Thanks to CuriosityStream for sponsoring this episode. Goto curiositystream.com/cynicalhistorian to get a 30-day free trial And indeed, this has been *demonetized by manual review*
@@Sgtvalentini Folatplain should go online soon and there are all ready available streaming platforms (political content on porn hub was an issue for them) (Facebook might not be ethical or carry your target audience /offer you the same connectivity and platform) (patron can be set below cost) ect. (topic specific archives are also available and will continue to accept submissions).
Maybe they did read Angler and decided to missquote it on purpose. This film projects itself as very ideologically charged, a far-left distortion of reality. And the last scene in the movie makes it clear to me that they were self aware of how much of a farse it really is. The Oil map on itself is evidence enough that they manipulated the data on purpose to fit the narrative.
Mathematician and statistician here: The Big Short nails down the economical and math aspects of the whole house bubble. It really does and it shows it wonderfully. I will be willing to bet that because the subject matter already plays into McKay's biases then the historical accuracy might be better respected, but the math is flawless (accepting there will be simplifications).
Old comment, I know but Micheal Lewis' book is just a better source material to pull from anyway. As you said, The Big Short wasn't political, but told a gripping story of the people behind the event, mostly the winners. Fantastic book and movie. Lewis loves to geek out on the technical side without being technical in his books, which makes his books an easy and enjoyable read for anyone whether they are an expert in finance or not. I really didn't think they would be able to make that good of a movie of the book, but the combination of exposition dumps, voice over, and 4th wall breaks in the movie enhanced it in immeasurable ways to compliment the book's style of story, history, and education of the events took place.
After looking further into cheney, I was DEVESTATED to discover that the movie didn’t cover ANYTHING about his oversight of the invasion of Panama, and desert storm *AS HW BUSH’S SECRETARY OF DEFENSE* which could’ve given ENORMOUS insight into the window of cheney’s decision making. It’s crazy to realize the movie isn’t AS GOOD as I once thought. But the soundtrack is truly amazing.
I'm a liberal, but even while watching this and not knowing as much as you I felt it was really cartoonish. I was like: "there's no wayunknown psychopathic person that is capable of showing emotion here and empathy is this one-dimesional."
@@TheWazzoGames What do you mean? I don't recall ever doing that and if I did it was probably when I was like 13 or 14. Lol. I've always tried to be respectful on TH-cam.
I feel like this is a leftist version of a right-wing conspiracy movie about the deep state and the globalists and how they're gonna take away our peanut butter or whatever crap the QAnon people believe in nowadays.
@@banzaiperson you know the deep state was originally a leftist (not liberal) conspiracy theory that was co-opted by right wingers? The far right never supported the war in iraq the moderate right did. See Alex Jones old clips ranting about the war and bush. Alex Jones repopularised the deep state conspiracy to his right wing viewership but it was originally anti war leftists who had started it. Noam Chomsky comes to mind. It became more popular under Obama because a liberal was in power opening it up to more moderate right wingers who would previously ignore criticism to their side. The leftists at the time were entranced by Obama and thought he was a progressive so they didn’t further it much. Everyone at this point hated bush so it was more palatable to average conservatives. Trump banked on this when he came on the political scene because he was very tuned into the conspiracy right. This + pizzagate + multiple other conspiracies , some right wing some apolitical combined to become qanon.
Overall great review, but on the topic of Antonin Scalia the assertion that he wouldn't support "absolute executive authority" is wrong. He espoused that view almost word for word in a supreme court case & has been instrumental in pushing it towards the judicial mainstream among conservative judges. In Morrison vs Olsen (a case regarding the constitutionality of independent counsels) Scalia was the sole dissenter (arguing that independent counsels where unconstitutional). His main argument comes from his interpretation that article 2 "does not mean some of the executive power, but all of the executive power." I would agree that this is definitely not in keeping with the original intentions at the country's founding. But given that Scalia supported this argument I would see that as a hole in his "originalist" philosophy.
Ya, I struggled with that one too. Originalism is just a guise to make it sound more tame like we are getting back to something we had, it’s a branding technique. Originalists are radical in their own way.
It's one thing to have some historical inaccuracies for the sake of the story, but to deliberately ignore the facts and push a conspiratorial viewpoint is down right dangerous.
I think the film is packed with symbolism and I still love the film. Even if it gets a lot of things wrong, the thing is, is that lots of shady stuff has gone down in American politics and I think a lot of scenes seem very direct but they are meant to be taken differently and I really don't think it's trying to say Cheney created ISIS
Thanks for being able to have your heart in the right place AND being fair and differentiated to everyone including assholes. Needs more people like you in media and politics
Slight correction, and this probably sounds petty as hell, but Robert Muellers last name is pronounced Mull er, not Muell er. I think the less german pronunciation is because his family has been in the United States since the 1800s leading to a more americanized pronunciation.
problem with debunking conspiracists is they'll always come up with some new argument or just say you're in on it. Either way, it's useless to argue against them
also, that would definitely get demonetized. Here's the simple version: Oil may have been a reason for interest in the region, but to say the invasion was for oil would be conspiracism of the highest order. We have the reasons given by the administration and congress, terrorism and noncompliance. Were they good reasons? no, but no one can honestly deny those were the reasons
I think it's an overstretch to state that the film tried to imply that Lynne Cheney's father murdered his wife. It merely suggests that his well-documented history of domestic abuse and violence towards her was a substantive component of what drove her to suicide. It's a plausible, if speculative, version of events and would still account for Cheney's animosity towards his father-in-law.
