnett Scorpion clutch, etc. In my eyes it’s still a Harley Davidson.
A Harley is a Harley no matter what you put on it! The title still says it’s a Harley. Personally I won’t give up on the Harley Davidson company. I certainly can’t afford a new one, but I own 2 and keep them in pristine condition. CEO’s come and go, eventually it will come to that. I don’t want to destroy a business that employs American workers!!
I own a Harley and won’t give them another dime. There’s too many aftermarket parts, but I took a job at INDIAN motorcycles of Ocala Fl. Five months ago and have learned the products and road every bike there. I can honestly say Harley it’s way behind the eight ball on technology and price. These bikes have a craft load of technology craftsmanship and attention to detail. It’s like comparing a Cadillac to a compact Chevrolet.
Although S&S is a superior motor than Harley, I've always tried to keep my bikes' original motors running. Even if every part in them is aftermarket. Bikes, particularly the older bikes, just have a higher resale value if they retain the original motors. Thanks for another great video. You make us think!
Mate, if the frame number is a HD number or the engine number is HD, then it's a Harley. I had a SE valve spring go in my M8 LR (Stage 3, all genuine SE/HD parts) only just after 9K miles. When the dealer called me for my approval to do the repair work, I told them to stick the new replacement piece of crap SE valve spring up their arse and to install an S&S valve spring instead.
It’s kinda like old fashioned V8 crate engines. You buy a 350 engine from Jasper it’s still a Chevy engine design. Or a Edelbrock crate engine…it’s still a Chevy 350. And it applies both ways. If you buy an engine from blueprint engine company that’s a Ford design…it’s a Ford. I look at SS the same way. The design is clearly HD…they just improved it. But the basic fundamentals are there and those basic fundamentals were created by the original designers
Never been embarrassed to ride a Harley. And yeah dude - as long as the heart and soul are there - it’s a Harley. Your vid’s are always great - this one feels like a stretch. This is a lesser argument of the axe theory. If you have your grandpas axe and you have to replace the handle, okay. Eventually you have to replace the blade. At what point isn’t it you grandpas axe anymore? To me - it’s more about feel - both physical and peripheral. HD isn’t perfect - but they also don’t deserve all these digs. They’re not overrated - but they are over-hated.
Alright - I got heated before I watched the rest of the vid. I suck. I don’t know man - I think I agree with you. And damn - I always called it a Polaris - but you’ve convinced me - I’ll call it a Pindian from now on. This video stung man…..
I went with a bunch of aftermarket parts and a tuner even though I have a few months on my warranty yet. Got the Wood 22XE and supporting parts. I honestly think folks that spend the time and money to open stuff up and put Harley parts right back in there are wasting money. But it’s your money. Leaving so much money on the table. And I don’t think it will be long until EPA starts really going at the aftermarket/3rd party also. But yeah wait until your warranty is up and do it right else just eat the warranty, get what you want, and enjoy it. Putting HD/SE stuff back in is just a waste.
If the frame and drivetrain are aftermarket its not a Harley. A Harley with a replacement engine i say can still be called a Harley. If you build it put your name on it.
Harley has an attitude against S&S . if they didn't S&S could supply engine and Harley would take off but oh no Harley would rather sell crap. I call my Road King , my bike because Harley kicked me to the curb.
Yes, Harley is currently screwed up but I’m still proud to ride my old wide glide with Evo motor. I don’t feel shame at all.
Well you should. You probably have a fridge full of bud light too 😂
Absolutely... #1 response.... all these cancel culture Karen's can go buy Honda's or whatever. I ride my Harley with PRIDE.... oooops that's a trigger word for most now.
@@Deertracks123 Calm down the EVO is pre-Zeitz.
EVO’s forever!
@@geo.037ride with gay pride 😂
To me, if it's a Harley motor and chassis/frame, it's a Harley no matter how many aftermarket parts are on it.
