GIANT 5.0L FORD HEAD TEST-PART 2 (10 HEADS TESTED)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- E7TE vs THE WORLD. HOW DID YOUR FAVORITE HEADS DO? CHECK OUT THIS TEST WHERE WE COMPARED THE STOCK 5.0L FORD HEADS TO 9 OTHER AFTER MARKET HEADS. WHAT ARE HEADS WORTH ON A 333 STROKER SMALL BL,OCK FORD? HERE IN PART 2, THE HEADS FLOW MORE SO WE USED A BIGGER, BETTER TEST MOTOR. PLUS BETTER DATA DISPLAY!
I wish you could give us a horsepower and torque gain number for each head and then possibly show them in order from least to most.
Thank you Richard for your content used to pay 5 bucks for magazines just to see stuff like this!
This! 👍
Dang, I'm waiting to see them all now, before I choose which ones will go on my street 351w turbo build. Thanks for the information, it's saving me time and money.
Great comparison Richard. This is the kind of detail everyone hopes to see. I especially welcome your comment at the end about how all the heads perform well enough to satisfy most hot rodders needs, and the down-to-earth cost consideration. Not everyone is competing at the dragstrip. With that in mind, how do you think the budget ProMaxx 180 SBF head would have performed in this line-up?
I have the Promaxx 180's on my 302 and am very happy with it. I'm going to a 331 stroker now and I really don't need to change much. I have been considering upgrading the cam. Good luck
Cool video. Missed seeing the Holley Systemax from part 1.
Great video, thanks. Did you do any research or testing on a 351w?
lots of 351W vids up
@@richardholdener1727 thanks, I found a few more after I posted the question. I’ll watch them as I find them. Great stuff!!!
Thankyou Richard! Can you show us what a rev kit is for and why we would need it?
I don't think you do with the right springs and cam
@@richardholdener1727 Thankyou for your advice and your time Richard its much appreciated!
First...
Would've been nice if you had overlayed all the HP curves so we could see them all together.
Didn't you do that in the previous video?
Ten different curves?
No thanks. Pick the couple you like and screenshot them
@@iqinsanity Would be helpful for me.
I suppose if it were too confusing for someone like yourself, you could easily just ignore that part of the video.
Lol, you think it would confuse me?
I’m not the one who can’t pick a head without a graph with 10 different lines on it.
Maybe you should just buy a pre matched package? Edelbrock and Trick Flow make nice ones for amateurs such as yourself.
Ten curves laid over themselves...youd see them all together but you wouldnt really be able to differentiate the curves. It would just be a mess. Like was said...screen shot and stop being lazy.
@@HerrPoopschitz They are different colors, "Poopshitz".
I can differentiate them just fine.
Any chance we could see some stuff for the turbo Mopar guys?? 2.2/2.5 and maybe some 2.4 neon stuff? Loving the content! Working at a machine shop and am really interested in everything!
I do like Neons
So do you think because the afr's have better exhaust flow they would make a better head for turbo?
I am also curious about this?
Excellent question! I wanna know too. Obviously exhaust velocity would help.
Right on
canfield heads back in the day
Aren't the new Ford heads on the crate engines Canfields?
@@robertelmo7736 I don't think so friend but not 100% sure
R.H. .................this is the Holy Grail for us Ford guys still holds up after all these years !!!!!!! when it is done right it last !!!!!!!!
I don't think anyone on TH-cam does such good comparison testing videos as you do Richard. Great work.
Thanks 👍
It was interesting how even the HP numbers were considering the fairly large difference in port volumes. I will say that the TW head is deceiving in the fact that the port volume "appears" small. However with the relocated valve, the port is a bit shorter in length and that shows up as smaller, but the actual height and width measurements are quite comparable to the other heads. I was sure the Z304's would do better than they did just from the average of the flow numbers. I guess that's why we don't race flow benches!
Thanks Richard for all this work.
2e dont race dynos either. But we need flow benches, dynos, and to re-check ourselves against 20 year old data!
