Thanks to Curiosity Stream for sponsoring this episode. Go to curiositystream.com/CynicalHistorian and use the code CynicalHistorian for a $14.99 annual subscription. Click "read more" for further info, corrections, and bibliography Check out Lynn Burnett’s public history of racial justice website, make sure to check out the resources tab for tons of material: crossculturalsolidarity.com/ The stuff specifically on the BPP: crossculturalsolidarity.com/black-panther-party-resources/ Thanks for watching! Please consider supporting the channel by buying merch: teespring.com/stores/the-cynical-historian Or by donating to my Patreon: www.patreon.com/CynicalHistorian *[reserved for errata]* Here are some related videos: race riots: th-cam.com/video/tAbkCU5nBhM/w-d-xo.html Olympics: th-cam.com/video/WHGYFmK5t9U/w-d-xo.html US sports protest: th-cam.com/video/ZZ6L9amWHY8/w-d-xo.html *Bibliography* William O'Neil interview: th-cam.com/video/uSjYd35nF5s/w-d-xo.html, full transcript: digital.wustl.edu/e/eii/eiiweb/one5427.1047.125williamo%27neal.html FBI files on Fred Hampton: vault.fbi.gov/Fred%20Hampton/Fred%20Hampton%20Part%2001%20of%2003/view vault.fbi.gov/Fred%20Hampton/Fred%20Hampton%20Part%2002%20of%2003/view vault.fbi.gov/Fred%20Hampton/fred-hampton-part-03-of-03/view And all of COINTELPRO: vault.fbi.gov/cointel-pro Curtis J. Austin, _Violence in the Making and Unmaking of the Black Panther Party_ (Fayetteville: University of Arkansas Press, 2006). amzn.to/3ffepGj Joshua Bloom and Waldo E. Martin, _Black against Empire: The History and Politics of the Black Panther Party_ (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2013). amzn.to/2SjIxrc David Cunningham, _There’s Something Happening Here: The New Left, the Klan, and FBI Counterintelligence_ (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2004. amzn.to/3hU0iIi Todd Fraley and Elli Lester-Roushanzamir, “Revolutionary Leader or Deviant Thug? A Comparative Analysis of the Chicago Tribune and Chicago Daily Defender’s Reporting on the Death of Fred Hampton,” _Howard Journal of Communications_ 15, iss. 3 (Summer 2004): 147-67. Craig Mcpherson, “You can’t Kill Chairman Fred: Examining the Life and Legacy of a Revolutionary,” _Journal of African American Studies_ 23, Iss. 4 (December 2019): 276-298. Fact checkers: slate.com/culture/2021/02/judas-black-messiah-true-story-fred-hampton-accuracy.html www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-history-behind-judas-and-black-messiah-180976975/ www.politifact.com/article/2021/apr/14/fact-checking-judas-and-black-messiah/ www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/judas-and-the-black-messiah/
For people wondering why the Young Patriots in Chicago were obsessed with confederate memorabilia, the Young Patriots were based primarily in Uptown, a poor neighborhood whose population was 80% white people from the south in the mid-60s. After the collapse of this leftist movement, Uptown’s dwindling whites would go on to form the Uptown Rebels, a neo-Confederate gang that became intertwined with the already present web of Puerto Rican and black gangs in the neighborhood. In the 80s, the gang would associate with the wider neo-Nazi movement, suffer a massive decline after federal crackdowns, and became entirely defunct by 1992.
When they mentioned at the end that Hampton was just 21 and O'Neal was just 17 (17! a goddamn teenager!!) I was blown away. Throughout the film I thought they had to be late twenties to early thirties. It left me even more shaken about the tense, dangerous environment they were in, and the tragedy of the deaths hit harder knowing the membership was so young.
i would have really liked this film more if the actors in it were younger. its easy to forget how young the Panthers involved were, and i think thats a large aspect of how horrifying the governments actions were against them.
The young will always be killed by the old (and dying) mentalities of those in-charged. And it’s especially these old sentimentalities that destroy ruin the lives of the younger generations.
I wonder if there will be movies about more controversial topics like Black Separatism (Black Liberation Army, Republic of New Afrikan and Kawasi Balagoon)
I think it would show a more less covered time in American history. People do not realize such movements went on much longer after MLK Jr.’s and Malcom X’s death. It would be very interesting.
I would love that also a movie on th3 Young Lord's, Pedro Albizu compos and US destruction and destabilization of Puerto Rico. But the problem is it needs to be from our perspectives not the other way around
@@diablomalevolos1096 There are 4 movies about PR (2 fiction and 2 historical) 1. (Fiction) Machetero - a self declared Machetero anarchist goes a one man war on the US for PR independence 2. (Fiction) Millie and the Lords 3. Luisa Capetillo (the most important anarchist in PR history) 4. Revolucion in Infierno - Is a movie about the Ponce massacre
There is a short and very shitty depiction of them in the very bad movie about Tupac, given his stepfather being Mutulu Shakur and his mother’s connections to the BLA/RNA.
Interestingly the feminism and anti-poverty stances of the Panthers was a solidification of the concept of intersectionality, a viewpoint King held later in his life that was responsible for much of his personal loss of popularity in the last months of his life.
From the Rev. Dr. MLK Jr. through the Rev. Jesse Jackson's Presidential Campaigns to modern times post-Obama, African Americans have had to use "strategic alliances" with others to overcome our weaker economic position, our weaker national political position, and our numerical minority status. We never commonly used any form of the term intersectionality but that's what we were and are forced to be, given our power and numerical minority position within this Democracy. Even during the days of Jesse's Rainbow Coalition, it was understood that working together to achieve a narrow objective was not an endorsement of the entire platform of all parties in the coalition. Today, special interest groups no longer have that level of political maturity.
@Gruddy4 Jackson It's more he was the easiest to simplify, King was a lot more radical particularly about power. He was of the opinion that love alone is closer to a sickness and that power with love is vital for a human. He was socialist aggressively so, but all that gets watered down today
@Gruddy4 Jackson not really. He was white washed when rarely any school textbooks talks about his socialism advocacy and anti-Vietnam War rhetoric that made people hate MLK.
@@farcenter I mean any and every special interest group that comes to mind but none more so than any other. Small groups don't form enough strategic alliances because they are overwhelmed by "cancel culture." Any alliance with another group causes both groups to inherit the other group's political baggage. Short-term narrowly focused alliances are possible and effective but too often people can't see the forest for the trees.
