We're Still Confused About How to Sail Our Catamaran (Please help)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- We're still not entirely sure how to sail our catamaran.
In this week's episode, we get a rare downwind sail and it has us scratching our head. Can we fly a headsail without our main sail? We'd love to hear your comments on this one!
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Hey there! We're Nick and Terysa and we’ve become completely obsessed with the idea of sailing around the world and sharing our experiences and information through our sailing lifestyle videos with others.
We met travelling around India, and quickly agreed that rather than “settling down” and doing what most normal people do, we wanted to travel and have adventures! We moved onto our 38 foot monohull in 2014, sailed across the Atlantic twice, cruised the Caribbean, Bahamas and Europe, before buying a brand new 45 ft catamaran!
We hope you enjoy what we do. Please subscribe, like and share.
A couple thoughts: Forget about a parasail! Sailing is a balance between efficiency and effort. You have everything you need and gain very little compared to effort with a parasail. One thing I would like you to get is a quality headset pair. Instead of yelling back and forth when anchoring or mooring you will find it so nice to just speak naturally. It also avoids any confusion. Just my thoughts! Beautiful boat and wonderful channel.
Agree, especially about the head sets. Marriage Savers, seem to be among the best recommended.
Best wishes all.
I dunno, those parasails are fairly wicked, such a stable sail!
@@Danndamannn As Nick said, no response to the query on warranty, if they fly one, and something goes sideways!
Any suggestions for a great headset? Preferably voice activated. My wife and I are using our iphones with airpods, but there are some obvious shortcomings here. We notice that the clear and calm communication is not only a "marriage saver", but also helps us dock and manuever a whole lot smoother even when conditions are rough.
I've read all 207 comments that have been made so far. Concur with hiring a pro for a few days to go over those specific items you have questions about; particularly procedures/maneuvers that can hurt you or the boat. I retired from training pilots at a major American airline. Even those highly trained pilots undergo Recurrent training every 9 months. Sail by the Seawind operating manual Nick. Getting a Pro from Dover on board for a little while is sage advice.
Our lagoon 440 has same restrictions. But as we are out of warranty, most of us will just pull tight on the main sheet and topping lift and create a temporary backstay to offset any spinnaker/parasailor.
That requires a lot of trust in your mainsail track. Some owners even go as far as adding g10 backing plates.
Speaking of backing plates, make sure that boom preventer deck attachment is really reinforced. The builders will say nothing bad will happen, but I know multiple catamarans with cleats ripped off because a preventer was tied.
Even on a grey day with muted colours, it looked beautiful. 4K was just the icing on the cake
This is why I like you guys so much saying it all out there. Can't wait for you both to be with the Wynns again two couples that put things in reality. Thank you.
You guys are going through important times in understanding your boat. Perfection can drive you from peace and enjoyment of our lives.
@1:47 what a fantastic view out the windows. Ruby Rose had great nautical interior, RR2 is like modern higher end hotel with an ever changing killer view. Sail safe.
Loving you 2 getting back in the groove with each other and the boat. Thank you
Can't wait to see you guys join the Wynns again.
Thank you for this pleasant sailing place, what a beautiful peaceful area, sure I would love to sail to this place too for some time, the beach and cooking seem perfect to relax. Do not worry about editing, it's all fine with your slected music from here.🩴🩳👙🎶⛵
You left everyone confused about Nick ripping the Bunnings situation. Only Aussies and Kiwis would know it’s the hat he’s wearing, bought at Bunnings, the equivalent of home depot in the States.
Hello, I was watching your channel and sall your question about sailing a spinaker only. I am a long time sailor. I have been racing sailboats for 30yrs. I believe that if you attach your main halyard to the outboard end of your boom and make the mai. Sheet tight this will act as a back stay and should counter act the force of a spinaker. Your main sail and main sheet do the same thing
You two are awesome in different ways that compliment each other and glad you share
For the preventer create a line the length of the boom which stays on the boom full time. You may need to add one on each side of the boom depending on the best attachment point. Then you run a preventer to a turning block either at the midship cleat or further forward. When it's time to set it up, you attach the preventer to the line at the gooseneck instead of the clew end of the boom. If the preventer is running all the way to a block at the bow you should be able to put enough tension on the line without having the attachment point run into the block. Hope this is clear.