I am a fellow historian and I have to say, your channel is one of the best when it comes to comprehensive and good faith r and a. You have what I consider to be an insultingly low amount of views and I hope it grows even more, good content is often so hard to find for historical subjects. I'm very happy you put your time into this for our benefit
I've seen the Big Short. You could say it's good at educating people on economy... or say its really talking down to its audience plus its humor often is out of tone with the rest of the picture especially when it breaks the forth wall.
Yes, I felt I was the only one who felt The Big Short was one of the most condescending movies I've ever seen. Absolutely no respect for the audience's intelligence.
@@jasonshaneyfelt1039 You can say that. But I am pretty sure that most of the audience needed some help with some of the terms and topics that the movie talks about, like the CDOs, the Bonds classifications and what shorting is and how it works. Although I did find the explanations more confusing than helpful.
I really hated the editing in it, it made it seem really silly and took me outta it. I like Adam McKay and think Christian Bale nailed him but even as a leftist thought it went too hard to make Dick Cheney as the guy who created every problem imaginable.
I enjoyed the movie, although I was already expecting that it wouldn't be factual. I generally liked the direction, the snarky humour was too much sometimes but the performances were good even if they're very cartoony.
I really appreciate the content and pointing out the inaccuracies, but I could not follow many of the inaccuracies that you pointed out because the clips were short and there is a lot of subtles with the material. Just another sentence of what is wrong and what we know to actually be the case would be sufficient.
Cinema is an art and not a science. The film Vice tries to exaggerate some things and not other things to make the point it wants to make. I still like this movie.
It’s very much a science. You don’t think of it if you’re just a consumer, but once you go into the details of how a film is made, yeah, it’s a science. Through subtle manipulation, they try to implant an idea and make you feel something. There’s formulas and proven results through them, depending on what you’re after. It doesn’t always succeed, but how many do you think saw Vice and are convinced this is 100% exactly what happened? McKay even put a post credits scene to make sure that anyone questioning it, looked like a caricature.
As an Australian that really has no opinion in American politics one way or the other, I really enjoyed this film, but I'm glad you made this video to sort the fact from fiction. I've come to take every bio pic with a grain of salt, but that does not mean you can not enjoy them. Zodiac is one of my favourite films of all time, but I still acknowledge that Fincher was very heavily biased into thinking he knew who the killer was. I have the same mindset here
I admire your want for these films to be historically accurate, but if a film is truly accurate but unwatchable, I think that defeats the purpose of the film. I agree intentionally misrepresenting history is wrong and stupid, but events have to be condensed and combined many times just to make events coherent to the intended audience. I love your content either way.
Well, this is both inaccurate and unwatchable, and it didn't merely condense or simplify events, it made events up out of whole cloth that are blatantly false based on publicly available evidence and even contradict their own source. The purpose of this film was to smear Cheney, pure and simple; not to inform anyone about anything. And it didn't even do a good job at that.
I hate Dick Cheney with every fiber of my being but yes this movie is disgracefully inaccurate. Killing Lynns mom is unforgivable, its on the level of oliver stones JFK In accusing innocent people of murder.
I got an idea of a few actors for Trump’s presidency pic: Mitt Romney....Mel Gibson Rudy Giuliani....Danny DeVito Melania Trump... Elizabeth Hurley Nancy Pelosi.......Sigourney Weaver Ivanka Trump......Emma Roberts Kellyanne Conway...Uma Therman Donald Trump JR......Will Arnett Eric Trump........Channing Tatum Paul Ryan.........Matthew Morrison Hillary Clinton....Meryl Streep Bernie Sanders.....Jonathan Pryce
okay, good video, but your insistence that the movie blames neoliberalism on the Kochs and Coorses doesn't make sense. even Jesse Plemons' narrator mentions that families LIKE the Kochs and the Coors (i.e. families that happen to run big ol' corporations) helped in the creation of think tanks (i.e. AEI, CATO, Heritage Foundation). CATO has actual connections to Charles Koch, for example - he was one of the founders. And it's weird that they've become so popular and considered worthy sources within the past 30 years.
2 years late but don’t let this movie give you doubts on Big Short. The Big Short is a fantastic film, I’ve read the book it’s based on and it’s a great movie that does the book justice and the events surrounding the 08 crisis!
I grew up in my school listening to all my teachers saying how evil the USA was in their actions against Iraq. But even I had my doubts about this movie. Thank You for making this video Cynical. I'm a Muslim by the way, so most of the time everyone I know had a biased opinion on the Bush Admin.
Everyone wants a big bad evil guy that they can blame everything on. They want to be able to look back and say "Yeah, I and everyone around me was afraid and willingly throwing away our rights and freedoms to feel less afraid... But if it wasn't for that one guy the bad stuff wouldn't have happened." It makes me really sad.
After watching vice, i didn't see cheney as a bad man, but rather a man who commited some mistakes. Besides, i love how the movie show the support cheney gave to his lesbian daughter
Thank you. I can't stand Cheney and the Bush administration but I found to Vice to be nothing more than a hatchet job that was more keen to 'educate' then actually be a good film. There were some moments I like showing Cheney's love for his family but this was too little to cover up the film failure on facts.
