BASEBALLS IN SPACE! - LOL - You hit this one OUT OF THE PARK! OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE! You touch on a number of important topics in this video. The ND movement - and the reality of the often harmful mix of NPD/BPD and ASD people. My father had some personality disorder. It was from abuse from his NPD mother.. I tried for all my life to forgive and understand but ended up cutting all ties when it was obvious he would never change. He was "only" emotionally abusive but this included physically threatening. I'm only beginning to understand how my ASD makes me vulnerable to such personality types. It is our nature want all people to be good, honest, caring, empathetic people. And be forgiving to a fault to the point of sacrificing our own safety. I agree with supporting NPD/BPD who are sincerely and actively trying to change their behavior, but the truth is, at least from an ASD perspective, it puts us in vulnerable and potentially harmful situations. With personal freedom comes personal responsibility. Nobody has the right to hurt others intentionally or unintentionally. I do feel sad for those who cannot control these behaviors, but it is my right to chose what people I feel safe and comfortable around. I find I naturally believe in the ND movement because I truly believe being autistic has its gifts as well as not being autistic. It is a different "normal" and I believe people who are different do have something positive to contribute to society. We need diversity because it expands life's potential. I'm on a roll.. sorry for the long post... Your videos are valuable contributions to our community Liz! - Thank you!
Thank you for this. I just encountered a “neurodivergent” space online where everything and everyone was being labeled as neurodivergent; even people with BPD and NPD. I’m a survivor of multiple narcissistic relationships; both at work and in my personal life. There is no way for me to coexist in a space where I am being told to accept someone at face value that has a disorder where they are known for their unreliable personal narrative or manipulative tendencies. Frankly, the whole line that “narcissistic abuse doesn’t exist” feels like straight up gaslighting! It 100% exists and I experienced it first hand! People with NPD don’t get to tell me what I did or did not experience, and they certainly do not get to control the narrative of their victims! If they don’t like the truth, maybe they should do some self-reflection and go to therapy rather than blaming the people whom they have hurt! If this form of “neurodivergence” acceptance/celebration continues to be pushed, I will no longer participate in it. I have every right to define the boundaries of who I will and will not associate with for my own mental health, and nobody with NPD has any right to force me to accept them or their toxic behavior. You want my acceptance and/or trust? Earn it. Nobody gets a free pass anymore; especially if someone tries to blackmail me with the accusation that I’m being *ableist* for having boundaries in the first place.
I mean it's complicated. The underlying trauma in BPD, NPD, etc. cause different neurotypes to develop, so they are neurodivergent. And of course many cluster b people aren't necessarily abusive or dishonest. But things go wrong when we turn being neurodivergent into only a positive thing. We can't deny the increased risk of abusive and manipulative behaviors to please their egos. That's not good for anyone involved.
Please listen, you experienced abuse, you're an abuse survivor. Nobody will take that away from you. But it's emotional abuse, not narcissistic abuse. People with NPD don't abuse people in an special way, there's not something, a way, they can abuse that others can't. And it is ableist to label NPD as an abusive disorder. And yes, everything that is not neurotypical, is neurodivergent. Every disorder is neurodivergence. I have NPD, and as a person online I can't say I'm not abusive and expect you to believe because you don't know me and that's what any abuser would say, but a disorder doesn't make anyone inherently abusive, and there's also no special way a person with a disorder can abuse that neurotypical can't. Being an abuse survivor makes you as deserving of respect as anyone else, but so do people with an specific disorder, and also things get even more ironic when most NPD people have NPD because of abuse, or trauma. It's a traumagenic disorder. I'm not trying to gaslight you, I'm not saying you didn't go through abuse, it is simply ableist to call it "narcissistic abuse" when it's called emotional abuse, please understand that. I hope this doesn't come off as rude, I just wish for NPD to be as respected as any disorder, and also understand respecting NPD doesn't mean respecting abuse nor bad behaviour, because NPD doesn't mean that, just like any other disorder doesn't, if someone is bad, they have to take accountability and nobody deserves to be judged or generalized or dehumanized because of a disorder, those things do not contradict each other. It's important to bring up NPD and ASPD in the neurodivergent movement because we're called demons, we're stigmatized, those disorders are seen as "evil abuser manipulator disorder", it's so important to humanize them, to humanize us. I consider myself a pretty normal human being, my partner who has NPD and BPD, she as well. I perceive things different and can have wrong thoughts, I'm aware, I don't wish anyone actual harm, the same thing with my partner. People need to realize seeing some disorders as inmoral or moral is ableist, harmful and dangerous... I'm also autistic and have ADHD, it saddens to see such positive and supportive things when researching on those two, while getting antagonized and villainized when researching NPD, all neurodiverce deserves respect and acceptance... I'm sorry you went through abuse, but don't throw narcissists under the bus by labeling as "narcissistic abuse", it is emotional abuse, that anyone, sane or not, NPD or not, can inflict. And respect is lost, not earned, once somebody abuses or behaves wrong they don't deserve respect. You own everybody respect, any disabled person, everyone deserves to be treated like a person until they don't treat others the same way.