I remember these tests back in the old MM&FF days! I still have the copies somewhere
Hey Richie what is better flow or Compresión ? Thanks🇵🇷
Richard - I am not the only one, I am sure, but I am among those who look for and watch your videos every day. Thanks for making that possible.
I appreciate that
I'd like to see where a set of Cleveland heads 2V , Aussie 3V , 4V closed chamber would fall in relation to head flow, tourqe and horsepower in comparison with aftermarket Windsor heads.
If I remember correctly I seen a article from 1980's SVO part catalog the factory iron 2V open chamber Cleveland heads and street boss duel plane intake on a otherwise stock 302 H.O. long block was good for a 50 Hp gain.
Yes. Thats what 205 cfm ďoeß verses 165 çfm 9ñ à ß59çķ 50 4 bbĺ 285h 174 h0 àñď à 5948ñ99 1973 çàm.
V2 of the tables is SOOOO much better. Thanks for continuing to evolve and improve! Love it!
Richard you should do a eBay SBF cylinder head comparison. Procomps, Skip White NBK, Flowteck, and Pro Maxx. Would be great to actually see how these budget cylinder heads actually perform.
That would be pretty awesome
GT40P big valve (late model) heads with some light diy porting does pretty well and are dirt cheap
This is my 10th go around watching this shootout,,cant get enough of SBF Content
Thank you Richard!
I'm currently running a set of SVE heads form LMR they seem to work well.I just wondering who really makes them or copied from do you know?
Get what you pay for but I seen some fast fox bodies using Canfields and usually 400 bucks cheaper than afr.
For any man, this is a large body of work.
Uhhhh. I want those old Canfields. ....why doesn't someone make a really small chamber in a sbf head? I want to do a budget stock long block max effort ho engine. I have a set of gt40p heads I may mill or even angle mill.....or drop the big bucks and do 11r's
@@vrm86gt Sweet! How did I not know this......Now if only they would go on sale for 50% off!
You are my hero bro!!
TWISTED WEDGE STILL GOOD
Richard, narrow up the columns and increase the font size. Too hard to read, come on dude!
Why would someone dislike these videos
They’re probably butthurt that their fav head didn’t do so well.
LS guys
Would like to have seen how the often maligned cheapie offshore heads could have stacked up against the good stuff.
I’m glad this test was done with SMALL CAMSHAFT because when they’re done with giant camshafts it really SKUs what the head can do more power with less cam better the head.Car craft may have received the best 165AFR that ever was made lol
To really test the potential of the heads-the combo needs to support what the head can do (it needs more cam)
Happy Thanksgiving Richard. Thanks for giving us this great information. Best TH-cam videos!
Ya got out of many people’s money when you go to stroked engines, so put this or a clip meant for US who can only afford diy changes in our skill and budget !! Enjoy your videos but can’t afford the extensive cost of most .
these heads needed more motor
Have you had a chance to compare AFR Renegade heads to the original AFRs like in this video?
have not yet
I haven’t watched the video yet,,, But Brodix’s new IK series small block Ford head looks KILLER on paper for the investment. Your video here, and then releasing those heads, might just push me over the edge on finishing my 331 build,,,,,, If only i can find a set of short rods...
I heard tell of in the 90's a lot people put on 289 heads. raise compression around .9. If it was 9.5 pistons. With the heads on it. Be 10.4 in 1. Something like that. It was custom i think.
Ford had a SBF head with a 54cc chamber. Still had small valves and needed work. But it was a budget minded choice back in the day.
this is my go to for ford recipies. loving this content!!!!
Another Awesome video with lots of info.😬
You do an excellent job at listening to your audience! Thanks for organizing the data so we can better understand!
Have you messed with the more modern ford heads X2 or Z2? I'm really curious about the velocity vane Z2 heads.
The x2 is a renamed gt40x head. The velocity vane head is badasssss on paper but i too cant find any input on them.
Do you think those apr 185s would work well with a lunati voodoo hydraulic roller 282/290 on a 331?
yes
@@richardholdener1727 awesome thank you hopefully it all works out cause at altitude here in Denver but it's also going in a 2400 lb car so should fun thank you
I'd like to get a set of Canfields!
