DUNE PART 2 - Biggest Differences Between The Movie And Book
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- The differences between the Dune Part 2 movie and book. Denis Villeneuve's Dune Part 2 has just been released in theatres and there are many differences between the movie and Frank Herbert's science fiction novel. In this video, I explore the comparisons between Denis Villeneuve's Dune Part 2 and Frank Herbert's Dune. What other differences did you pick out between the film and the novel? Let me know in the comments below.
Paul Atreides leads nomadic tribes in a battle to control the desert planet Arrakis. Dune is an upcoming epic science fiction film directed by Denis Villeneuve with a screenplay by Jon Spaihts, Villeneuve, and Eric Roth. The film is an international co-production of Canada, Hungary, the United Kingdom, and the United States. It is the first of a planned two-part adaptation of the 1965 novel of the same name by Frank Herbert, which will cover roughly the first half of the book. The film stars an ensemble cast including Timothée Chalamet, Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaac, Josh Brolin, Stellan Skarsgård, Dave Bautista, Stephen McKinley Henderson, Zendaya, David Dastmalchian, Chang Chen, Sharon Duncan-Brewster, Charlotte Rampling, Jason Momoa, and Javier Bardem.
#Dune #DunePart2 #DuneMovie
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:12 The Main Reason Behind The Dune Part 2 Movie Differences
2:56 Why Was Alia Atreides Changed In Dune Part 2?
5:06 Why Was Leto II Removed From Dune Part 2?
6:43 Why Was Count Fenring Removed?
8:41 Dune Part 2 Fremen Differences Explained
10:14 Lady Jessica Differences Explained
11:44 Dune Part 2 Ending And Chani Differences Explained
14:07 Water Of Life Scene Differences Explained
15:32 Where Were The Spacing Guild In Dune Part 2?
17:17 Why Was Thufir Hawat Removed?
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DUNE PART 2 - Biggest Differences Between The Movie And Book - บันเทิง
I breakdown the biggest differences between the Dune Part 2 movie and Frank Herbert's book. There are a few other changes mentioned in my 'Explained' and 'Biggest Questions' videos that I posted last week, so I'd recommend checking out those uploads on my channel too. But what differences did you pick out in the film and what was your overall impressions of the changes made?
What is a spice orgy?
@@LuisSierra42 great question
@@LuisSierra42think of it like the scene in The Matrix Revolutions(I think?) where everyone on Zion was celebrating and the camera slowed down showing everyone dancing erotically. Now add spice and an orgy.
@@ugoeze7360 Ah, you mean the rave scene in Matrix Reloaded. If we are talking about an actual orgy, then that's why it was cut, the movie needed a PG13 rating
Great breakdown!
You're the first reviewer I've seen mention the positive change to the attack on Sietch Tabr (and the removal of Leto II). It's something I think a lot of people missed, but it greatly improves upon the book. It really makes it seem like Paul's hand is forced and he has to reluctantly accept his terrible purpose and go south to drink the water of life. It also gives greater reasoning behind the final battle, and allows for build-up to the final battle, where in the book Paul just sees that the great houses are already there, and immediately attacks, and then the attack on Sietch Tabr happens offscreen. It's much less impactful in the book.
Another big change is the amount of Fremen that join Paul. In the book it's a bit unclear but it seems like it's just Paul's Fedaykin from Sietch Tabr who participate in the final battle, and the scene where Paul decides not to kill Stilgar only happens in front of a small group of Fremen. There's also no Great War council in the book (although it's mentioned a couple councillors showed up, but they're not really mentioned), so there's no feeling like Paul has united all of the Fremen on the planet.
In my opinion the confrontation between Gurney and Jessica in the book was pointless, as it had literally no consequence and any tension that was created was immediately resolved in a single conversation, and then it was as if nothing happened. But it is true that it may have been good foreshadowing for the following book.
I feel the same way about Thufir Hawat, as we don't even see him in part 2 of the book (just hear about him from others) and when he does show up he immediately dies. But it would have been good world building to see Thufir's training with Paul.
And the changes to Chani made a whole lot of sense to me, their connection seems genuine as Chani is literally the only person wo Paul knows who isn't a worshipper following a false prophecy (like the Fremen), a follower (like Gurney), trying to manipulate him (Jessica), or trying to kill him (everyone else). She's the only one who sees things the same way as Paul, so it makes sense that Paul would love her. He wouldn't want to be with a worshipper.
Another thing not mentioned here is that in the book the dream of turning Arrakis into a paradise is the idea of Liet Kynes' father, an offworlder. In the film, it's presented as an ancient prophecy, which I feel gives it more weight, and aligns with the Fremen's self-sufficiency and distrust of offworlders.
One of the biggest changes I noticed , which no one has acknowledged in the videos I’ve watched, was the elimination of Janis’s wife and kids from the equation. I was ok with it, because it helped showcase the more compelling love story between Chani and Paul.
After making the video and posting it, I literally remembered everything with Harah and was so bummed I forgot to include it. I feel the same as you do about that.
Agreed on both points. I'm not sure how audiences would have received that.
I think at least in having Jamis' children inherited by Paul, with Harah having died long ago and/or having more of a group of surrogate mothers taking care of them, would have made for a much more compelling induction of Paul into fremen culture. He basically just falls into a role of cultural and religious leader in a matter of a few months and there's not much friction in the process on a relationship basis. Really flattens a lot of the characters and also fremen culture - a culture that is the way it is for a reason
@@zelgkopitar8799 maybe I don't know enough about Liet, but I didn't see much of an issue with the change tbh. I'm just upset they dropped his (her) entire relevance in Part 2. So much that was built up in Part 1 was just forgotten in Part 2. It makes me sad because I found Part 1 really well done even though there were obvious omissions
You are absolutely wrong about that. In the book, Harah indeed physically offered herself to Paul, saying she was older, but still attractive and of value. And Paul demonstrated how much he loved Chani, by politely rejecting her. You are absolutely 180 degrees 100% wrong.
