Hey now, any scolding is just for fun, I love this stuff! That said, that gives me an idea for a fun battle Royale. Every class ..recruited from their best around the story....basic equipment.... thrown into a 1v1. Really the gap with monsters comea from the fact that they only have one equip slot. Give em charms, and they become broken. Especially a high Mind Cockatrice. Hot damn is that chicken oppressive.
I accidentally downloaded this game a year ago. It was only when I found your channel and rewashing your playthrough I gave it a shot. Still playing this game 4 months later! You are the best!
Griffin is easy S if you're doing a standard run through the game. Not talking about postgame, just a typical run from start to credits. Griffin is available early, redirects enemy aggro, has a self-heal, inflicts stun, has crazy movement range and massive piles of hp. Cockatrice is great but you don't get them until chapter 4ish IIRC.
I haven't played the remake but I have played the PS1 release a number of times. In that one monsters were borderline useless, except possibly Tiamats because they're so tanky, or maybe a griffon or cockatrice because they're mobile and can carry 4 items.
@@TitaniumLegman Just double checked and yeah it works! Don't need to take Aquaveil in PotD since poison tiles count as water. Cloud Ring doesn't remove it counting as water, but will prevent the poison.
I’ll say what I did on Coffee Potato’s video on dragons: I don’t care how good Water and Fire are compared to Earth and Wind, nor if their Breath attacks are better; I dislike the aesthetic of their colour to the palette of the portrait so I will never use them. Others can, I just don’t like them… Then again, I would probably put the Ice pretty high (phenomenal look too), as well as Dark and Light (and the second Xapan fight let’s you try getting the latter two early-ish!) Tangential to this, if you’re aware of Coffee’s pointing out “special” generics on certain maps, the one I find most exciting is the Lightning Dragon with an Earth element. I think there’s also a monster in Dievold’s fight in Chaotic route, and I know too well of the Dark element griffon in Andoras’ first first. Among others, not all beasts either… There may be others we haven’t discovered but who knows? Hydras… the probably best ones? They’re also probably the best alternative to the Flood dragons especially as they can be Water element. I adore the Cyclopes and Golems; they have such wild movesets in different ways, don’t they? Griffons of course, and then Cockatrices… well, there’s good reason CP says you haven’t played this game in full if you’re not scared of “chickens” yet! Honestly, between these and Octopuses - and if you consider Reptiles as monsters too (they’re not counted but they fall between this and human classes almost…) - there’s definitely a lot of fun to be had!
While cockatrices are fascinating, even overpowered if you stuff them full of charms like a Thanksgiving turkey, they lack the huge AoE of windstorm and the massive self-heal that gryphons get from bloody hook. I think petrification makes up for it, but I don't think it pushes them ahead of gryphons. (A lot of the hardest fights in the game, a gryphon fixes.) I think arc dragons are ranked too high just from a practical standpoint. You're basically never afraid of enemy arc dragons, and your arc dragons never get into position to holy breath a caster before they cast their big spell. San Bronsa has a level where you're down a pit with a ton of holy dragons above you spitting holy breath down on your shaman, and that lets them shine. But in normal gameplay, against the stages the game throws at you, they're just too slow to reach casters the way a gryphon can. For cyclopes, did you know they can use the unholy apocrypha? Talk about a seriously weird unit. I think they deserve A tier, though. Their huge health pool and low defense means they get surrounded by enemies... who are then disabled by reeking meetballs and stinky feet and all of their other gross abilities. But they counter melee and ranged (via boulder throw) hard, and they generate mana from hitting and being hit. I feel bad seeing octopodes so low, but I think they make up for it by being available as overpowered zombies at the start of Chapter 2 when Pharompa opens up that first wing. The skulltopus (zombie octopus) in there is extremely strong in the early game, so maybe it's okay that they fall by the way side. But I'd toss golems down there with them. Rampart aura is neat when broaden force goes off, but I've never seen anyone use them in a way that makes them better than... well, any other monster.