I would love to see a list of all of the things that you guys are doing well together because I know there are so many. I love that through it all -- you too are still able to smile and enjoy each other. I love that part when you sneak up behind Terysa and her whole demeanor smiles. I love how y'all hold space for each other.
A grey overcast day with the muted colours has its beauty. You have done a great job capturing that, and to quote Dennis Denuto, Yeh it's just the vibe.
lol, it's just the vibe!
Wow, that place looks like heaven
Tranquil, indeed. Love the sounds and sights of that! Thanks for bringing us all there for a relaxing and super enjoyable episode. ⛵
Wow, what a spot! None of those noisy fishing boats...yes, tranquil. I hope that your day there was as spectacular as it looked.
To prevent inversion of the mast have a strong topping lift, center the boom, and tension the main sheet. This will keep the mast head back and drive the boom forward preventing inversion.
Spot on.
@@DarrenBainbridge the bottom line is it is plainly (imho) a non robust design. A (well designed) monohull rig has forward lowers, or at the very least a baby stay. The cat has nothing that prevents inversion other than the main, and yes the vang and boom will stabilize the rig forward, but only so much. Those rigs are not something I would go round the world with, but people like their cats and people do it just fine so what do I know!
But I would listen to the engineer. They really toe the line of juuuuuuust strong enough, and that guy knows you cannot push the rig because it is designed *just so*. That is not how boats should be built, but sadly it is how they are built today, so you must follow the load limits carefully.
@WetterWater42 No one said to ignore the engineers but going back to the engineers with well informed questions and ideas is important. RR2 is trying to understand how to sail their boat better and asking "what if we ..." questions are important. Sailing downwind with only a main can be dangerous. Having the center of effort too far abaft of beam leads to poor handling and the possibility of broaching.
I'm not sure how cars give vertical support since they run freely in the vertical direction. If you want halyard tension you can snap shackle the halyard to the gooseneck and tension. This would "string the bow" and aid somewhat. A reasonable additional "what if we .." question to ask.
The bottom line is that they need to have sail plans for all conditions and contingencies for changes in conditions. This means understanding the boats capabilities and good seamanship. Being able to move the center of effort forward for light downwind conditions that, when a squall hits unexpectedly, won't breaking the rig OR broach the boat.
@WetterWater42 That's why you rely on your understanding of what you hear from the engineers. With my engineering degree I'll have an informative discussion with the engineers about what the actual concern is, thank you very much.
SeaWind aught to know better then to ignore Nicks inquiries. It's been a while since we had a full blown Nick rant but I can sense one coming on this topic! Nick and Tyresa may not know all the answers but they know all the questions and that a whole lot more then a lot of us !! ....... Stay Safe & Fair Winds!! ☘
WOW ... That is a VERY beautiful place .Got to add it to my bucket list. Your extremely lucky ....
Gosh that scenery is stunning!
What a gorgeous place! Great video as always.
You are both two stunningly beautiful human beings in every way. Your learning curve is a challenge that you will overcome and as you do your home will bring more joy to you and those of us who are privileged to spend brief moments with you. It is so reassuring that in amongst our troubles around the world that people such as you show us yes we have problems but look at how beautiful this place is, thank you.
Soup spoon girl myself. I somehow did not know you were a paramedic. Thank you for your service.
I hope you get the sails figured out.
Okay that soup looked sooooo good.
Enjoy
❤❤
So good to see you enjoying it and beginning to make new and diff memories. Looking forward to the new adventures. HUGS
Hi guys, Dave and Magda here. We were the tech side of Spanish Catana for 6 years and I am also an ex rigger. Point 1, your mast spreaders look to be inline (not swept) which does put your mast at more risk of inversion (flexing out of column). 2, even the parasail can be a sod to get in the bag without shadowing from main. Same with reefing a big asym kite. Do not think of it as either/or. Good setup is deeper reefed main than you need (for support and foresail reefing safety) plus the big one out front. More balance and more safety. Also boat is already settled and running when you deploy foresail so less shock loading as foresail fills. We spent 6 yrs training owners how to handle their boats long range, easy and safe always wins.
It is not the sun that makes the videos beautiful but the people who are filming this and sharing their life. Hang in there and you will figure this all out.