Awesome, dinner can wait.
Ordered the afrs today let's goooooo
The flow bench tells part of the story, but the dyno writes the final chapter! Looks like AFR does their homework a little better than most, another win. Especially significant when they spotted Canfield at least a couple percent on the compression due to chamber size, maybe 10 hp at this level. If I still had my ‘89 5.0 notchback I know which way I’d be going thanks to your endless energy, Richard!
Thanks for this. I've always wondered about my edelbrocks.
You know I have to ask:
With the battle between the TF and AFR guys still strong, what size TF heads? 170?
Those AFR 185 heads really impressed with good power.
THE TFS TW PORT VOLUME IS LISTED
They all perform quite well. So there’s a head for every budget. Good to see .
Richard , thank you for your years of testing parts . I always enjoyed seeing your articles in MM&FF ECT back in the day . THANK YOU FOR ENCOURAGING HOT RODDERS AND HELPING ANOTHER GENERATION LOVE RACING AND HOT RODDING!! 👍✌
My pleasure!
Sometimes the best head is the one you have. I have older twisted wedges, stud mount I got used, with 1.7 rollers on stock SD cam. Runs quite strongly in my light fox with a 308 bottom end.
they work very well
@@richardholdener1727 running speed density efi and a crane interceptor 2 for tuning. Remember that thing? It's been on a shelf in my house for decades.
best man for the job
would have liked to see the summary of hp and torque gains on a graph for each head. All in all a great video and with a lot of hard work changing heads and doing dyno runs. Much appreciated.
Much better chart !!!
Richard, you are the man Sir. Awesome videos.
I am currently assembling a 331 stroker motor ( with X303 cam) using World Products Windsor SR heads. Will you be evaluating those in this series? Just wondering if I need to open up the ports a bit before bolting them on. Thanks for all the info already provided and in the future.
I'll check
If I'm not mistaken the roush heads are victor sr heads with the roush name stamped on them
hey rich, have a stock block. want to get the best heads and port injection for it. plus roller cam and rockers. when the block blows up. I will get a stroker short block, transfer over the topend. what is your thoughts on what I should go with? working with an auto trans and I think I'm going to run 355 in the rear. please let me know if I'm on the right track or if I'm dreaming. I'm just a steerter and hit the strip in alska here twice a year. I'm out of the loop for the last twenty years. my focus was not on toys. just picked up 66' stang. WoW how things have changed. i like to cam out. that is old school now. everyone boost there motors so no one cams anymore. let me know if we can talk outside this platform. ty
If it didn’t lose too much compression I’d like to see a factory cleavland head in this test
Boss 302 heads are cleveland heads.
@@attitudeadjusted9027 I know but there was no boss 302 heads in the test
Australian 2 Valve is where it’s at!
@@attitudeadjusted9027 my point is I think the Cleveland heads have bigger combustion chambers they were a canted big valve head and used different pistons
@@MissionRestomod those heads are too rare in American
Err ma gurd
Did the intake match the head ports or did you need to work it?
Afr 220
What size cam do you recommend for the street with a 331 stroker with max lift of .600 ? im running 219/219 howard's with .578 lift with 1.7rr's
224/232
You guys need to audit a university fluid mechanics class. It'll give you more 'tools' to understand how/why fluids change their flow characteristics. There can be a lot of math to fluids, but just understanding bernoulli's equation and the continuity equation only needs algebra and explains a lot.
which guys need to understand this equation?
No mention of Reynolds? 🤔 Bernoulli is idealized. Intake port dynamics are not. What youre suggesting takes a whole .003 seconds to find on youtube...no need for a uni.
@@HerrPoopschitz Reynolds is a little more advanced and nuanced, save that for if/when you look into Darcy weisbach or chezy, etc equations.
@@richardholdener1727 I was thinking between you and the guys on engine masters. Not being a troll, just suggesting ways to get more 'tools for the toolbox' and better understanding.
