Prelates Deep Dive for Economy!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- The Prelates of the Holy Roman Empire add a lot of economic as well as military mechanics to the civilization in Age of Empires IV - but how good are Prelates at boosting your economy? Let's find out!
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#AgeofEmpires4 #Prelates #HolyRomanEmpire
0:00 - Intro
0:23 - Section I: Stats & Mechanics
1:42 - Section II: Inspiration Mechanics
2:42 - Section III: Effects on Gather Rates
6:37 - Section IV: The Aachen Chapel & Prelates
7:44 - Section V: Rules of Thumb
8:45 - Conclusion - เกม
![Siberian Native Council is OVERPOWERED - But NOBODY KNOWS why! [No Exploits] #eu4](/img/n.gif)
You've voted for Prelates in the last poll, so here's the economy deep dive on them! I will be working on their military utility next, so stay tuned for the next video. As always, keep your ideas and feedback coming - and thank you for stopping by once more!
Aachen Chapel also leaves the lingering 30 second inspiration after villagers leave radius. This is really useful for the chapel radius to just barely touch resource dropoff edges.
That could work with mining camps or berries for sure, but not woodlines as you'll chop further away. :)
@@AgeofNoob It works great with mills with farms too! Lumber camps are the only ones that don't really benefit as a result of receding woodlines
@@AgeofNoob It would be interessting to know, at what distance it is better to build new lumber camp closer to the moving woodline, or to let wood workers come back to the original lumber camp within the AC's radius to refresh the buff
This is exactly the information I needed how to handle the prelate production. Every time I just produced them by gut feeling. As someone who likes to play HRE but not mastering them this really helps out. Thanks AoN and keep on!
BTW: At 2:36 I had to chuckle
The man just wanted some inspiration :(
Now that i am almsot first, let me take this opportunity to tell you that i love your videos! Thanks for all the hard work you put in
You're welcome Leonel - glad you're enjoying the content!
I'm loving your content AON, I've been a long time Spirit of the law follower, and your videos give me the same vibe and in depth analyses as his content, easily on par for quality, thanks for the great quality content.
Thank you very much Scott! Hope to see you around for years to come.
@@AgeofNoob If you don't mind me making a suggestion for the economy video's, I think it would be great to get a brief comparison to a "standard" civ's collection (say chinese or mongol collection rate) and maybe a comparison to other civs that have similar eco bonuses, like english farms next to a mill or rus with the highest bounty vs HRE that are inspired.
I hope that makes sense! i'll still be watching even if you don't go down that route though.
@@scottroberts3158 Once I go through each unique economy video, I suppose I can put them together to rank them in their effectiveness. :)
@@AgeofNoob That would be great!
@@AgeofNoob *when you convince AON to make more content :D*
that stronghold music in the intro brought back alot of memories :D
Stronghold OST
That first ost (Stronghold)... nostalgic
Stronghold
1:32 You can toggle automatic healing off, which then makes prelates buff units automatically, only. Not that I'm exactly a fan of it, but it's possible.
And I have a few questions. How does wheelbarrow impacts all these numbers? It's a tech to counter travel time, and I believe it scales even harder with HRE. The second question is the impact of Devoutness (castle age unique tech) on the economy? Just a mere 10% gather rate across the board (which is obviously nice) or is there something more to it?
Yes, but that means we'll then have to manually heal, which is worse imo. That said, I'm pretty sure healing a unit is more important than inspiring, but I'll have to test that out first to confirm. I haven't tested Wheelbarrow with the Prelates specifically, but I did try fully upgrading (including Wheelbarrow of course). The results were more or less the same with what I've mentioned in the video, so I didn't bother showing it.
And ah, I forgot to test Devoutness - that's my bad! That said, a small 10% will still help for sure, but it won't change the 6 to 1 rule. Maybe you can be a tad more aggressive and go 5 to 1 when you have it researched. I'll try to make a standalone video on this to test payback times and when/if you should pick it up.
@@AgeofNoob cant you split to have like 5 prelates healing while 5 inspire the army?
@@zaganim3813 You could, but it's still not efficient - sometimes you'd need all of them healing or vice-versa. There are workarounds, but the point is that the flexibility is missing. :)
1:18 Rus warrior monks normally cost 40 food and 200 gold but their cost is reduced by 50% to 20 food and 100 gold when using the abbey of the trinity landmark.