The Big Short movie is based on the book of the same name whose author did an incredible amount of research, including interviews with the real life characters, to make an accurate picture of the 2008 recession. The Big Short movie is very good and accurate. I think Vice would be a good movie if the events happened the way the movie portrays them, but of course that isn’t the case. I can’t watch this movie again just because it’s so inaccurate it’s harmful.
I had a lot of fun watching this movie, but as we were walking out of the theater I was explaining to my step-father which bits were exaggerated or fictional, which parts were reality, and which parts we don't know about but have theories concerning and how the movie chose theories that worked best for its goal. I enjoyed the film, but I worry sometimes that films like these are the reality for many of my fellow citizens.
Of course they are. You think all those things this guy brings up, were mistakes? McKay knew what he was doing, very well. Of course he already knew all that, he just manipulated it. Sure there’s a few people who will look into it, figure out what the reality is, but the vast majority will take what they’ve been told and run with it.
Even as a conservative, I was actually interested in this movie. Looking back, I didn’t care much for a lot of what the Bush administration did. I supported the Iraq war, but then, so did the democrats at the time (most of them) and I was only about 15 years old, and hadn’t developed my anti-war sentiments yet. I was just upset about 9/11, which happened when I was at a very impressionable age. But knowing the film is so dishonest to such an extreme extent really turns me off to it. What could have been an insightful look at Cheney is boiled down to nothing but lies and exaggerations that benefit no one and nothing except to further polarize the people of the United States.
I really enjoyed this movie, but that’s with the mindset of this is fiction. I find myself doing that often with “historical” movies, it gets past the this is inaccurate, and allows me to enjoy the movie as a movie, which for vice I really liked the style they went with. I get this approach doesn’t work for all, and doesn’t stop a movie from being criticized for being wrong, but it helps me to enjoy based on “true” events movies. Little side note, number 19 with Israel, I recall saying out loud that doesn’t make sense when I watched the movie.
Honestly, from this takedown and from the cast, the bad guy from Iron Man 2, the kid from Newsies, Micheal Scott, and the handbag saleslady would have made a better film.
Can someone give me a source for the claim Dick Cheney was not for regime change in the 90s? The man said after the Gulf War that we would always have to be involved in the Middle East.
Let us not forget that this movie is a comedy. The Director, Adam McKay, also directed Step Brothers and Anchorman. Saying this a BioPic is just not accurate. It's a Comedy with a Historical Fiction base. I thought this movie was a great laugh with creative liberties obviously taken. Adam McKay is a known Democrat and he obviously thought Dick Cheney was a joke.
Adam McKay is a great comedic director, but his historical films are nauseating (and yes, that includes The Big Short, which you should review). He wears his political bias on his sleeve, displaying it as a badge of honor, yet still has the nerve to pretend like everything he's portraying is pure fact (or if it's not true, that's only because it was worse than we thought and even we couldn't dig deep enough). With the over the top "this is based on a true story" proclamations at the beginning and the extreme over-reliance on narration, McKay tries to present his historical films almost as documentaries with dramatic re-enactments, all told in a super-snarky "just telling it like it is" kind of way. It's pure "Tell, Don't Show" and then of course it's all wildly inaccurate anyway.
The post credits scene was the most infuriating scene to me because after blaming the republican party for influencing the thinking of their constituency as well as elections with media it has the balls to claim neutrality and being fact based while calling republican voters stupid and ignorant
Excellent video. I had recently began looking into the politics of 2000-onward and was super excited to watch this movie after learning about Cheney-Haliburton stuff. I wish that a movie like this would actually put in the effort to make it true (which is not that hard given there resources). The story is actually there. The truth of the administrations decisions is interesting, and how Cheney links to it all is important too. Why lie and dramatize it so much when the truth is terrible to begin with?
I can't say I'm a fan of this film either. Even a rabid anti-Dick Cheney like myself could already smell bullshit before learning about all the inaccuracies from this review alone.
I always thought of Cheney as a 'bad guy' but not the Bond-level supervillain some make him out to be. Didn't see the movie though, because I can't stand the way Cheney whisper-speaks... or an impersonation of it.
With The Big Short the source material was from Michael Lewis who is pretty good at financial reporting. If they had primarily followed a single primary source here even if it was a point of view like Angler perhaps they would have done better - with this one it seems Adam McKay didn't chose a solid set of facts to riff off. It was just too much riff.
I personally believe never watch a dramatization of the story of a divisive person. Because it is going to be pretty obvious peoples biases. I saw this movie adds and didn't think much of it as I thought even the ads made Cheney look like a heartless person. I have no love for the guy but he does believe he did was right. This is coming from a pretty liberal guy.
I never saw this one after reading an article about how inaccurate and bad it was (I think it might have been the Slate article). Would you agree that Oliver Stone's "W" also did the same to Cheney? Great video.
I started watching Lambert’s stuff after I saw this video, but then I saw his video on Marxism and it’s recycled Cold War propaganda (he literally plays clips from Cold War propaganda videos as background to support his point) and said Marxism is just anti-semitism and equated it to Nazism and I’m just like “I’m out”. So needless to say I will not be paying to watch his documentary now. Not because I disagree with what he said, but because he doesn’t understand what he was talking about.