If you put a corvette motor in your Ford truck, it’s still a Ford Truck, not a Corvette.
U sure about that?
Fucken A Rights
@@georgewetzel4380 It might turn it into a Ram.
With a Ford truck, you are still stuck with the Ford body and frame. But there are cars that can be built from the ground up without using a single original part. The Dodge Charger ('68-'70) '67-'68 Mustang fastback, and several variations of the '55-'57 Chevy. Frames engines, transmissions, brakes, steering, suspension, complete interiors, and all the original body panels are available.
@@geraldscott4302 and those are NOT titled as what they look like, they’re “special construction” or “ assembled from parts” or “ rebuilt” titles, tje ford truck would still be a ford truck, it’s titled by the VIN.
It's not a Harley-Davidson anymore. It's MINE.
Especially what I paid for mine.
@@joojr2779 Very true
Wise words
They lost me when it was over$20k for a bike. You buy a motorcycle for cheaper transport, not for status.
Don't give one F*** if someone doesn't like your motorcycle. You ride it and enjoy it. Live free and it's speeding only if you get a ticket. Ride safe and drop a sign to others' ride, too.
I agree 100% on replacement parts. If the Harley part failed, I'm replacing it with an aftermarket part. I'm not paying Harley for something they should have never let out of the factory. And I have to fix it myself! For me, I don't care if it's a Paughco frame and an S&S engine, it's still a Harley to me.
I’ve been riding Harleys since the 70s and still love the brand. However, a few years ago I went back to riding a carbureted Evo and that’s where I’m staying.
I pulled the M-M fuel injection from my '97 FLHPi and replaced it with a rejetted stock carb.
Breast implants, lipo, and face lifts doesn’t change my marital status, so going S&S and installing aftermarket enhancements doesn’t matter to me…unless my identity is defined by a brand and the lemmings who champion being branded. Indie shops, i.e., Baxter’s Garage, and proven quality providers like S&S and Feuling will be the go-to guys when the OEM warranty expires! Don’t put new wine into old wine skins…
Harley lost me when they stopped the military discount.
I live between two dealerships, and I work on bikes on the side. One dealership offers a law enforcement discount (10%), and the other does not. Guess who gets most of my business.
When? No military discount?
I believe it was JAN of this year. However it is up to the dealer, according to the dealer I now go to. My previous go to dealer does not. They said it was Harley now offering a “points”? System? I never checked into, just switched dealers.
Good bye Harley hello Indian 😢
They are bringing it back refocusing on Military and First Responders... Huh, who would of thought supporting our groups were a good idea to support? Maybe they shouldn't of ever stopped.
Personally, my bikes would be Frankenstein's. Parts from everyone and Harley. Whatever I deemed the best value or quality or a balance of both. They are still Harleys in my opinion.
Does that number by the neck read "1HD"? If so, I'd say it's a Harley. People LS swap Fords all the time and still call it a Mustang Foxbody.
I absolutely believe in using the best quality to price point and that's generally not Harley-Davidson OEM parts.
Jeep is a highly customized vehicle that is an iconic American design originally, built with less than reliable parts that are owned, designed in or even built, other countries. They are modified with engines, suspensions and various parts that entirely change the vehicle, just like some Harleys. After that though, they still go to Jeep meets and events, and are called Jeeps. Being customized is part of what makes them a Jeep. The heritage of customization is part of the brand.
You nailed it.
Prior to the AMC ownership, Jeeps use a variety of GM engines, mostly Buick V6 & V8s, and transmissions, mostly the TH-400.
I think if Gilroy hadn’t done the revival of Indian. Polaris would never have picked it up
I always upgrade any part I replace,
Even in my autos!!!
It’s a 100% upgraded part in my evo softail.
My local shop think highly of s&s. If were to keep my harley thats way id go.
I've said for a long time S&S is the level of quality Harley-Davidson should be from the factory.
