Do You Really Need AWD? Settling The Winter Tire Debate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2023
- Do you really need winter tires, and do you really need AWD?
Thank you to Hankook for sponsoring this video! www.hankooktire.com/us/en/tir...
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Snow covered roads tend to create a debate surrounding snow tires and all-wheel drive - is it all really necessary? In this video we’ll compare summer, all-season, and winter tires performance in the snow, and also discuss the purpose and merits of all-wheel drive. All-wheel drive combined with winter tires can provide confident driving in harsh winter conditions. But what about electric cars? Winter tires pose a unique challenge to electric cars, as they are generally louder, which is more noticeable in EVs. Winter tires also tend to have higher rolling resistance, which reduces your range in an EV. Finally, winter tires use softer compounds, meaning more wear when used by a heavy EV. To maximize winter performance, compromise is inevitable, but Hankook seeks to combat these challenges with their latest tire offering, the iON i*cept winter tire, designed specifically for EVs. Watch to learn all about it!
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**Important Note!** At 1:37 the equation should read: change in velocity squared (ΔV^2). The calculations use the correct equation, so the numbers presented are still valid, I simply mistyped the equation - apologies!
Did you know you were implementing an evolutionary theory strategy when you said, ‘I just need to be better than the average around me’?
I’m REALLY curious about how you measured tire noise yourself, on your vehicles as mentioned at 12:24.
What are the chances that you just measured ALL noise of the two tire scenarios?
I would also have liked to see how all-season tires with m+s markings perform, m+s marking makes them legal winter tires in some countries that require winter tires. All-season can be many things these days🤓
@@matthewmosher7676 +1.. Say what? .. I'll noodle this "evolutionary theory strategy" some..
Cheers, Vail, Colorado.. Where Winter M/S tires are the name of the game..
Terrible video because of your assumption that winter tires are needed for snow. You need winter tires for cold temperatures NOT JUST for snow!
In Finland the winter tire debate is bit different. Everyone uses winter tires and it has been mandatory by law. But the debate is whether to use studded or studdles tires. Studded tires are better on icy roads whereas studdles are more silent and don't damage roads as much. It can cause really heated debates sometimes.
same in sweden
Same in Estonia
Seems like studless tires have really come a long way - I haven't ever felt the need for studded tires in my many years of snow driving. That said, I did do some driving on a frozen lake, and when you're on a sheet of ice, having studs does make a huge difference!
And Norway ;)
I think most here "agree" that studded is better, but mostly not needed. Especially in the city.
Yeah I can see that being a debate. Even in the US there are places which restrict the use of studded tires to certain areas and/or certain times of year. I tried studded tires on my prior 2wd Tacoma and they were magical. I got through places that many AWD or 4wd SUVs could not get to (though likely they were just on US all seasons or all terrains but still).
That being said I will not use them again as I simply do not like the idea of tearing up the roads when driving over clear patches and such.
I'm from Michigan and live in Denver now. Didn't get winter tires until two years ago on a Sonata. Went from terrified to drive when it heavily snows to wanting to drive. The difference is insane.
Did you drive on all seasons up until that point?
@@Pilifo006 Yeah good all seasons. They're nowhere near as good as an all winter tire.
Same. I figured it out a few years ago. When it snows I just laugh with winter tires and my Sonata.
If you can’t store Winter tires, is it still worth it over the all-season? I also drive a Sonata but moved from Cincinnati to SLC.
@@savancleveland7756 If you can't store the tires on your own, you can pay tire shops to store them for you. I'd say driving winter tires is a much better option in snowy regions than all seasons.
I think a variable missing here is the cornering stability between all these tires in snow. I see a lot of people lose traction cornering in winter conditions. It would be interesting to see the lateral G's and maybe a slalom test with all tires/drivetrain types in snow conditions.
Furthermore, having all tires pulling where the car is pointing can help when sliding. You can go around a turn faster with AWD, other variables the same, with adequate input of throttle.
@@s3cksyif you're a pro driver who can drift on a road with guaranteed one way traffic. The problem is if you need to break your out. A 2wd Vs awd normal driving style has equal grip, and awd gives a false sense of grip because of the better climb and acceleration benefits so you see more awd vehicles in the ditch on crazy snow days. The video should have mentioned this in my opinion, other than that it was good. I'm Norwegian so I'm used to proper vinter conditions ☺️
Coefficient of friction between the tire and the road doesn't change, except when spinning or sliding the tire.