@@emartin29Here’s my issue with your statement that “narcissistic abuse” is just an ableist term for emotional abuse. The abuse I received from multiple narcissists, including my partner, was not just emotional in nature. In fact, it followed a fairly predictable pattern. It’s why you can Google search the symptoms of “Narcissistic Abuse” and find a list of common characteristics of this abusive dynamic that include gaslighting, emotional and verbal abuse, projection, isolation, threats of physical violence and/or physical abuse, devaluation, censorship, shifting goalposts, and love bombing. I can’t help it if narcissists have a predictable pattern of abuse. It just so happens, it was exactly this pattern that allowed me to recognize the covert narcissism in my partner and finally escape after specifically Googling “symptoms of narcissistic abuse”. I also can’t help that narcissistic personality disorder is often caused by abuse just as they cannot help that they were abused. However, there is never an excuse for a victim of abuse to turn into an abuser. I get that individuals with NPD have a core wound that drives their actions. I get that they are still human. I get that NPD is anything but neurotypical. However, I still have the right to set a personal boundary on who I will and will not trust and/or associate with based on if I believe that person to be a threat to my mental and/or physical health.
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BASEBALLS IN SPACE! - LOL - You hit this one OUT OF THE PARK! OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE! You touch on a number of important topics in this video. The ND movement - and the reality of the often harmful mix of NPD/BPD and ASD people. My father had some personality disorder. It was from abuse from his NPD mother.. I tried for all my life to forgive and understand but ended up cutting all ties when it was obvious he would never change. He was "only" emotionally abusive but this included physically threatening. I'm only beginning to understand how my ASD makes me vulnerable to such personality types. It is our nature want all people to be good, honest, caring, empathetic people. And be forgiving to a fault to the point of sacrificing our own safety. I agree with supporting NPD/BPD who are sincerely and actively trying to change their behavior, but the truth is, at least from an ASD perspective, it puts us in vulnerable and potentially harmful situations. With personal freedom comes personal responsibility. Nobody has the right to hurt others intentionally or unintentionally. I do feel sad for those who cannot control these behaviors, but it is my right to chose what people I feel safe and comfortable around. I find I naturally believe in the ND movement because I truly believe being autistic has its gifts as well as not being autistic. It is a different "normal" and I believe people who are different do have something positive to contribute to society. We need diversity because it expands life's potential. I'm on a roll.. sorry for the long post... Your videos are valuable contributions to our community Liz! - Thank you!
Thank you for this--survivor in all the ways here, also. And I appreciate you sharing your thoughts here. Glad I stumbled on your channel.🙏🏻
Thank you for this. I just encountered a “neurodivergent” space online where everything and everyone was being labeled as neurodivergent; even people with BPD and NPD.
I’m a survivor of multiple narcissistic relationships; both at work and in my personal life. There is no way for me to coexist in a space where I am being told to accept someone at face value that has a disorder where they are known for their unreliable personal narrative or manipulative tendencies.
Frankly, the whole line that “narcissistic abuse doesn’t exist” feels like straight up gaslighting! It 100% exists and I experienced it first hand! People with NPD don’t get to tell me what I did or did not experience, and they certainly do not get to control the narrative of their victims! If they don’t like the truth, maybe they should do some self-reflection and go to therapy rather than blaming the people whom they have hurt!