HD factory numbered frame, engine cases with flywheels and crank, heads, transmission case, and tins. If you have all of that from 20th Century Harley Davidson, then it is a Harley.
Harley needs to have S & S build all they're engines.
I consider my sg a harley davidson. I'm not going to harley davidson for parts or service. They've shown themselves not to stand behind their products. What did harley do about the spring tensioners on the first twin cams, nothing. Customers had to eat entire motors in some cases. Don't trust them.
You are confusing people. That is part of the problem Harley has.
OEM parts are not Harley parts. It is in the name of. OTHER EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS OEMS ARE NOT HARLEY PARTS.
It’s no wonder customers leave the shop scratching their head and keeping their wallet closed.
And I am not against OEM parts per se. It is entirely possible for another company to improve on a Harley part. Just be honest about things and submit to empirical comparisons for the quality of the parts.
The last thing. I am driving a car that has an all original engine, 200k miles, that has never been apart or had a part replaced. I had a Yamaha 650 that never had a part fail or need to be replaced. All this talk of Genuine Harley parts, OEM parts scares the shit out of me. Why would I ever want to replace a cam shaft, oil pump or even valve covers on a Harley? Hmmmm?
As far as the DOT is concerned, the VIN is the bike. Whatever the VIN says it is, that’s what it is. Doesn’t matter how many aftermarket parts are on it. The reason I bought a Harley is because of the availability of aftermarket parts.
It's still a Harley. Keep it in the wind.
I've been considering a S&S engine swap for my Harley. That way I can keep the bike that I've spent years and money "making it mine".
In the 90s the aftermarket started growing as Harley became so greedy the average riders were disgusted. Companies like S&S who already made high quality parts like cams and carbs started to florish.
Other names like Wisco and Andrew's were making engine parts. Delcront etc. Making parts that exceeded the quality of OEM.
3 years ago my 2006 FLH twin cam 88... which was running fine, but had the infamous cam chain tensioners reached nearly 35,000 miles. I had the shoes checked twice but couldn't live with it any longer. I barely looked at OEM parts. Ended up with S&S complete kit with cylinders, cam, oil pump and cam plate. Complete piston kit. At 100ci square. Equal bore n stroke. Head work on stock heads. A bunch of computer tuning... and I have a beast. I would have gone gear drive cam but Harley decided to put timken bearing on one side of the crank only... while my runout was very much within spec... I was shocked that they did something so cheap.
A lot of people are opening the cases and having the bushing side welded and machined for the proper timken on both ends of the crank... and a gear drive cam... and a truly bullet proof twin cam.
I love my old Shovelhead. And my twin cam. But I don't even look to OEM parts for anything I need.
And now? I'll never set foot in a dealership again.
And I dont care if anyone thinks its a Harley or not.
My shovelhead hasnt had and name branding on it since the 90s.
Indian (Polaris/Victory) stared with leftover Victory parts so to me it's a Victory design most by Arlen Ness
What parts? My friend has one, and I don't see it.
It's funny you mentioned that cause you can see the cues on the early Indian models. They've since slowly shifted away from that as the years of production have gone on.
Good morning 🌅, GixxerFoo, I hope you are all keeping safe and well, I would rather upgrade to a better design part, at the end of the day it is still a HOG , Especially if you’ve still got the original frame! My only concern would be if you change the engine the engine number wouldn’t correspond with the chassis, But I was still upgraded, it’s my bike and I do what I like to it, from France
You make a very valid point there, I've talked about that before and making sure you thoroughly document all of that. I don't know how it is in France with that, but to police here if they look at that engine number and it doesn't correspond to the vin it can scream stolen to them.
