I noticed you said they would say “witch hunt” that’s the former POTUS all the way. He’s the biggest narcissist and our country got a Master Class in how these stupid bullies act. So glad he’s gone and hopefully he’ll end up in prison like he deserves. “Lock him up”
Yesterday I gave myself the gift of posting what ended up beina divisive and revealing question on a Reddit subgroup. Initially I was looking for a conversation/ discussion. It ended up revealing itself as a possible social experiment which scared my more timid daughter so I ended up hiding it. There were many thoughtful responses to my question speculating on a particular local phenomenon and a possible connection with narcissists. On the other hand, there were responses from a number of others who either stated their refusal to engage or actually attacked me for being unqualified to have a questioning mind. I think I would enjoy going back to school to find the kind of thoughtful discourse I crave. Nuance was totally impossible for the black and white thinkers who refused to read my words as written.
I’m learning firsthand that watching these types of videos daily is really helpful in living with my narcissist. The specific topic doesn’t really even matter. It just helps to have some consistent reminder that I am, in fact, dealing with a narcissist. I’ll find myself walking into some trap, and now I’ll snap out of it like “oh yeah! Silly me, almost forgot who I’m talking to”. You can never let your guard down, and if you do, you have to forgive yourself.
Narcissists are really careless - reminds me of the line from the Great Gatsby: “They were careless people, Tom and Daisy - they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”
I had to read that book for an English 101 class too once. I do remember reading near the end of that great work of fiction about the character named Jay Gatsby who ended up getting killed in a motor vehicle accident after a character by the name of Tom Buchanan; while he was cheating on his own wife Daisy; - found out that Daisy was cheating on him too with Jay. For sure there may have been another careless driver character involved in the demise of the character named Jay. Is that quote in your comment something in dialogue which tthe character Nick or his sweety the golfer said which I can't recall reading now too?
Thank you for addressing all of this. I have found channels of self-aware narcissists and so many of the followers pity the narcissists and say "awww poor narc. They just had a bad childhood." I hate it. My narc guardian didnt feed me, she kicked my dad into a nursing home where he died alone so she could siphon our inheritance. She threw out all our stuff, renovated the house with my dads money and took over our childhood home. She had me write checks to herself out of an account my name was on lying to me. I, as a child, was used as a tool for my own undoing of my inheritance. She raged at us, didnt feed us, kept us in the basement of my childhood home. She laughed at me for crying when my best friend died. She had us in a cult and exorcised us. She said we had demons because we were bad kids. She drugged us with natural lithium from the church natropath that made my sister and i hallucinate. Then, i was kicked out of my childhood home because i confronted her for abuse. The cult pastors got involved and they didnt help. . At the end of the meeting when my guardian and i were alone i screamed at her because she was laughing at me crying because the pastors wouldnt help me or see her for what she was. She laughed and what she said sent a chill down my spine, "amanda. Now youre just like me." These are just some highlights of my abuse. This is why i cant stomach when society wants to baby the narcissist. After 10 years of being away from her, i have empathy but its taken so much therapy and years of distance. I think she was a malignant narcissist. Abusing orphans and widows and commiting estate fraud.. id think she has sociopathic traits. Thanks for reading if youve made it this far.
So sorry for your experience. She does sound malignant and the things that she did are insane. My narc mom has bipolar 1 - and she truly believed that she is the reincarnation of a goddess, and is here to heal the world. She had a narcissistic worldview towards everyone - holier than thou attitude being the most, and the organisation then kicked her out. My narc dad however, is malignant. I suffered from CSA by him from three to twelve. Interestingly, my narc mom’s “goddess era” (lol) began when the abuse ended. I think that she knew all along, and needed some new delusion to fix this insanity of a life that our family was living. Anyways, I hope that you’re doing okay - and ups and downs are common, but we can get through this because we went through some crazy ass stuff. Take care.!
@floatingmischief I'm so sorry. That sounds absolutely hellish and horrible 😕 I have a friend who has a mom who has NPD and bipolar and she sounds the same as your mom. I hope you have found healing. We definitely have gone through some super hard crap. ❤️ we are definitely resilient.
I can relate and empathize with your experience. 😢 Hope that you are doing much better and healing. It takes a long time, but even the seemingly smallest personal victory, day by day, is healing and strength. ❤❤
I am so sorry for your experience, I'm at a loss of words..... How are you know? Could you successfully heal, as far as it is possible after such abuse? Much 💕💕💕 to you, thank you for sharing that story!
We here on Dr Ramani's chat will always be here for each other. The group may morph with time and people who heal and no longer need it will happen. But there will always be more people needing this help. Thank you all for being the only place I had.❤
Promised therapy: My ex husband promised to go to therapy, was diagnosed with NPD and started behavioral therapy. He stated that there was nothing wrong with him and didn't need medication. I know his therapist was supposed to be on his side and he was. The behavior therapy mostly taught him skills to be a MASTER manipulator. He became so mean and abusive that I feared for my life and the life of my children. He NEVER stopped using drugs. I finally fled with my children and cut all ties.
Sorry, but the therapist doesn't have to be on the patient side. They need to be impartial, help someone to better themselves, not justifying their actions. Unfortunately if they do their job right they will loose these types of clients, and implicit, money. So they choose to keep their clients coming at any cost.
May I ask how the divorce went? I watched a Ramani video with a divorce attorney and was saying it can takes years and upwards of $100k to get a divorce because the husband wants to make it as troubling as possible and be in control. Was yours that expensive and take that long? It worries me about leaving now.
BEHAVIOR is always intentional. These are my thoughts. Even and especially when they deny it. Repetition proves it. Your honesty and generosity are SO healing. TY.
“No, you didn’t feel that!” Said my sibling. My healing self responded, “ you don’t get to tell me how I feel. I am the only one who knows how and what I feel. You don’t get to dictate that.” It was a significant moment for both of us. 😊 own your feelings and know they are valid and valuable!!!
if they get to decide what you are feeling or should be feeling tell them it works both ways after calling them out & after their reaction to that calling out..
The lack of empathy in my relationship is a struggle for me to understand. When I get sick my spouse complains that it's inconvenient for her because I get grumpy and do less dishes when I'm sick, rather than expressing sympathy for my misfortune and hoping I am not in too much discomfort. When I almost died on a mountain trip she responded "this is why I don't do mountain adventures" instead of "I'm glad you didn't die." If I had died, it's like it would have been a problem for her, the grieving widow, not a problem for me, the dead guy. Exhausting.
OMG...I experience the same stuff all the time. I dish out foot rubs and back rubs etc almost everyday and get nothing in return. If I ask I get a "u so demanding " or a "I'm not feeling well". Everything that ever happens is always my fault. Always being told how I've ruined her life. I can't take it anymore.
The lack of empathy in opportunistic bystanders who are witnessing horrible narcissitic abuse while for example feeling proud of how well they are living together while being faithful to one another before marriage really got to me and some other university students too while having to read that novel called, "The Great Gatsby." One of my astute and intelligent young class mate when asked said it was his opinion that in that novel no character was of good character including however not limited to the characters Nick and his athletic golfer girlfriend whats her name I cannot remember too.
I can only speak as an individual with BPD, and it actually scares me how spot on you are with the way you explain these disorders without actually having one yourself!!
Have empathy from afar - (like on the other side of a giant brick ‘no contact’ wall). There is no other way to be free from the impact of abuse. Choose self first always💙
@@theresesilvawalker8407 Take care of yourself. This is not easy. It gets much easier in time. You know what you want 👏 You are not alone 🙏 Best wishes✨
Here's my why question: Why do people so often side with, or excuse the narcissist even when it's so obvious that the narcissist's behavior is inexcusable?
Because they are buddies with them or whatever the situation is. Basically playing favourites. Another reason can be that they're too scared of repercussions when they don't side. If you watch a court hearing, or some political debate, that can show you.
Because that person is guilty of similar behavior and attitudes. They recognize that when the narcissist is called out and immediately goes to their defense as a rationalization for their own destruction.
One of the BEST VIDEOS from Doctor Ramani that I have seen yet! I tagged this one to listen to very often. It expains so many major things, and is a real gift. Thank you, Doctor Ramani for this and all the work you do. I know you know this, but this video and every video changes lives for the better
That quote at the end was 100% my dad. Furious little man. He said to me once, “if you were a boy, I’d hit you right now.” It’s not the same as being physically abused, but it’s still very damaging to know your father *wants* to beat you up.
I know small children who know better than to act the way the narcissists in my life do. Children have the capacity for empathy and are more responsive to the emotions of another than the narcissistic parents who raised them. It doesn't matter what made a narcissist who they are. They hurt and abuse others and either don't care about the pain they cause, or they enjoy it. Their own emotions matter to them. A malignant narcissist enjoys inflicting pain. A grandiose or self-righteous narcissist believes they know well enough to tell everyone around them what they should or shouldn't be doing while they do as they please. The world is their oyster, and we, their pawns.
Narcissists know, they know that they hurt you! After some especially heinous behavior, they will ask for forgiveness. The worst thing we can do is forgive them to their face. Why? It gives them permission to do it again, and worse! Get out asap when you safely can, and don't fall for the lies. You will get such a wacking you can't wrap your mind around it before it happens! ❤
That reminds me of my covert N mother asking or kinda demanding I forgive her after she made some blank excuse. I asked excuse what for. Didn't get no answer. I guess she just wanted a kind of general pardon for everything, just to wash her own consciousness and start all over pretending again as nothing changed. Later i guess she was upset by the fact she did expose she did many things that need an apology, even while refusing to adres them. Weird stuff where I'dd have to forgive something unknown and then go on pretending nothing ever happened. It made me think "wtf did you do" ... But I guess she didn't care about that, just about getting herself off the hook. To me that was one of the big awakening moments where she exposed herself and was kinda helpful to me even if she intended something totally different that backfired on her. Of course she wasn't to blame, It was me who should just have forgiven her and I'm probably the narcissist because I didn't. Yea, why don't I make an excuse for something she did but refuses to tell me what. It always boggles my mind how narcissists try to turn everything around and inside out, like that have no ethics, no sense of truth or facts.. To me they seem adrift and lost in their own minds and don't know what is right or wrong, up or down. So they just chase their instinctive needs.. Dangerous people who can never be trusted.