I think that reducing the time scale (to less than 9 months) takes away the incredible effort that it took for Paul to regain control of Arrakis. It seemed all too easy (learning the Fremen customs and language, organizing militias, disrupting trade, spreading the myth of the messiah, etc.).
I agree. As someone that has a lot of complaints about the movie though. I do kinda get why. Because they couldn't do Alia.. how are you going to have a 2 year old todler talking and acting like an adult? Even killing people. If they had a broader time scale then Alia would have to be included. But honestly, they could just have kept Alia a baby that telephatically communicated with Jessica and still have more time passing than less than 9 months
@@3choblast3r4 she was 4 years old when she killed the harkonnens
I'm massively disappointed they didn't show Paul using the voice against the Sardaukar. That was a really badass part in the book
Yes. They took away his strength in this version
And this was so much of what made the entire idea so cool to me. That's a Bene Gesserit voice, a Bene Gesserit invention that is being used in a way unpredicted by them. It's ironic.
Yeah, he really almost never used the voice at all. I can only recall one scene in the second movie
Yeah the lack of the voice was very telling of how rushed this movie was. But even still, they could have done a much more efficient job of incorporating book elements into this film. Disappointing.
@@do_it_for_content I feel this could have been a 12 episode high budget limited series. I'm re-reading the book and there is SO much stuff they excised, especially having to do with Mentats. In the movie we hardly have a clue what Thufir does or even what his name is. In the book he's clearly responsible for the entire family's security and he "struck fear into the heart of the emperor himself." A major aspect of the Harkonnen plotting against House Atreides was figuring out how to compromise Thufir's functioning as a mentat, because he is so good. The idea that there are people with elevated mental training instead of computers was generally underemphasized in the movie. Entire episodes could have been dedicated to the chess game that happens between Harkonnens and Atreides in the first third of the book, with thd Atreides knowing of an ambush but miscalculating where it's coming from, and why.
My only complaint really is that Jessica threw up. Her Bene Gesserit training gives her full control of her own body, it would literally be the last thing she would do.
I despise most of the complaints I’m reading here but you’ve got a solid point there brother.
It’s to remind viewers who watched Dune I that she’s pregnant. And it gives Stilgar a chance to reinforce: “water is the only thing that matters.” But yeah. I hated it too.
@@brandongrundmeyer7793I loved the entire film except the part after the battle where gurney and the fremen are burning bodies. After the film established that no water is wasted even from the dead
Hmmm, now that you mention it it was out of character and clunky, honestly I thought it was mostly morning sickness.
@@miguelvelasco4212 It was Harkonnens bodies, their ''water'' is toxic.
I think the removal of the space guild severely changes the world of Dune and the stakes of the story. Without any context as to how crucial spice is to the functioning of the commerce and governance of the worlds it is reduced to a simple resource to fight over like oil in the Middle East. We really never get to see how the choking of spice affects the key parties and leads inevitably to the conclusion of the film, drawing them all to Arrakis for the climax. The role of the Guild in the betrayal of House Atreides and their eventually having to flip to Paul's side to preserve their supply of spice I see as crucial to a full understanding of the weight of the events on Arrakis to the whole Empire.
The space guild is mentioned numerous times in the movies
They are barely mentioned in the first book. Basically no detailed info given about them. Don’t understand why people keep whinging about them not being in the film.
@@greywildgreen they also literally are in the movie idk what people are talking about. I watched the movie before reading the book and I was well aware of who they were
@@hankolson3845 It’s like people expect all the world building from all 23 books to be in these two movies when the movies only cover one book.
I think it’s better to tackle that in part 3, when the issue is already at hand and the plot against Paul is a central plot point.
I would mention 3 more differences:
1 - Jessica was made in the film a much more proactive force in making Paul the Muad’dib. In the book she doesn’t know he’s about to drink the water of life and in the movie she basically orchestrates it.
2 - The scene where Gurney meets Paul again is massively underplayed in the movie. In the book it’s a really touching scene (having known all that time that Gurney is with the smugglers) and it has some great quotes that weren’t used in the movie (Paul saying to him “here some of the things you’re not meant to see”).
3 - Stilgar was kinda made into a caricature in the movie. In the book Paul is indeed worried that he’s turning from a friend to a follower but in the movie his belief in the Paul/Lisan Al Gaib prophecy is completely taking over the character, stripping him of his leadership aspect. Javier Bardem is great though, really loved his performance.
The third point you made is so true. The second film literally turned Stilgar into a meme.
I totally agree with the stilgar point. literally makes me so sad
About #3, as we all know, a movie doesn’t have the luxury of time and space to convey a message that a book has. Stilgar was used as a figurehead for the believers of the prophecy and his leadership must be blunted to enhance Paul’s own ascendancy to leadership. (Chani represents the sceptical faction.)
@@user-xd8xv3ns9dI respectfully disagree. There are plenty of characters in the movie who are loyal followers of others without losing their own gravity as an authority figure. Stilgar could have been written to believe in the prophecy without becoming such a sycophant to Paul. Having Stilgar retain his gravitas would have enhanced the cautionary aspect, not weakened it. As it would have shown that even very strong men can fall victim to religious fairy tales.