@@GixxerFoo the other thing I quite often think about, if you have a bike and it says it’s 88 in.³, and somebody has been inside it, naughty naughty, and it’s 96, instead how does that relate to your insurance and other details on the bike?, Never had a problem back in the UK., Done virtually everything to my engine, though I must say I have actually spoken with the authorities quite often at dues, and they asked me about my engine and my bike because it was something that was very unusual, never once did I think about if they could do anything to prosecute me at all?, But like most people who ride bikes of our error, we customise them to the way we want them, And that is all the joy, fun and games we put into them working on them,
The DuoGlide I was supposed to buy Sunday got sold Saturday. The guy sent me $250 to help cover my airplane ticket. Back to my original plan. Sold my bike so it looks like I'm building from the frame up. S&S motor with a 6 speed, 6" over Springer forks, Spring seat, Jockey shift, Foot clutch, Dual over/under 5-3/4 headlamps, etc...I'm done with HD
A chopper heck yes! 😊
Fine. Just don't call it a 'Harley'. Like trying to call a T-bucket a 'Ford'.
@@Lurch-Bot I'll call it whatever I like....when you put up the money, we'll call it what you want...
Having used to work behind the parts counter at my local Harley dealer it was kind of amazing to see how many slightly older models (twin cams and beyond) needed a particular part and the OEM part number didn't even show up with any warehouse stock or back order date at all. Not to mention the lack of aftermarket support for older models.
But God do I love my sporty!
Nothing wrong using non Harley parts, the aftermarket drives quality. However, there is a lot of junk out there, too. 👍🇺🇸
That's no joke, I am not brave enough to trust some Amazon or Ebay pistons from China.
@GixxerFoo
Right...would you trust your engine refresh with $49 Lifters and clone Andrews cam for $ 75? 😂
If the numbers on the frame begin with 1HD, it's a Harley. It could have an S&S motor, a Baker right side drive 6 speed, a custom tank, swingarm, front end, fenders and seat and it will still be a Harley. Actually it will be a better Harley!
Genuine Kawasaki for me all day every day. It runs great off the showroom floor with out the need to stage 1-4 updates. 😁😇👍🏼
Well, I'm not going to say HD,
I'm going to say "it WAS a HD!"
I'm not going to wear anything HD again, and hasn't got a penny since 12/18 because they lied about the M8 engine's performance,
I'll remove the labels or cover it up. Going to debadge both bikes.
HD will never get anything from me Again!
Everything you have said, it sounds like you are letting me talk!
Aftermarket makes better parts anyway!
Thanks for the voice going out there.
I love my road glide, happy to ride it as often as possible. I just don’t feel like it is necessary to stop enjoying my bike. It’s still my Harley no matter how much I do in aftermarket parts. Sorry but I just love it.
Anything built after 1999 is a caricature of what was once great.
Had Hondas, BMWs,and now Harley. Never understood why Harley riders were always changing their bikes around. Now I know why. Crap seats, suspension, lights, cam, pipes, etc.
If you buy a $25k Harley, be prepared to have to put 5-10 k to make it what it should have been from the start.
@PeterAngles-jq7gryeah I guess that’s why they’ve been around so long. You sound like a jealous communist liberal twat.
Key words, “the way it should’ve been in the first place”. That’s my biggest gripe with Harley, nothing is ever the way it should’ve been from the factory. It’s like they force you to buy extra stuff to get it there hoping you’ll buy from them first instead of the aftermarket. Because without upgrades, Harley doesn’t touch Indian but you’re paying the same amount of cash.
Commenting for support!
Keep em comin' foo.
Appreciate that always!!
Harley-Davidson took it’s last breath years ago when the final EVO rolled off the line.
People were saying the same thing about Shovel ….!
Every Generation has their favorite!
@@dmitrykhramov1832 Love the Shovels, they were my first intro to H-D.
Nope, my twin cam does just fine.
My local dealership is actually willing to use an upgraded part on warranty and charge you the difference of the original part allowing you to use the warranty and also get the better part to replace the failed part
Last week I traded my Harley Davidson for 2005 Tony Stewart Monte Carlo SS. I still have my Gilroy Indian with S@S evo engine. Love that bike. And Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 for long fun rides. I don't see myself owning another Harley. I can forgive them but I can't forget what they have done.
