I'm 64 and ride an ex-Katusha team Canyon with DuraAce Di2 and I can't remember the last time i rode faster than 40kph on a flat road, but I'm happy. I guess that my body just about remembers what it was like to race and my mind still thinks I'm 16. good chat again guys.
I ride a defy and I believe it is a great bike. I race crits on it and it climbs amazing. Although as a 23 year old you do get some odd looks. But that look changes when you crush them on a climb. You can easily adjust the position to both racing and comfort.
As an owner of a Defy it's indeed all about the geometry for me. Having some neck issues I basically quit riding the race bike I had. Then I got a secondhand defy (2021 ultegra model) and I love it. The huge increase in comfort has made it so I actually enjoy riding a bike again and I ride as general exercise plus just for the fun of it. It also means I can actually push harder, go faster etc despite being not aero in the slightest. I don't see the point of the really high end models though, but I fail to see the point of those in general (even race models) unless you're a very rich racer either.
I think "Endurance" bikes like the Defy and the Endurace are exactly what the majority of people should be buying. Folk buying a SL8 and have a huge stack of spacers is pointless, none of the testing is done with that position or with that extra stack. I'd bet a defy slammed vs a SL8 with max spacers, the defy be more Aero. I don't think the Roubaix or the Domane should be in the same class, they are bikes with endurance geometry, but are specifically designed for one professional bike race a year, and that's it.
The thing is, the pros don’t ride those bikes for the cobbles anymore, they were kind of a hot item back in the early 2010s, pinarello did an elastomer “shock” in the seat stays if I remember correctly. They’re suited to the folks who take the occasional detour on their cycling trips. I’m in the camp of, if I might see rough roads, I’m gonna bring my gravel bike.
@brolland07 yeah true. That was the Dogma K I think it was called. Think we need a new name for Roubaix/ Domane bikes , road plus bikes or something. Then leave endurance bikes being good quality road bikes that can be raced/fast bunch/fondo rider types with better geometry
Lots of spacers under the stem don't make for good handling either, plus the likely hood of steerer tube failures. I ride with many middle age folks on aero bikes and I am yet to see anyone with anything less than all of the spacers the bike comes with (4/5cm). Funilly enough, I rarely see anyone riding in the drops and I often see people moving their hands away from the hoods (reach too long?...) I ride an endurance frame with higher than average stack to compensate for my 155 cranks and very high saddle height. I have a reasonable handlebar drop, but still need a 1cm spacer under the stem. After riding frames with lower stacks and more spacers under the bars, I vastly prefer my current setup. I can ride on the drops all day and hold the aero hoods position for a long time, which for me are more significant gains than any aero frame out there. PS: I did a bike fit before buying this frame too, precisely to avoid too many fit compromises (spacers, shorter stem, etc)
Guys luv ur takes. Endurance bikes ARE for geezers like me. The stack and reach make cycling anything more than 10 miles super comfortable for me. One thing to consider, the 60+ age group, at least pre-retirement, has a good deal of disposable income which can be spent on cycling - if that's what they're into. There's more of us out there than you think.
On Endurance bikes: I am riding with the club that mainly focuses on long Endurance rides. Like 200-300-400-600km and so on. And you don't want to be in race position for 40 hours. Also the audience mainly is 40+ men who never raced professionaly so there's no sense for them to go for anything with race geometry. Glad you've covered this in the podcast. Also I don't think its fair to compare just top end endurance bikes with similar spec road bikes (which you did in your endurance bike video). Endurance 105 Carbon bicycle from Canyon will cost you 2100 Euros, while Ultimate with 105 is 2900 Euro. I haven't done research on other brands, but I believe buying entry level endurance bike will be generally cheaper than similar spec racing analog.
based on what other people are saying and videos being posted show a pattern of this behavior. he rides recklessly time after time and gets away with it. the worst part is, any criticism of his obvious faults result in them crying racism. it really turns off normal people who are tired of the victim mentality at every turn.
It can be racially motivated too which is not supposed to be! I guarantee! You break the rules you break it and not any other reasons politically or socially!
@@quintonvance3807dude I love diversity in cycling and the idea of LEGION is awesome and I totally get this reaction. There are definitely racists that are dog whistling in regards to LEGION. However, the message and spirit of the team is hurt by LEGION riders (Kendall Ryan, Justin Williams, etc) being bullies. If they just rehabbed their attitude and racing strategy it'd go a long way to me supporting them. Kind of hard to watch the team run people into the gutter on videos and pretend to be ok with it.
Congrats on 50 pods!! Not any specific comments on today's but just wanted to let y'all know that the Nero show has genuinely become my favorite bit of cycling content online. Feels just like mates having a chat at the coffee shop, always good stuff 🤘
Endurance bikes are great because they still have round seat posts and let you run a slammed stem without destroying your spinal discs. My next build will be an endurance frame
My Defy doesn’t have a round seatpost and it kinda annoys me. I get it’s part of the comfort, it is very comfortable, but there’s no other options. I do love my Defy, great bike.
Look at the brit crits - THAT's real racing. Clean and precise, the bloke with the best legs and tactics wins - none of the US BS of crashing people out and getting unnecesarily physical with your competition.
Truth is no one really gives a shit about crit racing in the US. Gravel racing is simultaneously more popular with the masses and does much more to prepare riders with aspirations to ride road in Europe.
Congrats on 50 guys! The best cycling chat on YT, way more enjoyable and listenable than the competition. I'm looking forward to this every week as long as it is not a vegan exclusive 😅
Sigh.... I couldn't count how many times I've had my legs ripped off by some old guy on a shitbox bike. If only more people could grasp it's about the legs and ticker, not the bloody bike.
I think brands are still not marketing to what the endurance bike market really wants to buy. There is the geometry thing, but these buyers also tend to be more into easier-to-adjust bikes which means 27.2 seatposts, standard stems/bars, no integrated light systems etc. Simplify the bike, lower the price and you've got something good
100% I don't really mind brands going balls to the wall on their flagship race bikes, but please keep a simple bike around for all the people that don't want to sacrifice usability for marginal gains
Completely agree....the bike can still be super cool looking and specced very nice with nice features. But keeping some of the stuff simple would be a huge marketing approach.
Congratulations on 50 episodes. Well done guys! Your show is massively entertaining. It has improved by leaps and bounds since the beginning. Keep up the good work. Please watch out for the dreaded youtube burnout syndrome.
Everyone I know who waxes a chain does it because they ride both indoors and outdoors and don't want to bring a greasy chain inside. That's why I do it, I don't care about the watts. It's just orders of magnitude cleaner and less maintenance if you do it right.
I have both a tcr and a defy. Even with the same size tires, they are not even close. The tcr is way stiffer and snappier. They defy is what I use for a fun ride. The TCR is what I use if I am chasing someone.
What Giant has done with the Defy is very welcome and fills the hole left by the out going Cannondale Synapse HiMod (previous gen). Race bike like feel, light weight, top end spec, forgiving geometry, capacity of wider tyres, and somewhat better compliance (seat post / carbon layup / carbon quality i.e. HiMod) but with no stupid gimmicks. Well done Giant
It's disappointing that their sponsors are avoiding flak for such bad rider sportsmanship. I feel like the sponsors should start to get some heat too for this
Sponsors should never be responsible for someone’s behavior. It’s like the FRYE Festival. Ppl said the models should be held accountable…what??? For advertising something. Naw cuz. Sponsors shouldn’t be held responsible for an athletes actions. They can pull their sponsorship if the athlete does something too far.