Once you are an adult, a bad childhood is not an excuse for your behavior. You are responsible for getting help and changing. Nothing you went through is an excuse. Also most people who experience actual trauma are relieved when it is done. Relieved to be safe. They don't choose to live inside that trauma as validation for bad behavior.
I can't always watch your videos, and at other times binge them. So sorry these comments come somewhat late and seem generic. I'm just thankful you're educating us on how to recognize and respond to these people, and how to protect ourselves and forgive ourselves. Thank you! ❣
( he would give me one of two answers depending on the day 🙄) - I just Am!! ( and if you don't like it leave!) - I'm not. I was in a GREAT mood til I got around you 👉👉👉😾 So, no matter what it was always my fault. And after 9 years of it, I can happily say " Was.". I'm free! 🎉🎊🎉🎊
@@amarbyrd2520 Oh honey, it took me two years of trauma therapy ( which I'm still in )and losing 20 pounds from stress/ anxiety of being with him, calling the Suicide Hotline three times in those 9 years- because he'd pushed me to the brink of a ( near) mental breakdown. It wasn't luck. And I'd ghost him go no contact repeatedly - he'd always get a new text# and convince me of why I needed to see him. But this last time stuck -- it Finally dawned on me 💡💡💡how he was destroying Me; and he was Never, Ever going to change. And the physical abuse was accelerating, I was afraid he'd truly kill me. So I no longer care, I can't be hoovered ever again. You'll reach that point, too. You have to value yourself and Love yourself. I can honestly say I do, now.
I have been the victim of so many narcs, so different in their form of abuse from each other that I didn't realise they were all doing the same things to me for the same reasons for years
One of the BEST❤ videos so far! I think I have group 2 partner and it messes with my head, but I see him trying (and seeing the bad behavior in others). You have such amazing insight and valuable, realistic expectations. Also descriptions and expectations are very validating. Even though no one can promise anything, the way they think, act and any progress toward change kind of calms my mind and explains why can seem self aware, try, sometimes fail and revert due to their own frustration and exhaustion.
I give up on the why, it really doesn’t matter. My mother is the most hateful horrible person you could ever imagine. It’s been like this as far as I can remember. I think she even resents me that she had to quit high school and having me wasn’t part of her plan. In 1956, she couldn’t dispose of me so instead she disposes me at her leisure. She’s kept my family ripped apart totally because of her mouth and actions.
Right out of the gate you described what I used to ask my narc sister. Why are you doing this? Can't we just have a conversation? She would hang up every time in a fit. Now it isn't an issue because I no longer engage. Sure is nice and peaceful.
I’m almost 34 and finally accepted over the last few months that I’ll never know most of the “whys”. I’m not going to torture myself over my childhood anymore. I understand it wasn’t my fault - it’s not my fault now. I choose to forgive my dad for allowing the abuse, despite never receiving an apology. I know now, that I can choose to forgive for myself.
Ty so much for what u do to help all of us out here. I see a therapist and a psychiatrist, but u have taught me so much more then i would have gotten from any therapist, because u know what we are going thru, u know the answers to questions that we dont know how to ask. Questions that we dont even know should be asked. And the first part of this video today was awesome.. i , being a mother of a narc 38 yr old daughter, have so much guilt because she has blamed me for all her bad behavior, f or all her faults, everything that goes wrong with her life( and truthfully, she has a really decent life except the fact she treats everyone close to her like crap and its all our faults) And then u said" its not our fault" thank you, thank you, thank you. I went running thru the house looking for my younger daughter , saying" see, its not my fault, " And then i had her listen to the video. She also has suffered greatly at the hands of her older sister. But we are getting better, little by little. Again, ty so much for doing what u do , Dr.Ramani. ❤
Thank you for explaining the concept of fake futuring. I recently got out of an emotionally abusive relationship with a alcoholic narcissist. I never considered the damage done until now after I've gotten away from them. I feel like I walked through the last year blind to who this person was, the more I realise just how much they used me 😢 I'm ruminating on them alot right now and I am trying so hard to work through it.
I've started to follow Dr Ramani 4 years ago, and 4 years after, I'm still finding life-saving content. Why I am still forging my career between covert narcs and group 4 narcissist persons (totally unaware narcissist person) that's another story, but still, huge thank you.
Doctor, would you not agree, that the best way to deal with these people (if you're not living with them), is to realize how they are, and just back off, and not bother with them?
Not a doctor, but yes, usually it is best to get away. However, sometimes you CAN'T for example they are a neighbor and you are stuck living in your apartment for another year. Or they are your kids dad, and they won't let you go. "What do you mean?" Well, said neighbor might pound on your door at all hours or peer into your window then shout at you to come out of your home. "Hey! I see you in there! Come out now!" Growing up my dad would follow my mom and us kids in his car to macdonalds and watch us eat. He would then whine and beg my mom to buy him a burger (he couldn't afford it and my single mom couldn't either. He response was like "I pay child support every month so you owe me a burger." Growing up I never realized that such a thing was creepy, but it was. Please note that my dad was not invited he just joined us on his own. He thought was allowed to come with us to macdonalds because we were his kids and it was a public place. Narcissists are like this. Sometimes no matter what you do, even if you divorce them, they will still come around.
@@specialtwice4975 Yes, my mom and dad divorced over 40 years ago. We lived in Florida. More than half the time, he was in Michigan, working at the Ford Plant, which was fine with her, me snd my sister. He didn't hit us, but he yelled at us quite a bit, even when he would come down for a weekend visit. Well, long story short, he lost his job at Ford, and came down permanently with us. Needless to say, that wasn't fun. He was an idiot, and we got yelled at more, i believe, because he knew he was an idiot. Sorry to ramble (text so much)
Genetics has a lot to do with narcissism I believe. There are plenty of ppl who were abused in children but still have empathy and never became narcissists
I’ve seen future faking turned into punishment. An acquaintance was told “Well, I was ready to ask you to marry me (marriage was a future plan) but YOU have been such an emotional demanding b*tch that now I won’t and it’s all YOUR fault.”
I hope the friend replied "oh, Im so glad you've said so. Ive been worried for so long about how to tell you I no longer wished to marry you. Hope we can still be friends." Wink wink😁
Personally i think it's doubtful the narcissist even plans to realize the future fakes. It's more something like a future fantasy they wish for to magically appear. Kinda peter pan complex. buy we have to pay upfront. But they won't hesitate to kind of blackmail by refusing the promised land. As if they ever had the intention to begin with. I think it's close to the guilt/shame trip thing narcissists do, only you get guilt tripped/shamed over something they promised and refuse you themselves. It's really kinda sick.
For years I said the my group 4 hubby was “pernicious without being malicious.” That’s what Dr. Ramani means by the partner providing justification. I gave him pass after pass after pass for 20 years. It was finally al-anon that gave me the “courage to change” my marital status. Now he has dragged me into court to sell our house out from under me, and I’m finally ready to call out maliciousness for what it is.
❤ out of all the videos watched and saved for future reference….this video is my favorite. Dr. Ramani communicates and empathicly shares this information with us is clear, understandable and quite frankly brilliant. Thank you! Thank you so much. 💞🤗
Thank you for your work and caring, Dr. Ramani. I have referred many in Canada to you. Yes, indeed, Why? And the other big question is " What have I done?" I once heard a NARC victim say: "please tell me what I have done, so I can apologise profusely and make it up to you.". Talk about putting your foot in the trap....
They try to make you have all of their quirks and appropriate good parts of your own accents. The earlier we know these things, the better. ❤ Thank you Doc. Ramani!
Thank you very much, Dr. Ramani. This is very helpful. You know what’s funny? I put this video on to help me cope when my narcissistic loved one who was being narcissistic, with the hope that this person might gain a little insight into his own behavior, and guess what? He got up & left the room. Exit stage left. It’s like this every single time. He’s even become violent over your videos - just the sound of the music at the start of your videos can set him off. I try to listen to them in secret for the most part, but sometimes I have hope that maybe - just maybe - he’ll think to himself, “Wow. I do that to her. That must really hurt her…” but nope! … You want to know one of the worst parts about this - aside from being treated like I’m dead for days to weeks at a time? Is that every time he hurts me & I gather the courage to stand up for myself or attempt to talk with him about it, with the hope of growing our relationship, he becomes rageful, invalidates everything I say, turns everything around on me, and escalates into crazy making behavior that is so disturbing & confusing that the point of the conversation is lost & I’m hurt more than I was to begin with. Traumatizing, dehumanizing & demoralizing… 3 words I’ve come to know the meaning of, sadly. And then he stonewalls the hell out of me, denying me of basic human contact & common courtesy, starving me of affection, companionship, etc, as if punishing me, until I am so lonely & broken… I used to fall apart & then he’d rescue me. It didn’t take long for me to recognize a pattern of abuse had developed. It was often psychopathic. Total lack of empathy, even when I was in need of medical care & physically hurt…. But I’ve learned to not let him have that power over me anymore. Love does not destroy a person. Love should heal & help build people up. Not break them down. Not crush their spirit… Not destabilize every aspect of their existence… But thats the price I pay for attempting to build a healthy relationship with this person. He used to adore me. I do not know who he has become. He’s like Jekyll & Hyde. I am just something to make him feel good when he’s already feeling good. But when he’s feeling bad? Watch out. After years of trying to understand the WHY, I realized that he really doesn’t give a shit anymore. Only when it’s convenient to him. And so there is a different kind of loneliness now. Knowing that there is no hope in the conversation. And so I have so much love to give, I feel like it’s eating a hole inside me. I can’t afford to leave. I could tell him exactly what I need & it doesn’t matter to him most days. I can’t go on living under these circumstances. I am working so hard to build a life for myself & my kids. I’m tired of the quality of our lives being controlled by his unstable mood state & difficult personality. It’s exhausting! So much wasted time & energy when we should be enjoying life. God bless you Dr. Ramani. Thanks for all you do! Your videos have helped save me from the darkness so I can be a light for my family.
Hi Dr. Ramani! If you see this I was wondering if you could talk about when people on the narcissistic scale use “therapy talk” to manipulate, blame shift, etc? I’ve seen a few therapists on tiktok talk about it, but a full video would be more helpful. Love your content!💛
Even if narcissism is not "classified" as a mental illness in the psychiatric community, nor in the DSMV, I most definitely classify it that way - as a person who has dealt with some of them in our family.