High performance multihulls do not do well going straight downwind; so it's important to heat it up around 90 degrees with Asymetric spinnaker and tension the mainsheet and travel out and the boat will take off like a rocket and drive deep on the puffs and up in the lulls.
Yes I agree a performance cat usually sails better when you keep the apparent wind around 90 and jibe downwind, it takes some learning, but it’s very satisfying to sail in this manner
But they’re cruising and want to relax. Running a symmetric spinnaker without the main to go dead downwind is super relaxing - just like a magic carpet ride. You go half the true wind speed directly where you want to go. Easy peasy.
Gybing back and forth for greater boat speed (but not necessarily greater VMG downwind) can be stressful and requires active steering. It’s more work, especially if you have to furl the forward sail with each gybe. Note that 90* apparent wind angle is really tight and would mean a code 0/gennaker, not an asymmetric spinnaker.
as you are asking for help, here what I would do
1. get a professional skipper on board
2. sail nearby a marina where modifications can be done
3. put on hold these videos to spend time understanding your boat (at least you Nick)...
in a month or so all the small problems will be solved, and you should be able to enjoy your boat a lot more than you do currently
That's almost exactly what I commented a few weeks ago, They need a professional catamaran sailor who can teach them how to sail a catamaran, and there's no other way. Or it's war time. Peace is better.
Agree. Even 5-days with a professional skipper will help alleviate a lot of problems.
Beautiful scence!
Different scale but on Dinghy catamarans (F18) you center the main and crank on the mainsheet to support the mast when flying a geneker downwind. Might be an option for your parasail?
Exactly the same on a bigger cat. Spot on
I know this place well having spent about 3 New Years around the captain Hook resort. When the sun shines it is truely outstanding. There's still a lot more bays for you to explore around there and the west side of Ko. Mak.
What a beautiful place
Good God. I will not comment on the sailing but will suggest that you stow the preventer half way down to boom so you do not have to go all the way to the end.
It's always enlightening to hear different names for common items--'Tomato sauce' for ketchup/catsup. 😎
It’s always enlightening to hear different names for common items- ‘ketchup/catsup’ for tomato sauce.
@@joannabrown2995 😄
I sail all,the time with a Parasailor on cats. The answer is to keep the mainsheet very tight without the main up and then the topping lift and mainsheet in combination act as a backstay
Glad to see you getting the hang of the boat. I was getting a bit worried for you.
Oh my god! That’s looks amazing! Love that resort!
❤ big up to small human, 👍😊 absolutely bang on tyrese, tomato sauce on everything, well done Aussie girl, hopefully it is watties, I'll understand if it's not being you guys are out and about, he he ,❤looking awesome out there you two, 🌏😊👍 stay strong. ❤
That place is stunning!
We do agree that sailing just the spinnaker could cause mast inversion on your setup. Probably not in very light conditions, but in stronger winds, yes. On our catamaran we can do it, because we do have backstays and we do have 7/8 rig. We use the asymetric on its own and as well together with the mainsail. It works...try it again. We never go dead downwind anyway. Don´t believe it makes sense on a catamaran, a little reaching brings much better performance (VMG). Would running backstays probably be an option to install?
Could feel the vibes. So nice!
I went through the same inversion debate when i re rigged my 12m Dazcat.
Consider the forces on your rig if you fly only a very large spinnaker. The wind is behind you and you will be doing maybe half windspeed over the ground. If a gust hits you the force on the rig at the top will increase dramatically untill your boat accelerates. The rig will want to invert. Your boat is pretty heavy..perhaps 14 t or more loaded hence will not accelerate as easily as a light boat. (My boat is 7.5 t loaded) Remember the force on the rig is proportional to the square of the apparent wind!
I wanted to be able to do exactly what you want to do...fly a big symmetrical kite. My mast is a 17 m carbon rig from Selden. I have dyneema running backstays and a removable dyneema inner forestay. The backstays stop the top of the rig moving and the inner forestay stops the middle of the mast moving aft. Probably dont need the running backstays however if you haul down on the main sheet you should have the main halyard attached to the boom and it should be made of non stretch dyneema. The caveat to this is whether the main sheet mast fittings can take the loads generated at the angle created. Only the rig manufacturer can tell you that.
