Simple SB Ford chamber mods for 20 extra HP
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ธ.ค. 2022
- In this, Episode 55 of PowerTec 10, DV shows some simple, never seen before chamber mods for your SB Ford. The can be easily applied to the factory iron heads as shown here or the same tevchniques can be applied to aluminum heads as most if not all do not have the features described here. What are these chamber mods worth? Would 20 HP on a 302 surprise you?
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2019 "Flu" allowed me to read 2 of your hp books. I applied the porting, valve radius, etc, on 65 sm chamber 289 heads 1.90/1.6 ss. Also did your exhaust h-pipe 2.5" borla. Also made wings Cresent over each end of the "H" to create suction for scavenging. Alao mildly massaged the rpm manifold. Good lord it is a wild 302ho stock block ft, f303, short travel rollers,650dp, 1.625 hookers 3.0 out to 2.5 duals. Do what this man says!
I have ported probably like 5 sets of ford small block heads .I never touched the combustion chamber because I didn't understand what needed to be done to increase power. After watching this video a few times I have a good understanding of what needs to be done now. Thanks for your knowledge
The biggest restriction is the valve. When it's partially open it's really restrictive.
Fix those seats and bowl radius.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Well said,,,,,,,,,we are followers of the learning curve........decades ago this stuff was top secret.....If ya met a successful racer and he liked ya....you were fortunate to be in a possible learning curve......I'm 73......started reading [1965] hotrod mags ; as this was my only way to learn ; Imagine WAITING month to month for information...There were no race tracks nearby to hang around as a kid......I began writing down in a spiral notebook , every idea , phone # , addresses ; as to venders and parts.....Anyway ; today , if I knew Geom. , Trig , and Calculus ; I could probably pass a Mechanical Engineering exam......60 plus years of college,,,,Hotrod college ; learning all fundamentals of mechanics , terms , theory , welding , fabricating , electrical , electronic , materials , sizing , machine shop , blueprint reading , drafting coordinates , etc, etc, etc, ,,,,If I can apply it to go faster and longer I need to know it............the learning curve.......I value my extensive library as much as my equipment ,and hand tools......................
I developed two sets of 289 heads for David. One set was '65 the other was '66. They were similar but one had 1.94" valve the other was 1.85". They had similar max flow but the bigger valve had a fatter mid range flow curve.
I put 1.94/1.5 chev valves in a set of D8 heads, after bracket racing it for a year or two I tore it down and the pattern on the piston looked like it was washed bad with just burn around one edge. Didn't make more than 300hp. Shrouding I figured
I have a set of 70’ 351w castings. I think I want to try applying some of this along with a 1.625 exhaust valve.
@@NoFox_Given I never went that big on a sbf head exhaust. Nitrous motor?
How much of this is applicable to the GT40P head? What wouldn't you use?
@@servediocylinderheads possibly or Turbo, I just saw a video Ben Almeda did and it made a lot of sense
Merry Christmas All 🙏🏻🎄
Love the SBF content DV! 🏁
The best engine builder I’ve heard
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,One of the oldest still living.....................There are many masterly educated builders and racers out there..........The first for me was , William Tyler Jenkins.......r.i.p. Bill............then , Smokey Yunick...r.i.p..............If ya can't run with the big dogs ; Stay on the porch..........................education enables all................................
The mad scientist is at it again
He’s not mad, just slightly angry….. Nope, D.V. is the BEST!!
What's Holdener doing now?
Muuuah
Thanks for the video! Always learn a lot!
Great little bag of power tidbits. Merry Christmas.
