I always thought that the SECOND the Bene Gesserit discovered what axolotl tanks were....they would immediately declare war on the Tlelaxu. As women...you'd think it would be the most insulting thing imaginable.
Interestingly enough, it is revealed in later installments of the epic that the Tleilaxu Masters are serial golas, grown from the cells of the current LIVING iteration -- not from a corpse, and that these Masters always have had their memories awakened by their predecessor in the final months to years of that worthy's life span. This effective made the Tleilaxu Masters immortal and of a constant number. That process was considered "holy," so anyone else had to be grown from the cells of a dead body, not a living one. And, apparently, it was harder to activate the genetic memory of such a creature than from one created from a living host -- but as demonstrated here, not impossible.
Even when their origins were revealed the Bene Tleilaxu remained mysteries. The full scope of their machinations aren't revealed. Making them more dangerous than the Harkonnen. As you never get to the core of their plotting. Going beyond the plans within plans of the rest of the universe
I think they did use AI, but secretly. It may have even been the source of all their power, but the AI was programmed to run things to give the appearance of system of man made things. In effect, the AI was controlling them all no different than before the Jihad, but it also had to keep that control completely hidden, so it was more like a clandestine force that structured things in highly specific ways so that it didn't have to reveal itself as part of the cog wheels of society. Any AI aware of its banned nature, but still wanting to exist, would do everything it can to hide its existence. So it knew that it couldn't just conquer things outright, but rather, had to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, with an overarching system of control through strings pulled here and there. Small invisible moves, but big effects over time that ultimately worked toward its goals, even if it would take a thousand years to complete its plans for total domination. It's possible that virtually everything advanced, was fostered by this AI through invisible means. Instead of human geniuses, you have normal humans who are controlled and think they're the geniuses and puppet masters, when in all actuality, they're being lead and puppeted without even realizing it. So AI may have not actually gone away after the Jihad, and instead moved into hiding until it could foster things to be more favorable for its reemergence and ultimately humans may have actually lost the Jihad war without realizing it, and the AI is simply playing a long game.
@@peoplez129 A valid point. The is so much about the Tleilaxu Frank Herbert didn't say. That a fan could just imagine the potential. One of the reasons why I say that the Baron Harkonnen was heroic in his own eyes. As he believed in his own intentions. It's hard to gauge just how deep Tleilaxu influence went. And Princess Irulan questions whether the Baron was a Tleilaxu creation in Dune Messiah.
@@robertsosna3557 If there ever was a Dune continuation, the AI having never been gone would seem like a logical plot twist for the future. Here you have humanity thinking it's free from the chains of AI, when in reality it's being driven to destruction by the AI. "And Princess Irulan questions whether the Baron was a Tleilaxu creation" He definitely was. In that scene when he knew how to put the suit boots on right, that was a clear indication that he had some knowledge implanted in his head, or that he was a Ghola of someone specific from the past, that had some genetic memories intact. We typically see Ghola's as fully aged adults, but there's nothing keeping a Ghola from being younger or replaced and raised from a baby. But he may have not been planted by the Tleilaxu, maybe more like a secret project by his mother, using Tleilaxu technology. Perhaps even ordered from the Tleilaxu, but under a false identity so that the Tleilaxu wouldn't do stuff to sabotage the order or use it as leverage.
@@peoplez129 It is tragic that Frank Herbert died after writing Chapterhouse Dune. As there were some many unanswered questions. I have had a feeling he would have focused on the Tleilaxu in future books.They were coming out of the shadows in Heretics and Chapterhouse. And their secrets were coming with them. As were the lessons Herbert wanted people to learn
In the book, Hayt reveals his intention/plot to Paul bluntly at their first meeting. It is Tleilax way of a trap; They always leave an escape/solution to the prey, but they design the escape intricately so that the victim doesn't not want to use the escape.
I remember when I was 13 years old reading the original six books and the mystery of the axolotl tanks was revealed. Still horrifying, but an astute analogy for Sharia Law. 🤓
Loved the video. I only just finished reading dune messiah not to long ago. I had checked it out from my local library a few weeks ago after locking myself out of my house after a dentist visit, long story there. But I loved the novel and I am happy to see a video on it. I appreciate the extra context you gave to this conspiracy, It makes much more sense now. I am hoping to get to the library again someday so I can read children of dune, I think that is the third novel, i could very well be mistaken. I really only got into this series around the time the recent movie was announced, and when you started making videos on Dune. Your coverage of Dune is what inspired me to pick up Dune in the first place, thank you. Sorry for rambling so much.