I suggest you talk to the rig manufacturer as they are the only people that really understand the rig design.
When exploring a new location, I agree to doing some research to identify historic places that are must see, but do not make a plan when you start. Let things evolve. That is the best way. You will always run into some pleasant surprises.
You tighten your boom lift and your main sheet and it will work as a backstay to compensate the forces of a spinnaker or parasailor.
Check in with YoungBarnacles… they mentioned it as well in some of their videos.
Hope helps
nother charming episode! Thank you for sharing! Cheers!
put a lot of tension on the backstay and sheet. if you don't want to use the main with spinnaker. We don't have a spinnaker just an asym so we use our main with it. But if I had a kite I'd put the main down and tension the backstay to keep the mast in shape. I'd still check with Seawind though. They might insist on a sail being up.
7:14 Since your boat doesn't have a backstay your mainsail acts as your backstay; so you can have your spinnaker up or a parasail. It's important to have tension on the mainsail; so you do not damage your rig. 7:14
look closer - from what i saw it has diagonal back stays - which unfortunately limits the extend that the main can be opened out for true downwind drifting.... you really must sail to the wind - flow across the sail/s will give much better performance than direct course! even the Asymmetric only works with flow across it...
I spent years Dinghy sailing before I got a big boat and my last one was a twin hull Laser Vortex, with an asymmetric and main and it would fly a hull in 15knts if you went no deeper than a broad reach - put it down wind and it crawled like a bathtub.
My Bavaria 34 with a just Parasail easily did 8knts reaching in 10/12knt true... your cat should perform much better if you "SAIL" her....
I doubt if your conservative sailing could invert the mast with just the fore sail. but if you sail for Drive rather than pure heading you might have to throw in a few gybes/tacks but you will get places quicker....(IMHO)
Pray tell, how the leech of an eased mainsail, in a rig that has no kicker (vang) provides any meaningful aft leading support to the rig? Leech tension will be low, to allow the head of the main to twist off in the gusts. Example two, we would often fly an asso with a double or triple reefed main (to ensure that the slot for air leaving the kite is wide, wide open, to remove the scope for overpowering/weather helm in the gusts). The main in this configuration is way below the intermediate hounds, and provides zero support at the masthead.
The issue here is deep downwind sailing, and how to prevent the masthead bending forward of the hounds, thus causing the lower section of the mast to bend aft and invert. Cruising cats on long ocean passages love symmetric kites, with one clew to each bow (or an asymmetric hauled to weather). It's stress free, and relaxing. Subject to acceptable lead angles, I'd upgrade the topping lift to dyneema, and use THAT and the mainsheet( with a stowed main) to replace the support that the leech would have provided upwind.
Absolutely agree. A mainsail going down wind will provide minimal support of masthead.
Now that reply seems to make good sense!
From my experience sailing my previous cat which was a 2009 Leopard 40, we did over 27 000nm on her over 7 years. We ONLY sailed her with an asymmetrical spinnaker up and no main sail. We sailed our whole Atlantic crossing with the asymmetrical spinnaker. We also sailed her a lot with only the Genoa out for short hops. In fact the final reefing schedule on the Leopard range of cats across the board is mainsail down and a sliver of Genoa out for direction in the 35+ knot range of wind. The first time I ever came across the no headsail only was helping a friend sail their Lagoon 400S2 cat from Portugal to the Canaries and their manual specifically says no foresail only which I found very strange. A few pointers cats don’t do well at past 120 degrees downwind with a main and jib/Genoa and a self tacking jib for downwind is useless as you found out. On my current cat which is a Catana 47 which we have sailed over 1000nm in the past year we have sailed her with only Genoa out in 32 knots of wind. We do have a carbon mast with only one set of shrouds, no half stays and only one set of diamonds although they are rod diamonds not wire. When I was considering changing my shrouds from 16mm 1x19 wire and asked the factory if I could substitute this for 14mm dyform wire the factory said I needed to consult the Mast manufacturer as they spec’ced the mast with 1x 19 x 16mm wire or 25000kgb/s Kevlar shrouds. Sadly the mast manufacturer is out of business so I need to stick with 1x 19wire at 16mm. What I am saying is chat to your mast manufacturer about what sails you can have up when. Downwind I find the asymmetrical spinnaker the easiest sail with only 1 sheet to control starting at 75 degrees all the way to 160 degrees flying the tack on a 1m floating line off the bow and tylaska shackle on the tack.
