ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- In this episode, Dr. Ettensohn draws on psychodynamic dimensional models of personality development to describe narcissism and NPD at the psychotic level.
Characterized by compromised reality testing, symbiotic object relations, low integration between parts of the self, and the use of reality-distorting defense mechanisms, psychotic-level NPD represents both the least developmentally mature and most severe form of the disorder.
This episode explains the spectrum of personality development, from psychotic to healthy. It then explains the psychotic personality organization in detail, providing descriptions of specific defense mechanisms utilized at this level. Finally, psychotic-level NPD is described.
References:
Berney, S., de Roten, Y., Beretta, V., Kramer, U., & Despland, J.-N. (2014). Identifying psychotic defenses in a clinical interview. Journal of Clinical Psychology, 70(5), 428-439.
Kernberg, O. F. (1984). Severe personality disorders: Psychotherapeutic strategies. New Haven: Yale University Press.
McWilliams, N. (2011). Psychoanalytic diagnosis: Understanding personality structure in the clinical process (2nd ed.). Guilford Press.
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Your compassionate approach to NPD is so refreshing. Thank you.
Having this disorder is genuinely frightening at times - realising how much of life hasn't been truly real or authentic, and that almost all issues with relationships, parenting, friendships and career are due to defective, maladaptive behaviours and actions. The struggle to feel connection, love and inner peace is exhausting, and many of the feelings and experiences enjoyed by others often seem inaccessible. It can be a very lonely existence, even when around other people.
People with NPD don't want to be bad people, or inflict hurt on anyone. But they sometimes do so because of their fear response, self-esteem, and inner anxiety/turmoil that pervades many parts of their lives and decision making. NPDs are demonised for their destructive behaviours, and there's also so much anti-NPD content online - which means trying to research the condition can unfortunately reinforce an already negative self image and feelings of shame.
But when people realise why we sometimes act like frightened or angry children inside adult bodies (trying to navigate a world that is both confusing and scary), then this horrible condition can be reframed as childhood trauma sometimes being re-enacted on others - rather than premeditated, deliberate acts of aggression or hurt. It doesn't make some of our behaviours acceptable, but its helpful to see NPD as a complex disorder of mind instead of someone with a rational brain that wants to cause harm. It's like a Jekyll and Hyde split personality, which the person has very little control over when triggered. This is what makes life so difficult for partners, children and family members, as they never know who they're going to get (and neither do we...).
As a scapegoated child of a grandiose father, I've come to realise I created a false self a long time ago to cope with and navigate life. Despite telling myself I would never be like him, I repeated many of his behaviours and actions - like a computer program on self destruct (along with many narcissistic collapses and a feeling of mortification which is truly terrifying).
I wouldn't wish this condition on anyone, and the hardest part about becoming self-aware is the realisation of all the damage done, the un-reality of much of our life experience, plus the constant desire to go back and do things differently. My longing to go back and have a normal healthy childhood, and re-live adult life more fully with more love and connection is overwhelming (probably not helped by an NPD's propensity to use fantasy as a coping strategy).
Contrary to popular belief, narcissists do feel regret and guilt, and we do apologise. I also think we are capable of feelings of love and empathy, and that many of us are self-aware for a long time - just not necessarily that we have NPD. Many seek help or read books on anxiety, anger or depression as they know something's not right and they want to change. Many also thrive (as I did) well into their 30's before life's challenges and responsibilities begin to magnify the NPD traits and test our fragile defences. The false self is maladaptive, but it can serve us well - until unfortunately it can't cope with the overwhelm any more.
It's genuinely tragic that people with NPD were traumatised in childhood by the people meant to be their caregivers. Then we can often repeat this traumatisation on others, and as a result we feel even more shame, anxiety, detachment and depression when life unravels, and we realise who we are (and what we've done). Medication and therapy can help, and I think healing/recovery of the inner child and true self is the main goal - assuming it isn't damaged beyond repair. Psychadelics are also showing some therapeutic potential for self compassion, connection, and understanding the subconscious thinking patterns (and hopefully re-wiring some of them).
By far the scariest part of the condition is when you begin to wonder if your false self is all you have in life, and whether your true authentic self can be accessed and integrated. The irony is that after years of feeling special and different to others, what we actually want is to be normal and 'ordinary', and feel the full emotions and human connection so cruely denied to us as children.
This channel is a big help, and I'm so grateful for the time taken to create such insightful content. It means a lot that you understand and empathise with the NPDs complex inner world 🙏
@@stevesherwood2944 thank you so much for such an eloquent description
Very well expressed.
It's very difficult to experience lifelong abuse by a narcissist family member, and subsequently a partner(s), when one can see that the narcissist struggles internally, while making your life, and their life, and their children's lives into a kind of hell.
I feel compassion for someone with NPD; and that makes it extra painful when you have to choose to limit contact, and to quit sharing love, and life, and a sense of family with them.
And thank you for taking the time to write all of this
@@flash_flood_area
Yes, it's such a destructive condition for everyone involved. One of the difficulties is that the early signs can often be diagnosed (and treated) as anxiety, depression, anger issues, or something else. It probably takes a while for a narcissist to become fully self-aware they have NPD, and it's often after a life crisis - when the damage has already been done.
Also, the diagnostic tools (whether via a clinician or online) often focus on the grandiose-type traits, which can lead a covert to think they must have something else wrong with them. Narcissism has long been assumed to present mainly as arrogance and extroverted behaviours, but it's much harder to detect/diagnose with covert/vulnerable types. Coverts also rarely follow through with the discard phase of the relationship cycle (as we fear abandonment), so it's up to others to leave us instead (a situation we paradoxically create, yet do not want...).
My heart goes out to you if you've suffered due to someone with NPD, but I can assure you that we're not as conscious or deliberate in our actions as is often portrayed. It's more like a hijacking of the brain, and an automatic response that's extremely hard to regulate. In our Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde-type split personality, the 'Hyde' is always way more powerful than the 'Jekyll' when activated, and the problem is - the more the negative/destructive aspects are dominant, the harder it becomes to be calm/positive/constructive in our reactions (and hence the cycle continues).