I think that's where a lot of people are at right now
It’s a “Harley After Davidson” a HAD Hog!!!!
Even with no after market changes or upgrades some of your parts are foreign and you might not even know it. I needed a tail light bulb for my 2019 softail slim. I went to a harley davidson dealer for the part. I got extra just in case in the future as well as turn signals, front every box says " country of origin Japan" with harley davidson's name at the bottom
It's funny. My entire riding life (30+) years, I always heard buy a Harley. I've had one for a couple years now, and a lot of the HD riders complain about quality issues or defects. I guess misery loves company? I love my bike, but with the Rev Max moving overseas I'm not going to pay the HD tax if the bikes not made in America.
I have a evo softail and I will always own a evo softail. I really couldn’t care less what Harley corporate does and what direction they take. There is a zero chance I will ever step foot in a dealership in my lifetime
I’ll keep my 2003 FXDL until life leaves my body.
Vin number also considers it a herley
If HD made condoms and they kept on failing, would you keep going back for more of the same or consider an upgrade made elsewhere?
Really like my 2019 Harley and would also consider owning a Twin-Cam in the future but nothing new as far as Harley is concerned.
As far as Indian is concerned, it will always be a Polaris to me, but I'm happy they are giving Harley a run for their money. It's great for the consumer.
I got my last Harley. It's about to get AM oil bump, and maybe a AM crank. It already has AM pistons, jugs, and lifters. It still has it's HD carb, front shocks, wheels. I'd say my HD is 80% HD. It's still an HD though. Indian is a Polaris... but.. they are an American company. So I don't have a problem with Indian, but I'm not familiar with them. HD can be saved... It's happened before. Just a few changes with people that love the brand and tradition, and it's all good.
Loved my old softail .....
To me... if you put in S&S engine...it's still Harley. All those custom bikes are Harley to me. Even big dog chopper is Harley. ALL those bikes and S&S engines ARE based on Harleys engine...even indian is a copy of a Harley.
HARLEY Davidson is top dog...the goat of all motorcycles...and that's a fact.
Harley-Davidson is the basis for what every manufacturer has copied to make their cruisers.
I agree with you 100% if the engine in my 2017 Street glide goes bad it's going to get an s&s motor.
KEEP the BOYCOTT GOING! FHD! ✊️
It's will always have a Harley Title.. I'll always love my pre craziness 09 RoadKing.
I think I'm ready to switch brands when it's time to buy my next bike. I started with Japanese but I switched to Harley-Davidson 20 years ago because I liked the charm nostalgia and simplicity of a Harley-Davidson. Now that the simplicity is gone, the charm is gone, and the nostalgia is tarnished, that doesn't leave any reason for me to stay with Harley-Davidson. I'm pretty sure I'll be going back to Japanese when I get my next bike. I'm ready to get back to my roots with something simple, inexpensive, and under a 1,000cc.
I don't care about the brand. I bought a Harley Davidson because I like the look, sound, feel, and riding position. I have a 1989 FXRS Low Rider. It is eventually going to need a new engine, or a rebuild. I was on the fence about what to do, but now it would absolutely be an S&S engine. While I didn't care about the brand name to begin with, I do now, and definitely NOT in a positive way.
I bought my last new bike in 2022. My Harleys are 2018 and 2009. I will not buy another new motorcycle period. Too complicated and no one is really qualified to fix major issues. I will keep my two Harleys until I can’t ride them anymore but dual sport and middleweight adventure bikes is where my riding passion lies.
@@Dave-sw2dm I kind of feel like you do. When it comes time to get my next bike I'll probably still keep this Harley but just not ride it as much. There's two adventure/ dual sport bikes that have been catching my eye lately. One is the Kawasaki KLR 650 and the other is the Honda CB500x. I was also looking at a Triumph scrambler but I don't want the throttle by wire system that they use.