Bernouli will explain the interrelation between port velocity and pressure, and continuity equation will relate cross sectional area to velocity.
There are other ideas like headloss equations and discharge coefficients and yes Reynolds, but they get a bit mathy.
Have you ever tested the Ford Sportsman cast iron head. Years back rumors said the brand x guys were complaining because these head were outflowing anything from GM? I know they use an unusual exhaust port layout not used by other sb ford heads.
Nice
The graphs with all the measurements for display is a really nice touch! Love the effort put into each video.
...The who's who of 5.0 heads! Great video man! Thank you! Love watching this stuff all day long!
Mid lift flow. Yesss!
Trick flow army here. My hands down favorite
When do you need to start considering race gas in this kind of combination, or in 351 Windsor? At what compression ratio do you typically need more octane than pump gas?
That is a very common question people have . Too many variables for a blanket comp ratio. Your camshaft makes the most difference. Static compression and DYNAMIC compression matter . Run both specs on a calculator to see where you are. The general consensus is 8.5 to 1 or under dynamic compression or under 180psi cranking compression is pump gas friendly. I have a true 10.55 to 1 in my Windsor on my channel on pump gas , i have pretty large cam specs though.
Cold cranking compressions above 180 psi at sea level will need 95 octane.
@@deanstevenson6527 Running over 210 psi for years on 91 octane pump gas , way too many variables to say everyone can do it or should do it . That's why i said to keep it under 180psi
i really liked this one.i guess i'm from the old, maybe too old school being 73, it sure looks it could be fun, but i dont even remember what a E7TE-CA is can you HELP . i was by my gnd son and could't help. thanks
e7te heads are the 5.0L Ford factory heads
Awesome test
We run the Brodix heads with CNC porting. Do you have a guess’s as to what difference in flow numbers there might be with CNC porting?
The CNC program was done by Lance at Craft performance. He does great work.
Awesome video! Loved seeing these tests in the old MM&FF and others back then. I do have a question though. Did you ever try running 1.7 rockers at any point with the 274 HR cam with the 333ci? How much would that effect the duration and lift? I actually have a nearly exact build about to go in my 86 GT, 333ci with 274hr and 1.7 rockers, AFR 185 Outlaws( I think same except emissions) and a TFSR intake. Curious how much difference the 1.7s could make...
they add lift, about 2 degrees of duration-sometimes add power
Your knowledge is awesome. Love you man
All you need is boost!
hi Rich love your video, im running a stroker 351c with the original quench chamber 4v heads , was thinking of up grading to aluminum aftermarket , do you have any tests on these ? thanks
only on the 400M and CHI 3V
👍👍👍👍👍👍
I left a comment in part 1 asking about 205 11r heads on a windsor. I see now that the heads are going up in quality/performance in each video. Love the info dump in all of your videos. Very educational and easy to understand with basic engine building knowledge. Thankyou for all your research!
11R was not out when this test was run-they are great heads-I have tested them since
Good stuff!
I'm still offering up a 4.9 i6 thats ready for boost if you want to show what they can do
I do but I want to start with stock
I "inhereted" a hot 88 Mustang due to a suicide. It has World heads but they appear to be cast iron. Any clues to what I have before I tear it down? It runs great when the computer and fuel pump cooperate. Which is not very often.
WORLD MADE WINDSOR JR AND WINDSOR SR
@@richardholdener1727
Ok, thanks. The special headers were a real pain in the ass but really unleashed a lot of power versus the unequal lenght short tube ones. My seat of the pants dyno says 40 more hp. My seat of the pants runs a lot of aircraft engines so I know what each HP feels like. I can feel a 5 HP difference.
@Richard Holdener This is probably a question you've gotten a ton, but I'm going to try anyway. I have a stock low miles '92 5.0 that I'm going to do H/C/I. I plan on using your favorite Comp XE274HR cam, and probably a well ported Explorer upper/lower intake.
