AFR Renegades SBF heads - Over-hyped or underrated?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- PowerTec 10 EP 10 AFR SBF 165 Heads
AFR's small block Ford heads with the smallest port they offer at 165 cc have proved good performers over the years. However in an effort to cut costs some companies products have dropped a little down the performance scale. In this episode (part 1 of 2 parts)we check out the latest AFR offering to see how they stand on this issue.
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Most of us are very appreciative of you DV. Thanks for everything over the years.
Amen!! Such a smart and humble man.
I'm in David. In fact I've been in for a while. Please accept my condolences. Thanks.
This is the video I been listening to cause I had anxiety. I loved his voice far better than Bob Ross. I just bought 1500 in parts and I rested on David. I know his info is spot on
Should make sure all of us who watch should support David.
It's so refreshing to see him in person cutting through all the BS just as we've read from him over the many years. Masterclass as always.
This was like being in a classroom environment where you actually learn something. This guy is great! I particularly liked the fact that he knew about keeping the dimples of a golf ball vs a polished port. If it were not for dimples in a golf ball the ball would not even go half as far. The dimples cause eddies which reduces friction of the air going past them hence greater flow.
Any information that a person can absorb over there lifetime is always a positive thing, good or bad something can be learned from it. Keep up the good work David, your a inspiring man! I always value your knowledge. Thank you.
Great video David. How streetable is the 560 hp 331? What kind of idle rpm? Vacuum at idle? Also would you consider any testing with EFI intakes since the after market EFI offerings are so plentiful today?
I would love to see your review of the afr enforcer 195 sbc heads, especially if ordered with the 2.05" intake valve for the$20.00 upgrade cost I have heard afr charges for it.
I could listen to your stories all day! Such useful information
My GOD David the flow from ET heads I nearly fell off my chair!.Years ago Daryl Hale in California was getting good air flow from D5 351w he cut exhaust smog bump into shark fin flow director. He was a porter,company was called AfFORDable performance. Write up on him in ford magazine 25 years ago.
From a decades-old fan, I love it when there's another one of your videos to watch. I always learn a ton.
Remember POST PRODUCTION EDITING IS YOUR FRIEND !
Don't be afraid to read written notes on camera , so you don't have to try to remember everything off the top of your head !
Write SCRIPTS , preproduction planning helps make a better video ! This will make your current high quality videos , GREAT !
Keep up the GOOD work I look forward to your new book.
Big fan of AFR. I've used several sets of both 165 and 185 SBF AFR heads. I personally always upgrade them to a 7/16 rocker stud.
Supposedly 185 are zero loss over the 165 and gains up top.
@@dennisrobinson8008 they are.
reason people use 165 is because of the small valves that lets it be a bolt on. you cant just bolt the 185 on. its a 2.02 valve.
Twisted wedges with certain cam timing events can be bolted on and be a 2.02 valve
Good catch in the 165's work with the stock valve reliefs and the 2.02 heads are going to have issues at any significant lift and duration. @@KingJT80
@@dennisrobinson8008 yeah if I build a stroker I'd use the 185s all day. No real reason for a 165 at that point
From the Chevy LS data might as well be AFR205 or similar on any 331,347,351,357,363 build. That 300+CFM@.500" and over 275cfm@.400" and 220-230@.300". @@KingJT80
Holy Moly!!! David is back in the shop !!! So happy to see you back David, especially in this horrible H&S context. If it wasn't for the collective hysteria I'd be in attendance at Mt Holly. Best regards to Marvin,
Power tec 30 haha.. you and uncle Tony are my favorite channels!
I think its because I'm a racer and so are you guys!
We speak racer talk I love it!
I rewatch everything 2 or 3 times..
David is a man of class a great teacher to many generations.
WOuldnt compare him to UT. No dogging on the guy though
I am down for power tech 30. :-)
You teased a shimmed hydraulic roller lifters story years ago in a magazine. Could you plz cover this subject again. Thx... Love the sbf content!
It's not easy making a TH-cam clip, your a national,thank you,kind Sir,you who is David Vizard x
You sir are a Genius! Thank you Sir!
