I am planning to use polls more frequently to make videos about topics you folks want to watch - and based on the poll conducted yesterday, you folks voted for the next video to be about the Prelates! In the meantime, hope you enjoy this video and not make your miners walk too long! :)
Could you, at some point, make a vídeo about the chinese granary? Specially whatever or not is It better to stack their auras or spread them as mutch as possible?
Yup sure, i have voted for that. Voting system is amazing, we get to choose 🤗.. and you make video for us, that's great.. nice job age of noob brother. You always amaze me ⛄
A potential reason for having a ridiculous number of Villagers on 1 mine is to clean it out as fast as possible so that you can abandon the area and not have to have troops stationed there to protect it once you've finished it off. This way, your opponent can't get it after you have left.
Would like to see a huge video about food overall. I guess a lot of people would really appreciate that, also considering the change to fish gather efficiency
I believe SOTL covered farming in a previous video, but I will definitely circle back on food for sure. There's a lot to unpack there with many changes done in the recent patches for sure!
The problem is that you don’t account one more thing: taking the time of the villager to build additional mining camp - while he could have used this time to mine. Maybe building another camp takes so much time to construct it to be efficient
Even though I don't explicitly mention construction time, it is included in the rules of thumb. Building a mining camp with 15 villagers almost takes no time (or building with 1 while 14 continue mining), so its impact is minimal. :)
You can account for this yourself - vills take 20s to build it so with no upgrades that is 13 gold worth of gather time with one vill. Less for Chinese and wood efficiency better for French, natch.
@@AgeofNoob ok, thanks. Asked just to be sure. Anyway, most of those statistics don't help too much since a player has thousands of things to look at simultaneously. I usually don't have time to remake lumber camps)
All of the impacts are minimal and these dynamics although interesting won’t really account for a win or loss.. As per my experience, losing or winning a game comes from scouting and adapting your strategy at a more macro level.. not having 3mining camps per vein.. The facts and numbers presented may be interesting but entirely useless for the gameplay itself.
Great stats, as always! Thank you for your work. Excited for the Food Techs soon (if not already done by you). I also wanted to point out how much worse the additional mining camps may be when you factor in the wood cost (pretty obvious) but even more so the idle time the villager(s) are using to create them.
Hello Age of Noob. Been loving your aoe4 videos, its definitely some of the highest quality for the game on youtube. That being said, I personally didn't like one thing about the statistics in economy videos and its that you generally compare no upgrades values to full upgrades or WB+1st upgrade values while honestly I would say having wheelbarrow is by large a more common case than any other combination of upgrades and it would be helpful to have stats on just WB. I hope you dont mind the critique, its really a small thing on 2 great videos.
Glad you like them Leandro - and that's fair enough :) The reason why I didn't do solo Wheelbarrow is because the effects are so small (on relatively efficient camps) that it wasn't worth mentioning, but I suppose I can mention that quickly moving forward.
Yeah, good video, I always add 2nd or even 3rd mining camp if I see too much vilagers from other sides but now with this numbers I will do it better. Thanks
To 50/max miners that fit, I can think of scenario when it would be viable. Lets say on gold that is in the middle or close to enemy taking it before enemy can is important factor, especially if you know that you will not be able to hold that area for very long.
Not really. I believe fully imperial age upgraded 20 miners can finish a vein in around 8 mins if I remember correctly. Since the payback time is a max of 2 minutes after 15+ miners, this isn't an issue.
Can you make a vid on the new buffed trebs and the English shattering projectiles, and compare those to mangonels? Especially if they are English trebs, you might be able to use those as extra long range mangos and bombards combined in one, but I would like to know how they compare.
I will explore siege further for sure, but I'm waiting for another patch or two for siege to settle in.. It's definitely something that'll get tweaked often and quite soon
Two things, you mention random pathing inefficiency if you could let us know (even in the description) how many times you ran a test at a certain villager size this would account for the inefficiency and is important info for us to know the accuracy of your data (also those inefficiencies should dissipate if you take enough samples). Secondly, adding error values could be helpful so we can know the validity. I'm not sure how much you know about error analysis but there are simple ways to estimate the error based on the average deviations that would add work for you I'm aware but help make your overall work much more credible and trustworthy. Feel free to let me know if you want to chat more about it.