My question is regarding heads. I would like to go with something like an AFR #1450 (205cc intake port). However, AFR's own literature about the AFR #s 1399/1402/1472 (165cc intake port) says: "They feature 100% CNC ported intake, exhaust & chambers, A356 aluminum castings and high quality components throughout, in addition these are the only AFR heads that are compatible with the OEM piston valve relief." Is this true, or are the AFR guys full of it? Will I have to have the pistons fly cut or replace them to run anything with a 2.08 or 2.02/1.60 valve combination?
I assume you've tested a bunch of these so you'd be one of the best to ask this question. Thanks in advance.
Brent
YOU DON'T NEED THE 205 HEADS ON THAT COMBO-THE 165 IS A BETTER CHOICE (THE BIG VALVE WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH P-V)
@@richardholdener1727 Wow, I got a reply with some GUSTO - and FAST.
Yeah, the reason I was thinking "big" on heads is I'd like a head to work on something a bit "spicier" in the future (stroker and/or boost). I do realize the 165 is an excellent head, particularly for a stock 5.0 short block, but it would be nice to not have to buy 2 sets of heads....kind of along the same lines as how your "favorite cam" works well on such a wide variety of applications.
So you're saying the AFR guys are right, that answers my question. Thanks again.
I want to see a Ford 302(stock stroke) with a max hydraulic roller cam. Head test showing the AFR 165 heads all the way up to the AFR 225 heads.
I am willing to bet that the 302 with the 225 heads will make the most power. Victor manifold, Holley Dominator carb, 11:00 to 1 compression, pump gas.
I think people undersize their heads on the Fords too often. Bone stock 6.0 lq4 makes more power with the square port heads than the cathedral port heads.
take a look at the port volume video
@@richardholdener1727 Just watched it, awesome! I'd still do the AFR 225 heads on a 302...because Merica!
@@richardholdener1727 Just don't drive part throttle 😀
Richard, have you tried the CHI heads for the small block fords?
yes-they work well
Hello Richard! Thank you for these videos! I will be using the same comp cam in my 331 build and I have a question. What distributor gear are you running? All info on line and even from comp cams support conflicts, with people saying steel, bronze, composite, melonized, etc.
Hoping you can help with real world knowledge! Thank you for any help you can give!
A FACTORY FORD GEAR FROM A HYD ROLLER CAM APPLICATION WORKS
@@richardholdener1727 thank you Richard! For informations sake, do you know what material these are made from? I have an old factory distributor, but I have not checked the condition of the gear... I have a new distributor coming with a steel gear that I will need to change out if this will not work. :)
GOT A SET OF CANFIELD 192CC HEADS ABOUT 10YRS AGO FOR $600.00. COMPLETE WITH FORD RACING ROCKERS AND FERREA VALVESPRINGS. GOT THEM ON A 308 WITH THE XE274HR CAM AND GT40 TUBULAR INTAKES.
Great comparison. Would love to see the average HP/TQ for each setup as well.
M.H. ...............in the mags average hp & tq were done .
Hey Richard on the 5.3 ls with the big comp cam did you use stock 7.4 pushrods or then you measure for the correct length pushrod thanks
we measure but the cam only changes things if the base circle changes
Thanks
Excellent, Great Job.👍
Thank you Richard.
Welcome!
What do you think of the NKB heads that have come out have you tried them?
I have not
I just but a set of 195 brodix on my 347 with a crowder cam single lift 512 can't wait to fire it up.
Mid flow exhaust determines power potential. Add a 1.7 exhaust valve to any head watch power climb if you can’t pressure out u can’t get the air in to make power
I love the work you have did and doing. Now I am going to ask a question that may be stupid to some people but here goes. All of the heads liked the mid to upper rpm cam. But with current fuel prices, are any of the heads good for low end and fuel economy with a little bit of fun?
Favorite serious period
I just uncovered a forgotten set of 351 D10E heads off a 1971 Bronco that I had stashed in the garage for 25 years. Guess I'll have them blasted, magnafluzed, re-valved and build them ...then store them back in the garage.
that's a lot of work for storage
Happy Thanksgiving Richard to you an your family!
Thank you for all your knowledgeable engine videos