@ser3385 one person actually pointed that out ages ago. Well worth the read, just like listening to a diagnosed narcissist. You get some pretty good information from them. There's channel's on here and on other social platforms. One guy I watched was was reading out some information from victims liked how they should just kill their unborn child etc. It was actually sick thinking how people just say stuff without thinking how much of an impact it has on someone
you got me when you talked about impulsivity, because that´s what I had to deal a lot with, changing the dates , agreements without notice or like at the moment it self , and the trouble was she diagnosed her self with adhd, and used it as an excuse for not keeping to this , it drove me crazy
When I was 12 years old my mother asked me to do her housework. She promised to pay me. The first four weeks she did pay me. But stopped. When I asked her why, she screamed at me saying I should know she couldn’t afford to pay me. But she expected me to continue doing her housework. I had seven siblings so had a lot of work to do. I lost my childhood. I didn’t have time to have friends, hobbies, and was not even allowed to read until all the work was done. Anyway I vowed I’d never make promises I couldn’t be sure of keeping.
When I talk to my sister, she response "well, do you think you're making more of it than it is?" Why doesn't she ever believe what I'm saying or feeling is accurate. Why doesn't she value or validate my experience. When i tell her i don't care for how one SIL behaves, she might say "well, i think she does good things too". Yes, she does do good things. But, she's missing the point: this doesn't absolve her from her unhealthy behaviors. Thus, as I've been hurt my family does this mean it's okay, because they have done good things as well.
She is probably gaslighting you, invalidating you, so she can feel good, right in her own mind. If she can do that, it's makes you, your ideas, your feeling small and or unimportant. She may not even being aware she is doing this or would be horrified and deny it (that would make her the awful person and CANNOT HAPPEN - so please don't call her out..) She is probably knocking you down due to her deep insurities. Is this fair? No way! I have one too like her. You shock her and create self-awareness, which may spark awareness & potential change. More likely, she will make your life worse & view this as a challenge as she will view this as "knocking her tower down," hurting her - she will retaliate and treat you worse. If you do try to talk to her, you might point out her actions could appear as invalidating, a bad look, not very empathic, (fill in another description that she doesn't want to identify with.) Some narricistic people LOVE to hurt you & get a reaction. If they think they are making themselves look bad, it is less personal to you and some will care how they come across.😮😮
If she is truly sincere, she may truly think she is helping you do reality testing - it could still be very damaging (beyond all DR.RAMANI videos see Middle Mid-Range Angel HG Tutor and Gaslighting Dr.Cloud). Some hate (what they view as) weakness or vulnerability and like to minimize, invalidate, gaslight, play devils advocate, make you out to be too sensitive, to get over it, move on, forget the past, etc. Many times, too, they may want to get the conversation or attention back on them or what their interested in. Hope that helps. You are very perceptive to recongognize her invalidation. Glad you are getting info and knowledge from DR.RAMANI and narricisim it has changed my life.. so grateful 🙏
If she admits that your words are true, then she has to do something about the situation. And it is inconvenient to her. If she pretends that you are always exagerrating, she doesn't have to make any decisions.
Idk why people stay in Unhappy Unhealthy relationships. When anyone is hurting you in any way and you’ve taken all the steps possible to bring this to their attention so things can change; if & when they don’t It’s time to get out (in my opinion)
@@michele0324 I have been in all those circumstances myself with my children, I believed that once married that’s how it was. However, I went without food clothes whatever it took to save back a little money not much and with the help of police I got out not once but twice (2 different marriages Years apart) I was beaten, abused in Every sense of the word including sexually; I was followed over 1,200 miles away from my abuser who also had threatened my sons. Had to learn to walk again as I spent 6 1/2 years in a wheelchair. I’ve been free since 1999 & I Thank God every day that I’m a Survivor.
If an abuser is letting you go super easily…. They weren’t that bad. And if abuse doesn’t work to trauma bond and incapacitate you….. it wasn’t that bad, or it didn’t work as well as the abuser intended. It usually does work though.
@@nataliaalfonso2662 my ex husband tried to kill me more times than you & I have fingers and toes to count on I spent 6 1/2 years in a wheelchair had to learn to walk again & he Followed me over 1,200 miles to try some more so I think it’s safe to say it was BAD!! I’m a Lucky & Thankful Survivor. Nice last name btw that’s my maiden name also same spelling even
My life is destroyed by groups one, three & four! Mother, aunts, neighbor(s). They see us, as disposable appliances, broken mirrors, or as punchimg bags. But they're more sadistic than that. Demonic. Good impersonation, but of course they're a thousand times worse. Oh no. They say ALL that and worse to sound rediculous!!!! And you're right a three year old is a thousand times more sophistocated. Ya, that book you quoted, all our holidays. You're wrong about one thing. Mom thinks it's okay to say, ALL those things and worse.
Regarding intentional harm: once, during a brief foray into couples counseling, I asked my husband whether he still found me sexually attractive. He spent a good 20-40 minutes obfuscating, which led me to believe that he must not have found me sexually attractive or he would’ve just said so. Years later, when I asked him about that incident, he confided to me that he had evaded the question that day because he felt backed against a wall and under attack by both the therapist and me. He was going to be damned if he was going to give me a straight answer. So yes, in that instance, he was behaving punitively. He knew he was hurting me in that moment, and he didn’t care.
My brother has had no contact with our NPD mother for over 10 years. He was the "Scapegoat". She keeps asking me..what did I do for him to cut me out? Does my NPD mom really know why? or is she really clueless?
My mom is number three. She quickly pulled the plug on my brother after a stroke because she is “older and her children should be taking care of her not the other way around”. Since my brother was the one that was codependent with her she is now looking to me to take his place. I was the scapegoat. I can’t handle it - the anxiety, etc. I’m terrified of her and the abuse I’ve suffered at her hands for decades. I don’t know what to do.
Say no! Don’t t give any excuses that she can argue with her illogical reasoning. Just say no, withdraw from her and expect the shitstorm of flying monkeys. Put your sanity first, she never will. Good luck.
I am in the same boat! I feel for you. It is my father who is still that narcissist at his 76 or 75. He is more arrogant, selfish, self-centered, bad mouthed, always angry and full of hatered for everyone and thinks of himself above EVERYONE, I think he might secretly think he is God. my mom is thankfully alive but even then I feel sorry for her because her husband takes out his irrational anger and frustration on my mom. Taking my father to his doctor appointments and translate for him gives me huge anxiety even setting close to him gives my whole body ache and pain, my whole body, hands, legs, spirit, heart and mind and everything rejects him as a terribly negative and dark soul. I do not want him to die, but I just wish he goes to USA to his other kids to take care of him, however all my siblings stay away from him no one likes him. He used be like this in his youth as well, and now has turned into an even dark and disgusting old man. I love to respect and take care of seniors, but not my own father as he truly does not deserve any respect with all his transactional relationship with me, my mother, my siblings.
As a Scapegoat child myself, Get Out if you can. It only gets worst. I stayed to the very end of my Narcissistic mother and I wish I knew then what I know now! I have C-PTSD and my Anxiety is so much worst! These parents eat their children "Psychology!" Think about that! Look up "Does Narcissists get more dangerous with age." I believe my NM gave my dad an overdose of Morphin when he was on Hospice. She said, "Dad will be gone Saturday" and he passed away that Saturday. She always said, "She didn't want him to last long!" I pray you are safe and can be free to heal.❤
Get out. If you can, try. Even if you try doing it for a few days to see how you feel. I know the obligation as a child tears some people up but you have to preserve yourself. Your mother won’t.
My narcissistic husband of 30 years is extremely manipulative and controlling. He wanted out after he had taken what he wanted financially. He still keeps telling everyone that I am the ‘nasty’ person because I’ve accused him of being coercive and controlling. He surely knows he has hurt me and continues to control and hurt me -now using my disabled daughter to try to control me and achieve his next goal
The reason I still wonder if narcissists know they are narcissistic is because intentionally harming people and actually being unaware that they are harming others are two different things. Not to deny that toxic behaviour is toxic behavior though
My mother meeting my fiance parents for the first time, at there home. Built in pool, great people, having BBQ, I walk into pool and my mother says, "here comes the tidlewave!" And laughs, Noone else laughed. And some other derogatory statements.. How embarrassing, 😢how sad, how humiliated I felt. Thank you for this, I finally feel validated. Oh she didn't mean it, it was a joke! Liz
It has been my experience with family, friends, bosses or co-workers that whenever a question starts with the word "why" it can never be answered fully or satisfactorily whether it is posed to a narcissist or any other person. I no longer answer the "why" questions.
Absolutely agree. You'd think they have suddenly acquired "alzheimers" all of a sudden. You ask in several different ways the same question, and they give different answers. You'd think there would be 1 answer for 1 problem....obviously not with them.
This resonates soo much with me future faked most of my married life 37 years, a few more weeks and I will be free tk you Dr Ramani I learned from you I was living with a Narcissist it set me free ❤
My partner is someone who recognizes these issues but also sometimes doesn’t get it… when recognizes he works on them… everything is nice and happy until it isn’t… and then again the apologies… it’s ok… happy times… another outburst… again apologies… becoming better… another outburst… sometimes I feel so drained that I go numb and don’t even have the energy to give a reaction… the process of making amends with a narcissist is like having to peel off layers of yourself to maintain the peace and calm in the relationship…
Actually, it is my younger sister, by one year who is the narcissist. She has not only said that she hates me, but has been physically abusive to me. When she was 6 months old, and I, 19 months old, our mother went into a coma fom MS, for 6 months. Our 2 grandmothers and aunt descended on our home, and apparently spoiled her rotten. I, on the other hand became invisible. When our mother woke up, I apparently ran up to our mother, crying, "Mommy, Mommy". Our sister refused to go to her, and from that moment acted as though she hated both our mother, and me. It didn't help that our father is a malignant narcissist, who also resented our mother after she woke up, and needed assistance. My sister was physically abusive, and verbally abusive to our mother, who excused her by saying, " She didn't have a mother when she was 6 months old." Everyone of my birthdays, my sister had a fit, whereas I was, after the initial making of the party, and buying of the cake, largely ignored, while my "poor sister" was coddled. I remember her taking my presents, only to hear my paternal grandmother admonish me with, " Don't be selfish. Share and share alike." Except the sharing only went in one direction. To this day, that sister is verbally abusive, invalidating of me and my accomplishments, and gaslights. Our mother died when I was 14, and she 13. We have another sister who my Mom gave birth to, 2 years before she died, as well as an adopted brother who my parents adopted 17 days before my youngest sister was born. For decades I tried, without success to form a relationship with that middle sister. I finally went from Gray Rock to No Contact, until our brother died suddenly a year and a half ago. He and our middle sister both lived in the same State, and I in another country, across the ocean. Our brother's friends called me, to handle the arrangements, which I started until I realized that I would need that sister's assistance. Our youngest sister lives far away, in another State. Up until our brother's funeral, I endured that sister's abusive behavior as well as her gaslighting. We are pretty much No Contact now. I have basically accepted that she has always hated me, and always will, and there is nothing that I can say or do to not have her twist my behavior or words into something evil. To tell you that even after almost 65 years that it doesn't hurt would be to lie. I have accepted who she is, but that doesn't stop the hurt.