@@sceptic-noob Not just drifting: Think of emergency situations. For regular drivers, sure, they're going to understeer into the ditch holding the brakes regardless. But for more practiced drivers, they can save the slide with the extra pull
@@s3cksyit just adds risk for failure and higher risk for other people on the road, sorry I don't agree, to make a sliding turn work with awd you need to drive on power, that means you increase speed. Seen to many "world champs" driving on snow to agree to this one.
I want to see a test of the "best"/most expensive all season tire vs the "worst"/cheapest snow tire put head to head.
Also All-weather vs All-season.
I want to see a test of the world's best rally car and rally driver running summer road tires vs an average guy in a family AWD SUV running the best snow and ice tires that are still publicly available. And I want to see them do a lap on a ice/snow track. From a standing start, to a braked and stopped finish at the line. That would be a race to prove a point forsure. I bet the SUV would crush the rally car.
Go check out the channel tyre reviews
There are plenty of those tests by car mags and some independent testers. There are companies that are concentrated only tyre testing and they work both for tyre manufacturers and on occasion for mags. Some of these pros also do nowadays vlogging- One excellent source is “Tyre reviews” by Jonathan Benson. He has a very professional approach to evaluation.
Having worked in the tyre evaluation world I found this presentation - good, but maybe slightly pro manufacturer over looking some aspects. Like the facts that rolling resistance and grip are usually contradictory just like comfort and handling tends to be. Tyres are always a compromise between several aspects: grip, grip variation, NVH, handling, rolling resistance, longevity, price, manufacturing costs and logistics, sustainability etc.
Many summer performance tires have a minimum temperature recommendation that should not be ignored. Our body shop did repairs on a 370Z that had failed to negotiate a turn and wiped the side out on the guard rail. Driver swore he'd taken that curve hundreds of times at even higher speeds successfully so this crash really caught him off guard. I asked how cold it was that day...and he thought a minute then said 'It was pretty cold now that you mention it'. Went to look at the tires and they had a warning to not drive on them below 40F as they could be dangerous. Just something to think about if you're planning on getting UHP summer tires.
Is that something that's written directly on the tire sidewall?
I had neglected to swap out my summer tires for winters until it was almost too late. My car was parked in the street, and it was just beginning to snow. I had to go around the block to get it into my condo's garage (where I had my winter wheels and floor jack). That was the sketchiest 15mph drive I've ever had to do.
noticed this on my miata. In the summer heat it felt like i had alien levels of grip. As soon as the temp dropped to around 32 degrees i could slide the car around without the tires even squealing.
Winter tires should be law, not optional.
can attest to this with my Dunlop Direzza's on a Mustang. maybe just the Mustang's fault lmao
For the one year I daily drove my mustang, it was amusing passing by stuck SUVs with my snow tires. However, stopping while trying to go up a snowy hill was definitely a bit of an Achilles heel.
Ha - yes, if you already have momentum it's usually not to bad, but once you stop, hard to keep going uphill!
@@EngineeringExplained oooooooh yes! I learned that the hard way way back in my early 20s. I could not leave this one subdivision one night, all due to the entrance being at the top of a hill and the subdivision itself being at the top of another hill, with a valley between the two. I think I made a dozen attempts to go down one hill and try to reach the top to no avail. When I reached the point where I couldn't go any higher, my car would then slowly spin laterally down the hill until I reached the bottom. It was funny until one time I hit the curb hard then decided I wasn't ever going to get out so I went back to my friend's place and stayed the night.
Got stuck behind a truck that got stuck on a big hill by my house with my snow tires. I backed her up down the hill got a running start and blew by the sucker stuck on the hill.
And that has more to do with your weight on the driven wheels. A classic VW Bug, Fiat 500, MR2 or FWD car will have more traction on the driven wheels. Trunk mounted battery and/or a little ballast may have helped that.
@@EngineeringExplained That is my experience when I used to have my FWD vs my current AWD car. My current car with winter tires on made up the same snowy hill that my FWD car can't with snow tires.
Now is definitely NOT the time to be buying a car. Average car cost $47K?! That's insane!
Check your ego at the door - you need a vehicle to get back and forth to work, not to impress anyone. An auto finance rate of 7%+ is an insult to anyone with excellent credit. No thanks. Those new cars can sit on the lot and rot away for all I care.
