I always noticed they appeared to have empathy until someone close to them got sick and it was like a light bulb turned off and the emotions left with them like they can't be bothered.
This is very true, I'm going through it. The unsolicited advise, lack of understanding or patience or listening or empathy kindness and caring set the light bulb off. Even down to them plucking out lies about how I'd been when they were ill when I was a teenager. Plus their demands on my time and STILL wanting what they want it's proven to me that their faux empathy is a pack of lies. They don't want to know or hear how you feel unless it benefits them or makes them look good. I think they only do the faux empathy because when the chips are down they're fearful people so they do it to keep people around them rather than genuine love. When all fails they go for the guilt trips
My ex psycho would cry watching a documentary about the holocaust for example but had no empathy for me or the people closest to her. When my father and my dogs died she was very cold and couldn't understand why and would get mad at me, because I was sad and grieving. Neglect is the narcissist's secret weapon.
Perfect analogy, when my husband's dad died it was all in. My heart ached for him.when my father died it was crickets. I dealt alone.when our pets were ill I had to deal with it he would ignore them drove me crazy sick to my stomach for months.and he's the one that brings the animals home but won't care for them.
Didn't figured out yet? Narcissists CANNOT feel empathy for anyone whenever they are part of the context!!! It becomes about them!!! However they are not emotionless. They show humanity whenever they are not part of the equation. That's how it is!
Narcissists with a savior complex. My parents are both like this. They treat their family like crap, but treat strangers like gold. They love the attention from being such a great community helper. There's no attention from being a good person behind closed doors towards their family.
I never knew or believed that "dead eyes" was a real thing, until the moment I saw his. The lack of empathy while you're broken and exhausted, or frantic or physically sick with anxiety in front of them and they stare like you're not even there.
I have witnessed my narcissist husband turn on the empathy switch to strangers sooooo many times. Just a simple example, when he was love bombing me when we courted, he said many times that he wanted children. The three times I got pregnant, the three times, he dumbfoundly reacted negativaly,:" Oh! No!", was his reaction and made me feel so guilty for being so happy, well, I reacted by pretty well caring, raising doing everything myself so to minimize bothering my hysband with our children. He never played, read books, disciplined, etc...But, when he would see a woman pushing a stroller with a young child, he would bend down with his fake smile, and say "Allô toi🎵🎶🎼🎵🎶! and baby talk with the child! To this day, when I see this behavior, just makes me nauseous ! So, to think THEY do have empathy, but choose not to use it, is sickening.
@@thanksagainforthetea Exactly! And what a surprise that it's "thanksagainforthetea", my new friend. Apparently we would do well at co-authoring a book. :)
The narcissist does pretty much everything for show. They’re concerned only on appearances. I’ve seen my narcissistic father show kindness in public, however, I’ve seen his rage. Heaven forbid if the waiter doesn’t bring us cocktail on time. Behind close doors, my father called me “fat and ugly”, and while in public, if someone commented how pretty his daughter was, he had no problem accepting the compliment. It truly is all about image and impressions.
Ya know, the fact narcissists have ‘fully developed’ empathy (this is how I think of it ) but decide when and how to use it almost seems worst to me because they know what they are doing and it’s deliberate
Yess! You know, they always sucker us, and when they come back around and finally do all the things we wanted them to do. But I once had someone advise me to never fall for that , because they’re just showing that they knew exactly what to do the whole time to make us happy, and they chose not to , until they lost us !!!! 💯💯💯 ever since I heard it said that way I see it totally differently!
Empathy means acting with conscience thought and feeling that persons pain. So IMHO they don't have very much empathy at all and they only act with conscience thought when they KNOW they have to show empathy or give themselves away.
I’ve worked in humanitarian circles almost my entire career. I have also been in graduate school in the humanities. So believe me when I say this; behind almost every social justice warrior is a covert narcissist. Thanks for giving me the language for it. They care deeply about large global or community issues and have all the key phrases and taglines. But in one on one encounters? They don’t care at all. Took me a while to catch on.
Yeeeep. The most toxic workplace I ever worked in was a nonprofit organization. It was FULL of narcissists. I experienced the same thing when volunteering at different organizations. 100% of them were completely covert.
YES! That is my dad. I always thought he was a good guy..helping those in need. I now realize he was just helping himself feel better about his lack of a job/ a career/ commitments .... He wants to play tennis ( but not pay child support). Thanks for this. He also is a political advocate- for the left. I'm liberal, and yes ( I learned a lot from him) but I can see his lack of empathy. Thanks Dr. Ramani too.
That could be police officers too and their wives who support them who say they are doing something really good for the public and contributing to society when in actuality they're destroying lives and they are taking a lot of money away from society that could be used for other things
I think the same thing could be said for teachers who claim they're doing so much for society or police officers who claim they're helping society so much when they are getting a lot of money from the tax payer and criminalizing people and destroying a lot of lives ..no one is going to tell me that the police and teachers do not have a lot of people with sadistic personality disorders.
I could never understand my husband not caring when I'm upset, yet cried when all the fires happened near our home and he cried for all the burnt trees, absolutely ridiculous and confusing.
Thank you for saying: I needed the money, but I needed the selfrespect more. I'm in the middle of a divorce with a narcissist. This helpt me so much to accept the unfairness of it all. Thank you.
When I asked a guy I was getting to know about what came across to me as an inappropriate or judgemental comment he made about my past trauma that I had confided in him, he said he was ‘expressing empathy’, which made no sense. I didn’t get a feeling of empathy at all from his comment, rather it felt like a dig meant to make me feel smaller. It was a weird response from him. So I slowly backed away from him, kept my boundaries to see what he’d do. And sure enough he started going cold and distant when I didn’t do what he wanted, and suddenly out of the blue he had a girlfriend he ‘wasn’t sure about’. So let him go. Proud of myself for standing up for myself and grateful for all I’ve learnt to see it and walk away as needed. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
It is heartbreaking when the empath realizes that they were blamed by the narcissist or antagonist person for being their enabler. When enough is enough and you have to get away from the predator. Can an empath also be an enabler?
@@KatieWynn97 Most certainly, empaths enable narcissists. It’s what makes us their ‘drug of choice’. We have to have as little contact with toxic people as possible. You get really good at discerning the authentic people in your life when you finally put your foot down to narcissism. That meant I had to let go of a lot of my own people pleasing, self erasing & debasing beliefs, codepency, etc… still letting go of a lot & feel as though I cut out all my friends wondering if I’m the sicko… but realized I was repeating all the old family relationship dynamics with all my friends. (many, anyway) I kept setting myself up to get chumped by people. Just best to be on my own for a little while until I can choose more wisely…
When her daughter accidentally knocked the plant to the floor, he sat in his chair and laughed out loud at both the loss, and efforts to fix and save the plant. Seeing another person experience loss or dissappointment seemed like fun for him to see. He didnt help to get it back together of course. In the front yard, he watches his partner work hard. Suddenly he approaches and caringly offers to take over the shovelling or digging. It seems caring, but, it is the person who is walking by the house who he aims to impress with his generous kindness to help out.
It's hard to have empathy for a narcissist. I used to say when he would get upset about something trivial after intentionally gas lighting and upsetting me I would rub my two fingers together and say this is me playing the world's smallest violin just for you. The payback was watching him beat himself while out in the yard after stumbling on a yellow jacket nest.
@@angelakh4147 Possibly :) If you said you wanted to buy soil for your garden, and he replied smirking meanly - No! Go and make the dirt! then it could be the same one. True story. However it only shows the mindset of terribly mean stingy thinking on the part of that person and doesn’t reflect on anyone else. 💕
OMG! Performative empathy! Thank you! That fully describes my 25 year experience with a "best friend" who just discarded me a day after my father's funeral, because, the same day as the funeral, her daughter got engaged, and I wasn't all over FB praising her. I was grieving!!!
Thank you Dr. Ramani, I was always confused by the niceness followed by the bad treatment after, and the gaslighting, leaving me thinking I was crazy . I would be left wondering what I had done, this has gone on for years. Thanks to Dr. Ramani it is becoming clear what and who is the problem and I am working on emotionally separating myself from this person.
Omg. This one hit home for me. To be with someone who could watch me cry uncontrollably and move around their day without any acknowledgment was what I experienced. And had so much for others and just like you said, strangers or those he didn’t take too much of his time. Ugh
They apologize. And when you haven't quite figured out who they are or what you're dealing with, you say, "It's okay. I forgive you." Then they suddenly turn into an entirely different person and continue to attack and abuse you. It's devastating to realize that their empathy is reserved for "special occasions," like when they find it convenient, to receive accolades from others, to manipulate and control you, and maintain their image.
To me, “ empathy” requires both components: 1) intellectual awareness of what the other person is feeling or how they would react; but also 2) caring about what the other person is or would be feeling. I don’t consider someone without compassion to have “empathy”. Semantics I suppose, but ultimately, someone who weaponizes their knowledge of others’ vulnerability is not a good person, even dangerous, and must ideally be avoided. “Transactional”, “performative”, and “cognitive “ empathy seem to me to be the more precise and useful terms.