+1
Stronghold crusader music at the end 💕
Stronghold OST
I guess their name is fitting. Prelates. You only use them for economy upto pre late medieval age and then switch to using them offensively.
I loved this! As a HRA main this was really helpful, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Great Video! Can't wait for the military vid, anytime i use prelates in my army they always default standing at the very back and dont end up healing or buffing anyone unless i specifically move them, would love to find a way to default prelates in the middle of the army so they can be more effective!!
Thanks for the promo :-) also, i have noticed the other day that the prelate is still slightly bugged.
Np! Hmm, I didn't run into any bugs in all of my testing. Do you know what triggered yours?
Great video. Just a note that castle age allows devoutness upgrade for inspiration that makes them gather 10 percent faster. Not sure if this has any effect on the prelate per 6 villager rule as it's only 10 percent.
Thanks! And it shouldn't - you can still go for 5 for 1 but it'll be a longer payback time + the payback time of the Monastery and the technology itself. So the general rule of 6 should still stand.
stronghold memories kicking in! The granary is empty, Sire!
Wood needed.
This is some great needed content to get better at the game with objective knowledge. Thanks a lot for your hard work which elevates us all :)
Glad to help! :)
Love your vids, very helpful, keep it up
xoxo
Thank you! Will do!
Very cool! Thank you!
This was great! thank you.
Np!
One thing you forgot to mention is that inspiration buff stacks additively with gathering speed tech therefore it falls off in relative terms in the late game i.e with no gathering techs but with wheelbarrow 40% boost from inspiration on farmers translates into roughly 35% increased income (which is like having 35% more farmers). However with all gathering techs the inspiration on farmers increases their income by ~20% (slightly less than 25% with the monastery upgrade). Of course the figure would be worse on Wood and better on gold/stone (due to less walking but also because nobody researches cupellation)
And I thought that the rule of 40% gathering speed was applied and that the prelate had to be drawn every +5 villagers (6-13-21...).
Another well made video AoN!
Thanks again!
nice music in the end :)
Stronghold OST
That's so cool, although it means that I'm underproducing prelates by a significant amount. Cool to know that I should build roughly every 6, although I doubt I'll actually need 6 vils on gold. At least I know it's always worth to add to 5-6 vils not inspired even with TC time
You'll definitely have more than 6 on food or wood at some point - or if you can have a prelate between sheep villagers and gold if it's closeby.
Do remember tho that early in the game the 100 gold cost isn't always that easy to justify. It's rare to see HRE players go over 5 prelates in a game, and if they do, it's usually to get relics and not necessarily for economic benefit. But the buff is super good, so just be sure to use it well :D
very inspiring video
Great video! Really specific question:
If you have a gold vein which is out of range of your aachen chapel, but build your gold mine 2 tiles away so that your vils get inspired when they drop off gold, is that more efficient than placing the goldmine directly next to the gold vein?
This is an interesting one - I'd have to test this to be sure, but I'd wager than 1 tile walking distance should be fine. 2+ tiles shouldn't be worth it I think. Again, I'd have to test to confirm.
you should do a video on when or if it is worth while to refresh a lumber camp that is on the edge of the influence zone of a chapel.
Interesting knowledge I think I might get this.
Great video! I think it would be better if you also test with the devoutness upgrade researched. It won’t change the conclusion much but I’m curious to see the data.
Thanks! I might make a standalone video about whether or not Devoutness is worth it in the future. :)
It should be a no brainier based on numbers. It’s not expensive while affecting all resources.
One thing I've been wondering is refreshing lumber camps while under the Aachen chapel. Say you Aachen only hits the first row of trees. When you reach the third or forgot row, is it worth it to refresh the lumber camp and lose the Aachen buff? Or it the inspired buff enough to counter the walking time
It's a tricky one - I'd guess that the third row of trees would be way too much walk time. You're better off to just train a prelate and send it to a refreshed lumbercamp instead.
2:34 that poor man.
F for the uninspired villager
thank you for the explaining of the prelate mechanics but can you also have a look at gather bonus rates of vills with wheelbarrow and post imp villagers? since further improved carry capacity and gather speed should make a huge impact and im not even sure if in post imp prelates are even worth it to build, atleast for economy
Thanks for the video, Noob!