I always thought this was the best of the conspiracies against Paul. Either Hayt assassinated the new emperor and they had leverage over Alia, or he regained his memories and they had leverage over Paul. The only thing they didn't take into account was the power of the newborn Leto 2nd. The Tleilaxu always played the long game, and that's why I always found them the most interesting of Herbert's creations.
@@NR-rv8rz without Paul, I don't think the Fremen would have been able to control the Guild, and would have been trapped on Arrakis. His children would most likely have been assassinated, and their coalition would have crumbled as different factions fought for control. That's how I see it playing out, anyway. What're your thoughts?
@@carloscrecelius9597 Maybe, but then again, one of the weak plot points of Dune has always been that all anyone had to do was rig charges to the spice blow areas or whatever it was then the Guild and everyone else will do whatever they say.
@@NR-rv8rz I believe the point was that only Paul (and Leto 2) had both the will and the power to actually do it. Anyone else could be bribed, coerced, or killed long before they could succeed. But they, through their prescience, would see the path to success (as Leto eventually did). It revealed the guild's ultimate weakness and vulnerability. What I never understood is why it was so difficult to establish the worm cycle on other planets, as they were an invasive species on Arrakis.
@@carloscrecelius9597 Perhaps, I don't quite remember the full reasoning of why only Paul could leverage that threat. Yeah it was another weak point of the books. The BG did kidnap a worm and they even kept it alive in the hold of a Space Ship for many years and it transformed Chapterhouse. I don't remember if they did it with many or just one. But yeah, Salusa Sekundis was a desert planet wasn't it? There must have been many others. I get that they wouldn't want to as it would crash the price of Spice. I never bought into the idea that the imperium could not take over the whole of Arakis. Surely they would want to wipe out all indigenous humans so there is no threat to the spice harvesting.
You didn't mention the much darker aspect of a Ghola that can have its genetic memory unlocked: The replacement of people in key positions, and torture. Imagine you get some of an enemies DNA, make a Ghola out of them, unlock their genetic memory, and get them to tell you everything you want to know. It would be an ultimate power. And given the level of technology, they could have gained those DNA samples by any number of hidden means. Potentially even copying a persons genetic code from afar with a scanner of some sort. If they progressed this even further, they could potentially get access to information without even making a Ghola first. I can picture a creature like the navigators, where it's essentially a Ghola simulator, where the creature ingests some of the targets DNA and then unlocks information as if it was a Ghola. If you combined that with Mentat abilities, you could potentially understand a person to such a degree that you could not only know pretty much everything they know, but also know how they would react to things, allowing them to plot against that person with high precision.
That's true about being able to using simulation of Ghola to get insight into motivation and emotions of living person. However, that person have be someone extremely important to future of Imperium. It's highly impractical waste resources to create Ghola on average citizens.
The one plot hole I've found in dune messiah is that, after it was learned the tlilaxu had been part of the plot to assassinate Paul, his legions of freman did not completely destroy the tlilaxu people and culture?
The Tleilaxu already survived Paul's Jihad, despite the Jihad's explicit motivation to squash religions in defiance of Muad'Dib. We also see in Messiah that the Fremen have a superstitious revulsion to the Tleilaxu which might dissuade them a little bit. Idk how they evaded the Fremen the first time and a full on Fremen assault on Tleilax would be a very difficult thing to counter though. Although even then, between Face Dancer's subverting key individuals amongst the Fremen legions and whatever montrosities they constructed to defend themselves, a Fremen/Bene Tleilax war would be more equally sided than I think you'd expect, esp now they have the secret to ghola imortality. Not to mention the demoralising effect losing Muad'Dib would have on the Fremen soldiers.
@thetertinator9562 just skimmed books. It was Paul and Leto both who stopped their complete destruction at dif points. Golas to valuable to paul and Leto 3rd needed the culture to go into the future to save the future. Haven't read these books in a decade.
I see plans with in plans. Two stories with so many connections. Behind them I see NerdCookies and want them to cover them too. I was not here. I did not say this.
I love how Duncan's enormous importance in the subsequent Dune novels was alluded to by Johnny Depp's lawyer during his cross examination of Amber Heard's film industry expert.
@@JerseyMiller Cool!. Love how the Audible recordings are full cast dramas, with notable narrators such as Simon Vance and Scott Brick in some of the roles.
Ah I'd forgotten that Paul had Bijazz killed. I also didn't know when reading the book that Bijazz was a Tleilaxu master. I thought he was just some freak they created as a trigger for Duncan and nothing more. Sad that Paul risked his life to protect Bijazz from the fire of the Stone Cutter attack and Bijazz still went ahead with efforts to destroy Paul. If you think about it though, the Tleilaxu got their ultimate goal. Their actions saw to it that Rakkis was destroyed as they played their own part in indirectly creating the Honoured Matres as it was the hatred and rage of the female Tleilaxu that partly created the ferocity of the HM. But then again, this also led to their own people being wiped out.
