I have been having trouble wanting to play this game anymore but your dang videos have got me sonexcited for the story and its future. The energy you bring with excitment for your theories wther become real or not is so excited and reinvigorating my want to play again. Also helps me pay attention morr to my own stories i tell in my dnd games. Thanks man. I hope that growth keeps going
Hey Pyro! Love your content. I just want to add a little detail to kind of strengthen this relation set up between these characters. I think you will enjoy this: The Book of Revelations, 9 : 11 : And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. - Kil'jaeden, the second-in-command of Sargeras, drops the two-handed sword Apolyon, the soul-render. Gotta love Chris' storytelling within the details.
6:50 Eru would most definitely interfere directly in some events! While he has mostly avoided that, he did interfere directly a handful of times, including when Gandalf comes back from the dead in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. This was explained by Tolkien in one of his letters. He said that while Gandalf had been originally sent with a mission by the Valar, when that mission failed (his death), The Authority (Eru) took the plan and enlarged it, and sent Gandalf back. One would expect that such a thing would normally have been done by Manwë (the king of the Valar) or Mandos (the Vala of Death / Judgement / Fate), but in this case it was pretty clear that the higher power took over and did it Himself.
If I am not mistaken, Ungoliant was created by Melkor as part of his song. He created warped and twisted versions of creatures and creatures with horns and fangs and ivory (like the helephants). If it isn't that, there are aspects of the creation song that even the ainur are unsure of where they originate from. Like Tom Bombadil. He was in Arda before even the Valar turned their gaze upon it, then too, there are the lovecraftian "old-god"s that lurk in the depths of the earth, even further than where the Balrog of Khazad-dum was trapped. Ungoliant could have been a manifestation of primordial chaos, which Melkor was able to weaponize because he had the most familiarity with the void, though he himself was terrified of Ungoliant, as it had the ability to hurt him.
A Light in the Darkness, at the beginning,by Neal Acree. Such a masterpiece. I miss this quality of Wow music SOOOO much😭😭😭😭😭 And then Grim Batol music plays and choir kicks in 🥲 GLORIOUS And Bastion. Whoever is editing this,knows music 💜
I have been waiting for one of you lore creators to make connections to Tolkiens work since end of BFA. Everyone talked about how shit the N'Zoth cinematic was (yes it was shit) but to me it seemed like a not so subtle hint of where to look for parallels. In before Aman'thul = Melkor and Sargares is more akin to Sauron or Saruman
I think an argument could be made that the player character could be filling the role of Tom Bombadill. We are always the anomaly in a preordained cycle that represents free will amongst its influences.
To help you in the future in these type of comparisons/discussions, there are many denominations and interpretations of the bible and theology, angelology etc, so to understand Tolkien you need to look at catholic interpretations since that is Tolkien's point of view. If you ever interested in studing catholic thinking i would recommend Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica (but some recommend having studied greek philosophy such as Plato and Aristotle first so as to be able to understand Aquinas better), but if you ever search "catholic interpretation of such and such" it should help somewhat i guess. Anyway, i hope The War Within is good, keep up the good work.
Brief correction: God is not the first being, in Christian theology. He is Being itself; that from which all things flow. This borrows from Jewish teaching on the name of God, YHVH.
@@vorben7826I don’t agree with the idea that Yahweh made things imperfect so that He would look better by comparison. I also find that to be a troubling view of a creator. Perfection is a difficult concept, because what do we mean by it? A robot with no free will who never disobeys might be perfect, but is it good? It isn’t bad, I suppose. But I could hardly call it good. I think freedom is better than no freedom. And with the presence of freedom comes the potential for error and corruption. Yahweh did not cause the imperfection, but a world with the potential for imperfection is better than one without that potential.
I mentioned in a past video of yours Azeroth seemed to be like the Christian God based on the wonderful theories you were putting forward. Glad you're looking into that angle, I'm curious which parts of Christianity hasn't jived with you in the past. I'd love to discuss it with you some time.
@@hobosnake1 well yeah of course he doesn't owe me an explanation, it's just an invitation to discuss it because I'm curious. The Christian canon is chok full of narrative value that pops up all over the place in media knowing or unknowingly so it's great he's looking into it.
Amanthul would more closely compare to Manwe as leader of the pantheon. Manwe was the leader of the Valar. I don’t think any entity has been introduced to WoW that compares to Eru Illuvatar. Maybe Elune Azeroth would compare with a Valar.