I really loved this movie, one of my favorites of the year so far. The inaccuracies you talked about really do suck, but at the same time, the fact that it’s as accurate as it is is amazing
Think of how many Einsteins, Hamptons, Marie-Curies, etc have died in sweatshops, factories and plantations, and that we have deprived the world of because they have to spend their whole lives working there
@@bothi00 and the fact that America constantly refuses to give african americans reparations because of this is one of the biggest reasons why bp have no trust in america. It bleeds all the way into our mistrust in medicine, food, etc. america refuses to make this situation right. But complains when african americans dont stand on their side
Its particularly sad with black thought leaders and revolutionaries. Black people across the world were kept illiterate en mass. Relegated as a global underclass and treated as live stock. Their place in the world dictated to them, by a large campaign that spanned several hundred years. For a handful of individuals to emerge and encourage black people to rethink how they conceptualize themselves. That their identity and place in the world should not be dictated to them but self-determined. That was HUGE at the time. The spark of black consciousness was an absolutely necessary step for black people to start reclaiming their humanity. It was tragic that these revolutionary thinkers were slaughtered, essentially, in their youth. Most of them can be considered the most important black literaries and thought leaders of the 20th century.
The mischaracterization of the Black Panthers is still one of the worst sins of the U.S. Demonizing black Americans for having the audacity to protect themselves from racist protected American institutions is disgusting.
It's very interesting on how the narrative of the BPP has changed in just a few years--not that the revisionist, more nuanced viewpoint is yet predominant, but only five or six years ago one hardly heard about these ambiguities That there's a movie in this explicit thread is a tacit sign of at least some progress...
Yeah that's a good observation. For years the view was that there were the good civil rights activists like MLK, freedom riders, and students at the lunch sit ins while the Black Panthers were the bad ones who attackes police officers and were too extreme and were distanced by the other groups. I like how in recent years we've been analyzing them through unbiased lenses and seeing them as morally gray.
@@Spongebrain97 they are basically the Anti heroes in Comics though some problematic groups did sprang from some of its members like the BLA but good for the BP for trying to control its members and creating outreach programs and advocating for stopping Police violence.
I do like how cinema has gotten away from the viewpoint that the BPP were the "bad ones" in the civil rights movement and has gotten more into the nuance of who they really were which is morally gray
@@jeffbybee5207 "Based" is gen z slang for something that you agree with, or that's really cool, it's kinda like a mix between awesome and cool. Though "based" means that it's usually used for people/actions that go against societal norms/the status quo
To me, when people say that garbage I know immediately they didn't do any research or know anything about the black Panter party. They simply watched fox News or heard a far right ignorant and just repeated what was said.
Which is a terrible false equivalence, though terroristic groups did exist like the BLA, the Panthers did what they could to actually better communities despite their flaws. Comparing them to the Klan is like comparing the Punisher to the Joker.
@@Mista_Terrific81 to be fair panther history is fairly recently being unearthed and remember the FBI basically covered up their positive contributions.
I knew the real Roy Mitchell. He served in the Korean War and left as a corporal. Years before he was one of the special agents that caught the suspects in the murders later known as the Mississippi Burnings. He cared for many black men, getting them off the streets and watching out for them. But he bought into what he was being told and what he was being ordered to do. And he felt he was doing his job. He was still riding the high of a young agent that just help solve a historic murders. I met him after his retirement and he told very few about his involvement in the Black Panther. He had a huge scrapbook of photos and news articles. He would talk about the Mississippi case and very little else. He always carried so much guilt and pain. He would talk to me, show me photos and confide in me things he said his wife didn’t even know. Mostly of the amazing young black men he met. How many were like his own kids to him. But I could hear his voice trail off when talking about his part in it. And he would ask me to pour him another scotch. His guilt and anger that he self medicated cost him his family. I just wanted people to know that he didn’t go on to live happily ever after. Riding the wave of his actions.
Excellent review Cypher, enjoyed hearing about the history of the Black Panther's again, and your thoughts on the film. One thing I love about your channel is I can get these great insights on more recent history. Keep up the great work!
03:46 Black Nationalism and Black Separatism are competing philosophies. The Nation of Islam came on the scene as a Black Separatist group. The Honorable Elijah Muhammed wanted Black people or his group to be annexed from the USA, similar to how Native Americans had land set aside for them. Blacks that fight for equality within the system while simultaneously fighting for the right to not be assimilated are Black Nationalists. (Assimilation versus integration versus segregation, and pluralism must be understood before really understanding Nationalism from the point of view of an ethnic minority.) In the USA, Black Nationalists regard their citizenship rights as unalienable (as it is meant in the US Declaration of Independence) and equal to all others, especially White Men. Some Black Nationalists have a global perspective and identify with their genetic geographic origin, Africa. This group is called Pan Africans. All Black Pan Africans are Black Nationalists but not all Black Nationalists are Pan Africanists, but neither are Separatists and neither embrace assimilation. Any of the philosophies can embrace either violence or nonviolence as a strategy, but none embrace nonviolence as a moral absolute. The Nation of Islam, the primary Black Separatist group, originally prohibited its members from voting in elections, running for elected office, and enlisting in the military. These are key Separatism traits. Jesse Jackson and Martin Luther King Jr were Black Nationalists. Both fought for equality within the system. Unfortunately, Dr. MLK, Jr was rebranded as an assimilationist. His fight was for equal access to public accommodation. An assimilationist would argue against Blacks maintaining race consciousness and against Blacks being apart from Whites physically, psychologically, or culturally, ideas which the Rev Dr. MLK Jr. never promoted. Now, I'll continue watching the video.
@@itsanit123 You conflated my description of an assimilationist and misrepresented my definition of a Black Nationalist. The "not apart from" line goes with assimilationists. Black Nationalists are neither assimilationists, segregationists, nor separatists. Read it again. It seems you have your own opinion. which is your right. Just don't ascribe it to me.
@@itsanit123 I think I see where the confusion exists. I was listing the values or mindset of an assimilationist. Apparently, I didn't make that clear.
