Baseball is getting soft...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
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SHORTBREAD! I’m an old school baseball fan in the fact that I’ve been watching this wonderful game for over 60 years. I love genuine emotion with a bat flip, a fist pump or a whatever is genuine. Let the players show that emotion. Just keep it respectful and don’t direct it to your opponent. Greatest game on earth…let them play.
I just love how pitchers are allowed to pound their chest and scream at the top of their lungs in celebration when it comes to a big strikeout but when batters get a clutch hit and celebrates, its wrong.
It's because pitchers are divas and you aren't allowed to hurt their feelings.
Where is this happening, honest question? I can count on one hand the number of pitcher celebrations I have seen longer than 2 seconds. When they are, there are always consequences. One of the examples I gave is literally a pitcher being ejected haha. That said, it could be completely different in hs/college ball.
@@TrevorMayBaseball I posted the comment before watching the full video, since people make a big deal out of Baustisa’s celebration. Sometimes pitchers in the playoffs will celebrate themselves. We all know it’s just playoff energy. Player celebrations shouldn’t be a big deal in any league.
@@TrevorMayBaseballbro what?? just google clutch pitching moments are you for real? you were in the bigs for so long and your tryin to say youve only seen a couple?? get the fuck out of here
@TrevorMayBaseball shortbread, remember the fight between Dom and Alvarado? He was doing that stuff CONSTANTLY. He did eventually get consequences but only after it led to a fight
Shortbread, football players celebrate almost every play. However when they taunt someone, it is a penalty. Like you said, keep it directed to your team, it’s taunting directed to the opposing team.
It seems pretty simple and is how the ncaa rule is written. It’s not looking like it’s being enforced correctly.
I’m just imagining if this rule was in place in 2022.
Post season. Braves Phillies.
Citizens Bank Park.
Rhys Hoskins with one of the most epic bat flips in MLB history.
We call it The Bat Spike.
Enough things would have been thrown from the crowd that it would have been shoulder deep in trash.
In about 90 seconds.
Oh 100%. You notice no one seem bothered by it after the fact though? That’s the way to do it.
Like most things in society, a middle point is usually the best/most effective way for things to work. Unfortunately these days, whether it’s sports, politics or anything else, people take a very extreme stance one side or the other and refuse to see or understand anything from the “other side”.
Totally agree with you on the umpires needing to have some feel for enforcing things.
To me, the line is if it is disrespectful to your opponent or not. But I'm also a little bear-ish on celebrating. I prefer the silent killer-types. Buster Posey, Andrew McCutchen, Albert Pujols, etc.
I’ve seen the rule cause more shitshows than it claims to save. Our lead off guy almost got tossed for accidentally throwing his bat too far on a leadoff walk. Literally told the umpire “chill the fuck out.”
I feel like these issues could be solved by each team having a designated karate master on hand, and if one team feels the other team is showing them up, the karate masters fight, and whichever teams karate master wins is correct. Shortbread!
Shortbread: I recall in an interview someone asked Eric Dickerson why he never spiked the football. "Scoring touchdowns if my job. I've done it many times before, and I'll be doing it a lot more."
Coaches always say that sports turns boys into men. If that's not just bullshit, these boys (and men) ought to learn how to manage their emotions!!
Shortbread - spot on here. Additional point; much like strong language, the restraint causes tension to build, so when it finally gets directed at the opposing team, everyone knows things just got serious.
Shortbread. I agree with your ideas Trevor. Celebrate. Have Fun. As long as you are not directing it towards the opposing teams. I think they want to go back to this gentlemen style of baseball back in the old days that's fine as long as they don't take the fun away.
Shortbread: A formal "Warning" system seems like the move.
It is such an egregious overcorrection to kick a kid out of the game because they were maybe, kinda-sorta facing towards the other dugout while celebrating a big moment.
Shortbread. Was at a college baseball game today where the pitcher threw behind a player then hit him in the same at-bat. Didn’t get a warning or tossed. Later, same pitcher drilled a different player in the head with a 92 mph heater, rupturing his eardrum. No warning, not tossed. So there’s a line somewhere…
Sounds like an umpire who recognizes a young pitcher with control problems.
