As a Feral main my main takeaway is that blizz is gonna do some tuning to make boss crits matter in SoD. Anyone who tanked in Vanilla Classic knows that we straight up ignored defense cap because boss crits weren't dangerous enough to care about getting defense capped, combined with the greater emphasis on threat generation. From the looks of it, all tanks are gonna have runes that give giga turbo ultra godmode threat gen, damage reduction, AND (for some) crit immunity, which to me suggests that bosses are gonna slap pretty hard. Either that or the tank classes that get crit immunity from runes will just rely on the damage reduction runes to make up for the lack of chonk on gear, and run DPS gear to completely gigapump threat Edit: the optimal comp to run a Feral tank will be to have a 2nd Feral there as DPS to provide Mangle & Wild Strikes for the tank (and the rest of the phys group) so the Feral tank can run SotF and Lacerate. If the extra DR and threat doesn't end up being necessary then having a Feral DPS there won't be as big of a deal, but that could potentially be a reason to NOT use a Feral tank in 10mans
@@cptvtd-gg some of the damage buffs are a bit crazy. Warriors got 2 25% damage buff runes and potentially another 10% damage buff with single minded fury if they take it. This means potentially 60% more damage from warriors at just level 25. I cannot imagine what this damage will look like for a level 60 warrior with full buffs and other runes added to the mix.
I actually think later on in the Season what they could do is drop Defense Gear entirely, and just give Gear Dodge, Parry and Block, and make it so you have to have the tank rune/talent to become crit immune. Defense is a cool idea, but for the most part has been ignored because damage isn't high enough overall and they also didnt wanna make damage impossible to deal with if they didnt have Defense cap (new gear, newer player, etc). I say drop Defense, give more Avoidance stats, and just up the damage. Then people can gear for Avoidance/Mitigation, or go for more damage if they want imo.
The best thing about SoD is buffing the availability of tanks in general which will make it easier to find tanks perhaps more easier than finding healers. Thats great.
@@gotboostlag the other thing is if you look at retail for example you have .. 6 tanking classes(Druid war dk dh paladin monk) and still tank is always instaqueue, difficult to find generally
@@andrewg_bin classic the bigger issue is that the only viable raid tank is Warrior and Warrior is a painful slog to level. Personally I don't like playing warrior so I don't tank. But with Shaman getting a tank spec and Bear Druid getting new stuff I'm finally interested.
@@TurboNemesis Biggest problem with Feral tanking in classis was gear. They aimed all the druid gear at healing... so you had to use off-set pieces and 'steal' from rogues etc. We had a feral tank in Classic and he raid tanked all the way to and thru Naxx, it can be done if you are not meta slaves.
All Feral DPS will be running Mangle as it actually replaces Claw on your bar and does vastly more damage (the 160% damage tooltip is for Bear version, wowhead has the Cat version which is 300% damage) than Claw or Shred and only costs 40 energy (35 with 5/5 Ferocity) as opposed to Claw's 40 or Shred's 60. So all Kitties will just be spamming Mangle while keeping up Ferocious Roar buff and Rip bleed meaning Bears can all grab Lacerate. I think at least in the lvl 25 bracket Warriors will be focusing on a 2h DPS build running Rend/Deep Wounds with the rage per bleed tick rune and the 20% attack speed rune to maintain a good, smooth rage generation to feed Quick Strike spam as it is their only option for an instant attack rage dump at that early of a level. This means Mangle bleed buff will be huge as it benefits both Feral builds, Warriors, and Rogues all at the same time.
If mangle works the way it did in TBC then Mangle is going to be far more valuable for damage and threat than Lacerate. Lacerate barely beats Swipe for threat generation in TBC and gets outclassed by Swipe in Hyjal
I love the clip of MrGM because it sums up what I witnessed analysing his vod for the warlock tank info, disinterested, head in the clouds and no idea what his buttons did.
Something to note on Paladins. Like in TBC, you will have mana issues as a tank if you get TOO tanky. It returns mana based on the amount HEALED. So if you are mitigating enough damage / blocking enough attacks, you'll have issues. It happned to our tank a lot :D
What would be amazing if to have each of these tanks truly have a niche to the point where some will go DPS on certain fights instead of tanking, and you'd swap when it's efficient to do so.
I hope Rogue will be viable and accepted as a tank because it's only about 1 target, parry and dodge at this state. Nothing for magic damage or aoe threat. Wait and see, it's still good enough for me to be excited about this and it's only the level 25 phase after all.
Warlocks will 100% be tanking as pure destro. No need for Corruption. Mana reduction on Shadow Cleave and Searing pain, increased crit chance on all your most used spells will be more dps and more threat.
im 100% with you, until lvl40 when lock unlocks Siphon Life i dont see 'yet' why we wouldn't go full destro. Literally cannot wait because i wanna see if DL/Siphon Life+hellfire tanking in open world will be possible.
yeah i think it comes down to how much mitigation you need. in a lot of instances i can absolutely see destro or aff tank be a thing for more threat. If you need the mitigation it might be a demo angle as a 30% damage reduction via soul link all the time might be too strong. Also with holy paladins getting beacon of light they can easily keep you and your pet alive at the same time. But this is obviously all theory crafting for late game stuff. At level 25 you are probably correct that it will be destro.
You guys get it. I imagine it will take warlock mains dabbling in melee combat for the first time a bit of an adjustment period, so use to relying on SL. My friends, please don't hard cast immolate while you're tanking, you can't dodge.
My bear is going survival of the fittest chest rune when tanking, i ain’t taking crits to the face just to cater to the warriors/rogues dps meters with wind fury, that’s a cat/shaman job to offer.
@@tableslam this. alot of people will be doing HEAPS more damage, meaning more threat that the other tanks classes will need to fight for. seeing as bear alrdy gets crit immune extremely early on, they can just stack attack damage/armor/health this is TBC druid all over again and will wipe the floor in terms of best raid tank.. ESPECIALLY FOR SPELL MITIGATION
HAHA! Ya that's gonna be me. 5/31/15 with instant corrupt, soulburn and daze effect. I pray they give us felguard as a pet on a rune. Honestly people probably gonna be more scared of the Chaos bolt and fire locks because they can penetrate through all shields.