I actually enjoyed this film, but take everything in it with a “pinch of salt” as we say in England. As to the Big Short, that is also a good film and useful as it really did help people understand what happened when the Housing Market burst. However, I’d also take it with a pint of salt as the directors political leaning shine through pretty clearly there too. I would however, definitely recommend the book of The Big Short. Excellent piece of journalism and much more comprehensive
I literally only started looking into her last night. I like that she's a vet, but I think she's kinda all over the place. Also, she just had an exchange at the last debate where she said something like "we've done nothing in Afghanistan," and that is about as stupid a position as the one that she was trying to contradict. So not really liking her
@@CynicalHistorian I can get that. It must be difficult to hear that from her, considering your service in Afghanistan. The situation in the country changed because of US intervention, but it's hard to say whether it's for the better or for the worse.
Cypher. She thinks Oliver Stones Secret America documantry is a brilliant fight against the "official story". Cant say I'm a fan. Also her position on Assad is... problematic at best.
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez Yikes. I was complaining last night about her lack of historical perspective, but if she uses that coded language of conspiracism to support Stone's travesty, then you've managed to fully turn me against her
With the excellent job they did replicating the appearances of most of the major characters with casting and makeup, I was really excited about this movie. Rather disappointed at the inaccuracies, especially how it practically strips Bush of any responsibility for the Iraq War by painting him as a totally inept buffoon under the control of big bad Cheney. Very unfortunate waste of potential.
On a non-historical note, God I hated how they felt the need to make a topical joke about Trump and Clinton. Like, that joke has a shelf life of no more than a year and a half; it dates the movie.
0:39 OBJECTION! Vice is one of the top political drama movies of all time and of the previous decade. At least to me by the way. And mainly because it proves Christian Bale is a shapeshifter and because Steve Carell surprisingly did well at Donald Rumsfeld But I do agree with some parts of your criticism. Especially the movie implying Lynne's mother was murdered by her father. I agree with you on that, 100%.
By the way, what guy who gets a heart transplant is going to mention the donor's name? I mean it's in pretty bad taste considering the guy died. What do they expect Cheney to say? Oh I want to thank so and so for dying prematurely in a car accident so I could have this new heart?
Thanks to CuriosityStream for sponsoring this episode. Goto curiositystream.com/cynicalhistorian to get a 30-day free trial
And indeed, this has been *demonetized by manual review*
Sad to know TH-cam dose not value your content as much as we do.
@@Sgtvalentini
Folatplain should go online soon and there are all ready available streaming platforms (political content on porn hub was an issue for them) (Facebook might not be ethical or carry your target audience /offer you the same connectivity and platform) (patron can be set below cost) ect. (topic specific archives are also available and will continue to accept submissions).
Great video! Excellent evidence that "demonetized" does not mean "bad."
Maybe they did read Angler and decided to missquote it on purpose. This film projects itself as very ideologically charged, a far-left distortion of reality. And the last scene in the movie makes it clear to me that they were self aware of how much of a farse it really is. The Oil map on itself is evidence enough that they manipulated the data on purpose to fit the narrative.
00:45-“WILSOOON”!
Regardless of the opinion of the movie, you gotta admit Bale killed it.
Bro I literally just commented the same thing before I saw this. He did such a phenomenal job even better than Leo did in the Hoover biopic
Great movie but not an accurate one
@@grantsmith608how is not accurate
Yeah, I figured you would tear this one apart.
it was inevitable
Mathematician and statistician here: The Big Short nails down the economical and math aspects of the whole house bubble. It really does and it shows it wonderfully. I will be willing to bet that because the subject matter already plays into McKay's biases then the historical accuracy might be better respected, but the math is flawless (accepting there will be simplifications).
Old comment, I know but Micheal Lewis' book is just a better source material to pull from anyway. As you said, The Big Short wasn't political, but told a gripping story of the people behind the event, mostly the winners. Fantastic book and movie. Lewis loves to geek out on the technical side without being technical in his books, which makes his books an easy and enjoyable read for anyone whether they are an expert in finance or not.
I really didn't think they would be able to make that good of a movie of the book, but the combination of exposition dumps, voice over, and 4th wall breaks in the movie enhanced it in immeasurable ways to compliment the book's style of story, history, and education of the events took place.
So what I’m reading from this review is that Vice was basically a Dinesh D’Souza movie for liberals
that's a yoga master stretch....
@@andrewdeen1it was the most accurate comment I’ve ever seen.
After looking further into cheney, I was DEVESTATED to discover that the movie didn’t cover ANYTHING about his oversight of the invasion of Panama, and desert storm *AS HW BUSH’S SECRETARY OF DEFENSE* which could’ve given ENORMOUS insight into the window of cheney’s decision making.
It’s crazy to realize the movie isn’t AS GOOD as I once thought. But the soundtrack is truly amazing.
I'm a liberal, but even while watching this and not knowing as much as you I felt it was really cartoonish. I was like: "there's no wayunknown psychopathic person that is capable of showing emotion here and empathy is this one-dimesional."
@@TheWazzoGames What do you mean? I don't recall ever doing that and if I did it was probably when I was like 13 or 14. Lol. I've always tried to be respectful on TH-cam.
@@itsblitz4437 SJW's LOL, how old are you? You the type who think the Clintons are far left.
I feel like this is a leftist version of a right-wing conspiracy movie about the deep state and the globalists and how they're gonna take away our peanut butter or whatever crap the QAnon people believe in nowadays.