Shortbread. In my opinion the line is directly taunting or saying derogatory things to the opposition. Everything else should be acceptable. Bat flips, fist pumping on strikeouts, home run celebrations on the base paths, all of it
Boom.
The perfect word you said “tip your hat” should always be a ball players reaction. I get it. Sometimes the “bat flip” happens because of the excitement of winning the situation.
The Bautista bat flip is the perfect example of how to celebrate a clutch moment. Hit a bomb. Admired for a second. Bat flipped and ran the based. He didn’t take too long. Everything building up in that game, the intensity, back and forth. It was THE moment to celebrate.
Don’t point your celebration at other teams and don’t celebrate too long where it’s excessive is all I care about. Both teams should be allowed to get excited about things
Another great example is Manny Ramirez Walk off against the Angels. Celebrating and enjoying the moment
@@johnnybravo2334 reminds me of Harper’s walk off grand slam. He said in the interview he sprinted around the bases because he couldn’t wait to get back to home plate to celebrate with the boys
Douche move by a douche player.
I am old school, a bat flip, gets beaned the next time up, but then again, I'm a Reds fan and Votto was pure class for 17 years. It's what I'm used to. I couldn't imagine Henry Aaron flipping the bat when he broke The Babes record. Baseball is the classiest game we have going, let's keep it that way. That's just my opinion, I'll love the game no matter what direction it takes.
Can’t stand seeing this in the sport.. Let the players play! They’re getting tossed for stuff that isn’t over the top whatsoever
Like… a WALK? Really?
As a Canadian... the BS following the Powtista Bomb for years turned me off of the game entirely.
How much longer until a batter hits a homerun.... taps his foot on home... and then walks back to the dugout without so much as a dry cough towards first base? Or so much as touching the tip of his hat to fans?
If I could get Korean ball on TV here, or Japanese HS ball? I am pretty sure I would be done with the MLB.
THANK YOU again for coming out to Oakland Fanfest - you are amazing! - and this was a great video! I agree with your perspective!
You are so welcome! Thank you for having me!
the way you handled this was amazing, calling out the problem and providing a solution!!
played in college, had a kid on the other team hit a LONG FLY BALL caught at the warning track, he batflipped the bat and hit our dugout fence, our entire team chirped him as he walked back to his dugout on 3rd base line
The moment I became a Tigers fan was one of my first ever memories as a kid.
Back in the 2006 Playoffs, Detroit had a historic underdog run and I'll always remember Magglio Ordonez' Walk-Off to send the Tigers to the World Series since 1984.
As a kid, I didn't understand how long fans were waiting to even sniff Playoff glory. But, the moment I realized it was seeing Magglio walking around the bases and celebrating with his teammates afterwards at home plate.
My thoughts about it are it makes those moments more memorable for anybody who's watching/listening.
Allow all the bat flips and pitcher celebrations. Ban fighting or brawling entirely. Any player out of the dugout gets a 25 game suspension. If any players fight on the field, automatic 25 game suspension, no appeal. No bullpen players or staff are permitted to leave the bullpen for any reason other than for game purposes.
They’ve implemented these rules beginning in my son’s high school the last few years. He’s a sophomore playing starting shortstop on varsity, last game had scouts from yanks and cubs I think all with their radar guns clocking the opposing starting pitcher. My son who walked in his first ab lines a double down the line moving the runner to 3rd with him ending up on second with a mild celebration but I was still concerned the ump might take it the wrong way. He was on second looking at his boys in the dugout but the second baseman and shortstop were close as they had to field the incoming throw and hold the runners.
Shortbread. As an audio production nerd, I think you need an omnidirectional microphone. As a baseball fan, I'm all for celebrations that aren't taunts. More warnings before outright rejections unless the act is egregious. I don't want baseball fights because 99% of the time baseball fights are lame. If they were like hockey and the two players are allowed to duke it out without other players interfering, then I'd be okay with it. Otherwise stay in the dugout and bullpen.