@@itsanit123 "segregation" wasn't just being physically apart. If only. Segregation was sun-down jurisdictions. Segregation was Klan raids. Segregation was economic and political inequality. Segregation was ghettos and bantustans. It is either evil or delusional to compare black people's desire to have a homeland for themselves to actual segregation that included all of those things. You sound like a nazi, talking like that
@@GormTheElder I think where people get tripped up is the area of choice versus force. To some degree, social or self segregation among same kind is normal human behavior. Likes attract. However, the use of law to force segregation and then to force desegregation and assimilation are all problematic. There is a middle ground where choice is respected with little or less legal repression. We forget that Brown versus The Board of Education was initially about equal resource distribution. We ended up in a different place by concentrating on moving people instead of moving money. Culture and commerce was driving people to integration anyway. (Selective Integration is the preferred choice variant.) EEOC laws would have quickened the pace, too. However, forced bussing and forced integration, which is actually assimilation, IMHO, put us on the path of socially reengineering whole groups of people for generations....and we Black Nationals and Pan Africans remain pissed about it. It turns out that Blacks are considered inherently unequal whether we are separate or not.....I'd rather we had "our" culture. Maybe we paid too much for what we got. Sometimes I wonder.
MLK advocated for interracial marriage and bussing. Clear examples of at least integration, if not assimilation. I'm not sure which Martin Luther King you're referring to, but it doesn't seem to be the one from history.
you know what? i very much like this video and how it balances out between the COINTELPRO and the BPP, despite its issues And just like Cynical, feels more neutral and organic to accept its thanks to that im always lucid when Cynical is covering a subject, to learn better. Keep up with the awesome videos TCH
When Hampton says 'Tricky dicky nixon' the movie seems to be quoting him when he is talking at a trial. it can be found here th-cam.com/video/fJSqZrVjDds/w-d-xo.html I don't know when this speech was, but it seems that the movie was trying to quote Hampton directly.
I‘d love to see what you think of the movie "Das weisse Band". It doesn‘t exactly fit into "Based on a true Story", because it isn‘t. But nonetheless, it could be interesting.
I am open to being wrong on this but I would have liked if you mentioned Newton’s side of the murder case, if you read his book Revolutionary Suicide he tells the story from his perspective. He says the cops pulled him over and made him get out, he brought his law book out with him as he usually did with these types of stops, and the officer took him behind the second cop car, not the car of the cop who pulled him over and who Newton was accused of murdering, and the cop punched Newton in the face and then shot him in the stomach, Huey was in and out of consciousness and could not recall what happened but reading further into his book about the trial it seems apparent he did not do it as the prosecution played very dirty and even brought in a fake witness, a bus driver who claimed to have seen it but in later retrials was found to have been 2 miles away at the time of the incident. Not to mention his entire time in the hospital cops were tormenting him, not letting him sleep, gave him nerve damage from how tight the handcuffs were, beat him more while he was shackled to the bed, and refused to let black nurses care for him
Cynical Historian, being a movie and a history buff, I love your channel, and I have binge-watched quite few episodes. "Judas And The Black Messiah" is on my watchlist now! Thank you for the lession in black history!! I watched your assessment of "Hotel Rwanda" recently. This is a movie I have avoided so far, because I had misgivings about it's historical accuracy. I have to say that I am quite willing to accept a certain amount of historical incorrectness if the movie is really good. Although I know perfectly well that Salieri did not kill Mozart, "Amadeus" is nevertheless a great movie. And Charles Laughton is a wonderfully evil Captain Bligh, although the real captain of the Bounty had a very different personality, and the real Fletcher Christian was certainly no Clark Gable but a bow legged 20-something who tended to sweat heavily. However, if I watch a more recent movie about a subject which is still important for us today, I find it very unnerving and regrettable if it has very little or nothing to do with real events. And it is terrible if real people get tarnished by a popular movie. Have you ever looked into the Denzil-Washington vehicle "The Hurricane"? I love Denzil Washington, and I also liked "The Hurricane" when I watched it for the first time, although the white-savior motive was a bit too pronounced for my taste. But the movie gave me a fuzzy warm feeling when I learned that it was based on a real story. However, when I started to research the subject I was shocked to discover that the movie had very little to do with reality, and that Rubin "Hurricane" Carter was a has-been boxer and a seriously bad lot who told a lot of lies about his life. But it got worse: the policemen who investigated the murder which they suspected was committed by Carter, were not at all evil and corrupt, and they did not do all the reprehensible stuff we see them doing in the movie - and there is even the distinct possibility that they were not even wrong. Carter may have been at least actively involved in the crime. This raises the question if those who make a movie based on a true story should be aware that they have a certain responsibility to get at least the basic facts right! I was very disappointed when I discovered an interview with Denzil Washington where he stated that he could not care less if the movie got the facts right. Now, Denzil may have been just a bit flippant, and when The Hurricane was made, he was not yet in the envious position of having so many role offers that he could afford to turn down such a juicy part. Anyway, I feel strongly that movie makers should strive for as much historical accuracy as possible. If they want to deviate from the known facts they should be open about it and announce that they have been inspired by historical events but chose to deviate from what really happened. And it would actually help to use fictive names for their characters. But oh well, this problem is centuries old. There is a great playwright whose works we all know well. He wrote a wonderful play, called "Richard III", and he created the perfect stage villain. All great stage actors want to play Richard at least once, and they could not care less if Richard was really a villain or a misunderstood king who was loved by his subjects during his lifetime, but who became the victim of a vicious Tudor propaganda campaign after he had died bravely on the battle field. Heck, we are not even completely sure if we know the real name of that great playwright - but his plays and sonetts are so great that for most of his audience it does not matter a great deal 😉 Interesting tidbit: Bob Dylan wrote the well known song "Like A Hurricane" about Carter - but when he eventually learned more about the case, he never performed the song again!
no need to do that. I already am very interested in doing so, since it will be mentioned in my dissertation. But researching it any further then I currently have would interfere schedule. I'll be back on the border war in January. Currently focused on southern New Mexico for the rest of the semester
Your commitment to accuracy is much appreciated! Things happening right now would make a lot more sense instead of these mass media narratives demonizing the victims and gaslighting Americans
The promo made me think that a video from you on the subject of Malcom X could be interesting. He is a glorified figure, yet some people (myself included) actually don’t know too much about what he believed. Also, may I ask if you would consider Malcom X a black supremacist? I remember once hearing someone claim that. I know he was a black separatist and an influential figure with black power, but I don’t know enough about him to be sure if he believed blacks were superior to whites.