I agree with your assessment for the most part @ValeVin. Cockatices and Gryphons are almost equal really; I'd say it's not really enough to put one a tier higher than the other. Arc dragons should probably be in B tier. You said the reasons why; most of the time they won't be able to make use of spoil spell to gimp enemy magic users. They're not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it's just they won't be able to use their niche often enough for it to matter. Personally I find Hydras far more useful than Arc Dragons. Poison is almost always useful. I almost agree with your cyclops assessment, though I can't put them into A tier just due to the fact that they have poor accuracy with status magic without a ton of investment or someone there to hit them with a spellstrike buff. They have this issue throughout the game really. They're still a status ailment spamming nuisance, but having the option to reliably hit a ranged enemy with something that disables them while being annoying vs melee enemies would be the perfect. I also hate seeing octopi that low but it makes sense; great early game performance, but without water they're not so hot. Plus all beasts/dragons end up having their damage fall way off, which really hurts octopi since damage dealing is pretty much what they're for. Golems are meh, I fully agree. You can just use a dragon for the role golems have and get more out of it. They are walls for sure, but there's not much more they can do other than the odd stun here and there. Granted, dragons can't wall things like golems can, but still, you rarely need that much of a wall. I would say they're D.
This definitely ain’t a game where in “meta” terms, everything is consistently the same level of effective throughout; certain classes are great at a particular time, or else they come in clutch on particular maps. With that in mind, the Octopus became available early in the PSP onwards (Rhea Boum Aqueduct wasn't a place in the original version) so we could find new utilities in the gameplay; there's a lot of maps in Chapter 2 & 3 in which they'll be useful but they also can keep up somewhat; even in Chapter 4, there's a few battlefields (plus sidequests) in which they can help out too…
Have you ever thought about doing challenge runs in tactics ogre, fire emblem, or unicorn overlord like no items or no use of certain classes. Just a thought. I enjoy your play throughs. Just finished unicorn overload myself.
I got into tactics ogre and decided to try and make my main hero a beast master and recruit a bunch of monsters, but around the middle of chapter 2 I think, my army kind of stopped being effective. Everything just started to take too much damage and not deal enough. I just don't know how to get around a lot of the fights. The difficulty just kept creeping higher to the point where I lost interest. I'd like to finish it one day, but making the army I want just seems like too much work.
IIRC, I think you are massively underrating False Strike, and by proxy Thunder Dragons. From what I remember, any abilities that reduce accuracy reduce the cap of accuracy, so if a unit was going to hit 100% of the time, False Strike would knock that down to 80% of the time. That's a 20% reduction in damage, and can potentially save units when you have regular attacks that can one-shot squishy units. So compared to other dragons whose status effects honestly don't do much, Thunder Dragons, on the front lines, can largely reduce enemy damage. I'd put them similar to Red Dragons who have a slightly better overall ability in Weaken since I think that reduced all damage, but both abilities have their uses.
False Strike is incredible when paired with Dodge buff and Stun debuff (and Parry), but imho in a vacuum where you only have access to the one debuff, Weaken is better for the targets that need to be mitigated. Usually those targets are the bosses with 4 cards and Weaken is the difference in a finisher 1-shotting your guy and doing 80% of their max HP. I'd rather heave to heal that damage up every turn than have to rez AND heal someone every round that I don't get that 20%.
Hey now, any scolding is just for fun, I love this stuff! That said, that gives me an idea for a fun battle Royale. Every class ..recruited from their best around the story....basic equipment.... thrown into a 1v1.
Really the gap with monsters comea from the fact that they only have one equip slot. Give em charms, and they become broken. Especially a high Mind Cockatrice. Hot damn is that chicken oppressive.
Legitimately sad that Tactics Ogre content is gonna stop again. I've really been enjoying hearing you talk about it again. Thank you!
You're very welcome! Any time I can come up with an idea for a video I'm happy to do more. I love it too!
in palace of the dead octopus can use their abilities standing over the poison patch squares, and they are everywhere.
I accidentally downloaded this game a year ago. It was only when I found your channel and rewashing your playthrough I gave it a shot. Still playing this game 4 months later! You are the best!
Was watching your final fnatasy tactics tier list and i learned alot!! And found ALOT of things i didnt even know about!! But Thanks!
Thanks chief! I'm glad my stuff has been informative for ya. 😁
Came back to TO:R after discovering your channel! Much appreciation for your work, keep it up!