This makes so much sense. My husband can be so cold and uncaring with me, and yet be so kind to others. One time I told him I wished he could JUST treat me like he treats his workmates or strangers!!! Thank you. Now I know why!!!
@--The_Doctor_Ramani I'm not sure how this works. I've never left a message before. Your videos have made me realize what I've been enduring for almost 50 years of marriage. I feel broken, but trying to get help to pull myself out of this depression. My mother committed suicide when I was 9. It's been a difficult life, but I truly want it to get better. At least now I know what I've been faced with for so many years. Your videos have brought it all to light!!! Thank you so much!
I ADORE how Dr. Ramani does NOT let narcissists get away with it. She never shows them empathy, because they're NOT THE VICTIMS. She understands that the victims need the empathy. And to reverse that, would be gaslighting, and would further traumatize the real victims.
I asked my ex narcissistic partner why he couldn't show comfort/compassion to me when I was upset. He actually said he "didn't have it in him", and that he can't deal with crying because it reminds him of his own feelings. I thought that was quite insightful for a narcissist! So I ended it after this conversation but he tried to get back with me. This time, his empathy was used manipulatively. As I was talking about my frustrations with another person, he did hug me but at the same time, started trying to kiss me etc. Then when I pulled away, I was "cold"!
Oh my Goodness, “performative Empathy” is perfect way to describe what my ex so often displayed. As my kids went to school, he volunteered to become the class parents representative, then let me do all the actual work. He was so nice to me, to my kids and to everybody at events and gatherings where he had audience. Later, such events were absolutely the only moments I saw him behave more or less nicely. I used to dread the moment when we got into the car and the good mood was turned off. Just like when the light suddenly goes out and you feel the chill. Or if the good mood keeps going you are forced to have sex. I am out of that hell.
They have only cognitive empathy. This means they are fastidious about doing and saying things that indicate they have concern for you. Unlike many grandiose narcissists, a covert narcissist has a cognitive understanding of how people behave when they have concern for others. But when the chips are down in your life, such as you are the victim of a crime, you are very sick, or you lose your job, the covert narcissist is chilly, abandoning, and just “doesn’t get it.” They may blame you for your misfortune. The covert narcissist can’t summon any of the normal ways of caring in these moments. In these ways, they reveal themselves to have no emotional empathy. Depending on how long it takes for you to experience such incidents, you could go for years not realizing that your partner is a narcissist. They may literally turn their back on you, over seemingly trivial matters. This is a trait they share with grandiose narcissists. Maybe they get annoyed that you’re walking too slow and leave you alone while they rush ahead, or they get impatient with what you’re saying and turn around while you’re in mid-sentence, or maybe you’re a little late for a social function that you’re attending as a couple, only to find them already inside as if they weren’t at the event with you. They probably appear charming and competent to those who don’t live with them. A covert narcissist’s constant striving for perfection often results in a set of traits that most of us (who are not obsessed with perfection) admire, as long as we don’t get too close to the narcissist. This makes explaining the upside-down hall of mirrors that is your shared intimate space with the covert narcissist impossible to explain to those outside the relationship, who will assume you are either exaggerating, or that your relationship skills are lacking. The covert narcissist may be a pillar of the community, or has lofty, well thought-out ideals. The striving for perfection of a covert narcissist often results in associating themselves with highly regarded intellectuals, businesspeople, or other such pillars of the community, such that the covert narcissist appears to be a pillar of the community themselves. Additionally, covert narcissists can identify with a vision of societal utopia, and become a zealot about their particular ideals, whether liberal or conservative. The covert narcissist is surprisingly lazy. Despite their lofty ideals or connections, the covert narcissist often does little to no work to actually earn the respect of people in the community through their actions. Their ideals or connections are a facade they choose instead of real effort and commitment. They can be sexually faithful. Unlike grandiose narcissists, who are often sexually unfaithful, covert narcissists can be sexually faithful for fear of their reputation being damaged, or out of sheer laziness or shyness, not out of an emotional commitment to their partner. This can be confusing to the neurotypical partner, who sees the faithfulness as a sign of love, making the erroneous assumption that the covert narcissist has emotional empathy, and therefore the capacity to love. They have a Jekyll and Hyde personality, often raging, or finding fault with you, in private as a way of relieving their own inner shame at not being perfect. This is another trait that coverts share with grandiose narcissists. It feels like you have a partner who’s really a teenager, and that it’s your duty to shoulder the “steadiness” they need in the face of their criticisms and anger. The covert narcissist has absolutely no sense of humor about this behavior, meaning there’s an unnecessary “heaviness” in the relationship that leaves you walking on eggshells. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when him or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator Metaspyhub@gmail. com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
I’ve gone so far to believe that I’m the narc. Convinced almost : and I’ve decided to let the river drag me until I snap or die. Radical acceptance: taking mental health breaks. Saying no when I feel courageous. Trying to not give a fuck. Just basically not having faith for the good and always embraced for bullshit.
You can tell from their face how disgusted they are at having to be nice and empathetic to someone in order to APPEAR kind and caring in front of others. Bc when no one's around, well, forget any form of support. It was all fake and they feel grudgeful for even having to fake it.
Never ever doubt your beautiful soul Dr Ramani. I so hope someone is there for you, in the same way you are supporting the nation. You are holding my hand and leading me out of my narcissistic abuse. You are saving me and keeping me sane each day. Xx
My significant other is always touting how empathetic she is literally saying she is an empath all the time and that’s why we dont get along? I put myself in therapy in January to help deal with the abusiveness. Now she is walking around the house saying she healed herself from my abusiveness towards her lol. It’s so interesting to see her shape shift through life to uphold a certain image of herself. I sit back quietly trying not to rock the boat until I see dry land and then 💨
Empathy is a weapon for personal gain to a narcissist, not a trait to work on. They are helpful and supportive when it's convenient and beneficial for them. It's like asking can narcissists be good people. The narcissists I met fervently champion social justice for marginalized, underrepresented groups. Some would cry over news about Syria and Ukraine being bombed. But they had no compassion towards those close to them and viciously attack and smear anyone who disagreed with them. I saw this all unfold both online and in person. Virtue signalers are the worst.
Not me realising that this is why they would always accuse me of weaponising anything they shared with me that made them appear vulnerable - bc this is EXACTLY what they do!
I feel like I almost got through to my ex with an example I gave him. I told him “I’ve seen you stop to a stranger on the street who happens to be crying and say, ‘Hey sweetie, what’s wrong?’, yet when I’m crying, you tell me to stop.” He said, “Yeah, I have done that…” but stopped the conversation there. No apology and no signs of change. Breaking up was the right thing to do with him!
THIS. Thank you so much. I have been trying to untangle myself emotionally from a situation for several years now. The only communications that seem to make it through to me seem crafted to illicit a reaction from me, then i sound nuts for having the reaction...i keep finding myself in those moments saying "its like they weaponized the relationship we had," but this is a more accurate representation of that sentiment.
Just experienced this at the memorial day gathering. The baiting that is being used may take the form of "referential shift or contextual drift" . Does it sound like they are speaking in code? They really give themselves away.
Thank you for your courage to talk about things like this! This describes someone close to me that has confounded me for decades..and affected my own self-esteem. I've seen the kudos and even "fame" this person has gotten. Wondered if I should be doing more for my neighbors, etc...while I see opposite behaviors at other times. It's made me crazy. I've also had to learn the hard way to keep boundaries about help I'll accept from this person. Thank you for explaining this concept so well!
So I've built myself up in front of him because he puts me down so much. I was secure and happy, yet lonely, before him. Peace is better than sometimes feeling loved depending on his mood.
The lack of empathy tells us alot about a person as well. When one of the Nex's best friends wife was gravely ill, he said he sounds distraught. He didn't reach out to him the way I would have. If theres no connection, there will never be any empathy expressed other than with a few false words.
All my struggles trying to figure out if I'm the narcissist or my partner is, or both, doubting and questioning myself... Your description of love and respect, that's what I do - protect others' vulnerabilities. 💜
I had a feeling that my ex had enough empathy as long as he was praised for it, being celebrated as a good person and thanked to for being so understanding and such a great listener, always ready to help. Once something went wrong, he didn't feel enough appreciation or praise from the person, suddenly he didn't care. He could say all the mean things in the world but that was excusable because of his communication issues, bad childhood, past traumas etc, however if anyone else said something remotely mean, upsetting or he just interpreted it that way, it be brought up regularly and never be forgotten. It only mattered how it made him feel.
Oh my gosh it is so nice to hear Dr. Ramani use the same term I'd come up with for my mother: "performative empathy." She does stuff like that so often to the point I wonder if the people she is "helping" might feel awkward to tell her to back-off a bit... At family gatherings and events she is always jumping in to tear down, set up, do dishes, organize, etc etc... Even for events that really aren't related to her at all and she is supposed to be a guest... I know it sounds like I'm being overly critical with how little detail I am giving, but the performative empathy section especially is like "yup!"
I can’t believe this was posted yesterday! This message relates so heavily to what i’m going through currently and it all came to a head yesterday. This video is EXACTLY what I needed. Thank you Dr Ramani thank you so so much
You’re not crazy until you become the type of person who when something really nice happens; instead of feeling a sense of joy and happiness…….you feel dread , impending doom, and fear.
