Audi RS4 Quattro VS Tesla Model 3 Performance AWD - What's BEST on snow? ❄️
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2023
- The Audi RS4 Quattro is one of the ultimate cars in snow, but can the best of the EV world, the Tesla Model 3 Performance shake up the order?
In theory, the electric vehicle should have the advantage as the electric motors of the tesla can react much faster than the mechanical AWD system of the Audi, but the RS4 has been developed in the worlds most extreme situations, the snow rallying of World Rally Championship.
The acceleration will be testing on snow and ice to see which is faster in a drag race, and hill climb and snow handling / lap times will also be tested to see which is best overall!
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BMW X-Drive vs Audi Quattro • Audi Quattro VS BMW XD...
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Just to clarify, for "systems off" in the Tesla it was set to track mode with stability assist set to -10 (lowest setting) and regen set to 25%. For traction the FR balance was 50/50 and for handling I found 65/35 the fastest.
Disclaimer, this was shot nearly 2 years ago so and it was a rental vehicle so no idea how up to date the software was. There might have been a software update since then, but I found the same at the start of this year.
Well that makes the 'first gen vehicle' comment a little more appropriate, but even then it was like 3rd or 4th gen, if you can even measure teslas like that.
2 years ago?!?! Why wait so long?
Shouldn't you have selected "Slip mode" for the snow driving in the Tesla? As this shuts down the TC completely? At least it does on the RWD and Long Range models
Now this isn't very scientific, but for what it's worth - when I got my M3 3 years ago it felt more like a rear wheel driven car, over-steering and fun. Now it feels more like a front wheel drive care sliding over the front wheels when turning on snow. I can however also relate to the inconsistency you mention. Just when I think this is how it behaves, it changes and is fun for a sec. I wish I had more control and could pick the software version in the car, so it matches my prefs.
I didn't extensively test slip mode as we only had a day to test and film however track mode does allow slip and it overrides slip mode. The internet implies that slip mode allows some slip (not total freedom) and disables at a certain speed. I'm sure there's been plenty of updates since filming this.
2 years - we do winter testing in Jan - March and I didn't have time to finish the edit for last winter, so I saved it for this winter.
I think there is a good reason why EV cars doesn’t allow to fully turn off TC even in their performance versions, because EV has so much instant power/torq you have to be super precise with acceleration pedal and also it’s very hard to control wheelspin and powerslides without gearbox.
Yes, you'll never be able to fully turn off TC because, as you say, torque. People would be in ditches/trees/bus stops and even those with some self control, imagination and skill would be moaning tyres only last one day.
@@thebrowns5337 It's not really torque but weight in my opinion. Torque is torque, whether it comes from an ICE or an electric motor doesn't matter. And in theory, the "throttle" in an EV should actually be much more controllable, because it's immediate. I drive a RWD combustion engine car with 700 Nm atm and it will happily go sideways at 1/3 of the throttle already, but it's super easy to control. Difference is, the car weighs 500-700kg less than any EV.
Yeah, and? Don't want their overbearing nanny control freakiness. Give us full slider control of systems on/off from 100% to 0%, and then I might consider buying one.
Until then, combustion still rules the roads if you want to drive hard and fast around corners.
RS4 is pretty much my dream car, what a beast, and it fits all your stuff, people, and surfboards. Sick as.
@@patrickf2386yep. I compare this with a corvette wich I drove. On wet roads without any tc it spun the wheels on low revs instantly. Not much difference to an EV. I don't want to compare wich cars are faster than a corvette an cheaper to set it clear 😅
It's not just the immediate torque. It's also that the front and rear motors are physically uncoupled. Without the software to control, the front-rear bias is whatever the motors intrinsically have, and there is no centre differential to control wheelspin at one end. The two ends of the car are essentially independent.
The RS4 sounds lovely
It's just fake engine noise from speakers
@@Olppaexcept it isn't 😂
I love my 2018 RS4. Same basic car minus the facelift. I turned my soundaktor off and can confirm, it’s the car sounding like this, not speakers.