I think if diagnosed early enough, then perhaps couples/family therapy can minimise the fallout and reduce the damage. But proper self-reflection isn't something narcissists do often, unless they're in a life crisis/collapsed state (and need to work out why). It's almost like a form of schizophrenia, which much be confusing (and scary) for loved ones.
It's so sad that the suffering this disorder creates (for everyone affected) was as a result of the people tasked with taking care of us, when we were at the most vulnerable and formative stage of development. But then sadly many disorders of the mind are forged when we are young, and don't fully unravel until the stakes are really high - when partners, children, careers, and other aspects of life are impacted.
@@flash_flood_areaWhy would you shun and isolate someone for having mental challenges? Sounds like 1930s Germany.
Any well explained information like this is desperatly needed for all humanity to study.
Dr Ettensohn and heal NPD is the best resource on TH-cam for understanding NPD with compassion
@@Benjaminpyatt Since the word compassion gets thrown around a lot by those who are victimized by narcissists, I recommend you not attempt to “heal” a narcissist…you WILL be played…make HG Tudor your new best friend and give up science for spirituality…”A Course in Miracles” is your best bet with this condition…it cannot be cured via science because it is a spiritual sickness…any defense mechanism against fear and terror will be a formidable opponent…so, as someone with a degree in psychology with both parents suffering with NPD, I can confidently tell you that this channel is not going to be helpful for anyone imo…this man, like most psychologists, doesn’t understand the complete lack of incentive for a narcissist to give up this defense mechanism…they are terrified of awareness …so, it’s a fail every time…if you understand how trauma affects the brain in early childhood you will see what you are up against…most people do not because essentially EVERYONE suffers from this condition to some degree post television and film…it will take you for a ride…enjoy it!❤️
I was afraid you had stopped making vids and I'm happy to see you and hear your soothing, friendly, methodical voice again.
Your book helped save my relationship, helped save me. I really can't thank you enough, I practically feel like a person nowadays.
@bluecollarmage4512 - I’m still here. 😊 Glad to know you’ve found my content helpful!
I wish every psychotherspist was like you.
@@lilafee8 They are.
@@Johnconno That's not true. And I should know. I have been to many.
Once you are done with this series, can you please give a case study of someone who came out on the other side of the psychotic or borderline level of narcissistic defenses? When you have a lot of people splitting that are the victims it's nice to have a tangible example of the success. To show the timeline someone went through to slowly develop their ego would be fascinating and hopeful to people struggling with this in their life.
@@huhwah5387 Someone that didn’t develop a ‘self’ as a child, didn’t learn how to ‘other’…has no boundaries; that’s how they will continue, there’s no hope of them returning to early childhood for a 2nd chance to become a complete and empathetic human.
@jimstenlund6017 - Much psychotherapeutic technique is based on the notion that the patient must first be allowed to regress within the safety of the therapy relationship before they can gradually emerge with new capacities.
@@healnpd Are you treating the false self or the original self in someone with NPD?
My ex was absolutely psychotic. His eyes would grow wide and he would yell at me for hours making allegations of things I “ planned “ to do to him it was frightening for me it badly affected me all the while he was planning behind my back to betray me . I try to have empathy for people who exhibit NPD but when they harm others especially you it’s difficult
Can you recognize where you fall into this personality organization? Before I healed I was between borderline and neurotic. I’ve now evolved into healthy.
@@michellesecrett1 I didn’t have the issue my ex did i thought he had temporary moments of psychosis it was disturbing 😳. This video is highly accurate he would have these outbursts and breaks when he was under stress normally of persecution he is always a victim he always rewrites events to sympathise with himself including him SA me .
@@isobelangeli2053 yes my Exes eyes would get huge like he just stepped out of a war zone and sometimes he would go crazy and there was no coming down until the next day and then the apologies and love bombing would happen again.
@@maleeoctavia same . I used to even think he had multiple personalities .
@@isobelangeli2053almost all SA perpetrators go psychotic and into victim mode when they SA. Truly willing bold purposeful SA peeps are more rare.
Usually the SA perps were in some delusional state of being wanted and desired when they did the SA, and their entire world collapses when they realize they not only weren’t wanted, but that they’re also a grimey disgusting rapist
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. The only way we truly heal is through compassion. Always speak of compassion first. I'm humbly encouraged for the first time.
For all the attention “Narcissists” get online this channel is massively slept on!
What advice might you give to someone trying to become a psychologist looking to specialize in personality disorders?
A new Heal NPd video droped, let's goooo.
Thank you mister Ettensohn
You’re very welcome! 😊
@@healnpd if you haven't already, I'd be interested in hearing you specifically discuss gaslighting tactics in NPD. I am referring to things like, what are they achieving by throwing a person in a state of shock (crazy-making) and how they're perceiving the person's reaction of pain and hurt. One very common thing is "Fake discarding" where it seems things are going very well but the NPD suddenly rages over a small thing (planned) and then tells the person "it's over!" which leaves someone in shock and deeply hurting. The word seems to be that they are doing it to go cheat, but I've spoken to a diagnosed NPD who told me he would wilfully drive around for hours with nothing to do, just to make his girlfriend think he was cheating. When she'd text him, he'd purposely take a while to respond so it would cause her more anxiety & upsetment. I asked him why he did it and he said "just to piss her off." There was a distinct inability for him to see the severe damage being done nor did he know why it was entertaining to do this. For the partner who may be Codependent, or have attachment anxieties, it can be torture to repeatedly put someone through this kind of trauma. She may lash out in anger, send numerous texts/calls, in a fit of anger, believing he's knowingly inflicting pain. He then makes it appear he's giving the partner "another chance". And holds her at a distance using her response to his gaslighting as a weapon to suggest SHE is the problem.
I don't think anyone is giving any real reason why they're doing this and what's the connection to childhood; whether they know they're risking losing the relationship, and how you would get through to someone who is doing this. I'm tired of hearing "You MUST go no contact!" when they themselves don't even understand the patterns. I would love to hear your assessment on this entire dynamic, in any way you're able to deliver it. You really are the best on youtube in this subject.
Found this channel via a Tumblr post, by what I hear those with NPD tend to be quite approving of this channel.
Dr Ettensohn is merely the best.