@@10thevil happy to help, and enjoy!
I wish monster units could evolve like in Ogre Battle 64
New fan here, been playing unicorn overlord and tactic ogre is next on list
Going from peak to peak, you're gonna have a good time. 😏
Golems are BADASS. I used the Baldur Golem on my team back in the day but the Stone variant for Reborn
I wish the different golem variants had unique skills for each of them. Imagine the insanity of Baldur golem's having magic and high magic resist.
Been watching all these a lot and i think damn i should play tactics ogre again
I played toluct but not reborn so I'd prob go do that
@@reggislowgas993 reborn is worth it.
Griffin is easy S if you're doing a standard run through the game. Not talking about postgame, just a typical run from start to credits. Griffin is available early, redirects enemy aggro, has a self-heal, inflicts stun, has crazy movement range and massive piles of hp.
Cockatrice is great but you don't get them until chapter 4ish IIRC.
I would love to hear your takes on Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark. It's a love letter to Square tactics
I haven't played the remake but I have played the PS1 release a number of times. In that one monsters were borderline useless, except possibly Tiamats because they're so tanky, or maybe a griffon or cockatrice because they're mobile and can carry 4 items.
I put Reborn on the Back Burner for a while but really need to get back into soon
Octopi with cloud ring can use poison tiles in potd as a water source iirc, which makes them actually pretty good there.
Oh really? That's interesting, and could be quite strong for sure.
@@TitaniumLegman Just double checked and yeah it works! Don't need to take Aquaveil in PotD since poison tiles count as water. Cloud Ring doesn't remove it counting as water, but will prevent the poison.
@@Pickleton Next time I'm in PoTD it's time for TENTACLESSSSSSSS
@@TitaniumLegman Do it up! Plenty of zombo tentaclets in Phorampa ripe for the recruiting!
I’ll say what I did on Coffee Potato’s video on dragons: I don’t care how good Water and Fire are compared to Earth and Wind, nor if their Breath attacks are better; I dislike the aesthetic of their colour to the palette of the portrait so I will never use them. Others can, I just don’t like them… Then again, I would probably put the Ice pretty high (phenomenal look too), as well as Dark and Light (and the second Xapan fight let’s you try getting the latter two early-ish!)
Tangential to this, if you’re aware of Coffee’s pointing out “special” generics on certain maps, the one I find most exciting is the Lightning Dragon with an Earth element. I think there’s also a monster in Dievold’s fight in Chaotic route, and I know too well of the Dark element griffon in Andoras’ first first. Among others, not all beasts either… There may be others we haven’t discovered but who knows? Hydras… the probably best ones? They’re also probably the best alternative to the Flood dragons especially as they can be Water element.
I adore the Cyclopes and Golems; they have such wild movesets in different ways, don’t they? Griffons of course, and then Cockatrices… well, there’s good reason CP says you haven’t played this game in full if you’re not scared of “chickens” yet!
Honestly, between these and Octopuses - and if you consider Reptiles as monsters too (they’re not counted but they fall between this and human classes almost…) - there’s definitely a lot of fun to be had!
While cockatrices are fascinating, even overpowered if you stuff them full of charms like a Thanksgiving turkey, they lack the huge AoE of windstorm and the massive self-heal that gryphons get from bloody hook. I think petrification makes up for it, but I don't think it pushes them ahead of gryphons. (A lot of the hardest fights in the game, a gryphon fixes.)
I think arc dragons are ranked too high just from a practical standpoint. You're basically never afraid of enemy arc dragons, and your arc dragons never get into position to holy breath a caster before they cast their big spell. San Bronsa has a level where you're down a pit with a ton of holy dragons above you spitting holy breath down on your shaman, and that lets them shine. But in normal gameplay, against the stages the game throws at you, they're just too slow to reach casters the way a gryphon can.
For cyclopes, did you know they can use the unholy apocrypha? Talk about a seriously weird unit. I think they deserve A tier, though. Their huge health pool and low defense means they get surrounded by enemies... who are then disabled by reeking meetballs and stinky feet and all of their other gross abilities. But they counter melee and ranged (via boulder throw) hard, and they generate mana from hitting and being hit.