Malcom X is an amazing movie. But I don't care for the dedication Islam. I know before they were enslaved in the USA many were muslim but depending on 'God' is not a great idea
Them offering him a business is supposed to illustrate the betrayal. Making him like Judas who sold out the messiah for silver. It’s a movie, that’s a creative liberty
I've heard two different claims about J. Edgar Hoover talking about Roy Mitchell's daughter, can someone provide me a source if this scene really did occur or didn't?
Finally got around to watching this movie, highly recommend it. As a leftist it’s easy for me to want to paint the panthers through rose tinted glasses, but this film did a wonderful job portraying them fairly. The one thing that made me turn in my seat when I watched it was, just as you pointed out, the error about Nixon being president in 1968
I read about it in Daniel Lucks, _Reconsidering Reagan: Racism, Republicans, and the Road to Trump_ (Boston: Beacon Press, 2021), audiobook. amzn.to/3wHugnp
While I get it was used for repression, Reagan is still speaking facts. Nobody should need a loaded gun on them in public in a city/town, police included.
It’s fascinating how these events so strongly effect the black community even to this day. Ik it wasn’t very long ago, but the very apparent and direct correlation this has to gang violence is stark. Thank you for covering this! Appreciate your work!
Can anyone tell me/find a source of how the black panther party felt about interracial dating or marriage? Just for the record I’m mixed (black/white) I was at a restaurant a few years back and there was a black man wearing panther shirt across from him was his white wife and mixed daughter. I thought it was a funny F you but then I was thinking would the painters be cool with that, thinking some black revolution groups feel a type way about it.
After watching this insightful review, I am so going to watch the movie! I hope Daniel gets an Oscar! This just shows how we don't have enough young black actors, we couldn't even get the right age actor to play the role.
Lol I love the Panthers but I could tell the FBI informant was false. The FBI doesn't seem like they'd be so ignorant as to have just one informant member outright kill another and then have them tell other members. On the flip side I would expect a Panther to act so brash though because the Panthers weren't as organized and disciplined as the FBI.
I grew up in the projects and was treated like an outsider because I was white.when Fred Hampton said racism is something capitalism use to keep the poor down I felt that.
Daniel Kaluula honestly ruined the movie, he talked to fast and needed subtitles to see what he said. Daniel looked nothing like fred, I hate they used a fake name for a real organization. The movie was ok, I just wish someone else was casted as Fred Hampton.
Off topic. I just went on a Haunted tour in Santa Fe and the guide made a huge deal about the Native Americans keeping slaves and their supposed rampant cannibalism. 🙄
Great video. Just on the Newton's alleged shooting however I think it would have been good for you to point out the unreliability of the witness testimony and all the shenanigans that happened during his trial
Hence why i emphasize the ambiguity of the situation. Ultimately the outside witness is always more believable than a defendant, but you get to choose what you believe. Discounting what the witness believed though, that's intolerably fascist
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Thanks to Curiosity Stream for sponsoring this episode. Go to curiositystream.com/CynicalHistorian and use the code CynicalHistorian for a $14.99 annual subscription. Click "read more" for further info, corrections, and bibliography
Check out Lynn Burnett’s public history of racial justice website, make sure to check out the resources tab for tons of material: crossculturalsolidarity.com/
The stuff specifically on the BPP: crossculturalsolidarity.com/black-panther-party-resources/
Thanks for watching! Please consider supporting the channel by buying merch: teespring.com/stores/the-cynical-historian
Or by donating to my Patreon: www.patreon.com/CynicalHistorian
*[reserved for errata]*
Here are some related videos:
race riots: th-cam.com/video/tAbkCU5nBhM/w-d-xo.html
Olympics: th-cam.com/video/WHGYFmK5t9U/w-d-xo.html
US sports protest: th-cam.com/video/ZZ6L9amWHY8/w-d-xo.html
*Bibliography*
William O'Neil interview: th-cam.com/video/uSjYd35nF5s/w-d-xo.html, full transcript: digital.wustl.edu/e/eii/eiiweb/one5427.1047.125williamo%27neal.html
FBI files on Fred Hampton:
vault.fbi.gov/Fred%20Hampton/Fred%20Hampton%20Part%2001%20of%2003/view
vault.fbi.gov/Fred%20Hampton/Fred%20Hampton%20Part%2002%20of%2003/view
vault.fbi.gov/Fred%20Hampton/fred-hampton-part-03-of-03/view
And all of COINTELPRO: vault.fbi.gov/cointel-pro
Curtis J. Austin, _Violence in the Making and Unmaking of the Black Panther Party_ (Fayetteville: University of Arkansas Press, 2006). amzn.to/3ffepGj
Joshua Bloom and Waldo E. Martin, _Black against Empire: The History and Politics of the Black Panther Party_ (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2013). amzn.to/2SjIxrc
David Cunningham, _There’s Something Happening Here: The New Left, the Klan, and FBI Counterintelligence_ (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2004. amzn.to/3hU0iIi
Todd Fraley and Elli Lester-Roushanzamir, “Revolutionary Leader or Deviant Thug? A Comparative Analysis of the Chicago Tribune and Chicago Daily Defender’s Reporting on the Death of Fred Hampton,” _Howard Journal of Communications_ 15, iss. 3 (Summer 2004): 147-67.
Craig Mcpherson, “You can’t Kill Chairman Fred: Examining the Life and Legacy of a Revolutionary,” _Journal of African American Studies_ 23, Iss. 4 (December 2019): 276-298.
Fact checkers:
slate.com/culture/2021/02/judas-black-messiah-true-story-fred-hampton-accuracy.html
www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-history-behind-judas-and-black-messiah-180976975/
www.politifact.com/article/2021/apr/14/fact-checking-judas-and-black-messiah/
www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/judas-and-the-black-messiah/
Lol even just mentioning the name Wilson fills him with such hate.
For people wondering why the Young Patriots in Chicago were obsessed with confederate memorabilia, the Young Patriots were based primarily in Uptown, a poor neighborhood whose population was 80% white people from the south in the mid-60s. After the collapse of this leftist movement, Uptown’s dwindling whites would go on to form the Uptown Rebels, a neo-Confederate gang that became intertwined with the already present web of Puerto Rican and black gangs in the neighborhood. In the 80s, the gang would associate with the wider neo-Nazi movement, suffer a massive decline after federal crackdowns, and became entirely defunct by 1992.
Wow thanks! Im not gonna ask how you know that
Good info. I actually live in Uptown. Will have to do more research.