You had me right up to the point about the pitch clock defusing or eliminating tension. To the contrary - it keeps the pot boiling, keeps people - fans, players, everyone - engaged and involved. The length of games had many sources, including TV commercial time. But the endless stepoffs by pitchers, the endless stepping out of the box by hitters, was absolutely infuriating and at the end of the day, made the whole thing boring and unwatchable.
Go back and look at WS games from the 1980s, before all the pimping, adjusting, endless consultations, etc, etc started. Under three hours. About that time, we started getting nine inning games lasting three plus, four, five hours.
Nah
Shortbread! Rocking the FT Merch is a G move! I personally would rather see people have fun and celebrate when they come through for their squad. Make it between you and your squad and there should be no problem. Obviously, taunting the other team should not be tolerated and it's solely a selfish move because every college coach knows the rule which hopefully means every player should know the rule
Sortbread.
As a player that has been on both sides of a big time celebration. And a kid that dreamed of big time situations, I think you’re right. The emotion is the fun of the game, and as long as it’s not directed towards the opponent, should be encouraged. I think it’s great for the game
Trevor I can see you being like almost what JJ redick is for the nba rn. Start out just with a platform on the internet talking to fans & players alike & end up getting a legitimate tv job bc of it. You’re a smart dude & good at talking I think it’s on the horizon
As a college volleyball official, I always tell the players, turn and celebrate with your teammates. Don't celebrate through the net at your opponents. Simple instructions. As a former baseball & soccer coach, I understand the tension and the need for a release, so I don't get over-officious. I will even call them over to my stand and remind them of what I said pre-match. The next instance gets a yellow card, and after that a red card or they get tossed. These quick triggers do nothing but give officials an even worse reputation.
Shortbread.... "Ungentlemanly Conduct" is what the rule should be. Teach the kids to have fun but be a gentleman. If everyone learns the difference from the beginning, it won't be a problem in the Majors. It will also preserve the integrity of Baseball as a gentleman's sport.
Shortbread, what if baseball implemented had a penalty box? Batter misses an at bat and can’t field until their next eligible at bat comes up? Pitcher has to pitch one in inning with one fewer fielder behind him, no shifting allowed of course. I don’t think it would work but it would be silly and fun. It’s a game after all. Haha
No one hits the other way anymore, so it’s not much of an advantage. You could have no right fielder and second baseman and righties will still roll over.
I honestly do wish that when a batter gets plunked that they should let them and the pitcher handle it however they choose like when 2 guys fight in hockey the officials let it go until someone drops to the ground. Just let the batter and pitcher throw hands until it hits the ground, nothing wrong with that
9:16 NO this drives me nuts. Once you turn 18, you are not a kid anymore. Especially not once you are in college. That cannot be an excuse anymore. They need to be judged on the same standards as a 25 yo would be
I dunno, there's plenty of difference between an 18 year old and a 25 year old in my eyes at least
Shortbread, you hit the nail on the head saying baseball is about fun, and showing emotion should be part of it. Nobody's gonna eject a pitcher for a "LFG" or fist pump during big strikeouts, let batters do the same.
The most tension filled games were my absolute favorite. I never once took my opposition celebrating as offensive or anything. Now, I’ve had opposing pitchers yelling at our dugout and stuff like that should be addressed because it can spiral fast. But if they’re celebrating with the boys, I say have at it. That’s why we play!
Shortbread! Trevor you are fantastic at explaining things in a simple and entertaining way. In terms of sporting personalities on TH-cam you are by far my favourite.
You crack me up bro, nice to hear your insight in a humorous manner
SHORTBREAD, let 'em play. Some of my favorite games were Ozzie era Tighty Whities vs Twins, Torii Hunter crashing through Burke at the Plate, EVERYONE & THEIR BROTHER fired up, it was GREAT!
What would also be great is to have you and JUSTIN MORNEAU doing color commentary at the same time, that would be fantastic!
Shortbread… do they issue a warning, or is it auto-eject?
Great hearing you on SXM!!
Seems like we’re all kinda in agreement here, celebrations are okay. But there’s a bunch of old timers that disagree with us. Same guys that get mad when a hitter swings with a 3-0 count.