I'm with you. I don't care how much it costs to keep my current cars running.
I'll drop new engines and trans if necessary I refuse to buy a new car.
Yeah, Im glad I keep seeing this message because I want a new car, but man these prices are crazy
Please who is the consultant that assist you with your investment and if you don't mind, how do I get in touch with this person
Found his website easily. It was like the first thing that came up when I searched his name. I'll surely touch basis with him to see what the best step is for me to take right now. THANK YOU!!!
Auto rate of 7% should be normal, because if the FED didn't keep rates artificially low.
However, PRICES should insult you, these dealers are screwing their future for a gain in the short term.
Thanks for focusing friction on braking. Too many new drivers here in Alaska say, "I have 4WD or AWD. I don't need snow tires." They're frequently the ones in the ditch on their sides or roofs after the first snowfall.
I agree. Awd has better acceleration - but possibly too much. People have the ability to drive faster than they should and can't negotiate a turn or curve. 4x4 helps you to get out of the ditch - but won't prevent you from going into the ditch
Thanks for including metric measurements! Always appreciated!❤
Just for you!! Haha glad to hear it was appreciated, as all the calculations are unique! (0-100 km/h is ~62 mph so different calcs).
YES! Metric rules 😉
Freedom units are best units!
Metric is for communists boy. Ya hear me, boy? I said, I said communists.
@@EngineeringExplained at least 0-100 km/h makes sense and actually comparable, because 0-60 mph can often mean 6 to 60 or anything else because of one-foot rollout
The biggest thing I tell everyone is that the coefficient of friction between you and the road matters more than anything else.
They don't like to believe me.
SO, I thank Jason for making these videos. Because, even though I'm a MechE myself, the fact that Jason is a successful Engineering TH-camr is all the credibility needed to 'convince' friends, family, acquaintances and coworkers that YES TIRES ARE IMPORTANT. I send these to everybody!!
Thanks for being awesome!
I never ever skimp on tyres.
@@MePeterNicholls maybe you should, there is such a thing as spending 3x as much for a 10% improvement.
Anyone who’s owned/driven one set of cheap tires and one set of expensive tires knows tires (and brakes) are the most important component to driving performance aside from the powertrain.
@@awake780 I recently went from some $99/tire Solarus Starfire chinesium tires to some nice Falken Wildpeaks and I gotta disagree with you. There is zero noticeable difference on dry pavement(actually the old tires might have had slightly more grip) and only a small difference on snow.
@@jaredlancaster4137 your miles may vary…
Jason, recently I listened to a talk that started out: "I won't throw facts at you", I greatly appreciate facts and numbers in lieu of ethical assertions. So, a big THANK YOU.
TYVM. Any "review" based on opinion or, FFS, faith isn't worth donkey doo doo.
Coastal Maine checking in…
Wife’s SUV- AWD with studded snow tires.
My truck - 4wd and 3PMS tires
Tires are the most important factor when it comes to safely driving on winter roads. AWD and 4wd allow the vehicle to take advantage of the additional grip provided by the tires.
Ayuh.
Very good and thoughtful comparison. One point that could have been addressed is that people with AWD or 4WD tend to drive faster with overconfidence until they hit the brakes and end up in the ditch due to inertia. We see it all the time here. Two wheel drive drivers tend to have winter tires and drive according to conditions.
This x 1000.
More importantly everyone in their SUVs thinking their "AWD" system will save them. And the quotes were intentional, they are barely even AWD.
SUV Battle channel has great videos showing the differences between 4WD/AWD systems between brands
I remember noticing that during the northeast "snowpocalypse" in 2013. Before we know how bad it would get I planned to drive to a friend's house to drink and watch Archer and sleep over.
Well I did go but it got really nasty along the way, and lots of cars with AWD were getting stuck.
Me in my FWD with all-seasons and not hubris: 😎
My classmate's father got a Jaguar and told me, that the transmission has a "winter program" so the winter tires are not needed and they are expensive anyway.
I hope the brakes had a "winter program" too. :D
Haha, that "winter program" is just starting in second gear from a stop, to help reduce wheel slip. Basically no different than snow chains, right?!