Today I had some really fun time laughing with my N. husband I have recently told I want him to go. Of course he doesn’t want to lose an easy nest & is acting better,I remembered Dr.RAMANI telling me about narcissism . The thought came to me that just because I was laughing with the clown 🤡 doesn’t mean I want Freddy Krueger to stay 😮😂!!!
I made the mistake once of asking my elderly covert narc mother WHY was she so unhappy? I asked in a low empathic whisper. OMG. She came unglued and started yelling and my dad ran in the room and she told him I was chewing her out. So my dad threw me out of the house.
My mother behaved this way even when i flew from Australia to visit family in UK. Can’t believe I tried more than once with my family of origin. Urrrgh.
I was in a relationship with a person in group #4 and I broke up with him and afterwards he stalked me and harassed me for several months. I finally got the justice system involved and now I have a protection order. Talk about difficult people!
Yellow rocking I think is the best way to go with separating then divorcing. Esp when you have to coparent and go through mediation. Be wise and warm towards them so they can me more agreeable in court. My case didn’t go to trial and this is what I did.
The Narc, that I dated, definitely knew he was future faking! Recently, he did this to get me to stop asking about scheduling a trip together (any trip!). He knew I was excited about getting my new passport and wanted to go on a little getaway. He would say "We will go somewhere". But then when I would throw out some tropical destinations, I would get no response OR one time he told me to stop bothering him. Bothering him!!... I mentioned a places and just wanted to see what he thought. Always a pleasure to deal with a Narc. One evening, I arrived at his house and he had his expired, old passport sitting on the counter. I immediately thought... Here we go... more mind games! I didn't care to play along so I didn't say anything about it. He started talking about the old passport saying "I received my new one but I guess they let us keep our old one....blah, blah, blah.." At one point, he throws in..."I should go to the Bahamas". Not "We" but "I". Unhuman Ass!
Regarding future faking. I don’t believe my group 4 husband was ever lying. I think he was 100% sincere about sexual intimacy, about having children, about having a beautiful wedding, and about buying the house of my dreams. But in each instance, when the moment of truth arrived, he deprived me, with seemingly no awareness that he was future faking, and with no awareness, consideration, or concern regarding the extent to which he was in that moment literally ruining my life.
You reminded me of my very narcissistic cousin who once long ago complained to me how she didnt understand why people didnt get along with her because-as she thought- she was too authoritarian. Well she said that with a prideful look i remember🫤now I know that she is just a narcissist. You will hear soo many bizarre stories from them about themselves youll almost feel like laughing outloud later.
My “group 4” husband-from whom I am now getting divorced-has been in “Lacanian psychoanalysis” for over 10 years. And he really thinks it has done him a lot of good. But I think what it has done is given him tools for accepting who and what he is and permission to keep doing what he’s doing without thinking that he needs to change at all. It’s making him more secure and more comfortable in his group 4 behaviors. He rebuffed any attempt on my part to get us into couples counseling, and he rebuffed my attempt to get us into a 12 step program for couples, and ultimately I initiated the separation. After 20 years! 🤷🏻♂️
When I stop to think about it, the very few times my ex narc WENT to therapy, I now believe that, instead of working on the narcissism, he actually used the therapy as a source of SUPPLY. IT WAS AFTER HE STARTED THERAPY that he decided he should start hiding money from me. I thought it was curious that his decision to stop putting money into our joint account came AFTER he started therapy. The gas lighting, lying and inappropriate behaviors only escalated after that (until the therapist stopped seeing him). In any case, the behaviors and shady behavior just continued to escalate . . . .until the inevitable. Interesting. Would love Dr. Ramani’s thoughts on that trajectory. . . never really thought about it that deeply until now. Too busy enjoying my hard won peace and semblance of financial order and freedom instead of the CHAOS and disorder I lived in for years.
This is video is right on time for me…..I thought I met someone new. I thought my narc ex would be my last encounter with them on a love level. I dated narc style 1 for years, he’s what allowed me to know what a narcissist truly is. Then now I’m having to say bye to my narc of just under 2 years who I’m thinking is a narcissist style 2. Once you get into a heated discussion that isn’t going his way he gets verbally disrespectful, I’m a cool pisean woman but I wait fora hot minute before I verbally retaliate. I’m not an easy push over and after my first experience I’m not leaving room for narc no2 to think I’m a supply for him. Imagine 2 of my narcs laughing in the doorway as narc1 came to pick up his 8yr daughter. Story time loading
I feel sorry for the narcissistic people in that they mostly won't be able to form and keep good relationships with people, and have very very strained relationships or are estranged from family😔 When it is family, it is very very hard 😔
Dr Ramani, You talk about different narcissistic individuals (i.e. malignant, grandiose, communal, vulnerable, self righteous). Can you explain/define the differences please?
The description of the 4th group (at 21:15) makes me think of my mother... except she'd be a lower grade narc than this description. She has some communal narc traits also, but seems very insightless regarding her personal relationships and she is sort of a psychotherapy-addict, like she wants to figure it out, but as far as I can tell, she mostly uses therapy for confirmation of how much of a victim she is... do you think that description makes sense?
Dr you have described my ex narc to a T. Raging future faking etc etc etc. I'm glad she dumped me although it hurt so much. She is 66 so no changing her😢😢😢
Hi Dr. It has occurred to me that if 20 percent of all people in the world fall into each one of four types of narcs, then what we actually are dealing with is a total of 80 percent of us are narcs. That would be a larger perspective as to just exactly why life is so intensely difficult at this time in history for the remaining 20 percent who possess empathy. We simply run headlong into one after another of these in the 80 percent group who are hopelessly mentally ill who are the successful “norm” in society. ❤
Is it possible to be a mix of 3 and 4? My mother ticks off all the markers for 3 and some for 4. My brother is also 3, I believe. He checks most of those boxes.
If you asked him more than one question ...let's say 3 questions ...about a subject of conversation, he would annoyingly say "Stop peppering me with questions!" Peppering!! I asked a few questions. That is peppering?!? I am inquisitive and analytical...I ask questions. I have never dated someone who had a problem with it. One time, we ordered Thai Food. Unfortunately, the containers were not labeled. I ordered panang and he had red curry. I opened the containers and I was looking at them. I then asked a few questions about how are we going to determine which one was which (some ingredients would be different). More like talking out loud, rhetorical type questions. He got annoyed and gave me a horrible look and told me to stop asking questions. I have story upon story of the craziness that it is to deal with a Narc.
I am going non contact with my sisters. Sometimes I know I have vulnerable narcissistic traits, but won’t know my part until I get away from my family of origin. I don’t know if they are narcissistic but because of our late narcissistic mom, it is very difficult to tell what is going on. I know I don’t want to be the person I am when I’m around them.
Ahh, daily dose of Dr. Ramani 💆♀️ to keep me sane
I noticed you said they would say “witch hunt” that’s the former POTUS all the way. He’s the biggest narcissist and our country got a Master Class in how these stupid bullies act. So glad he’s gone and hopefully he’ll end up in prison like he deserves. “Lock him up”
Amen
Yes. I am so glad for this help. 🧡
I understand this💖💖💖
Yesterday I gave myself the gift of posting what ended up beina divisive and revealing question on a Reddit subgroup. Initially I was looking for a conversation/ discussion. It ended up revealing itself as a possible social experiment which scared my more timid daughter so I ended up hiding it. There were many thoughtful responses to my question speculating on a particular local phenomenon and a possible connection with narcissists. On the other hand, there were responses from a number of others who either stated their refusal to engage or actually attacked me for being unqualified to have a questioning mind. I think I would enjoy going back to school to find the kind of thoughtful discourse I crave. Nuance was totally impossible for the black and white thinkers who refused to read my words as written.
Can narcissists change? No.
You should know
Will you admit Drumpf was a narcissist?
No anyone over 50 on the spectrum
No
@@katieschmid1030The TDS is strong in this one😂😂😂
I’m learning firsthand that watching these types of videos daily is really helpful in living with my narcissist. The specific topic doesn’t really even matter. It just helps to have some consistent reminder that I am, in fact, dealing with a narcissist. I’ll find myself walking into some trap, and now I’ll snap out of it like “oh yeah! Silly me, almost forgot who I’m talking to”. You can never let your guard down, and if you do, you have to forgive yourself.
Narcissists are really careless - reminds me of the line from the Great Gatsby: “They were careless people, Tom and Daisy - they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”
Exactly.
Like Harry & Megan.
I had to read that book for an English 101 class too once. I do remember reading near the end of that great work of fiction about the character named Jay Gatsby who ended up getting killed in a motor vehicle accident after a character by the name of Tom Buchanan; while he was cheating on his own wife Daisy; - found out that Daisy was cheating on him too with Jay. For sure there may have been another careless driver character involved in the demise of the character named Jay. Is that quote in your comment something in dialogue which tthe character Nick or his sweety the golfer said which I can't recall reading now too?
what @@francesbernard2445
Gosh missed that book, but I know it is a classic. I'm going to read it now.