I have built many Ford engines (mostly FE) with OE iron heads that appeared stock, one even on a dirt track engine that was allowed to compete in the early 90s because the tech guys were not all that wise on Ford stuff. The one that would be of note here is a 302 (306) in my little brother's 83 F-150 4x4. I used the E7TE heads & block that were OE installed. The rods were treated to 11/32" ARP bolts, & we used a crank from a 74 engine, partially because we had it laying around & it only needed to be polished while the one out of the engine needed to be ground 0.020 or 0.030. We also made it internally balanced. I did pretty much the EXACT same treatments to the heads, except for additionally filling in the "pocks" around the water passages with silver solder & installing 0.500" OD bronze guides & new exhaust valve seat inserts for the larger 351 4V valves used. I wish that we could have found a set of the closed chamber heads for the build. It would have made making compression easier. I still ended up with 9.7:1 (instead of what would have been 10.3ish) by modifying the dome on a set of forged pistons to make the incursion in the chamber less of an issue. The open chamber heads are probably a bit easier to unshroud the valves on, at least if I remember the shape correctly, although it has been around 35 years ago. It made my brother's day to take on vehicles that should have beaten him easily only to fairly trounce them. Most couldn't believe that there really was a 302 under the hood when he lifted it up.
Great vidja 🤙🏼. Merry Christmas and happy New Year. Much love
Truly fantastic. I really appreciate you sharing all this knowledge and experience with everyone. I learned a lot from this video alone.
Knowledge we need kept alive and known
The remaining pit marks around the water jacket port can be filled and sanded with JB Weld epoxy.
...............................DV knew that....................................................
Hi David, I tried checking your website for information about seminars but I think the dates are from 2017. I bought one of your books a couple years ago and am glad to have found you here on TH-cam!
Merry Christmas David!!
Another great video for the Ford guys ,maybe David you could do a video on 302 Cleveland Heads on a 302 Windsor such as the Boss 302 set up .As usual great stuff mate. Australia
How common are 4bbl intakes for 302 clevelands in Australia? Thinking that would be a good business opportunity, sending them to NA! lol!
@@lowrangeinnovascotia2930 302C shares the same block, pistons and manifolds as 351C
@@johnkraft7461 WHAT??? Is the 302C just a 3" stroke 351C?? Here a 302 is a windsor based engine and the C is different. Does the 302C have the thermostat housing in the intake like ours or is it in the block like a cleveland?
@@lowrangeinnovascotia2930 In the block. It is just a different crank with 3" stroke and 6" rods, plus a unique 56-58cc closed chamber cleveland cylinder head. 👍
I don't know how to do anything but a basic rebuild/refresh. But it would great to hang out in the shop and learn
great viedeo I like especially the mods on the Valve Cover side :)
Merry Christmas sir DV ,,,,, Chev rods !! Interesting,,,,, I’ve got a combo I’m putting together 306 Windsor 5.7 Chev rods with Chev
JE pistons
Excellent rod ratio
😊😊😊
I have two sets of heads ported by Valley Head Service in California many years ago. It would be interesting to compare them to DV's stuff to see how far the tech has progressed. Maybe even upgrade those. Cool info, David!
That's cool. I knew a guy that had a set of those on a 289 back in 82/83 in a Pinto. From the stock heads to those it was a huge difference. Everything else was the same. It was a bit of a handful.
@@Comet-hn3gm Although I'm immersed in Cobra Jets, I still love the sound of the little engines at rpm's. I do have a near-mint Arizona native '72 Pinto, but I think I'm going to see about building a Factory Five Daytona next year for the 289's. My '67 Comet is a Cyclone S-code 4-speed convertible, was 390 now 410.
@@413x398 Mr. 428 good luck with your Factory Five project! I've always wanted a roadster myself, but I ended up buying a completed Pacific Roadster Cobra kit car in stead.
@@johnflett2531 It remains to be seen if FF can deliver a complete kit, what with this supply chain malarkey that has been foisted upon us.
Man, that's interesting stuff. Thanks
Thank you so much for your information!
I remember doing the radiused valve edges on my single carb Honda CD 175 after reading an article in Motorcycle Mechanics (probably around 1974)
With several of the other things in various articles it made a huge difference and would make front end go light when changing from third gear into top around 60mph.
For a 'ride to work' bland bike it was quicker than the twin carb CB175. Lasted a few years until I did in a big end chasing a Suzuki 500 across Salisbury Plain on the way to Stonehenge.
Pretty sure it was articles you had written way back when?
to the viewers: up your playback speed to 1.5x
great vid.
Excellent!
Thanks David
Merry Christmas everyone
Brilliant tutorial thanks David. Will this practice work with a straight 6 cylinder English Ford engine ( 1963 Zodiac ). Many thanks, Chris Hill
Happy Christmas David, just a thought, do resonators on newer car and truck exhausts act as an expansion box?