@@banzaiperson you know the deep state was originally a leftist (not liberal) conspiracy theory that was co-opted by right wingers? The far right never supported the war in iraq the moderate right did. See Alex Jones old clips ranting about the war and bush. Alex Jones repopularised the deep state conspiracy to his right wing viewership but it was originally anti war leftists who had started it. Noam Chomsky comes to mind. It became more popular under Obama because a liberal was in power opening it up to more moderate right wingers who would previously ignore criticism to their side. The leftists at the time were entranced by Obama and thought he was a progressive so they didn’t further it much. Everyone at this point hated bush so it was more palatable to average conservatives. Trump banked on this when he came on the political scene because he was very tuned into the conspiracy right. This + pizzagate + multiple other conspiracies , some right wing some apolitical combined to become qanon.
Does anyone ever think of Cheney as a poor man's Otto Von Bismark
@@itsblitz4437 yes
That… is an interesting comparison.
Overall great review, but on the topic of Antonin Scalia the assertion that he wouldn't support "absolute executive authority" is wrong. He espoused that view almost word for word in a supreme court case & has been instrumental in pushing it towards the judicial mainstream among conservative judges.
In Morrison vs Olsen (a case regarding the constitutionality of independent counsels) Scalia was the sole dissenter (arguing that independent counsels where unconstitutional). His main argument comes from his interpretation that article 2 "does not mean some of the executive power, but all of the executive power."
I would agree that this is definitely not in keeping with the original intentions at the country's founding. But given that Scalia supported this argument I would see that as a hole in his "originalist" philosophy.
Ya, I struggled with that one too. Originalism is just a guise to make it sound more tame like we are getting back to something we had, it’s a branding technique. Originalists are radical in their own way.
It's one thing to have some historical inaccuracies for the sake of the story, but to deliberately ignore the facts and push a conspiratorial viewpoint is down right dangerous.
I think the film is packed with symbolism and I still love the film. Even if it gets a lot of things wrong, the thing is, is that lots of shady stuff has gone down in American politics and I think a lot of scenes seem very direct but they are meant to be taken differently and I really don't think it's trying to say Cheney created ISIS
Thanks for being able to have your heart in the right place AND being fair and differentiated to everyone including assholes. Needs more people like you in media and politics
I enjoyed this episode very much. This is one of your best Based on a True Story.
miranda garcia same here
"I am certainly not that vindictive of him or anyone."
Lol. Meanwhile those wilson videos are just sitting there. (Just joking, btw)
Slight correction, and this probably sounds petty as hell, but Robert Muellers last name is pronounced Mull er, not Muell er. I think the less german pronunciation is because his family has been in the United States since the 1800s leading to a more americanized pronunciation.
I've heard it both ways on the news. Did you get that from his pronunciation?
@@CynicalHistorian Yes, he said it like that during the hearing.
@@CynicalHistorian Actually had to triple check. John Brennan introduced him in 2014 as Mull er. th-cam.com/video/Mk23KMosN_Q/w-d-xo.html
roger that, thanks
@@CynicalHistorian No problem. I think this is the only time I got a pronoun right. I'm the worst. I once pronounced someone name Beau as Be Owe.
Cypher. Could you make a video debuking the Iraq War for Oil conspiracy theory ? I would love to send that video to a bunch of people I know.
Rick Apocalypse well why not do a whole video on the lies and half truths of the Iraq war ? I would love to see that
problem with debunking conspiracists is they'll always come up with some new argument or just say you're in on it. Either way, it's useless to argue against them
The Cynical Historian ok
@@CynicalHistorian I'd still love to see it, though...
also, that would definitely get demonetized. Here's the simple version: Oil may have been a reason for interest in the region, but to say the invasion was for oil would be conspiracism of the highest order. We have the reasons given by the administration and congress, terrorism and noncompliance. Were they good reasons? no, but no one can honestly deny those were the reasons
I think it's an overstretch to state that the film tried to imply that Lynne Cheney's father murdered his wife. It merely suggests that his well-documented history of domestic abuse and violence towards her was a substantive component of what drove her to suicide. It's a plausible, if speculative, version of events and would still account for Cheney's animosity towards his father-in-law.
It was honestly one of the worst movies I'd ever seen. I wanted to walk out, because I was tired of having my intelligence insulted.
Love your channel bro
JJ my man, didn’t expect to see you here
I am a fellow historian and I have to say, your channel is one of the best when it comes to comprehensive and good faith r and a. You have what I consider to be an insultingly low amount of views and I hope it grows even more, good content is often so hard to find for historical subjects. I'm very happy you put your time into this for our benefit
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has decided this movie's interpretation of unitary executive theory is more accurate than Cypher thought.
I've seen the Big Short. You could say it's good at educating people on economy... or say its really talking down to its audience plus its humor often is out of tone with the rest of the picture especially when it breaks the forth wall.
You should read the book it is a page-turner
@@OMG3DBEAT I probably should. I doubt that version had Margot Robbie in a bathtub explaining the housing market.
I like the humour in both movies, Vice had some problems but I enjoyed most of the time.
Yes, I felt I was the only one who felt The Big Short was one of the most condescending movies I've ever seen. Absolutely no respect for the audience's intelligence.
@@jasonshaneyfelt1039 You can say that. But I am pretty sure that most of the audience needed some help with some of the terms and topics that the movie talks about, like the CDOs, the Bonds classifications and what shorting is and how it works. Although I did find the explanations more confusing than helpful.