I've pulled many a person like that guy out of snow banks with my little Subaru equipped with Nokian WR tires, which are stamped with the snowflake but certainly not the most aggressive snow tire out there. Between having the wrong tires and slamming on the brakes in a corner when the tail starts to wag, lots of SUV's wind up in a snow bank on the side of the road in Tahoe.
🤦♂️
@@brentlanyon4654Subarus are amazing in snow.
As someone that has spent decades driving in icy/snowy weather every year I can say two things with absolute certainty. I'll take snow over ice every time and it's more important to be able to turn and stop than to go. Being able to go can take you off a cliff. Being able to turn and stop are what you need to do to prevent it. People told me I was crazy but when I lived in Kansas when it was nasty out I'd back out of my driveway and start playing with the gas first but then the steering and breaks to see how it was. My street was particularly horrible and it gave me a gauge to go off of while having fun sliding around a bit. To be honest it saved my ass more than once.
Dedicated winter tires make a huge difference over all-season tires. Whether you have snow is one thing; cold temperatures are another. Few drivers realize that winter tires are softer and provide good traction in low temps that make all-season and summer tires harder to the point that they lose grip.
I’m in MN and it’s crazy how much better snow tires are in my fwd car than in my old awd suv with all season. I switched over last year and it was really noticeable.
I just wish I could run my studded tires here. They were amazing in that storm in October, that barely effected my travel time
My wifes Hyundai Venue came with 4 seasons, my AWD Jeep had 3 seasons. I was impressed with how much better it drove. Part of it was probably also weight, I think her car weighs about 500lbs less than mine which was a huge issue in snowy turns.
Regardless when I caught a nail in a tire in the spring I sprung on the opportunity to upgrade to 3 peak trail terrains. Not as good as a dedicated winter tire, but I also haven't seen much winter around here these last few years so an "all arounder" is the better choice than trying to predict if I'll actually need snow tires.
All season tires is useless here where we have snow and ice for 4-5 months a year... Only actual winter tires work on snow and ice.
MN here, too. Crazy what a set of decent all-seasons and managing your speed can do for you. AWD/4WD really isn't necessary. Winter tires aren't either.
@@AHungryHunky I also drive a Hyundai Venue. How does it significantly improve the driving dynamics of the Venue with snow tire? How much snow do you get in your area? Have you guys tried/experienced the venue with snow tires in a sleet of ice?
New england driver here, Thank-you for this videos topic and quality so I can share it around.
Having lived in Rockies most of my life and an avid powder skier, more people get them selves in trouble with AWD/4WD and all-seasons than do FWD with winters. Yes the AWD car might have have more traction going up a mountain pass and can get you to the top faster, but all cars have 4 wheel braking so once you're in the downhill and usually completely off throttle(if not engine braking) with cornering and decelerating on switchbacks, drivetrain matters less and the grippier tires reign supreme. Can't tell you how many Subarus, 4 runners, etc I've seen spun out over the years driving by in my maxima with Blizzaks.
p.s. one additional interesting thing is that traditionally 4wd has shorter braking distance in snow than AWD. Sounds impossible, but it makes sense because the low traction scenario means that the front end never gets the load and so the the front tires will lock up before the rears could apply all their usable braking power. With 4wd the rear axel is locked 50/50 (via the transfer case) with the front, effectively mechanically applying the brakes to the rears, whereas with the AWD, the center differential doesn't accomplish. Some newer AWD SUV's have variable condition braking and so you can set the vehicle for snow which allows more braking power to the rear to account for this
This reminds me few tests O'Neil Rally School conducted and claimed I quote O'Neil Rally School "When you're in 4WD, the front and rear axles are mechanically linked by the driveshafts and transfer case. The front and rear will turn at the same speed, regardless of whether you're on the gas, coasting, or on the brakes. Your brakes send 70% pressure to the front and 30% to the rear, but in 4WD the front and rear axles are connected so you end up with 50-50 brakes front and rear. This is much better on snow and ice.". And I seem them on the replies on comment to viewers AWD vehicles can't do this. I think its because AWD vehicles depend on electro magnetic or viscous coupling. Wish Jason can prove this wrong (or not) with a equal weight equal contact patch same tire AWD vs 4WD.
Thank you for this analysis. It never ceases to amaze me about the effort that is taken to make tires better year after year. Twenty years ago I considered tire design a black art. today, the thinking that goes in is truly extraordinary.