Nice looking Cat. Enjoy sailing her. Cheers.
Watch Sail GP and see how they go downwind. They dont sail with the wind directly behind , they gybe downwind on a reach to keep the sails full, similar to how you tack upwind.
Run a loop of dyneema around your boom between the 1st an 2nd reef lines. Then take a spare line an attach it to that and run it to a block outboard on the deck then back to a winch. That way you can ease it all when everything has calmed down and you don't have to touch anything else just it let it all go back down the track. That's how we do it when racing an cruising. Just I simple idea to give it a go.
Wow, those cicadas! My ears, my skull! 😮
Looked like yummy food and gorgeous scenery.
Stow the preventer at the gooseneck!
You going to need runners fed to back corners of boat with split to 2 lines at 3/4 and 1/2 ht typically.
Or have you tried running both headsails you have on the roller furlers wing on wing? Main less?
Cheers Warren
How do you manage your grey water in these pristine environments?
Can you/should you, slow down to reduce the wave wash on narrow waterways
On my Mumby 48, the only time I'll fly the masthead spinnaker with no main is in very light breeze. I don't like doing it though, as if you do get caught out in an increasing breeze, you're risking the rig and you have no main to blanket the spin to help get it down.
A few options:
- Sail a hot enough angle that you can keep wind in the genoa/code sail/asym. You'll pick up VMG by doing this, especially in lighter wind.
- If sailing really deep, sheet the main on hard on the centre line and the wind will flow around it to the spin
- If sailing dead down wind, sail wing on wing, with main on one side (with a preventer) and the genoa or code sail sheeted wide on the other. This is my go to for heavier wind if the destination is DDW. It'll usually get the better VMG for little effort and a super chill ride.
Your shrouds look set well aft, surely they could handle the forces. I guess its belt and braces from the manufacturer. Don't they have any studies or tests conducted to give you wind speed limits?
You’re spot on. All the monohul comments above have totally ignored the swept back spreaders that prevent mast inversion. The only issue is the small amount of unsupported mast above the shrouds and the solution is not to fly the spinnaker in 30kt! LOL
Groovy episode
Sorry forgot to say, short run is also sweet with just the stock foresails wing-wing if you can sheet the Solent/staysail wider.
The learning curve between a monohull and a cat, has been well demonstrated here by you guys and you’re doing great! Your first 6 months will be your toughest! Ironically the Wynns have had champagne sailing so far!
The Wynns had Curiosity 1, now they have Curiosity 2…both cats, Ruby Rose 1 was a monohull. There is definitely a learning curve😊
Sailing Awen have recently changed from an FP Cat to an Outremer 52 and sailed it across the Atlantic for the Miami Boat Show with professional help on board. They had Nicki Henderson on the Canaries to Martinique leg who is a very experienced sailor/instructor,giving various tips re sails/rigging the boat to suit Holly and Stephane even though Stephane comes from a racing background it seemed to be worth it having a pro onboard for the knowledge 😊
dead downwind, put a small symetrical spinnaker up You can also put up your headsail and use a barberhauler to hold it out. Drop the main, but have the mainsheet in hard and the topping lift in hard so that they act like a backstay-- in light winds it doesn't matter but in over 10 it probably does. This comes from my own experience of our 12m cat (performance cat with daggerbaords) as well as from Shayne of Young Barncles. Phil
Editing, editing, editing, editing...bacon. Proof that bacon is good anytime, anywhere.
If you're running downwind (160 or greater) on short runs and don't want to fly the asym, I run wing on wing.
Tighten the boom up hall and tighten the main sheet center of boat. Counter headsail pull.
Happy days
'Repping the Aussie's bunniings' sounds WAY more interesting than worrying too much about inverted whatevers! :-0
very nice video, y'all are getting the hang of her.
Great video!
Ketchup on eggs is a Canadian thing too Nick.....cheers you two👍
Being an EMT and food, I have an overson to ribs and large bones in food. Mostly ribs.