The adventure bike segment is growing quickly so I'm sure there will be more offerings from different manufacturers soon.
Find yourself a 97-03 Honda Valkyrie and never look back. I work at an HD dealership and they couldn’t pry that valk from my dead cold hands. Performs better than a modern mortgage-glide and costs 1/10th as much
@@jacobwasher1894 , unfortunately I find them ugly and soulless. But if they work for you. Honda is the least appealing Japanese motorcycle brand in my eyes. I currently own a Kawasaki dual sport, a Suzuki trail bike, and a Yamaha street bike. When it comes to cruisers Harley is what I own.
Nope, the Indian is a Polaris, nothing about the Chief is original. The "Powerplus," engine is a cosmetically changed S&S engine design intended for use in Big Dog chopper before they went under. That engine was also used in the Confederate motorcycles before they rebranded as Curtiss Motors. That basic engine design that was already EPA approved was combined with new cases and the drivetrain from the Victory Freedom engine. I'm not saying the Chief is a bad bike, it's just not anything original.
If you own a Harley from the AMF era its a AMF Harley.
If you have a S×S motor in a Harley its an S+S Harley.
If you own a Indian its a Hardly Davidson....
My trike has Jim's USA, S&S, Traxx, Legend, Ohlins, Mustang, LA Chopper, Fueling ... and I'm sure a few others I'm forgetting.
If it has a Harley Davidson designation and serial number, it’s a Harley Davidson.
I’m not ready to write off Harley just yet. I’m interested to see what they do to right the ship.
Time for S+S to build a complete bike?
Now I would DEFINITELY consider buying a bike branded S&S or Fueling! If Buell can build a bike “as it should have been built”, why can’t one of these other trusted brands partner with private equity and take advantage of this HD-dumpster-fire opportunity ? Wouldn’t there be a surplus of HD dealers and mechanics to consider that opportunity?
I purchased a new 2021 Electra Glide standard in April of that year as my previous bikes were all used. The reason I went with a new Harley is all about tradition within my family and the community I grew up in. The learning curve of what Harley really is was a steep incline. I've installed many aftermarket parts in an effort to avoid being stranded. I consider it is a Harley. I appreciate Gix mentioning aftermarket engine builder S&S building engines as Harley should have built them precise high quality performance delivering machines.
On a previous post on a different subject I may have forgot to mention shit canning Harley suspension components for aftermarket JRI adjustable rear shocks in nitrogen charged fork cartridges. I replaced on my '21 FLHT Standard stock handlebars with Khrome Werks 10" bagger bobber ape hangers. I'll vent the crankcase to complete the plethora of aftermarket pre-breakdown modifications. Harley's been disrespecting the heritage and its customers for quite some time prior to Jaime and His Muppet minion bored members installation.
Screw'em
I love those S&S Indians.
I love my Streetglide. I’m very proud of it . Cause of the work and pride I put into changing all the Harley OEM parts with much better aftermarket parts .
I will never give one red cent to Harley ever again and havnt for a while . If it comes to having to then I’ll get an Indian for much cheaper.
In the early 1900s Harley sued Indian left and right for copyright. It’s Damn near a Harley clone
In about 2003 Indian had an engine that was not Harley in fact you showed a picture of one of those engines in your video. During the Myrtle Beach bike week Indian had some bikes they were letting people test drive. The jugs were round and the engines sounded great. I don’t know what happened to them but I’m curious to find out.
Of course it’s still a Harley-Davidson!! Mine is no exception even though it’s got a fair number of aftermarket parts on it.
This used to be a free country. What happened?
Just cus you own a Harley doesn't make you holier than thou.
If it's titled as a Harley, it is a customized Harley...if I put a small block chevy in a '32 ford, it's still a '32 ford...
Boom! Hit the nail on the head. I’d consider it a performance Harley.
Its what ya gotta call it in order to please whatever state to get it licensed.