Both of your points are completely valid and something that I would definitely do if I had more time - but I don't unfortunately. Videos like these take tens of hours to make, and running multipl tests would add a whole lot more to that time. In an ideal world, I'd run the tests 10 times and average it out to get rid of any issues, but I run the test only once (or twice /three times if I feel like something really went wrong or villagers behaved exceptionally worse). Hence, is the data perfect? No. But will it affect the rules of thumb? Highly unlikely, because the margin of error is really tiny (as I observe the villagers collecting the resources). Hope this helps. :)
@@AgeofNoob I understand and I think it should really be on the road map of things to add as your channel expands. Alternatively though, if you have a second computer or laptop you could run two experiments simultaneously that way you half the time (of doing two experiments) and still have a second example to compare values and make sure they aren't wildly different. I do love the work your are doing though and am aware it's easy to criticize from afar.
Also interesting to know would how this changes as chinese with an imperial official on gold. Would it still bring you more gold or be worth the additional mining camps?
@5:10 you as why the improvements are better for 20 vils with upgrades then chalk it up to RNG. I dont believe thats the case, I think at 20+ vils the walk distance is the max for testing, and you are seeing the 15% movement speed from WB make an impact on the results.
Thanks for the video, Noob! I had a question- is it ever worth it to build a second mining camp if you’re China and you can only supervise the first one with your imperial official?
No problem :) In theory, yes, as villager efficiency drop-off will be the same regardless, even if the Imperial Official's interaction with the buildings themselves aren't as favorable.
What if you place the two mining camps opposite to each other on either side of the gold deposit? Is it better or worse than in the other configuration?
You should look a little bit deeper into the civs maybe some exclusions oder speziel thinks to the topics. The chinese for exampel should never build more than 1 camp if they use an offical to boost the camp. At least i think it should be this way^^
If you're referring to Steppe Redoubt, then making additional mining camps won't make sense for sure. The +50% is too much, and would offset any inefficiency caused by the walk time.
Today I watched a pro game with HRE and 3 relics. 20 vils on Gold wo upgrades is 650 per min. 3 relics for HRE is 900 mer min???? This alone makes the game questionable and if u add mango brokenness I'm not sure how balanced this game is at all
While I really like your videos, it's kinda pointless to do efficiency videos as long as Microsoft hasn't fixed the uncountable game breaking bugs such as animation cancelling etc.
and what does animation cancelling have a lick to do with economy? More eco = more units, whatever you are able to do or not do with those units...more is more.
I do my best to cover economy videos for mechanics that aren't bugged (for example, I avoided Prelates and Fish because we all knew that they were going to be patched out soon). That said, animation cancelling doesn't affect the economy at all, so this video will be useful as long as they do not change the base gather rates, which is extremely unlikely. :)
I am planning to use polls more frequently to make videos about topics you folks want to watch - and based on the poll conducted yesterday, you folks voted for the next video to be about the Prelates! In the meantime, hope you enjoy this video and not make your miners walk too long! :)
Could you, at some point, make a vídeo about the chinese granary? Specially whatever or not is It better to stack their auras or spread them as mutch as possible?
Yup sure, i have voted for that. Voting system is amazing, we get to choose 🤗.. and you make video for us, that's great.. nice job age of noob brother. You always amaze me ⛄
A potential reason for having a ridiculous number of Villagers on 1 mine is to clean it out as fast as possible so that you can abandon the area and not have to have troops stationed there to protect it once you've finished it off. This way, your opponent can't get it after you have left.
I was thought the same thing.
Would like to see a huge video about food overall. I guess a lot of people would really appreciate that, also considering the change to fish gather efficiency
I believe SOTL covered farming in a previous video, but I will definitely circle back on food for sure. There's a lot to unpack there with many changes done in the recent patches for sure!