Belter episode guys! I justified updating my Roubaix to a Tarmac SL7 this year because I race and about 3 hours into an endurance I always get the same longing (in my shoulders usually) to be back on the Roubaix!
Congrats on #50 !!!🎉 The dominance of "Race Bike" in the cycling world has definitely hurt the Endurance market. Giant has been the one brand that has strongly supported & promoted their Endurance geometry Defy, which is an excellent bike. The geometry (ie; Stack & Reach) on most of the very popular Race oriented bikes (Road & Gravel) are drastically different . For those of us who have reached a certain age, have physical "limitations", Injuries, etc but still want to have a very capable bike the choices are limited. Hopefully there will always be a few to choose from. As a Club member said one day, when the group was admiring his new fancy race oriented bike " New Bike, Same Engine" .😂
You two, and this channel, ARE the new things that came up in my feed. Previously I only subscribed to NorCal Cycling while still regularly watching Lanterne Rouge and Phil Gaimon.
Getting back in to cycling after having been away for three years (twins were born and the whole covid thing) and the Defy feels like it checks all my boxes. I am not a racer and just want to ride for enjoyment as well as be able to light gravel. Use to ride a 54cm Caad12 with 10mm of spacers so a stack of 561, so a Medium Defy would be no spacers and 275mm of seatpost sticking out haha
After talking with friends that own bike shops or work in them they all said the same. The vast majority of people who buy a race bike, will need to make changes for them to get comfortable in them. While the endurance bikes will fit almost everyone. If you want the looks of the race bike, but you run 20 spacers or a larger frame with the seat post all the way down, let me tell you, it looks bad. A endurance bike will be easier to slam the stem or even running a longer one. In my opinion, A LOT of people run the wrong frame because they want that race bike, while they can’t be in the race bike position.
Lots of spacers, as I see on most aero bikes out there, also make for poor handling and possible steerer tube failures. I don't mind looks at all, but getting a bike only for it to handle poorly, seems a waste of money. I also don't see many of those riders using the drops that much. I wonder why...
Arguing against endurance bikes is arguing for a lack of options. It's like asking someone why they want an Audi Q7 because there's an RS6 that's faster and sportier Let the people have choice!
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I have a Defy Advanced 2021. I specifically bought it because of it’s geometry. I have lumber disc hernia and stretching too much causes me discomfort. I tried my friend’s similarly sized Fuji Altamira and I stopped 3 times at my ride because of back pain. I have never used it’s drops but with Defy I can ride without much discomfort and I can use drops a lot more easily. I haven’t been in a race yet and I can agree standard road bikes can be faster with fitter and healthier riders because of their more aero geometry, snappier handling etc. But in my case having a more relaxed geometry makes me to push more. I have many good results and even KOMs on Strava and there are people with better, lighter and more aero bikes on these segments. I think it ultimately comes down to rider being in a perfect harmony with bike.
I did the marathon on the weekend and I was someone dumping gels. They didn’t have any designated rubbish zone like you’d see in major bike race. I tried to dump mine in the aid stations with the millions of cups on the ground but it didn’t always work out that way
The new Defy makes alot of sense in northern Europe as all round/ light gravel bike. Its light, has 38/40c clearance, road bike'ish geometry without screw holes on every tube but has mudguard mounts!
My take on endurance bikes, after solely riding on a gravelbike for 2 years, is that endurance bikes were killed by gravelbikes. Slap some 32mm slicks on a gravelbike and you've got yourself an endurance bike, possibly with even more relaxed geometry than an endurance bike (which is what makes it endurance, right?). With added bonus of low gears (30 front + 34 back ftw!), mounting points and possibility to run a second wheelset with >40mm gravel tires that are even capable of shredding non-technical singletracks. Where's the added value of an endurance bike in here?? I don't see it.
Here's my take. Endurance bike is the bike normal people (non-pro. trains hard but doesn't get paid for it) SHOULD be riding if they are not fitting the aggressive geometry. A lot of people get aggressive race bikes, fit 30mm of spacers below the stem and essentially turn it into endurance bikes anyway. Instead, get an endurance bike, slam the stem and your stack is still bigger than a race bike. It looks more aggressive while not being so. It will be more comfortable and you'll actually end up riding it faster because you're not in pain. I know some companies' endurance bikes is same geometry as their race bike. That to me makes 0 sense. I like what Cervelo is doing for example. From the outside a black / white r5, soloist and caledonia and aspero look pretty much the same. But their geometry is very different and get more and more aggressive as you go up the chain.
Exactly - too many are kidding themselves buying race bikes - but the joke is on them; they look ridiculous, not cool. Get a bike that fits you, not one you think you should be riding because you're gullible - and influenced by pros.
Bought a Cannondale Synapse back in 2017 because of our rough chip roads and the fact I could fit 28-30mm tires, wasn't too much around then that could, certainly not any "race bikes". I raced this bike for years, bonus it had a slopping top tube for getting down in the aero tuck (banned by the UCI but UCI has no jurisdiction here). Used this bike for gravel riding as well before getting a gravel bike (which is a much better option). Also have the latest model TCR, the fit is capable of being the same, but now I've fitted a slightly shorter and slightly higher Redshift suspension stem to the Synapse for super long endurance rides. The TCR is a better bike for sprint workouts, just a stiffer frame, but if there were still races around (they have mostly disappeared) I would still quite possibly choose the Synapse for the longer races on our rough chip roads. The new TCR can fit 32mm tires with it's disc brakes, but I've only done just over 1200kms over 2.5 years on it. Being the last of the "race bikes" that doesn't have fully hidden cables it's probably going to be the last bike I buy. I would never buy the newer Synapse, Cannondale have really lost the plot with the newer one with the integrated lights etc.
Just bought a pro jersey from Rapha shop in Melbourne yesterday, I had no idea they are supporting bullying in sport. Definitely not buying anything from them in the future.
We were waxing chains back in the 80's. Just love how younger people think it is the "new and best thing since sliced bread". History will show that we all go back to wet lube because it is "easier and more convenient".
At 62 I should be the target audience for a Defy. The only problem is I have spent the last 15 years riding bikes with race geometry. So when I try an endurance bike (and I have) , I quickly find out why I don't enjoy endurance geometry by tipping it into a corner and frightening myself. It does not handle how I expect a bike to handle, it just wallows. I prefer the precise feel of race bike and willing to get beaten up on long rides for that feeling/control. So my new bike is not a Defy but a Propel (currently with 15mm of spacers, but likely to be less)
The Bianchi Infinito is another endurance bike that is still a racey road bike and has no weird gimmicks. Agree with Jesse - get the bike that fits best. Some endurance geometry bikes look cool and go fast. But also, a lot of people better fit “race” geometry.
I love my “endurance bike”. The key as you have mentioned is the geometry. Putting a shorter stem on a race bike is not the same thing. Seat angle, head tube angles are more relaxed and are designed around that-the handling is less twitchy. As some one that sells bikes, I believe that the majority of amateur riders should be on an endurance bikes. Gravel bikes have too easy of gearing to make them good for group rides.