@@lance1625 nah dude the only classes that could have kill soul link lock were phys dps now with that much armor and soul link you just gonna be 1vs2 arena dueling
@@packy000stanek6 they rly need to reduce dmg on tanking runes, else you just get free dubstain while being a full dps class. worse even for pvp. I heared WL is already a raidboss in pvp with demonform any only paladins can battle them with exorcism. this will not stay that way
I’m really excited to dual wield rock biter on caster bosses as Shaman. Threat will be insane! They have a talent to take 10% less fire/frost/nature damage as well as grounding totem to really cheese some magic encounters. It plays a lot like spell reflect for warriors and classic is not designed around that generally
Yeah i honestly think people are really overlooking dual wield spec on shamans and it not being spec specific. The fact it gives 5% melee and spell hit means it will be potentially really good for all specs. Ele shamans duel wield 2 end game caster weapons and a free 5% spell hit seems a bit crazy to me. Like you said depending on the fight you could even run it as tank shaman if you don't need block for some crazy threat generation and ranged threat.
So keep rockbiter on mainhand for increased threat overall. Rockbiter already has double threat in classic so by dual wielding you're literally doubling your melee threat generated. @@zekemckain4236
Would that be worth giving up overload though. 5% spell hit is basically 5% damage while overload is 30% chance to do 50% more damage coming out to be a 15% damage gain. So offhand weapon stats would have to be 10% damage gain just to even out unless my math is wrong
definitely not going to be viable, only works on main hand and foregoing a shield foregoes you all the massive buffs you get from the shield rune. vast majority of vanilla raids are melee dmg too
Righteous Fury has a base 60% threat bonus. Hand of Reckoning increases it TO 80%, it is not being increased BY 80%. Divine Sac is PARTY wide, not RAID wide.
Something to remember about rogue tanking and Main Gauche/Bladedance both increase your threat via parry haste. I think it should not be underestimated
Seems to me like Rogue tanks will want both hands to be slow weapons for harder hitting Sinsinter Strikes/Parry Hastes and for harder hitting Main Gauche.
Wish the warlock did not completely transform, but instead look like the 'Dark Apotheosis' transformation from mists of pandaria. At least you can see your gear progression than.
Vs the new eng shammy yes but shaman always sucked in pvp, vs warrior the extra parry will also be nice but eh rogues already owned warriors.... vs pala it depends if they pala can HOJ and one tap you, but rogues do have more tools for bleeds and dodges now so i think it will be about the same and mostly in the paladins favour so long as they are ret/prot and well geared. The biggest thing from a rogues point of view for pvp is ambush and backstab costing only 40 energy, and the ranged stun will be huge at lvl 25.
But blizzard doesn't understand, when they add kings to horde (in 10 man setting) that the hunter is locked out of bm as their aspect won't be benefiting from IAOTH and is forced out of bm. All that for what seems to be a PARTY kings... further comparing shamans with paladins show how useless they are as their strength of earth is their only attempt compare with might and wisdom (and the buffs can be applied to whole raid not just group)
Really feels like warrior gets lots of these Benefits from their talents and gear already, that's why they don't have the DR/crit redux rune. We can talent Defense, +threat, blocking etc. as well as having VERY defensive gear, esp in our classic tier sets (the other classes DONT get that). So they are adding +rage and +damage and utility. And this hints that they won't be adding whole tank sets to these classes tier gear options. Make no mistake, the combo of extra rage (esp at low level), Tclap in D stance, and Devastate, is HUGE for shield warrior tanking This will be fun.
Honestly after getting hyped from seeing the Warlock, Rogue, Shaman, Paladin changes...when he got to the Warrior runes I was almost thinking I don't even care about any of those new classes because the Warrior stuff looks so good. First off, Victory Rush is a borderline broken ability far as Vanilla is concerned. Literally the only thing stopping Warriors from being endless speed killing machines is the fact that they have no way to recover HP. Being able to get 10% of your max health every 8 seconds as long as you're killing stuff is insane. Combine that with how much rage you'll be able to have all the time from being able to use Charge in combat, 3 rage per tick on bleeds, etc. I dunno! I went into this video looking to pick one of the new tank specs to try out in SoD and I think I ended up walking away with plans to just go Warrior.
Why do people keep saying "alliance get windfury on paladins"? This comes off so misleading. Druids get the Windfury ability. I can only assume you are saying Paladin DPS and Tanks have access to windfury (via druids?)
Came here expecting more than just reading off runes, sadly didn't get that. Would love to see someone with actual deep classic wow knowledge discuss if 500% armor boost for warlock is enough to bring cloth up to plate levels? Or if 20% reduction in all damage for druid bear brings them up to levels of mitigation that shield block users have? Stuff like that...
Wait...does the Paladin Hand of Reckoning rune give mana back if you're overhealed, or only from effective healing done to you? I feel like this could get Paladins into trouble on content that doesn't hit hard enough if you're not missing much HP and then running out of mana.
So, for PvP What's stopping every player to just pick the tank rune then spec/gear for the usual dps stuff. Ignoring all other tank specific talents/runes/gear etc, and basically be a standard dps but with a permanent defensive up? How are you supposed to compete with an elemental shaman who just happens to have 30% extra hp, 10% dmg reduction and ignoring a large portion of your critical hits for example?
Idk if anyone has thought about this but I wish they would add more legendaries with their own questlines. Make them as hard to get as all the other ones but allow some other classes to get legendaries at lower level
There is one oversight in this vid! I saw no mention of the *BOOMKIN* tank, hahaha. I definitely made this work in dungeons, and it was a lot of fun. Free Wrath, 3 dots you can apply, Starsurge --- depending on what other runes end up being there, this could be a pretty good time.
not much left in wrath classic anyway. The casual guilds still have heroic LK left to kill and maybe a couple others, and I guess a few people might care about Ruby Sanctum? but it's kind of a trash filler raid, most people consider the expansion done when you kill H LK
I do hope rogues(tanks) get more tools to outline their tanking potential because right now they seem outclassed by everyone. And the wow community wouldn’t even bother with using one.
Honestly I don't think most people who want to play Rogue do so becuase they have any desire to play tank anyway. Rogue tanks are going to be people who just love rogue but want to try a new role. I don't think it's necessarily bad for it to be a rare spec or something with a high skill cap to play well. There are much easier tanks to play if someone wants to play that role but have an easier time of it. The reason Classic was fun was because not all classes could do everything as good as everyone else. Every class had its situational advantage/disadvantage.