@@user-xd8xv3ns9d They should have never had the anti prophecy faction. That's what forced Stilgar into the box of being a super religious guy that instantly believes in the Muad dib. And they also make him less of a leader. he has to ask some council in his sietch, permission to allow jessica and paul to live there. Anyway it never feels like he's radicalizing in the book. He's a hardcore believer from the start. The book stilgar believes, but he doesn't necessarily believe in Paul the moment they meet. Only after Paul fits the prophecy and does some miracelous stuff does Stilgar slowly turn more and more radical. Esp after Paul starts to change their way of life to suit his goals better (e.g. not challenging Stilgar because he wants Stilgar as one of his men)
But noooo .. They had to have Chani be too cool to school
The other main benefit of the lack of a significant time jump is (from a cinematic point of view) it helps illustrate Stilgar and the other Fremen factions' religious fanaticism toward Paul, owing to it happening over a shorter period of time.
I think a blind priest would have followed Lea Seydoux into her room.
Old married man here: yes.
One thing I noticed visually with Paul ending the Baron is that while he used his crysknife, not a gom jabbar, the method was the same as a gom jabbar, even to the reference of treating his body as less than an animal.
Knives are better. I loved that change.
The usage of the Gom Jabbar was to reduce him to an animal, which killing him with a crysknife doesn't.
Didn’t I teach you rookie, knives are faster.
@@SuperStella1111 Eh, it was ok. It was much cooler when he stabbed the knife under Feyd's chin during their fight. Also didn't like that Feyd fought fair and that he stabbed Paul twice very deeply.
15:30 First movie once mentioned Landsraad by name, when they asked dr Kynes if she is willing to testify.
I’ve seen the film four times so far
Wow!
Watched it twice and next week going to cinema for third time 😊
Nice man I'm going again today
Im going to see it in IMAX the 2nd time next week! Again, Im stoked!
Got my ticket to watch it again in 4dx
I was surprised Jessica didn't give birth in the movie, but then again having a 2 year spice child prophet fighting has a good chance of looking pretty silly in a movie.
I was wondering how they were going to pull off the talking baby. It worked in the book, but I count figure it his they'd do it in the film .
This is my favorite change from the book to the movie. I loved that.
@@GC3-4370 yeah I liked it in the book, but it would have looked goofy as hell in the movie.
but she was 4 years old at the end of the book
@@ryanmacharika3946 2 or 4 doesn't really matter that much lol
Yea, you can’t have a toddler killing Sardukar and the Baron. It looked ridiculous in the ‘84 movie and would be even worse in this adaptation.
When Paul took the water of life a great scene would have been Paul seeing the original Atreides declaration that the Harkonnens were cowards.
Alia Atradies got robbed! I hope she gets justice in Messiah.
I appreciate the blue with blue eye effects in this film. More realistic than the previous versions.
Yeah, like why didn’t they have that technology back in 84 right?
@@frodo322 in old film the and TV series it almost like the people had laser eyes 😆😆 like had light bulbs for eyes.
No, it was just as poor.
Tyvm for your insightful critique. I read the books every year for decades, each time noticing another detail of the story or another impactful line. I was so disappointed by D. Lynch adaptation and loved D. Villeneuve's fidelity to the intent of F. Herbert's work. I will be watching it next week and come fully prepared to changes and looking forward to the poetry that movies can bring. I hope it encourages many younger viewers to read the novels and learn from the depth of F. Herbert's vision.
Can't wait to hear your opinion of the movie after you've seen it. The vision has changed dramatically.
@@SageWon-1aussie Loved the adaptation: faithful to the saga and underlying message, satisfying to the readers and enjoyable to those new to the story. The visual, the sound track, the acting, the tasteful special effects were great. Glad a lot of the 'words' became camera, light, angles, colours, facial expressions and implied. It's a layered movie that those in the know will grasp the subtleties of and others might sense. It's intelligent for an audience allowed to know, ignore or get informed. Looking forward to how D. Villeneuve will handle the next part... and viewers surprises at where Paul is leading the empire, how and why.
@@isiseungella4688 When you said next week, I didn't realise you meant in the next ten hours.
This does not describe my experience at all, but then I really liked the depth of the book.
Glad you liked the movie, hopefully it will encourage people to grapple with the complexities of the book heya.
@SageWon-1aussie 5 days apart, different week. I wasn't sure which day of that following week we could drive to town. I don't live in a big city. There's is 1 cinema for the whole town.
Sorry, but the DV version is far less daring and interesting than the 1984 version. DV seems to want to make a bland, predictable, long winded turd movies. Part 2 just kept going and going and going...so boring. I did like the spice harvesters in the DV version, that was excellent....the rest, like the story telling, just bad.
even with all the changes the adaptation of the first book clocks to 6 hours. Tough I'd blame part 1 slow burn for not setting up some of the missing details.
I think the DV version is too long winded. It just goes on forever. Dude didn;t need 2:46 for part two.
This is the Thematic adaptation of Dune. And in order to portray the themes most effectively on screen, changes are necessary. Every great adaptation that captures the themes of the source contains such necessary changes, because literature and cinema are so inherently different.
The various adaptations all approach the source novel with different motivations, and as such, can complement and supplement one another quite well. The Lynch film, for what it's worth, captured the weirdness of Dune, the miniseries is very much the Story adaptation, and Villenueve is giving us a visually spectacular take on the themes of Dune, while also staying *mostly* true to the events of the book. So far, I'm absolutely loving it, and looking forward to Messiah.
Couldn't agree more
This movie has almost nothing from the book in it. The narrative portrayed in this movie was firmly rejected by Paul on the day Leto died in the book Herbert wrote.
Hollywood hack or shill for Hollywood hack... What's your preferred title?
Lynch's depiction of Alia wasn't silly, it was just faithful to the book. As far as adding the Northern v Southern Fremen conflict and the changes to Chani, 'interesting' and 'relatable' is code for secularizing the story for a modern audience.