Endurance Bike -you are totally correct Chris, frame specs are the main reason for an endurance bike. Once you start loosing spinal flexibility, it’s time to move to a shorter reach, higher stack bike. Bike rides are not all in peak condition and in our thirties. Endurance Bike every time for me! We don’t all need a race bike! 🚴
34 year old here with a cervelo Caledonia 5. It's actually my second one. I run a frame size down and fat tyres. Room for fenders in winter too. Ultimate all season, all country bike. Will tour euro mountains next year with a tailfin
Intrigued to read the results of this. I’m slowly getting into TH-cam just because I think you can make cooler more in-depth stuff. Hoping people learn a few things and enjoy watching the longer form 360cam footage along with the short insta stuff.
Here's a bike you can discuss: the second tier Van Rysel seems to be crazy value! Aero frame, SRAM Force etap, Quarq powermeter, ZIPP 404s for 4800EUR/8000AUD :o I'm actually a bit sad that I'm not looking for a new bike right now.
I love this podcast. It's the only cycling content that doesn't feel like people rattling off a spec sheet. Love the chat. One thing, you should link to any of the youtubers or topics you cover. It'd be great to read or watch more of the stuff I'm interested in.
@@ChrisMillerCyclingyou have too. I was looking for the bike packing one and didn't make the connection between the TH-cam handle and what I was looking for. Thanks
I perceive the change in Dylan Johnson’s video as the direct result of him inching toward the very top level of his sport. He’s now walking the walk vs. talking the talk. So it’s actually made me like him more.
I am older (59) and am no longer comfortable on a bike with race geometry although I love the light weight and speed. The endurance bike is perfect for my demographic due to the higher stack and less reach since as we age we are just not as flexible. The other option less flexible riders would have is to buy a race bike with a long steering tube shorter stem which makes the handling horrible. As for huge tires, suspensions and other gimmicks, many of us oldies don't plan on riding cobbles and gravel roads anymore.
Endurance bike is best bike. Giant Defy Advanced gang for life. The new 2023 Defy looks pretty great, might trade in my older one for it. If I'm doing a 100k ride and I'm going to hit some rough tarmac, I dread taking out a race bike like my old CAAD10. I go for the Defy every time because it's 95% of the bike but twice as comfortable.
These are the use cases for my endurance bike (Canyon Endurace CF SLX 8) as my 3rd bike while owning a Tarmac SL7 (race bike) and a Specialized Diverge (Gravel bike) 1. Rainy day bike if I want to stay on road 2. Trainer bike 3. Travel bike as it’s external cable routing allows me to fit it in a compact case with some disassembly 4. Fast gravel race bike. With some 32mm Pathfinders it’s actually a very fast gravel bike for light gravel/compact dirt and/or mixed light gravel/road courses. 5. Comfort bike for long rides when my body is feeling a bit beat up as it’s slightly more comfortable than my SL7. 6. Spare bike if my SL7 is ever unavailable for repairs or parts. Is it a luxury to own a bike like this as a 3rd bike? Yes absolutely but this is how I see my endurance bike and I appreciate it for its versatility.
The new Defy seems to be a bit racier fit than other endurance bikes. in my size (medium), the stack and reach are only 13mm higher and 8mm shorter than the TCR so should be pretty easy to get the same fit on both. They could pitch the Defy to those like me who ride on the road most of the time but want a bike that can take 38mm tires for when they venture offroad. Until recently approaching this from the "road" perspective was more difficult and most bought a gravel bike and a second set of wheels; but i can see getting something like the Defy and a second set of gravel wheels being a good option for those who are going to use it on road most of the time.
Hey Chris and Jesse. Just recently started watching your TH-cam and love the content, new and old. I had a question about a topic in this video. Do you guys have a preference or recommendation on caffeinated gels? Or do you prefer using caffeine capsules? What is a targeted caffeine amount that you will go for if you’re looking to use either a gel or a capsule?
Chris, the Chapter 2 Toa geometry is the same as a Super Six Evo. Slightly more stack than a lot of race bikes, but still not in endurance bike territory. It’s a good middle ground.
Hey guys another good show! Perfect for an easy hour on the trainer. I’m sold on Endurance bikes. My next bike was going to be the Endurace until I saw the Defy. Super sporty and the other thing with endurance bikes is the price point. Great components and builds for less. For a mid 40s regular rider endurance fits the bill. And let’s be honest who wants an 80 mil stem on an Emonda! I can say that because that’s what I run.
Chris so true about geometry. If the average consumer or even keen roadies knew what was good for them, the endurance bike should never be dead. It's the right fitting bike for most people. People want the grand tour lightweight or aero bike even though they are getting dinishing returns and worse fitting geometry. As bike fit James says on Cade Media, fit first buy second.
Re Williams brothers and Legion, sponsors are for sure looking for ways out. It takes a bit of time with contracts, and due to the fact that it's not the whole Legion team that crosses the line. I know some of them and they're fair. But the leadership is insecure and rotten.
Interesting, i bought a TCR as my endurance/road bike exactly because it was so compliant and versatile. I run 28/32mm Tubeless and a shorter stem. Perfect all round bike that I could still slam on raceday if i ever race!
I ride a Giant Defy for the reasons Chris talked about: better geometry for me (I have long legs and short torso/arms so I need short reach and tall headtube) and no gimmicks like Roubaix and Domane (except for the D fuse seatpost). Oh and I can fit 35s and now its a decent gravel bike.
Hej Guys, great episode and as if it should be I am in the dilemma of the main topic :)))). Started riding last year on a 7 year old cannondale synapse and now there is a nice deal on a tcr advanced 0 (2022) but is a race bike the right fit coming from a more relaxed geometry :D Keep up the good stuff and excited for the next 50 episodes!
You might be OK on a more aero type bike if your rides or 20 miles ish. when you get into 50+ miles you’re gonna want the endurance bike. What’s the first thing people ask when you’re done with your bike ride “how far did you go?”Nobody ever asks how fast did you go?
Congratulations on the 50th episode been a follower since the Nero Team years. 🎉 On the endurance bikes like Jessie said I would rock that Defy all day. As I do not race but like to go fast and now that it’s almost as light as the TCR why not think about it as my next bike. Everyone thinks they want a race bike until their back starts crying and you start breaking down.
Owner of a Giant Defy Advanced here (previous model, not the latest release) - I bought it because: - the tire width doesn't affect speed (until we're talking massive size ofc) - I occasionally run into unexpected gravel sections on roads that I explore and I really don't want to do that with 25-28mm tires - it's very comfortable to ride; the roads around here are very hit and miss, so I want something that won't rattle me completely - I live close to the local Giant bikes distributor which is also a repair shop etc., so it's simplifies maintenance, warranty and stuff like that - I'm not at the level where less aero frame and more weight (it does weigh 9.4 or 9.7kg though) is going to significantly affect my performance during Grand Fondos, L'etapes and such When I was buying it, I was choosing between Giant Defy Advanced and a similar Canyon model (around 1200€ more expensive, with some features that Giant Defy Advanced doesn't have), so the price and shop proximity ultimately decided it for me. Have to say I'm VERY happy with the choice. The only real hassle is putting on the race number on the head tube because it's pretty bulky, same goes for the handlebars due to the way brake and gear cables are. The new model being like 1.7kg lighter is astonishing to me, that's amazing.