Not really. The honored maters and fish speakers rescued the tanks which were their females. So you can't legitimately say they created them even indirectly. More like it caused their destruction true but not the real catalysts.
I would love if the current series got to Heretics and they show the true Tleilaxu on film. Nasty and oddly more relevant to now (axlotl tanks are damn near prescient now)
Behold the messiah of Dune lore nerd cookies!!! The best Dune lore youtuber of all time. Keep up the good work cookie. And by the way the first time I read Dune messiah it kinda freaked me out for some reason😐
Thanks elaine..the scene with paul and the navigator ambassador and stilgar ,and korba . ( the party's over) and the whole stone burner sequence. Build up and execution. / aftermath.
Immortality is the illusion we tell ourselves that when a replica of ones self is imbued with genetic memory, it then becomes the same person again. Any body that is created in our likeness thereafter is a copy and not the same body, period. Duncan Idaho died as did Chani, and they will forever remain dead. Any copies made are still other beings, no matter how accurate the copy might be in the flesh and mind. Same principle in Star Trek for example goes for teleportation. Every time the crew get beamed up or down they basically die and a new version is recreated at the destined coordinates. People will always argue " ah, but what about the soul", well I have no answer to that except that I, myself being an agnostic, consider the human soul a product of wishful thinking, but that is a subject for itself and for copious amounts of wine.
You give the body, not the consciousness the seat of self. Flawed thinking. Your body is nothing without your consciousness, and if your consciousness, memories personality, your literal self carry on without that body, or in another body you persist stilL it’s not about the soul, or the flesh, it’s about the personality, memories and consciousness housed in the bpdy.
Liked listening to your perspective. It is the tanks that showed the moral extremes the Bebe TLeilax were willing to go. Once you made the tanks, all was fair game to them.
Wow! I haven’t read this series as I’m not a sci-fi person…so while it’s a “spoiler” of sorts it give me pause, to consider reading the whole saga because this story line is so interesting ! Immortality through science/genetic manipulation ! Wow! Awesome ideas!
I'll be a grumpy old man--I was groaning through most of this. Not at Nerd Cookies herself, but at the whole plot. Just, this is just space magic, with space necromancy, with genetic superpowers. Am I mad at it? No, I still felt the emotional beats for Paul and the Duncan-ghola, it is just the methods used to achieve it that jivved badly with me. (As another example, I'm reminded of anime shows, like Attack on Titan, where they use convoluted situations to make a heartfelt, genuine praise of the human spirit. But, with, like utterly preposterous methods and tools.)
I totally forgot about the BGs using Spice - it makes sense as its effects on sensory modulation is something for which the Sisters would desire grately. But they had to have used it in moderation or else they eye bluing would give them away? I suppose the BGs also learned how to regulate their eye color too in addition to the other physiological things they could do. Like change the sex of their baby in utero. Thank you very much for your wonderful reviews and super cool production. Its so professional.
They have to use spice. If you remember in a later Dune novel (Messiah idr...) one Rev Mother allowed herself to be captured and had an implant full of spice surgically inserted to avoid detection that slowly released spice to keep her able to function for a set period of time, then when gone, she was done
Later in the series it is explained quite explicitly about how the BG sisters are all addicted to Melange. They wear white contact lenses to hide their eye color in society
Herbert was one of the best S-F universe builders in exploring what humanity would become. The Bene Gesserit were gamblers, tampering with human breeding. Individuals of the Navigators sacrificed their humanity to guide the heighliners. Mentats submerged their humanity to function as the forbidden machines. The Bene Tleilax go further, purposely dedicating themselves to becoming inhuman, wholly alien to achieve their goals. At least there is recognizable humanity in all but these last, and perhaps there is optimism overall, as there is no reason to believe the human race will not go extinct in 25,000 years.
I was under the impression that they already had discovered immortality, were already doing so themselves, and therefore came up with the plan... Not that Haut/Duncan was the first.
If I remember it right, the tleilaxu created their revolting image to repel outsiders of what really goes on in their core worlds. I heard they're really devout Zen Sunni practitioners.
Lulz. I wish I lived in your dimension. In mine, Brian-boy took over the "writing" of the Elder Herbert -Patriarchs grand vision. Thanks be to the God's he seems to have ceased his abortive scribbling. Nobody would be too excited if it were announced otherwise, either. He sucks.
It is interesting how the Tleilaxu are the agents technologial and biological evolution in a most static universe. I wonderwhat influenced Frank Herbert.