Great video as always...
Big thumbs up for the channel...
I've bought 2 BMW's to replace the 1 HD I let go of in June of 2024, when I was disgusted with HD service at 6 different dealerships, and then the guys in the group I rode with were all telling me past 3 or 4 years of woes with HD service since 2020 and Covid, that my own experiences confirmed. Fork seal rebuild, changing out a rear shock on a Softail and screwing up the belt tension on it, on a Friday before Memorial day weekend rides. Crappy 3 hole design for engine oil, primary chain and gearbox, all needing separate draining intervals, and technically, different fluids. Archaic and extremely time consuming, as well as a PIA to get at the drain plugs, the bike is so close to the ground. My R1250 BMW's? Cake walk, one drain plug, one oil filter, engine, clutch and transmission all in one fillup, one type of oil, 5w-40 SN JASO MA2 spec, 4 liters and done. Huge savings of time, and due every 6,000 miles, not 5000 like HD. 1252ccs, 136 HP, 105 ft lbs of torque, quick shifter rev matching, lighter, driveshaft, not a belt, water cooled heads, and it sounds fantastic with stock exhaust system. Great lighting, front and rear, with easily installed and available after market lights like Clearwater or Denali, for additional visibility.
I don’t know if you’re into firearms or not, but there are a plethora of companies that manufacture 1911s. No one considers them to be Colts. Same with the “Peace Maker”. So no. I do not consider them Harley’s.
I've seen that, a lot of clones of those models out there.
Good video my 2002 road king Put all feeling parts in the right side
I just bought a new belt for my King. I heard that this item couldn’t get better than stock…
Harley frame S&S engine Baker trans costom wheels. It's a HOG =
Harley
Original
Gangster
According to Apple, rebranding makes it a counterfeit Harley.
I’ve honestly, seriously thought, dreamed about, since I’m now disabled & broke, but I would really like to replace the 103 in my 07 StreetGlide. I’ve been through with giving hardly any money for a few years now. If I had the big bucks I’d really like to have the S&S 141😆lol, but definitely don’t foresee having the funds to do that unless something like a miracle happens & I’m not saying that’s not possible but, probably, I kinda doubt it & since I doubt it many of us know what that means. No faith, No miracle. Oh well. I got real tired of feeding the local hardly stealerships bank accounts several years ago & stopped. I’m Not surprised what has transpired. The big wigs only used the people to build their “own” Empires, not ours.
OEM parts aren't an option when my bike is 34 years old with a 27 year old engine. I have an S&S belt, pushrods and breather gear, a drag specialties clutch cable, baker drivetrain shift cam and forks, etc.
For any other type of vehicle out there, using a "replacement part" to repair something has never suddenly just upended it's identity. Same seems to even go for folks who LS swap.... damn near anything on four wheels -its still technically that grocery-getter station wagon "sleeper" that came with a 4-pot -now with an LS 350 in it. And we all go "how cool is that Vega" -except for maybe a purist who would rather have 'preserved' that Vega? Preservation is subjective to a lot of people.
Not really the case for repairing/modifying/upgrading Harley's. Most will easily identify one instantly as an HD -even with a tricked out S&S and a bunch of skulls painted everywhere -there is never any confusing that sound or look. 😁
My latest rebuild of my 09 Ultra has Trax drive train, S&S cam plate, oil pump, cams, adjustable push rods, lifters, valve springs, pistons, jugs, man o war compensator, machine performance wheels, Barnett Scorpion clutch, etc. In my eyes it’s still a Harley Davidson.
Aftermarket parts if you shop around can be great parts I rarely use OEM parts. It's still a Harley at heart no matter what you build it with. J S 😎
Need some Badges and a Logo that says "Barely Davidson"
I've got two t-shirts that read 1 x " Hardley Diveable" & the other one is " Highly Dangerous" both within the Harley bar & shield design!!