This sort of reminds me of how my ex repeatedly said he’s not afraid to admit when he’s wrong and then accused me of never being able to do likewise. I believed it for so long until one day I realized in 20 years I had never heard him admit that he was wrong once and he never apologized once unless it was the world’s most insincere and pointless apology. I’m so glad I don’t have to listen to him talk himself up ever again 🤮
This is SO true! Performative empathy is a great way to describe it. They are good actors when they have an audience but have zero true heartfelt compassion for anyone. I’ve seen it over and over throughout my life-in family relationships, in my past marriage, romantic relationships, in a horrible work situation with a grandiose narcissistic boss, and even a few friendships. It’s so extremely toxic and too prevalent in society!! Thank you for another on-target video shedding light where it’s sorely needed Dr Ramani. 💜🙏
I have become quite cautious of people when they have said or claim to be empathic. I think it is very much a characteristic that is really dependent on the experiences and judgements of other people who have had to deal with that individual person, than for that person to assess and judge themselves.
'Just cuz they say something, doesn't mean it's true'! Loved this compilation so much! It's chock full of helpful insights, empowering us to identify & navigate through these highly challenging people. One family member in my life who is highly grandiose goes around telling people how nice, generous, helpful, empathic & also how misunderstood they are... It's is so mind warping to see their perspective of themselves. It also was sobering to think of how we all potentially can delude ourselves, if we cease to stay self aware, & make honest self evaluations. Thanks again Dr Ramani!
I always thought I was living with a real life Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I never knew which one it was going to be at any given time. I couldn't keep up the change. 😮
A good example of the apologies from my covert narcissist father: I still remember (from 30 years ago), being terrified for my LIFE, cowering in my room with the door locked while he screamed and screamed and banged on the door and the doorframe, calling me every horrible thing under the sun… then, paralyzed, still cowering in my room for idk how long… eventually I would hear a gentle knock on the door. It was him again. He would say something like “I’m sorry I got so angry” but possibly throwing in why it was my fault… and telling me how he loved me… (this happened regularly, often in the car too) I was completely traumatized. A half-baked apology can’t repair traumatizing someone. He had NEVER understood or taken accountability and he never got better. When us kids grew up, my mom was only one he could target and she finally divorced him… When I got old enough I logically (and correctly IMO) realized that someone cannot really love me if one moment they are telling me I’m garbage, and then the next, saying sorry and they loved me. That is NOT a real apology and it’s not real love. Eventually the grandiose/delusional side of them will convince them that they never even did anything wrong and they will forget all about their abuse…
I have a family member that maintains that they are emotionally supportive and available and compassion and kind. Even when her behavior suggests that she has actively chosen boundaries where she will not show up in an emotionally supportive way, she acted completely shocked at the suggestion. I believed she was aware of the way it came across and that it was totally intentional. Any feedback outside of that compassionate and safe image, she DARVOs immediately. Her wording is very slick, very believable, a 28yo narc vs a 56yo one have significantly different levels of manipulation skills. I couldn't imagine trying to deal with a narc that has been honing in on their craft for 5+ decades.😵💫
My husband and I had a son who got a bacterial infection and was in the NICU for 2 weeks until we were forced to unhook him from his ventilator. I asked my husband to hold our son as he was slipping away and he’s held that over my head ever since.
Such a an informative video about empathy. I've been wondering for last 2 years who is my partner of 4 years. Among other traits he's having empathy but it's so selective, cognitive, cold, calculating empathy if I can say that. Many many times I was tginkin: "no, he's not narc, he's having empathy". Roller-coaster of my own feeling, thoughts and assumptions. No! He does not have empathy. He just acts to keep his mask on!! Thank you doctor. I love you and all this community ❤
I'm kind of delighted whenever my narcissist calls, because I know I'm about get a good laugh, either with her or at her. This is a woman who did nothing to help when her parents during the years they were dying, showed up only to take as much stuff as she could when they passed and is only joins the conversation to talk about the inheritance. Of course if you ask her about this, she says materialism is a lower animal thing and she's deeply loving and caring of everyone else. When you give her enough validation, that's when she admits she's excitedly waiting for the aliens to pick her up because she's one of the special chosen people because she's one of the best humanity has to offer. Not joking, I've written toastmasters speeches about her.
@@anonymissed3611 Yes we're all quite excited for it, hope she sends us a postcard when it happens. Though I really don't wanna lean too much into the delusion, cause I'm either promoting mental illness or a totally ignorant chimp.
I burst out laughing a few times. Felt good. I endured this covert Narc for so many years listening to his “women take advantage of me cuz I’m a nice guy” routine while taking huge advantage of me…. It now sounds like a joke that I wasn’t getting. Now I do and can laugh at the memory of his “poor me” to draw attention to himself. He was a selfish man promoting his kindness and niceness while taking every advantage of me, his family and anyone who would listen.
We have these neighbors we welcomed with open arms when they first moved in. Slowly we realized they were both communal narcissists. One time we were playing a board game with them including our kid and his daughter, both in middle school. His wife was way behind the rest of us and she declared, “Why am I losing. I’m the nicest person at this table!” We were all a little dumbstruck, but I found it very enlightening. There have been several other things since, but I am not very friendly to them anymore to preserve my sanity.
This is really helpful. My struggles have been with 2 specific ex friends that are narcissists. When you talk about how they are sometimes empathic and other times totally cold, where I would just feel connected one day and completely disconnected the next was so odd, but this makes sense. Because when I discovered there was something not right and had the education about narcissism, I distanced myself and then they used everything I confided and shared with them against me.
I'm learning so much while divorcing my narcissistic husband. All the traits you described apply to him. Ultimately, this is helping me to not take his behavior personally.
I could tell he chose to turn off his empathy because he felt my pain/suffering/sorrow was caused from his abuse. So he turned it off to not feel shame and pain and instead of empathy, concern and change he blamed. Which shocked and hurt me more. So instead of empathy you get cruelty and blame because to feel the pain they caused is too much to bare. They lack the capacity to feel empathy consistently because it breaks down their illusion of their false self. If they aren’ t the problem or cause for your pain and sorrow they have plenty of empathy and trust me that makes things even more confusing and unsettling.
It’s so sad how we all have similar experiences of this abuse. 6 years down the drain I wish I knew the information I know now. It would’ve saved me so much heartbreak. I pray we all find peace and never go thru this again 🙏🏾
I can usually only make it through so much of Dr. Ramani's videos. They are educational, but painful. I guess im still grieving the estrangement from my family due my moms boyfriend and her codependency on him. Her videos keep reminding me that what i did was necessary and that makes it even more painful and sad. Don't get me wrong, I am not the greatest ray of sunshine either with multiple mental health problems as well, but I have been through years and years of therapy. The truth hurts.
My Narc husband also do it when being seen. He is a minister in the church. We had the huge explosion of a gas truck in Boksburg and he could not care about all the stuff that happened and was going on around us of family and friends that was hurt, but when the service for people who died and the cameras were there,he put on his costume and went to the service,just to be seen!😢
I had a really hard time (cognitive dissonance maybe) with a Narc friend in and out of my life because he was always so concerned for the world and the downtrodden and always spoke of wanting peace and kindness in the world at large. But one on one with people close to him? He could be cold, dismissive and downright cruel... but there was always some excuse for it. It was hard to reconcile in my mind the same person who was out to save the world would shrug off a friend or lover like he couldn't be bothered if the people most intimate with him were in pain or need. Later, when I thought back on it, a lot of times when he was distraught over come injustice in the world- it would require a lot of care-taking of HIM. Like he would call me crying about how upset he was that there were so many homeless in his area, and I started telling him of programs I knew that helped the homeless- He didn't really want to hear about that or contribute to them... He really just wanted me to know how upset HE was about the situation. He actually said "Do you know what this DOES to ME!!" It was pretty exhausting babysitting his angst at times. But again, for a long time, I viewed him as this kind soul who cared so much about others... And then couldn't understand how this kind soul who cared so much about others made me feel like $hit about myself more times than not.
Had a friend exactly like that! When I sent them resources on how to get involved with the causes and charities regarding things they were so worked up about, and also reminding them to take care of their mental health (much of this was during 2020, when EVERYONE was going thru it), they said "How could you say that to me right now? That really hurt..." and then I felt bad for hurting their feelings. Not anymore. I was compassionate and practical and provided resources for them to be involved with causes THEY claimed to be passionate about. To my knowledge they never tried helping ANYONE.
No one has to tell you they are empathic. They will be in tune with your needs….anticipate and act on those. You will feel a persons empathy just as acutely as you feel a persons apathy.