Thank you for addressing all of this. I have found channels of self-aware narcissists and so many of the followers pity the narcissists and say "awww poor narc. They just had a bad childhood." I hate it. My narc guardian didnt feed me, she kicked my dad into a nursing home where he died alone so she could siphon our inheritance. She threw out all our stuff, renovated the house with my dads money and took over our childhood home. She had me write checks to herself out of an account my name was on lying to me. I, as a child, was used as a tool for my own undoing of my inheritance. She raged at us, didnt feed us, kept us in the basement of my childhood home. She laughed at me for crying when my best friend died. She had us in a cult and exorcised us. She said we had demons because we were bad kids. She drugged us with natural lithium from the church natropath that made my sister and i hallucinate. Then, i was kicked out of my childhood home because i confronted her for abuse. The cult pastors got involved and they didnt help. . At the end of the meeting when my guardian and i were alone i screamed at her because she was laughing at me crying because the pastors wouldnt help me or see her for what she was. She laughed and what she said sent a chill down my spine, "amanda. Now youre just like me."
These are just some highlights of my abuse. This is why i cant stomach when society wants to baby the narcissist. After 10 years of being away from her, i have empathy but its taken so much therapy and years of distance.
I think she was a malignant narcissist. Abusing orphans and widows and commiting estate fraud.. id think she has sociopathic traits.
Thanks for reading if youve made it this far.
So sorry for your experience. She does sound malignant and the things that she did are insane. My narc mom has bipolar 1 - and she truly believed that she is the reincarnation of a goddess, and is here to heal the world. She had a narcissistic worldview towards everyone - holier than thou attitude being the most, and the organisation then kicked her out.
My narc dad however, is malignant. I suffered from CSA by him from three to twelve. Interestingly, my narc mom’s “goddess era” (lol) began when the abuse ended.
I think that she knew all along, and needed some new delusion to fix this insanity of a life that our family was living.
Anyways, I hope that you’re doing okay - and ups and downs are common, but we can get through this because we went through some crazy ass stuff. Take care.!
@floatingmischief I'm so sorry. That sounds absolutely hellish and horrible 😕 I have a friend who has a mom who has NPD and bipolar and she sounds the same as your mom. I hope you have found healing. We definitely have gone through some super hard crap. ❤️ we are definitely resilient.
I can relate and empathize with your experience. 😢 Hope that you are doing much better and healing. It takes a long time, but even the seemingly smallest personal victory, day by day, is healing and strength. ❤❤
I am so sorry for your experience, I'm at a loss of words.....
How are you know? Could you successfully heal, as far as it is possible after such abuse?
Much 💕💕💕 to you, thank you for sharing that story!
Oh my goodness- “no one is supporting the person putting up with everything” ! I’m just going to sit with this- I feel that!!
We here on Dr Ramani's chat will always be here for each other. The group may morph with time and people who heal and no longer need it will happen. But there will always be more people needing this help. Thank you all for being the only place I had.❤
Promised therapy: My ex husband promised to go to therapy, was diagnosed with NPD and started behavioral therapy. He stated that there was nothing wrong with him and didn't need medication. I know his therapist was supposed to be on his side and he was. The behavior therapy mostly taught him skills to be a MASTER manipulator. He became so mean and abusive that I feared for my life and the life of my children. He NEVER stopped using drugs. I finally fled with my children and cut all ties.
Sorry, but the therapist doesn't have to be on the patient side. They need to be impartial, help someone to better themselves, not justifying their actions.
Unfortunately if they do their job right they will loose these types of clients, and implicit, money. So they choose to keep their clients coming at any cost.
May I ask how the divorce went? I watched a Ramani video with a divorce attorney and was saying it can takes years and upwards of $100k to get a divorce because the husband wants to make it as troubling as possible and be in control. Was yours that expensive and take that long? It worries me about leaving now.
BEHAVIOR is always intentional. These are my thoughts. Even and especially when they deny it. Repetition proves it. Your honesty and generosity are SO healing. TY.
That repetition piece, now that is key.
What do you do if you with a narcissist and they discard you and take your child aswell
I’m not sure behavior is always intentional, but “Repetition proves it “ 👍
“No, you didn’t feel that!” Said my sibling. My healing self responded, “ you don’t get to tell me how I feel. I am the only one who knows how and what I feel. You don’t get to dictate that.”
It was a significant moment for both of us. 😊 own your feelings and know they are valid and valuable!!!
if they get to decide what you are feeling or should be feeling tell them it works both ways after calling them out & after their reaction to that calling out..
The lack of empathy in my relationship is a struggle for me to understand. When I get sick my spouse complains that it's inconvenient for her because I get grumpy and do less dishes when I'm sick, rather than expressing sympathy for my misfortune and hoping I am not in too much discomfort. When I almost died on a mountain trip she responded "this is why I don't do mountain adventures" instead of "I'm glad you didn't die." If I had died, it's like it would have been a problem for her, the grieving widow, not a problem for me, the dead guy. Exhausting.
Get away. It doesn't get better 😕
OMG...I experience the same stuff all the time. I dish out foot rubs and back rubs etc almost everyday and get nothing in return. If I ask I get a "u so demanding " or a "I'm not feeling well". Everything that ever happens is always my fault. Always being told how I've ruined her life. I can't take it anymore.
@@johnsnow5239 this exactly what am going through
The lack of empathy in opportunistic bystanders who are witnessing horrible narcissitic abuse while for example feeling proud of how well they are living together while being faithful to one another before marriage really got to me and some other university students too while having to read that novel called, "The Great Gatsby." One of my astute and intelligent young class mate when asked said it was his opinion that in that novel no character was of good character including however not limited to the characters Nick and his athletic golfer girlfriend whats her name I cannot remember too.
...or offering to do the dishes. Making you a cup of tea/soup....
Dr.Ramani, you are the best and thank you for putting all this info.
Yes. Their hurt hurts. No matter what the back story.
I don't believe the "cluelessness" is real. I think it is just a strategy, but they are in fact very clue-aware... they just want what they want... ❤👍
Agreed. I know it’s a ploy with the ex. I ignore it and make him deal with the thing he’s trying to avoid.
I can only speak as an individual with BPD, and it actually scares me how spot on you are with the way you explain these disorders without actually having one yourself!!
It is called 'education'!
We don’t if she has one or not.
Have empathy from afar - (like on the other side of a giant brick ‘no contact’ wall).
There is no other way to be free from the impact of abuse.
Choose self first always💙
First i need to grow a backbone. Then i need to take the risk. I want out. I just do jot want to get too hurt.
@@theresesilvawalker8407
Take care of yourself.
This is not easy.
It gets much easier in time.
You know what you want 👏
You are not alone 🙏
Best wishes✨
Here's my why question: Why do people so often side with, or excuse the narcissist even when it's so obvious that the narcissist's behavior is inexcusable?
Because they are buddies with them or whatever the situation is. Basically playing favourites.
Another reason can be that they're too scared of repercussions when they don't side.
If you watch a court hearing, or some political debate, that can show you.
Because that person is guilty of similar behavior and attitudes. They recognize that when the narcissist is called out and immediately goes to their defense as a rationalization for their own destruction.
Because if they don't...
I agree. It is mind boggling.
To stay out of their line of fire.
So true. I always ask the question “ why” - even when others tell me not to ask this question. ❤
One of the BEST VIDEOS from Doctor Ramani that I have seen yet!
I tagged this one to listen to very often. It expains so many major things, and is a real gift.
Thank you, Doctor Ramani for this and all the work you do.
I know you know this, but this video and every video changes lives for the better
That quote at the end was 100% my dad. Furious little man. He said to me once, “if you were a boy, I’d hit you right now.” It’s not the same as being physically abused, but it’s still very damaging to know your father *wants* to beat you up.
I know small children who know better than to act the way the narcissists in my life do. Children have the capacity for empathy and are more responsive to the emotions of another than the narcissistic parents who raised them. It doesn't matter what made a narcissist who they are. They hurt and abuse others and either don't care about the pain they cause, or they enjoy it. Their own emotions matter to them. A malignant narcissist enjoys inflicting pain. A grandiose or self-righteous narcissist believes they know well enough to tell everyone around them what they should or shouldn't be doing while they do as they please. The world is their oyster, and we, their pawns.
They don’t care to hurt people they’re selfish they will never change.
Narcissists know, they know that they hurt you! After some especially heinous behavior, they will ask for forgiveness. The worst thing we can do is forgive them to their face. Why? It gives them permission to do it again, and worse! Get out asap when you safely can, and don't fall for the lies. You will get such a wacking you can't wrap your mind around it before it happens! ❤
That reminds me of my covert N mother asking or kinda demanding I forgive her after she made some blank excuse. I asked excuse what for. Didn't get no answer.
I guess she just wanted a kind of general pardon for everything, just to wash her own consciousness and start all over pretending again as nothing changed.
Later i guess she was upset by the fact she did expose she did many things that need an apology, even while refusing to adres them.
Weird stuff where I'dd have to forgive something unknown and then go on pretending nothing ever happened.
It made me think "wtf did you do" ... But I guess she didn't care about that, just about getting herself off the hook.
To me that was one of the big awakening moments where she exposed herself and was kinda helpful to me even if she intended something totally different that backfired on her. Of course she wasn't to blame, It was me who should just have forgiven her and I'm probably the narcissist because I didn't.
Yea, why don't I make an excuse for something she did but refuses to tell me what.
It always boggles my mind how narcissists try to turn everything around and inside out, like that have no ethics, no sense of truth or facts..
To me they seem adrift and lost in their own minds and don't know what is right or wrong, up or down. So they just chase their instinctive needs..
Dangerous people who can never be trusted.
Thank you for all of your videos. You have been. The reason for my ability to recover from narcissistic abuse. I can't thank you enough
Once you are an adult, a bad childhood is not an excuse for your behavior. You are responsible for getting help and changing. Nothing you went through is an excuse.
Also most people who experience actual trauma are relieved when it is done. Relieved to be safe. They don't choose to live inside that trauma as validation for bad behavior.
Love this beautiful source of wisdom to pieces.
Two years narc free as of yesterday. ❤
I can't always watch your videos, and at other times binge them. So sorry these comments come somewhat late and seem generic. I'm just thankful you're educating us on how to recognize and respond to these people, and how to protect ourselves and forgive ourselves. Thank you! ❣
Every time I asked narci why are you so angry all the time? (Answer) 👉🏽Because you, you you!