Shortbread ❤ I didn't like the Joey Bats home run pimping but then I found out it made Goose Gossage angry so it actually was very tight and I hope dudes keep celebrating and having fun
Showing emotion is part of sports.. it's what people work their entire lives for.. to be able to do what they love at the best of their ability. Let them talk their ish if they want PERIODT
12:01 if I wanted to watch people fight, I’d watch boxing
Shortbread. Your point about who you celebrate with really matters. The Braves share a clip of Soler sending one into orbit during the WS and he turns to his dugout to hype them up. Totally fine. If he turned to the Astros to flex on them it would’ve been in poor taste. Other cool moments like the Bat Spike are like that too. Enjoy winning with your boys, the other team is fully aware of what happened.
Shortbread.
Baseball is the only sport where celebration and emotion is penalized either by rules or "unwritten rules" (which are dumb as hell). Football is a close second, but soccer, hockey, basketball, tennis, etc, it's accepted and brings excitement to the game. At the end of the day (mainly in collegiate or pro sports), if you don't want someone to celebrate, do better.
So haooy for your time as a twin. I went to a bunch of your games. Love your content. I didnt even know you were a youtuber till last week. Ill always suppory a twin
Shortbread I think celebrating and getting excited shouldn't be moderated by the league unless it's pretty egregious, like you get in someones face or something stupid.
If the opposing team thinks you crossed a line it should be up to them to decide whether it's worth it or not to get ejected by throwing at a batter or starting a fight, but I think managers and players will grow to realize losing players in a game isn't worth retaliating against that stuff over and so they kinda just have to get over it
Shortbread - they need to reward points for the best excessive celebration that does not taunt the other team.
Shortbread! Trevor I’m wondering what you think about Trevor Bauer’s sword celebration? I would consider it a gesture at the batter, but he’s also celebrating something that he did. Entertainment either way!
Shortbread. I've always had the opinion that getting mad at a bat flip after a homerun is silly. Throw a better pitch next time so he doesn't crush it, and the reaction is to throw at them next time is dumb for 2 reasons. 1. A 100mph fastball (maybe at their head is not an equal offence). 2. It hurts yourself in the process by giving them a free runner. But yeah the guy being thrown out for celebrating a walk is ludicrous.
I like celebrations. Baseball is all about emotions!
Throwing it in the other team/player's face? Not called for. But let them show what they are feeling.
Shortbread!
Its really surprising coming from the NCAA. They are obviously known for being forward thinking and considered about every decision.
Come to think of it, why doesn't baseball use a yellow/red card system like soccer does? Sure, it'll still come with its own issues and arguments, but at least it's a clear system that everyone can understand
Jimmy Tatro + Ryan Reynolds = Trevor May. 🔥❤️
Shortbread.
Let the kids play. As long as the celebration isn't malicious towards the opposing team. Just let the kids (and grown kids) play.
Shortbread--quite possibly, the perfect treat. Sugar and butter with just enough flour to hold it together, om nom nom. Anyway. This seems like a good rule but ejection? Maybe try, "Hey, watch it, take it down a notch," instead.
That's the problem with having a textbook definition and not a more common sense approach -- context is huge. To me the crux of context is -- if the moment is huge for the TEAM, it's totally normal to get excited and go nuts. If it's just an individual thing, like a dude hits a solo home run when winning 6-1, the hot dogging looks completely classless. But yeah in neither case should you be trash talking the other team or doing any "in your face" stuff. I think it's more tolerable in a sport where there's a constant 1v1 physical battle, but it just seems totally off in baseball.
Edit: The one problem I have with the "intent being the rule" is that you're gonna really have to enforce trash talking from the dugout. Because if a dugout is talking trash, and you hit a homer, it's going to be really hard not to say something back and get tossed lol.
I miss the ol’ hard sliding to break up the double play. The brawl with Will Clark and Ozzie was awesome to me.
Shortbread. What would your opinion be on say Trevor Bauer's sword celebrations. Good or too far?