@@THjorth the RS4 definitely has fake noise coming from the speakers.
The fake noise sounds stupid
Super interesting comparison for us tire and drivetrain obsessed people👍 love the focus on keeping it unbiased and using the same tires😁
The tesla being heavier will chew up tyres more quickly... (costing more) proven.
The tesla will chew up brake pads quicker and create more poisonous polluting particle dust.. (costing more) proven.
Therefore - buy the Tesla!!!
Definitely not unbiased… and I understand his preference for the RS4 … that sound is awesome
Love these reviews. So much info to process and not dumbed down in its description of feel and technique.
Great test. Great place to do it too - that slope could be really illustrative in comparing different tyres (makes, winter vs 4S/AS) and drive systems (2/4) .
Dream test conditions💪💪💪
Driving on a track like that is a game and life changing experience as even on very moderate speeds gives you loads of adrenaline and ideas about how the car would behave on some extremely high speeds which will not be safe on the regular track and particularly not on the regular road. Perfect execution and great filming💯💥🔥
Great video as always and thank you for making this content (tyre reviews/comparisons), these videos helped me decide on tyres and have confidence I'm driving my family on safest tyres possible. (but when alone also knowing that when I push the car out of grip it's because of me, not the tyres. :)
But something completely off topic, looking at this thumbnail is the first time it struck me how big the model 3 actually is. It looks so small on its own but it's the same size as an A4, never noticed that.
Love my audi s3 and my model 3 both in the snow.
What i learned is that the tesla just goes no matter how steep the hill is with snow. It just keeps pushing.
What i love about the audi is as you said the predictability of how the car does arround corners.
From a safety standpoint tesla wins it hands down
From a funfactor i give it to the audi 😉
That summs up my experience as a swiss who regularly drive in the mountains
Genau 👍
Does the performance of the T3 drain as the charge drains ?
@@pure_awarenessunfortunately yes, not lineary (difference between 100% and 70% is very hard to tell, but diff between 60% and 30% is big)
@@namp007 ok thanks.
Loved seeing snow traction on vs sport vs off! It gives us mortals an idea of how it might work for us. Keep it up with winter tire content, would love to see impact of tire width and more EV content, notably the BMWs. My BMW i3s has 155 19" tire/wheel set for winter and 195 20" summer set. Being RWD, my rear tires get chewed up SO FAST, by far the most expensive part of driving my car is tires every couple of years!
Buy a proper BMW.
No questions, just pure fun watching this. Amazing! Keep up the good work.
Amazing video, I don't think I have ever seen you with a bigger smile while doing a test, ever :D. I am happy you enjoyed the Torsen in snow!
Incredible video mate, Lou and I loved it ♥
Another brilliant video! Thank you!
Awesome video 👍 Would also be interesting to see some EV RWD testing in same conditions.
Woohoo!! What a great, fun video! Well done.
I'm very pleased that you are rolling on the P Zero Winters. There's almost no information or reviews out there on this tire. I almost throw them on my Audi this year, but I'm still waiting to see either more reviews or more tests from those using them daily.
Awesome video!!!Congrats!!!
nice comparison, appreciate giving both same tires!
after all, how would you compare this torsen based Quattro with Quattro ultra? where it differentiates?
I own an S5 and the car is absolutely amazing in the snow with Blizzaks. Without a doubt, the best, most confident feel of any car I’ve ever driven with snow tires. What surprises me is how good it is in the snow even with the summer tires.
Great video, many thanks
Superb video! I have an A5 45tfsi Quattro fitted with 19” Continental DWS06 Plus but was wondering if I should buy a dedicated winter tire. Can you do a comparison of P Zero Winter vs P Zero All weather/season or DWS06 Plus?
Those fenders on the Audi bring back memories of the Quattro rally car, looks so cool!
Finally......a test that eliminates the tire variable!