I live in the UK (scotland as well) and wouldn't use anything other than wax lube. I just dont hot melt during the winter, but wouldn't use a wet lube getting my chain all gunky🤢
As someone with the new Defy still in my house for review, can confirm: - it's hot. Could and would ride it - perception around endurance certainly did a lot of damage to the category - it's bloody light and terrific to ride - a lot of TCR riders should be on a Defy - many riders I rode with thought this was "a TCR with hidden cables?" (was the question) Fondo riders who want something like a sub 9hrs Three Peaks (hell even a sub 8) would be right at home on this.
I think 11:15 "people don't want the endurance bike" is the biggest reason for their downfall. A lot of casual riders would be better on an endurance geometry but just want the race version because they think it makes them faster without realizing speed will not be their concern on a 6 hour weekend ride
In my 60's and ride my TCR. Defy not needed. I keep thinking about waxed chains, but I use an oil with Teflon, I get great chain life, lasts 500 km between a quick wipe and and a reapplication unless caught out in the rain.
I got 5 years defy advanced pro and 3 years tcr advanced sl. I did 10ish mins on bobbo climb with defy in march but 30 sec slower in tcr with almost same average power recently. Not sure it is due to my pacing, deeper wheels (but lighter) or narrower bar (36 vs 42) or Strava randomness. However, it is more the price killing n+1 theory, indirectly impact endurance bike. The money I spent for 2 bikes is still less than 1 top model bike these days
I moved to wax a couple of years ago and live in an area that gets a lot of rain. I do a mix of hot wax and then drip wax in between hot treatments which are around 1K miles. Works beautifully and my drive train stays clean and quiet. I know people that do not carry anything as they are using tubeless. I also carry rubber gloves as hold over from days of oil based lubes. They roll up very small and don't take up that much space. I've given them to people not using wax if they have to deal with a flat or such. As an older rider now, I gave up my Supersix several years ago, and moved to the more relaxed geometry, and my back and shoulders thank me every ride. I know younger guys that never even looked at a more racer frame as they were not racing but just riding and enjoy the comfort.
If you did not know that crit racing was alive and well in the USA 6 or 7 years ago, you were not paying attention. Legion was preceded by UHC which was preceded by Saturn.
But why would people in another country pay attention to domestic crit racing in your country? It’s only now with Legion that the rest of the world is even aware of it.
@@discbrakefan They would not but that begs the question, why would they pay attention now? For the fights? That is like saying that people go to car races only for the crashes. Look a little deeper and you might realize that I was pointing out that the statement was not accurate and I gave examples.
@@whynotride327 I think they may have been paying attention for what Legion was doing (or portraying themselves to be doing) and the more energetic style of racing coming from those videos. But in the last couple of years it all seems pretty negative and people are more paying attention to the conflicts. Paying attention doesn’t mean enjoying or supporting it.
@25:30 - exactly - there's a life of the channel, so many things Cam could do cycling related without recycling content... a journey on the training/racing... the novelty/concept pieces since not making it to the european pro ranks - its a natural progression i.e. when there's a concept pitched by a sponsor or product owner OR when there's a random dumb idea what to make for a fun video. You guys have also evolved the channel from training & racing to a news style show.
JW is interesting. He’s obviously a great athlete. And people are attracted to aggressive nature of an athlete. I think the polarization comes he will complain if something is aggressive against him or team. So then that image of an aggressive athlete becomes tainted to a petty one. Because we can sort of argue that everyone has their different levels of what they deem acceptable in terms of how aggressive you can be out there. Also in terms of race, it’s a great story to have more diversity. On the flip side he also gets more protection because in these modern times you have to be careful of criticizing a person of color. Overall I think he’s good for the sport. Controversial characters are always in different sports and for the net positive results
Non-gimmicky endurance bikes are great bikes and great value (especially just below the top of the range models). They are especially great for riders who carry more weight in their upper body - not necessarily anyone overweight, just someone who does not have a "race snake" build. The main problem is how do you market this product positioning? The folks with significant money for a new bike do not want to self-associate to this demographic.
Let's be realistic here. The sole reason brands hesitate to address Legion behavior is likely due to the brothers being Black. In today's climate, any brand speaking out could face significant backlash, leading to protests and boycotts by BLM. It's a straightforward situation. Disagree or label me as you wish, but that appears to be the underlying reality
I have a riding friend who had some discomfort on his Sagan edition Roubaix. He dusted off his 2014 Giant TCR and found it more comfortable than his Roubaix. He’s 68 and rides almost daily. He’s considering a 2024 Defy. It’s the right bike for him for sure. If you’re an older rider who can ride comfortably, faster I’m all for an endurance bike.
The defy wood be great for someone like me who has back issues now. Who needs to be shorter reach and higher stack after having 3 burst disc, S1, L4 and L5. Im now running a new scultura with all the spacers and back issues gone but the handlings does feel a bit off compared to even half the spacers
Where's the TDT-Unibet jersey gone??😱😭 I was cheering last episode! You should get Bas @TourdeTietema on the show one day. Congrats to No 50👏Always one of my end-of-week highlights. Keep on going
I did message the guys, hoping to get them on before the end of the year. ps. the reason the jersey wasn't there is cause it is in the wash after riding in it.
Jesse, for spring to autumn, I run UFO drip on my bike. I feel that the wax is actually better than the oil, due to contaminants the oil brings. The wax you just put more wax on and your set. Although in winter its too sloppy, so i just use a cheap chain and ol faithful finishline green
I'm 64 and ride an ex-Katusha team Canyon with DuraAce Di2 and I can't remember the last time i rode faster than 40kph on a flat road, but I'm happy. I guess that my body just about remembers what it was like to race and my mind still thinks I'm 16. good chat again guys.
I ride a defy and I believe it is a great bike. I race crits on it and it climbs amazing. Although as a 23 year old you do get some odd looks. But that look changes when you crush them on a climb. You can easily adjust the position to both racing and comfort.
As an owner of a Defy it's indeed all about the geometry for me. Having some neck issues I basically quit riding the race bike I had. Then I got a secondhand defy (2021 ultegra model) and I love it. The huge increase in comfort has made it so I actually enjoy riding a bike again and I ride as general exercise plus just for the fun of it. It also means I can actually push harder, go faster etc despite being not aero in the slightest.
I don't see the point of the really high end models though, but I fail to see the point of those in general (even race models) unless you're a very rich racer either.
I think "Endurance" bikes like the Defy and the Endurace are exactly what the majority of people should be buying. Folk buying a SL8 and have a huge stack of spacers is pointless, none of the testing is done with that position or with that extra stack. I'd bet a defy slammed vs a SL8 with max spacers, the defy be more Aero. I don't think the Roubaix or the Domane should be in the same class, they are bikes with endurance geometry, but are specifically designed for one professional bike race a year, and that's it.
The thing is, the pros don’t ride those bikes for the cobbles anymore, they were kind of a hot item back in the early 2010s, pinarello did an elastomer “shock” in the seat stays if I remember correctly. They’re suited to the folks who take the occasional detour on their cycling trips. I’m in the camp of, if I might see rough roads, I’m gonna bring my gravel bike.
@brolland07 yeah true. That was the Dogma K I think it was called. Think we need a new name for Roubaix/ Domane bikes , road plus bikes or something. Then leave endurance bikes being good quality road bikes that can be raced/fast bunch/fondo rider types with better geometry
Lots of spacers under the stem don't make for good handling either, plus the likely hood of steerer tube failures. I ride with many middle age folks on aero bikes and I am yet to see anyone with anything less than all of the spacers the bike comes with (4/5cm). Funilly enough, I rarely see anyone riding in the drops and I often see people moving their hands away from the hoods (reach too long?...)