Nice! I actually have a set of '65 289 heads that I could reference for this video.
Sometimes when they tap the plug holes they leave about 2,3, maybe 4 threads past the plug, nota full circle , only part of the thread in one side, I like to remove the thread' make it smooth, it's a good place to get a hot spot, I just can't leave the 1/4 threads in the chamber, just like obvious imperfections in the ports on any engine, if I'm there I want to smoothe it up!
I would love to see some FE stuff!
How about the 351c closed chamber head? Should I do the same smoothing on the "plateau" as you did on this head? Also, why are flow balls $200 a set? They're ball bearings with a stem welded on. Did I miss some major upheaval in the ball bearing commodities industry?
David, I love these videos. How do you feel about the Pro Maxx SBF180 cylinder heads? I'm looking at them and they look like they have that scavenging recess.
I saw a show on PRI where Ford performance is contacting to make some of its old engines. 289, 302 at least
@David Vizard: A head shape or better a combustion chamber shape is what it is. So if one grinds away material how does he compensate this loss?
Will he cut a bit of the seats so that the valves lay deeper but the chamber wall is not hollow?...then he must cut some of the valv stem too Ill guess to compensate valve spring tension (?).
Or does he skimm more of the head? ...which is not always possible.
Merry Christmas Everyone! 🎄🎁
Merry Christmas
and to you as well!
Merry Christmas David. How do you figure out what size of flow ball to use?
Listen carefully
Any idea how much you can shave off a E7te head to make the chamber smaller or how small you can make it? I have been restoring my grandpa's 95 f250 single cab rwd that was given to me. It came with a 351w. I got a scat 11.8:1 408 fully forged kit for it and I had all intentions on putting aluminum heads on it until I cam across D.V and Ben Alameda. You both put out great content not to mention (FORD) information. Before I go to aluminum heads. I want to see if I can reach my or come close to my 500ft lbs goal. I haven't seen all of your videos yet. However i am interested in knowing how to choose the size of cylinder head. I am interested in the AFR 205. AFR is telling me the 180 and the speed shop said I need the 225s. Thank you for your time Sir. Be sure to like an subscribe 🔔
GLYPTAL 1201 RED is the paint DV is talking about.
T.S. RACING
Genius but agree with him on the more little things that you are doing, the more gains you are going to get and more that you are able to add up. Are you doing to turn down 15 little gains of 5 horse power on the top one big one for 25?
What’s a good cam to go with them heads, if I get Charlie to cut mine, for a 67 fairlane convertible 👍🏻
I would like some tips on a bbf
VIEW FROM BRAZIL.
David, I'm getting ready to dive head first into E6 heart shaped cylinder heads. Many say those are junk but I say no because of your mods that can be done to them. What do you think? I'm going bigger intake valves 1.94 to a possible 2.000" LS 8mm valve's and 1.585" LS 8mm exhaust valve's
I very much agree with you. These heads are Not junk, but the best all around OEM head for me.The E6TE heart shaped combustion chamber heads produce a high rate of swirl/turbulence that the E7TE can't. I've had thee best luck eliminating detonation on my turbo 306 using E6 heads over E7, gt40p, or gt40 heads. All heads being ported the same. I believe its because of the swirl/mixing characteristics from the heart shaped chamber. PS. 1986 is the only year I've seen E6 heads on mustangs and normal passenger cars too. On top of what the great Wizard Vizard has done, I also lay down a used (because it's been compressed and "flattened") head gasket on the head, and scribe a line around the sealing area. I use a dremmel to radius/round off the sharp edge all the way around the head gasket ring area on the head up to this scribe line. A lot of heads have a sharp protrusion here, sometimes a 1/16' up to an 1/8' inch. I also grind down/blend the edge on the squish to the chamber. Losing a tiny amount of compression from making chamber slightly larger is a small trade off to a better flowing, more efficient, way less chance of detonation combustion chamber. This secret has made a huge difference for me in avoiding the dreaded pinging, also works well on NA high compression engines too. No matter what brand.