Have to say really enjoy the way you present data. Very clean and nicely done. Thanks for your work : )
My pleasure!
Thanks for the awesome vids! Very informative and it’s great that you’re doing these vids so often with how long they must take to make
No problem - glad you're enjoying the content, and more on the way! :)
The problem is that you don’t account one more thing: taking the time of the villager to build additional mining camp - while he could have used this time to mine. Maybe building another camp takes so much time to construct it to be efficient
Even though I don't explicitly mention construction time, it is included in the rules of thumb. Building a mining camp with 15 villagers almost takes no time (or building with 1 while 14 continue mining), so its impact is minimal. :)
You can account for this yourself - vills take 20s to build it so with no upgrades that is 13 gold worth of gather time with one vill. Less for Chinese and wood efficiency better for French, natch.
@@AgeofNoob ok, thanks. Asked just to be sure. Anyway, most of those statistics don't help too much since a player has thousands of things to look at simultaneously. I usually don't have time to remake lumber camps)
All of the impacts are minimal and these dynamics although interesting won’t really account for a win or loss.. As per my experience, losing or winning a game comes from scouting and adapting your strategy at a more macro level.. not having 3mining camps per vein.. The facts and numbers presented may be interesting but entirely useless for the gameplay itself.
You are doing this community a great service. Thank you!
Great stats, as always! Thank you for your work. Excited for the Food Techs soon (if not already done by you).
I also wanted to point out how much worse the additional mining camps may be when you factor in the wood cost (pretty obvious) but even more so the idle time the villager(s) are using to create them.
Hello Age of Noob. Been loving your aoe4 videos, its definitely some of the highest quality for the game on youtube. That being said, I personally didn't like one thing about the statistics in economy videos and its that you generally compare no upgrades values to full upgrades or WB+1st upgrade values while honestly I would say having wheelbarrow is by large a more common case than any other combination of upgrades and it would be helpful to have stats on just WB. I hope you dont mind the critique, its really a small thing on 2 great videos.
Glad you like them Leandro - and that's fair enough :) The reason why I didn't do solo Wheelbarrow is because the effects are so small (on relatively efficient camps) that it wasn't worth mentioning, but I suppose I can mention that quickly moving forward.
Yeah, good video, I always add 2nd or even 3rd mining camp if I see too much vilagers from other sides but now with this numbers I will do it better. Thanks
Cool and educating Videos :), thank you for your work.
No problem, thanks for stopping by my friend. :)
Love these educational “Is it worth it” videos!
Glad you like them my friend :)
Age of Noob has become Spirit of the Law for AoEIV. Change my mind.
Can we please see % increase in efficiency instead of just numbers? It's way nicer to get a 'feel' for the process in this way
To 50/max miners that fit, I can think of scenario when it would be viable.
Lets say on gold that is in the middle or close to enemy taking it before enemy can is important factor, especially if you know that you will not be able to hold that area for very long.
Is it possible to exhaust the vein before it actually repay self cost? Especially small stone vein.
Not really. I believe fully imperial age upgraded 20 miners can finish a vein in around 8 mins if I remember correctly. Since the payback time is a max of 2 minutes after 15+ miners, this isn't an issue.
Can you make a vid on the new buffed trebs and the English shattering projectiles, and compare those to mangonels? Especially if they are English trebs, you might be able to use those as extra long range mangos and bombards combined in one, but I would like to know how they compare.
I will explore siege further for sure, but I'm waiting for another patch or two for siege to settle in.. It's definitely something that'll get tweaked often and quite soon
Two things, you mention random pathing inefficiency if you could let us know (even in the description) how many times you ran a test at a certain villager size this would account for the inefficiency and is important info for us to know the accuracy of your data (also those inefficiencies should dissipate if you take enough samples). Secondly, adding error values could be helpful so we can know the validity. I'm not sure how much you know about error analysis but there are simple ways to estimate the error based on the average deviations that would add work for you I'm aware but help make your overall work much more credible and trustworthy. Feel free to let me know if you want to chat more about it.