When they mentioned at the end that Hampton was just 21 and O'Neal was just 17 (17! a goddamn teenager!!) I was blown away. Throughout the film I thought they had to be late twenties to early thirties. It left me even more shaken about the tense, dangerous environment they were in, and the tragedy of the deaths hit harder knowing the membership was so young.
i would have really liked this film more if the actors in it were younger. its easy to forget how young the Panthers involved were, and i think thats a large aspect of how horrifying the governments actions were against them.
The young will always be killed by the old (and dying) mentalities of those in-charged. And it’s especially these old sentimentalities that destroy ruin the lives of the younger generations.
It blew my mind how young Fred and Bill really were when I looked them up after I saw the movie.
I would have really liked this film if it was just them being murdered. That I would pay to see
@@John_Malka-tits aren't you so edgy and cool
I wonder if there will be movies about more controversial topics like Black Separatism (Black Liberation Army, Republic of New Afrikan and Kawasi Balagoon)
I think it would show a more less covered time in American history. People do not realize such movements went on much longer after MLK Jr.’s and Malcom X’s death. It would be very interesting.
Aye nice pfp! Hopefully there will be some media about our liberation movement one day ;)
I would love that also a movie on th3 Young Lord's, Pedro Albizu compos and US destruction and destabilization of Puerto Rico. But the problem is it needs to be from our perspectives not the other way around
@@diablomalevolos1096 There are 4 movies about PR (2 fiction and 2 historical)
1. (Fiction) Machetero - a self declared Machetero anarchist goes a one man war on the US for PR independence
2. (Fiction) Millie and the Lords
3. Luisa Capetillo (the most important anarchist in PR history)
4. Revolucion in Infierno - Is a movie about the Ponce massacre
There is a short and very shitty depiction of them in the very bad movie about Tupac, given his stepfather being Mutulu Shakur and his mother’s connections to the BLA/RNA.
Interestingly the feminism and anti-poverty stances of the Panthers was a solidification of the concept of intersectionality, a viewpoint King held later in his life that was responsible for much of his personal loss of popularity in the last months of his life.
From the Rev. Dr. MLK Jr. through the Rev. Jesse Jackson's Presidential Campaigns to modern times post-Obama, African Americans have had to use "strategic alliances" with others to overcome our weaker economic position, our weaker national political position, and our numerical minority status.
We never commonly used any form of the term intersectionality but that's what we were and are forced to be, given our power and numerical minority position within this Democracy.
Even during the days of Jesse's Rainbow Coalition, it was understood that working together to achieve a narrow objective was not an endorsement of the entire platform of all parties in the coalition. Today, special interest groups no longer have that level of political maturity.
@Gruddy4 Jackson It's more he was the easiest to simplify, King was a lot more radical particularly about power. He was of the opinion that love alone is closer to a sickness and that power with love is vital for a human.
He was socialist aggressively so, but all that gets watered down today
@Gruddy4 Jackson not really. He was white washed when rarely any school textbooks talks about his socialism advocacy and anti-Vietnam War rhetoric that made people hate MLK.
@@dollarwil1234 I'm curious what you mean, specifically in regards to what "special interest groups"/ tangential movements you are alluding to. cheers
@@farcenter I mean any and every special interest group that comes to mind but none more so than any other. Small groups don't form enough strategic alliances because they are overwhelmed by "cancel culture." Any alliance with another group causes both groups to inherit the other group's political baggage. Short-term narrowly focused alliances are possible and effective but too often people can't see the forest for the trees.
Always sobering to remember that a lot of the black Panthers leaders were so young. Like man, I’m 23 so it’s pretty wild to think Hampton was my age.
He was 21.
I really loved this movie, one of my favorites of the year so far. The inaccuracies you talked about really do suck, but at the same time, the fact that it’s as accurate as it is is amazing
I wonder how many people that could've changed this world were killed in instances like Fred Hampton and the like.
Alot.
Think of how many Einsteins, Hamptons, Marie-Curies, etc have died in sweatshops, factories and plantations, and that we have deprived the world of because they have to spend their whole lives working there
@@bothi00 and the fact that America constantly refuses to give african americans reparations because of this is one of the biggest reasons why bp have no trust in america. It bleeds all the way into our mistrust in medicine, food, etc. america refuses to make this situation right. But complains when african americans dont stand on their side
Its particularly sad with black thought leaders and revolutionaries. Black people across the world were kept illiterate en mass. Relegated as a global underclass and treated as live stock. Their place in the world dictated to them, by a large campaign that spanned several hundred years.
For a handful of individuals to emerge and encourage black people to rethink how they conceptualize themselves. That their identity and place in the world should not be dictated to them but self-determined. That was HUGE at the time. The spark of black consciousness was an absolutely necessary step for black people to start reclaiming their humanity.
It was tragic that these revolutionary thinkers were slaughtered, essentially, in their youth. Most of them can be considered the most important black literaries and thought leaders of the 20th century.
Too many to count… :(
The mischaracterization of the Black Panthers is still one of the worst sins of the U.S. Demonizing black Americans for having the audacity to protect themselves from racist protected American institutions is disgusting.
Sorry did u neglect half of the video which documented the rife internal violent conflicts as well as the open affiliation with authoritarian regimes
Bro didint watch the video
It's very interesting on how the narrative of the BPP has changed in just a few years--not that the revisionist, more nuanced viewpoint is yet predominant, but only five or six years ago one hardly heard about these ambiguities
That there's a movie in this explicit thread is a tacit sign of at least some progress...
Yeah that's a good observation. For years the view was that there were the good civil rights activists like MLK, freedom riders, and students at the lunch sit ins while the Black Panthers were the bad ones who attackes police officers and were too extreme and were distanced by the other groups. I like how in recent years we've been analyzing them through unbiased lenses and seeing them as morally gray.
@@Spongebrain97 they are basically the Anti heroes in Comics though some problematic groups did sprang from some of its members like the BLA but good for the BP for trying to control its members and creating outreach programs and advocating for stopping Police violence.
Yes, been waiting for this to drop ever since you made that video in the black panthers. Love your work man, keep it up
I do like how cinema has gotten away from the viewpoint that the BPP were the "bad ones" in the civil rights movement and has gotten more into the nuance of who they really were which is morally gray
@@xp7575 agreed based as fuck. When the state is murdering your brothers and sisters, you get some moral leeway
@@jeffbybee5207 based just means he likes their ideology and tactics
@@jeffbybee5207 "Based" is gen z slang for something that you agree with, or that's really cool, it's kinda like a mix between awesome and cool. Though "based" means that it's usually used for people/actions that go against societal norms/the status quo
@@xp7575
They were cringe as fuck
The BPP was necessary if films even tried now they’d be cancelled most likely
The casual “Wilson” drop in Reagan’s name killed me 😂
I hate when people compare the black panthers to the KKK the black panthers never have done the things that the KKK has done to black people.