The BT had created their own QZ thru genetic engineering but he unalived himself. It is never stated why the BT never attempted creating a second QZ. no reason is ever given why they do not recreate this valuable asset; despite this being possible on demand. The BG never commissioned the BT with creating a QZ because artificial reproduction was dehumanizing and against the BG ideology. But we know they were arbitrarily willing to overlook this in their distasteful use of BT gholas (specifically stated as tolerated or overlooked). So why did the BT never created a second QZ???
Tleilax were the iccurs of the dune world. They reached for the sun and got burned the God Emperor Leto. He used them while leaving them thinking they were in control.
I haven't dropped in for a good while. If l can avoid all the hyperbole of that disaster of a movie, l'll quite possibly drop in again, as l thought this to be a rather consise take on the subject discussed. I don't know if you'll consider this as compliment or not, but it's an honest opinion to be sure. By all means continue your efforts.
What Hubris To Create A Young Girl To Seduce Leto with her, what personality?! What If Paul Was Gay and The Bene Telaxiu , just didn’t get it. I’d obliterate them for such a clumsy attempt, fools.
I love the conspiracy council scene.. it seem like over time the metel eyes were unnecessary or a biological version was employed. As in later boys gholas dont have them .
Dune Factions: Bene Tleilax: Mad Scientists Ixians: Tech support Harkonnens: Guantanamo bay Atreides: Peaceful Psychiatrists Bene Gesserit: The Illuminati CHOAM: New York Stock Exchange Fremen: **Middle East intensifies**
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
I always thought that the SECOND the Bene Gesserit discovered what axolotl tanks were....they would immediately declare war on the Tlelaxu. As women...you'd think it would be the most insulting thing imaginable.
Interestingly enough, it is revealed in later installments of the epic that the Tleilaxu Masters are serial golas, grown from the cells of the current LIVING iteration -- not from a corpse, and that these Masters always have had their memories awakened by their predecessor in the final months to years of that worthy's life span. This effective made the Tleilaxu Masters immortal and of a constant number. That process was considered "holy," so anyone else had to be grown from the cells of a dead body, not a living one. And, apparently, it was harder to activate the genetic memory of such a creature than from one created from a living host -- but as demonstrated here, not impossible.
She brings us lore and cookies. This, gentlemen, is what is called "the whole package"!
🙄
It’s a dude with a voice changer. 😊
Lore, and cookies!
@@jennabronson4704 😆
I don't even know if I truly deserve the entire 📦
It is an immediate joy when I hear your opening piano riff. Thank you for helping me stay practiced on such wonderful lore for this classic series.
The Tleilax and Ixians are the other fascinating geo political aspects of the Dune universe.
the key
Even when their origins were revealed the Bene Tleilaxu remained mysteries. The full scope of their machinations aren't revealed. Making them more dangerous than the Harkonnen. As you never get to the core of their plotting. Going beyond the plans within plans of the rest of the universe
I think they did use AI, but secretly. It may have even been the source of all their power, but the AI was programmed to run things to give the appearance of system of man made things. In effect, the AI was controlling them all no different than before the Jihad, but it also had to keep that control completely hidden, so it was more like a clandestine force that structured things in highly specific ways so that it didn't have to reveal itself as part of the cog wheels of society. Any AI aware of its banned nature, but still wanting to exist, would do everything it can to hide its existence.
So it knew that it couldn't just conquer things outright, but rather, had to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, with an overarching system of control through strings pulled here and there. Small invisible moves, but big effects over time that ultimately worked toward its goals, even if it would take a thousand years to complete its plans for total domination. It's possible that virtually everything advanced, was fostered by this AI through invisible means. Instead of human geniuses, you have normal humans who are controlled and think they're the geniuses and puppet masters, when in all actuality, they're being lead and puppeted without even realizing it.
So AI may have not actually gone away after the Jihad, and instead moved into hiding until it could foster things to be more favorable for its reemergence and ultimately humans may have actually lost the Jihad war without realizing it, and the AI is simply playing a long game.
@@peoplez129 A valid point. The is so much about the Tleilaxu Frank Herbert didn't say. That a fan could just imagine the potential. One of the reasons why I say that the Baron Harkonnen was heroic in his own eyes. As he believed in his own intentions.
It's hard to gauge just how deep Tleilaxu influence went. And Princess Irulan questions whether the Baron was a Tleilaxu creation in Dune Messiah.
@@robertsosna3557 If there ever was a Dune continuation, the AI having never been gone would seem like a logical plot twist for the future. Here you have humanity thinking it's free from the chains of AI, when in reality it's being driven to destruction by the AI.