Or: no, I’m not angry at all, YOU are angry
( he would give me one of two answers depending on the day 🙄)
- I just Am!! ( and if you don't like it leave!)
- I'm not. I was in a GREAT mood til I got around you 👉👉👉😾
So, no matter what it was always my fault.
And after 9 years of it, I can happily say
" Was.". I'm free! 🎉🎊🎉🎊
Yup, blame shifting…not accountable…severe lack of self-awareness.
@@suzanne4396You're lucky
@@amarbyrd2520 Oh honey, it took me two years of trauma therapy ( which I'm still in )and losing 20 pounds from stress/ anxiety of being with him, calling the Suicide Hotline three times in those 9 years- because he'd pushed me to the brink of a ( near) mental breakdown. It wasn't luck. And I'd ghost him go no contact repeatedly - he'd always get a new text# and convince me of why I needed to see him.
But this last time stuck -- it Finally dawned on me 💡💡💡how he was destroying Me; and he was Never, Ever going to change. And the physical abuse was accelerating, I was afraid he'd truly kill me.
So I no longer care, I can't be hoovered ever again.
You'll reach that point, too. You have to value yourself and Love yourself.
I can honestly say I do, now.
I have been the victim of so many narcs, so different in their form of abuse from each other that I didn't realise they were all doing the same things to me for the same reasons for years
The line from Gone Girl brought me to tears. Exactly the experience for my kids with my ex-husband. He used therapy to stoke his ego.
One of the BEST❤ videos so far! I think I have group 2 partner and it messes with my head, but I see him trying (and seeing the bad behavior in others). You have such amazing insight and valuable, realistic expectations. Also descriptions and expectations are very validating. Even though no one can promise anything, the way they think, act and any progress toward change kind of calms my mind and explains why can seem self aware, try, sometimes fail and revert due to their own frustration and exhaustion.
I give up on the why, it really doesn’t matter. My mother is the most hateful horrible person you could ever imagine. It’s been like this as far as I can remember. I think she even resents me that she had to quit high school and having me wasn’t part of her plan. In 1956, she couldn’t dispose of me so instead she disposes me at her leisure. She’s kept my family ripped apart totally because of her mouth and actions.
Right out of the gate you described what I used to ask my narc sister. Why are you doing this? Can't we just have a conversation? She would hang up every time in a fit. Now it isn't an issue because I no longer engage. Sure is nice and peaceful.
I’m almost 34 and finally accepted over the last few months that I’ll never know most of the “whys”.
I’m not going to torture myself over my childhood anymore. I understand it wasn’t my fault - it’s not my fault now. I choose to forgive my dad for allowing the abuse, despite never receiving an apology. I know now, that I can choose to forgive for myself.
The "Gone Girl" quote - sadly totally relatable 💯
As they say the best apology is changed behaviour.
Ty so much for what u do to help all of us out here. I see a therapist and a psychiatrist, but u have taught me so much more then i would have gotten from any therapist, because u know what we are going thru, u know the answers to questions that we dont know how to ask. Questions that we dont even know should be asked.
And the first part of this video today was awesome.. i , being a mother of a narc 38 yr old daughter, have so much guilt because she has blamed me for all her bad behavior, f
or all her faults, everything that goes wrong with her life( and truthfully, she has a really decent life except the fact she treats everyone close to her like crap and its all our faults)
And then u said" its not our fault" thank you, thank you, thank you. I went running thru the house looking for my younger daughter , saying" see, its not my fault, "
And then i had her listen to the video. She also has suffered greatly at the hands of her older sister. But we are getting better, little by little.
Again, ty so much for doing what u do , Dr.Ramani. ❤
Thank you for explaining the concept of fake futuring. I recently got out of an emotionally abusive relationship with a alcoholic narcissist. I never considered the damage done until now after I've gotten away from them. I feel like I walked through the last year blind to who this person was, the more I realise just how much they used me 😢 I'm ruminating on them alot right now and I am trying so hard to work through it.
I've started to follow Dr Ramani 4 years ago, and 4 years after, I'm still finding life-saving content. Why I am still forging my career between covert narcs and group 4 narcissist persons (totally unaware narcissist person) that's another story, but still, huge thank you.
Doctor, would you not agree, that the best way to deal with these people (if you're not living with them), is to realize how they are, and just back off, and not bother with them?
Not a doctor, but yes, usually it is best to get away.
However, sometimes you CAN'T for example they are a neighbor and you are stuck living in your apartment for another year.
Or they are your kids dad, and they won't let you go.
"What do you mean?"
Well, said neighbor might pound on your door at all hours or peer into your window then shout at you to come out of your home. "Hey! I see you in there! Come out now!"
Growing up my dad would follow my mom and us kids in his car to macdonalds and watch us eat. He would then whine and beg my mom to buy him a burger (he couldn't afford it and my single mom couldn't either.
He response was like "I pay child support every month so you owe me a burger."
Growing up I never realized that such a thing was creepy, but it was.
Please note that my dad was not invited he just joined us on his own. He thought was allowed to come with us to macdonalds because we were his kids and it was a public place.
Narcissists are like this.
Sometimes no matter what you do, even if you divorce them, they will still come around.
@@specialtwice4975 Yes, my mom and dad divorced over 40 years ago. We lived in Florida. More than half the time, he was in Michigan, working at the Ford Plant, which was fine with her, me snd my sister. He didn't hit us, but he yelled at us quite a bit, even when he would come down for a weekend visit. Well, long story short, he lost his job at Ford, and came down permanently with us. Needless to say, that wasn't fun.
He was an idiot, and we got yelled at more, i believe, because he knew he was an idiot.
Sorry to ramble (text so much)
@@specialtwice4975Also, what do you mean, not a doctor, since this is, 'Doctor Ramani'
@kurthanke5788 - I think @thinkspecialtwice4975 meant that he/she/they themselves are not a doctor …. not that Dr. Ramani isn’t a doctor.
That's what we've done @kurt.
The mocking! Beyond words.
Narcissists are absolute waste of time! Do not waste your time, hoping wishing and waiting!😅
🎉❤your research in this lifesaving information needs to begin at birth! Thankyou, for all your guidance.
RUN forest RUN!!!!!!!
Genetics has a lot to do with narcissism I believe. There are plenty of ppl who were abused in children but still have empathy and never became narcissists
i agree
Yes. Autism has a lot to do with it. Like…. Almost everything to do with it. They don’t develop normatively past ego-centrism.
I’ve seen future faking turned into punishment. An acquaintance was told “Well, I was ready to ask you to marry me (marriage was a future plan) but YOU have been such an emotional demanding b*tch that now I won’t and it’s all YOUR fault.”
O my God!
I hope the friend replied "oh, Im so glad you've said so. Ive been worried for so long about how to tell you I no longer wished to marry you. Hope we can still be friends." Wink wink😁
Personally i think it's doubtful the narcissist even plans to realize the future fakes.
It's more something like a future fantasy they wish for to magically appear.
Kinda peter pan complex. buy we have to pay upfront.
But they won't hesitate to kind of blackmail by refusing the promised land.
As if they ever had the intention to begin with.
I think it's close to the guilt/shame trip thing narcissists do, only you get guilt tripped/shamed over something they promised and refuse you themselves.
It's really kinda sick.
😂
dodged that bullet!
For years I said the my group 4 hubby was “pernicious without being malicious.” That’s what Dr. Ramani means by the partner providing justification. I gave him pass after pass after pass for 20 years. It was finally al-anon that gave me the “courage to change” my marital status. Now he has dragged me into court to sell our house out from under me, and I’m finally ready to call out maliciousness for what it is.
They are evil. It’s not so difficult after you accept evil exists.
❤ out of all the videos watched and saved for future reference….this video is my favorite. Dr. Ramani communicates and empathicly shares this information with us is clear, understandable and quite frankly brilliant. Thank you! Thank you so much. 💞🤗
Thank you for your work and caring, Dr. Ramani. I have referred many in Canada to you. Yes, indeed, Why? And the other big question is " What have I done?" I once heard a NARC victim say: "please tell me what I have done, so I can apologise profusely and make it up to you.". Talk about putting your foot in the trap....
They try to make you have all of their quirks and appropriate good parts of your own accents. The earlier we know these things, the better. ❤ Thank you Doc. Ramani!
Thank you very much, Dr. Ramani. This is very helpful. You know what’s funny? I put this video on to help me cope when my narcissistic loved one who was being narcissistic, with the hope that this person might gain a little insight into his own behavior, and guess what? He got up & left the room. Exit stage left. It’s like this every single time. He’s even become violent over your videos - just the sound of the music at the start of your videos can set him off. I try to listen to them in secret for the most part, but sometimes I have hope that maybe - just maybe - he’ll think to himself, “Wow. I do that to her. That must really hurt her…” but nope! …
You want to know one of the worst parts about this - aside from being treated like I’m dead for days to weeks at a time? Is that every time he hurts me & I gather the courage to stand up for myself or attempt to talk with him about it, with the hope of growing our relationship, he becomes rageful, invalidates everything I say, turns everything around on me, and escalates into crazy making behavior that is so disturbing & confusing that the point of the conversation is lost & I’m hurt more than I was to begin with. Traumatizing, dehumanizing & demoralizing… 3 words I’ve come to know the meaning of, sadly. And then he stonewalls the hell out of me, denying me of basic human contact & common courtesy, starving me of affection, companionship, etc, as if punishing me, until I am so lonely & broken… I used to fall apart & then he’d rescue me. It didn’t take long for me to recognize a pattern of abuse had developed. It was often psychopathic. Total lack of empathy, even when I was in need of medical care & physically hurt…. But I’ve learned to not let him have that power over me anymore. Love does not destroy a person. Love should heal & help build people up. Not break them down. Not crush their spirit… Not destabilize every aspect of their existence… But thats the price I pay for attempting to build a healthy relationship with this person.