Both of your points are completely valid and something that I would definitely do if I had more time - but I don't unfortunately. Videos like these take tens of hours to make, and running multipl tests would add a whole lot more to that time. In an ideal world, I'd run the tests 10 times and average it out to get rid of any issues, but I run the test only once (or twice /three times if I feel like something really went wrong or villagers behaved exceptionally worse).
Hence, is the data perfect? No. But will it affect the rules of thumb? Highly unlikely, because the margin of error is really tiny (as I observe the villagers collecting the resources). Hope this helps. :)
@@AgeofNoob I understand and I think it should really be on the road map of things to add as your channel expands. Alternatively though, if you have a second computer or laptop you could run two experiments simultaneously that way you half the time (of doing two experiments) and still have a second example to compare values and make sure they aren't wildly different. I do love the work your are doing though and am aware it's easy to criticize from afar.
Also interesting to know would how this changes as chinese with an imperial official on gold. Would it still bring you more gold or be worth the additional mining camps?
It looks like every first economy upgrade is worth with +15 villagers on specific resource...
Not with wood, Wood is typically @ 20 Lumberjacks :)
@5:10 you as why the improvements are better for 20 vils with upgrades then chalk it up to RNG. I dont believe thats the case, I think at 20+ vils the walk distance is the max for testing, and you are seeing the 15% movement speed from WB make an impact on the results.
Thanks for the video, Noob! I had a question- is it ever worth it to build a second mining camp if you’re China and you can only supervise the first one with your imperial official?
No problem :) In theory, yes, as villager efficiency drop-off will be the same regardless, even if the Imperial Official's interaction with the buildings themselves aren't as favorable.
I Like youre Videos so much
What if you place the two mining camps opposite to each other on either side of the gold deposit? Is it better or worse than in the other configuration?
People build more than one mining camp on the same outcrop?
They should after watching this video :)
There are some players who do, specially if the mine is in a contested area that they want to take all the resources quickly.
You should look a little bit deeper into the civs maybe some exclusions oder speziel thinks to the topics. The chinese for exampel should never build more than 1 camp if they use an offical to boost the camp. At least i think it should be this way^^
You forgot to consider the time it takes to build the camp.
Should have tried 2 mining camps on the same side of a 3x3
Or diametrically opposed.
I think you place the mining camp 1 tile off the small mine if you only place one. So the villagers dont do stupid shit
That causes more walk time I'm afraid. It'll make things more inefficient.
@@AgeofNoob oh ok ty
What if you are mongolian and you have the landmark?
If you're referring to Steppe Redoubt, then making additional mining camps won't make sense for sure. The +50% is too much, and would offset any inefficiency caused by the walk time.
Just…Thanks. That’s it.
You're welcome!
can you make comparison of unıts ? horse archer vs mangudai for instance
Both of those units will be explored some time in the future for sure!
Mining goes brtttttt
To be completed with the upcoming mining upgrades video :)
Today I watched a pro game with HRE and 3 relics. 20 vils on Gold wo upgrades is 650 per min. 3 relics for HRE is 900 mer min???? This alone makes the game questionable and if u add mango brokenness I'm not sure how balanced this game is at all
Please keep these coming man!! #1 YT views provider -> P R O M O S M!!
While I really like your videos, it's kinda pointless to do efficiency videos as long as Microsoft hasn't fixed the uncountable game breaking bugs such as animation cancelling etc.
animation cancelling is fixed
and what does animation cancelling have a lick to do with economy? More eco = more units, whatever you are able to do or not do with those units...more is more.
I do my best to cover economy videos for mechanics that aren't bugged (for example, I avoided Prelates and Fish because we all knew that they were going to be patched out soon). That said, animation cancelling doesn't affect the economy at all, so this video will be useful as long as they do not change the base gather rates, which is extremely unlikely. :)
@@MoreDrongo Except for elephants, so don't get it mistaken little guy !