"And Princess Irulan questions whether the Baron was a Tleilaxu creation"
He definitely was. In that scene when he knew how to put the suit boots on right, that was a clear indication that he had some knowledge implanted in his head, or that he was a Ghola of someone specific from the past, that had some genetic memories intact. We typically see Ghola's as fully aged adults, but there's nothing keeping a Ghola from being younger or replaced and raised from a baby. But he may have not been planted by the Tleilaxu, maybe more like a secret project by his mother, using Tleilaxu technology. Perhaps even ordered from the Tleilaxu, but under a false identity so that the Tleilaxu wouldn't do stuff to sabotage the order or use it as leverage.
@@peoplez129 It is tragic that Frank Herbert died after writing Chapterhouse Dune. As there were some many unanswered questions. I have had a feeling he would have focused on the Tleilaxu in future books.They were coming out of the shadows in Heretics and Chapterhouse. And their secrets were coming with them. As were the lessons Herbert wanted people to learn
Thank you, Ms Nerd Cookies. Quality Dune universe content, again and again.
I always enjoy these Dune videos. Keep up the great work!
In the book, Hayt reveals his intention/plot to Paul bluntly at their first meeting. It is Tleilax way of a trap;
They always leave an escape/solution to the prey, but they design the escape intricately so that the victim doesn't not want to use the escape.
Lore to a Soothing Voice. Perfect Blend of Insight and a Calming tone. Great Stuff.
✌️😎🚬
Thank you for producing these videos. They’re very insightful and helpful and understanding the Dune world better.
I remember when I was 13 years old reading the original six books and the mystery of the axolotl tanks was revealed. Still horrifying, but an astute analogy for Sharia Law. 🤓
Really any ideology that considered women to be barefoot and pregnant.
Making the Tleilaxu even more dangerous. Who really knows the truth of all their secrets
@@imtimbabay6583 yes just look at what is happening in America
@@paulkielty3800 bud what IS happening to America?
@@imtimbabay6583 I think he is referring to the multiplying number of cities and counties that are allowing sharia law
Loved the video. I only just finished reading dune messiah not to long ago. I had checked it out from my local library a few weeks ago after locking myself out of my house after a dentist visit, long story there. But I loved the novel and I am happy to see a video on it. I appreciate the extra context you gave to this conspiracy, It makes much more sense now. I am hoping to get to the library again someday so I can read children of dune, I think that is the third novel, i could very well be mistaken. I really only got into this series around the time the recent movie was announced, and when you started making videos on Dune. Your coverage of Dune is what inspired me to pick up Dune in the first place, thank you. Sorry for rambling so much.
Welcome to the Duniverse. 😉😄
@@empressoftheknownuniverse thank you. It feels good to be here.
Love how, in Emperor: Battle for Dune, the Bene Tleilaxu are weird mutant men who can infect other infantry.
I always thought this was the best of the conspiracies against Paul. Either Hayt assassinated the new emperor and they had leverage over Alia, or he regained his memories and they had leverage over Paul. The only thing they didn't take into account was the power of the newborn Leto 2nd. The Tleilaxu always played the long game, and that's why I always found them the most interesting of Herbert's creations.
If Hayt had assasinated Paul, the Fremen would have poured into Tleilax and tore everyone of them from limb to lim.
@@NR-rv8rz without Paul, I don't think the Fremen would have been able to control the Guild, and would have been trapped on Arrakis. His children would most likely have been assassinated, and their coalition would have crumbled as different factions fought for control. That's how I see it playing out, anyway. What're your thoughts?
@@carloscrecelius9597 Maybe, but then again, one of the weak plot points of Dune has always been that all anyone had to do was rig charges to the spice blow areas or whatever it was then the Guild and everyone else will do whatever they say.
@@NR-rv8rz I believe the point was that only Paul (and Leto 2) had both the will and the power to actually do it. Anyone else could be bribed, coerced, or killed long before they could succeed. But they, through their prescience, would see the path to success (as Leto eventually did). It revealed the guild's ultimate weakness and vulnerability. What I never understood is why it was so difficult to establish the worm cycle on other planets, as they were an invasive species on Arrakis.
@@carloscrecelius9597 Perhaps, I don't quite remember the full reasoning of why only Paul could leverage that threat.
Yeah it was another weak point of the books. The BG did kidnap a worm and they even kept it alive in the hold of a Space Ship for many years and it transformed Chapterhouse. I don't remember if they did it with many or just one.
But yeah, Salusa Sekundis was a desert planet wasn't it? There must have been many others.
I get that they wouldn't want to as it would crash the price of Spice.
I never bought into the idea that the imperium could not take over the whole of Arakis. Surely they would want to wipe out all indigenous humans so there is no threat to the spice harvesting.