Do more comparisons like this please! ❤
Loved this! Looked so much fun.Two great cars, even if the Tesla is a bit sterile (altough most drivers need the car to look after them on snow/ice more than they care to admit).
Great test!
Very nice review, keep going (drifting).
I’ve been driving a B9.5 RS4 on winter tyres for a couple of weeks and am genuinely surprised by how modern winter tyres can handle the car’s 600Nm torque on cold but not yet icy tarmac (Pilot Alpin 4 275/30R20). I can send the car flat out from cruising around 50-60mph without making the tyres squeal. If they didn’t make whining noise at low speed passengers won’t know it’s on winter tyres. Amazing.
It’s great to know they’re going to perform this good on the snow too.
A bit unexpected video, but it's great, thank You.
Great Test 👍
So is this tire actually good for real world alps driving where most of the time it's just wet? I have Continentals on and i'm not really happy, also i did torn off some pieces of thread doing accelerations
As a RS6 owner entering winter, this made me so happy 😇
quattro is just built different. I've seen a 3.0 diesel quattro pulling a bus out of snow few years ago
@@CONNNEprobably the bus didn't need much to get pulled out, quattro is not magic, many modern drivetrains can spin all four wheels at once especially on snow, so it's down to the tyres and amount of traction they have. Quattro won't magically increase grip of the tyres that are on the car. Main torsen quattro advantages compared to clutch based AWD systems are robustness and predictability on moderate/low grip surfaces.
People forget it's all down to tyres. The best system in the world is still running on four small patches of plastic (tyres are not really rubber these days) on a very slippy surface.
The worst thing is some drivers think their 4x4/all wheel drive/quattro etc makes their car better all round on snow and ice - in terms of braking it makes no difference. So they barrel towards a corner or back of a queue and end up in trouble.
@@thebrowns5337Exactly. I live in the second snowiest city in Canada (Saguenay) and most cars I see in ditches in winter are AWD SUVs. That's because AWD might help the car to accelerate faster on snow, but it doesn't help to steer nor to brake. The higher speed those people are going increases their risks of crashing
@@arekb5951watch some videos.. and learn more about quattro
Super fun to watch comparison. Hats off to Tesla for a far they have come, but nice to see Ingolstadt still be the champ at its own game.
Because weight...
Yeah, they kinda made it still win 😅
tesla hasnt come really far lol!!!! traction control systems have existed for decades and had been dveloped by mercedes and BOSCH, i think some audi have a locking diff on their awd system
@@carholic-sz3qvshut up kid 🤡
@furieux6742 I live In Canada and when there are ice and snow outside we put some bricks in our cars for better traction
More weight is better
There is not a lot of 4K footage on TH-cam... Top drawer video!
Pleas do dedicated EV summer tires test on Model 3 LR, curious about Michelin E-Primacy vs Hankook E-On EVO 18” stock wheels performance.
Loved it !
I'm from Florida, never seen snow, and found this to be really interesting. Something that will also be interesting is based on the new Cybertruck, and according to the Hagerty video on it, that it's now all steer-by-wire. That will certainly come to the other models soon, and it means they'll be able to really dial in steering however you want it, beyond just making it heavier. Just think in a few years that you'll be able to buy performance tires, then download profiles for those tires based on the conditions, and how you want to drive. That could be amazing, and here much sooner than you might think.
truck is pure useless rubbish, it would perform much worse than 3
@@chiboreachehow would you know ? Are you working at Tesla ?
@@Gilbertus64 i'm just not mirricas🤷♂ i have brain in my head, instead of wind of the freedom🦅
Murican freedom saved your a.. in ww2, and today Russians eat dirt in Ukraine using (mostly)US ammunition because EU is the " virgin girl" who wants to get married to a rapist from Russia and live a easy life using Russian oil and gas.
That’s actually a really smart comment. The idea of downloading a specific steering profile based on current tires and road surface sounds insane but it’s probably just a couple of years away.