I think that's why we're getting the saga, cause I think after that, there will be some epic event to where the world self destructs in a way where we'll have sort of different timeline
@@shinobi-mediait's going to be the places we know and love, but yeah. A reset on azeroth seems likely. They wouldn't be remastering all these zones slowly over time just to scrap it again with the last titan. I think after the last titan, we get "wow 2" which us just kind of cataclysm that doesn't fuck everything up.
the first ones are more like the hndu gods brahma the creator (azeroth) vishnu the sustainer and shiva the destroyer (not sure which one of those 2 sargaras and argus would be though tbh)
@@blu3d3vil97 thats what i was thinking of because of sargaras' role as the destroyer with the legion and argus' role of being used to bring the legion back to life when they die
All religions have a common thread of trying to take mythic concepts, and using that to “order” humanity. You should look into the Creation myths from Proto-Indo European mythology.
@@finiteresident2294 Not quite, that’s technically true but more in the same way that Sauron embedded his own essence into the Ring, Morgoth embedded his essence into the earth during his part in creation (or rather the Inversion of it). Morgoth himself was definitely cast into the void.
the maw is earths future or hell, cant decide. Zouvol is the beats. If you talk Venari in the maw, she has an item that puts the jailors mark on your 4 head to keep the bads away. that would be the mark of the beast. In the bible, the beast is no Lucifer, hes the one that comes before.
Funner Fact: What is the Book of Job? What is Ezekiel? What is Genesis 3-7 What is 1 Enoch and the Book of the Watchers? "Lucifer" is definitely a medieval counterpart from the Occultic Pythagorean Cults aka Babylonian Talmudic Jews. They call him Samael. Samael existed before the NT You're all very uneducated The idea though of him being a ruler of anything, being a blond winged entity etc is indeed all pure fiction but it isn't Christian. It comes from those that think the Seraphim freed us from some bondage in Genesis.... You're very uneducated on this subject
both Lucifer and Jesus were named "the morning star". Sargeras is a star rn. So chances are Jesus and Lucifer are the same entity. He was probablt the serpent too. hence why God exhiled him to Earth. and God is clearly unreachable physically meaning he is beyons the "veil" so the entrance seem to be to be alive, so Jesus got born. Also, another thing Apocalypse means something like "unVEiLiNG" i forgot
Wrong. Let me clarify for you. Jesus is called and referenced as the BRIGHT Morning Star, because he is indeed the First. A morning Star, a "Lucifer" isn't even the Seraphim's name, it is a state of reference to the time of Creation in which those entities were made - hence, these Seraphim were made in the dawn of Creation so they are morning stars, the first celestials made. That Seraphim, is never actually named. Angels don't have names. They just have titles. Even their names are just titles. Michael is "Whom is like God?" Etc. Closest we get to a name for Samael (poison of God) is actually Anaphel, the anger of God. Because where God's wrath is kindled, you will see analogies in the language for Satan. Yeshua/Jesus is like Gods personality projected. Like how you and I have a mind, a consciousness, that's the Father - and how you and I have a soul, a conscience, that's the Holy Spirit of God, and when our mind and heart aka thoughts and feelings (like us) come together to formulate the Self, aka the Word, that is what Yeshua/Jesus is from the Godhead, the Self of God.
And to help you too, it isn't a Serpent 🐍 It's a Seraphim, the word in Genesis is Seraphim. A class of rank for the first angels. Also it's a smart play on words because the author in Genesis also used the root word for Soul to spell out Snake. (NEPHESH to Nachash) Jesus is God personified incarnate. He is the Creator as a Man. Here in the old testament, a pre incarnate Christ - God as a man - wrestles with Jacob So God can be in the physical world 24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Thank you sooooooo much for coming back to WoW. Your lore deep dives is truly ambrosia of the soul.
I have been having trouble wanting to play this game anymore but your dang videos have got me sonexcited for the story and its future. The energy you bring with excitment for your theories wther become real or not is so excited and reinvigorating my want to play again. Also helps me pay attention morr to my own stories i tell in my dnd games. Thanks man. I hope that growth keeps going
Hey Pyro! Love your content. I just want to add a little detail to kind of strengthen this relation set up between these characters. I think you will enjoy this:
The Book of Revelations, 9 : 11 :
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. - Kil'jaeden, the second-in-command of Sargeras, drops the two-handed sword Apolyon, the soul-render. Gotta love Chris' storytelling within the details.
I’m so glad you’re back doing these videos!!
You might enjoy some of Nixxiom’s takes on LOTR
6:50 Eru would most definitely interfere directly in some events! While he has mostly avoided that, he did interfere directly a handful of times, including when Gandalf comes back from the dead in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. This was explained by Tolkien in one of his letters. He said that while Gandalf had been originally sent with a mission by the Valar, when that mission failed (his death), The Authority (Eru) took the plan and enlarged it, and sent Gandalf back.