Great video. I just can't get over the small runner and valve size, I'm not saying I'm right but 165 seems small. They make a 195cc head with a 2.02 valve which in my cave man bigger is better mind seems like a better choice for hot street. I've heard stock 5.0ho piston valve reliefs wont clear the AFRs 2.02 in the 195s with out fly cutting, if so the 165s are mandatory. Seems I plan on doing heads first I guess the 165s are the ones. Also I won't be building some giant killer 5.0 just a strong feeling street machine, I'd love to see 350 rwhp and if I decide to go higher I'll just do it with boost and I would think with boost the smaller 165 port is plenty efficient for good power. Plus I would imagine the 165s would make great low end TQ, even tho the stock 5.0ho is pretty underwhelming in high rpm power they do have a surprising large amount of grunt for an engine with a tiny 3" stroke. They pull very strong at 2000rpm! Ringing them out to redline is pretty pointless.
Id get in trouble, grade school for reading DVs books in school hidden in my class books.
Teacher and my Dad thought I was a strange little man. ID go to the bookstore in the northridge mall or the local chevy dealer and buy everyone I could, even Smokeys, Gms performance catalogs etc.
In the past you briefly commented on 30-degree Valve-Seats,
others, (with no-less astounding reputations), have scoffed at such an idea,
claiming that sharp-edged 45 degree corners are "required",
along with other multiple sharp-edged / precision-width cuts.
Using 30-degree Seats makes sense to me,
as well as hand-blending to a single cut on the Seats and the Valves.
But without a Flow-Bench, or the backing of a full-blown Racing-Organisation,
this is all rather academic.
AFR did an astounding job on their low-lift-flow with this Head.
It would be very interesting to learn how they accomplished that,
and whether it was accomplished at the expense of high-lift-flow (0.600"+).
These Low-Lift Flow numbers can only be accomplished via the Valve-Job.
I tend to doubt any claimed detrimental effect on high-lift-flow created by that same Valve-Job,
( Over-all Valve-Shape has an effect, certainly, but not necessarily Seat-Angles / Widths ).
( The Seats make up a rapidly decreasing percentage of
the shape of the Flow-Window at higher-Lifts ).
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.
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Kudos David. Educational, Entertaining and throughly Enjoyable.
Very detailed and informative video for those interested in engine building. I hope your videos get good circulation numbers
I just can't wait for him to get a whole year's experience under his belt...lol
How do these compare to the old TFS/KPI as cast 170 highport?
Fantastic information!
However, being a Chevy man, let's see the same level of information for the AFR Eliminator's.
That is one amazing sbf. Thanks Mr DV looking forward to more educational videos. I have learned a ton and it’s starting to be very clear and obvious what i have been doing wrong in the past. Thanks again
Good job showing telling your the best keep on showing telling us. See ya next time see ya bye bye.
I really enjoy these videos. Thank you for teaching us this sir. I have most of your books, I like Ford Engines and I have had an almost "aganaising" wait for your new Ford book. Do you know when it will be available?
Another great video. David a buddy of mine runs AFR heads. They told him not to run an MLS head gasket. Any experience with this. 3 runs burned head gasket. Changed to composite or regular fel pro and no issues. Thanks
Interesting stuff about these heads. I'm real curious to find out how they do on the dyno with that RPM Air Gap intake. Staying tuned...
Hey David enjoyed the vid,for that 331 motor is the camshaft secretive,i am building a 363 with a dart iron eagle block solid roller street/strip,i was thinking going with ford motorsport yates c3 head,would better to go with a AFR220
You will need a 730 plus roller camshaft with the yates and custom pistons but will make way more power than the 220 heads.
So great to learn from some one with real world experience and life time Testing we love you for what your doing sharing your knowledge
I wish I could have studied under your tooling when I started out being a mech so very knowledgeable you make better since than anyone I have ever listened to.I had a dream of making my life of building race engines, but life caught up with me and I had to make a living, and let childhood dreams take a back seat still a mechanic, love your tech,wonderful and VERY INTELLIGENT, I don't like dum people I could listen to you explain things that I never thought of just great stuff info
Grandios ! Thank you for all the Information !
Dave - I bought your book - how to modify your Mini back in the 1970s' .. have bought most of your books - thank you for being an inspiration to those of us still in the game ! God Bless brother !