I ride an endurance frame with higher than average stack to compensate for my 155 cranks and very high saddle height. I have a reasonable handlebar drop, but still need a 1cm spacer under the stem. After riding frames with lower stacks and more spacers under the bars, I vastly prefer my current setup. I can ride on the drops all day and hold the aero hoods position for a long time, which for me are more significant gains than any aero frame out there.
PS: I did a bike fit before buying this frame too, precisely to avoid too many fit compromises (spacers, shorter stem, etc)
@nluisa 5-10mm under the stem isn't bad, see some of the pros with that.
I agree. And I would much rather ride an endurance bike with a slammed or nearly slammed stem than a race bike with 24mm of spacers.
Guys luv ur takes. Endurance bikes ARE for geezers like me. The stack and reach make cycling anything more than 10 miles super comfortable for me. One thing to consider, the 60+ age group, at least pre-retirement, has a good deal of disposable income which can be spent on cycling - if that's what they're into. There's more of us out there than you think.
On Endurance bikes: I am riding with the club that mainly focuses on long Endurance rides. Like 200-300-400-600km and so on. And you don't want to be in race position for 40 hours. Also the audience mainly is 40+ men who never raced professionaly so there's no sense for them to go for anything with race geometry. Glad you've covered this in the podcast.
Also I don't think its fair to compare just top end endurance bikes with similar spec road bikes (which you did in your endurance bike video). Endurance 105 Carbon bicycle from Canyon will cost you 2100 Euros, while Ultimate with 105 is 2900 Euro. I haven't done research on other brands, but I believe buying entry level endurance bike will be generally cheaper than similar spec racing analog.
based on what other people are saying and videos being posted show a pattern of this behavior. he rides recklessly time after time and gets away with it. the worst part is, any criticism of his obvious faults result in them crying racism. it really turns off normal people who are tired of the victim mentality at every turn.
“Normal people”
Blm was the ultimate expression of victim mentality
It's not good for society
Yeah Quinton, normal people, meaning people who don’t act like fucking assholes
It can be racially motivated too which is not supposed to be! I guarantee! You break the rules you break it and not any other reasons politically or socially!
@@quintonvance3807dude I love diversity in cycling and the idea of LEGION is awesome and I totally get this reaction. There are definitely racists that are dog whistling in regards to LEGION. However, the message and spirit of the team is hurt by LEGION riders (Kendall Ryan, Justin Williams, etc) being bullies. If they just rehabbed their attitude and racing strategy it'd go a long way to me supporting them. Kind of hard to watch the team run people into the gutter on videos and pretend to be ok with it.
🤩 Y’all have improved SOOO much over the 50 episodes
🎉 Massive congrats!!!
Congrats on 50 pods!! Not any specific comments on today's but just wanted to let y'all know that the Nero show has genuinely become my favorite bit of cycling content online. Feels just like mates having a chat at the coffee shop, always good stuff 🤘
Thanks for that!
Endurance bikes are great because they still have round seat posts and let you run a slammed stem without destroying your spinal discs. My next build will be an endurance frame
The Defy and the Roadmachine certainly don’t have round seat posts.
@@davidgeorge9233 point is they're much more available than in race/aero bikes.
They are also more likely to have a cockpit which doesn't need brakes bleeding just to service a headset.
@@nluisa that's worth at least 3 watts at 35 mph
My Defy doesn’t have a round seatpost and it kinda annoys me. I get it’s part of the comfort, it is very comfortable, but there’s no other options. I do love my Defy, great bike.
Look at the brit crits - THAT's real racing. Clean and precise, the bloke with the best legs and tactics wins - none of the US BS of crashing people out and getting unnecesarily physical with your competition.
Truth is no one really gives a shit about crit racing in the US. Gravel racing is simultaneously more popular with the masses and does much more to prepare riders with aspirations to ride road in Europe.
Yep, Gravel Racing is exploding in the US; even on the local Club level. Nobody gives a shit about crit racing.
Congrats on 50 guys! The best cycling chat on YT, way more enjoyable and listenable than the competition. I'm looking forward to this every week as long as it is not a vegan exclusive 😅
Sigh.... I couldn't count how many times I've had my legs ripped off by some old guy on a shitbox bike. If only more people could grasp it's about the legs and ticker, not the bloody bike.
Amen. I mountain bike a lot and have been passed on many Xc courses by some ole fart who just has a serious gas tank and nice pace.
I think brands are still not marketing to what the endurance bike market really wants to buy. There is the geometry thing, but these buyers also tend to be more into easier-to-adjust bikes which means 27.2 seatposts, standard stems/bars, no integrated light systems etc. Simplify the bike, lower the price and you've got something good
100% I don't really mind brands going balls to the wall on their flagship race bikes, but please keep a simple bike around for all the people that don't want to sacrifice usability for marginal gains
Completely agree....the bike can still be super cool looking and specced very nice with nice features. But keeping some of the stuff simple would be a huge marketing approach.
Wait a couple decades. When you are 50 and over not racing just doing long rides, you will want a bike with endurance geometry.
Congratulations on 50 episodes. Well done guys! Your show is massively entertaining. It has improved by leaps and bounds since the beginning. Keep up the good work. Please watch out for the dreaded youtube burnout syndrome.
Thanks for the kind words mate. Honestly we are really committed to making this sustainable and continuing to improve. So this means a lot.
Everyone I know who waxes a chain does it because they ride both indoors and outdoors and don't want to bring a greasy chain inside. That's why I do it, I don't care about the watts. It's just orders of magnitude cleaner and less maintenance if you do it right.
No way guys, Jeff from NorCal is the reason a lot of us pay attention to crit racing in America. The Miami / Orlando crit scene is huge as well.
Yeah, they seem to be bigger in IG but the views on their race videos are quite low
Oh that's a given mate ... Jeff and Alviso 🏆
I have both a tcr and a defy. Even with the same size tires, they are not even close.
The tcr is way stiffer and snappier. They defy is what I use for a fun ride. The TCR is what I use if I am chasing someone.
What Giant has done with the Defy is very welcome and fills the hole left by the out going Cannondale Synapse HiMod (previous gen). Race bike like feel, light weight, top end spec, forgiving geometry, capacity of wider tyres, and somewhat better compliance (seat post / carbon layup / carbon quality i.e. HiMod) but with no stupid gimmicks. Well done Giant
It's disappointing that their sponsors are avoiding flak for such bad rider sportsmanship. I feel like the sponsors should start to get some heat too for this
The sponsors are reluctant to withdraw their support to a team led by a black man. That could be judged as racist.
Sponsors should never be responsible for someone’s behavior. It’s like the FRYE Festival. Ppl said the models should be held accountable…what??? For advertising something.
Naw cuz. Sponsors shouldn’t be held responsible for an athletes actions. They can pull their sponsorship if the athlete does something too far.
Belter episode guys! I justified updating my Roubaix to a Tarmac SL7 this year because I race and about 3 hours into an endurance I always get the same longing (in my shoulders usually) to be back on the Roubaix!
Age check?
Congratulations on 50!! I find myself coming back week after week. Tuning in from Arkansas U.S.A.