He used to adore me. I do not know who he has become. He’s like Jekyll & Hyde. I
am just something to make him feel good when he’s already feeling good. But when he’s feeling bad? Watch out. After years of trying to understand the WHY, I realized that he really doesn’t give a shit anymore. Only when it’s convenient to him. And so there is a different kind of loneliness now. Knowing that there is no hope in the conversation. And so I have so much love to give, I feel like it’s eating a hole inside me. I can’t afford to leave. I could tell him exactly what I need & it doesn’t matter to him most days. I can’t go on living under these circumstances. I am working so hard to build a life for myself & my kids. I’m tired of the quality of our lives being controlled by his unstable mood state & difficult personality. It’s exhausting! So much wasted time & energy when we should be enjoying life. God bless you Dr. Ramani. Thanks for all you do! Your videos have helped save me from the darkness so I can be a light for my family.
So correct, mind and heart conflict is like an inner thunderstorm. Im getting better just need to pop my heart aside. Thank you Dr Ramami.
Hi Dr. Ramani! If you see this I was wondering if you could talk about when people on the narcissistic scale use “therapy talk” to manipulate, blame shift, etc? I’ve seen a few therapists on tiktok talk about it, but a full video would be more helpful. Love your content!💛
Yea!!!!
Thank you 🙏 ❤
This was an excellent explanation, thank you! ❤
I wish Narcissism could be classified as a mental illness.
Even if narcissism is not "classified" as a mental illness in the psychiatric community, nor in the DSMV, I most definitely classify it that way - as a person who has dealt with some of them in our family.
It is. Look up Narcissistic Personality Disorder! It's in the DSM-V.
@@michelleduncan9965 NPD is in the DSM-V
@ser3385 one person actually pointed that out ages ago. Well worth the read, just like listening to a diagnosed narcissist. You get some pretty good information from them. There's channel's on here and on other social platforms. One guy I watched was was reading out some information from victims liked how they should just kill their unborn child etc. It was actually sick thinking how people just say stuff without thinking how much of an impact it has on someone
@@ser3385 So then, that means it is classified as a mental illness, or as a diagnosis?
you got me when you talked about impulsivity, because that´s what I had to deal a lot with, changing the dates , agreements without notice or like at the moment it self , and the trouble was she diagnosed her self with adhd, and used it as an excuse for not keeping to this , it drove me crazy
When I was 12 years old my mother asked me to do her housework. She promised to pay me. The first four weeks she did pay me. But stopped. When I asked her why, she screamed at me saying I should know she couldn’t afford to pay me. But she expected me to continue doing her housework. I had seven siblings so had a lot of work to do. I lost my childhood. I didn’t have time to have friends, hobbies, and was not even allowed to read until all the work was done. Anyway I vowed I’d never make promises I couldn’t be sure of keeping.
Desperate people pleasing, future faking parents are the worst. Mothers in particular
When I talk to my sister, she response "well, do you think you're making more of it than it is?" Why doesn't she ever believe what I'm saying or feeling is accurate. Why doesn't she value or validate my experience. When i tell her i don't care for how one SIL behaves, she might say "well, i think she does good things too". Yes, she does do good things. But, she's missing the point: this doesn't absolve her from her unhealthy behaviors. Thus, as I've been hurt my family does this mean it's okay, because they have done good things as well.
She is probably gaslighting you, invalidating you, so she can feel good, right in her own mind. If she can do that, it's makes you, your ideas, your feeling small and or unimportant. She may not even being aware she is doing this or would be horrified and deny it (that would make her the awful person and CANNOT HAPPEN - so please don't call her out..) She is probably knocking you down due to her deep insurities.
Is this fair? No way! I have one too like her. You shock her and create self-awareness, which may spark awareness & potential change. More likely, she will make your life worse & view this as a challenge as she will view this as "knocking her tower down," hurting her - she will retaliate and treat you worse.
If you do try to talk to her, you might point out her actions could appear as invalidating, a bad look, not very empathic, (fill in another description that she doesn't want to identify with.)
Some narricistic people LOVE to hurt you & get a reaction. If they think they are making themselves look bad, it is less personal to you and some will care how they come across.😮😮
If she is truly sincere, she may truly think she is helping you do reality testing - it could still be very damaging (beyond all DR.RAMANI videos see Middle Mid-Range Angel HG Tutor and Gaslighting Dr.Cloud). Some hate (what they view as) weakness or vulnerability and like to minimize, invalidate, gaslight, play devils advocate, make you out to be too sensitive, to get over it, move on, forget the past, etc.
Many times, too, they may want to get the conversation or attention back on them or what their interested in.
Hope that helps. You are very perceptive to recongognize her invalidation. Glad you are getting info and knowledge from DR.RAMANI and narricisim it has changed my life.. so grateful 🙏
If she admits that your words are true, then she has to do something about the situation. And it is inconvenient to her. If she pretends that you are always exagerrating, she doesn't have to make any decisions.
What helped me tremendously was when I accepted the fact that sometimes I wouldn't have all the answers
Very useful video..
I can relate to these things so much ...
Idk why people stay in Unhappy Unhealthy relationships. When anyone is hurting you in any way and you’ve taken all the steps possible to bring this to their attention so things can change; if & when they don’t It’s time to get out (in my opinion)
@@michele0324 I have been in all those circumstances myself with my children, I believed that once married that’s how it was. However, I went without food clothes whatever it took to save back a little money not much and with the help of police I got out not once but twice (2 different marriages Years apart) I was beaten, abused in Every sense of the word including sexually; I was followed over 1,200 miles away from my abuser who also had threatened my sons. Had to learn to walk again as I spent 6 1/2 years in a wheelchair. I’ve been free since 1999 & I Thank God every day that I’m a Survivor.
If an abuser is letting you go super easily…. They weren’t that bad. And if abuse doesn’t work to trauma bond and incapacitate you….. it wasn’t that bad, or it didn’t work as well as the abuser intended. It usually does work though.
@@nataliaalfonso2662 my ex husband tried to kill me more times than you & I have fingers and toes to count on I spent 6 1/2 years in a wheelchair had to learn to walk again & he Followed me over 1,200 miles to try some more so I think it’s safe to say it was BAD!! I’m a Lucky & Thankful Survivor.
Nice last name btw that’s my maiden name also same spelling even
My life is destroyed by groups one, three & four! Mother, aunts, neighbor(s). They see us, as disposable appliances, broken mirrors, or as punchimg bags. But they're more sadistic than that. Demonic. Good impersonation, but of course they're a thousand times worse. Oh no. They say ALL that and worse to sound rediculous!!!! And you're right a three year old is a thousand times more sophistocated. Ya, that book you quoted, all our holidays. You're wrong about one thing. Mom thinks it's okay to say, ALL those things and worse.
Regarding intentional harm: once, during a brief foray into couples counseling, I asked my husband whether he still found me sexually attractive. He spent a good 20-40 minutes obfuscating, which led me to believe that he must not have found me sexually attractive or he would’ve just said so. Years later, when I asked him about that incident, he confided to me that he had evaded the question that day because he felt backed against a wall and under attack by both the therapist and me. He was going to be damned if he was going to give me a straight answer. So yes, in that instance, he was behaving punitively. He knew he was hurting me in that moment, and he didn’t care.
My brother has had no contact with our NPD mother for over 10 years. He was the "Scapegoat". She keeps asking me..what did I do for him to cut me out? Does my NPD mom really know why? or is she really clueless?
My mom is number three.
She quickly pulled the plug on my brother after a stroke because she is “older and her children should be taking care of her not the other way around”. Since my brother was the one that was codependent with her she is now looking to me to take his place. I was the scapegoat.
I can’t handle it - the anxiety, etc.
I’m terrified of her and the abuse I’ve suffered at her hands for decades. I don’t know what to do.
Say no! Don’t t give any excuses that she can argue with her illogical reasoning. Just say no, withdraw from her and expect the shitstorm of flying monkeys. Put your sanity first, she never will. Good luck.
Please remove yourself out of her reach of contact
I am in the same boat! I feel for you. It is my father who is still that narcissist at his 76 or 75. He is more arrogant, selfish, self-centered, bad mouthed, always angry and full of hatered for everyone and thinks of himself above EVERYONE, I think he might secretly think he is God. my mom is thankfully alive but even then I feel sorry for her because her husband takes out his irrational anger and frustration on my mom. Taking my father to his doctor appointments and translate for him gives me huge anxiety even setting close to him gives my whole body ache and pain, my whole body, hands, legs, spirit, heart and mind and everything rejects him as a terribly negative and dark soul. I do not want him to die, but I just wish he goes to USA to his other kids to take care of him, however all my siblings stay away from him no one likes him. He used be like this in his youth as well, and now has turned into an even dark and disgusting old man. I love to respect and take care of seniors, but not my own father as he truly does not deserve any respect with all his transactional relationship with me, my mother, my siblings.
As a Scapegoat child myself, Get Out if you can. It only gets worst. I stayed to the very end of my Narcissistic mother and I wish I knew then what I know now! I have C-PTSD and my Anxiety is so much worst!
These parents eat their children "Psychology!" Think about that!
Look up "Does Narcissists get more dangerous with age."
I believe my NM gave my dad an overdose of Morphin when he was on Hospice. She said, "Dad will be gone Saturday" and he passed away that Saturday. She always said, "She didn't want him to last long!"
I pray you are safe and can be free to heal.❤
Get out. If you can, try. Even if you try doing it for a few days to see how you feel. I know the obligation as a child tears some people up but you have to preserve yourself. Your mother won’t.
My narcissistic husband of 30 years is extremely manipulative and controlling. He wanted out after he had taken what he wanted financially. He still keeps telling everyone that I am the ‘nasty’ person because I’ve accused him of being coercive and controlling.
He surely knows he has hurt me and continues to control and hurt me -now using my disabled daughter to try to control me and achieve his next goal
My narc parent is group 3. Zero self awareness and in fact will become abusive if you try to point out what they do.
The reason I still wonder if narcissists know they are narcissistic is because intentionally harming people and actually being unaware that they are harming others are two different things. Not to deny that toxic behaviour is toxic behavior though
My mother meeting my fiance parents for the first time, at there home. Built in pool, great people, having BBQ, I walk into pool and my mother says, "here comes the tidlewave!" And laughs, Noone else laughed. And some other derogatory statements..
How embarrassing, 😢how sad, how humiliated I felt. Thank you for this, I finally feel validated. Oh she didn't mean it, it was a joke!