"is code for secularizing the story for a modern audience" When Dune was released most westerners knew very little of the arabic culture Dune portrayed. They know rather more of it now due to blobalization and conflicts that affect them. There is no need to patronize a modern audience.
@@archvaldorand yet this movie does patronize the audience by deleting any reference to Jihad
If you don't think a toddler fighting adults is silly it's because you're ridiculous 😂
Great job summarizing the key changes. Those were the main ones I noticed. Hawat being removed made logical sense because I never bought into the idea of the Baron being stupid enough to bring a loyal member of Leto’s inner circle as his advisor. I also felt a big flaw in the book Dune was Paul having three male advisors that all started to blend together, so I understand why his presence in the first movie was lessened. However, it led to another problem I had with Dune 2 in that there were less Baron scenes and his menace as a threat was lessened compared to the book. His book scenes with how he subjugated Hawat increased his menace and cruelty.
My opinion is : l don’t care if the movie scenes match with the book or not .
I enjoyed watching it without comparing with the book .
It’s a great movie which has been made with a great director and I will be watching dune2 many times until the next part .
I couldn't agree more. As look at it captyres the spirit, the characters and the main story and then i can't ask for more. Especially with a book as dense and difficult to adapt as dune is
@@CortexVideos
Indeed .
I watched it immediately after re-reading the book and directly comparing it to the book, and even I think it was an amazing adaptation. There are things that were changed that were improvements upon the book even.
My dude, without the book there is no movie. It’s not possible to separate them even if you wanted to…Frank Herbert felt that he made a mistake in the way he wrote Paul. The character was intended to be seen as an anti-hero rather than idolized by the audience. In that way, the film does a nice job of using Chani to highlight this more nuanced depiction of Paul.
I don’t mind the changes because it just makes the book sound more interesting when you describe it to those who only saw the movie and enjoyed it
Everyone keeps saying chani was just his love interest , i would ask what book you read , she was a strong fighter who met challenges in his stead , they were the love story and the solid connection to pauls world , the book showed the strong relationship in the face of political obligation , "those called concubine history will call , wives",-Chani, Dune
I felt like the relationship in the book was hollow - there's a bit of flirting early on but it seems just physical, and then she treats him pretty much the same way as all the other Fremen, as the chosen one.
I like how in the film Chani is the only one to see things the same way as Paul - it makes a lot more sense why he would want to be with her, she's his conscience and the only person not worshipping him because of a false prophecy.
@@tb45g what false prophecy!? He IS the guy he claims to be , there is the biggest problem , hes not a "false profit" the nuns are mad at Jessica for having him early. He IS the voice from the outer world they speak of he was PLANNED by the sisterhood. Not a "false" anything.
@@rainjones3212 Exactly, he was planned, not prophesied. The Bene Gesserit aren't religious.
The "prophecy" is a made-up religion that exists in different forms all over the galaxy in order to support the rise of a Kwizatz Haderach, and support the Bene Gesserit's plans and protect them. It's purposefully open-ended so as to accommodate the many ways the Bene Gesserit could enact their plan. But most of the things that are part of the prophecy are simply things the Bene Gesserit are trained to do (and things the Spacing Guild can do). And they are trained to take advantage of the myths planted by them in previous generations.
But the Bene Gesserit don't believe in destiny or religion, they simply planted those superstitions in order to eventually take control. They didn't believe a Kwizatz Haderach would come, rather they planned to create one. But he could have just as easily have appeared on Geidi Prime as on Arrakis. It's not some magical or mystical thing, it's just the end result of the Bene Gesserit's program.
@@rainjones3212 The Quizac Haderach is a real thing, and Paul turns out to be it, but Lisan Al Gaib (the voice from the outer world) is just a story the BG planted to aid their own, should they ever find themselves in a pickle on this godforsaken planet (and they did this everywhere they went, to cover all bets). It's a tool to rally the locals and obtain their help. The BG never planned for Paul to land there, take leadership of the Fremen, use them to take over the entire empire and, ultimately, cripple their realm of influence. They wanted to create a superhuman they could control, but accidentally created a living god who turned all of their meticulous millennia-long scheming against them. For the Fremen like Chani, who could see through the entire enterprise, he was a false prophet because there was never any prophet to begin with, not because Paul wasn't it.
@@rainjones3212 its not a prophecy, its set up to be a prophecy. All the tests they had to do were trained by the bene geneserit as a way to protect them if they to come undeer danger on the planet. Paul was a product of bene gessirit breeding scheme to produce a human who can bridge time and space. There was nothing mystical about it, it was all science and all pre planned
I feel like the changes to Chani make her a Victim.
In the movie, she was forced against her will to help Paul via the Voice & Paul just "took" the Hand of Irulan.
In the Book, Chani choose to help Paul and even convinved him that a marriage to Irulan is a good thing.
❤
I was disappointed they didnt talk about folding space with the spice, like they did in David Lynch's version..that would have been cool to see Deni's take on that..but maybe it was left out because he probably couldnt put it in the film to make sense how a spice can distort space to move from one galaxy to the next..who knows
We saw how space travel works in part one, although we didn't see the whole process or logic behind it. The Guild Heighliner is what folds space. The Guild Navigators just trace safe paths between the stars, with the help of lots of spice.
Hopefully they'll talk about it Dune: messiah where Paul is going to be emperor. Spice a very important part of the Empire and politic power in this universe.
If I remember correctly you actually can see space folded as there is a planet on the other side of the guild highliner when reverand mother mohiam visits Caladan in part one.
@@wonderoguenow I'll have to go back and look for that!