If this form of “neurodivergence” acceptance/celebration continues to be pushed, I will no longer participate in it. I have every right to define the boundaries of who I will and will not associate with for my own mental health, and nobody with NPD has any right to force me to accept them or their toxic behavior.
You want my acceptance and/or trust? Earn it. Nobody gets a free pass anymore; especially if someone tries to blackmail me with the accusation that I’m being *ableist* for having boundaries in the first place.
I mean it's complicated. The underlying trauma in BPD, NPD, etc. cause different neurotypes to develop, so they are neurodivergent. And of course many cluster b people aren't necessarily abusive or dishonest.
But things go wrong when we turn being neurodivergent into only a positive thing. We can't deny the increased risk of abusive and manipulative behaviors to please their egos. That's not good for anyone involved.
Please listen, you experienced abuse, you're an abuse survivor. Nobody will take that away from you. But it's emotional abuse, not narcissistic abuse. People with NPD don't abuse people in an special way, there's not something, a way, they can abuse that others can't. And it is ableist to label NPD as an abusive disorder.
And yes, everything that is not neurotypical, is neurodivergent. Every disorder is neurodivergence. I have NPD, and as a person online I can't say I'm not abusive and expect you to believe because you don't know me and that's what any abuser would say, but a disorder doesn't make anyone inherently abusive, and there's also no special way a person with a disorder can abuse that neurotypical can't. Being an abuse survivor makes you as deserving of respect as anyone else, but so do people with an specific disorder, and also things get even more ironic when most NPD people have NPD because of abuse, or trauma. It's a traumagenic disorder.
I'm not trying to gaslight you, I'm not saying you didn't go through abuse, it is simply ableist to call it "narcissistic abuse" when it's called emotional abuse, please understand that. I hope this doesn't come off as rude, I just wish for NPD to be as respected as any disorder, and also understand respecting NPD doesn't mean respecting abuse nor bad behaviour, because NPD doesn't mean that, just like any other disorder doesn't, if someone is bad, they have to take accountability and nobody deserves to be judged or generalized or dehumanized because of a disorder, those things do not contradict each other.
It's important to bring up NPD and ASPD in the neurodivergent movement because we're called demons, we're stigmatized, those disorders are seen as "evil abuser manipulator disorder", it's so important to humanize them, to humanize us.
I consider myself a pretty normal human being, my partner who has NPD and BPD, she as well. I perceive things different and can have wrong thoughts, I'm aware, I don't wish anyone actual harm, the same thing with my partner.
People need to realize seeing some disorders as inmoral or moral is ableist, harmful and dangerous...
I'm also autistic and have ADHD, it saddens to see such positive and supportive things when researching on those two, while getting antagonized and villainized when researching NPD, all neurodiverce deserves respect and acceptance...
I'm sorry you went through abuse, but don't throw narcissists under the bus by labeling as "narcissistic abuse", it is emotional abuse, that anyone, sane or not, NPD or not, can inflict.
And respect is lost, not earned, once somebody abuses or behaves wrong they don't deserve respect. You own everybody respect, any disabled person, everyone deserves to be treated like a person until they don't treat others the same way.
@@emartin29Here’s my issue with your statement that “narcissistic abuse” is just an ableist term for emotional abuse. The abuse I received from multiple narcissists, including my partner, was not just emotional in nature. In fact, it followed a fairly predictable pattern.
It’s why you can Google search the symptoms of “Narcissistic Abuse” and find a list of common characteristics of this abusive dynamic that include gaslighting, emotional and verbal abuse, projection, isolation, threats of physical violence and/or physical abuse, devaluation, censorship, shifting goalposts, and love bombing.
I can’t help it if narcissists have a predictable pattern of abuse. It just so happens, it was exactly this pattern that allowed me to recognize the covert narcissism in my partner and finally escape after specifically Googling “symptoms of narcissistic abuse”.
I also can’t help that narcissistic personality disorder is often caused by abuse just as they cannot help that they were abused. However, there is never an excuse for a victim of abuse to turn into an abuser.
I get that individuals with NPD have a core wound that drives their actions. I get that they are still human. I get that NPD is anything but neurotypical. However, I still have the right to set a personal boundary on who I will and will not trust and/or associate with based on if I believe that person to be a threat to my mental and/or physical health.
Lmao okay ableist
cope