I feel bad seeing octopodes so low, but I think they make up for it by being available as overpowered zombies at the start of Chapter 2 when Pharompa opens up that first wing. The skulltopus (zombie octopus) in there is extremely strong in the early game, so maybe it's okay that they fall by the way side.
But I'd toss golems down there with them. Rampart aura is neat when broaden force goes off, but I've never seen anyone use them in a way that makes them better than... well, any other monster.
I agree with your assessment for the most part @ValeVin.
Cockatices and Gryphons are almost equal really; I'd say it's not really enough to put one a tier higher than the other.
Arc dragons should probably be in B tier. You said the reasons why; most of the time they won't be able to make use of spoil spell to gimp enemy magic users. They're not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it's just they won't be able to use their niche often enough for it to matter. Personally I find Hydras far more useful than Arc Dragons. Poison is almost always useful.
I almost agree with your cyclops assessment, though I can't put them into A tier just due to the fact that they have poor accuracy with status magic without a ton of investment or someone there to hit them with a spellstrike buff. They have this issue throughout the game really. They're still a status ailment spamming nuisance, but having the option to reliably hit a ranged enemy with something that disables them while being annoying vs melee enemies would be the perfect.
I also hate seeing octopi that low but it makes sense; great early game performance, but without water they're not so hot. Plus all beasts/dragons end up having their damage fall way off, which really hurts octopi since damage dealing is pretty much what they're for.
Golems are meh, I fully agree. You can just use a dragon for the role golems have and get more out of it. They are walls for sure, but there's not much more they can do other than the odd stun here and there. Granted, dragons can't wall things like golems can, but still, you rarely need that much of a wall. I would say they're D.
This definitely ain’t a game where in “meta” terms, everything is consistently the same level of effective throughout; certain classes are great at a particular time, or else they come in clutch on particular maps. With that in mind, the Octopus became available early in the PSP onwards (Rhea Boum Aqueduct wasn't a place in the original version) so we could find new utilities in the gameplay; there's a lot of maps in Chapter 2 & 3 in which they'll be useful but they also can keep up somewhat; even in Chapter 4, there's a few battlefields (plus sidequests) in which they can help out too…
Have you ever thought about doing challenge runs in tactics ogre, fire emblem, or unicorn overlord like no items or no use of certain classes. Just a thought. I enjoy your play throughs. Just finished unicorn overload myself.
I've actually been meaning to do berserker only run for a while.
I got into tactics ogre and decided to try and make my main hero a beast master and recruit a bunch of monsters, but around the middle of chapter 2 I think, my army kind of stopped being effective. Everything just started to take too much damage and not deal enough. I just don't know how to get around a lot of the fights. The difficulty just kept creeping higher to the point where I lost interest. I'd like to finish it one day, but making the army I want just seems like too much work.
Sorry, man! I hope you come back sometime and try again or with interest in a different party or play style, it’s a great game :)
IIRC, I think you are massively underrating False Strike, and by proxy Thunder Dragons. From what I remember, any abilities that reduce accuracy reduce the cap of accuracy, so if a unit was going to hit 100% of the time, False Strike would knock that down to 80% of the time. That's a 20% reduction in damage, and can potentially save units when you have regular attacks that can one-shot squishy units.
So compared to other dragons whose status effects honestly don't do much, Thunder Dragons, on the front lines, can largely reduce enemy damage. I'd put them similar to Red Dragons who have a slightly better overall ability in Weaken since I think that reduced all damage, but both abilities have their uses.
False Strike is incredible when paired with Dodge buff and Stun debuff (and Parry), but imho in a vacuum where you only have access to the one debuff, Weaken is better for the targets that need to be mitigated. Usually those targets are the bosses with 4 cards and Weaken is the difference in a finisher 1-shotting your guy and doing 80% of their max HP. I'd rather heave to heal that damage up every turn than have to rez AND heal someone every round that I don't get that 20%.
My game of TO Reborn became a lot easier when I started investing in Rune Fencer. Hmm, I wonder who's tier list helped?
😁
Yay it's 2/3rds of my party, the dragons.
Dragons cool;
Tier List starts at 4:01