I really hated the editing in it, it made it seem really silly and took me outta it. I like Adam McKay and think Christian Bale nailed him but even as a leftist thought it went too hard to make Dick Cheney as the guy who created every problem imaginable.
Oh god I can’t wait for the comments on this one.
Excuse me while I get my popcorn
I enjoyed the movie, although I was already expecting that it wouldn't be factual. I generally liked the direction, the snarky humour was too much sometimes but the performances were good even if they're very cartoony.
You know you are a baller when you shoot your friend in the face and then they apologize to you for getting in the way
The sad thing is this movie is amazing. If they just said inspired by true events, instead of based on true events it would have been perfect.
Most audience members take that to mean the same thing.
Since you do historical miniseries now and you mentioned Roger Ails, ... can you do the Showtime miniseries The Loudest Voice?
4:58 you really said it like "Mew-ler" 😂
I really appreciate the content and pointing out the inaccuracies, but I could not follow many of the inaccuracies that you pointed out because the clips were short and there is a lot of subtles with the material. Just another sentence of what is wrong and what we know to actually be the case would be sufficient.
I refuse to see this movie because I knew it was going to be a bunch of BS. Thank you for confirming.
Cinema is an art and not a science. The film Vice tries to exaggerate some things and not other things to make the point it wants to make. I still like this movie.
It’s very much a science. You don’t think of it if you’re just a consumer, but once you go into the details of how a film is made, yeah, it’s a science. Through subtle manipulation, they try to implant an idea and make you feel something. There’s formulas and proven results through them, depending on what you’re after. It doesn’t always succeed, but how many do you think saw Vice and are convinced this is 100% exactly what happened? McKay even put a post credits scene to make sure that anyone questioning it, looked like a caricature.
Bro your vids are raw as heck👍🏽👍🏽
As an Australian that really has no opinion in American politics one way or the other, I really enjoyed this film, but I'm glad you made this video to sort the fact from fiction. I've come to take every bio pic with a grain of salt, but that does not mean you can not enjoy them. Zodiac is one of my favourite films of all time, but I still acknowledge that Fincher was very heavily biased into thinking he knew who the killer was. I have the same mindset here
I admire your want for these films to be historically accurate, but if a film is truly accurate but unwatchable, I think that defeats the purpose of the film. I agree intentionally misrepresenting history is wrong and stupid, but events have to be condensed and combined many times just to make events coherent to the intended audience. I love your content either way.
Well, this is both inaccurate and unwatchable, and it didn't merely condense or simplify events, it made events up out of whole cloth that are blatantly false based on publicly available evidence and even contradict their own source. The purpose of this film was to smear Cheney, pure and simple; not to inform anyone about anything. And it didn't even do a good job at that.
I hate Dick Cheney with every fiber of my being but yes this movie is disgracefully inaccurate. Killing Lynns mom is unforgivable, its on the level of oliver stones JFK In accusing innocent people of murder.
I got an idea of a few actors for Trump’s presidency pic:
Mitt Romney....Mel Gibson
Rudy Giuliani....Danny DeVito
Melania Trump... Elizabeth Hurley
Nancy Pelosi.......Sigourney Weaver
Ivanka Trump......Emma Roberts
Kellyanne Conway...Uma Therman
Donald Trump JR......Will Arnett
Eric Trump........Channing Tatum
Paul Ryan.........Matthew Morrison
Hillary Clinton....Meryl Streep
Bernie Sanders.....Jonathan Pryce
Pretty Good, have Chris Evans as Joe Biden
I would love to see a video on the authenticity of The Big Short
Definitely big on finance idk if he would be qualified but I would love to see that either way
Thanks for trying to give a thoughtful and neutral analysis. I know that can be hard on internet. Hope you don't get too much hate in the comments.
"WE FUCKING DID OUR BEST REEEEEEEEE!
On point 18 the sources refers to media sources. As in when a reporter writes "A High ranking source is quoted as saying"
okay, good video, but your insistence that the movie blames neoliberalism on the Kochs and Coorses doesn't make sense. even Jesse Plemons' narrator mentions that families LIKE the Kochs and the Coors (i.e. families that happen to run big ol' corporations) helped in the creation of think tanks (i.e. AEI, CATO, Heritage Foundation). CATO has actual connections to Charles Koch, for example - he was one of the founders.
And it's weird that they've become so popular and considered worthy sources within the past 30 years.
Hal Emmerich You can do anything if u have enough money.
2 years late but don’t let this movie give you doubts on Big Short. The Big Short is a fantastic film, I’ve read the book it’s based on and it’s a great movie that does the book justice and the events surrounding the 08 crisis!
5:10 thank you for editing in one of my favorite 2004 election videos
Did you ever make an episode about _The Big Short?_
Misheard "cog" at 5:36 for something else for a second! Either word works though!
I found it odd this movie basically just ignores his second term
I grew up in my school listening to all my teachers saying how evil the USA was in their actions against Iraq. But even I had my doubts about this movie. Thank You for making this video Cynical. I'm a Muslim by the way, so most of the time everyone I know had a biased opinion on the Bush Admin.
Everyone wants a big bad evil guy that they can blame everything on. They want to be able to look back and say "Yeah, I and everyone around me was afraid and willingly throwing away our rights and freedoms to feel less afraid... But if it wasn't for that one guy the bad stuff wouldn't have happened."