I was curious whether there is enough to explore about the Chinese Imperial Official for a video. Or is it actually a straight +20% increase to income no matter what?
I will explore Imperial Officials soon as well!
Did I hear Stronghold Crusader intro ? :D
Indeed :D Greetings sire, the desert awaits you!
The tech that improves inspiration (called Devoutness: increases the inspiration buff from 40% to 50%) is not bad from an economic point of view (although it feels meh and pays quite slowly) but it is more attractive from a population efficiency's perspective. So even though 10% feels minor the impact on population efficiency is less minor (Intuition: when we increase an income by say 20% while the cost is fixed the net income increases by more than 20%. Here the cost is fixed at 1 population for the prelate but we are increaseing the gain in "effective villager count" through the tech.
So with an ideal chapel with 40 farms and full gathering tech one is gaining roughly 20% extra villagers so 8 (net population gain 8-1=7) with Devoutness tech thus would be 25% extra vills so net gain =10-1=9.
Of course here I speak of "extra villagers" since the benchmark is having no eco bonus. However lot of civs have gathering buffs therefore one should compare to them. So we can't really say the Abbasids have 120 vills but HRE can afford to get less with the same income. Same for Chinese, English... It is like I took French as a benchmark as they have no bonuses.
Do a video on if we should choose the Mongolian Deer Stone landmark, or the Market Landmark
You make so nice Videos
Thanks Black!
will the prelate deep dive for military come?
just wondering a bit
still amazing video, even I don't own the game xD
you forgot about upgrade 10%inspired buff in monastery and how much its affect with %
The prelate inspires every 4 seconds (cd + animation..) thus inspiring 7.5 villagers (30/4l. In practice this means you will 8 vills inspired for 2 seconds followed by 2 seconds in which only 7 are inspired then 8 for 2s and so on (obviously it s not the same guy who is uninspired). This can be easily verified by testing in-game (which I ve already done myself)
And this is why it is easier to test with a chapel and get rid of this kind of noise
Interesting. But what you are suggesting would mean ~ 16 prelates and 100 villagers in endgame, assuming for a minute we dont have Chapel. If we have Chapel - which is currently used in 99% of games tbh - that will maybe go down to 13 prelates and 100 villagers. However, I have never seen that many prelates walking around in any games. Is it that people dont know this, or too much micro, or what is the reason? Would have been interesting to hear your opinion and how many you actually recommend (doesnt have to be perfect, but a rule of thumb).
Well, in the very late game, you should have 1 prelate for every 8 villagers, and not 6. So, let's say that, optimially, you need 100 villagers in the late game. You'd be better off with 89 villagers and 11 prelates instead. :)
At the very least, you'll need prelates for each mill with 8 farms around, assuming other resources begin to be depleted or woodlines too scarce, etc.
Prelates goes brrtttttttt
Real question? Do traders get inspired like villagers? Cause the Achen chapel can be used for traders and you can go for the barracks landmark?
No, I tested inspiring Traders, and they do not get affected. :)
@@AgeofNoob thanks, I think thats what the next buff should be for HRE
Delhi with the age 2 landmark can make scholars for 75 golf btw
Needs more Holy Roman Empire aesthetics like for MAA's
Wouldn't it be smarter to train one prelate for each drop off point(every 6 villagers) and then train one every 8, since you're not getting more eco from having 2 prelates near less than 9 villagers?
Exactly - you initially add one per 6, but you eventually should have one per 8 towards the late game when you stop making villagers and focus on military.
Can you please do a research into monk technology? I don’t see the pros get the monk tech except playing Dehli of course. Are they really not worth it?
Aachen pronounciation *chefs kiss*
Approved by a German? :D
@@AgeofNoob more than approved :D
Wouldn't a landmark that inspires your army be cool?
I think it'd be too OP :D
The fact you pointed out that a prelate can only inspire up to 8 villagers is pretty important! This is EACH prelate, right? So 2 prelates can inspire 16 villagers in total? Is there a maximum number of inspired villagers in total?
Can we export the graphics of AOE4 like the prelate into AOE2DE?