Would you be so kind to make a video about tyres for hybrid cars? Summer tyres, winter tyres and my favourite All-season tyres. Many thanks.
Wow this guy can drive!! Im impressed!
GoodMorning & GoodEvening can you please do that same test With R5 Nokian please just to get a full understanding and Quality test if those tires please
The fact that you even compare these two vehicles is a HUGE win for Tesla
A good way of looking at it
One question, do you use trackmode on the Tesla
I like the world where 220kg is "a few kilos"
I noticed that too. When he said a few kilos I specifically looked at the weights and was like….wait…😉
When stuck with your car in dirt or snow, intelligent controlled torque is way more important than the skills showed in these snow drag races. And no other car maker has better torque control than Tesla. See it here: th-cam.com/video/1n_iyYqm2rQ/w-d-xo.html
reallly interesting test
Hi...interesting comparison. Can you do a similar comparison with an in-wheel drive? like a BMW with elapse motors or probably the new NEVS [Emily] (ex Saab factory in Trollhättan) with the Protean engines. the must be fantastic in winter conditions.
I would love to see a extreme winter tire review specifically Michelin Xice vs Bridgestone blizzak dmv-2 on ice and snow
The more I watch good drivers like yourself, the more i realize how much I suck at driving😂Good video though
What tires did you guys run again?
For best all wheel drive u need to test 2018+ subaru wrx sti with DCCD control, u can adjust what u need to be quick :) with active vectoring , helical-type limited-slip front differential and
TORSEN limited-slip rear differential...it's proper snow machine... can u test also the same tyre in different rim sizes with one car, because test show some wierd differences .
I really want to see a real Quattro Audi from the 90's or 80's to see the difference .
There were a few systems in 80s. In 90s to.
No you dont... because torsen was 1WD drive and you will never guess which one.
What are the rims on the Audi please?
Looks really good.
To Audi: Give this man only Torsen models so that he can use them more often in his videos.
Yes, he should never use haldex to represent Quattro. If using haldex just use a VW so as not to muddy the waters.
Hello, Why You don't do P0 WINTER test for tyre? You always missed them.
It was some time ago so unsure if it was an option but the tesla does have "slip-start" option (not in track mode) which could have made difference also
As a 60 + person who grew up drifting everywhere, I approve this video!
Did you test with slip mode? I think that is made for slippery weather.
Can you please share tyres size + specifications for Tesla
Great driving skill my friend
Great video, i personally wouldn't want a electric car for winter driving just based on the battery performance/reliability in freezing temperatures.. That being said this same test between the Tesla Model 3P Vs Audi E-Tron GT would be a great idea for video..
This is funny Jon reminds me of the m3 vs the mr2 !
great review as usual! 👍👍 Just wanted to add that quattro ultra (first appeared with a4 b9 allroad 2.0 ) isnt the same thing as haldex (uses hydraulic clutch at the rear wheels). All audis (a3,a1,q2,q3.) that has latitudinally mounted engine uses haldex and all models of vw that has 4motion. haldex more of an FWD usually engages when there is a slip detected.
Ultra is more engaged systems and depending on which drive mode you are in... i.e in practice it will disengage rear diff with "ultra clutch" (sets of wet clutch plates, at the back of transmision) on straight highway speeds with normal conditions, when there's no need to drive whole driveline and sets of gears like torsen quattro to reduce friction and losses - ergo more fuel consumption. Todays quattros are more of an emblem thing as you know. there is bunch of videos and study explanation on yt
btw your tests are mandatory in my opinion! 💪
Minor correction - neither the current RS3 or Golf Type R use a Haldex system. Audi currently have 4 different quattro systems in use for their ICE vehicles, so not sure what you meant by the emblem thing. Not a great surprise that Jonathan likes the rear biased self-locking centre diff version, it suits his driving style 😂
Small correction, The quattro in the B9 was quattro with ultra technology and not quattro ultra. They are different systems.