I don't really agree at least at level 60, rogue looks like the most broken of all the tanks so far, i don't really see any way its not meta. You just attack the boss pop evasion and 30 seconds later prep and evade again. Doing so means you will have between 95 and 99% chance to have any attacks dodge parry or miss, that only leaves spell damage to harm you and you can get around that via resistence. In bis 25 gear as a buffed rogue you have 47% passive avoidence and in theory will at the start of every fight gain another 20% from parry and if you play sub ( not many will, ghostly strike for another 15%) You also have 1780hp and 31% damage reduction 51% with dance up, that's more than a warrior or paladin in mail btw, and a lot more than a druid or warlock. The only downside I can see is its a lot of tabbing between targets, and It lacks aoe. I assume rogues will get both Fan of Knives for aoe and Cloak of Shadows by level 60 tho, if they do they will be very top teir tanks.
@@alistairbolden6340 Completely agree. I am actually concerned about rogues being BIS for single target by miles, with the worst/ least geared of them probably negating half the attacks against them anyway.
won't the warlock pet potentially cause a bunch of problems with extra parry's and stuff? I wouldn't imagine the pet is going to do anything while tanking
So I must be missing something. All the new tank builds and bears get a way to completely stop crits, yet i see nothing similar for warriors and paladins. If the argument is that there is def gear for those classes then that means they will be taking crits up until 60 (phase 4 i believe), and if the new content is going to be giving them the necessary defense gear than that could/would be equally true for the others. Are the pre-plate tanks just going to be losing 80% health to some crit into fierce blow shenanigans?
I wonder if Prot Warrior with Devestate could be a thing in PvP but scared PvP will be a ranged nightmare in open world where warriors with just 1 charge going to srtuggle no?
I said this as well, they do get a totem for 20%, always have but it sucks as its group only, Horde also don't have blessing of might or more importantly for all the new tanks devotion aura. Shammy totems just suck sadly and all needed to be reworked to make them raid wide and as good as blessings. Its a crying shame this has not happened so all the raiders will still be ally.
How huge is main gauche vs mutilate? My fantasy would be rogue tanking but using mutilate to just rip faces off while I do it.. or else we are kinda just standing in front of the boss dancing lol
Im fairly sure they will, I am a RL and the only reason I see to take one would be to get another WF in the raid, even as horde. As ally it will be 100% required. With these changes raids will still be full of warriors and rogues as the main dps, the only difference really being a disk priest is looking pretty nice now and WF druids. I see druid tanks playing much the same role they always have, that being a very capable offtank but now there is a big WF size reason to take them unlike before. Most raids will also be looking to bring 3-4 cat druids now again just for the WF and bleed debuff but they are going to be fairly hard to come by.
i love rogue. if it was jut a fresh server id 100% go rogue...however they seem to be one of the least changed classes and i kind of want to play something completely different like tank demo lock or melee hunter.
i think dps rogue will be one of the highest dps, at least on single target (mutilate with no dagger requirement and boosted by opportunity is gonna be big dps), but I agree the changes aren't mindblowing or really all that interesting either, like some classes
Hmm, Metamorph=Demon Hunter...Rogue=DeathKnight..Shaman=Monk. Nice I like it though. Wait did I see a BloodElf Pally??? So what is exclusive to the alliance side if this is true? Or do we get Shammies on the alliances as well?
In melee heavy groups droods will outpace others cause the WF. It all looks like fun…. Feels bad for my warrior tho… I was hoping to get some better aoe threat/sustain.
Druid Windfury applies to the entire group. How does that put anyone else behind? Bear tanks can't run crit immunity rune and Windfury rune so I wouldn't be afraid of them overtaking warrior. Windfury rune will be on your feral DPS and buffing all melees
Rogue tank has no DR at pull, they only get DR by using their finisher. So for the first few secs of a fight, they take full damage if they get hit. And any boss that uses anything other than physical, they just take full damage from everytime. Seems the weakest of the tanks to me right now, except a few situational bosses.
They seem like they’ll have really high highs and low lows. When the parry dodge is relevant- it looks borderline broken on paper. When they’re not- oof.
Yeah rogue definitely seems the weakest overall tank at 25 (although should be fairly solid in single target situations), but more stuff will be coming for 40/50/60 so it could be that rogue is the strongest by 60, who knows. Kinda makes class-choosing so tough right now, because the shit that looks imba at 25 may be weak compared to someone else at 60
With all the new tanks, I forsee a need for more healers, priests, druids, shammys n pallys. Heals might be the lowest played archetype! I for one, hate healing others
The problem i have with crit immunity on all the new tank specs is that i worry it will make the new tanks significantly better then the old tanks due to all the free stats they get just from the runes. Warriors are basically never crit immune if you are are playing fury prot which is the meta as it is incredibly difficult to become crit enough as there is basically not enough defense on gear until around tier 2 to become crit immune especially if you are not using full mitigating gear and you are using threat gear. Maybe this just doesn't really matter and warriors still just pump threat hard enough that you run them anyways or maybe the new runes make it so deep prot tank is now the new meta instead of fury prot but will have to see.
yeah I feel like warriors are going to need a rune that gets them at least part of the way there with regards to the % crit immunity. Might not have to be the full 6 like the others got but something in the 2-4 range
Ally looks so much better than horde, even more so than before these changes. Salv on a blessing is still a hell of a lot better than salv on a totem. Horde are not getting fear ward. And paladin healers look more buffed than resto shaman. Not only that but these light armoured tanks get so much from devotion aura, and ofc horde do not get anything close to blessing of might or blessing of protection. Sarthe is being very short sighted here and putting way way to much trust in Blizzard.
Do we know if we can make both alliance and horde characters in SoD? It used to be that in a PVP server you can't have characters from both factions... If that's the case it will suck. I wanna play both shaman and paladin.
@@captainrwcg3558 Yes it is. Divine Sacrifice that redirects damage to the Paladin only affects the party. Divine Guardian the blanket 20% damage reduction, is raid wide. They are different talents. SoD is only introducing Divine Sacrifice, not Divine Guardian.