It makes me really sad.
My favourite news channel.
After watching vice, i didn't see cheney as a bad man, but rather a man who commited some mistakes. Besides, i love how the movie show the support cheney gave to his lesbian daughter
Thank you. I can't stand Cheney and the Bush administration but I found to Vice to be nothing more than a hatchet job that was more keen to 'educate' then actually be a good film. There were some moments I like showing Cheney's love for his family but this was too little to cover up the film failure on facts.
6:08 Top of the line political cartoon right there!
This probably one of the most laughably inaccurate and dishonest movies I've seen in a very long time.
The Big Short movie is based on the book of the same name whose author did an incredible amount of research, including interviews with the real life characters, to make an accurate picture of the 2008 recession. The Big Short movie is very good and accurate. I think Vice would be a good movie if the events happened the way the movie portrays them, but of course that isn’t the case. I can’t watch this movie again just because it’s so inaccurate it’s harmful.
Appreciate the work man! 👍
*Seeing one Independent in the Senate vote "No"*
Bernie, is that you, old friend?
Despite it's falsehood and the ramifications of producing a film with such insinuations, I found it enjoyable to watch (not as a historian).
I was really annoyed when they talk crap about him getting that transplant. Like what else was he supposed to do.
I had a lot of fun watching this movie, but as we were walking out of the theater I was explaining to my step-father which bits were exaggerated or fictional, which parts were reality, and which parts we don't know about but have theories concerning and how the movie chose theories that worked best for its goal.
I enjoyed the film, but I worry sometimes that films like these are the reality for many of my fellow citizens.
Oh, they very much are reality for many. I've seen many, many, many of my more politically active friends taking this movie as pure gospel.
Of course they are. You think all those things this guy brings up, were mistakes? McKay knew what he was doing, very well. Of course he already knew all that, he just manipulated it. Sure there’s a few people who will look into it, figure out what the reality is, but the vast majority will take what they’ve been told and run with it.
Even as a conservative, I was actually interested in this movie. Looking back, I didn’t care much for a lot of what the Bush administration did. I supported the Iraq war, but then, so did the democrats at the time (most of them) and I was only about 15 years old, and hadn’t developed my anti-war sentiments yet. I was just upset about 9/11, which happened when I was at a very impressionable age.
But knowing the film is so dishonest to such an extreme extent really turns me off to it. What could have been an insightful look at Cheney is boiled down to nothing but lies and exaggerations that benefit no one and nothing except to further polarize the people of the United States.
"Shampoo filling area" in photo at 3:05 ????
I really enjoyed this movie, but that’s with the mindset of this is fiction. I find myself doing that often with “historical” movies, it gets past the this is inaccurate, and allows me to enjoy the movie as a movie, which for vice I really liked the style they went with. I get this approach doesn’t work for all, and doesn’t stop a movie from being criticized for being wrong, but it helps me to enjoy based on “true” events movies. Little side note, number 19 with Israel, I recall saying out loud that doesn’t make sense when I watched the movie.
Imagine choosing to watch Vice before the big Short, haven’t watched it because I knew it would be trash from the trailer
Is this Tobey Mcguire narrating the video?
Thank God you did this video, I watched it thinking it was accurate
Honestly, from this takedown and from the cast, the bad guy from Iron Man 2, the kid from Newsies, Micheal Scott, and the handbag saleslady would have made a better film.
Can someone give me a source for the claim Dick Cheney was not for regime change in the 90s? The man said after the Gulf War that we would always have to be involved in the Middle East.
Let us not forget that this movie is a comedy. The Director, Adam McKay, also directed Step Brothers and Anchorman. Saying this a BioPic is just not accurate. It's a Comedy with a Historical Fiction base. I thought this movie was a great laugh with creative liberties obviously taken. Adam McKay is a known Democrat and he obviously thought Dick Cheney was a joke.
Only am ignoramus can claim jokes negate the content off their message
You know things are bad when Slate thinks the film is too leftist.
Adam McKay is a great comedic director, but his historical films are nauseating (and yes, that includes The Big Short, which you should review). He wears his political bias on his sleeve, displaying it as a badge of honor, yet still has the nerve to pretend like everything he's portraying is pure fact (or if it's not true, that's only because it was worse than we thought and even we couldn't dig deep enough). With the over the top "this is based on a true story" proclamations at the beginning and the extreme over-reliance on narration, McKay tries to present his historical films almost as documentaries with dramatic re-enactments, all told in a super-snarky "just telling it like it is" kind of way. It's pure "Tell, Don't Show" and then of course it's all wildly inaccurate anyway.
As a cynical historian could you review max blumenthal's book, managment of savegry?
The post credits scene was the most infuriating scene to me because after blaming the republican party for influencing the thinking of their constituency as well as elections with media it has the balls to claim neutrality and being fact based while calling republican voters stupid and ignorant
Excellent video. I had recently began looking into the politics of 2000-onward and was super excited to watch this movie after learning about Cheney-Haliburton stuff. I wish that a movie like this would actually put in the effort to make it true (which is not that hard given there resources). The story is actually there. The truth of the administrations decisions is interesting, and how Cheney links to it all is important too. Why lie and dramatize it so much when the truth is terrible to begin with?