To me, when people say that garbage I know immediately they didn't do any research or know anything about the black Panter party. They simply watched fox News or heard a far right ignorant and just repeated what was said.
Which is a terrible false equivalence, though terroristic groups did exist like the BLA, the Panthers did what they could to actually better communities despite their flaws.
Comparing them to the Klan is like comparing the Punisher to the Joker.
@@Mista_Terrific81 to be fair panther history is fairly recently being unearthed and remember the FBI basically covered up their positive contributions.
Just look at the people doing the narration it explains it all
actually off the top, it is my understanding that Harry Belafonte was the person who produced the cash for Dr. King and the Civil Rights movement.
A major labor union also delivered cash to MLK.
Ironically I was one of those kids who partook in the free breakfasts in Oakland.
I knew the real Roy Mitchell. He served in the Korean War and left as a corporal. Years before he was one of the special agents that caught the suspects in the murders later known as the Mississippi Burnings. He cared for many black men, getting them off the streets and watching out for them. But he bought into what he was being told and what he was being ordered to do. And he felt he was doing his job. He was still riding the high of a young agent that just help solve a historic murders.
I met him after his retirement and he told very few about his involvement in the Black Panther. He had a huge scrapbook of photos and news articles. He would talk about the Mississippi case and very little else. He always carried so much guilt and pain.
He would talk to me, show me photos and confide in me things he said his wife didn’t even know. Mostly of the amazing young black men he met. How many were like his own kids to him. But I could hear his voice trail off when talking about his part in it. And he would ask me to pour him another scotch.
His guilt and anger that he self medicated cost him his family. I just wanted people to know that he didn’t go on to live happily ever after. Riding the wave of his actions.
i want to see Candace Owens reacting to this movie
btw glad seeing W'Kabi redeems himself after helping Killmonger
I didn't know I wanted this until i read this hahaha
and after escaping the Neighborhood in Get Out
Tbf, I don't think that Fred Hampton would of hated Killmonger's overall goal.
@@oivi3iv635 eh, Killmonger didn't have class analysis built into his criticisms unlike Fred Hampton's advocacy for socialism.
Happy Wakanda noises
Excellent review Cypher, enjoyed hearing about the history of the Black Panther's again, and your thoughts on the film. One thing I love about your channel is I can get these great insights on more recent history. Keep up the great work!
03:46 Black Nationalism and Black Separatism are competing philosophies. The Nation of Islam came on the scene as a Black Separatist group. The Honorable Elijah Muhammed wanted Black people or his group to be annexed from the USA, similar to how Native Americans had land set aside for them.
Blacks that fight for equality within the system while simultaneously fighting for the right to not be assimilated are Black Nationalists. (Assimilation versus integration versus segregation, and pluralism must be understood before really understanding Nationalism from the point of view of an ethnic minority.) In the USA, Black Nationalists regard their citizenship rights as unalienable (as it is meant in the US Declaration of Independence) and equal to all others, especially White Men.
Some Black Nationalists have a global perspective and identify with their genetic geographic origin, Africa. This group is called Pan Africans. All Black Pan Africans are Black Nationalists but not all Black Nationalists are Pan Africanists, but neither are Separatists and neither embrace assimilation. Any of the philosophies can embrace either violence or nonviolence as a strategy, but none embrace nonviolence as a moral absolute.
The Nation of Islam, the primary Black Separatist group, originally prohibited its members from voting in elections, running for elected office, and enlisting in the military. These are key Separatism traits. Jesse Jackson and Martin Luther King Jr were Black Nationalists. Both fought for equality within the system. Unfortunately, Dr. MLK, Jr was rebranded as an assimilationist. His fight was for equal access to public accommodation. An assimilationist would argue against Blacks maintaining race consciousness and against Blacks being apart from Whites physically, psychologically, or culturally, ideas which the Rev Dr. MLK Jr. never promoted.
Now, I'll continue watching the video.
@@itsanit123 You conflated my description of an assimilationist and misrepresented my definition of a Black Nationalist. The "not apart from" line goes with assimilationists. Black Nationalists are neither assimilationists, segregationists, nor separatists. Read it again. It seems you have your own opinion. which is your right. Just don't ascribe it to me.
@@itsanit123 I think I see where the confusion exists. I was listing the values or mindset of an assimilationist. Apparently, I didn't make that clear.
@@itsanit123 "segregation" wasn't just being physically apart. If only.
Segregation was sun-down jurisdictions. Segregation was Klan raids. Segregation was economic and political inequality. Segregation was ghettos and bantustans.
It is either evil or delusional to compare black people's desire to have a homeland for themselves to actual segregation that included all of those things.
You sound like a nazi, talking like that
@@GormTheElder I think where people get tripped up is the area of choice versus force. To some degree, social or self segregation among same kind is normal human behavior. Likes attract. However, the use of law to force segregation and then to force desegregation and assimilation are all problematic.
There is a middle ground where choice is respected with little or less legal repression. We forget that Brown versus The Board of Education was initially about equal resource distribution. We ended up in a different place by concentrating on moving people instead of moving money.
Culture and commerce was driving people to integration anyway. (Selective Integration is the preferred choice variant.) EEOC laws would have quickened the pace, too. However, forced bussing and forced integration, which is actually assimilation, IMHO, put us on the path of socially reengineering whole groups of people for generations....and we Black Nationals and Pan Africans remain pissed about it.
It turns out that Blacks are considered inherently unequal whether we are separate or not.....I'd rather we had "our" culture. Maybe we paid too much for what we got. Sometimes I wonder.
MLK advocated for interracial marriage and bussing. Clear examples of at least integration, if not assimilation. I'm not sure which Martin Luther King you're referring to, but it doesn't seem to be the one from history.
you know what? i very much like this video and how it balances out between the COINTELPRO and the BPP, despite its issues
And just like Cynical, feels more neutral and organic to accept
its thanks to that im always lucid when Cynical is covering a subject, to learn better. Keep up with the awesome videos TCH
When Hampton says 'Tricky dicky nixon' the movie seems to be quoting him when he is talking at a trial. it can be found here th-cam.com/video/fJSqZrVjDds/w-d-xo.html I don't know when this speech was, but it seems that the movie was trying to quote Hampton directly.