Unless boss crits will be a thing this time around. It seems to me that we get sword and board warriors around this time. Otherwise the whole crit immunity buffs to the other tanks would be irrelevant.
As a paladin tank, having to go down Holy to get Consecrate means that we don't get righteous fury - which is a huge part of threat generation and a significant chunk of the Hand of Reckoning rune text. I have been chewing on giving up aegis for Divine Storm for the snap agro, but it feels like a really hard choice.
could be an avengers shield angle as well depending on how many targets you are tanking on average in the level 25 bracket. If you are only tanking around 3 mobs on average then you could forgo consecration and just use avengers shield for that snap threat on 3 targets. it could also be that improved righteous fury isn't that big of a deal at level 25 as hand of reckoning is already improving righteous fury threat gen by 80%. I also think seal of the martyrdom is being overlooked as well for tanking. 30% weapon damage to 3 targets on every single auto that also gives mana regen to everyone in your party based on the damage you take could mean you literally never run out of mana while having constant aoe threat on every single attack and make your healer have significantly more mana to work with as well.
You get Righteous Fury at level 16 from your trainer. It has a base of +60% to threat from Holy Attacks and lasts 30 min. The skill points are used to increase its effectiveness by 16, 33 and 50, for each point. I think you can still go 11 into the holy tree and maybe 5? into prot. (for Redoubt, even though it doesn't stack with the SoD enchant, having them both proc at different times looks nice). The other question is, who is going to be putting 11 into prot (with out being able to get consecration) in order to get Blessing of Kings?
Righteous Fury is a baseline ability. You gain Improved Righteous Fury from the Hand of Reckoning rune. You also gain Redoubt and Shield Specialization from the Aegis rune. I imagine the meta spec for prot will be 11/5/0 or possibly 11/0/5. You miss out on the hit from Precision, but no prot pal is giving up Consecration.
@@kiss-shotacerola-orionhear220 I guess we'll have to see how it pans out, but one 3-target ability once a minute (30 sec?) is a lot less threat than constant aoe damage.
Anyway - Druid seems terrible, warlock i S tier and so i Warrior, Paladadin i tier A and shaman + rogue = dont bother😊 Dont follow the video plz as it’s kinda wrong
All of this wasn't necessary. Small abilities if only for HC servers, recuperate, victory rush, talent changes making unviable specs viable... Just small changes, not all this.
Leave it to Sarthe to act like he "knows the Meta" to something that blizz literaly said they aren't going to have any PTR's to prevent this exact thing LMAOOOO ...this guy don't know shit
As a Feral main my main takeaway is that blizz is gonna do some tuning to make boss crits matter in SoD. Anyone who tanked in Vanilla Classic knows that we straight up ignored defense cap because boss crits weren't dangerous enough to care about getting defense capped, combined with the greater emphasis on threat generation. From the looks of it, all tanks are gonna have runes that give giga turbo ultra godmode threat gen, damage reduction, AND (for some) crit immunity, which to me suggests that bosses are gonna slap pretty hard.
Either that or the tank classes that get crit immunity from runes will just rely on the damage reduction runes to make up for the lack of chonk on gear, and run DPS gear to completely gigapump threat
Edit: the optimal comp to run a Feral tank will be to have a 2nd Feral there as DPS to provide Mangle & Wild Strikes for the tank (and the rest of the phys group) so the Feral tank can run SotF and Lacerate. If the extra DR and threat doesn't end up being necessary then having a Feral DPS there won't be as big of a deal, but that could potentially be a reason to NOT use a Feral tank in 10mans
I mean DDs got giga dmg buffs, like Warri +25% rune etc. Guess we really need the extra threat generation.
@@cptvtd-gg some of the damage buffs are a bit crazy. Warriors got 2 25% damage buff runes and potentially another 10% damage buff with single minded fury if they take it. This means potentially 60% more damage from warriors at just level 25. I cannot imagine what this damage will look like for a level 60 warrior with full buffs and other runes added to the mix.
@@kylesmith987 ye its mental
"which to me suggests that bosses are gonna slap pretty hard. " well thats where u got blizzard wrong
I actually think later on in the Season what they could do is drop Defense Gear entirely, and just give Gear Dodge, Parry and Block, and make it so you have to have the tank rune/talent to become crit immune. Defense is a cool idea, but for the most part has been ignored because damage isn't high enough overall and they also didnt wanna make damage impossible to deal with if they didnt have Defense cap (new gear, newer player, etc). I say drop Defense, give more Avoidance stats, and just up the damage. Then people can gear for Avoidance/Mitigation, or go for more damage if they want imo.
The best thing about SoD is buffing the availability of tanks in general which will make it easier to find tanks perhaps more easier than finding healers. Thats great.
I don’t think it will change to be honest, people just don’t like tanking in general
@@andrewg_byep. I've been playing for YEARS, and only until SoM did I start to get the confidence to tank.
@@gotboostlag the other thing is if you look at retail for example you have .. 6 tanking classes(Druid war dk dh paladin monk) and still tank is always instaqueue, difficult to find generally
@@andrewg_bin classic the bigger issue is that the only viable raid tank is Warrior and Warrior is a painful slog to level. Personally I don't like playing warrior so I don't tank. But with Shaman getting a tank spec and Bear Druid getting new stuff I'm finally interested.
@@TurboNemesis Biggest problem with Feral tanking in classis was gear. They aimed all the druid gear at healing... so you had to use off-set pieces and 'steal' from rogues etc. We had a feral tank in Classic and he raid tanked all the way to and thru Naxx, it can be done if you are not meta slaves.
All Feral DPS will be running Mangle as it actually replaces Claw on your bar and does vastly more damage (the 160% damage tooltip is for Bear version, wowhead has the Cat version which is 300% damage) than Claw or Shred and only costs 40 energy (35 with 5/5 Ferocity) as opposed to Claw's 40 or Shred's 60. So all Kitties will just be spamming Mangle while keeping up Ferocious Roar buff and Rip bleed meaning Bears can all grab Lacerate.
I think at least in the lvl 25 bracket Warriors will be focusing on a 2h DPS build running Rend/Deep Wounds with the rage per bleed tick rune and the 20% attack speed rune to maintain a good, smooth rage generation to feed Quick Strike spam as it is their only option for an instant attack rage dump at that early of a level. This means Mangle bleed buff will be huge as it benefits both Feral builds, Warriors, and Rogues all at the same time.