On Gurney/Jessica: Nobody seems to have picked up on a huge difference in Dune 1: In the book, the first part is like a Hitchcock psycho thriller. In the second book scene, the baron reveals his plan, the traitor and every detail including that he wants all advisors of Leto to believe that Jessica is the traitor. In the film, the first part looks similar to the book, but is told in a totally different style. We don’t know about the traitor and Jessica is never suspected. I assumed it’s because the psycho thriller style was too different from the epic adventure style used later.
I believe the changes proved beneficial sure a few more minutes would have been even better but with this I am more than happy. I love this film to pieces
Yeah, the ending could have used more attention.
All the changes in this movie are justified. Hate to admit it but the novel had narrative issues and this movie streamlined the story. I'm sure if Frank Herbert wrote the novel in a traditional way, the story would have been closer to what you see in this movie.
I mostly agree. And Denis ended the film with the message that herbert wanted to get across to the reader. Most of the changes serve getting to that ending message
@CortexVideos Agreed. That's exactly what I got from it too. Many readers forget that the first Dune novel was actually written as magazine serials so that's why so many characters, mythology elements, and plot points were introduced. Herbert did all of that to keep each entry of the serial interesting!
I get the impression that Denis seems to have understood this very well.
I would agree more if Villeneuve made the decisions about how to retell the story first, and then decided on how many movies he will need to do it properly. Sadly, that is not the case, and all of the changes stem from the decision to cram the story into two movies, instead of three. He had to invent new motivations to progress things faster. The first movie had a great pacing, this one feels very rushed. I enjoyed the movie but I think it is greatly compromised, and had he been able to make two more movies, Villeneuve would have made both of them significantly better than this one.
The movie misses alot of themes. Movie is good. Book is best. I'm not even a big book reader. I read it like 4 years ago. When the first dune trailer came out. The movie cut out lots of things. And added bunch of stupid crap. Paul n his family aren't the good guys. Yes herkonens are monsters. But atreides aren't the good guys. The movie didn't detail the importance of spice. Mentats are no where to be found in the 2nd movie. The trees are looked at with envy. They are not scared. And more. It affects the theme of dune.
Nope. That is your opinion. Rationalizing DV's bad storytelling. Stop it. Seek help
Chani changes i really didn’t like
As someone who watched the movies first, I found chani EXTREMELY boring in the book.
She literally has no personality
Without her, Paul would look like a messiah and not a manufactured prophet, which defeats the point of the story. She is a stand-in for the audience.
@@hankolson3845Agreed.
In the book it takes Paul 2 years to become a leader. In that time he & Chani have a son that is killed by the Saudakar. The movie makes it seem like they just met, she doubts him & comes across like a jealous teenager. She's a warrior, she was critical in teaching & integrating Paul, they had a son together & suffered his loss together. No one knows Paul better than Chani & in the movie she loves him but doesn't trust or understand him. He has the weight of a world on his shoulders & agrees to marry Irulan to further their cause & Chani gets upset & storms off in a jealous fit like Paul is just trying to hook up with some random side chick. She is the primary reason why he even ascends & in the end of Dune 2 she's looking at him like he's a conman.
@@IronGiant2334 I know, and I think your critique is valid. It works for the book, but film is an entirely different medium where we can’t read their thoughts or see their motivations without actions, unless the movie uses exposition-dumps. I don’t see how it would be possible to show the audience that Paul is not a hero without a main character reflecting that feeling as well. If Chani acts like the book version; then the movie becomes the hero’s journey, and not a cautionary tale.
I wanted to see more of Paul training the Fremen. I wanted to see Paul moving with enhanced speed. I wanted the Third Stage Navigator "Paul must be killed" scene. I wanted Paul to show more of his powers. After the fight with Feyd, I wanted Paul to split his body with the Voice. And I really didn't like Chani being pissed off.
I fully agree
The lack of the spacing guild in part 2 was the only disappointment for me. I enjoy everything space travel related when it comes to sci fi so I was hoping for a more advanced depiction of what the navigators do to deliver travel and for me in the end this is the only thing that slightly disconnects this movie from being the sci fi drama I feel it should be. All in all it’s not as important as the many other things Dennie focused on and doesn’t hurt the story at all so there you have it. That’s probably why it was omitted. Wonderful video as always Cortex. Thank you
Change to Chani is the most important. Book Chani is too go-with-the-flow. Film Chani is discerning, clear-eyed: she is Paul’s equal and sees through him. It makes their connection deeper and she is a better character.
Would have been nice to see some scenes where they disagree more. From what I remember in the movie they don’t talk at all about the direction he is leading them.
Yes because in order to have a strong female character, She has to act like a girl boss from the year 2024. Only women with a modern western mindset are truly empowered.. And interesting.. right?
@@samuelgonzalez1392did you even watch the film? How is she a girl boss??? lmao
@@samuelgonzalez1392 she’s not a girlboss. At all.
@@samuelgonzalez1392 and for the record: book Chani knows how to kill.
Cannot wait to see the directors cut
Villeneuve stated that he has mo interest in making a director's cut, explaining that everything that was cut was cut for a reason and is now dead to him or something along those lines :/
I have to give love to Florence Pugh she played her part well when initially i thought she’d be a bad fit.
There's nothing she isn't good in.
The role isn’t great. The gave her more than it’s in the book. They tried to hype the female characters even gender swapping and making girls powerful to appeal to “modern” audiences.
@@frodo322does the prominence of female characters upset you? Genuine question
@@lemonnade5974 when it’s done just to fill a quota or deliver some message yes. Dr Kynes should have never been a woman. It was never a woman in the book. He was gender swapped just for politics and wokeism.