Congrats on #50 !!!🎉 The dominance of "Race Bike" in the cycling world has definitely hurt the Endurance market. Giant has been the one brand that has strongly supported & promoted their Endurance geometry Defy, which is an excellent bike. The geometry (ie; Stack & Reach) on most of the very popular Race oriented bikes (Road & Gravel) are drastically different . For those of us who have reached a certain age, have physical "limitations", Injuries, etc but still want to have a very capable bike the choices are limited. Hopefully there will always be a few to choose from.
As a Club member said one day, when the group was admiring his new fancy race oriented bike " New Bike, Same Engine" .😂
You two, and this channel, ARE the new things that came up in my feed. Previously I only subscribed to NorCal Cycling while still regularly watching Lanterne Rouge and Phil Gaimon.
Congrats on the Big 50 guys! Love the show, the content and the guest appearances from other TH-camrs. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! Will do!
Getting back in to cycling after having been away for three years (twins were born and the whole covid thing) and the Defy feels like it checks all my boxes. I am not a racer and just want to ride for enjoyment as well as be able to light gravel.
Use to ride a 54cm Caad12 with 10mm of spacers so a stack of 561, so a Medium Defy would be no spacers and 275mm of seatpost sticking out haha
After talking with friends that own bike shops or work in them they all said the same. The vast majority of people who buy a race bike, will need to make changes for them to get comfortable in them. While the endurance bikes will fit almost everyone. If you want the looks of the race bike, but you run 20 spacers or a larger frame with the seat post all the way down, let me tell you, it looks bad. A endurance bike will be easier to slam the stem or even running a longer one. In my opinion, A LOT of people run the wrong frame because they want that race bike, while they can’t be in the race bike position.
Lots of spacers, as I see on most aero bikes out there, also make for poor handling and possible steerer tube failures. I don't mind looks at all, but getting a bike only for it to handle poorly, seems a waste of money. I also don't see many of those riders using the drops that much. I wonder why...
Arguing against endurance bikes is arguing for a lack of options. It's like asking someone why they want an Audi Q7 because there's an RS6 that's faster and sportier
Let the people have choice!
I have a Defy Advanced 2021. I specifically bought it because of it’s geometry. I have lumber disc hernia and stretching too much causes me discomfort. I tried my friend’s similarly sized Fuji Altamira and I stopped 3 times at my ride because of back pain. I have never used it’s drops but with Defy I can ride without much discomfort and I can use drops a lot more easily. I haven’t been in a race yet and I can agree standard road bikes can be faster with fitter and healthier riders because of their more aero geometry, snappier handling etc. But in my case having a more relaxed geometry makes me to push more. I have many good results and even KOMs on Strava and there are people with better, lighter and more aero bikes on these segments. I think it ultimately comes down to rider being in a perfect harmony with bike.
Congrats guys on your 50th episode milestone 👍👍👍👍
Studio setup and lighting gone a level up! Nice!
🙏🏻
I did the marathon on the weekend and I was someone dumping gels. They didn’t have any designated rubbish zone like you’d see in major bike race. I tried to dump mine in the aid stations with the millions of cups on the ground but it didn’t always work out that way
The new Defy makes alot of sense in northern Europe as all round/ light gravel bike. Its light, has 38/40c clearance, road bike'ish geometry without screw holes on every tube but has mudguard mounts!
My take on endurance bikes, after solely riding on a gravelbike for 2 years, is that endurance bikes were killed by gravelbikes.
Slap some 32mm slicks on a gravelbike and you've got yourself an endurance bike, possibly with even more relaxed geometry than an endurance bike (which is what makes it endurance, right?).
With added bonus of low gears (30 front + 34 back ftw!), mounting points and possibility to run a second wheelset with >40mm gravel tires that are even capable of shredding non-technical singletracks.
Where's the added value of an endurance bike in here?? I don't see it.
Here's my take. Endurance bike is the bike normal people (non-pro. trains hard but doesn't get paid for it) SHOULD be riding if they are not fitting the aggressive geometry.
A lot of people get aggressive race bikes, fit 30mm of spacers below the stem and essentially turn it into endurance bikes anyway.
Instead, get an endurance bike, slam the stem and your stack is still bigger than a race bike. It looks more aggressive while not being so. It will be more comfortable and you'll actually end up riding it faster because you're not in pain.
I know some companies' endurance bikes is same geometry as their race bike. That to me makes 0 sense. I like what Cervelo is doing for example. From the outside a black / white r5, soloist and caledonia and aspero look pretty much the same. But their geometry is very different and get more and more aggressive as you go up the chain.
Exactly - too many are kidding themselves buying race bikes - but the joke is on them; they look ridiculous, not cool. Get a bike that fits you, not one you think you should be riding because you're gullible - and influenced by pros.
Congrats on 50. Currently my favorite show.
Bought a Cannondale Synapse back in 2017 because of our rough chip roads and the fact I could fit 28-30mm tires, wasn't too much around then that could, certainly not any "race bikes". I raced this bike for years, bonus it had a slopping top tube for getting down in the aero tuck (banned by the UCI but UCI has no jurisdiction here). Used this bike for gravel riding as well before getting a gravel bike (which is a much better option). Also have the latest model TCR, the fit is capable of being the same, but now I've fitted a slightly shorter and slightly higher Redshift suspension stem to the Synapse for super long endurance rides. The TCR is a better bike for sprint workouts, just a stiffer frame, but if there were still races around (they have mostly disappeared) I would still quite possibly choose the Synapse for the longer races on our rough chip roads. The new TCR can fit 32mm tires with it's disc brakes, but I've only done just over 1200kms over 2.5 years on it. Being the last of the "race bikes" that doesn't have fully hidden cables it's probably going to be the last bike I buy. I would never buy the newer Synapse, Cannondale have really lost the plot with the newer one with the integrated lights etc.
Just bought a pro jersey from Rapha shop in Melbourne yesterday, I had no idea they are supporting bullying in sport. Definitely not buying anything from them in the future.
Rapha is owned by walmart enough said.
We were waxing chains back in the 80's. Just love how younger people think it is the "new and best thing since sliced bread". History will show that we all go back to wet lube because it is "easier and more convenient".
At 62 I should be the target audience for a Defy. The only problem is I have spent the last 15 years riding bikes with race geometry. So when I try an endurance bike (and I have) , I quickly find out why I don't enjoy endurance geometry by tipping it into a corner and frightening myself. It does not handle how I expect a bike to handle, it just wallows. I prefer the precise feel of race bike and willing to get beaten up on long rides for that feeling/control. So my new bike is not a Defy but a Propel (currently with 15mm of spacers, but likely to be less)
I truly appreciate your take on legion/williams, we all know the answer...
The Bianchi Infinito is another endurance bike that is still a racey road bike and has no weird gimmicks.
Agree with Jesse - get the bike that fits best. Some endurance geometry bikes look cool and go fast. But also, a lot of people better fit “race” geometry.
I love my “endurance bike”. The key as you have mentioned is the geometry. Putting a shorter stem on a race bike is not the same thing. Seat angle, head tube angles are more relaxed and are designed around that-the handling is less twitchy. As some one that sells bikes, I believe that the majority of amateur riders should be on an endurance bikes. Gravel bikes have too easy of gearing to make them good for group rides.
Very true but the new defy is not that bike
Endurance Bike -you are totally correct Chris, frame specs are the main reason for an endurance bike.
Once you start loosing spinal flexibility, it’s time to move to a shorter reach, higher stack bike.
Bike rides are not all in peak condition and in our thirties.