Watching F1 has really taught me a lot about how tires work.
I get it... a black art.
Recently had to drive over Red Mountain Pass on 550 near Ouray, CO on full snowpack conditions after Thanksgiving. New set of Blizzak’s kept me alive for another day!
Great video! I especially appreciate the point that having a stopping distance less than other cars around you is important. Living in central Cali and driving up to Tahoe in the winter puts me in the all seasons. It's good to know that if I drive conservatively and keep my distance in an all-season tire I should be able to compensate for the additional two-car length stopping distance advantage a car with snow tires has.
Don't ever drive on snow with summer tires. Just don't.
Bah, I've done it.
tho I did break my sway bar because I couldn't go over the snow without speed. But other than costing my several hundred dollars. It's fine.
@@SlyNine Let's just not care about the tens of thousands that have horrible accidents every year because they're too unintelligent to put on winter tires.
I waited too long to switch to the winters this year and actually drove my summers on snow one day. It was just going home from work which is like a 2-minute drive - this day it was like 5 minutes because this was uncharted territory lol.
I managed to not invoke the stability control at all, just the ABS. A lot.
Overall it wasn't as bad as I thought. Of course would still avoid it if at all possible.
One factor that also makes a huge difference is temperature... Anything below 7 degrees C, the winter tire makes a difference, let alone at -20 degrees C like what we get in Québec...Even on dry pavement, your stopping distances will dramatically increase with a summer tire. BTW we have a mandatory winter tire rule from December to mid-March.
Cheers
Mandatory winter tires? Do all seasons not count? That seems really wasteful. 😂 Oh Canada.
All season tires are no season tires. Quebec's law is based on science and engineering and the poor performance of all seasons in cold temperatures.
Yeah of course winter tires make sense in an area that has a predictable weather pattern. Where I live it can be snowing and icy one day and then 2 days later it is 85 f. It's not possible to be changing your tires every week, thus the only real option is high performance all season tires with AWD.
I have been wondering this too, how temp affects dry stopping performance between winters and all seasons. If you go by the calcs in the video it won't be much. In the snow the difference between winters and all seasons was 29 feet so it will be less than that, probably a lot less given the snow is respoonsible for most of the difference. I've not seen anything that compares stopping distance for a given temp in dry. I also bet that the lower the temp the more of a difference between winters and all seasons but that's just a guess.
There was literally a test on this channel. Summer tires has greater grip even in cold climate on dry pavement due to greater contact area. Also on dry pavement they have ability to get warm and get even more grip.
Thank you. I'd love to see the winter/summer diff where snow isn't involved in the 15 to 40F range. Our area is more concerned with fog icing, mostly on bridges. My FWD car's high performance summer tires had little grip on ice, while X-ice handled icing more like driving on standing water. There was one concern I'm not sure either would handle, recovering control if tires lose traction; that scary "slide to death" when they break loose. On a 45 degree day, lightly wet road, the rear bumper was lightly bumped sideways by a semi truck; felt about as hard as someone bumping it with their hip. The X-ice lost grip and, despite turning into the slide, all 4 wheels lost traction, sending the car into a 360 degree slow speed slide pivoting around on 2.5 traffic lanes. Traction was only returned when it'd passed thru the full turn, back to the direction of travel. The bump was so light that it didn't even mark the dirt on either vehicle's bumper. I'd been traveling at 60 and lost only about 10 MPH in that crazy spin.
As someone that owns multiple vehicles (AWD, 4WD, and 2wd) and run summer tires, all-seasons, and winter tires I can not stress enough to never drive in snow or on ice with summer tires. Tire manufacturers actually recommend not to drive on summer tires once the temp drops to 40 degrees. I once pulled my car that runs only summer tires out of the garage onto the driveway and when pulling back in hit a small patch of ice on just the front passenger tire and I had no control of the car and it almost slid right into the house. Best description I could give is it I was like driving on marbles.
As for winter tires one thing not mentioned in this video is they are much more stable making turns in snow and on ice, something people find out doesn't always work out when they have 4wd/AWD yet are only running all-season tires.
I've once seen when someone surprised by the winter tried to pull away to a roundabout. The wheels were moving. The car was not.
Total agree. I used to have dedicated winter tires since we have a lot of hilly windy roads in my area. And I never had any issues driving through Winter storms. But now it doesn’t snow as much, I switched over to all weather tires. They are nowhere as good as my fwd cars Which struggle up hills. All-wheel-drive cars are fine, but braking and turning are horrendous with all weather tires.