@@youtubeuniversity3638 NPD and bpds love to wallo in the mud
Healing NDP toward more human is truly a noble attempt. They'll also thank you if they reach the point of experiencing normal life all its natural colorful glory the universe intended.
"merely"
... Really 😒
@@AB-lp8jd Really! It's true without qualification.
Thank you for making these videos. I used to be one of those people that frequented the echo chambers which stigmatized and dehumanized people who suffer from NPD. I am currently in a relationship with a girl who I suspect has NPD or perhaps BPD and your videos have helped me to have as healthy of a relationship with her as I possibly can. It’s difficult and requires a lot of effort but thanks to you and your content, things seem to be getting better as time goes on.
Yessss!!! Thank you for covering the psychotic organisation. Love your content and work Dr Ettensohn. I put your videos on when I'm lonely and spiraling and you bring me closer to stability. Thanks for giving me this resource & reassurance
❤️
Dr. Mark,
You are the Beast & the BEST of youtube!
I learned so much from your short videos then millions of hours of other videos. Your teaching is superb 👏
THANK YOU 💕
Very informative and compassionate video. Thank you Mark for your honest and hopeful video for those dealing with developmental issues. ❤
You have the best videos on NPD out there and your understanding of psychology is just phenomenal.
Thank you for educating us. Always looking forward to news videos.
I very much appreciate what Dr. Ettensohn is doing in this video and what he plans to do with future videos. Again he explains things clearly and with authority but always with compassion. He never strays far away from the idea that people can heal despite their diagnosis or their level of disorder.
I worry about this video. I hope he will post the next one soon. I am active in communities of people who either are diagnosed with NPD or feel that they have characteristics in line with the diagnosis of NPD, but I also see a lot of people who still have a lot of misconceptions about what NPD is. I even witnessed quite a few people who self-diagnose in ways that are not authentic or helpful. I think these people are searching for answers, but are obviously not qualified to make that diagnosis of themselves. It seems like what's being described in this video is rare. It seems like this is at an extreme edge of a spectrum of personality organization that is not saying that often. I would hope that in future videos, he will discuss that. I worry that people are going to pick up on some of the things described in this video and say... Yes! That's me. As a person with diagnosed NPD, I recognize that this is not me. Pieces? Small parts? Absolutely. But I am much more interested in his next video when he will talk about borderline organization. Not to be confused of course with borderline personality disorder.
Let's not forget that he's making these videos to not only help those of us with NPD learn about ourselves and to heal but also to educate the public. Like any clinician, to do his work effectively he has to discuss the topic as a whole. Each of these videos is not meant to be the key that unlocks all of our doors and frees us.
I think if you're watching this video and you haven't watched many of his other videos, I would go back and look at some of the videos where he talks about the overview of NPD and the misconceptions about NPD.
While these videos are incredibly helpful and always crafted in a way that makes it much easier for us to understand these complex issues, they are not a license for us to become therapists or psychologists. Watching the video three or four times and picking up on the terminology doesn't mean we understand it the way that he does.
We are at a crossroads. We are at a moment in time that will not likely be seen again as far as NPD is concerned. Those of us diagnosed with this disorder are not only struggling internally with the healing process but we are also living in a world where we are treated like villains and monsters. And this treatment is tolerated and promoted and exaggerated in order to get likes on social media. Or to sell books or to sell tickets to lectures. It is a time for us who have been diagnosed and for those who have legitimate reasons to believe that they may be showing sign as a pathological narcissism or NPD to stand up for ourselves. To force the world to recognize that we are people with a mental illness that does not define us. Our disorder does not determine our fate or our future. And it is a disorder that can be addressed through therapy and from which we can heal. This entire channel is called HealNPD. More than one professional believes that this is possible. This is one place where you can get help and resources if you want to get better.
@artisaline - Yes, the subject of this video concerns the extreme end of a spectrum. I feel that to understand what is happening at the borderline level, we need to know what is on both sides of the “border.” It is difficult to describe psychotic phenomena precisely because it concerns the sort of experience that self structure and identity are organized to defend against. I tried in this video to emphasize that psychotic organization is a place we have all been early in our development, and tried to explain why it can be so terrifying and reality-distorting. As you said in your comment, borderline experience dips down into the psychotic level at times. It also sometimes pops up into the neurotic level. I’m looking forward to making that next video, but I’m also a little intimidated. Fingers crossed I get it right! 🫡 Thanks for watching.
@@healnpd "Getting it right" isn't a risk at this point. There is so much misinformation out there and so much misunderstanding that everything you say and post is helpful to those of us who are seriously looking for answers and for help. Obviously, it's social media and people can misconstrue anything. But thoughtful examination of NPD from the point of view of a professional who has invested a considerable amount of time and effort into understanding this disorder is always going to be helpful. There is a segment of your audience that rightfully has turned to your channel and to your podcast for help during a time when it feels like no one wants to help us. I look forward to the next video, although I realize these videos are not easy to make and they take time.
@artisaline - Thanks for your feedback. It’s important to keep the bigger picture in mind. I can get a bit lost in my concern about “getting it right,” and it’s no help to anyone if that keeps me from producing helpful content. 🫠
@@healnpd this video confuses me if i could fit into this category, which makes me very anxious. as the former commentor said, we are no professionals to self diagnose. but some of us are looking for answers. that looking for answers for me is partly because of the confusion in my daily life and also former misdiagnosis and unsuccessful treatment. i am aware that i see my projections (probably not always) but deep down it is this existential fear that you mention here. maybe borderline level experiences this aswell ? i wish to talk to somebody about this, who understands this. i probably will talk about this concern to my therapist.
but: still, i want to thank you for all the work you are doing here. i guess a lot of people can relate to the pressure of „getting it right“ - i think its also a complicated topic to an audience who is not from the profession. i think its not easy to make, so thank you for your effort again!
edit: some things you mention i can somehow relate to and some i dont experience at all. and the intensity maybe plays a role as well in term of „diagnosing one self with a particular disorder or personality functioning“. its tricky. one should also be aware if ones personality has splits that makes it difficult to see the whole picture.