Endurance Bike every time for me!
We don’t all need a race bike! 🚴
But you can absolutely use some endurance bikes as race bikes!
Just missed the Shimano news.
34 year old here with a cervelo Caledonia 5. It's actually my second one. I run a frame size down and fat tyres. Room for fenders in winter too. Ultimate all season, all country bike. Will tour euro mountains next year with a tailfin
Just used a sized down Caledonia 5 on a 1600 miler. Perfect bike for endurance all day biking. Not sore at all
Intrigued to read the results of this. I’m slowly getting into TH-cam just because I think you can make cooler more in-depth stuff. Hoping people learn a few things and enjoy watching the longer form 360cam footage along with the short insta stuff.
Here's a bike you can discuss: the second tier Van Rysel seems to be crazy value! Aero frame, SRAM Force etap, Quarq powermeter, ZIPP 404s for 4800EUR/8000AUD :o
I'm actually a bit sad that I'm not looking for a new bike right now.
I love this podcast. It's the only cycling content that doesn't feel like people rattling off a spec sheet. Love the chat.
One thing, you should link to any of the youtubers or topics you cover. It'd be great to read or watch more of the stuff I'm interested in.
Glad you enjoy it!
I do always link the channels we reference in the description, let me know if I missed something form this week
@@ChrisMillerCyclingyou have too. I was looking for the bike packing one and didn't make the connection between the TH-cam handle and what I was looking for.
Thanks
I perceive the change in Dylan Johnson’s video as the direct result of him inching toward the very top level of his sport. He’s now walking the walk vs. talking the talk. So it’s actually made me like him more.
Jesse’s still alive! Phew
My biggest issue with most modern endurance bikes ( excluding the new Defy ) is they share more in common with gravel bikes than race bikes.
Caffeine gel talk cracked me up! Couldn't agree more.
I am older (59) and am no longer comfortable on a bike with race geometry although I love the light weight and speed. The endurance bike is perfect for my demographic due to the higher stack and less reach since as we age we are just not as flexible. The other option less flexible riders would have is to buy a race bike with a long steering tube shorter stem which makes the handling horrible. As for huge tires, suspensions and other gimmicks, many of us oldies don't plan on riding cobbles and gravel roads anymore.
Endurance bike is best bike. Giant Defy Advanced gang for life. The new 2023 Defy looks pretty great, might trade in my older one for it. If I'm doing a 100k ride and I'm going to hit some rough tarmac, I dread taking out a race bike like my old CAAD10. I go for the Defy every time because it's 95% of the bike but twice as comfortable.
Not sure about the hidden cables but that seatpost looks nice, skinny and comfortable!
These are the use cases for my endurance bike (Canyon Endurace CF SLX 8) as my 3rd bike while owning a Tarmac SL7 (race bike) and a Specialized Diverge (Gravel bike)
1. Rainy day bike if I want to stay on road
2. Trainer bike
3. Travel bike as it’s external cable routing allows me to fit it in a compact case with some disassembly
4. Fast gravel race bike. With some 32mm Pathfinders it’s actually a very fast gravel bike for light gravel/compact dirt and/or mixed light gravel/road courses.
5. Comfort bike for long rides when my body is feeling a bit beat up as it’s slightly more comfortable than my SL7.
6. Spare bike if my SL7 is ever unavailable for repairs or parts.
Is it a luxury to own a bike like this as a 3rd bike? Yes absolutely but this is how I see my endurance bike and I appreciate it for its versatility.
The new Defy seems to be a bit racier fit than other endurance bikes. in my size (medium), the stack and reach are only 13mm higher and 8mm shorter than the TCR so should be pretty easy to get the same fit on both. They could pitch the Defy to those like me who ride on the road most of the time but want a bike that can take 38mm tires for when they venture offroad. Until recently approaching this from the "road" perspective was more difficult and most bought a gravel bike and a second set of wheels; but i can see getting something like the Defy and a second set of gravel wheels being a good option for those who are going to use it on road most of the time.
Hey Chris and Jesse. Just recently started watching your TH-cam and love the content, new and old. I had a question about a topic in this video. Do you guys have a preference or recommendation on caffeinated gels? Or do you prefer using caffeine capsules? What is a targeted caffeine amount that you will go for if you’re looking to use either a gel or a capsule?
Chris, the Chapter 2 Toa geometry is the same as a Super Six Evo. Slightly more stack than a lot of race bikes, but still not in endurance bike territory. It’s a good middle ground.
Hey guys another good show! Perfect for an easy hour on the trainer. I’m sold on Endurance bikes. My next bike was going to be the Endurace until I saw the Defy. Super sporty and the other thing with endurance bikes is the price point. Great components and builds for less. For a mid 40s regular rider endurance fits the bill. And let’s be honest who wants an 80 mil stem on an Emonda! I can say that because that’s what I run.
I appreciate Alec Briggs' camera work. Really captures the thrill.
Chris so true about geometry. If the average consumer or even keen roadies knew what was good for them, the endurance bike should never be dead. It's the right fitting bike for most people. People want the grand tour lightweight or aero bike even though they are getting dinishing returns and worse fitting geometry. As bike fit James says on Cade Media, fit first buy second.
just here to say i love the show, always happy when a episode come out. Regards from Chile!
Re Williams brothers and Legion, sponsors are for sure looking for ways out. It takes a bit of time with contracts, and due to the fact that it's not the whole Legion team that crosses the line. I know some of them and they're fair. But the leadership is insecure and rotten.
Interesting, i bought a TCR as my endurance/road bike exactly because it was so compliant and versatile. I run 28/32mm Tubeless and a shorter stem. Perfect all round bike that I could still slam on raceday if i ever race!
Great show guys keep up the good work !!!🎉
I ride a Giant Defy for the reasons Chris talked about: better geometry for me (I have long legs and short torso/arms so I need short reach and tall headtube) and no gimmicks like Roubaix and Domane (except for the D fuse seatpost). Oh and I can fit 35s and now its a decent gravel bike.
Hej Guys, great episode and as if it should be I am in the dilemma of the main topic :)))). Started riding last year on a 7 year old cannondale synapse and now there is a nice deal on a tcr advanced 0 (2022) but is a race bike the right fit coming from a more relaxed geometry :D Keep up the good stuff and excited for the next 50 episodes!
You might be OK on a more aero type bike if your rides or 20 miles ish. when you get into 50+ miles you’re gonna want the endurance bike. What’s the first thing people ask when you’re done with your bike ride “how far did you go?”Nobody ever asks how fast did you go?
Chris- "grandpa bike"
Also Chris- "racing masters this weekend "
😂
I have a 2019 Domane SLR rim brake, the last of it's kind and I love it. The head tube is not as tall as the Defy, it's a 6.9 kg comfy race bike ...
I have an endurance bike (Cervelo Caledonia 5)…and love it. My next bike will be an aero bike but never selling my endurance
Congratulations on the 50th episode been a follower since the Nero Team years. 🎉 On the endurance bikes like Jessie said I would rock that Defy all day. As I do not race but like to go fast and now that it’s almost as light as the TCR why not think about it as my next bike. Everyone thinks they want a race bike until their back starts crying and you start breaking down.