Adaptation from book to screen needs alterations and I believe Dennis made the best version for screen possible
I really really wish Dennis would release a longer cut with the deleted scenes
@@LuisSierra42agree with this in a big way. I'd love to get an extended cut similar to what we got with Lord of the Rings. As good as the theatrical cuts were, the extended editions were a significant improvement. The same could certainly be done with such a rich and dense story as Dune.
it only needs alterations for commercial purposes, and in Hollywood profit trumps art. That's why it makes the movie sloppy and irrational from the story development point of view. Villeveuve made a horrible job.
@@user-cl7gg9em6t agree to disagree 👍🏼
The biggest problem with having Alia yet unborn, is it accelerates the pace of Paul’s rise, in a way that was less believable than in the book.
But on balance, it’s better because the oddness of an adult aware child Alia for the screen-It would’ve taken us out of the movie.
My own headcanon is that Chani was pregnant with Leto II but she had a miscarriage
You forgot two major points.
Paul learnt how to manipulate the spice molecule and destroy all spice. That’s how he threaten the emperor, not with the atomic but with spice molecule manipulation.
The tip of Freud’s knife was poisoned and Paul adjusted his body to this when Freud thought he had Paul, Paul then adjusted the poison and killed him.
exactly
I really missed the Fremen’s terraforming agenda and also their entire Spice-culture. I believe the writers conflated the effects of Spice with the prophecy, and thus the Fremen skeptics must consider Water of Life to be “worm piss” that you are likely to die from drinking.
Another important difference: Paul never trains the Fremen Fedaykin. They are supernemt badass without his involvement. Which then raises the question: why hadn’t they wiped out the Harkonnen already?
I have questions about the movie for instance how did they get off the worm and how do they direct the worm where to go?
I really hope there will be an extended release of these movies someday.
I read the novel but can’t remember the count fenring don’t know why
I loved the film and think the changes were not too bad. I do hate that they cut Thufir Hawat from the movie as he wasn't given much in the first movie. Having Chani be the voice of reason was a great change but it does pose the question as to how Denis Villeneuve will be able to bring her an Paul back together for the third movie as them being together is important for the plot of the Dune Messiah.
It would have been cool to see Thufir more, but I definitely understand why he was cut. He doesn't have any POV scenes in the second half of the book and he's not even present for any scenes either until the end where he just dies. I really just wish they'd added more scenes with him training Paul in the first film.
Women get mad all the time. Once she’s calmed down, Paul will have make up sex with her and everything will be fine again.
My issue on the Chani change was mostly that it felt partially like it would have been VERY important for them to have had some on screen dialog where he explains (to some extent) what/how things are going to go down. She could still reject that in the short term and not mess up the story (I mean, it's a LOT to take in). But... we don't get that, which makes it feel kind of like they just didn't use their words... Maybe they did off screen, but what we got felt like he blindsided her quite a bit more than it seems like would be reasonable. Like... there's a STRONG reason why it's going to go the direction it does.
I think the change with Alia was terrible. Having a toddler with an adult personality would have been a great way of showcasing the weirdness of this universe and it was satisfying the Baron was killed by a child he tried to violate given the characters sickening nature. It had a poetic Justice to it that’s missing in the movie
I loved that change the most, and thought it captured the weirdness in a way, that didn't come off like chucky walking around. I dislike how it composed the timeline though.
One aspect that I dearly missed from the books were the many great lines spoken by the characters. It's all gone in the movie.
Sad true, but you can’t just copy dialogue line for line. Avatar live action is a perfect recent example of how trying that can backfire horribly.
The best lines are internal thoughts and non-verbal, which makes it hard to adapt.
@@raghudurina2354my name is ONG!!
I think the only change I'm really disapointed with was Jessica's water of life scene. At the same time I can accept why it was condensed as it would be too challenging to bring all the details of it to screen. But man I really wanted to see Paul see the visions of him and Chani and Chani saying "always".
Throwing in spoilers of the next book / movie is not the move…
I agree abandoning the Thufir storyline in Dune Part 2 was disappointing and a missed opportunity to add depth to the House Atreides mythology… not to mention the further development of the Baron’s character, who is almost reduced to a pantomime villain in the second movie.
Some things I liked in the 1984 film they didn’t do here is Alia being real creepy and using the voice. Then, Paul using the voice on Lady Mohaim felt better in the old film
The baby murdering the baron was what I was excited/worried about the most in Dune 2
The biggest problem i had with the changes to Chani's character, is that i see her character was always as loyal to Paul as he was to her, and this movie sort of ends on a sour note as far as their relationship, and that me sad as far as the "end of a book" goes. Her primary characteristic, is thus betrayed, even though adding this side of strength and independence to her makes her a deeper more interesting character, i don't think it serves her part in the story.
I absolutley loved how they changed her character. She became a reminder to the audience that Paul is a fabricated Messiah, and that sort of helps transmit Herbert's critique to the Messieh idea and culture around it
Let’s face it, it’s because of Zendaya and modern film. The book is much better - so frustrating.
I'm searching of the source of this information : where Herbert said or write that he wrote the Messiah of Dune to prévention people to see Pau as à hero ? Never heard that before ...
yes, there is not alot of differences compared to lets say 1984 dune or the miniseries, but by the time alia is a young adult there were no seas in dune, just small patches of green in the desert here and there, by the time of leto the second , river and oasis and most of the planet is covered in green and the sandworms are a rare sight and about to go extinct and most of the spice comes from leto's massive stash and the isolated pockets of desert left intentionally by leto.
if they introduce a sea in messiah it has to be because "magic" not ecological change.
also kynes death is different, in the books he is left to die in the desert without a stillsuit hellucinating a dialogue with his father till he was killed by a spice blow.
thufir parts were removed because the actor was sick.