I have a noob question. Is there any situation that you DON’T choose de Aachen Chapel? I think is the best option in every situation.
TheViper went for the Meinwork Landmark the other day. Landmarks overall will likely get some tweaks at some point - but the Aachen Chapel seems to be the stronger one overall.
Can they inspire your allies?
Nop
How did you pronounce "imam" in the correct way? >_> No one else does it
I do speak Arabic fluently as well :)
Warrior monk in the pic u show cost way more then 150 gold
If you know anything about the Catholic Church prelates costing gold is not ironic xD
I didn't want to open that can of worms :D
The math doesn't seem to check out with your observations. You observed 8 villagers gather +28% on sheep when inspired. So 6 villagers should also gain about 28% when inspired which would be the equivalent of 1.28 x 6 = 7.68 villagers. That's 0.68 more than a 7th uninspired villager, which is only 9.7% greater. Not 19% as stated.
Unfortunately, you cannot do straight math to calculate these things, or you'll get results that are far off from the practical game. For example, villagers, in theory, collect 10 food per 13.33 seconds. That's roughly 45 food per minute. But walking, pathing, and other mechanics lower that number. When you add the Sheep's RNG to it, you can get slightly higher or lower numbers. Those tests that you saw were of different instances - and, although I pre-killed the sheep to minimize the variance, there definitely will still be some margin of error.
Hence, if you do an in-game test and get a vastly different result than the video, then I'm happy to post a correction. Otherwise, straight math doesn't reflect the real game. You can see how different the improvements are for different resources even though the inspiration is the same +40%; but in-game mechanics and RNG skew the numbers as high as almost 10%.
In an ideal world, I'd have the time to test each scenario out 10 times over for over 10 minutes each, take the averages for each scenario, and run the calculations on those numbers to minimize any deviation. However, that's just time I do not have, as just making this short 9 minute video alone takes tens of hours to make. The small margin of error in the directional numbers here won't change the rule of thumb regardless, which is 6 to 8 villagers per prelate that players should adhere to.
@@AgeofNoob If 6 inspired villagers are really doing 119% of the work of 7, then that means they're doing 139% the work of 6. I don't think it is really that close to the maximum 140%. Your 128% finding with 8 vils was far more realistic.
you speak arabic you said that imam too well :D
Indeed, I do speak Arabic :)
Happy to hear that i would like to help you in your upcomming videos
بالتوفيق يا اخويا ❤
@@Mody9513 Shukran :)
first
**gives out free inspiration for 30 seconds**
hello, tried to understand your video. I had some trouble with it. it is great don't get me wrong, but you speak really fucking fast. I watched several videos from you and seriously slow down. You have kind of an accent, don't know where you are from but it is hard to understand you so fast.
I watched your video and I am asking myself if I got 80 villager, should I get 10 prelat to inspire them all? I understood each 6 villagers you have to get a prelate or 8 villagers. I am not sure once againt you give to much information too fast and in consequence, we can not focus on what is really important.
the real question is if you have 80 + villagers, why you don't explain how to micro them during the game? area of effect works for 4 tiles ok, but a prelat should be on hold position near the villagers he have to inspired.
is it really duable to micro all those prelat during a game?? you see your videos is great but you are missing a lot of questions people ask themself
When can we get the military follow up? @ageofnoob
Hey there-long time view, first time caller.
I noticed something unexpected about build times with the help of the AOE$ Quick Sheet. It turns out that the 2nd-Nth villager has about one third the "build power" (HP/s per vill) as the first villager. I expected each villager's efficiency to be less than the last, but that's not the case. It only appears that way because of observations like H:3-H:24 on this sheet. In fact this gradual decrease is due to the average build power per vill lowering as you add more 1/3 BP vill into the mix, and you let them work on the building for less time.
If you find this intriguing, please check out the quick spreadsheet I made to confirm this: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IGCv9Y8aYAmopNGXC44ND5Wdixd8DuIMTJWU86hgCo4/edit#gid=0
Thanks again for all your hard work on making this information available to the community!
(Quick Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LG0We2pTFZsbFm_k1SKLix8gxSq_9n5R_Ic3G2tVzBg/edit#gid=2020467381)
Thanks for the links mate - I'll check these out and might use them if I make a video about building rates. Cheers. :)