If mangle works the way it did in TBC then Mangle is going to be far more valuable for damage and threat than Lacerate. Lacerate barely beats Swipe for threat generation in TBC and gets outclassed by Swipe in Hyjal
nice to see them taking ideas from ascension and making them mainstream
As a warlock main since the beginning... I might for the first time ever become a tank
I love the clip of MrGM because it sums up what I witnessed analysing his vod for the warlock tank info, disinterested, head in the clouds and no idea what his buttons did.
Something to note on Paladins. Like in TBC, you will have mana issues as a tank if you get TOO tanky. It returns mana based on the amount HEALED. So if you are mitigating enough damage / blocking enough attacks, you'll have issues. It happned to our tank a lot :D
What would be amazing if to have each of these tanks truly have a niche to the point where some will go DPS on certain fights instead of tanking, and you'd swap when it's efficient to do so.
He'll yeah
Shaman tank seems to be so much fun imo
Season of discovery yet everyone's already looking up guides and trying to minmax lol
I hope Rogue will be viable and accepted as a tank because it's only about 1 target, parry and dodge at this state. Nothing for magic damage or aoe threat.
Wait and see, it's still good enough for me to be excited about this and it's only the level 25 phase after all.
Fan of knifes at later lvls would be awesome
I feel like we’ll see rogues get an aoe ability rune later
@@IronDuker8339definitely. Will likely be pared with some type of AoE taunt or combination of skills FoK+ high treat buff.
At the point when they reach avoidance cap they will be goated boss tanks.
@@IronDuker8339hoping we also get a cloak of shadows inspired anti-magic cd
Warlocks will 100% be tanking as pure destro. No need for Corruption. Mana reduction on Shadow Cleave and Searing pain, increased crit chance on all your most used spells will be more dps and more threat.
im 100% with you, until lvl40 when lock unlocks Siphon Life i dont see 'yet' why we wouldn't go full destro. Literally cannot wait because i wanna see if DL/Siphon Life+hellfire tanking in open world will be possible.
yeah i think it comes down to how much mitigation you need. in a lot of instances i can absolutely see destro or aff tank be a thing for more threat. If you need the mitigation it might be a demo angle as a 30% damage reduction via soul link all the time might be too strong. Also with holy paladins getting beacon of light they can easily keep you and your pet alive at the same time. But this is obviously all theory crafting for late game stuff. At level 25 you are probably correct that it will be destro.
You will go full demo for Soul Link
Soul Link? for what? your pet to die instantly in raids? lmao... Demo tree is garbage@@NoOne56488
You guys get it. I imagine it will take warlock mains dabbling in melee combat for the first time a bit of an adjustment period, so use to relying on SL. My friends, please don't hard cast immolate while you're tanking, you can't dodge.
My bear is going survival of the fittest chest rune when tanking, i ain’t taking crits to the face just to cater to the warriors/rogues dps meters with wind fury, that’s a cat/shaman job to offer.
Bear gets crit immune ANDDDDD 20% flat DR. It's going to be the primo raid tank
I could see bears just wearing Feral DPS gear and using the SotF rune and being threat gods
Yeah that's pretty insane actually, I didn't even even see the double 10% yet...
@@tableslam this. alot of people will be doing HEAPS more damage, meaning more threat that the other tanks classes will need to fight for. seeing as bear alrdy gets crit immune extremely early on, they can just stack attack damage/armor/health this is TBC druid all over again and will wipe the floor in terms of best raid tank.. ESPECIALLY FOR SPELL MITIGATION
Cant wait to face metamorphosis Soul link locks in pvp @ 60 🙃
HAHA! Ya that's gonna be me. 5/31/15 with instant corrupt, soulburn and daze effect. I pray they give us felguard as a pet on a rune. Honestly people probably gonna be more scared of the Chaos bolt and fire locks because they can penetrate through all shields.
@@lance1625 nah dude the only classes that could have kill soul link lock were phys dps now with that much armor and soul link you just gonna be 1vs2 arena dueling
@@packy000stanek6 they rly need to reduce dmg on tanking runes, else you just get free dubstain while being a full dps class. worse even for pvp.
I heared WL is already a raidboss in pvp with demonform any only paladins can battle them with exorcism. this will not stay that way
pvp will be so broken omg im all for it :D
I’m really excited to dual wield rock biter on caster bosses as Shaman. Threat will be insane!
They have a talent to take 10% less fire/frost/nature damage as well as grounding totem to really cheese some magic encounters. It plays a lot like spell reflect for warriors and classic is not designed around that generally
Yeah i honestly think people are really overlooking dual wield spec on shamans and it not being spec specific. The fact it gives 5% melee and spell hit means it will be potentially really good for all specs. Ele shamans duel wield 2 end game caster weapons and a free 5% spell hit seems a bit crazy to me. Like you said depending on the fight you could even run it as tank shaman if you don't need block for some crazy threat generation and ranged threat.
"While Rockbiter Weapon is active on your mainhand weapon"...
So keep rockbiter on mainhand for increased threat overall. Rockbiter already has double threat in classic so by dual wielding you're literally doubling your melee threat generated. @@zekemckain4236
Would that be worth giving up overload though. 5% spell hit is basically 5% damage while overload is 30% chance to do 50% more damage coming out to be a 15% damage gain. So offhand weapon stats would have to be 10% damage gain just to even out unless my math is wrong
definitely not going to be viable, only works on main hand and foregoing a shield foregoes you all the massive buffs you get from the shield rune. vast majority of vanilla raids are melee dmg too
Righteous Fury has a base 60% threat bonus. Hand of Reckoning increases it TO 80%, it is not being increased BY 80%. Divine Sac is PARTY wide, not RAID wide.
Rogue tank hype!!!! I'm so glad I waited to hear this information from you, my dude! GG!
Something to remember about rogue tanking and Main Gauche/Bladedance both increase your threat via parry haste. I think it should not be underestimated
Seems to me like Rogue tanks will want both hands to be slow weapons for harder hitting Sinsinter Strikes/Parry Hastes and for harder hitting Main Gauche.