Liz
It has been my experience with family, friends, bosses or co-workers that whenever a question starts with the word "why" it can never be answered fully or satisfactorily whether it is posed to a narcissist or any other person. I no longer answer the "why" questions.
Absolutely agree. You'd think they have suddenly acquired "alzheimers" all of a sudden. You ask in several different ways the same question, and they give different answers. You'd think there would be 1 answer for 1 problem....obviously not with them.
This resonates soo much with me future faked most of my married life 37 years, a few more weeks and I will be free tk you Dr Ramani I learned from you I was living with a Narcissist it set me free ❤
My partner is someone who recognizes these issues but also sometimes doesn’t get it… when recognizes he works on them… everything is nice and happy until it isn’t… and then again the apologies… it’s ok… happy times… another outburst… again apologies… becoming better… another outburst… sometimes I feel so drained that I go numb and don’t even have the energy to give a reaction… the process of making amends with a narcissist is like having to peel off layers of yourself to maintain the peace and calm in the relationship…
Future faking is the glue to the trauma bond
Actually, it is my younger sister, by one year who is the narcissist. She has not only said that she hates me, but has been physically abusive to me.
When she was 6 months old, and I, 19 months old, our mother went into a coma fom MS, for 6 months.
Our 2 grandmothers and aunt descended on our home, and apparently spoiled her rotten. I, on the other hand became invisible.
When our mother woke up, I apparently ran up to our mother, crying, "Mommy, Mommy". Our sister refused to go to her, and from that moment acted as though she hated both our mother, and me.
It didn't help that our father is a malignant narcissist, who also resented our mother after she woke up, and needed assistance.
My sister was physically abusive, and verbally abusive to our mother, who excused her by saying, " She didn't have a mother when she was 6 months old."
Everyone of my birthdays, my sister had a fit, whereas I was, after the initial making of the party, and buying of the cake, largely ignored, while my "poor sister" was coddled.
I remember her taking my presents, only to hear my paternal grandmother admonish me with, " Don't be selfish. Share and share alike."
Except the sharing only went in one direction.
To this day, that sister is verbally abusive, invalidating of me and my accomplishments, and gaslights.
Our mother died when I was 14, and she 13.
We have another sister who my Mom gave birth to, 2 years before she died, as well as an adopted brother who my parents adopted 17 days before my youngest sister was born.
For decades I tried, without success to form a relationship with that middle sister.
I finally went from Gray Rock to No Contact, until our brother died suddenly a year and a half ago.
He and our middle sister both lived in the same State, and I in another country, across the ocean.
Our brother's friends called me, to handle the arrangements, which I started until I realized that I would need that sister's assistance.
Our youngest sister lives far away, in another State.
Up until our brother's funeral, I endured that sister's abusive behavior as well as her gaslighting.
We are pretty much No Contact now.
I have basically accepted that she has always hated me, and always will, and there is nothing that I can say or do to not have her twist my behavior or words into something evil.
To tell you that even after almost 65 years that it doesn't hurt would be to lie.
I have accepted who she is, but that doesn't stop the hurt.
This was the best video ever
Today I had some really fun time laughing with my N. husband I have recently told I want him to go. Of course he doesn’t want to lose an easy nest & is acting better,I remembered Dr.RAMANI telling me about narcissism . The thought came to me that just because I was laughing with the clown 🤡 doesn’t mean I want Freddy Krueger to stay 😮😂!!!
Wow!!! So powerful.
I made the mistake once of asking my elderly covert narc mother WHY was she so unhappy? I asked in a low empathic whisper. OMG. She came unglued and started yelling and my dad ran in the room and she told him I was chewing her out. So my dad threw me out of the house.
Your dad was in the right, you were ruining your mom's day.
(Note: sarcasm. Everyday is THEIR day.)
My mother behaved this way even when i flew from Australia to visit family in UK. Can’t believe I tried more than once with my family of origin. Urrrgh.
I was in a relationship with a person in group #4 and I broke up with him and afterwards he stalked me and harassed me for several months. I finally got the justice system involved and now I have a protection order. Talk about difficult people!
Yellow rocking I think is the best way to go with separating then divorcing. Esp when you have to coparent and go through mediation. Be wise and warm towards them so they can me more agreeable in court. My case didn’t go to trial and this is what I did.
The Narc, that I dated, definitely knew he was future faking! Recently, he did this to get me to stop asking about scheduling a trip together (any trip!). He knew I was excited about getting my new passport and wanted to go on a little getaway. He would say "We will go somewhere". But then when I would throw out some tropical destinations, I would get no response OR one time he told me to stop bothering him. Bothering him!!... I mentioned a places and just wanted to see what he thought. Always a pleasure to deal with a Narc.
One evening, I arrived at his house and he had his expired, old passport sitting on the counter. I immediately thought... Here we go... more mind games! I didn't care to play along so I didn't say anything about it. He started talking about the old passport saying "I received my new one but I guess they let us keep our old one....blah, blah, blah.." At one point, he throws in..."I should go to the Bahamas". Not "We" but "I". Unhuman Ass!
Regarding future faking. I don’t believe my group 4 husband was ever lying. I think he was 100% sincere about sexual intimacy, about having children, about having a beautiful wedding, and about buying the house of my dreams. But in each instance, when the moment of truth arrived, he deprived me, with seemingly no awareness that he was future faking, and with no awareness, consideration, or concern regarding the extent to which he was in that moment literally ruining my life.
He was lying.
You reminded me of my very narcissistic cousin who once long ago complained to me how she didnt understand why people didnt get along with her because-as she thought- she was too authoritarian. Well she said that with a prideful look i remember🫤now I know that she is just a narcissist. You will hear soo many bizarre stories from them about themselves youll almost feel like laughing outloud later.
Yep u nailed it every word
My “group 4” husband-from whom I am now getting divorced-has been in “Lacanian psychoanalysis” for over 10 years. And he really thinks it has done him a lot of good. But I think what it has done is given him tools for accepting who and what he is and permission to keep doing what he’s doing without thinking that he needs to change at all. It’s making him more secure and more comfortable in his group 4 behaviors. He rebuffed any attempt on my part to get us into couples counseling, and he rebuffed my attempt to get us into a 12 step program for couples, and ultimately I initiated the separation. After 20 years! 🤷🏻♂️
These 5 questions go up there with expecting a narcissistic abusive person to tell the truth. As much as we want them to, we can't expect it.
When I stop to think about it, the very few times my ex narc WENT to therapy, I now believe that, instead of working on the narcissism, he actually used the therapy as a source of SUPPLY.
IT WAS AFTER HE STARTED THERAPY that he decided he should start hiding money from me. I thought it was curious that his decision to stop putting money into our joint account came AFTER he started therapy. The gas lighting, lying and inappropriate behaviors only escalated after that (until the therapist stopped seeing him). In any case, the behaviors and shady behavior just continued to escalate . . . .until the inevitable.
Interesting. Would love Dr. Ramani’s thoughts on that trajectory. . . never really thought about it that deeply until now. Too busy enjoying my hard won peace and semblance of financial order and freedom instead of the CHAOS and disorder I lived in for years.
This is video is right on time for me…..I thought I met someone new. I thought my narc ex would be my last encounter with them on a love level. I dated narc style 1 for years, he’s what allowed me to know what a narcissist truly is. Then now I’m having to say bye to my narc of just under 2 years who I’m thinking is a narcissist style 2. Once you get into a heated discussion that isn’t going his way he gets verbally disrespectful, I’m a cool pisean woman but I wait fora hot minute before I verbally retaliate. I’m not an easy push over and after my first experience I’m not leaving room for narc no2 to think I’m a supply for him. Imagine 2 of my narcs laughing in the doorway as narc1 came to pick up his 8yr daughter. Story time loading
I feel sorry for the narcissistic people in that they mostly won't be able to form and keep good relationships with people, and have very very strained relationships or are estranged from family😔 When it is family, it is very very hard 😔
That explains a lot!
Dr Ramani, You talk about different narcissistic individuals (i.e. malignant, grandiose, communal, vulnerable, self righteous). Can you explain/define the differences please?
The description of the 4th group (at 21:15) makes me think of my mother... except she'd be a lower grade narc than this description. She has some communal narc traits also, but seems very insightless regarding her personal relationships and she is sort of a psychotherapy-addict, like she wants to figure it out, but as far as I can tell, she mostly uses therapy for confirmation of how much of a victim she is... do you think that description makes sense?
Dr you have described my ex narc to a T. Raging future faking etc etc etc. I'm glad she dumped me although it hurt so much. She is 66 so no changing her😢😢😢
Hi Dr. It has occurred to me that if 20 percent of all people in the world fall into each one of four types of narcs, then what we actually are dealing with is a total of 80 percent of us are narcs. That would be a larger perspective as to just exactly why life is so intensely difficult at this time in history for the remaining 20 percent who possess empathy. We simply run headlong into one after another of these in the 80 percent group who are hopelessly mentally ill who are the successful “norm” in society. ❤
What is the age cut off (if any) after which developing narcissism is not possible?
Is it possible to be a mix of 3 and 4? My mother ticks off all the markers for 3 and some for 4. My brother is also 3, I believe. He checks most of those boxes.
If you asked him more than one question ...let's say 3 questions ...about a subject of conversation, he would annoyingly say "Stop peppering me with questions!" Peppering!! I asked a few questions. That is peppering?!? I am inquisitive and analytical...I ask questions. I have never dated someone who had a problem with it. One time, we ordered Thai Food. Unfortunately, the containers were not labeled. I ordered panang and he had red curry. I opened the containers and I was looking at them. I then asked a few questions about how are we going to determine which one was which (some ingredients would be different). More like talking out loud, rhetorical type questions. He got annoyed and gave me a horrible look and told me to stop asking questions. I have story upon story of the craziness that it is to deal with a Narc.
😊❤😽 love the vids .. side note.... Can you include LUNA😽 in some of your videos(just to make them more fun),, just a suggestion ⁉️💕🌹🌺
@11:16 Dr Ramani speaks directly to Melania Trump
I am going non contact with my sisters. Sometimes I know I have vulnerable narcissistic traits, but won’t know my part until I get away from my family of origin. I don’t know if they are narcissistic but because of our late narcissistic mom, it is very difficult to tell what is going on. I know I don’t want to be the person I am when I’m around them.