Only 100 km from home but i knew nothing about it. will need to go check that place out.
excellent episode you guys!
Of course you can use a head sail without the main up. The main sail does not counterbalance the mast when sailing downwind, quite the opposite. When sailing downwind with just a head sail, just tighten the main sheet hard (with the main down), and that will act as a back stay. The main sail pushes the mast forward when sailing downwind, not backwards. So, main down and main sheet tight creates a back stay, and that is what you need with your spinnaker and a parasailor.
What a stunning place - I hope you get the chance to get back there. Maybe earplugs are needed at night - I really thought there was an alarm going off until you explained it!
Those cicadas at then end would drive me crazy 😯
The sail documentation for our Lagoon 410, what little there is of it, says not to sail with only the genoa up, always use the mainsail too. This is again stressed for reefing: Always keep a balance of main and genoa. They warn that the mast will break. Essentially the mainsail acts a backstay.
BTW: Thailand looks beautiful and not crowded.
And.... Wing&wing is an option for downwind sailing, but tacking downwind is faster ... and more work.
Just wondering how far you two are from Jason and Nikki? The seem to be in Subic Bay this post today! They can share more with you two if you are near them!
Do as you are told!!!!
i just wonder when you do the review of Wynns HH :D woud be interesting to see your view also on their one :)
We need longer videos from Ruby Rose!!!
They would like you to subscribe to their patron page where you get more
looks like a nice place
Hi there, I suggest to stick to the book as the builders of the catamaran dictate, not worth to give up your warranty on your yacht for more speed or comfort. Learn to sail as the designers of the yacht intended it to be sailed!
Ah the serenity
I love to see what the foods you guys prepare
We never sailed our seawind 1000 or 1200 without a main up, even in very strong winds. Mind you the headsail was so small you could barely call it a sail. That came from big R. However we didn’t have parasailors or code zero. I wonder if running back stays would solve the issue. I wouldn’t try it out without getting professional advice.
Tom Kha (coconut soup) is my favourite, in fact I had tonight. Nice video
Pandemonium is popular this week. Salt and Tar just used it in their video. Subtle advert for MJ Sailing?
Not quite the same as the Parasailor but big and downwind and seemingly very convenient.
Ever thought about a Elvstom Blue Water Runner?
Always have to have my proper spoon!
As far as I understand, all these performance cats are made for vmg running with the main over sheated. That is the performance part of it
Bacon bun should have had an egg in it and a hash brown. Vandals. 😂
Great video
Well, It's just the area above the shrouds that is unsupported. The leach tension on the main is supposed to act like a backstay for the upper unsupported part of the mast to resist the spinnaker halyard load. In light air it's fine to have no main, but if the wind is over 8-10 id imagine its possible for sure you can fold the top of the mast off. 18 foot cats can do it if you don't keep the main sheeted in downwind. Also a parasailer probably isnt bending the wind enough to interact with the main since you are going so deep. An asymmetric spin is basically a big jib and should have the boat sailing with at least 90 degrees apparent where you can start to get the main to get attached flow if it's travelled out, possibly not even that much if you are above 90 a bit. Just remember not to try and twist the main off like you would with the jib. Keep sheet tension about half way between upwind and downwind settings is probably ball park
Several catamarans on the GLYWO have a parasail. They're all Outremer, performance cats. They rave about the sail. Sv Biotrek maybe?
Install two spectra running backstays to be used when downwind sailing. Using the mainsail has many negatives, flogging, noise, chaffing, constant stress, and worrying about the autopilot failing to cause a jibe. keep it in the bag out of the sun, it's okay up to 120 off the wind after it takes more concentration to hold a course. Cats are perfect for flying a spinnaker downwind with two hulls for the tack & the clew lines, and plenty of adjustment to play with.
I have thought about is: Could you use a tensioned topping lift with a tensioned main sheet as a backstay when flying a code sail?
Sure can, with a low stretch topping lift. One problem is that there is no blanketing the kite when dousing it, which can be an issue when the wind strength is higher. Don't really understand why you would put a masthead kite on a cruising cat. Most times smaller kites are damn near as quick, fill easier in light airs (when most often used) and are all round easier to handle. Just my two cents worth....
Is it just me, or is the older brother in Netflix "the Gentelman" based on Nick.....😜