I‘d love to see what you think of the movie "Das weisse Band". It doesn‘t exactly fit into "Based on a true Story", because it isn‘t. But nonetheless, it could be interesting.
You deserve more subscribers and will get what you earned soon I hope
I am open to being wrong on this but I would have liked if you mentioned Newton’s side of the murder case, if you read his book Revolutionary Suicide he tells the story from his perspective. He says the cops pulled him over and made him get out, he brought his law book out with him as he usually did with these types of stops, and the officer took him behind the second cop car, not the car of the cop who pulled him over and who Newton was accused of murdering, and the cop punched Newton in the face and then shot him in the stomach, Huey was in and out of consciousness and could not recall what happened but reading further into his book about the trial it seems apparent he did not do it as the prosecution played very dirty and even brought in a fake witness, a bus driver who claimed to have seen it but in later retrials was found to have been 2 miles away at the time of the incident. Not to mention his entire time in the hospital cops were tormenting him, not letting him sleep, gave him nerve damage from how tight the handcuffs were, beat him more while he was shackled to the bed, and refused to let black nurses care for him
I wonder what the bad comments will look like
Full of facts, nuance, and not at all painting with broad brushes, I'm sure.
The Black Panthers were run By Killmonger to collect the Infinity Stones.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 Ok that was funny
Cynical Historian, being a movie and a history buff, I love your channel, and I have binge-watched quite few episodes. "Judas And The Black Messiah" is on my watchlist now! Thank you for the lession in black history!!
I watched your assessment of "Hotel Rwanda" recently. This is a movie I have avoided so far, because I had misgivings about it's historical accuracy. I have to say that I am quite willing to accept a certain amount of historical incorrectness if the movie is really good. Although I know perfectly well that Salieri did not kill Mozart, "Amadeus" is nevertheless a great movie. And Charles Laughton is a wonderfully evil Captain Bligh, although the real captain of the Bounty had a very different personality, and the real Fletcher Christian was certainly no Clark Gable but a bow legged 20-something who tended to sweat heavily. However, if I watch a more recent movie about a subject which is still important for us today, I find it very unnerving and regrettable if it has very little or nothing to do with real events. And it is terrible if real people get tarnished by a popular movie. Have you ever looked into the Denzil-Washington vehicle "The Hurricane"? I love Denzil Washington, and I also liked "The Hurricane" when I watched it for the first time, although the white-savior motive was a bit too pronounced for my taste. But the movie gave me a fuzzy warm feeling when I learned that it was based on a real story. However, when I started to research the subject I was shocked to discover that the movie had very little to do with reality, and that Rubin "Hurricane" Carter was a has-been boxer and a seriously bad lot who told a lot of lies about his life. But it got worse: the policemen who investigated the murder which they suspected was committed by Carter, were not at all evil and corrupt, and they did not do all the reprehensible stuff we see them doing in the movie - and there is even the distinct possibility that they were not even wrong. Carter may have been at least actively involved in the crime. This raises the question if those who make a movie based on a true story should be aware that they have a certain responsibility to get at least the basic facts right! I was very disappointed when I discovered an interview with Denzil Washington where he stated that he could not care less if the movie got the facts right. Now, Denzil may have been just a bit flippant, and when The Hurricane was made, he was not yet in the envious position of having so many role offers that he could afford to turn down such a juicy part. Anyway, I feel strongly that movie makers should strive for as much historical accuracy as possible. If they want to deviate from the known facts they should be open about it and announce that they have been inspired by historical events but chose to deviate from what really happened. And it would actually help to use fictive names for their characters.
But oh well, this problem is centuries old. There is a great playwright whose works we all know well. He wrote a wonderful play, called "Richard III", and he created the perfect stage villain. All great stage actors want to play Richard at least once, and they could not care less if Richard was really a villain or a misunderstood king who was loved by his subjects during his lifetime, but who became the victim of a vicious Tudor propaganda campaign after he had died bravely on the battle field. Heck, we are not even completely sure if we know the real name of that great playwright - but his plays and sonetts are so great that for most of his audience it does not matter a great deal 😉
Interesting tidbit: Bob Dylan wrote the well known song "Like A Hurricane" about Carter - but when he eventually learned more about the case, he never performed the song again!
UP THE PANTHERS! That's the kind of activism we need!
I never knew I loved history so much !!! Thank you for awakening this in me ❤️
Please tell you'll consider doing a review of The 24th. I'll throw money at you for this happen if possible.
no need to do that. I already am very interested in doing so, since it will be mentioned in my dissertation. But researching it any further then I currently have would interfere schedule. I'll be back on the border war in January. Currently focused on southern New Mexico for the rest of the semester
@@CynicalHistorian Awesome!!! Can't wait to see it once it's done.
Your commitment to accuracy is much appreciated! Things happening right now would make a lot more sense instead of these mass media narratives demonizing the victims and gaslighting Americans
The promo made me think that a video from you on the subject of Malcom X could be interesting. He is a glorified figure, yet some people (myself included) actually don’t know too much about what he believed.
Also, may I ask if you would consider Malcom X a black supremacist? I remember once hearing someone claim that. I know he was a black separatist and an influential figure with black power, but I don’t know enough about him to be sure if he believed blacks were superior to whites.
Malcom X is an amazing movie. But I don't care for the dedication Islam. I know before they were enslaved in the USA many were muslim but depending on 'God' is not a great idea
"Their antagonism was symbiotic" - Cypher, you're looking for "dialectic".
Them offering him a business is supposed to illustrate the betrayal. Making him like Judas who sold out the messiah for silver. It’s a movie, that’s a creative liberty
i was waiting so much for this!!! thanks man!!
Charles Xavier and Erik Magnus Lensherr
Thank you for covering this movie
Huge fan. Keep up the great work!
I've heard two different claims about J. Edgar Hoover talking about Roy Mitchell's daughter, can someone provide me a source if this scene really did occur or didn't?
Dammit, Ronald WIIIILLLLLLLSSOOOOOOOOONNNNN!!! Reagan finds another way to be terrible.