My DIL is my narcissist. She spewed a barrage of nasty threatening texts to me while I was caring for my mother during her final days of late stage cancer. She knew this..She’s a NICU nurse… yikes. You e taught me so much about how to deal with her Dr Ramani. You’ve saved me so much heartache and I thank you so much.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that. My parent is the narcissist so I can't imagine what it feels like to have your child married to one. I feel for you ♥
one of the worst is the religious hypocrite. acts like an angel in church, prays, novenas, but absolutely CANNOT show gentleness and kindness behind close doors. ugh!
what a Narcissist looks for in a partner /victim empathy loyalty people pleaser conscience integrity generous honest weak boundaries avoids conflict Easily forgiving Very open about your life Giving Happy go lucky Willing to see the relationship to the end no matter what Can be easily controlled Selfless
Your work has really helped me greatly. I'd like to add to the early stages of love bombing is that it took a good year and a half to realize that I fell hard for an ILLUSION of a woman who did not exist. Absolutely masterful at deception, Machavelian in fact. I never knew hurt so bad before and I have known hurt. Could not figure out how a human being could behave this way. So thanks for what you do.
My narc gives food and water to the homeless, saves turtles, feeds stray cats, and sucks up to every stranger he can while in public. While abusing his cat, abusing my own cat in the past, and like clockwork, causes horrible fights with me that often get physical about every 3 days like clockwork. It always gets blamed on me. Everything good about me gets reflected as if it’s somehow part of him. Everything bad he describes about me is overwhelmed, exaggerated, or else a reflection of something HE actually did. 😢 I don’t even feel like a person anymore. I have nothing to show for it but pain and suffering and debt and a pissload of broken promises from him. I’ll never trust another man as long as I live 😭💔
24:00 in certain circles, empathy for "categories" (people in xyz conditions, animals) is highly valued, and if you show empathy for the bird in the small cage right in front of you, you're considered not smart, even stupid.
You are honestly 100% correct about ALL topics pertaining any narcissistic person. I’m thankful to learn words that describe their manipulations etc. Your teaching is so valuable!
Thank you for sharing your recent story on the fake empathy. I have learned sooooo much from all of your videos. I've experienced 3 narcissists in my life, all women. 2 ex friends and my mother in law. Your videos have helped me heal. Each one of those women all knew my vulnerabilities and used them against me once I stood up for myself. My mother in law is an abusive woman who is alone because of her behaviors. More of a covert narcissist. But the 2 ex friends are grandiose seeming to be "happy" with a bunch of friends. The second most recent narcissistic friendship ended fairly quickly because I saw so many similarities as the first one. I had been educated so I knew more, but still too late because I had opened up to her about some things she weaponized against me later on.
All over our community social media site last year were the pseudo empathy types that came out of the woodwork. People posted that were upset losing their power and food that would go bad they spent good money on, also dealing with a hot house without running a/c running which they posted about. Then these same ppl got attacked because others would say "think about the ppl that were impacted by a direct hit from hurricane Ian!" I never knew there was a name for these tactics
I think it is definitely an effort for narcissists to engage in empathy regarding someone they have a relationship with. *Especially* when they have split and cannot regard that person as anything but negative & adversarial. They know that after so long, if anyone who has a relationship with them gets their perspective adequately heard and understood by the narcissist, the narcissist might be asked to be accountable for their hurtful behavios and are terrified of feeling shame. Lack of empathy for those they are closer with is a part of their shame shield process. With strangers and the public, the performative empathy is an aspect of the "path of least resistance" in their minds. I agree, this empathy is a way to manipulate the majority and have a sort of social protection from consequences of their behaviors within their immediate circle. Maintaining a certain public image allows them to continue the cycle with new supply; if their community accepted how destructive they can be, they couldn't get fresh supply locally.
I've just filed for divorce from my narc husband and there are times that I question if he did really have these empathic qualities. But listening to this video helped me so much today. His empathy, that theatrical performance empathy, became more and more superficial as the marriage progressed. He had only a short menu of empathy options he would choose from. It's like you said, it's not deep, it's not consistent and it sure isn't an appropriate feeling. So I thank you Dr. Ramani for helping to make this next step of getting free from the trauma a little easier. 😘
I had one who was cold, noncommunicative, and harsh to family and close friends. He would mock and ridicule and show how he knew more or had done better than them. Then he would organize an event and do all the work to raise money for childhood cancer. It was very confusing and made you feel guilty for even wondering about his motives.
I've seen people announce LOUDLY about how they are helping an elderly person to church for a holiday (the most packed day at church), very exaggeratedly helping them walk and get into someone else's car (who is actually tasked with transporting them). The same people who, when asked to take turns taking this person to church on a regular basis, replied, "If it is important to YOU, you should do it."
Interesting, though, they have TONS of empathy for themselves and a list of excuses to back them up. One can't help but wonder if the empathy they might show to others is self-motivated. This is why I can't help but believe that such a person is dangerous to be around.
The only thing I never thought or experienced, that you, Dr Ramani, talk about is: Thinking it was me. Or thinking I wasn't giving them enough of a break I never thought that. And I'm amazed, saddened, to think that, on top of the abuse being laid on (whoever), someone, that they're questioning themselves (🥺), awful. But also, the enablers, wet f?!! And the ones who literally don't see it(?)!! Oh my god
When I realized my ex had cheated on me, I was devastated. But I could tell he felt nothing. He even said "I don't know why this isn't affecting me." He must have realized that his reaction wasn't normal.
Dr Ramani, I can't thank you enough. Listening to these videos has helped my healing and moving forward so much smoother with the understanding of the situation I was in. This video in particular has allowed me to realise that there was no intentional love or care for me, and that is what the hardest thing was for me to understand. This empathy you talk of within narcissists my ex boyfriend was perfect with it. The realisation I had one day of how he could verbally abuse me the way he did but then be so nice other times. That is and what has been playing havoc on my mind. I'm really struggling trusting people and the kind words that are coming out of their mouths. I'm actually still thinking I'm the unstable one and not sure how I go back to the way I was. I was involved with him for 3 years.... I feel blessed it was only 3 years because this is a very surreal situation because it has messed with my head so much. Just thank you. Thank you so much.
I've never understood how narcissistic people are so effective at mimicking positive traits. Why do we not detect it's a lie? Do some people see the falseness and others don't? Please explain this if possible. 🙏
My ex organized a big birthday party for me but when I asked to have, for example a strawberry cake because it's my favorite, he got very angry with me, telling me that he was in charge of my party. Needless to say, he made sure that everybody at the party knew about all the things he had done 'for me' and enjoyed the praises from my friends. Nothing on that day was about me. But he had very well anticipated what my girl friends would recognize and admire him for.
This video reminds me of another where you said Narcissistic Personally Disorder shouldn’t be a diagnosis. If they have empathy but deliberately ignore it, that is not a mental illness, that is a moral character flaw.
You are SO good Dr Ramini! You really know this subject inside and out! I smiled a lot during this video as I vividly recognised the traits in the 3 narcissists I know. It's so good to have these traits verbalised - spot on! 🙂
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I always noticed they appeared to have empathy until someone close to them got sick and it was like a light bulb turned off and the emotions left with them like they can't be bothered.
Wow, you've definitely known one!
They can only be bothered if they have an audience!!
Yes, it's like they don't want you to be sick or hurt cause it takes away the attention from them.
@@kimberlychristine9284 That's sounds exactly how I seen it also and found it odd behavior especially when they claimed to love that person.
This is very true, I'm going through it. The unsolicited advise, lack of understanding or patience or listening or empathy kindness and caring set the light bulb off. Even down to them plucking out lies about how I'd been when they were ill when I was a teenager. Plus their demands on my time and STILL wanting what they want it's proven to me that their faux empathy is a pack of lies. They don't want to know or hear how you feel unless it benefits them or makes them look good. I think they only do the faux empathy because when the chips are down they're fearful people so they do it to keep people around them rather than genuine love. When all fails they go for the guilt trips
My ex psycho would cry watching a documentary about the holocaust for example but had no empathy for me or the people closest to her. When my father and my dogs died she was very cold and couldn't understand why and would get mad at me, because I was sad and grieving.
Neglect is the narcissist's secret weapon.
Perfect analogy, when my husband's dad died it was all in. My heart ached for him.when my father died it was crickets. I dealt alone.when our pets were ill I had to deal with it he would ignore them drove me crazy sick to my stomach for months.and he's the one that brings the animals home but won't care for them.
One of my ex said she can't cry, she had to watch a sad movie in order to cry...
Didn't figured out yet? Narcissists CANNOT feel empathy for anyone whenever they are part of the context!!! It becomes about them!!! However they are not emotionless. They show humanity whenever they are not part of the equation. That's how it is!
he probably knew that the 11th word u used was the biggest con in history
@@JAYNEmM1962same!
Narcissists with a savior complex. My parents are both like this. They treat their family like crap, but treat strangers like gold. They love the attention from being such a great community helper. There's no attention from being a good person behind closed doors towards their family.
They are the worst kind
You just described my mom lol
This is my mother and my boss. I see through the BS. 😢
This, everyone else was treated kind, yet I would be screamed at for calling to say I love you.
Sickness is all there is to it.
my mom
I never knew or believed that "dead eyes" was a real thing, until the moment I saw his. The lack of empathy while you're broken and exhausted, or frantic or physically sick with anxiety in front of them and they stare like you're not even there.