I have ported a pair of E6 heads many years ago, probably about 1990. I bought a 86 police package 86 coupe that was never used by law enforcement. It was never drilled and chopped. I had been porting factory Ford Windsor heads, since about 86, I had done numerous 289 and 351W heads, tried a lot of different things with valve jobs, work on the valves ECT. Then I got the 86 coupe, drove it stock for a year or so, then tore it down, and ported the heads, and lower intake, I had no way of cutting open the upper and welding it back together back the. I have since cut open many 5.0 intakes, ported them and welded them up.
That little 86 coupe, with a stock cam, ported lower intake, opened up the throttle body side of the upper intake, ported the throttle body. I made my own traction bars, copied Lakewood's old slapper bars. I put some 4.10s in the rear, made my own headers, off road H-pipe, Flowmaster mufflers. That car, with a 2.95 first gear X spec T5, would get between 26 to 28 mpg overall fuel mileage, I drove typically 85 mph to 120 mph, most everywhere I went, back in those days. I traded that car to a buddy, who drove the car 90 to 95 mph, 98% to 99% highway miles, and got 29 mpg out of the car. He did not believe me that the car would get that type of fuel mileage, until he owned and drove it. I had the car running 12s, on the street, I rarely lost to anything I crossed paths with. The car would move, even with the horribly restrictive intake. I have been wanting to build another combo, with another pair of those heads, for years now. I used stock 1.78, and 1.45 valves in the heads. Most all of my ported factory iron heads, I stuck with factory valve sizes. Mainly did not want to spend the money on getting the heads cut for larger valves and then having to pay someone else to install them.
Now, I am looking at building another engine, I specifically want to use a factory iron head. The factory iron heads, I have ported, that I like are the 65 289 heads, those are the only 289 heads I like, then the 69 351W heads, then the 86 H.O. head, then lastly the GT-40P head. I have made good power with the 86 truck heads/E7 predecessors. My first thought for this next build, has been the P heads, my last two builds I used P heads, with stock valves. I used the same heads for both builds. The first build, I got 324 whp, and 324 wtq. The second build with the same heads, went 330 whp and 340 wtq. I currently have two sets of LS titanium retailers for beehive springs, for use with either 7mm or 8mm stem valves. I plan on using those retainers and hopefully some 7mm stem valves for this next build. Lately, I have been really considering going with the 65 289s. But then start thinking about the 86 H.O. heads.
The 86 H.O. heads have a lot more potential than most realize, but to make them work, you have to work over the chambers, or you will get poor results. If you get on the internet and read on all of the Mustang forums and groups, I am the only person who ever speaks positively about the 86 heads. Because nobody else follows my direction and properly works over the chambers. Those chambers have a lot of metal where it's needed to shape them how you want them, and still be small enough to make good compression. But I can keep pointing that out, and guys will still say I am full of shit, those are junk heads. So remembering that, I keep wanting to build another pair, and use them in a combo, where I throw a lot of what I know into the whole build.
I would not a 2.00" intake valve in any factory iron Windsor head. More so, in the 289s, 86 H.O.s and the GT-40P heads. All of those heads the chamber is close to the intake valve, one one side or another, when when the valve is open. That is something you need to look at, on all of those heads. I would probably go with a 1.84", to a 1.90", at the most. I saw where Ben Alameda said to use some pretty big valves, more so on the exhaust side. To use a 1.625" exhaust valve, you would probably want to start with a 69 351W, E7 or a GT-40, or GT-40P head. You would need to remove a lot of metal to get good results with either a 289 head or a 86 H.O.. I understand Ben was taking about using those large valves to move the valve seats farther outwards, so you can reshape the short side radius. He has a point there. It would be nice to get my hands on multiple heads of each casting and try his ideas, along with mine. Then probably blend somewhere between mine small stock valve work and his big valve work. Picking up flow by improving the short side radius is a good thing on the factory Windsor heads, but if you put a valve that winds up with lots of shrouding, because of it's size, then what you gained by improving the short side, might not ever be seen. I have been keeping all of this in my head, when trying to pick out a head to use. I really think I need to track down a couple pairs of each of those four different heads, then spend a good bit of time experimenting on them.