@@dfcd1432 This was my thought as well! I hope it's the case, big change from the usual
will all depend on how much of our threat is MG vs poisons@@dfcd1432
Wish the warlock did not completely transform, but instead look like the 'Dark Apotheosis' transformation from mists of pandaria. At least you can see your gear progression than.
no casting avenger shield? so nice!
I have a feeling that tank rogues are gonna be a menace in PvP, being so hard to hit with anything
Vs the new eng shammy yes but shaman always sucked in pvp, vs warrior the extra parry will also be nice but eh rogues already owned warriors.... vs pala it depends if they pala can HOJ and one tap you, but rogues do have more tools for bleeds and dodges now so i think it will be about the same and mostly in the paladins favour so long as they are ret/prot and well geared. The biggest thing from a rogues point of view for pvp is ambush and backstab costing only 40 energy, and the ranged stun will be huge at lvl 25.
Yup yup, I'm very curious to see how all of this will play put. So excited for SoD
This thumbnail was so dopeeeeee
But blizzard doesn't understand, when they add kings to horde (in 10 man setting) that the hunter is locked out of bm as their aspect won't be benefiting from IAOTH and is forced out of bm. All that for what seems to be a PARTY kings... further comparing shamans with paladins show how useless they are as their strength of earth is their only attempt compare with might and wisdom (and the buffs can be applied to whole raid not just group)
Really feels like warrior gets lots of these Benefits from their talents and gear already, that's why they don't have the DR/crit redux rune. We can talent Defense, +threat, blocking etc. as well as having VERY defensive gear, esp in our classic tier sets (the other classes DONT get that). So they are adding +rage and +damage and utility. And this hints that they won't be adding whole tank sets to these classes tier gear options.
Make no mistake, the combo of extra rage (esp at low level), Tclap in D stance, and Devastate, is HUGE for shield warrior tanking
This will be fun.
Honestly after getting hyped from seeing the Warlock, Rogue, Shaman, Paladin changes...when he got to the Warrior runes I was almost thinking I don't even care about any of those new classes because the Warrior stuff looks so good.
First off, Victory Rush is a borderline broken ability far as Vanilla is concerned. Literally the only thing stopping Warriors from being endless speed killing machines is the fact that they have no way to recover HP. Being able to get 10% of your max health every 8 seconds as long as you're killing stuff is insane. Combine that with how much rage you'll be able to have all the time from being able to use Charge in combat, 3 rage per tick on bleeds, etc.
I dunno! I went into this video looking to pick one of the new tank specs to try out in SoD and I think I ended up walking away with plans to just go Warrior.
Why do people keep saying "alliance get windfury on paladins"? This comes off so misleading. Druids get the Windfury ability. I can only assume you are saying Paladin DPS and Tanks have access to windfury (via druids?)
Yes, I'm pretty sure the 2nd half is what he meant because Classic Paladin was the only class who could never benefit from WF
Came here expecting more than just reading off runes, sadly didn't get that. Would love to see someone with actual deep classic wow knowledge discuss if 500% armor boost for warlock is enough to bring cloth up to plate levels? Or if 20% reduction in all damage for druid bear brings them up to levels of mitigation that shield block users have?
Stuff like that...
Wait...does the Paladin Hand of Reckoning rune give mana back if you're overhealed, or only from effective healing done to you? I feel like this could get Paladins into trouble on content that doesn't hit hard enough if you're not missing much HP and then running out of mana.
What are we going to skill now as paladin tank? Its just wasted 5 points with aegis available...
This feels like it's going to be like wrath. All Tanks will be OP. So we will be mass pulling and pressing "w" only stopping to drink
Great video bro!
So, for PvP
What's stopping every player to just pick the tank rune then spec/gear for the usual dps stuff. Ignoring all other tank specific talents/runes/gear etc, and basically be a standard dps but with a permanent defensive up? How are you supposed to compete with an elemental shaman who just happens to have 30% extra hp, 10% dmg reduction and ignoring a large portion of your critical hits for example?
From what ive seen, nothing. The tank rune is mandatory for every class that can run it in pvp.
just do 60% more damage 4head
That ele shaman would sacrifice the 33% chance to do another lava burst/chain lightning or lightning bolt tho.. which seems better to me for pvp
Wait a minute! That paladin was a blood elf! Do we get paladins horde side even? And draenei shamans for alliance?
No
Idk if anyone has thought about this but I wish they would add more legendaries with their own questlines. Make them as hard to get as all the other ones but allow some other classes to get legendaries at lower level
With how fleshed out warlock tank is and how lacking Roger tanking is, it's like rogue is a pvp tank or something
There is one oversight in this vid!
I saw no mention of the *BOOMKIN* tank, hahaha. I definitely made this work in dungeons, and it was a lot of fun.
Free Wrath, 3 dots you can apply, Starsurge --- depending on what other runes end up being there, this could be a pretty good time.
I can’t wait to try some of this. I will drop WotLK Classic for this.
not much left in wrath classic anyway. The casual guilds still have heroic LK left to kill and maybe a couple others, and I guess a few people might care about Ruby Sanctum? but it's kind of a trash filler raid, most people consider the expansion done when you kill H LK
I'm hoping hunters get pet tank spec seems like they are leaning that way giving them a real taunt on pet
I'm hoping they implement TBC diet changes. Owls being unable to eat fish in Vanilla is stupid.
I do hope rogues(tanks) get more tools to outline their tanking potential because right now they seem outclassed by everyone. And the wow community wouldn’t even bother with using one.
Honestly I don't think most people who want to play Rogue do so becuase they have any desire to play tank anyway. Rogue tanks are going to be people who just love rogue but want to try a new role. I don't think it's necessarily bad for it to be a rare spec or something with a high skill cap to play well. There are much easier tanks to play if someone wants to play that role but have an easier time of it. The reason Classic was fun was because not all classes could do everything as good as everyone else. Every class had its situational advantage/disadvantage.