Owner of a Giant Defy Advanced here (previous model, not the latest release) - I bought it because:
- the tire width doesn't affect speed (until we're talking massive size ofc)
- I occasionally run into unexpected gravel sections on roads that I explore and I really don't want to do that with 25-28mm tires
- it's very comfortable to ride; the roads around here are very hit and miss, so I want something that won't rattle me completely
- I live close to the local Giant bikes distributor which is also a repair shop etc., so it's simplifies maintenance, warranty and stuff like that
- I'm not at the level where less aero frame and more weight (it does weigh 9.4 or 9.7kg though) is going to significantly affect my performance during Grand Fondos, L'etapes and such
When I was buying it, I was choosing between Giant Defy Advanced and a similar Canyon model (around 1200€ more expensive, with some features that Giant Defy Advanced doesn't have), so the price and shop proximity ultimately decided it for me. Have to say I'm VERY happy with the choice. The only real hassle is putting on the race number on the head tube because it's pretty bulky, same goes for the handlebars due to the way brake and gear cables are.
The new model being like 1.7kg lighter is astonishing to me, that's amazing.
I live in the UK (scotland as well) and wouldn't use anything other than wax lube. I just dont hot melt during the winter, but wouldn't use a wet lube getting my chain all gunky🤢
Awesome Lads, one of your best! Happy Friday 👍
Thanks for watching
As someone with the new Defy still in my house for review, can confirm:
- it's hot. Could and would ride it
- perception around endurance certainly did a lot of damage to the category
- it's bloody light and terrific to ride
- a lot of TCR riders should be on a Defy
- many riders I rode with thought this was "a TCR with hidden cables?" (was the question)
Fondo riders who want something like a sub 9hrs Three Peaks (hell even a sub 8) would be right at home on this.
Hey, it’s me
Great content man, keep it up
Man a new defy would be a massive upgrade to my aluminum endurance tank I currently ride.
The sponsors aren't abandoning or condemning Legion for fear of Williams and his fan boys playing the race card.
"Grandpa Bike". Just remember we'll all be Grandpas at some point and we still want to look cool on a bike ;)
I think 11:15 "people don't want the endurance bike" is the biggest reason for their downfall. A lot of casual riders would be better on an endurance geometry but just want the race version because they think it makes them faster without realizing speed will not be their concern on a 6 hour weekend ride
Great show guy's 👏 .....
In my 60's and ride my TCR. Defy not needed. I keep thinking about waxed chains, but I use an oil with Teflon, I get great chain life, lasts 500 km between a quick wipe and and a reapplication unless caught out in the rain.
I got 5 years defy advanced pro and 3 years tcr advanced sl. I did 10ish mins on bobbo climb with defy in march but 30 sec slower in tcr with almost same average power recently. Not sure it is due to my pacing, deeper wheels (but lighter) or narrower bar (36 vs 42) or Strava randomness. However, it is more the price killing n+1 theory, indirectly impact endurance bike. The money I spent for 2 bikes is still less than 1 top model bike these days
I moved to wax a couple of years ago and live in an area that gets a lot of rain. I do a mix of hot wax and then drip wax in between hot treatments which are around 1K miles. Works beautifully and my drive train stays clean and quiet. I know people that do not carry anything as they are using tubeless. I also carry rubber gloves as hold over from days of oil based lubes. They roll up very small and don't take up that much space. I've given them to people not using wax if they have to deal with a flat or such. As an older rider now, I gave up my Supersix several years ago, and moved to the more relaxed geometry, and my back and shoulders thank me every ride. I know younger guys that never even looked at a more racer frame as they were not racing but just riding and enjoy the comfort.
If you did not know that crit racing was alive and well in the USA 6 or 7 years ago, you were not paying attention. Legion was preceded by UHC which was preceded by Saturn.
But why would people in another country pay attention to domestic crit racing in your country?
It’s only now with Legion that the rest of the world is even aware of it.
@@discbrakefan They would not but that begs the question, why would they pay attention now? For the fights? That is like saying that people go to car races only for the crashes.
Look a little deeper and you might realize that I was pointing out that the statement was not accurate and I gave examples.
@@whynotride327 I think they may have been paying attention for what Legion was doing (or portraying themselves to be doing) and the more energetic style of racing coming from those videos.
But in the last couple of years it all seems pretty negative and people are more paying attention to the conflicts.
Paying attention doesn’t mean enjoying or supporting it.
Our A grade crit was won recently on an entry level roubaix. Perception is important, but this bike needs more praise.
@25:30 - exactly - there's a life of the channel, so many things Cam could do cycling related without recycling content... a journey on the training/racing... the novelty/concept pieces since not making it to the european pro ranks - its a natural progression i.e. when there's a concept pitched by a sponsor or product owner OR when there's a random dumb idea what to make for a fun video. You guys have also evolved the channel from training & racing to a news style show.
JW is interesting. He’s obviously a great athlete. And people are attracted to aggressive nature of an athlete. I think the polarization comes he will complain if something is aggressive against him or team. So then that image of an aggressive athlete becomes tainted to a petty one. Because we can sort of argue that everyone has their different levels of what they deem acceptable in terms of how aggressive you can be out there.
Also in terms of race, it’s a great story to have more diversity. On the flip side he also gets more protection because in these modern times you have to be careful of criticizing a person of color.
Overall I think he’s good for the sport. Controversial characters are always in different sports and for the net positive results
Non-gimmicky endurance bikes are great bikes and great value (especially just below the top of the range models). They are especially great for riders who carry more weight in their upper body - not necessarily anyone overweight, just someone who does not have a "race snake" build. The main problem is how do you market this product positioning? The folks with significant money for a new bike do not want to self-associate to this demographic.
Let's be realistic here. The sole reason brands hesitate to address Legion behavior is likely due to the brothers being Black. In today's climate, any brand speaking out could face significant backlash, leading to protests and boycotts by BLM. It's a straightforward situation. Disagree or label me as you wish, but that appears to be the underlying reality
Giant could just axe the Defy and have a TCR with 2 geometries - a la Trek H1 vs H2 fit. 🤔
I have a riding friend who had some discomfort on his Sagan edition Roubaix. He dusted off his 2014 Giant TCR and found it more comfortable than his Roubaix. He’s 68 and rides almost daily. He’s considering a 2024 Defy. It’s the right bike for him for sure. If you’re an older rider who can ride comfortably, faster I’m all for an endurance bike.
Maurten is the PNS of sports nutrition😂
oooooh ... I like this take.
My N+1 garage has 3 road bikes. A climber, endurance & aero. I do my own bike fit, and all 3 have as close a fit as possible to each other.
The defy wood be great for someone like me who has back issues now. Who needs to be shorter reach and higher stack after having 3 burst disc, S1, L4 and L5.
Im now running a new scultura with all the spacers and back issues gone but the handlings does feel a bit off compared to even half the spacers
Caleb is the best! He almost never has a team lead out. He has to jump on other teams wheels all the time.
Where's the TDT-Unibet jersey gone??😱😭 I was cheering last episode! You should get Bas @TourdeTietema on the show one day.
Congrats to No 50👏Always one of my end-of-week highlights. Keep on going
Me too! I like Bas Tietema, Devin and the team.
I did message the guys, hoping to get them on before the end of the year. ps. the reason the jersey wasn't there is cause it is in the wash after riding in it.
Jesse, for spring to autumn, I run UFO drip on my bike. I feel that the wax is actually better than the oil, due to contaminants the oil brings. The wax you just put more wax on and your set.
Although in winter its too sloppy, so i just use a cheap chain and ol faithful finishline green