I think there is a line, celebrating & pimping a walk...over the line...celebrating a homerun in the playoffs...perfectly fine. I personally like Barry Sanders, guy just handed the ball to the ref every single touchdown, but I understand in the heat of the moment, you get excited. but pimping a walk, cmon guy, lets reign it in a bit.
When a guy gets a strikeout or a big hit, he earned his moment. Tip your cap and move on. Ejecting players for celebrating success is absurd. I hate how soft people are.
That no celebrating rule is ridiculous celebrating pump’s everyone up including fans
who is supposed to be offended by trash talk?
if a player gets mad over something said, that's their own prerogative
Shortbread
In football, “taunting”, spinning the ball towards an opposing player, “unsportsmanlike conduct” are 15 yard penalties. BUT, NOT EJECTION. Obviously in baseball there can’t be penalty flags thrown but why can there be warnings issued when a player tosses the bat towards the opposition or umpire? I believe in football, once you get 1 flag for “unsportsmanlike conduct”, that leaves you prone to ejection if you get another in that same game (unless the original unsportsmanlike conduct was malicious or deemed dangerous then the player can be ejected with just 1). So for example, if batter tosses the bat in the general direction of the opposition but it falls harmlessly to the ground nowhere near hitting anybody, that constitutes a warning from the umpire and makes the player 1 stray bat flip away from ejection. However, if the bat flip hits the opposition or umpire, it’s automatic ejection. That way, there’s accountability for “unsportsmanlike conduct” but it’s not so crazy that a player gets tossed because in the heat of the moment he subconsciously acted due to excitement. Which still promotes players being able to celebrate an accomplishment while making sure they’re not reckless without proper punishment. Warnings are issued by umpires all the time…why can’t this be another reason for them to do it?
If you celebrate a walk you got problems😂
Shortbread. Apolo Ohno. Gardner Minshew. Trevor May.
...Headband Icons.
Like you mention at the start, one of the biggest problems here is that there's no intermediate punishment. You're either 0% ejected, or 100% ejected.
I think ejecting players for a number of innings would be a good intermediate punishment that could add a new dynamic to the game.
Your star player is up to bat next half inning but gets into an argument with the umpire and ejected for 2 innings? Hope you have a decent bench guy then, because he's gonna need to come in for a little bit.
This would obviously necessitate the ability to sub a player back in after being removed, but this could be limited to specific circumstances.
It is interesting, like they miss an at bat and 3 innings in the field or something.
It seems so simple. You can and definitely should celebrate. But do with your own team, you don't need to get in the face of the opposing team.
Shortbread, I think the celebrations in baseball is fine. Totally agree; it adds tension to sports. Tension makes it more interesting; Go Cubs!
I can go either way on celebrating. It’s complicated. But I don’t see a world where celebrating a walk is hard. It’s just not man.
It is soft. We care more about feelings than ACTUAL competition. Professional sports isn't fun, it's a career.
It is possible to care about both, fortunately.
Shortbread: If a baseball game does not organically build tension, then we need to put an end to the sport. It seems like sports are gradually allowing sportsmanship to go by the wayside. You don't like getting buzzed, stop acting like you've never gone deep before. If you make a rule, you have to enforce it strictly, or players will keep going further to see what they can get away with. Different umps will have different tolerances, and you'll be right back to chaos. This crap was inevitable when pitchers didn't have to grab a bat any more. I say, you act like a punk ... prepare to get the commissioner's stamp on your ribs.
Shortbread
I totally agree let’s keep it fun.
What did u think of my man Adolis Garcia's bat slam in the 2023 ALDS? Mostly he was pissed off at Moldanado and went yard but it seemed like a fine reaction and not aimed at the Astros persay but at one player, of course I'm seeing it from my side...anyway thx for the show I enjoy it.
Shortbread This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. I had no idea this was going on because I don’t watch college baseball but damn what a joke. Why play a sport if you don’t get excited and show emotion
Any chance we can get your opinion on the wonderful world of Angel Hernandez??