I don't really agree at least at level 60, rogue looks like the most broken of all the tanks so far, i don't really see any way its not meta. You just attack the boss pop evasion and 30 seconds later prep and evade again. Doing so means you will have between 95 and 99% chance to have any attacks dodge parry or miss, that only leaves spell damage to harm you and you can get around that via resistence. In bis 25 gear as a buffed rogue you have 47% passive avoidence and in theory will at the start of every fight gain another 20% from parry and if you play sub ( not many will, ghostly strike for another 15%) You also have 1780hp and 31% damage reduction 51% with dance up, that's more than a warrior or paladin in mail btw, and a lot more than a druid or warlock. The only downside I can see is its a lot of tabbing between targets, and It lacks aoe. I assume rogues will get both Fan of Knives for aoe and Cloak of Shadows by level 60 tho, if they do they will be very top teir tanks.
@@alistairbolden6340 Completely agree. I am actually concerned about rogues being BIS for single target by miles, with the worst/ least geared of them probably negating half the attacks against them anyway.
Without an AoE ability, rogue tanks will only be seen in the raid as a single target tank. No dungeons parties will accept rogues.
how you can play PTR if they didn't make one? how is possible play the PTR version of SOD?
Are ruins a single use or a learned ability? Like an enchantment?
An item enchantment you can change at any time out of combat, at least that's how the blizzcon beta worked
won't the warlock pet potentially cause a bunch of problems with extra parry's and stuff? I wouldn't imagine the pet is going to do anything while tanking
That's what Demonic Sacrifice is for :3
Sacrifice Succubus for increased shadow damage. Or just have your imp Nuke for extra damage
So I must be missing something. All the new tank builds and bears get a way to completely stop crits, yet i see nothing similar for warriors and paladins. If the argument is that there is def gear for those classes then that means they will be taking crits up until 60 (phase 4 i believe), and if the new content is going to be giving them the necessary defense gear than that could/would be equally true for the others. Are the pre-plate tanks just going to be losing 80% health to some crit into fierce blow shenanigans?
I wonder if Prot Warrior with Devestate could be a thing in PvP but scared PvP will be a ranged nightmare in open world where warriors with just 1 charge going to srtuggle no?
What about blessing of salvation for horde? That's their main problem with raiding and pulling aggro from tanks.
I said this as well, they do get a totem for 20%, always have but it sucks as its group only, Horde also don't have blessing of might or more importantly for all the new tanks devotion aura. Shammy totems just suck sadly and all needed to be reworked to make them raid wide and as good as blessings. Its a crying shame this has not happened so all the raiders will still be ally.
Does wild strikes effect the druid in cat or bear?
How huge is main gauche vs mutilate? My fantasy would be rogue tanking but using mutilate to just rip faces off while I do it.. or else we are kinda just standing in front of the boss dancing lol
Who remembers the old shaman tanks, oh the struggle
Am I the only one that realizes that bliss also made Hunter pets tanks in SOD as well
I can almost guarantee bear tanks won't be running with windfury
Im fairly sure they will, I am a RL and the only reason I see to take one would be to get another WF in the raid, even as horde. As ally it will be 100% required. With these changes raids will still be full of warriors and rogues as the main dps, the only difference really being a disk priest is looking pretty nice now and WF druids. I see druid tanks playing much the same role they always have, that being a very capable offtank but now there is a big WF size reason to take them unlike before. Most raids will also be looking to bring 3-4 cat druids now again just for the WF and bleed debuff but they are going to be fairly hard to come by.
the paladin RF buff is not increased *BY* 80% it is increased *TO* 80% it is much smaller than represented
Does anyone have a link to a video of the raid with the warlock tank? There was a bit of danlock in this, but I cannot find that video anywhere! :(
i love rogue. if it was jut a fresh server id 100% go rogue...however they seem to be one of the least changed classes and i kind of want to play something completely different like tank demo lock or melee hunter.
i think dps rogue will be one of the highest dps, at least on single target (mutilate with no dagger requirement and boosted by opportunity is gonna be big dps), but I agree the changes aren't mindblowing or really all that interesting either, like some classes
Thank you
Are shammys getting bloodlust though?
Why you show a Belf to show Paladin changes? I hope there are no TBC races in SoD
What is the soundtrack of these vids? I'd love to play that while driving home after work during cold winter evenings.
Still think tank runes need to reduce damage done in PvP
I can go Warrior healer too (first aid) !
Î wonder if MCP will still be the best Drood Weapon for DPS
Hmm, Metamorph=Demon Hunter...Rogue=DeathKnight..Shaman=Monk. Nice I like it though. Wait did I see a BloodElf Pally??? So what is exclusive to the alliance side if this is true? Or do we get Shammies on the alliances as well?
i want to try shaman tanking
I thought there was no ptr, beta, or anything. where are we getting all this info / gameplay?
There wasn’t . But I think there was a event at blizzard that let people play it for. A little bit. And the info was data-mind if I recall
There was a demo at blizzcon, a bunch of people were able to stream or record their gameplay for later analysis
In melee heavy groups droods will outpace others cause the WF.
It all looks like fun…. Feels bad for my warrior tho… I was hoping to get some better aoe threat/sustain.
Druid Windfury applies to the entire group. How does that put anyone else behind? Bear tanks can't run crit immunity rune and Windfury rune so I wouldn't be afraid of them overtaking warrior. Windfury rune will be on your feral DPS and buffing all melees
Was Hopeing shman tank be a dual wielding tank
Rogue tank has no DR at pull, they only get DR by using their finisher. So for the first few secs of a fight, they take full damage if they get hit.
And any boss that uses anything other than physical, they just take full damage from everytime.
Seems the weakest of the tanks to me right now, except a few situational bosses.
They seem like they’ll have really high highs and low lows. When the parry dodge is relevant- it looks borderline broken on paper. When they’re not- oof.
Opener into DR. Not hard.
Gauche opener gives them parry
Yeah rogue definitely seems the weakest overall tank at 25 (although should be fairly solid in single target situations), but more stuff will be coming for 40/50/60 so it could be that rogue is the strongest by 60, who knows. Kinda makes class-choosing so tough right now, because the shit that looks imba at 25 may be weak compared to someone else at 60
@@EB-bl6cc can also add modifier to poisons like adding a high threat poison & Fan of knives later on. Could get very strong
I really want to try doing dungeons as a hunter tank with beast mastery and flanking strike runes. You think it might be viable?
how sre you gonna keep aggro in are? the mobs sound like they'll run passed you besides the main guy
@@saintreem No idea, but flanking strike sounds like its gonna help + all the stuff from beastmaster rune. That's why I asked if it might be viable :)
This feels like WoW Ascension enchant system, the rune system I mean. But less nutty... for now...
do we know whats happening with the debuff cap?