Above Excellence . David have you tested SBF Trick-flow 11r Heads Similarly . They seem to have the goods from what I’ve read about them . I believe you could work out wether they are on Par with AFR . Thanks .
"Hardware is top quality", that statement must not cover the valve guides. So many cylinder heads were impacted by inferior valve guides that AFR paid for new guides to be installed and return shipping.
I'm curious as to why you're speaking about a head that's been around maybe 20 plus years....🤔
I'm curious what David thinks of Trick Flow 11r 190 heads for the SBF.
I would like to know as well about Trick Flow heads as AFR never reply to emails which makes it difficult to get information.
I too would like to see a comparison of the 11R head vs. the AFR Renegades!
You flipped them on the exhaust flow comparison.. it's clear in the video that it flows better on the exhaust flow than your E7 worked head, but you had them backwards in your commentary.
For such a small port, the advantage is the port velocity. Instead of a randomly worked tripple duce, a better comparison is how these heads would do on a stroker, or even 351 with a factory-like (but obviously improved or aftermarket) long runner FI manifold, or for carb use, a long runner cross flow or tunnel ram type with a smaller cross section. Those types of induction would take advantage of high port velocity in the low and mid rpm ranges.
Mr Vizard...
I have been a great admierer and fan since the early 2000's of your work and have built some really saucy Chevy 350's via your guides etc.
My question however is this..
Is it possible to match a cam perfectly using a formula that rates duration degrees vs cfm to match the intake and exhaust ports perfectly to maximize the engines performance?!?
What i mean is this...
Lets say we have a Chevy 350 and AFR 195 Eliminator heads..
Lets say we know that peak CFM is .550" lift on intake and likewise exhaust.. Intake flow is 280cfm at said lift on intake and 220 on exhaust.
Is it possible to break down the camshaft duration in degrees per each amount of cfm flow at a given rpm to maximize the I/E flow potential to increase power or is this a factor that cannot be ever dialed in due to vacuum on intake and pressure on exhaust?
Thanks again and love the work!
No negative comments from me! That’s for sure! I loved your Holley carb book and I’ve been a fan of yours ever since! Built a 347 around your wonderful knowledge, and this video also doesn’t disappoint! So thank you for your insight! You and clearly a horsepower wizard!
i have a set of gt 40p heads and dont want to ruin them...i was told to use as is but i cant ..im trying to learn from ypur instruction vids butdont see any gt40 info....i also have e7 s and 289 heads to work on e7s ..dime a dozen ...gt 40p not so much ...Thank you for any info
I have a 66 mustang. Want to build my own high torque 302 I appreciate you sharing with me all the components you would use to turn heads but last
What program is he using?
can u do a show on port shape for velocity ...show what a port should look like ....big on ends.....necked down in middle or not????????
Fantastic video, but I do have a question. If you were to run a Edelbrock Performer RPM Air gap intake should you bother to get it Extrude Honed to Equalize as much as possible the high side and the low side of that manifold or should you just bolt it on. I have seen port jobs on this manifold gaining as much as 80 cfm on some runners and my thought is that each cylinder should have the same cfm going to it but in tests most people just bolt this manifold on and it just works. Could you please give me some clarity on this subject. I am really interested in this because for a street motor you want as much torque as possible so a Dual Plane manifold is king and if that said street motor can make power to 6500 rpm then thats truly Awsome. Thanks
DV. Thanks again for so much info. Technical truth is so hard to find when people are just trying to sell you their snake oil.
Would have been 10 minutes without all the rambling. Come on David 😅 and I believe you are leaving out how much flow you lose with the intake attached on the bench. You can just destroy a good head with bad or inadequate intake for the project goals.
Like your going to tell DV something....?
@@philipmazzuca2269 I'm not telling him anything I have experience with a bench myself (I own one) and it was eye opening when I started testing manifolds with the heads. I think the Viewers would like to see that. How can you calculate a HP #without a coefficient on the intake manifold?
I agree with what your saying and I believe you are correct. I just think he does these videos in segments......... maybe I’m wrong. I think these “other” guys who are commenting should read his books or just go watch someone else instead of making some dumb ass comments.
@@victordahn2150 Same. I had an EFI intake I had done a bunch of port work to and it sucked a 290cfm head down to 250cfm. I woulda swore that was impossible.