@fliegender-teppich - I think it's important to remember that psychological experience can be fluid and that there tends to be overlap between adjacent levels. Borderline psychology can dip down into psychotic experience under heavy stress. It can also pop up into neurotic experience when things are going relatively well. Similarly, neurotic psychologies can drop down into borderline level experience, etc. Try not to think of these in a diagnostic sense so much as a range of functioning where a person’s psychology tends to sit. We also don’t leave the previous levels behind as we develop. They remain as layers of experience that inform perception.
You’re the best. I watch all of your videos regardless of relevance. Thanks always!
I appreciate that!
same same. I still love and care for people who I know are struggling with this in many forms. It also gives me a much better perspective on politics, since I can clearly see when certain people are speaking and acting from their disorder rather than any rational principles
You just described my older brother to a T. What can a family member do if such an individual refuses to seek help? He’s convinced that everyone needs therapy except for himself.
P.S. Love the channel, love your demeanour and the work that you do. Much gratitude.
Thanks for popularizing a compassionate view of narcissism. I recently witnessed my (former) good friend with narcissistic tendencies destroy their closest friendships and hurt everyone around them, except for their new source of validation. It was like a switch flipped. They had even told me before they struggled with these things, and confessed how guilty they felt to one of us while this was happening during a moment of clarity. Even though we were all getting attacked by them, their attacks didn't make sense to us and mirrored their own vulnerabilities, and I recognized it for what it was and felt terribly for them. We wish they didn't have to put this pressure on themselves and realize we always saw through these behaviors and accepted them for their weaknesses as well. Even though I'd read up on narcissism before, the way you talk about narcissism applies to this person so accurately that it's like you already know them. I've shared your channel with other's in our circle to help them understand what's going on as well.
I’m excited for the next episode. Glad to have you back!
Your usage of artworks to illustrate the state of a disordered person is great!
i used to see those "shadows" as a kid too. it was nightmarish trees and maleficent-like witches and all manner of cartoonish monster animals.
So many people have problems with differentianting themselves from others. I think much more people work on borderline level than on healthy or even neurotic. More than half, I think.
It shows, when so many people perceive actions of others as a personal attack.
Agreed. I think it's quite common. Also keep in mind that everyone can operate in this mode when they perceive danger or threat. If someone is trying to rob you on the street, you probably aren't seeing them as a whole object or the situation in a nuanced way.
I was in a relationship with a woman with NPD for 15 years. I stayed 15 yrs too long. Under the spell and manipulations, i fought for her and protected her until our split. Never had anything but love and empathy shown to her. She from out of the gate, began a smear campaign against me that I was an abuser. She is malevolent and tried to kill me with her bare hands, has had other people in works to kill me, comitted arson against my property, tried to alienate our child from me. That is only a drop in the bucket. I will keep it short.
I stayed way too long, as not to abandon our child for the most part. When dealing with NPD/Borderline/ Antisocial Psychopath behavior, it is only a loser for all involved. Pathological liars will never come clean or be str8 with you. Parasitically machiavellian behaviors with control/ power, all that matters over everyone else. It is what they need. They indirectly destroy the good for them as well as they only see the power and control they so desperately need. You, your child or whomever will only suffer by trying to help. Leave it to the therapists. Helping and being successful at fixing her sabotage, only created contempt and rage with a desire to do me in. Be careful
I hear you. Siblings as well.
I hate reading stories like this. I hope you’re healing. I stayed 25 years too long. Our love and dedication does not help them so we have to get away just to save ourselves. The prize we get is being characterized as the abuser after enduring unbelievable abuse at their hands.
The good doc has a noble intention but I fear some of these patients will destroy him before he is able to truly help them.
Glad to find this channel! Watched quite a few Sam Vaknin videos over the past 1.5 years or so. I'm excited to find a channel discussing similar issues from a bit more of a straightforward Anglo-American style.
He explains so well. Makes me think i have npd. Trying to learn.
Thank you so much for this video, it explains everything i am experiencing and living with. Has given me hope.
Clarity in delivery is good. He doesn’t ride the typical NPD YT bandwagon. Would I take a chance with any P-doc therapy-speak? Nope.
Thank you for explaining in such informative depth what many including myself find confusing about someone we care about.
Glad it’s helpful. Thanks for watching!
Wow, i love your way of explaining this!!!
I feel overwhelmed and hopeless, I don’t see any resources to help me and I’m not sure if I fall into this category but hearing this kind of information is very distressing. Growing up with a schizophrenic mother has been unbearably difficult, nobody understands the kind of issues and struggles I’ve had to endure. It’s not possible for me to think that somehow my reality tested mind is somehow not accurate. Accuracy is really important to me. I have taken so much care to try to tolerate and get through the unimaginable stress I’ve had to deal with at home. Utter chaos and paranoia from my mom constantly. I also dislike people who are overly humorous and I really hate that so many people get to live their lives in a healthy carefree way while I have to continue to suffer.
It really pains me if I really am this way, bc I took so much care and already worked SO hard to develop the right ways to be different from my mom (I don’t think I’m overly paranoid but this video has given me anxiety about this). I’ve had to fight my mom every day on her irrational anxieties and paranoias and it isn’t my fault I picked up a few bc I was hearing her say things and at first it didn’t make sense but over time some of the things she said sort of made sense to me. It doesn’t make sense that this could be a bad thing if it helps one feel better and tolerate extreme amounts of stress. I am so burned out at this time. I really don’t know what else can be done. There aren’t really therapists to help with the personal issues I have been dealing with it alone.
@michelle1813 - It sounds like you've been through a lot. I would expect someone who was raised by a parent with schizophrenia to struggle with some anxieties and other issues related to those early experiences. Try to be patient and understanding with yourself, especially in light of all that you've been through.
@@healnpdthank you Mark, I really appreciate your response. I will try to do that.
People who have/employ a sense of humor aren’t “carefree” as you stated. Robin Williams comes to mind as an example. Be careful not to adapt a ‘victimhood’ mentality.
@@jimstenlund6017I’m not adopting a victim mentality if I have been a victim countless times in my life. I was saying that it’s unfair when I see people who are able to be humorous or have humor bc their situations aren’t severe enough that their humor is literally taken away. Hence if you viewed the video Mark talks about the level of adaptability that these people can secure. I am personally a victim of this. I used to have some sense of humor but these days can’t even laugh bc of just how badly my life has been. Saying that one is Adopting a “victimhood” mentality can be victim shaming for people who really are suffering.