I don't think they said but it's implied that it'll function like SoM with no cap.
With all the new tanks, I forsee a need for more healers, priests, druids, shammys n pallys. Heals might be the lowest played archetype! I for one, hate healing others
The problem i have with crit immunity on all the new tank specs is that i worry it will make the new tanks significantly better then the old tanks due to all the free stats they get just from the runes. Warriors are basically never crit immune if you are are playing fury prot which is the meta as it is incredibly difficult to become crit enough as there is basically not enough defense on gear until around tier 2 to become crit immune especially if you are not using full mitigating gear and you are using threat gear. Maybe this just doesn't really matter and warriors still just pump threat hard enough that you run them anyways or maybe the new runes make it so deep prot tank is now the new meta instead of fury prot but will have to see.
yeah I feel like warriors are going to need a rune that gets them at least part of the way there with regards to the % crit immunity. Might not have to be the full 6 like the others got but something in the 2-4 range
Tack!
really hate that they didnt put mangle and lacerate on separate rune slots... paladins looks like they are gonna dominate completely
How is there a guide out already? lol games not even out…
Shhhhhh
How do you keep clicking these guides? Games not even out 😂
Welcome to youtube creators trying to make wow their living. I usually only open these to comment what you said 😂
As they’re currently known you can assess a bunch of stuff like uncrittable and uncrushsble and guess
Welcome to the hype train
Even a glyph vendor near class trainers would be more appropriate.
Ally looks so much better than horde, even more so than before these changes. Salv on a blessing is still a hell of a lot better than salv on a totem. Horde are not getting fear ward. And paladin healers look more buffed than resto shaman. Not only that but these light armoured tanks get so much from devotion aura, and ofc horde do not get anything close to blessing of might or blessing of protection. Sarthe is being very short sighted here and putting way way to much trust in Blizzard.
Do we know if we can make both alliance and horde characters in SoD? It used to be that in a PVP server you can't have characters from both factions... If that's the case it will suck. I wanna play both shaman and paladin.
dsac is only for party bro at least for now
Dsac is only party in Wrath too
@@dfcd1432 no it isn`t lol
@@captainrwcg3558 Yes it is.
Divine Sacrifice that redirects damage to the Paladin only affects the party.
Divine Guardian the blanket 20% damage reduction, is raid wide.
They are different talents. SoD is only introducing Divine Sacrifice, not Divine Guardian.
@@dfcd1432 bro stop doing crack :)))
no improved dsac makes it kinda not worth taking imo
It oonly brought two new tanks
WTF they did Rogue tank dirty compared to warlock.....
Is it me or the grafic are insane?
Def not the spec Locks will be playing.. 5 in Demo, rest in Destro.
6:27
So tanking is made extremely easy for everyone. So no more cc no more chatting, just: “Pull faSster Pull moreee”
Tanking in wow is already easy, it's even more braindead at lvl 25
I’m still forced go ally as I love pally wish cood be a horde pally
Who said these are all the runes?
YoUr GuIdE tO ShIt I KnOw NoThInG AbOuT
Fury/Prot build will still be a thing with Single Minded Fury
Unless boss crits will be a thing this time around. It seems to me that we get sword and board warriors around this time. Otherwise the whole crit immunity buffs to the other tanks would be irrelevant.
As a paladin tank, having to go down Holy to get Consecrate means that we don't get righteous fury - which is a huge part of threat generation and a significant chunk of the Hand of Reckoning rune text. I have been chewing on giving up aegis for Divine Storm for the snap agro, but it feels like a really hard choice.
could be an avengers shield angle as well depending on how many targets you are tanking on average in the level 25 bracket. If you are only tanking around 3 mobs on average then you could forgo consecration and just use avengers shield for that snap threat on 3 targets. it could also be that improved righteous fury isn't that big of a deal at level 25 as hand of reckoning is already improving righteous fury threat gen by 80%. I also think seal of the martyrdom is being overlooked as well for tanking. 30% weapon damage to 3 targets on every single auto that also gives mana regen to everyone in your party based on the damage you take could mean you literally never run out of mana while having constant aoe threat on every single attack and make your healer have significantly more mana to work with as well.
You get Righteous Fury at level 16 from your trainer. It has a base of +60% to threat from Holy Attacks and lasts 30 min. The skill points are used to increase its effectiveness by 16, 33 and 50, for each point. I think you can still go 11 into the holy tree and maybe 5? into prot. (for Redoubt, even though it doesn't stack with the SoD enchant, having them both proc at different times looks nice). The other question is, who is going to be putting 11 into prot (with out being able to get consecration) in order to get Blessing of Kings?
Righteous Fury is a baseline ability. You gain Improved Righteous Fury from the Hand of Reckoning rune. You also gain Redoubt and Shield Specialization from the Aegis rune. I imagine the meta spec for prot will be 11/5/0 or possibly 11/0/5. You miss out on the hit from Precision, but no prot pal is giving up Consecration.
u dont have to pick concetration with Avengers shield rune
@@kiss-shotacerola-orionhear220 I guess we'll have to see how it pans out, but one 3-target ability once a minute (30 sec?) is a lot less threat than constant aoe damage.
Season of scrambled eggs ;) For a fun server it looks great.
Can you do a rogue BIS video soon plz?
Oh, I get it, let's just throw all the classes together and call it a day. Because that makes total sense, right?
SoD hype.. not interested in classic.. but hopfully content will be SoD centric for the time beeing.
Anyway - Druid seems terrible, warlock i S tier and so i Warrior, Paladadin i tier A and shaman + rogue = dont bother😊 Dont follow the video plz as it’s kinda wrong
All of this wasn't necessary.
Small abilities if only for HC servers, recuperate, victory rush, talent changes making unviable specs viable...
Just small changes, not all this.
Leave it to Sarthe to act like he "knows the Meta" to something that blizz literaly said they aren't going to have any PTR's to prevent this exact thing LMAOOOO ...this guy don't know shit
Paladin(Blessing) = Class Buff + Over Death
Hunter(Aura) = GROUP-Aura, Hunter dies 10% dies
yeah theres no advantage xD
This funserver is doa
imagine playing classic
in 2023.