@@superkillr ya and if you are being conservative and saying 2hp/cfm that is significant. I have started testing with everything on the intake side. You can make significant gains with some small 0$ changes
Missing teacher put to translation
I’m more blown away that you were able to get E7TE to perform so well.
I've been thinking about putting golf ball dimples on the backside of intake valves. Not to increase the flow but to promote atomization of fuel and to promote turbulance. I would think this would ensure complete combustion. I know some dirt bike aftermarket valves are available with dimples.
I love this stuff!!! I would like to see mopar. Do you do books on la motor? How do you get the program you are always talking about and showing. Sorry to hear about your daughter.
Good old boy. 👌 Shame they didn't do a Big block Imp back in the day, may be some really big, say 1298cc😆
Is it worth putting bee hive springs on afr sbc 195 competition cnc heads?
Good 👍 video. Nice 🙂 professor. Thank you!
Hi David, Interesting vid once again. I was wondering: Have you ever had the chance to actually compare real world dyno results on the same head, same ports, same everything EXCEPT with and without the golf ball texture?
That would be a very interesting video that could put that subject to bed, regardless of the outcome.
Top notch sir top notch , the tempo and wealth of knowledge are easy subscribing and thumbs up for me
have you any experience with the early ford motorsport aluminum j heads? are they adequate for a 347 street stroker?
I’ve learned so much watching and taking notes from DV. His methods work. Great video and information.
Great stuff!! I love the flow development. I think most dislikes come down to people with bad connections tapping the screen. My phone will do it. There's a delay in the like or dislike showing up. Unless you see something particular in the comments, chalk it up to phone mismanagement.
Sir im blessed to be able to watch your knowledge at work your a piece of performance history in my book.
Your wisdom is exceptional!!! Instantly subbed!
Thankyou mr vizard for sharing your experience.your the reason I devoted to porting.thankyou.peace
Those dimples on the inside of the intake runner actually help in speeding up the velocity of the fuel air mixture. They act like aerofoils like an airplane wing.
The air speeds up as it goes over the top.
They did studies on the hood of a car and it showed that the air would slow down and drag over the smooth surface.
Hi Mr. Vizard, for a 306 sbf with a ported RPM intake that flows an average of 300cfm/runner and cam in the neighborhood of .550 lift/224/232 duration would you recommend these AFR 165 heads or the TFS 11R 170 or 190’s? Street car, turbo, looking for a 5500rpm power peak
165 help keep velocity up to minimize turbo lag then the turbo takes over and forces psi through the smaller heads. But get the competition exhaust port if available.
Hello DV, you also have a very strong following in Australia. Excellent information
I'm 54, when I grow up I wanna know half of what Dave has forgotten.
When you was talking about the ridges in the runners from the cnc I too was thinking golf ball surface, it cuts through the air better. 👍
What happened to the big block Chevy video from earlier today?
Great video and information!
Do you recommend porting and/or port matching the RPM AirGap manifold?
( I'm building an 11:1 Dart block 363 with AFR 195 Renegades, and I want to use the RPM AirGap dual plane intake because it will be mostly street driven on 93 octane pump gas.... also I need enough vacuum at idle for power brakes.)
363 cubes would work fine with a single plane on the street. Especially if you got a manual transmission.
Cut my teeth reading and listening to you. Thank you I have learned a lot.
Would love to hear you expound on what has been modified on the E7TE heads
Grind on them for 2 weeks straight put them on the bench about 100 times. Iron is terrible to work with.
@@victordahn2150 and those heads are junk for flow
Thank you. Very informative
I would love to hear David scrutinize BluePrint cylinder heads, because that’s what I’m running
AFR uses those NKB castings in their Enforcer SBF heads, but add the 8mm Renegade valve package.
What are pro stock friction levels?
Power tech 10 because it feels like 10 minutes
Love the info sir!
For many years I was a "Chevy v8 guy" but as I've matured, I realize that nearly any engine will respond well to these mods. My current project is a Chevy inline 6, '71 250. Siamesed ports and bolt bosses thru the center if the intake ports and all. I'm not convinced all has been wrung from these heads that could be, and your books on porting/flow testing, and building horsepower have been really helpful in persuading this antique engine to play well in the modern world. Thank you for all you've done over the years; much of it has been directly helpful to me in my efforts. I try to convince anyone who has problems getting more power, to get your books and start from the beginning in identifying and solving whatever problem they are experiencing. Your anecdotes are both fun and enlightening; please keep relating them as they apply to the subject being video taped.