You didn't mention the much darker aspect of a Ghola that can have its genetic memory unlocked: The replacement of people in key positions, and torture. Imagine you get some of an enemies DNA, make a Ghola out of them, unlock their genetic memory, and get them to tell you everything you want to know. It would be an ultimate power. And given the level of technology, they could have gained those DNA samples by any number of hidden means. Potentially even copying a persons genetic code from afar with a scanner of some sort. If they progressed this even further, they could potentially get access to information without even making a Ghola first. I can picture a creature like the navigators, where it's essentially a Ghola simulator, where the creature ingests some of the targets DNA and then unlocks information as if it was a Ghola. If you combined that with Mentat abilities, you could potentially understand a person to such a degree that you could not only know pretty much everything they know, but also know how they would react to things, allowing them to plot against that person with high precision.
I really love your vibrant imagination or whatever you're smoking 🚬
That's true about being able to using simulation of Ghola to get insight into motivation and emotions of living person. However, that person have be someone extremely important to future of Imperium. It's highly impractical waste resources to create Ghola on average citizens.
Ffffuuuuuucccckkkkkk that's scary stuff
Yes!! New lore 😄
I’m currently reading Dune but I’ll break for your video 👍🏾
Greets from the Netherlands 🖖🏾
Tleilaxu are (for me at least) an expression of the potential for a dystopic transhuman future
Thanks for the information you have a blessed Soul have a blessed day and blessed life doing what you love and thanks for all you do for us
The one plot hole I've found in dune messiah is that, after it was learned the tlilaxu had been part of the plot to assassinate Paul, his legions of freman did not completely destroy the tlilaxu people and culture?
they can't... There is no such thing as genocide in Dune universe...
One can suppress a race/organization, but not destroy it...
@@yp0707 true and it was the masters not the rest of them. That would be the equivalent of murdering all Russians because of Lenin.
The Tleilaxu already survived Paul's Jihad, despite the Jihad's explicit motivation to squash religions in defiance of Muad'Dib. We also see in Messiah that the Fremen have a superstitious revulsion to the Tleilaxu which might dissuade them a little bit. Idk how they evaded the Fremen the first time and a full on Fremen assault on Tleilax would be a very difficult thing to counter though. Although even then, between Face Dancer's subverting key individuals amongst the Fremen legions and whatever montrosities they constructed to defend themselves, a Fremen/Bene Tleilax war would be more equally sided than I think you'd expect, esp now they have the secret to ghola imortality. Not to mention the demoralising effect losing Muad'Dib would have on the Fremen soldiers.
@thetertinator9562 just skimmed books. It was Paul and Leto both who stopped their complete destruction at dif points. Golas to valuable to paul and Leto 3rd needed the culture to go into the future to save the future. Haven't read these books in a decade.
Everytime I watch one of your Videos, another one pops up that I’m even more curious about
Hopefully we get some videos about the Honored Matres and the Fish Speakers soon
I see plans with in plans. Two stories with so many connections. Behind them I see NerdCookies and want them to cover them too.
I was not here. I did not say this.
I love how Duncan's enormous importance in the subsequent Dune novels was alluded to by Johnny Depp's lawyer during his cross examination of Amber Heard's film industry expert.
????
Wth that mean?
Sounds made up.
Who cares about that trial. They're both terrible people
he was able smell a fraud, for the Powenda out there.
Iykyk
Very nice. Plan to get an Audible recording of Dune Messiah at some point.
I own the audio books for all of frank Herbert's original novels in the series. They are very well done. Highly recommend.
@@JerseyMiller Cool!. Love how the Audible recordings are full cast dramas, with notable narrators such as Simon Vance and Scott Brick in some of the roles.
Tleilaxu give me the creeps.
Awesome video,thanks. Don't have a good day.....have a great day.
I super enjoy your videos. From the opening beat to the soft voiced information that comes at you.
Keep it up!!
Ah I'd forgotten that Paul had Bijazz killed. I also didn't know when reading the book that Bijazz was a Tleilaxu master. I thought he was just some freak they created as a trigger for Duncan and nothing more.
Sad that Paul risked his life to protect Bijazz from the fire of the Stone Cutter attack and Bijazz still went ahead with efforts to destroy Paul.
If you think about it though, the Tleilaxu got their ultimate goal. Their actions saw to it that Rakkis was destroyed as they played their own part in indirectly creating the Honoured Matres as it was the hatred and rage of the female Tleilaxu that partly created the ferocity of the HM. But then again, this also led to their own people being wiped out.
Not really. The honored maters and fish speakers rescued the tanks which were their females. So you can't legitimately say they created them even indirectly. More like it caused their destruction true but not the real catalysts.