Yes the latest RS3 uses RS torque splitter, when you look at SSP it looks like there is two of "ultra clutch"/awd clutch on each drive shaft in the rear :D but i didnt mention RS models ;)
Didnt mean in negative context, but more in the way that nowadays there is a couple of quattro versions (better or slightly less better variants) with pros and cons in setup with same emblem that real audi connoisseur will recognize :D
PS didn't dive to deep into RS3 tqsp quattro, but seems like way to go 😬 @@glisse499
btw what do you mean with "they are different system"? there is no two versions of "ultra"
it is quattro with ultra technology like you said or commomly used way of saying the same thing "quattro ultra" ;)@@ego4551
@@karlo8570The difference between quattro ultra and haldex is only the driveshaft disconnection. Torque transfer is basically the same, actually haldex is even more active as it's never entirely open.
Any thoughts on how this comparison might have gone if you did the same tests with the Nokian Hakka R5? Would that make it a little closer to dry asphalt, so advantage to the Tesla? Or would it just enhance the Audi's ability to take advantage of wheel slip?
Majority of the time, in real life situations, Audi will gets smashed by the M3P. Especially with winter tires and having fraction control on. It probably costs half the price or even less in Finland too due to stupid car tax, yes?
Absolutely fantastic video. I love to see a similar test with similar weight and tires 4WD (in 4H or center diff lock) vs AWD. Love to see someone else test what O'Neil Rally School tested sometime back. Can 4WD still keep up with newer AWD on winter braking, may be prooving O'Neil Rally School wrong. I quote O'Neil Rally School "When you're in 4WD, the front and rear axles are mechanically linked by the driveshafts and transfer case. The front and rear will turn at the same speed, regardless of whether you're on the gas, coasting, or on the brakes. Your brakes send 70% pressure to the front and 30% to the rear, but in 4WD the front and rear axles are connected so you end up with 50-50 brakes front and rear. This is much better on snow and ice."
What cars could I use. RW4 / M3 X-Drive for sure, but what's similar with a proper AWD system
@@tyrereviews I think something like Ford Bronco v6 part time 4WD vs Mazda CX9 inline 6 AWD would be a close match, both weighing around 4500lbs. Both rear wheel biased, Mazda send power to front and Bronco in 4H will have 50:50 split. Maybe can use 265/60R18 vs 265/70R17 tires on CX9 and Bronco Or Toyota Highlander Limited AWD vs 4Runner Limited 4WD. Both around 4500lbs and both can have 245/55R19 vs 245/60R20 tires. But Highlander is frond wheel biased vs 4Runner Limited is rear wheel biased, but when center diff locked it is 50:50 like a part time 4wd in 4H. Just some suggestions as a viewer, not an expert like you sir.
Full size landrovers/Rangerover/Defended/Discovery are AWD and also can be locked 4WD and also can have mechanical locking rear dif.
@@TC-V8 they are not AWD right? Fulltime 4WD with a mechanical center diff, always connected vs electromagnetic clutch or viscous coupling AWD vehicles have.
@@LionRunner thanks! I'll look into them further:)
I’m just curious to know can you do an Audi vs Subaru similar powered and type of car lol. I really wanna know
Hakkapelitta R3 vs R5?
And Hakkapelitta 9 vs 10?
What you you think about those and why?
I have the MYP the traction control is much better than my previous Macan GTS but you can really feel the rear weight bias in icy conditions very scary!
Kudos for using the same tyres on the cars. It is alarming for how many testers that does not understand the importance of this.
It would be really interesting to see the comparison between an older Torsen Audi and a newer Haldex Audi.
My gut feeling is the full time Torsen will perform better than the "lock the clutch up when it slips" Haldex but I've been wrong before!
Isn’t heldex only on the small Audis with the transversely mounted engine (like a3 or q3)?
There are at least "Ultra Quattro" A4s that have Haldex 4WD system. But I think they are only the 4cyl models, not RS with 6cyl.