I have witnessed my narcissist husband turn on the empathy switch to strangers sooooo many times. Just a simple example, when he was love bombing me when we courted, he said many times that he wanted children. The three times I got pregnant, the three times, he dumbfoundly reacted negativaly,:" Oh! No!", was his reaction and made me feel so guilty for being so happy, well, I reacted by pretty well caring, raising doing everything myself so to minimize bothering my hysband with our children. He never played, read books, disciplined, etc...But, when he would see a woman pushing a stroller with a young child, he would bend down with his fake smile, and say "Allô toi🎵🎶🎼🎵🎶! and baby talk with the child! To this day, when I see this behavior, just makes me nauseous ! So, to think THEY do have empathy, but choose not to use it, is sickening.
Oh my gosh, yes! Neglecting their own children but cooing over every baby in public, or going out of their way to spend time with OTHER people's kids!
Hope you get out from that situation soon 😊
Yes, my mother was Miss Congeniality with other people's children.
@@thanksagainforthetea
Exactly! And what a surprise that it's "thanksagainforthetea", my new friend. Apparently we would do well at co-authoring a book. :)
I am so sorry. Hope you’re okay.
The narcissist does pretty much everything for show. They’re concerned only on appearances. I’ve seen my narcissistic father show kindness in public, however, I’ve seen his rage. Heaven forbid if the waiter doesn’t bring us cocktail on time. Behind close doors, my father called me “fat and ugly”, and while in public, if someone commented how pretty his daughter was, he had no problem accepting the compliment. It truly is all about image and impressions.
Ya know, the fact narcissists have ‘fully developed’ empathy (this is how I think of it ) but decide when and how to use it almost seems worst to me because they know what they are doing and it’s deliberate
Yess! You know, they always sucker us, and when they come back around and finally do all the things we wanted them to do.
But I once had someone advise me to never fall for that ,
because they’re just showing that they knew exactly what to do the whole time to make us happy, and they chose not to , until they lost us !!!! 💯💯💯 ever since I heard it said that way I see it totally differently!
I think they’re faking it because it gets attention. A mere transaction.
To me it's *way worse* than not having it all!
I like to call it. Manipulative empathy. They use it when they are trying to manipulate the situation or someone's attention, etc
Empathy means acting with conscience thought and feeling that persons pain. So IMHO they don't have very much empathy at all and they only act with conscience thought when they KNOW they have to show empathy or give themselves away.
I’ve worked in humanitarian circles almost my entire career. I have also been in graduate school in the humanities. So believe me when I say this; behind almost every social justice warrior is a covert narcissist. Thanks for giving me the language for it. They care deeply about large global or community issues and have all the key phrases and taglines. But in one on one encounters? They don’t care at all. Took me a while to catch on.
Yeeeep. The most toxic workplace I ever worked in was a nonprofit organization. It was FULL of narcissists. I experienced the same thing when volunteering at different organizations. 100% of them were completely covert.
Yes you’re right. I have family who are in this field. 100% agree.
YES! That is my dad. I always thought he was a good guy..helping those in need. I now realize he was just helping himself feel better about his lack of a job/ a career/ commitments .... He wants to play tennis ( but not pay child support). Thanks for this. He also is a political advocate- for the left. I'm liberal, and yes ( I learned a lot from him) but I can see his lack of empathy. Thanks Dr. Ramani too.
That could be police officers too and their wives who support them who say they are doing something really good for the public and contributing to society when in actuality they're destroying lives and they are taking a lot of money away from society that could be used for other things
I think the same thing could be said for teachers who claim they're doing so much for society or police officers who claim they're helping society so much when they are getting a lot of money from the tax payer and criminalizing people and destroying a lot of lives ..no one is going to tell me that the police and teachers do not have a lot of people with sadistic personality disorders.
I could never understand my husband not caring when I'm upset, yet cried when all the fires happened near our home and he cried for all the burnt trees, absolutely ridiculous and confusing.
He didn’t care about the trees. Just pretending that he has empathy. Just an act
They can recognize how you feel. They just don't care, or even enjoy your pain and unsteadiness.
exactly
Thank you for saying: I needed the money, but I needed the selfrespect more. I'm in the middle of a divorce with a narcissist. This helpt me so much to accept the unfairness of it all. Thank you.
I could not wait to get out. Ended up with almost nothing except my children. They are all I wanted.
My mum made the same decision. Guess who's doing better now 😉
When I asked a guy I was getting to know about what came across to me as an inappropriate or judgemental comment he made about my past trauma that I had confided in him, he said he was ‘expressing empathy’, which made no sense. I didn’t get a feeling of empathy at all from his comment, rather it felt like a dig meant to make me feel smaller. It was a weird response from him. So I slowly backed away from him, kept my boundaries to see what he’d do. And sure enough he started going cold and distant when I didn’t do what he wanted, and suddenly out of the blue he had a girlfriend he ‘wasn’t sure about’. So let him go. Proud of myself for standing up for myself and grateful for all I’ve learnt to see it and walk away as needed. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
❤I’m tired of giving a narcissist an empty space in my head being rented out for free in my own head , it’s exhausting ❤😢
I hear you Kirsty.
Exhausting and Repetitive seem to be the words of the month amongst support groups.
My mom has been in my head since Christmas time. It is totally mind boggling
@@nickieglazer33 I here ya
@@DebbieLee-dr3hr everyday it’s a struggle:(
You should write ! Your expression is awesome!.when you said rent out for free....❤
I told my boyfriend I never knew how hurtful life could be with a narcissist until I met him. Then I left and never went back.
Empathy is the narcissist’s prime narcissistic supply for their very existence
They’re predators for empaths
Indeed 😔
Depending what u call
It is heartbreaking when the empath realizes that they were blamed by the narcissist or antagonist person for being their enabler. When enough is enough and you have to get away from the predator. Can an empath also be an enabler?
@@KatieWynn97 ABSOLUTELY YES ! the narcissist wants their empath targets to be FLYING MONKEYS (enablers )
@@KatieWynn97 Most certainly, empaths enable narcissists. It’s what makes us their ‘drug of choice’. We have to have as little contact with toxic people as possible. You get really good at discerning the authentic people in your life when you finally put your foot down to narcissism. That meant I had to let go of a lot of my own people pleasing, self erasing & debasing beliefs, codepency, etc… still letting go of a lot & feel as though I cut out all my friends wondering if I’m the sicko… but realized I was repeating all the old family relationship dynamics with all my friends. (many, anyway) I kept setting myself up to get chumped by people. Just best to be on my own for a little while until I can choose more wisely…
When her daughter accidentally knocked the plant to the floor, he sat in his chair and laughed out loud at both the loss, and efforts to fix and save the plant. Seeing another person experience loss or dissappointment seemed like fun for him to see.
He didnt help to get it back together of course. In the front yard, he watches his partner work hard. Suddenly he approaches and caringly offers to take over the shovelling or digging. It seems caring, but, it is the person who is walking by the house who he aims to impress with his generous kindness to help out.
It's hard to have empathy for a narcissist. I used to say when he would get upset about something trivial after intentionally gas lighting and upsetting me I would rub my two fingers together and say this is me playing the world's smallest violin just for you. The payback was watching him beat himself while out in the yard after stumbling on a yellow jacket nest.
Wow, Margaret H! Were we married to the same guy?
💯💯
That’s why you have to be nice to the narcissist in public the way they are to you. 😂 l😅 😮😢 beavsue you are the narcissist now
@@angelakh4147 Possibly :) If you said you wanted to buy soil for your garden, and he replied smirking meanly - No! Go and make the dirt! then it could be the same one. True story. However it only shows the mindset of terribly mean stingy thinking on the part of that person and doesn’t reflect on anyone else. 💕
OMG! Performative empathy! Thank you! That fully describes my 25 year experience with a "best friend" who just discarded me a day after my father's funeral, because, the same day as the funeral, her daughter got engaged, and I wasn't all over FB praising her. I was grieving!!!
Good riddance, but be sure to grieve. It helps fully release the poison. I had a similar experience. I know it hurts
Thank you Dr. Ramani, I was always confused by the niceness followed by the bad treatment after, and the gaslighting, leaving me thinking I was crazy . I would be left wondering what I had done, this has gone on for years. Thanks to Dr. Ramani it is becoming clear what and who is the problem and I am working on emotionally separating myself from this person.
Omg. This one hit home for me. To be with someone who could watch me cry uncontrollably and move around their day without any acknowledgment was what I experienced. And had so much for others and just like you said, strangers or those he didn’t take too much of his time. Ugh
Mine is the same way, but if he watches a sad movie he is capable of crying for the characters
They apologize. And when you haven't quite figured out who they are or what you're dealing with, you say, "It's okay. I forgive you." Then they suddenly turn into an entirely different person and continue to attack and abuse you. It's devastating to realize that their empathy is reserved for "special occasions," like when they find it convenient, to receive accolades from others, to manipulate and control you, and maintain their image.
Once you forgive them, they continue to abuse because they think that means it's OK to treat them that way.
To me, “ empathy” requires both components: 1) intellectual awareness of what the other person is feeling or how they would react; but also 2) caring about what the other person is or would be feeling. I don’t consider someone without compassion to have “empathy”. Semantics I suppose, but ultimately, someone who weaponizes their knowledge of others’ vulnerability is not a good person, even dangerous, and must ideally be avoided. “Transactional”, “performative”, and “cognitive “ empathy seem to me to be the more precise and useful terms.