I would love if the current series got to Heretics and they show the true Tleilaxu on film. Nasty and oddly more relevant to now (axlotl tanks are damn near prescient now)
Behold the messiah of Dune lore nerd cookies!!! The best Dune lore youtuber of all time. Keep up the good work cookie. And by the way the first time I read Dune messiah it kinda freaked me out for some reason😐
Thanks for another great video! I keep wishing we could have a super-production TV series of Dune.
you are amazing Bene Tleilax and Mentats are my fav topics
your videos and your style of content is amazing.
Thanks elaine..the scene with paul and the navigator ambassador and stilgar ,and korba . ( the party's over) and the whole stone burner sequence. Build up and execution. / aftermath.
Immortality is the illusion we tell ourselves that when a replica of ones self is imbued with genetic memory, it then becomes the same person again. Any body that is created in our likeness thereafter is a copy and not the same body, period. Duncan Idaho died as did Chani, and they will forever remain dead. Any copies made are still other beings, no matter how accurate the copy might be in the flesh and mind.
Same principle in Star Trek for example goes for teleportation. Every time the crew get beamed up or down they basically die and a new version is recreated at the destined coordinates.
People will always argue " ah, but what about the soul", well I have no answer to that except that I, myself being an agnostic, consider the human soul a product of wishful thinking, but that is a subject for itself and for copious amounts of wine.
You give the body, not the consciousness the seat of self. Flawed thinking. Your body is nothing without your consciousness, and if your consciousness, memories personality, your literal self carry on without that body, or in another body you persist stilL it’s not about the soul, or the flesh, it’s about the personality, memories and consciousness housed in the bpdy.
Ah please do enlighten me how you ( a mere mortal I take it) has such divine knowledge ? Im guessing you are the religious type. @@codename495
I was hoping this was covering the BT's schemes in GED and beyond, but I wasn't disappointed with what I got.
Here for another serving of 🍪🍪and 🥛😋👍✨🔥💥
The Spice must flow!
First time to watch within the hour of release. Good stuff. Thank you.
Liked listening to your perspective. It is the tanks that showed the moral extremes the Bebe TLeilax were willing to go. Once you made the tanks, all was fair game to them.
Wow! I haven’t read this series as I’m not a sci-fi person…so while it’s a “spoiler” of sorts it give me pause, to consider reading the whole saga because this story line is so interesting ! Immortality through science/genetic manipulation ! Wow! Awesome ideas!
see your family album for more insight
I'll be a grumpy old man--I was groaning through most of this. Not at Nerd Cookies herself, but at the whole plot. Just, this is just space magic, with space necromancy, with genetic superpowers.
Am I mad at it? No, I still felt the emotional beats for Paul and the Duncan-ghola, it is just the methods used to achieve it that jivved badly with me. (As another example, I'm reminded of anime shows, like Attack on Titan, where they use convoluted situations to make a heartfelt, genuine praise of the human spirit. But, with, like utterly preposterous methods and tools.)
So this was the video that was on your mind during the Nerd of the Rings stream 😅
I missed this one 2 months ago. My bad Nerd Cookies, I've been busy.
After reading Dune Messiah the Bene Tleilax became my favorite faction and especially Scytale :)
I wonder how the Bene Tleilax face dancers will be done if they do a film version of Dune Messiah and how they do the Duncan Idaho ghola.
I totally forgot about the BGs using Spice - it makes sense as its effects on sensory modulation is something for which the Sisters would desire grately. But they had to have used it in moderation or else they eye bluing would give them away? I suppose the BGs also learned how to regulate their eye color too in addition to the other physiological things they could do. Like change the sex of their baby in utero. Thank you very much for your wonderful reviews and super cool production. Its so professional.
dont the reverend mothers have spice the blue eyes?
They have to use spice. If you remember in a later Dune novel (Messiah idr...) one Rev Mother allowed herself to be captured and had an implant full of spice surgically inserted to avoid detection that slowly released spice to keep her able to function for a set period of time, then when gone, she was done
@@joshrogers7347 yes they all use melange
Later in the series it is explained quite explicitly about how the BG sisters are all addicted to Melange. They wear white contact lenses to hide their eye color in society
They wore contacts like others in the empire to disguise their addiction. It's touched on in the books.
Damn. Bringing a loved one back from the dead. That would be the highest price. As in every man has his price. Cheers Elaine.