I can't say I'm a fan of this film either. Even a rabid anti-Dick Cheney like myself could already smell bullshit before learning about all the inaccuracies from this review alone.
I don't understand #4 (13:11) What is the movie saying here?
Have you considered doing a review of Oliver stone’s W.
i don't wanna, pls don't make me. I still have a little sanity left
The Cynical Historian thanks for doing a review of vice though
I’ve been waiting for someone to tear this monstrosity a new one
I always thought of Cheney as a 'bad guy' but not the Bond-level supervillain some make him out to be.
Didn't see the movie though, because I can't stand the way Cheney whisper-speaks... or an impersonation of it.
With The Big Short the source material was from Michael Lewis who is pretty good at financial reporting. If they had primarily followed a single primary source here even if it was a point of view like Angler perhaps they would have done better - with this one it seems Adam McKay didn't chose a solid set of facts to riff off. It was just too much riff.
Will you do the movie “on the basis of sex”which is about Ruth Ginsberg?
I'm deciding which to do next right now. But also, TH-cam would probably demonetize that, just as they did this one
The Cynical Historian ok
Yes finally mother of god it is up
Cue heavenly choir
I personally believe never watch a dramatization of the story of a divisive person. Because it is going to be pretty obvious peoples biases. I saw this movie adds and didn't think much of it as I thought even the ads made Cheney look like a heartless person. I have no love for the guy but he does believe he did was right. This is coming from a pretty liberal guy.
Understandable coming from a conservative guy....
I'm a lefty in my ideas, but even I was like this is quite far fetched, loved the directing style tho.
I never saw this one after reading an article about how inaccurate and bad it was (I think it might have been the Slate article). Would you agree that Oliver Stone's "W" also did the same to Cheney? Great video.
I haven't seen it recently enough to say so, but Oliver Stone is the worst director imaginable to cover the topic
Letters from Iwo Jima?
I'd like to hear about your graduate school studies on the Neoliberalism rise some time. I would like to hear your view. Good video.
Can you do a review on the historical context of Team America?
that actually sounds like a lot of fun. maybe I'll do that next year when the 4th rolls along
I started watching Lambert’s stuff after I saw this video, but then I saw his video on Marxism and it’s recycled Cold War propaganda (he literally plays clips from Cold War propaganda videos as background to support his point) and said Marxism is just anti-semitism and equated it to Nazism and I’m just like “I’m out”. So needless to say I will not be paying to watch his documentary now. Not because I disagree with what he said, but because he doesn’t understand what he was talking about.
Na disagree this was great movie
I actually enjoyed this film, but take everything in it with a “pinch of salt” as we say in England.
As to the Big Short, that is also a good film and useful as it really did help people understand what happened when the Housing Market burst. However, I’d also take it with a pint of salt as the directors political leaning shine through pretty clearly there too. I would however, definitely recommend the book of The Big Short. Excellent piece of journalism and much more comprehensive
One of the biggest war criminal/profiteer
Considering your strong anti-war position, what's your take on Tulsi Gabbard? I know you're not that political, but I'd love to hear your opinion.
I literally only started looking into her last night. I like that she's a vet, but I think she's kinda all over the place. Also, she just had an exchange at the last debate where she said something like "we've done nothing in Afghanistan," and that is about as stupid a position as the one that she was trying to contradict. So not really liking her
@@CynicalHistorian I can get that. It must be difficult to hear that from her, considering your service in Afghanistan. The situation in the country changed because of US intervention, but it's hard to say whether it's for the better or for the worse.
Cypher. She thinks Oliver Stones Secret America documantry is a brilliant fight against the "official story". Cant say I'm a fan. Also her position on Assad is... problematic at best.
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez Yikes. I was complaining last night about her lack of historical perspective, but if she uses that coded language of conspiracism to support Stone's travesty, then you've managed to fully turn me against her
@@CynicalHistorian It was in a New York Times article. Let me find it.
With the excellent job they did replicating the appearances of most of the major characters with casting and makeup, I was really excited about this movie. Rather disappointed at the inaccuracies, especially how it practically strips Bush of any responsibility for the Iraq War by painting him as a totally inept buffoon under the control of big bad Cheney. Very unfortunate waste of potential.
On a non-historical note, God I hated how they felt the need to make a topical joke about Trump and Clinton. Like, that joke has a shelf life of no more than a year and a half; it dates the movie.
0:39 OBJECTION! Vice is one of the top political drama movies of all time and of the previous decade.
At least to me by the way.
And mainly because it proves Christian Bale is a shapeshifter and because Steve Carell surprisingly did well at Donald Rumsfeld
But I do agree with some parts of your criticism.
Especially the movie implying Lynne's mother was murdered by her father. I agree with you on that, 100%.
Bale was great as Cheney though
By the way, what guy who gets a heart transplant is going to mention the donor's name? I mean it's in pretty bad taste considering the guy died. What do they expect Cheney to say? Oh I want to thank so and so for dying prematurely in a car accident so I could have this new heart?
Bruh... I thought it was vice city for a second
I hated The Big Short which is why I probably hated Vice.
Who would The Cynical Historian vote for if he had to choose for president-Woodrow Wilson or Dick Cheney?
Small thing u got wrong is a angaler is any fisherman he was fly fishing
Unitary Executive in this movie is now reality so..um..Catchup: Academics.
Edit, I ment to write this in 2024. So I mean...get on it?