This makes so much sense. My husband can be so cold and uncaring with me, and yet be so kind to others. One time I told him I wished he could JUST treat me like he treats his workmates or strangers!!! Thank you. Now I know why!!!
I used to have the same thought…. I wish I could get that smile, that tone, that kind of interest….
That life was sad and sucked.
@--The_Doctor_Ramani I'm not sure how this works. I've never left a message before. Your videos have made me realize what I've been enduring for almost 50 years of marriage. I feel broken, but trying to get help to pull myself out of this depression. My mother committed suicide when I was 9. It's been a difficult life, but I truly want it to get better. At least now I know what I've been faced with for so many years. Your videos have brought it all to light!!! Thank you so much!
I also have this experience
This! ⬆️
🙋
Spot on! He turns it on sometimes with others, but has zero with me.
I ADORE how Dr. Ramani does NOT let narcissists get away with it. She never shows them empathy, because they're NOT THE VICTIMS. She understands that the victims need the empathy. And to reverse that, would be gaslighting, and would further traumatize the real victims.
I asked my ex narcissistic partner why he couldn't show comfort/compassion to me when I was upset. He actually said he "didn't have it in him", and that he can't deal with crying because it reminds him of his own feelings. I thought that was quite insightful for a narcissist!
So I ended it after this conversation but he tried to get back with me. This time, his empathy was used manipulatively. As I was talking about my frustrations with another person, he did hug me but at the same time, started trying to kiss me etc. Then when I pulled away, I was "cold"!
My abuser was always upset that I expressed frustration with my narcissistic brother. He defended him constantly and now I know why🤷🏾♀️
Thank you Dr Ramani! I have experienced this type of person. Someone who is a selective savior.
Oh my Goodness, “performative Empathy” is perfect way to describe what my ex so often displayed. As my kids went to school, he volunteered to become the class parents representative, then let me do all the actual work. He was so nice to me, to my kids and to everybody at events and gatherings where he had audience. Later, such events were absolutely the only moments I saw him behave more or less nicely. I used to dread the moment when we got into the car and the good mood was turned off. Just like when the light suddenly goes out and you feel the chill. Or if the good mood keeps going you are forced to have sex. I am out of that hell.
They have only cognitive empathy. This means they are fastidious about doing and saying things that indicate they have concern for you. Unlike many grandiose narcissists, a covert narcissist has a cognitive understanding of how people behave when they have concern for others. But when the chips are down in your life, such as you are the victim of a crime, you are very sick, or you lose your job, the covert narcissist is chilly, abandoning, and just “doesn’t get it.” They may blame you for your misfortune. The covert narcissist can’t summon any of the normal ways of caring in these moments. In these ways, they reveal themselves to have no emotional empathy. Depending on how long it takes for you to experience such incidents, you could go for years not realizing that your partner is a narcissist. They may literally turn their back on you, over seemingly trivial matters. This is a trait they share with grandiose narcissists. Maybe they get annoyed that you’re walking too slow and leave you alone while they rush ahead, or they get impatient with what you’re saying and turn around while you’re in mid-sentence, or maybe you’re a little late for a social function that you’re attending as a couple, only to find them already inside as if they weren’t at the event with you. They probably appear charming and competent to those who don’t live with them. A covert narcissist’s constant striving for perfection often results in a set of traits that most of us (who are not obsessed with perfection) admire, as long as we don’t get too close to the narcissist. This makes explaining the upside-down hall of mirrors that is your shared intimate space with the covert narcissist impossible to explain to those outside the relationship, who will assume you are either exaggerating, or that your relationship skills are lacking. The covert narcissist may be a pillar of the community, or has lofty, well thought-out ideals. The striving for perfection of a covert narcissist often results in associating themselves with highly regarded intellectuals, businesspeople, or other such pillars of the community, such that the covert narcissist appears to be a pillar of the community themselves. Additionally, covert narcissists can identify with a vision of societal utopia, and become a zealot about their particular ideals, whether liberal or conservative. The covert narcissist is surprisingly lazy. Despite their lofty ideals or connections, the covert narcissist often does little to no work to actually earn the respect of people in the community through their actions. Their ideals or connections are a facade they choose instead of real effort and commitment. They can be sexually faithful. Unlike grandiose narcissists, who are often sexually unfaithful, covert narcissists can be sexually faithful for fear of their reputation being damaged, or out of sheer laziness or shyness, not out of an emotional commitment to their partner. This can be confusing to the neurotypical partner, who sees the faithfulness as a sign of love, making the erroneous assumption that the covert narcissist has emotional empathy, and therefore the capacity to love. They have a Jekyll and Hyde personality, often raging, or finding fault with you, in private as a way of relieving their own inner shame at not being perfect. This is another trait that coverts share with grandiose narcissists. It feels like you have a partner who’s really a teenager, and that it’s your duty to shoulder the “steadiness” they need in the face of their criticisms and anger. The covert narcissist has absolutely no sense of humor about this behavior, meaning there’s an unnecessary “heaviness” in the relationship that leaves you walking on eggshells. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when him or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator Metaspyhub@gmail. com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
What is the purpose of spying on their cellphone?
Here you come again
The upside hall of mirrors almost made me cry….. that’s exactly how it feels.
I am to be blamed for my misfortune. And I’m trying hard to make adjustments
I’ve gone so far to believe that I’m the narc. Convinced almost : and I’ve decided to let the river drag me until I snap or die. Radical acceptance: taking mental health breaks. Saying no when I feel courageous. Trying to not give a fuck. Just basically not having faith for the good and always embraced for bullshit.
Dr Ramani changed my life. 🎉😊
You can tell from their face how disgusted they are at having to be nice and empathetic to someone in order to APPEAR kind and caring in front of others. Bc when no one's around, well, forget any form of support. It was all fake and they feel grudgeful for even having to fake it.
Never ever doubt your beautiful soul Dr Ramani. I so hope someone is there for you, in the same way you are supporting the nation. You are holding my hand and leading me out of my narcissistic abuse. You are saving me and keeping me sane each day. Xx
My significant other is always touting how empathetic she is literally saying she is an empath all the time and that’s why we dont get along? I put myself in therapy in January to help deal with the abusiveness. Now she is walking around the house saying she healed herself from my abusiveness towards her lol. It’s so interesting to see her shape shift through life to uphold a certain image of herself. I sit back quietly trying not to rock the boat until I see dry land and then 💨
She is projecting on you what she is doing to you...run from her!
Empathy is a weapon for personal gain to a narcissist, not a trait to work on. They are helpful and supportive when it's convenient and beneficial for them. It's like asking can narcissists be good people. The narcissists I met fervently champion social justice for marginalized, underrepresented groups. Some would cry over news about Syria and Ukraine being bombed. But they had no compassion towards those close to them and viciously attack and smear anyone who disagreed with them. I saw this all unfold both online and in person. Virtue signalers are the worst.
Not me realising that this is why they would always accuse me of weaponising anything they shared with me that made them appear vulnerable - bc this is EXACTLY what they do!
Virtue signaling. Yes.
I feel like I almost got through to my ex with an example I gave him. I told him “I’ve seen you stop to a stranger on the street who happens to be crying and say, ‘Hey sweetie, what’s wrong?’, yet when I’m crying, you tell me to stop.” He said, “Yeah, I have done that…” but stopped the conversation there. No apology and no signs of change. Breaking up was the right thing to do with him!
THIS. Thank you so much. I have been trying to untangle myself emotionally from a situation for several years now. The only communications that seem to make it through to me seem crafted to illicit a reaction from me, then i sound nuts for having the reaction...i keep finding myself in those moments saying "its like they weaponized the relationship we had," but this is a more accurate representation of that sentiment.
Just experienced this at the memorial day gathering. The baiting that is being used may take the form of "referential shift or contextual drift" . Does it sound like they are speaking in code?
They really give themselves away.
Thank you for your courage to talk about things like this! This describes someone close to me that has confounded me for decades..and affected my own self-esteem. I've seen the kudos and even "fame" this person has gotten. Wondered if I should be doing more for my neighbors, etc...while I see opposite behaviors at other times. It's made me crazy. I've also had to learn the hard way to keep boundaries about help I'll accept from this person. Thank you for explaining this concept so well!
So I've built myself up in front of him because he puts me down so much. I was secure and happy, yet lonely, before him. Peace is better than sometimes feeling loved depending on his mood.
The lack of empathy tells us alot about a person as well. When one of the Nex's best friends wife was gravely ill, he said he sounds distraught. He didn't reach out to him the way I would have.
If theres no connection, there will never be any empathy expressed other than with a few false words.
Dr Ramani, I love how your roots are showing, if you ever decide to go all gray/silver I think you would rock it !❤❤ love ya!
All my struggles trying to figure out if I'm the narcissist or my partner is, or both, doubting and questioning myself... Your description of love and respect, that's what I do - protect others' vulnerabilities. 💜
you gave my life back to me Dr. Ramani ty. i got rid of the guilt, and now i sometimes really fully enjoy my life.