One would expect that such a thing would normally have been done by Manwë (the king of the Valar) or Mandos (the Vala of Death / Judgement / Fate), but in this case it was pretty clear that the higher power took over and did it Himself.
He also directly obliterated Númenor
Now to get to where Ungoliant came from. Was she an Ainur or something from Timeless Void where the flame imperishable does not reach?
If I am not mistaken, Ungoliant was created by Melkor as part of his song. He created warped and twisted versions of creatures and creatures with horns and fangs and ivory (like the helephants).
If it isn't that, there are aspects of the creation song that even the ainur are unsure of where they originate from. Like Tom Bombadil. He was in Arda before even the Valar turned their gaze upon it, then too, there are the lovecraftian "old-god"s that lurk in the depths of the earth, even further than where the Balrog of Khazad-dum was trapped.
Ungoliant could have been a manifestation of primordial chaos, which Melkor was able to weaponize because he had the most familiarity with the void, though he himself was terrified of Ungoliant, as it had the ability to hurt him.
You should also have a look at Supernatural's interpretation of the Higher powers like God, The Darkness, The Emptiness.
A Light in the Darkness, at the beginning,by Neal Acree. Such a masterpiece. I miss this quality of Wow music SOOOO much😭😭😭😭😭
And then Grim Batol music plays and choir kicks in 🥲 GLORIOUS
And Bastion. Whoever is editing this,knows music 💜
I have been waiting for one of you lore creators to make connections to Tolkiens work since end of BFA. Everyone talked about how shit the N'Zoth cinematic was (yes it was shit) but to me it seemed like a not so subtle hint of where to look for parallels. In before Aman'thul = Melkor and Sargares is more akin to Sauron or Saruman
I miss the beard. :(
It grows back
I think an argument could be made that the player character could be filling the role of Tom Bombadill. We are always the anomaly in a preordained cycle that represents free will amongst its influences.
To help you in the future in these type of comparisons/discussions, there are many denominations and interpretations of the bible and theology, angelology etc, so to understand Tolkien you need to look at catholic interpretations since that is Tolkien's point of view. If you ever interested in studing catholic thinking i would recommend Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica (but some recommend having studied greek philosophy such as Plato and Aristotle first so as to be able to understand Aquinas better), but if you ever search "catholic interpretation of such and such" it should help somewhat i guess. Anyway, i hope The War Within is good, keep up the good work.
Is there a link to the essay?
Brief correction: God is not the first being, in Christian theology. He is Being itself; that from which all things flow. This borrows from Jewish teaching on the name of God, YHVH.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Christian mythology*
@@KC-py5vq theology. It's a whole study. Mythology is stories. Extinct pagan religions had theology too, and its still theology not mythology.
@@KC-py5vq wow, you're so edgy
@@vorben7826I don’t agree with the idea that Yahweh made things imperfect so that He would look better by comparison. I also find that to be a troubling view of a creator.
Perfection is a difficult concept, because what do we mean by it? A robot with no free will who never disobeys might be perfect, but is it good? It isn’t bad, I suppose. But I could hardly call it good.
I think freedom is better than no freedom. And with the presence of freedom comes the potential for error and corruption. Yahweh did not cause the imperfection, but a world with the potential for imperfection is better than one without that potential.
I mentioned in a past video of yours Azeroth seemed to be like the Christian God based on the wonderful theories you were putting forward. Glad you're looking into that angle, I'm curious which parts of Christianity hasn't jived with you in the past. I'd love to discuss it with you some time.
bro cringe leave the guy alone xD you undercover Jahovah withness
Maybe it's OK that he doesn't jive with it? He doesn't really owe an explanation, I think he just likes it as an angle from which to analyze things
@@hobosnake1 well yeah of course he doesn't owe me an explanation, it's just an invitation to discuss it because I'm curious. The Christian canon is chok full of narrative value that pops up all over the place in media knowing or unknowingly so it's great he's looking into it.
Amanthul would more closely compare to Manwe as leader of the pantheon. Manwe was the leader of the Valar. I don’t think any entity has been introduced to WoW that compares to Eru Illuvatar. Maybe Elune
Azeroth would compare with a Valar.
Wouldn't Eru be basically the clash of light and shadow that created all?
Manyah is just Yahweh
And the put man in front lol
Is Metzen finally going to destroy wow as we know it in creating a new universe?
I think that's why we're getting the saga, cause I think after that, there will be some epic event to where the world self destructs in a way where we'll have sort of different timeline
@@shinobi-mediait's going to be the places we know and love, but yeah. A reset on azeroth seems likely. They wouldn't be remastering all these zones slowly over time just to scrap it again with the last titan. I think after the last titan, we get "wow 2" which us just kind of cataclysm that doesn't fuck everything up.