@@michelle1813 I never said you had a victimhood mentality, read my comment again.
So then Psychopathy and NPD are fundamentally developmental conditions that can be resolved through life experiences and integration that fosters developmental dynamics. They are just stuck where they originally got stuck.
Thanks for your work.
No, it’s been confirmed through brain scans that psychopathic people literally have other structures in the brain compared to other/“normal” people. It’s not a disorder that can be healed through therapy or positivity - the brain is differently constructed on a physiological level.
A psychopath going through therapy will only learn how to get even better at psychopathy. They don’t respond normally to therapy like other people, or positive life experiences or integration. If there is ever to be a “cure”, something on a more physiological level is needed. Positive mental experiences does not affect a person with psychopathy’s brain structure the same way as for others.
In my experience so far (in my 60s)… they can quickly fall back off a cliff during periods of stress. I strive to maintain a calm household, and to try to compensate for his work stress as I am able.
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Dr. Ettensohn, first, thank you for the incredible work you do! Your videos have been so informative, and also provide much solace to those who have been impacted by individuals suffering from Pathological narcissism. It helps us see those individuals from the compassionate lens.
Can you elaborate a bit on the extensive lying that individuals with pathological narcissism engage in; more specifically, do they believe in the lies they tell? How are we able to distinguish whether they believe in the lies, and what do the lies say about the persons level of organization? Thank you much!
Thank you so much.
Dr Ettensohn, thank you for your videos. As a recipient/ ex partner of a narcissistic partner with clear psychotic tendencies, can you explain further on the process of the romantic partner 'becoming the bad object' and delve deeper into denial with delusional projection: devaluing others while claiming to be devalued by them; persecuting others while claiming to be persecuted by them; aggressing against others while claiming to be victimized by them. It's heartbreaking being unable to help and be with someone you really loved but as mentioned by some others, the damage/ abuse caused is simply too great. Many thanks again.
This was so helpful and hopeful. Thank you Dr. Ettensohn!
😊
I have an uncle (my mom's bother) who is very kind, but got the brunt of a lot of extreme psychological and physical abuse by my grandparents that the 3 siblings endured. He has lived an almost captive life. (The only place he's ever been aside from their home was Vietnam as a comms tech- during draft times he volunteered as an AF techie to avoid the draft into infantry as there isn't a confrontational bone in his body, and his 9-5 job for yrs. No friends, never a romantic partner, nor even a date.) He's shockingly smart & a curious learner. But because of this severe sheltering, he seems sort of trapped in a mental prison of their insanely dysfunctional "reality". So when you speak of impaired development and the psychotic blur of reality- I can see that in him where he has a very fragile sense of self and is afraid to attempt anything really. His brother is flat out psychotic and out of touch with reality, but clearly took on the NPD mantle their mother had, and is quite malicious, ego-driven, and dark in his alternate take on reality- in fact, continuing the psychological and financial control & abuse towards his brother. They share a home. What I'm wondering, is if there is anything to be said about treating induced psychotic traits as a result of captivity & exposure/indoctrination into someone else's alternate reality of beliefs- especially after so long? Like maybe a Stockholm Syndrome or cult type thing almost. He is 76 now & sadly may never experience life outside that house. Even if my older uncle dies first- I hope I can lead him to help but it seems grim. The part where you mentioned hearing those abusers in their heads really hit home, as I know that's his self-talk 24/7, even without his brother's abuse.
That is so sad :-(
Are you asking on reddit forums? I would start there.
@rachelbartlett1970 no, I'm not on Reddit, and I'd much rather consult a professional at some point, but I appreciate you. Thank you.
This was a really interesting discussion, particularly with the positioning of more than one pattern of problems together with developmental psychology. Thanks for putting this together.
As a scientist, I particularly found useful your description around the lack of reality testing, which relates well to the nature of scientific knowledge: it's not about being right, but about generating options and systematically ruling out those that are wrong, leaving one with a reliable though always provisional explanatory basis for action choice. It doesn't mean a cold lack of feeling, and it absolutely requires creative imagination, but this is all bounded by logical and empirical testing, which is what I'm hearing you say is lacking for people with these kinds of problems.
Thank you, I learned a lot about personality organization from this video.
Thanks for watching!
You're a great educator! Thank you so much.
You're very welcome!
Omg. I think you just described my ex best friend! I thought she was schizophrenic but this sounds much more like her, hearing and seeing dead people, demons, angels...
Excellent video ! I admire the depth processing of the psychological concepts used in your work!😊 wow!
Explained simply and well - thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
This was so helpful to me in understanding myself. Thank you!
Glad it helped. 😊
Can't wait for the next one on borderline organization!
I love this channel! I start almost every morning with one of your videos to set the tone for my day! Can’t wait for the Borderline organization video to drop! Maybe one day I’ll have the courage to ask someone to move their car rather than find a parking spot further away to avoid the confrontation lol 😅
Thank you! Already waiting for the next video
Amazing video with a highly detailed explanation! Loved it, thank you!
@annedebackker - Thanks 😊
That was me in my 20's unfortunately, that was a very dark and chaotic time
how.. how did you pull through? I don't know what to do anymore.
Thank you. Very good. Suggestions: 1. Don't zoom in on the quotes, I have to pause the video to read, as they go out of the frame of the screen. This zooming adds nothing but confusion. 2. You mention the next video, seems logical it should be one of the options that pop up at the end, if this is in fact a feature you have control of. I want to watch it, but now have to search for it, which equals a mild annoyance and less likely to continue. Thank you again for your contribution. Once again seeing the long-term costs of ineffective parenting, seems ear there should be far more interventions and support for parents, not just the old-fashioned assumption that the kids belong to the parents and help is only offered if there are egregious problems.
Dense and helpful. So many of the points seemingly apply across many categories ... quite striking in that regard.
Do you believe NPD is a secondary defense (higher functioning) against BPD?
I don’t think the relationship between bpd and npd is linear in that way. I think there is some overlap, and the vulnerable experience in npd can be very similar to bpd.