Do you have any experience with the 4.9 Ford straight six. And advice on increasing low end torque. And do you know of any aftermarket heads.
Boost. Honestly, the 300 is already tractor like in torque production.
Anyone know how far the valve spring seats need to be machined?
Can you do the same thing to afr 185 heads?
Mr. Vizard. I'd like to incorporate your techniques on a 1964 Ford 260. I'm aiming to squeeze more torque from this small block for a vintage look rather than moving to a 289 or 302. So how do I contact your friend that cleaned up the stock bowls etc. on those heads in your video? Or do you do that as well?
# was on video
tulip ex? how about 30 degree intake seat with short cam
cost a packet to get done = do it yourself ? = just buy trick flow alloy heads = cheaper and better and lighter = and new so no competition for 1960`s engine work !
Has anyone in these chats got the E6 heads to perform? The chambers look to be of a favorable design. WIth the DV chamber work to unshroud the valves they may very well be a treasure, when currently they are looked over due to "shrouding" issues.
Hey David I have a set of 351w heads casting number c90e. Wondering how to get in contact with you to have you work on them
I would love to know the cc value of the chamber you wound up with on these modified heads.
I forgot that David doesn't answer questions.
About 56.5 on mine
Thanks! @@hotrodray6802
Do you have any tricks to help a 2nd generation small block Chevy LT1? My 1996 Buick Roadmaster sedan could use some help
Lots of spray
Small Block Fords are unique in many ways and the cylinder heads are towards the top of that list. Modern 4V pent roof chambers and even 2V hemi chambers are a very different philosophy
Merry Christmas, David. Thanks for another informative video. Many of these points will be applicable to any chamber.
One question. With your extensive experience how much of the improvement to a head that you haven't done before comes from simple observation and basic universal principles versus flow bench testing and experimentation? My own thoughts are that you would get about 80% of the improvement compared to an optimised head. What is your estimate?
Where would one clock the spark plug?
Richard Holdner just did a video on that. I think he came to the conclusion that it's not a worthwhile mod.
@@NotSure723 Well on an LS head it isn't anyway. An engine with a plug in a hole like this head it might actually make a difference.
Towards the intake and then Mark the plug for that cylinder and paint an arrow to where to stop
Use E3 and be done
Use the longest tip that will clear the piston and then Half gapping the electrode eliminates clocking.
Tests show the E3 or spitfires work.
So those heads are ‘65 heads? I’ve never understood why Ford was sooooo determined to put a crappy head on the small block.
Didn't take much to improve. I had worked '65 heads on my '68 Mustang, and shift point was at 8200 rpm with a Torker intake and 750 DP. My friend had a more serious build and shifted at 9500 with a dual quad Shelby intake in a '65 Mustang. Fun is where you find it.
@@413x398 Solid flat tappet ? Which valve springs did you use ?
@@413x398 which application ? I assume dragrace. I make endurance cylinderheads for 289 FIA approved roadrace .... those engines use mild 0.560" lift cams , flat tappet . Make roughly 430-437 hp@6700rpm with dual performer intake from e.g. Edelbrock and do that for 25 to 30 hours between rebuilds. Main problem in rpm is that either main bearing break out of the block after 5 seasons despite girdle or cylinder break off just below the deck . I wonder what hp you make at much higher rpm ??
You can only do so good once mass production and labor who don't give a shit (remember cars with factory installed cigarette butts?) come into the picture. There are hours of work in these techniques you can't replace with cheap sand casting.
@@chestrockwell8328 My engine had Engle zero-preload anti-pumpup hydraulics. My friend's had a solid. I don't recall the cam specs (we're talking 1975-1977 here) or the valve springs. Relatively low lift long duration.
I tried to buy these heads at his sale but missed them. 🤔🤔😲🙄
Super bargain.
Sadly soon all combustion cars and trucks including classics will be banned from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-(
In Germany the Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025
on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas station per city or county. Car washs will be forbidden too because they are climate killers, now they want to slow down all the gas station pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems, turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of crime here, called emissions and smoke crime.!!! (BABVVEN & TEBBVEN & BEFVO laws)!!
Time ro revise this??
Thank you, DV. v/r wh