11:29 I think the long beards are the bronze beards in wow bronze is time measured in length that’s where my brain went
the first ones are more like the hndu gods brahma the creator (azeroth) vishnu the sustainer and shiva the destroyer (not sure which one of those 2 sargaras and argus would be though tbh)
Sargeras the destroyer
Argus the sustainer
Cuz life and death are a cycle
Cant have one without the other
@@blu3d3vil97 thats what i was thinking of because of sargaras' role as the destroyer with the legion and argus' role of being used to bring the legion back to life when they die
All religions have a common thread of trying to take mythic concepts, and using that to “order” humanity.
You should look into the Creation myths from Proto-Indo European mythology.
As you mentioned, "fel" means wrong in swedish. But it is pronounced differently.
Anyone who loves WoW lore absolutely needs to read The Silmariollion
You shouldn’t say his name, he was branded Morgoth forever until the end.
Ainur reads very similarly to eonar :)
Melkor is super badass but i dont think he ever won a battle in the lore.
@@howardhavardramberg333 is that what happened? I thought he embedded himself into the earth.
@@finiteresident2294 Not quite, that’s technically true but more in the same way that Sauron embedded his own essence into the Ring, Morgoth embedded his essence into the earth during his part in creation (or rather the Inversion of it). Morgoth himself was definitely cast into the void.
tell that to the noldor
@@nickthebold That’s a kinslaying for that one
the maw is earths future or hell, cant decide. Zouvol is the beats. If you talk Venari in the maw, she has an item that puts the jailors mark on your 4 head to keep the bads away. that would be the mark of the beast. In the bible, the beast is no Lucifer, hes the one that comes before.
Black ROCKS! Lmao
omg dude. the pronunciations....
they are all wrong and all hilarious haha and i love it
SHEPherds of the forest
Fun fact: Lucifer is not canonical, it's Christian fan fiction.
all religion is.
this information even if true doesnt change anything.
His name is literally stated in the bible. If it wasn’t canonical then his name wouldn’t even be mentioned into the text.
Funner Fact: What is the Book of Job?
What is Ezekiel?
What is Genesis 3-7
What is 1 Enoch and the Book of the Watchers?
"Lucifer" is definitely a medieval counterpart from the Occultic Pythagorean Cults aka Babylonian Talmudic Jews.
They call him Samael.
Samael existed before the NT
You're all very uneducated
The idea though of him being a ruler of anything, being a blond winged entity etc is indeed all pure fiction but it isn't Christian. It comes from those that think the Seraphim freed us from some bondage in Genesis....
You're very uneducated on this subject
And before it is an ad hominem talking point, I obviously said funner vs more fun for effect.
first
first the worst
both Lucifer and Jesus were named "the morning star".
Sargeras is a star rn.
So chances are Jesus and Lucifer are the same entity.
He was probablt the serpent too.
hence why God exhiled him to Earth.
and God is clearly unreachable physically meaning he is beyons the "veil" so the entrance seem to be to be alive, so Jesus got born.
Also, another thing Apocalypse means something like "unVEiLiNG" i forgot
Wrong.
Let me clarify for you.
Jesus is called and referenced as the BRIGHT Morning Star, because he is indeed the First.
A morning Star, a "Lucifer" isn't even the Seraphim's name, it is a state of reference to the time of Creation in which those entities were made - hence, these Seraphim were made in the dawn of Creation so they are morning stars, the first celestials made.
That Seraphim, is never actually named. Angels don't have names. They just have titles. Even their names are just titles.
Michael is "Whom is like God?" Etc.
Closest we get to a name for Samael (poison of God) is actually Anaphel, the anger of God. Because where God's wrath is kindled, you will see analogies in the language for Satan.
Yeshua/Jesus is like Gods personality projected.
Like how you and I have a mind, a consciousness, that's the Father - and how you and I have a soul, a conscience, that's the Holy Spirit of God, and when our mind and heart aka thoughts and feelings (like us) come together to formulate the Self, aka the Word, that is what Yeshua/Jesus is from the Godhead, the Self of God.
And to help you too, it isn't a Serpent 🐍
It's a Seraphim, the word in Genesis is Seraphim.
A class of rank for the first angels.
Also it's a smart play on words because the author in Genesis also used the root word for Soul to spell out Snake. (NEPHESH to Nachash)
Jesus is God personified incarnate. He is the Creator as a Man.
Here in the old testament, a pre incarnate Christ - God as a man - wrestles with Jacob
So God can be in the physical world
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
@@BonenJump-126gulph read any of the late Dr. Michael Heiser's stuff?