Once you understand the correlation between NPD & BPD and that there are various levels that go along with the specific ones in placed in Cluster B you’ll have a better mental picture of how much you’re encompassing. For example 40% of people afflicted with BPD also have combined NPD with it.
me when i got fired and went on a downward spiral
wonderful video ❤ im very interested in learning about these developmental levels, so im looking forward to your video about the borderline one as well. i would appreciate it if you added more detailled "grandiose" examples, as im currently working towards deconstructing and learning about mine. thank you for making informative videos for us with npd in midst of all this chaos!
Wonderful video as usual
I think the take-away for me is that these people need a lot of compassion, because now I know that they have the very debilitating fears of a small child. But it is frustrating to have to always be in the nurturing role to terrified "children" that aren't your own without any support. Being a healthy adult is hard enough. I feel like in the area I live 2/3 people are at this stage of development. Personally it would be a dream if most people in society could be relied upon in the way you would expect an adult to be reliable. It would be nice if you could make small requests from people and for them to react positively and not like you just insulted their entire bloodline. I once told a flight attendant that they were talking too loudly in the cabin and she was disturbing me bc I felt ill and I was trying to sleep. For extra context, the flight was delayed and we were sitting in the plane for 3 hours, not moving, no engine running to drown out her voice. I was feeling claustrophobic and and really wanted to sleep to escape the scenario, but I couldn't do to her incessant yapping. And unfortunately nothing she was saying was at all engaging or interesting to me, it was just plain irritating. Despite how irritated I was, I was feeling nauseous and weak and as soon as the attendants came down the aisle, I said my request as sweetly as I could. I'm a young woman that wears pink almost everyday and I think I have a soft bubbly demeanor. So they way she looked at me like a rabid dog and how she started yelling and defending her right to talk...it was just something else. I'm not a scary person, and I wasn't trying to make her feel bad. I was annoyed but you would not have been able to detect ANY anger from the soft way I made my request. But she WAS trying to scare me and intimidate me. I was scared honestly. And all the passengers around me also got scared. They got scared like we were going to fist fight! Me! (This was American Airlines in Miami, FL btw)
It's really bonkers the things most people get triggered by. I feel like I don't know how I can possibly soften my personality even more than it already is. I guess I have to try bc if most people are at this level of development...I have to adapt. I have to be the great big mommy of all mommies to everyone it seems...ugh...I feel resentful already...I wonder do psychologically healthy individuals have a duty to be stewards to those who need extra nurturing? Like I said I'm from Miami, FL and I just feel the people here are so immature, so aggressive, so ghetto, so uneducated. I don't know if it is the heat or the Hispanic culture. But I feel in other areas of the U.S. where there are more white people its just not like how it is here. Maybe I'm wrong and ghetto white people are just as unhinged. My neighbors play loud music frequently until wee hours of the night, many times, multiple neighbors all playing music all at once. People talk loud here, they wear too much perfume. Everything is an assault to your senses, no one has any public decorum. You would think I'm a boomer the way I complain but I'm 32. I just want to move some where away from people atp.
P.S. I apologize for not using the technical jargon in this video, I'm not a psychologist and I feel more comfortable expressing things as I understood them. But I do very much appreciate learning the technical terms in the professional format of this video. I appreciate your expertise and how you deliver the information. Your calm demeanor made the learning experience enjoyable, despite this being a subject matter that is very triggering, at least to me. Much Love
This is fascinating, subscribed
If you want to be objective, can you create a video about victims of narcissistic abuse?
@layn6516 - To my mind, pwNPD are victims of narcissistic abuse. Using a child to satisfy an adult’s self-esteem needs is often what creates NPD. Narcissistic abuse propagates generationally and also gets reproduced in romantic and other close relationships. In this way, all of my videos are about narcissistic abuse - just not in the popular sense of the term. For more on my definition of narcissistic abuse, see this video: th-cam.com/video/e0lz7WC_9b8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xXQq6JelHmSIEE6G
@@healnpd thanks.
@@healnpdyes, but people of NPD also traumatise and victimise other people than their own children, and it does certainly not always create more NPD people. It’s not a straight down linear thing that always creates NPD in their victims. Most victims of people with NPD get their lives ruined, without ever themselves resorting to NPD themselves / victimising others as a result.
@xyz7572 - I don’t think anyone is claiming that there is a linear relationship between any of these factors. Human psychology is complex and highly individual. But I absolutely recognize patterns in the narratives of the people I treat, and similar patterns have been written about in the clinical literature for over 50 years.
Hi Doc, your content is salient and much appreciated. The yt algorithm has yet to evolve where consumers aren’t shoved endless content from less than a handful on a given topic.
If not covered on your channel already, I’d love to hear about “vicarious narcissism” (as seen in corporate culture) and iatrogenic narcissism (where mh provider may omit/overlook exclusion criteria and diagnose/treat as narcissism. Many thanks
Omg, I now know wtf my mates doing.... he isn't a narc but the psychotic prganisation is 1000% him
I came back to this wonderfully refreshing channel to quarrel about there being no updates...and then it hit me: maybe the reason Dr Ettensohn doesn't reach levels of "content production" of the likes of dr ramani is simply because he actualy spends his time working with pwNPD (as opposed to those full-time content-creators peddling stigma and misinformation). Or at least I hope that's the reason.
@robekpl - You are correct. I have a practice and it’s hard to find the time to write and produce videos. The next one is in the works, I promise!
Hi, I've just found your channel, and it's the best resource so far that has really considered what NPD truly is, I'm planning on using some of your videos to educate my therapist. If you feel qualified to talk about this, could you do a video on how autism and narcissism is linked? I feel personally, that the specific shame and not getting your needs met as an autistic child, could be linked to developing narcissism as a defense mechanism against that. Especially being praised when you start 'acting normal' aka masking.
If someone has all or most of the psychotic symptoms but they are somewhat willing to recognize that they have NPD and go to therapy what are the chances that they will improve and how long do you think it would take for them to no longer qualify as NPD? I realize this is circumstantial based but I'm wondering if there is a broad time frame if the person is willing to put in the work. I would say it's not super severe but moderately in most of these areas. She just recently (about a month ago) became willing to admit it and go to therapy.
I appreciate the insight so I have a better understanding of what to expect and if I want to keep allowing my boundaries to be broken if there is little to no hope of change.
Realistically a few decades
Be careful and be on your toes.