I wish the _Dune_ story had been split into three parts, rather than two. the plot felt more and more rushed as _Part 2_ went on.
…and then make _Messiah_ into the fourth movement to finish things off, like a symphony 👌
and while I liked the changes made with Alia, it might also been nice if Jessica had kilt the Baron, perhaps?
and… perhaps they could change things around with the Fremen… where Jamis was Chani’s brother/cousin, and the Leto Jr. character melded with Jamis’ child that was also missing from the movie… 🤷🏻♂️
To be fair the plot felt even more rushed in the book than in the film haha. I do think there would have been more time to establish world building elements if the film was longer though.
Besides very few scenes with clunky dialogue i was absolutely enthralled by this movie and I think the channi change was a necessary improvement
Also dont forget about Dr Kynes, whos not only a man in the books (changed to a woman in the film), but also it is never mentioned that was supposed to be Chani's parent
Jessica is one of the best characters for me since the books, but the movies elevated her to a new level! Rebecca Ferguson was ABSOLUTE PERFECT, what a character!
Still wished that they acknowledged Chaim’s relation to Liet Chynes
It would have been another avenue for her and Paul to bond over their lost parents, and also give more insight to her differing views from the southern fremen, with maybe her father instilling the “belief in fremen” while being from arakkis and liet believing in the prophecies (which is why Chani has her name) yet from another world
Why exactly did he change the gender of Liet Kynes in the first place!? I didn't feel that the story benefitted from it in ANY way.
@@AbcDino843Diversity and inclusion...obviously. No other reason.
I think they were going to make Stilgar and Chani father and daughter, then backtracked.
@@Alnivol666 nope. Dropped plotline involving Stilgar as dad of Chani.
The top and bottom of it is that the changes that were made were for dramatic effect and to facilitate a sequel that is easy for the average moviegoer to understand that book is pretty dense and convoluted for the average non sci-fi fan.
I felt of the three major changes (Alia, thuffir, the guilds involvement in the final scene) the guilds exclusion was the biggest disappointment. They could bring thuffir back in a cool way (gurney sieging geidi prime) and Alia could be developed still in part 3. With the focus on her as a fetus and her talking to Jessica, I thought Alia would take over her body in that final scene to shock the reverend mother. Maybe it’s just me but if Denis had been guaranteed multiple movies upfront the first book should have been a trilogy
I really wanted a trilogy , and works live to hear DV explain how he have done that. I was wondering where the three breaks would have come. Two seemed more natural for a movie being released one at a time.
I didn’t read any Dune books, two parts of the movie is what I can talk about. Perhaps if u read the books u might not like these movies bc u now comparing the them to the books. Since I can only speak of the movies I found them interesting. Beautiful scenes, well made. I love the story, the cast. Can’t wait for part 3. 😊
My biggest negative is the short timespan because trying to get me to belive Paul could become a native and go on to fight and win a war in under 9 months is pure bullshit and pulls me out of the movie big time
Paul was trained his whole life in preparation and the fremen told by the BG for decades
@@kyborgarner9762 hes a 16 or so year old boy and he lived and trained on a water planet
@@joar8219 doesnt matter he’s a trained leader and bred by the BG for thousands of years to lead that’s what your original comment is point at
@@kyborgarner9762 yes and the BG training did nothing to prepare him for living in the deep desert and the fact that they fight and win over a super power in under 1 year is bullshit no matter what you say
I agree
Leaving out the navigator guild was a terrible choice -- but I'll withhold final judgement, hoping they play a big role in part 3.
My only issues with part 2 was the extreme speed run they gave us on the Gurney vs Rabban and the extensive religious scenes. I know they establish the fremen and what not but I think they could have pulled that off with 80% of the time they dedicated to it.
what movie did you watch? chani was LESS in the movie compared to the books. in no small part because she stayed very one note about paul being bad news. while in the books she goes back and forth, not wanting to believe in him because she saw her people give themselves up entirely to follow paul.
Wish they would have shown why you don't fire a laser at a target with a shield, and disappointed there was no CHOAM or Navigators Guild representation, sure they show up more in Dune Messiah but I feel as though it will glossed over or just completely omitted =/
I would like to know your thoughts about the removal of my Favorite Dune Character 'Otheym', Paul Muad'Dib's most trusted Lieutenant's. It did really irritate me, had been looking forward SO much into seeing Otheym onscreen. With his absence, I found that I didn't enjoy the movie very much.
This really should have been a tv series. Its crazy how a 3 hr movie felt so rushed n i didnt have a clue of the lore of the books. The more I'm learning about dune the more i dont see a path to where anybody will think the 3rd movie will be good as there's just way to much information they'd still need to cover unless they plan to go a TOTALLY different direction so much so they'd be creating a whole different story.
The Book:
Most Chapters start with "insert quote, by the Princess Irulan"
The Movie:
We don't bother telling you the name of the Princess
It's dubious to me whether or not a habitable planet would ever have a "black sun" or that said sunlight would make everything look monochromatic. They shot it with infrared cameras, but infrared is invisible to humans. HOWEVER: That doesn't matter. It was for effect, and it worked. Even if such a place couldn't literally exist, the unique look of the outdoor Giedi Prime scenes gives you the VIBE. It just FEELS different on that planet.
I never saw the wierding way used in his adaptation either
Certainly not in the way it was portrayed in the miniseries
What was up with the last baron scene? has to mean something right or they wouldn’t have shown it…and those are nukes right? How is he just staring at the explosion…wouldn’t all the emperors soldiers be covered in radioactive rocks and dust? That scene confused me a little
I believe they left his body there after the explosion. I prefer the book ending that was also used in the 1984 movie.