@@rkan2Quattro ultra is not haldex. Both are using clutch packs to power rear wheels but they are different systems.
@@waltheflSmall models and 2nd gen of R8.
Quattro power 💪
What tyres have been used
Curious if an Audi sedan (saloon) would widen the gap in lap times vs. the estate? Genius pairing of vehicles for this test.
Id take the awesome RS4 engine sound roar over the whisper quiet electric Tesla engine any day of the week.
The fake roar you hear on the inside sounds stupid
Does anyone know the name of the wheels on the Tesla Model 3?
I was visiting Iceland last year and i hired a cheap Suzuki 4x4 which came with studded tyres. Got to see some pretty hairy roads; dual carrageways with sheet ice where I was terrified of doing over 50mph on.
Seemed like ever other car that would overtake me at speed was a Tesla 3. they looked phenomenally safe on the road
I live in Switzerland and that's exactly why I drive an RS4. My choice at the time was the B8 model with V8 4.2 L high revs 8500 rpm.
Why haven't you done a simple brake perfomance test?
shifting that audi like an old skool honda civic 👌🏻👍🏻🔥👂🏻hell yeah john benson
I was just wondering the difference in snow, although my next car is a RS5/RS6/RS7 no doubt. Really want the 2.9T e-hybrid in next generation Audi avant lineup but nothing is guaranteed so might get a Panamera. Size wise, that’s probably more comparable to a RS4 avant than a RS6, yeah?
thank you for conducting such a test, I made sure of my own choice, it's nice 🤝🇺🇦💪
I literally just fitted the p zero winter tires on my 2013 rs5 last week and was upset because I couldn’t find any videos on them. They’re my first winter tires ever
Even with a lot of modern IC cars, the electronic nanny systems really kill any kind of fun in the snow. I guess they help people who are just trying to get where the are going, but they make aggressive driving frustratingly unpredictable.
Which is why I'm thankful you can still turn them off in the RS4 instead of pulling an abs fuse
99% of people will drive in these conditions with all systems on, Tesla wins in that situation.
Which is why even a regular BMW 3-series is fun on snow, because even in the G20 you can turn DSC off and it is fun.
@@iain8837 but those 99% of people will just get a regular A4 Avant or LR Tesla, not a performance version
@@harryspeakup8452 In real life we don't have a prepped road or fluffy snow banks, we have curbs and traffic
Good stuff, should have had Tesla in track mode for system off drag that way you can turn all TC systems off as they are always in
I've found track mode settings are best at 30/70, but that may only be any good on a tarmac track.
what track is playing 1:40?
If you thought the RS4 AWD system is impressive, you should try and see what an Audi E-TRON can do! It would be fun to pit it against the Tesla........."apples to apples" Jon.
It would be interesting to have a snow driving comparison between the Tesla, and the Taycan.
Is the price comparable tho?
I installed a APR throttle controller. It is the best thing for traction management. In low grip surfaces. You need slower rate increase speed. Not a sudden increase in torque that breaks traction. Throttle controller can slowly smoothly apply small increase throttle. (Adjustable) That does not break the traction. I set acceleration slope 50% for rain and 30% for snow. And can essentially apply perceived full throttle and let the controller slowly ramp up speed
whos APR? they make aftermarket tesla components?
Was the Tesla tried with snow slip-star mode on?
Beatiful Audi!
How many weeks did this take? Charging tesla for example!!!
Pirelli Sottozero Center near Älvsbyn?
What tyres?
If gasoline money isn't issue, i still prefer combustion engine even if slower, but totaly different feeling, specially rs cars
I would really love to see comparison between european winter tires vs nordic winter tires.
I would like this test done with Nordic winter tyres. As a Swede, it looked like the tyres are quite bad for snow/ice compared to what we use up here.
lol
Next test, try the off-road function can be activated with simple S3XY buttons (it can be always activated in MY lr e MYP, without toolkit).
More of a tyre-test this or was it the same?