Shortbread! You have a great baseball voice, Mr May
I love these videos!!
i don’t disagree with the ncaa rule at all but i believe they are enforcing it incorrectly
shortbread. perfectly said mr May.but just don't celebrate a walk
Soon humans won’t be permitted to play….the joyless robots will be in the game….and diligently follow the rules. Ratings will be crap….Fan avatars will be in the stands…😮
Shortbread. I am tired of the soft new age sports. It is all sports. Let the players manage it. If it gets out of control, sore ribs are usually a good reminder.
Brawls rarely begin because a guy gets plunked as a reminder. It often happens in the next series, but real fans and the players get it. Bring the emotion. Emotionless sports will fail.
Next up- Participation trophys for all MLB teams at end of the season.. Theyre turning MLB into Little League..
Let the players police the game themselves. Don’t give it to the umpires opinions. Let the players play.
The other day Josh Naylor hit a homer and then bashed his helmet with his bat on the way to first, I bet the old men hated that.
Mehhh your pitch clock hyperbole was a little silly. 20 minutes between pitches also is bad for tension, I think keeping a pace of play that's quicker than a snail on downers is an overall good thing.
JOEY Bautista is so good.
Make fighting even more punished so that they don’t fight as often. Rubbing it in your opponents face is partnof sports and competitions. If you want to be a nice person and not taunt or celebrate that’s on you and also don’t take it tooo far, but if your job is to stop someone for doing something and they beat you? Thought shit. Do better next time.
It's perfectly simple: direct your celebration at teammates or empty space. The second you direct it toward an opponent, you are baby shit soft and based on new rules get ejected. Fine with the ejection rule because there are so many baseball games vs. other sports, it probably pencils out in the end how much sway that has over a teams season anyway.
I say you are soft as baby shit for celebrating at the opponent because you are making a statement about how weak you are as a person. You aren't recognizing your own success or how this affects your teams success; you are recognizing the failure of the opponent, and in doing so, imho, wallow in that failure instead of standing on your achievement. It's a light version of "you'd hit a man when he's down?" type of mindset.
It also ties into what kind of competition I strive for versus what I celebrate. I'm not celebrating when for instance the opponent had an injury and had to put in a freshman/rookie and I homer. Yeah good for me, but I want to beat you at your best. That isn't. So some of these instances are like that...somewhat.
Shortbread
Baseball umpires have the most fragile egos in sports, chafe my mind
Garret "Fat man didn't sprint to around the bases" Cole might disagree with you
Shortbread. I don't like the celebrations.
Shortbread, I agree with the "dont celebrate towards the other team" but I also feel like celebrating like.. TOO TOO MUCH is also kind of obnoxious (as a braves fan the best example I can think about is Acuna in the winter league last year pimped a HR for about 5 minutes) :D.
Haha I hear that, it can be tired at times, but I’ll take an eye roll over and ejection any day.
Umpires and Pitchers have been soft for quite some time, sorry Trevor ;) obv dont go after the other player personally ie taunting however the NFL and College FB go overboard with the taunting penalty all the time
I like what you said Trevor. It’s simple. Where is your intention is at the other team? Or is it with your boys? If it’s your boys, that’s not taunting. If it’s at the other team that’s taunting and I’m fine with a little shit talking. Too much shit talking and you got guys getting thrown up and in at.
Another perfect example of celebrating that unleashes the emotion is Rhys Hoskin’s Homer vs the Braves. He hits the homer then throws his bat into the ground and takes off to round the bases.
Shortbread, this is great. You are smart. I like you.
Hey, you’re pretty great too. Dope name.
Perhaps when a player has a good hit they can wrap a straight jacket around him as well as a face mask Hannible Lecter style and then two other players can dolly him around the bases,
Lets get people to watch our sport by making sure the players show the least amount of emotion as possible!
You remind me of a beefed up Modern Family dad from the show. I like you.
Thannnnnkkk youuuuu?
@@TrevorMayBaseball I made it weird eh? Been a fan for a long time, along with my 2 boys. Showed up in my recommendations today and now subscribed. Keep up on the videos, they're great and will have my boys watch the pitching vids. We've got a few Trevor May cards that would be cool to have signed some day.