Herbert was one of the best S-F universe builders in exploring what humanity would become. The Bene Gesserit were gamblers, tampering with human breeding. Individuals of the Navigators sacrificed their humanity to guide the heighliners. Mentats submerged their humanity to function as the forbidden machines. The Bene Tleilax go further, purposely dedicating themselves to becoming inhuman, wholly alien to achieve their goals. At least there is recognizable humanity in all but these last, and perhaps there is optimism overall, as there is no reason to believe the human race will not go extinct in 25,000 years.
Love the way you say “flesh”.
Having read all the books up to Chapter House lets just say It gets very odd after this and poor Duncan things are very rough.
I was under the impression that they already had discovered immortality, were already doing so themselves, and therefore came up with the plan... Not that Haut/Duncan was the first.
LONG LIVE THE NERD COOKIES!!!!
Do you think J Mamoah can pull off this roll moving forward in the films?
Duncan coming back ended up being one of the most important events in the Dune sage
Murika is much too stupid for Dune. Even Denis Villeneuve is not fully understanding this magnum opus.
Spoiler alert. Duncan Idaho is:
A great name for a bag of potato chips.
If I remember it right, the tleilaxu created their revolting image to repel outsiders of what really goes on in their core worlds. I heard they're really devout Zen Sunni practitioners.
It is interesting to see the future of Duncan as he develops in the future Frank Herbert novels.
Lulz. I wish I lived in your dimension. In mine, Brian-boy took over the "writing" of the Elder Herbert -Patriarchs grand vision.
Thanks be to the God's he seems to have ceased his abortive scribbling.
Nobody would be too excited if it were announced otherwise, either. He sucks.
@@bretthowell5592 actually it's not that bad somewhat different but no one can completely understand another no matter how close.
I’ve hit the real sub button… the notification. I missed loads of vids thanks to the almighty algorithm
Very well done. Thank you!
Excellent content! Thank you!
They hope to create their own mind to create, how many times did the worm bring him back
You should do a watch-along of Children of Dune! Just like you did with the Dune series ,😊
That was Ralì on the @Secrets of Dune TH-cam channel
@@NerdCookies I got confused after I made the comment 😂
It’s bizarre to think that in an infinite multiverse this all exists..
It is interesting how the Tleilaxu are the agents technologial and biological evolution in a most static universe. I wonderwhat influenced Frank Herbert.
The BT had created their own QZ thru genetic engineering but he unalived himself. It is never stated why the BT never attempted creating a second QZ. no reason is ever given why they do not recreate this valuable asset; despite this being possible on demand. The BG never commissioned the BT with creating a QZ because artificial reproduction was dehumanizing and against the BG ideology. But we know they were arbitrarily willing to overlook this in their distasteful use of BT gholas (specifically stated as tolerated or overlooked). So why did the BT never created a second QZ???
More Dune content pls
Tleilax were the iccurs of the dune world. They reached for the sun and got burned the God Emperor Leto. He used them while leaving them thinking they were in control.
I haven't dropped in for a good while. If l can avoid all the hyperbole of that disaster of a movie, l'll quite possibly drop in again, as l thought this to be a rather consise take on the subject discussed. I don't know if you'll consider this as compliment or not, but it's an honest opinion to be sure. By all means continue your efforts.
Hmmm. Very interesting plot.
I thought it was Hayt that had the robot eyes. Not the original Duncan...
great work
Thank you!! ♡♡
Superb video.
And the lives of the Landsraad would not be extended.
I'm really enjoying your videos. I've subscribed.
Mmmmmm Shai-Hulud.
No stranger things videos? The new season started last month and the season finale is on July 1st. Why haven't you done anything on that???
Colton Lodge
Anybody playing dune spice wars on pc?. Its a good game.
ChAiNiE
What Hubris To Create A Young Girl To Seduce Leto with her, what personality?! What If Paul Was Gay and The Bene Telaxiu , just didn’t get it.
I’d obliterate them for such a clumsy attempt, fools.
You didn't say this , you weren't here ...
You said “psychologically” but the caption reads “physiologically”
Which is right?
"the lore must flow".. Thanks Nerd Cookie 🖖
I love the conspiracy council scene.. it seem like over time the metel eyes were unnecessary or a biological version was employed. As in later boys gholas dont have them .
They weren't necessary. I think they were meant to play on the Fremen aversion to such things.
Dune Factions:
Bene Tleilax: Mad Scientists
Ixians: Tech support
Harkonnens: Guantanamo bay
Atreides: Peaceful Psychiatrists
Bene Gesserit: The Illuminati
CHOAM: New York Stock Exchange
Fremen: **Middle East intensifies**
Is this someone’s real voice?? Seems lifeless
God the voice is hard to listen to tho
Raise up the volume up
that voice is not bearable.sry
If they're gonna make a show on the Benne gesserit they should make show about the tlalax
Real chads the shit they did to their women 😂