My favorite Reagan quote at 8:20
Finally got around to watching this movie, highly recommend it. As a leftist it’s easy for me to want to paint the panthers through rose tinted glasses, but this film did a wonderful job portraying them fairly. The one thing that made me turn in my seat when I watched it was, just as you pointed out, the error about Nixon being president in 1968
Do you have a source or know anything about Earl Warrens denouncing of Reagan’s racial politics? (I couldn’t find anything online about it)
I read about it in Daniel Lucks, _Reconsidering Reagan: Racism, Republicans, and the Road to Trump_ (Boston: Beacon Press, 2021), audiobook. amzn.to/3wHugnp
@@CynicalHistorian thanks
Do you consider doing a review of Malcolm X 1992 ?
You make great videos here, obviously TH-cam (whether by algorithm or hand) doesn't promote your channel like it once did, but keep up the good work.
4:03
REAAAAGAAANNN!!!
Reagan is just awful
While I get it was used for repression, Reagan is still speaking facts. Nobody should need a loaded gun on them in public in a city/town, police included.
@@Pantsinabucket Yes.
But tell that to current Open Carry advocates. Most of whom worship Saint Ronnie...
@@Pantsinabucket its not that Ragan was completely incorrect but it also makes him hypocritical when he supports open carry later.
@@Pantsinabucket Eh, didn't ya hear Cyph shout "WILSOOON" in the video? It means he's no different from a certain lost causer.
It’s fascinating how these events so strongly effect the black community even to this day. Ik it wasn’t very long ago, but the very apparent and direct correlation this has to gang violence is stark. Thank you for covering this! Appreciate your work!
This has absolutely nothing to do with gang violence.
I would love to know where you got the footage of Reagan at time stamp 7:53
Can anyone tell me/find a source of how the black panther party felt about interracial dating or marriage?
Just for the record I’m mixed (black/white)
I was at a restaurant a few years back and there was a black man wearing panther shirt across from him was his white wife and mixed daughter. I thought it was a funny F you but then I was thinking would the painters be cool with that, thinking some black revolution groups feel a type way about it.
Another insightful video thank you for your work C H
After watching this insightful review, I am so going to watch the movie! I hope Daniel gets an Oscar! This just shows how we don't have enough young black actors, we couldn't even get the right age actor to play the role.
Lol I love the Panthers but I could tell the FBI informant was false. The FBI doesn't seem like they'd be so ignorant as to have just one informant member outright kill another and then have them tell other members. On the flip side I would expect a Panther to act so brash though because the Panthers weren't as organized and disciplined as the FBI.
Jesus not even the Imperium is that incompetent.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 Ehhh I mean the imperium has made some comparably screw ups
It's very very interesting watching their history in retrospect and reflection of current events and politics
Another key reason why the Panthers died was Nixon and his War on Drugs. He was directing targeting the Black Panthers and Hippies.
I remember growing up in my neighbourhood and the Black Panthers were always fighting the Pink Panthers
What's the music in the into and outro?
basic "1960s rock" from Epidemic Sound
@@CynicalHistorian thx bro u a real one
Great video! Btw whats the music here? It’s awesome!
generic "1960s rock" from Epidemic Sound
Man I really appreciate your videos bro, keep up the good work.
I want and need a young lord's movie. Or a movie on Pedro Albizu Compos. A hero to many killed by the US
Thank you.
I wonder if you will review Spike Lees Panther as well
Been waiting since I saw this month's ago, thank you
I still want King Richard I, what kind of cat is he?
Dunno
@@CynicalHistorian so his breed is "cat".
@@CynicalHistorian Plantagenet, obviously.
Panther Power
did a ton for the community back in the day
Lol even just mentioning the name Wilson fills him with such hate.
Cypher,
I thought you already did a video on this movie before this.
Reagan confirmed Fudd.
I grew up in the projects and was treated like an outsider because I was white.when Fred Hampton said racism is something capitalism use to keep the poor down I felt that.
Great video
Daniel Kaluula honestly ruined the movie, he talked to fast and needed subtitles to see what he said. Daniel looked nothing like fred, I hate they used a fake name for a real organization. The movie was ok, I just wish someone else was casted as Fred Hampton.
Nicely done.
Thanks so much means a lot
i hope you want to review "Malcolm X" movie in the future
Same here and do a video on the Nation of Islam video to and do it separately like he did the black panthers
I like that clip of the white cop standing there letting the black radical say what he pleased.
Dope video Love ya man
Can we please get "All The Way", "Nixon", and "Malcolm X" reviews please 🥺
I've done all the way
@@CynicalHistorian oh awesome! I'm about to check that out. Any word on the other two?
@@williamcainevoiceacting nothing planned
@@CynicalHistorian I'll keep my fingers crossed
Can you do a video on the Nation of Islam?
That could be good and he could do it like with the black panthers video in the lead up to this video
sorry I had a fight in the middle of your black panther party
I mean
I know you can't cover every aspect and nuance of attitudes towards women across every chapter but I'm side-eyeing that section
Great Work.
Thank you... good points... PBS The Black Panthers: Vanguard of the Revolution is also a good watch cheers
I see his lordship graced is with presence. So kind of Him
The Black Panther turns startled!
Dynomite!
5:33 an “Anti-Lynching” mandate
I met members of the Hampton family. They warned Fred that politics would be rough. He should have listened to them
Feeding the algorithm.
so this is what it's Based on
please do a video on the movie chicago 7!
How loud is the voice of the unheard have to be before people finally start listening
Don’t forget to like and comment to appease the almighty algorithm 😁❤️👍🏼
Background song
I agree we should seek these organizations out and add thete philosophy into r life's daily.
Pretty sad this movie kinda bombed
I wonder how much money was made selling these guys berets and jackets
Off topic.
I just went on a Haunted tour in Santa Fe and the guide made a huge deal about the Native Americans keeping slaves and their supposed rampant cannibalism. 🙄
I dunno about that far west. But many tribes who were resettled to Oklahoma, in particular the Cherokee, did in fact enslave people.
Great video. Just on the Newton's alleged shooting however I think it would have been good for you to point out the unreliability of the witness testimony and all the shenanigans that happened during his trial
Maybe it goes without saying, but from what I've read the trail of the shooting of the police officer specifically was not a fair one
Hence why i emphasize the ambiguity of the situation. Ultimately the outside witness is always more believable than a defendant, but you get to choose what you believe. Discounting what the witness believed though, that's intolerably fascist
@@CynicalHistorian I don't agree with what you're saying but okay
Good movie
Nice
How dare you call yourself MESSIAH...