People with NPD don’t respond like other people to therapy. Therapy helps NPD people get even better at narcissistic control and hiding it and using it to control others.
My brother has this psychotic dissociation. His psychologist got him addicted to emergency 2 week Ativan. Now going on 2 years of daily use. My brother thinks he's not even there. It's terrifying. I hate these incompetent psychologists and the US predatory pharma industry
Do you think that extreme Contagion OCD leading to taking over the lives of loved ones could be an attempt to enact omnipotent control? [I have in mind someone with many markers of NPD]
@jasonramsey3993 - Not sure about that, but I do think that symptoms of mental illness are often overdetermined (meaning that they are driven by multiple issues simultaneously) and also accomplish multiple functions.
@@jasonramsey3993 literally YES
I understand, by the way, that NPD and BPD are separate conditions. But there is apparently significant overlap in the symptoms and other defining criteria.
It would be nice if there was some kind of consensus in the relevant circles about treatment. I keep hearing and seeing different things. Here you ware claiming that NPD/BPD is treatable. But I see a lot of input from other therapists, psychiatrists, etc., claiming that they are not. That, in fact, any one who tries to treat these conditions is wasting their time. And that the only way to deal with people who have these conditions is to simply avoid them.
Yeah, unfortunately a lot of popular psychology flat out denies help to pwNPD. But in the case of psychologists who specialize in treating NPD, the consensus is that it's, well, treatable.
Banger
thx for your work
looking forward to the next video
well, I also can say things similar to a man with a dog. And it's not like I don't understand that you probably don't threaten me.
In my experience, it's better to be more vigilant than less, even if a threat is non-existent. You never know for sure.
You read about Bundy's victims? All of them were pretty naive and none vigilant. And you know how they ended up.
If someone would consider me psychotic because of being hypervigilant, let it be.
Reality distortion is the key factor.
LOVE YOUR VIDEOS POST MORE PLEASEEEEEEEE❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I think the different levels of organization can be understood from a neuroscience perspective as differences in cognitive development and functioning, which are significantly genetically-biologically determined.
It would be wrong to assume that a higher level of functioning is due to more effort invested. Its the other way around: higher functioning probands have to make less effort to achieve the same or better results than lower functioning ones.
For example: being sociable and empathetic and agreeable is natural to them, while it‘s challenging for those with a more neurotic / psychotic / antagonistic / avoidant inclination
This model is not based solely on cognitive development. It is looking at cognitive and emotional integration, distress tolerance, and self image. These factors are rooted in both genetics and environment.
So enjoyed this video, Dr. Ettonsohn. Is it possible for someone to be mostly in the neurotic or possibly borderline range while still struggling with some psychotic features daily? Like body dismorphia or illness anxiety?
Also, are obsessive thinking or features just a step below the healthy range? I noticed that on the chart you included, but not entirely sure how it works :) would love to learn more. Amazing content!!
Illness anxiety and body dysmorphia are not necessarily psychotic. It varies from person to person. The psychotic quality of an issue has to do with the extent of reality distortion involved. I have worked with people who have both of those issues and would not describe as psychotically organized.
@@healnpd thank you for the reply. Looking forward to the rest of the videos in this series ☺️
My so called friend believe just doing stuff to help them and no one else was best instead of team work, was like talking to a child and never felt okay to talk to
I needed these videos ty! I am diagnosed BPD since I was about 23 I've been diagnosed three times on 54 now. I just got out of a relationship that lasted six years with a diagnosed sociopath actually. We were toxic which was unfortunate because we were so compatible otherwise and we had a lot of fun. I believe we both regressed Bluegrass in this relationship him to the point of psychotic organization now I have a name for it. I would say this is all for naught but it helped me immensely understand. I handled things completely wrong and I have a hard time rubbing my mind around NPD which I know is ironic because I'm borderline but I tend to work on myself and I acknowledge my diagnosis. He did too until he relapsed Fred apparently he thinks that I'm stalking him, that I'm obsessed with him and then I'm going to shoot his new girlfriend. I obviously didn't handle that very well because it's not reality based at all and I would say things like....... we would does say hurtful things to each other that probably didn't help. Me being borderline I would verbalize my pain he's very good at blending in blending in. He's very good at looking well put together when actually I'm probably the only person in the room who knows he's delusional right now but all your videos just gave me a better sense of what to do and how to handle someone with npd. It's just really helping me I understand it more I'm really thankful I found these videos. I know for a fact he triggered me and now I know how much I triggered him. Which ain't wouldn't do on purpose ever.
I am almost tempted to ask you if you Des Moines Iowa area that work with borderline personality disorder. I know there's DPT therapy but there's other types as well and you know. Borderlines on a spectrum and we're all different and I am as well. I would love to find a doctor that has a lot of experience with these things my childhood was...... lemme just say with all the trouble I've had, so much, I srikl know it could have turned out way worse. I think ANYONE who learns to communicate wirh and read into a cluster B sucxessfully will someday change how people view us, which will help.us integrate with other people. We're social creatures but having a personality disorder gets in the way of our very existence. It's sad actually I have so much to offer. It's as if I speak Japanese on Mars though on most days. Thank you for studying this mental illness.
what if you lose your sense of self due to an understanding of buddhism and its not a bad thing per se?
Could it also be possible that the mind was at a point mature and developed, but rather bc of too much emotional stress later on, that causes it to dysregulate? Ie stress burnout, going thru trauma 100 times daily, etc
What is the opposite of sublimation? As in impairing the growth of it, what is the energy projected that insists it does not develop. Because I know this is the area of addiction, to hide away these urges as habit. It really is a habit, I think I picked my face for thirty years because of unhealthily not acknowledging this lack in me
I didn't quite understand the concretization thing, you kinda only gave a fictional example that I wouldn't know how to apply to reality, but apart from that it's a great video!
@still_leuna - TH-cam blocked my previous comment because I used a prominent conspiracy theory as an example. Concretization involves converting a thought, feeling, or idea into something “concrete.” In the Babadook example, the mother’s feelings of grief and anger are experienced by her as a literal thing in the world that is persecuting her.
I'm really shocked that a clinician would think that NPD could be healed. I would never underestimate the ability of a narcissist to pretend to be healed and enlightened.