I had a feeling that my ex had enough empathy as long as he was praised for it, being celebrated as a good person and thanked to for being so understanding and such a great listener, always ready to help. Once something went wrong, he didn't feel enough appreciation or praise from the person, suddenly he didn't care. He could say all the mean things in the world but that was excusable because of his communication issues, bad childhood, past traumas etc, however if anyone else said something remotely mean, upsetting or he just interpreted it that way, it be brought up regularly and never be forgotten. It only mattered how it made him feel.
Oh my gosh it is so nice to hear Dr. Ramani use the same term I'd come up with for my mother: "performative empathy." She does stuff like that so often to the point I wonder if the people she is "helping" might feel awkward to tell her to back-off a bit... At family gatherings and events she is always jumping in to tear down, set up, do dishes, organize, etc etc... Even for events that really aren't related to her at all and she is supposed to be a guest... I know it sounds like I'm being overly critical with how little detail I am giving, but the performative empathy section especially is like "yup!"
💯
I can’t believe this was posted yesterday! This message relates so heavily to what i’m going through currently and it all came to a head yesterday. This video is EXACTLY what I needed. Thank you Dr Ramani thank you so so much
You’re not crazy until you become the type of person who when something really nice happens; instead of feeling a sense of joy and happiness…….you feel dread , impending doom, and fear.
This sort of reminds me of how my ex repeatedly said he’s not afraid to admit when he’s wrong and then accused me of never being able to do likewise. I believed it for so long until one day I realized in 20 years I had never heard him admit that he was wrong once and he never apologized once unless it was the world’s most insincere and pointless apology. I’m so glad I don’t have to listen to him talk himself up ever again 🤮
True Empathetic people just do, they don’t brag about it or tell people- and follow it with “look what I have done”
I believe that narcissists empathy is performance and weaponized!
This is SO true! Performative empathy is a great way to describe it. They are good actors when they have an audience but have zero true heartfelt compassion for anyone. I’ve seen it over and over throughout my life-in family relationships, in my past marriage, romantic relationships, in a horrible work situation with a grandiose narcissistic boss, and even a few friendships. It’s so extremely toxic and too prevalent in society!! Thank you for another on-target video shedding light where it’s sorely needed Dr Ramani. 💜🙏
This is spot on. The hypocrisy is obvious.
I have been telling my therapist this scenario over and over about my spouse. Thank you for the validation.
100% accurate. You are helping so many. Thank you!
I have become quite cautious of people when they have said or claim to be empathic. I think it is very much a characteristic that is really dependent on the experiences and judgements of other people who have had to deal with that individual person, than for that person to assess and judge themselves.
So true
You’re amazing, please don’t stop sharing with us 🖤🖤🖤
Wow, yes. Absolutely hit the nail on the head with this one.
'Just cuz they say something, doesn't mean it's true'! Loved this compilation so much! It's chock full of helpful insights, empowering us to identify & navigate through these highly challenging people. One family member in my life who is highly grandiose goes around telling people how nice, generous, helpful, empathic & also how misunderstood they are... It's is so mind warping to see their perspective of themselves. It also was sobering to think of how we all potentially can delude ourselves, if we cease to stay self aware, & make honest self evaluations. Thanks again Dr Ramani!
Thank you dr Ramani for explanation. Very helpfull to heal from experience of narcissistic abuse
I always thought I was living with a real life Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I never knew which one it was going to be at any given time. I couldn't keep up the change. 😮
A good example of the apologies from my covert narcissist father: I still remember (from 30 years ago), being terrified for my LIFE, cowering in my room with the door locked while he screamed and screamed and banged on the door and the doorframe, calling me every horrible thing under the sun… then, paralyzed, still cowering in my room for idk how long… eventually I would hear a gentle knock on the door. It was him again. He would say something like “I’m sorry I got so angry” but possibly throwing in why it was my fault… and telling me how he loved me… (this happened regularly, often in the car too)
I was completely traumatized. A half-baked apology can’t repair traumatizing someone. He had NEVER understood or taken accountability and he never got better. When us kids grew up, my mom was only one he could target and she finally divorced him…
When I got old enough I logically (and correctly IMO) realized that someone cannot really love me if one moment they are telling me I’m garbage, and then the next, saying sorry and they loved me. That is NOT a real apology and it’s not real love.
Eventually the grandiose/delusional side of them will convince them that they never even did anything wrong and they will forget all about their abuse…
I have a family member that maintains that they are emotionally supportive and available and compassion and kind. Even when her behavior suggests that she has actively chosen boundaries where she will not show up in an emotionally supportive way, she acted completely shocked at the suggestion. I believed she was aware of the way it came across and that it was totally intentional. Any feedback outside of that compassionate and safe image, she DARVOs immediately. Her wording is very slick, very believable, a 28yo narc vs a 56yo one have significantly different levels of manipulation skills. I couldn't imagine trying to deal with a narc that has been honing in on their craft for 5+ decades.😵💫
My husband and I had a son who got a bacterial infection and was in the NICU for 2 weeks until we were forced to unhook him from his ventilator. I asked my husband to hold our son as he was slipping away and he’s held that over my head ever since.
Such a an informative video about empathy. I've been wondering for last 2 years who is my partner of 4 years. Among other traits he's having empathy but it's so selective, cognitive, cold, calculating empathy if I can say that. Many many times I was tginkin: "no, he's not narc, he's having empathy". Roller-coaster of my own feeling, thoughts and assumptions. No! He does not have empathy. He just acts to keep his mask on!!
Thank you doctor.
I love you and all this community ❤
They strategically use empathy … they know what they are doing…
I'm kind of delighted whenever my narcissist calls, because I know I'm about get a good laugh, either with her or at her. This is a woman who did nothing to help when her parents during the years they were dying, showed up only to take as much stuff as she could when they passed and is only joins the conversation to talk about the inheritance. Of course if you ask her about this, she says materialism is a lower animal thing and she's deeply loving and caring of everyone else. When you give her enough validation, that's when she admits she's excitedly waiting for the aliens to pick her up because she's one of the special chosen people because she's one of the best humanity has to offer. Not joking, I've written toastmasters speeches about her.
Have you suggested aliens taking her away would be awesome?
@@anonymissed3611 Yes we're all quite excited for it, hope she sends us a postcard when it happens. Though I really don't wanna lean too much into the delusion, cause I'm either promoting mental illness or a totally ignorant chimp.
I burst out laughing a few times. Felt good. I endured this covert Narc for so many years listening to his “women take advantage of me cuz I’m a nice guy” routine while taking huge advantage of me…. It now sounds like a joke that I wasn’t getting. Now I do and can laugh at the memory of his “poor me” to draw attention to himself. He was a selfish man promoting his kindness and niceness while taking every advantage of me, his family and anyone who would listen.
So true
We have these neighbors we welcomed with open arms when they first moved in. Slowly we realized they were both communal narcissists. One time we were playing a board game with them including our kid and his daughter, both in middle school. His wife was way behind the rest of us and she declared, “Why am I losing. I’m the nicest person at this table!” We were all a little dumbstruck, but I found it very enlightening. There have been several other things since, but I am not very friendly to them anymore to preserve my sanity.
Don’t let them find out. They may be BPD then oh shite
"He's rescuing all the neighborhood grasshoppers " 🤣🤣🤣🤣 thanks for the laugh
This is really helpful. My struggles have been with 2 specific ex friends that are narcissists. When you talk about how they are sometimes empathic and other times totally cold, where I would just feel connected one day and completely disconnected the next was so odd, but this makes sense. Because when I discovered there was something not right and had the education about narcissism, I distanced myself and then they used everything I confided and shared with them against me.
I'm learning so much while divorcing my narcissistic husband. All the traits you described apply to him. Ultimately, this is helping me to not take his behavior personally.
I could tell he chose to turn off his empathy because he felt my pain/suffering/sorrow was caused from his abuse. So he turned it off to not feel shame and pain and instead of empathy, concern and change he blamed. Which shocked and hurt me more. So instead of empathy you get cruelty and blame because to feel the pain they caused is too much to bare. They lack the capacity to feel empathy consistently because it breaks down their illusion of their false self.
If they aren’ t the problem or cause for your pain and sorrow they have plenty of empathy and trust me that makes things even more confusing and unsettling.
It’s so sad how we all have similar experiences of this abuse. 6 years down the drain I wish I knew the information I know now. It would’ve saved me so much heartbreak. I pray we all find peace and never go thru this again 🙏🏾
Exactly.
@@jaylacochran2177 screw your relationship.
When you said performance of helping an old person, that resonated so much !!! He always likes to act like that in front of an audience
I can usually only make it through so much of Dr. Ramani's videos. They are educational, but painful. I guess im still grieving the estrangement from my family due my moms boyfriend and her codependency on him. Her videos keep reminding me that what i did was necessary and that makes it even more painful and sad. Don't get me wrong, I am not the greatest ray of sunshine either with multiple mental health problems as well, but I have been through years and years of therapy. The truth hurts.
This is what I wonder about my family.
I have watched my family be so kind and caring to others. Then turn around and tell me "oh well, get over it."