Engine swap for me for sure, According to DMV it’s still a Harley Davidson
Good afternoon from Indiana.
Hope you're getting some riding in with the weather cooling off!
A Harley is a Harley no matter what you put on it! The title still says it’s a Harley. Personally I won’t give up on the Harley Davidson company. I certainly can’t afford a new one, but I own 2 and keep them in pristine condition. CEO’s come and go, eventually it will come to that. I don’t want to destroy a business that employs American workers!!
I own a Harley and won’t give them another dime. There’s too many aftermarket parts, but I took a job at INDIAN motorcycles of Ocala Fl. Five months ago and have learned the products and road every bike there. I can honestly say Harley it’s way behind the eight ball on technology and price. These bikes have a craft load of technology craftsmanship and attention to detail. It’s like comparing a Cadillac to a compact Chevrolet.
Doesn't matter what you ride, only that you ride !
Although S&S is a superior motor than Harley, I've always tried to keep my bikes' original motors running. Even if every part in them is aftermarket. Bikes, particularly the older bikes, just have a higher resale value if they retain the original motors. Thanks for another great video. You make us think!
I only buy used, fuck the corporation
Mate, if the frame number is a HD number or the engine number is HD, then it's a Harley. I had a SE valve spring go in my M8 LR (Stage 3, all genuine SE/HD parts) only just after 9K miles. When the dealer called me for my approval to do the repair work, I told them to stick the new replacement piece of crap SE valve spring up their arse and to install an S&S valve spring instead.
It’s kinda like old fashioned V8 crate engines. You buy a 350 engine from Jasper it’s still a Chevy engine design. Or a Edelbrock crate engine…it’s still a Chevy 350. And it applies both ways. If you buy an engine from blueprint engine company that’s a Ford design…it’s a Ford. I look at SS the same way. The design is clearly HD…they just improved it. But the basic fundamentals are there and those basic fundamentals were created by the original designers
Never been embarrassed to ride a Harley. And yeah dude - as long as the heart and soul are there - it’s a Harley. Your vid’s are always great - this one feels like a stretch. This is a lesser argument of the axe theory. If you have your grandpas axe and you have to replace the handle, okay. Eventually you have to replace the blade. At what point isn’t it you grandpas axe anymore? To me - it’s more about feel - both physical and peripheral. HD isn’t perfect - but they also don’t deserve all these digs. They’re not overrated - but they are over-hated.
Alright - I got heated before I watched the rest of the vid. I suck. I don’t know man - I think I agree with you. And damn - I always called it a Polaris - but you’ve convinced me - I’ll call it a Pindian from now on. This video stung man…..
You could put a Honda badge on a Harley, but it won't make it reliable.
1999 TC
1974 AMF Keeping my Bikes
My local bike shop is HD certified
And I trust Him to fix my bikes and use the best parts available. Whatever they may be.
My Scottish bike built-in Mexico with Chinese aftermarket parts 2:09
I went with a bunch of aftermarket parts and a tuner even though I have a few months on my warranty yet. Got the Wood 22XE and supporting parts. I honestly think folks that spend the time and money to open stuff up and put Harley parts right back in there are wasting money. But it’s your money. Leaving so much money on the table. And I don’t think it will be long until EPA starts really going at the aftermarket/3rd party also. But yeah wait until your warranty is up and do it right else just eat the warranty, get what you want, and enjoy it. Putting HD/SE stuff back in is just a waste.
I have older bikes . 2002 and older .
Think of them as a blank slate . Can do anything .
You're talking the Bike of Theseus
If the frame and drivetrain are aftermarket its not a Harley. A Harley with a replacement engine i say can still be called a Harley. If you build it put your name on it.
Harley has an attitude against S&S . if they didn't S&S could supply engine and Harley would take off but oh no Harley would rather sell crap.
I call my Road King , my bike because Harley kicked me to the curb.
If you still have a Harley engine and/or frame, it's a Harley.