@ad6417 - We have made significant strides in understanding the psychopathology of personality disorders. Do you also balk at the idea that BPD can be healed?
CAN you heal NPD?
Hi. What is NPD? That would be a good starting point. Social media creators tend to forget that there's a whole world of acronyms and viewers don't know all, and don't know immediately which word that acronym means. I ended up not watching the video because I didn't understand what it's about and don't want to Google things all the time.
th-cam.com/video/I2fD65wy48I/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bHChx5xnkd-tgbx1
@@healnpd Thanks
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Is this generally from O.Kernberg? Isn't 'Neurotic' a bit of a misnomer, why was it called 'Neurotic'. I thought being/acting Neurotic is generally bad? Or what am I missing?
Thanks again for the videos! It is awesome that you explain all this stuff in an accessible and simple way.
It’s from multiple psychoanalytic traditions - mostly ego psychology and object relations. The term ‘neurotic’ was used to identify the kinds of issues that Freudian analysis was focusing on. These are mostly depressive- and anxiety-based problems having to do with the mind’s attempts to conceal its own motivations from itself.
So, if I'm understanding right, personality disorders are basically adaptations made by the mind to deal with [Insert Bad Things]?
@youtubeuniversity3638 - They are defensive adaptations, yes. Reality doesn't do whatever we want automatically; others can't read our minds and understand our thoughts, feelings, and intentions completely; people leave, die, or reject us; distressing experiences happen and leave us with pain, sadness, fear, or anger; etc. All of these represent problems to which our minds must adapt in order to function effectively in the world. Personality is the collective term for those adaptations.
@@healnpd Thank you kindly.
Can you do vids on bpd too
So if one can rationally and articulately explain their experiences that appear to be psychotic and nature but simultaneously hold healthy organization what can account for this?
I do tend to have some of these, mostly in response to fear and stressors that i have from early childhood. I can defintely see a realistic perception later as i am detached from the situation, but, unfortunately, when put under duress, due probably to early trauma, my perception of reality is somewhat distorted. Can you please refer me a resource, or plan, course to read up on and understand how to develop better ego functions?
i am co parenting for 13 years and counting and have noticed that the calender plays a big part in the severity of the npd november birthday triggers the anger and cruelty and it lasts through the holidays until new years day then its back to normal well not normal just tolerable whats the link?
Ok, I’d really like to meet a healed or even slightly changed malignant covert narcissist. Hope is not what you need if you are experience abuse by one of these. Why is it these archetypes are so predictable in their patterns of behavior and abuse? When people say “run”, ‘no contact” and “radical acceptance” how could they possible know that YOUR narc isn’t one who would possibly get better? Well they’ve all grown maladaptively like a huge tu,or growth where someone used to have a foot would be predictive of certain things, for starters they won’t be winning an Olympic medal in the relay….but also you’ll notice a limp, observe further and you’ll notice they only own a left of every shoe and on the malformed one is just a sock. You’ll notice maybe that people stare at the foot frequently and it can have a tendency to make this individual angry or sad or reactionary or aloof or antisocial altogether and depressed. Things that can be reasonably expected, anticipated, etc. it’s not rocket science. Well, neither is narcissism really although it seems like it at first but all the shit that they do the Abuse they get off on it. They don’t want to change. they won’t change if you’re sitting here watching this thinking that, you’re smarter or that you found the secret and sad to say you’re gonna get hurt very badly… Please please consider multiple sources in any research that you do don’t buy blindly into somebody’s snake oil even if it sounds like it will cure your cold and make you irresistible to the opposite sex. It won’t, we all get colds….deal with it and move on. If you’re sitting here and you’re wanting to make a change in your own life because you’re a narcissist… You aren’t a narcissist guaranteed. Anyone of you show me your NPD diagnosis along and then tell me you aren’t here simply to placate your still-trauma-bonded and woefully hopeful empathetic partner who expects you to change or they’ll leave. Tell me you’re here proactively so that you don’t abuse people again in the future it ain’t gonna happen… Run.
Who do you recommend on youtube for Cluster C personality disorder information?
Hello, I am a compassionate partner to a person with npd...Do you have any videos about how to get a person with this disorder to seek, or want help?
If anyone wants some music, listen to Reflections. I swear this music has most of the lyrics, and THE SOUND of it is so dissconant and abrasive, it's the only way to translate those dreadful feelings out if the mind.
I’m not selling books or counting likes But I will steer people as best I can away from being hurt and the ways I know they can and will be hurt. They choose to be with or not leave someone diagnosed with or even undiagnosed with one of these disorders. And if you’re truly a narcissist, and you don’t abuse, the shit out of people or congratulations… Not all of them do. But then that’s not what we’re interested in healing. Is it the people that are abused? Who do you think is counting likes the people who have been abused and have been self isolating and hardly have any friends or family left or the ones who need constant adoration supply and attention even if it means outing themselves as a narcissist in a public form, just to act benevolent and paint themselves, the victim of a societal smear campaign. I don’t buy it a second and neither should anyone will smash skin in the game when it comes to being with one of these people. And again, if that’s not you or anyone else who’s sitting around here with some mild form of NPD then are you here because no one needs you to heal or change if you’re not abusing people if you wanna make changes in your life, it’s fantastic, but don’t do it in a form where there are people who are run real risks of being fucked up hard
When you're accused of being a psychotic, delusional conspiracy theorist. After years of no one believing you, it all gets proven true. Ain't that a kick in the butt?
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I WANT NMORE MORE MORE MORE VIDSSSSS
yeah, but it depends where those perceptions are coming from.
If you had a traumatic experience, no surprise you'd become paranoid.
It doesn’t really matter why a person is distorting reality. If reality distortion is occurring, then it is by definition psychotic.
8:22 I wonder what led to "Psychotic" being used for both left and right there.
@youtubeuniversity3638 - The term psychotic simply means loss of contact with reality. Psychotic disorders are formalized syndromes that include some psychotic component, whereas "psychotic organization" is a personality configuration in which the individual tends to distort reality in response to emotional distress or perceived threat. Numerous discrete mental disorders could be layered on top of the underlying psychotic organization, which might give them a psychotic flavor or quality.
@@healnpd Noted, thank you.