Do you know about "lump port" for the 250?
@@bobstitzenberger1834 yup, I know about them. At least 3 ways to do them, but it looks like the G2 is most effective, for the least money and time.
I've seen dividers made to make the 3 ports into 6, with a bolt hole for head bolt and a pin at the end, into a drilled hole
Yeah, that's something I'd like to try. Probably would work decently well, since it would come close to giving each cylinder its own charge, but it would really limit high rpm. That's okay because most of the driving happens between 750 and about 4000 rpm or so. I thought about a thin wall maybe of 416 stainless between the bolt boss and the very end of the port. Making a completely new piece makes more sense. I hope I can try it.
It adds bottom end, but doesn't hurt top end. The intake can be cut with a band saw so the ports can be separated. The ideal would be making a long runner tube manifold, kind of like a header.
DV is not a head porter he's a head scientist.
At 10:10 Dave measures spring pressure at installed height failing to account for the retainer height....
To be fair Dave knows how to measure spring pressure... I think it's just a video choreograph error..
It is a privilege to sit at the knee of a Master. Thank You Sir.
Appreciate your lesson DV
The science of it is the best part, to truly understand
Could you do a set of sbf profiler heads to see if there numbers are realistic
Well, what are the hp and torque curves? It would be helpful info.
They are in partwo when we hit the dyno.
HI DAVID DONT CHANGE A THING YOUR VIDEOS ARE THE BEST
Love the info... have you any honda porting info
Thank be you David very nice work
Good stiff thanks fave
Anybody heard from David soon?
Probably needs a break. Hell be back.
Power tech time
Great video and great information
The best in the business
Soooo much information! Thank you
Liking it,🤙
Renegades or 11r for street turbo setup
Both great heads.
There ain't no way on God's green earth you are getting anywhere close to 280cfm from an E7 head.. no way no how. Did you forget the spark plug and the exhaust valve?
Thanks for the comment here. It has helped in as much as it has promted my to do a 'how to' on doing the work required.
That's why he's teaching you and your listing! Please teach us more David.
Looks great! I love your videos. I want a head and cam combo for a 427 sbf. Can you help me?
Largest xfi stroker comp cam.
Better would be custom.
Then AFR 205 - 220
Pick between a super vic or rpm airgap. Depending on what you're trying to do.
Thats my thoughts exactly. My only question is, this is a street motor and i am 10.5 cr. My thoughts are the 205 because the port velocity will be higher and i plan to use the borla 8 stack fuel injection. Whst are your thoughts? Thanks
Lol way to small of heads.
@@ryangulley2051 205 is too small?
I'm putting 500 to the tire. Throttle response is great with 3.89 gears lol.
220 is a great head too. I almost went that route. But wanted more velocity. Custom cam helps a lot too.
@@markcarter78 yup. Bigger isn't always better. What kind of car and trans? I have a 5 spd and a 67 mustang. So it's pretty light.
I have AFR 220's on my 438windsor
How do you like them? I bought a set of 220's for a 408W build I'm doing for an AC Cobra.
@@JG-kv4oi Excellent Head and 438 pulls like a raped ape
@@JG-kv4oi 438 pulls to 7200rpm like a swiss watch
@@maximusvonce1381 Good to hear. Thanks. Mine will be a street motor but lumpy. Just now choosing my cam specs, solid roller, 105-107 lsa, .600ish + lift, duration yet to be chosen. RPM air gap with a 880 quick fuel, Tremec TKO 600 5 spd. Will likely not spin it past 6500. Forged or Hyperutectic pistons, forged crank. Hoping for about 500 hp at 3600 elevation.
@@JG-kv4oi Hey go with a Comp Cams Xr292r Billet core On 112 LSA. Its their largest street roller cam. And make sure you use Isky bushed lifters if street car. That cam spins from 3200-7200rpm.
I ;d love to see you take on the GM ls heads
David, you are my favorite Engine guru, being following you since the 90’s awesome content