My Narc husband also do it when being seen. He is a minister in the church. We had the huge explosion of a gas truck in Boksburg and he could not care about all the stuff that happened and was going on around us of family and friends that was hurt, but when the service for people who died and the cameras were there,he put on his costume and went to the service,just to be seen!😢
I had a really hard time (cognitive dissonance maybe) with a Narc friend in and out of my life because he was always so concerned for the world and the downtrodden and always spoke of wanting peace and kindness in the world at large. But one on one with people close to him? He could be cold, dismissive and downright cruel... but there was always some excuse for it. It was hard to reconcile in my mind the same person who was out to save the world would shrug off a friend or lover like he couldn't be bothered if the people most intimate with him were in pain or need.
Later, when I thought back on it, a lot of times when he was distraught over come injustice in the world- it would require a lot of care-taking of HIM. Like he would call me crying about how upset he was that there were so many homeless in his area, and I started telling him of programs I knew that helped the homeless- He didn't really want to hear about that or contribute to them... He really just wanted me to know how upset HE was about the situation. He actually said "Do you know what this DOES to ME!!" It was pretty exhausting babysitting his angst at times.
But again, for a long time, I viewed him as this kind soul who cared so much about others... And then couldn't understand how this kind soul who cared so much about others made me feel like $hit about myself more times than not.
Yes, my ex too. But, he never did anything for all those people he was concerned about. And, Raged at me regularly. Very damaged Souls.
Had a friend exactly like that! When I sent them resources on how to get involved with the causes and charities regarding things they were so worked up about, and also reminding them to take care of their mental health (much of this was during 2020, when EVERYONE was going thru it), they said "How could you say that to me right now? That really hurt..." and then I felt bad for hurting their feelings.
Not anymore. I was compassionate and practical and provided resources for them to be involved with causes THEY claimed to be passionate about. To my knowledge they never tried helping ANYONE.
No one has to tell you they are empathic.
They will be in tune with your needs….anticipate and act on those. You will feel a persons empathy just as acutely as you feel a persons apathy.
My DIL is my narcissist. She spewed a barrage of nasty threatening texts to me while I was caring for my mother during her final days of late stage cancer. She knew this..She’s a NICU nurse… yikes. You e taught me so much about how to deal with her Dr Ramani. You’ve saved me so much heartache and I thank you so much.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that. My parent is the narcissist so I can't imagine what it feels like to have your child married to one. I feel for you ♥
one of the worst is the religious hypocrite. acts like an angel in church, prays, novenas, but absolutely CANNOT show gentleness and kindness behind close doors.
ugh!
Finally I understand, WHY I do WHAT I do .... I am a Narcissist !
You got a new follower
what a Narcissist looks for in a partner /victim
empathy
loyalty
people pleaser
conscience
integrity
generous
honest
weak boundaries
avoids conflict
Easily forgiving
Very open about your life
Giving
Happy go lucky
Willing to see the relationship to the end no matter what
Can be easily controlled
Selfless
Your work has really helped me greatly. I'd like to add to the early stages of love bombing is that it took a good year and a half to realize that I fell hard for an ILLUSION of a woman who did not exist. Absolutely masterful at deception, Machavelian in fact. I never knew hurt so bad before and I have known hurt. Could not figure out how a human being could behave this way. So thanks for what you do.
My narc gives food and water to the homeless, saves turtles, feeds stray cats, and sucks up to every stranger he can while in public. While abusing his cat, abusing my own cat in the past, and like clockwork, causes horrible fights with me that often get physical about every 3 days like clockwork. It always gets blamed on me. Everything good about me gets reflected as if it’s somehow part of him. Everything bad he describes about me is overwhelmed, exaggerated, or else a reflection of something HE actually did. 😢 I don’t even feel like a person anymore. I have nothing to show for it but pain and suffering and debt and a pissload of broken promises from him. I’ll never trust another man as long as I live 😭💔
you need to do what i did. kick that toxic pc of shat to the curb, and move on.
My parents exactly to the tee!! This is so validating. Thank you Dr RAMANI for all the work you do to shed light on this darkness ❤❤
24:00 in certain circles, empathy for "categories" (people in xyz conditions, animals) is highly valued, and if you show empathy for the bird in the small cage right in front of you, you're considered not smart, even stupid.
You are honestly 100% correct about ALL topics pertaining any narcissistic person. I’m thankful to learn words that describe their manipulations etc. Your teaching is so valuable!
Thank you for sharing your recent story on the fake empathy. I have learned sooooo much from all of your videos. I've experienced 3 narcissists in my life, all women. 2 ex friends and my mother in law. Your videos have helped me heal. Each one of those women all knew my vulnerabilities and used them against me once I stood up for myself. My mother in law is an abusive woman who is alone because of her behaviors. More of a covert narcissist. But the 2 ex friends are grandiose seeming to be "happy" with a bunch of friends. The second most recent narcissistic friendship ended fairly quickly because I saw so many similarities as the first one. I had been educated so I knew more, but still too late because I had opened up to her about some things she weaponized against me later on.
All over our community social media site last year were the pseudo empathy types that came out of the woodwork. People posted that were upset losing their power and food that would go bad they spent good money on, also dealing with a hot house without running a/c running which they posted about. Then these same ppl got attacked because others would say "think about the ppl that were impacted by a direct hit from hurricane Ian!" I never knew there was a name for these tactics
I think it is definitely an effort for narcissists to engage in empathy regarding someone they have a relationship with. *Especially* when they have split and cannot regard that person as anything but negative & adversarial. They know that after so long, if anyone who has a relationship with them gets their perspective adequately heard and understood by the narcissist, the narcissist might be asked to be accountable for their hurtful behavios and are terrified of feeling shame. Lack of empathy for those they are closer with is a part of their shame shield process.
With strangers and the public, the performative empathy is an aspect of the "path of least resistance" in their minds. I agree, this empathy is a way to manipulate the majority and have a sort of social protection from consequences of their behaviors within their immediate circle. Maintaining a certain public image allows them to continue the cycle with new supply; if their community accepted how destructive they can be, they couldn't get fresh supply locally.
I've just filed for divorce from my narc husband and there are times that I question if he did really have these empathic qualities. But listening to this video helped me so much today. His empathy, that theatrical performance empathy, became more and more superficial as the marriage progressed. He had only a short menu of empathy options he would choose from. It's like you said, it's not deep, it's not consistent and it sure isn't an appropriate feeling. So I thank you Dr. Ramani for helping to make this next step of getting free from the trauma a little easier. 😘
I had one who was cold, noncommunicative, and harsh to family and close friends. He would mock and ridicule and show how he knew more or had done better than them. Then he would organize an event and do all the work to raise money for childhood cancer. It was very confusing and made you feel guilty for even wondering about his motives.
I've seen people announce LOUDLY about how they are helping an elderly person to church for a holiday (the most packed day at church), very exaggeratedly helping them walk and get into someone else's car (who is actually tasked with transporting them). The same people who, when asked to take turns taking this person to church on a regular basis, replied, "If it is important to YOU, you should do it."
Interesting, though, they have TONS of empathy for themselves and a list of excuses to back them up. One can't help but wonder if the empathy they might show to others is self-motivated. This is why I can't help but believe that such a person is dangerous to be around.
The only thing I never thought or experienced, that you, Dr Ramani, talk about is:
Thinking it was me.
Or thinking I wasn't giving them enough of a break
I never thought that.
And I'm amazed, saddened, to think that, on top of the abuse being laid on (whoever), someone, that they're questioning themselves (🥺), awful.
But also, the enablers, wet f?!!
And the ones who literally don't see it(?)!!
Oh my god
When I realized my ex had cheated on me, I was devastated. But I could tell he felt nothing. He even said "I don't know why this isn't affecting me." He must have realized that his reaction wasn't normal.
It must have been weird to see him being self reflective.
Dr Ramani, I can't thank you enough. Listening to these videos has helped my healing and moving forward so much smoother with the understanding of the situation I was in. This video in particular has allowed me to realise that there was no intentional love or care for me, and that is what the hardest thing was for me to understand. This empathy you talk of within narcissists my ex boyfriend was perfect with it. The realisation I had one day of how he could verbally abuse me the way he did but then be so nice other times. That is and what has been playing havoc on my mind. I'm really struggling trusting people and the kind words that are coming out of their mouths. I'm actually still thinking I'm the unstable one and not sure how I go back to the way I was. I was involved with him for 3 years.... I feel blessed it was only 3 years because this is a very surreal situation because it has messed with my head so much.
Just thank you. Thank you so much.
I've never understood how narcissistic people are so effective at mimicking positive traits. Why do we not detect it's a lie? Do some people see the falseness and others don't?
Please explain this if possible. 🙏
My ex organized a big birthday party for me but when I asked to have, for example a strawberry cake because it's my favorite, he got very angry with me, telling me that he was in charge of my party. Needless to say, he made sure that everybody at the party knew about all the things he had done 'for me' and enjoyed the praises from my friends. Nothing on that day was about me. But he had very well anticipated what my girl friends would recognize and admire him for.
This video reminds me of another where you said Narcissistic Personally Disorder shouldn’t be a diagnosis. If they have empathy but deliberately ignore it, that is not a mental illness, that is a moral character flaw.
You are SO good Dr Ramini! You really know this subject inside and out! I smiled a lot during this video as I vividly recognised the traits in the 3 narcissists I know. It's so good to have these traits verbalised - spot on! 🙂