I was referring more to the bugs that crawled in his ear..seemed like they made a point to focus on it…I didn’t mind the end for the most part just missed some details i would have like to see filled
not having scene where feyd tries to kill baron was a bad choice
Denis did not include the Weirding Way. The style of fighting that made the Fremen a force to be reckoned with.
The most faithful adaptation was the series on SciFi channel.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love that adaptation too and Alec Newman is still my favorite version of Paul. If only it'd had a budget like Children of Dune on the first miniseries. Both the old miniseries and the new movies have a lot to offer, but... I think it's helpful to have the story from that or the book before going into the new version.
They did mention the Spacing Guild in Part 1, briefly. But yeah, that's about it. Well, we can be pretty sure we'll see them in Part 3.
The one blemish on Part 2 I can think of, so far, is when Gurney is playing the baliset. I think he should have been singing about something epic or poetic, and instead we get vulgarities for cheap laughs. Oh well. Movie Gurney is not really the same character anyway.
I was waiting for alia to kill the baron but i get it child actors are rarely good or understand how to act emotions but they could give her a black vile like what DL did in his adaptation
Jessica’s pregnancy. The longest ever!!
Why do you do the youtuber voice where you pronounciate like George Takei?
Chani's pregnant (with twins) surely, in Dune Messiah... after she's been an anti-Paul anti-War Freedom Fighter in the deep desert. :)
Beware charismatic leaders. This was a post hoc comment made by Herbert when he was feeling his popularity with young counter-culture readers and pandered to the "JFK is establishment" bandwagon. For anyone who has read the book and can think, his comment is related but not at all as revelatory as Denis has made it out to be, which has been commonly echoed recently.
Anyone who has read up to god emperor obviously sees how little relevance this comment has towards Paul and his choices.
Not having Baron Harkonnen killed by a 2-year-old and fully prescient Alia was a smart choice as she was the cringiest part of the 1984 Dune movie. However, shortening the time Paul was with the Fremen from 2 years to 6 months and cutting out the first child he had with Chani being killed during the assault on Sietch Tabr was not. Paul's transformation from follower to leader doesn't feel as earned, and it lowered the emotional stakes of his duel with Fayed.
I feel like Chani was always more than just a “love interest” in the books. And in the movie feel like the story was much more typical and what you would expect from any modern story. Also, all I see is Zendaya as the average or below average actress she is. Never saw the appeal.
Huge difference: zero mention of JIHAD.
I caved and I'm going to go see it tomorrow. I'm still disappointed with Part 1, but I will endure as best as I can
ZENDAYA SUX! Her acting was pure T SHlT!
Herbert didn’t writer Messiah ‘to make his intentions known’ about the dangers of messianic leaders.
The entire trilogy was intended from the outset to be read as a single comprehensive piece, with the perils of messianic fundamentalism serving as an overarching and guiding narrative for the larger saga. In fact, significant portions of Children and Messiah were written before Herbert finished Dune.
It’s true that Messiah dives deeper into this theme, but that’s merely a function of that book’s place in the overall arc of the story.
Lisan Al Gaib. لسان الغائب
Literally means (tongue of the absent one)
Maud’dib. المؤدب
Means a teacher on a moral or ethical basis.
Now that I have seen Part 2, I’ve decided I prefer the book. There are many many times where the book is better, and this seems to be one.
Audio, visuals, art direction, effects, cinematography, casting and acting are a 10. Script, directing and editing, are a 7. All of the alterations are compromises that were made to cram the rest of the story into a single movie. Enjoyable experience, but in my opinion a missed opportunity.
Gorgeous thumbnail
the spacing guild is in the movies, they are the ones with tinted helmets that you cant see inside while the emperors command was being received by leto.
They are stage 1 Navigators. We've yet to see a stage 3, but I'm pretty sure that we're gonna get one on the 3rd Film. Messiah starts with the introduction of a Tleilaxu and a Stage 3 Navigator!! Can't freakin wait
The benegeserit witch must leave! 😡
@@SumtingWong343 Good luck :). Considering the alterations so far, I wouldn't be surprised if Tleilaxu are completely omitted.
If you look closely you can actually see in their helmets, blue eyes
@@AbcDino843 Seems like they were hinted at in part 1 with the Baron's gross pet
Good commentary !
The world is full of great sci fi stories, its a shame all hope of there real telling on screen is now dashed.
the medico writers that plague this industry for the inability to capture the original arc of a story is stamped by this directors attempt, having great CGI tec at there disposal.
The world is lost.
FOR NOW !!
Best attempt to date is The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings.
I think Chani is already pregnant. Whether this pregnancy is baby Leto or Leto II and Ghamina remains to be seen.
But it would change the events of part 3 right??
my understanding is that she takes a worm, for a reason, to go back south, to go to get the water of life, to threaten to poison the worms and destroy the spice, in order to make paul step out of the lie and stop being evil
Not happy with the almost complete elimination of Alia.
Herbert did not criticize "messiahs" paul is just not the messiah , hes the voice in the wilderness , or your john the baptist figure. Herbert criticized religion , and painstakingly gave you a piece of every world religion , in the spacing guild bene gesserit , fremen triangle.
Thanks for the insight, agreed
Switching the act of giving water to the dead from Paul to Jessica destroyed the significance of the act so badly as to make it meaningless in the movie.
Star Wars dies in the dust of Dune
Way to go Disney n Kathleen Kennedy
Star Wars died decades ago, get over it
Remind me again why the harkonen able to destroy astreides without attracting attention from other great houses?
Because they conspire with the Emperor. The other houses do not know this and instead think the Harkonens attacked and defeated the Atreides legitimately, which isn’t an issue so long as the Spice trade continues.