Nothing better than a set of Hakkapeliitta’s!! Watched an FC RX7 on those eat Subarus in the snow with all seasons.
Here in Northern Alaska, we do not mandate winter tire use, other than having your studded tires changed before certain dates to protect the roads. But even at temps as low as -60's °F and heavy snows, not everyone uses a dedicated winter tire. And you can usually see these people on your way to work. They're the ones in the median, with the wheels pointed towards the stars.
As they say, “keep the rubber side down”.
Lived in central NY my whole life, many years ago I had a Regal GS with the optional 20" 5 spoke rims. They came wrapped in Pirelli P-Zero's for summer. Got some all seasons for that winter and literally would get stuck on the smallest inclines. The next winter and $1800 later I wrapped them in 20" Blizzaks and was BEASTING through the snow. Was a FWD car.
This is one of the best tire explanations I’ve ever seen. Thank you!
As frustrating as it is to talk to people who think they "need AWD" or don't need winter tires because they have AWD. In MN, I love the fact that it makes some great RWD cars more affordable because of these people.
Until about 10-12 years ago, almost every law enforcement vehicle, especially state troopers, were RWD with snow tires. They made it around just fine.
Decent tires with a competent driver matters much more than the driven wheels.
I'm more interested in braking distances than 0 to 60s in low grip environments.
Tires, weight, torque splitting differential. The gang vehicles are heavier. I'm not certain they use a true snow tire because they have a hard on for the speed rating. Weight and a torque split will take a RWD anywhere.
Ask those AWD folks if their braking performance is any better compared to others.
Chances are they will understand it when it’s highlighted like this but having AWD can really lull people into a false sense of security.
I think a large part of the reason Law Enforcement used RWD cars was the lack of availability of cheap 'US-made' AWD sedans, it was only the introduction of the Charger and Taurus that allowed it, both on reused European platforms.
Every fresh snowfall, the AWD SUVs and pickups fill the ditches. Overweight vehicles corner badly and stop poorly on snow and ice. Take off traction might be better, but they don't turn or stop.
Winter tires were life changing. I lived north of Chicago near the Wisconsin border.
2009 Hyundai Sonata on Blizzak X3s. Acceleration and braking were transformed. From December to March I could drive my car and if felt (mostly) like a normal dry day as I plodded along through 16 inches of snow and black ice.
I even tried to get stuck in unplowed parking lots a few times. Never got stuck
I moved from texas to mcHenry county earlier this year. The emphasis on winter tires here is insane!
I live in the same area, and remember the first time I put winter tires on my 4wd pickup. It was similar to going from 2wd to 4wd in control and acceleration, I was very impressed! And then combining that winter tire with 4wd after that was crazy! So much control!!
Usually we don't get snow here often enough anymore that I haven't worried about doing that in a long time, and just go with all-season year round. On the bad days, I just drive a bit slower and it all works fine. It also helps that I have so little trust in my fellow driver that I NEVER tailgate people, lol.
Wow sittingvin Alabama amazed anyone would live in that hellscape
@@BPF80MCar-vi1pghow are the bugs where you live? Exactly.
If you're going out on a snowy or icy day in sneakers, don't be surprised if you end up on your butt no matter how carefully you step. Now why take that risk with your $$$$$ vehicle?
I drove a Ford Crown Victoria with a limited slip diff and blizzak tires in Montana winters for years. It did phenomenal.
Jason never getting tired talking about tires 😅
Literally never, I love them haha. Most important part on your car!
Another benefit of winter/snow tires is that in most cases where chain controls exist, as long as you have all wheel drive, you don't need to chain up with winter/snow rated tires. If you live in or around the Sierras, that's not only huge for driving safety, you don't have to get out of your car in bad weather to put chains on your car. Plus in areas where there is snow but no chain controls, you still get the benefits of the added snow traction.
Colorado as well. They have signs every year saying mandatory AWD or snow chains. it makes sense too the mountain roads are no joke when they get snowy
Utah as well. My videos from Park City show my Maverick AWD. Even with last winter's huge snowfall, I never had to put chains on once.
Yea that doesn't work anywhere other than where you 3 above live lmao. Try that anywhere that's below 4000 feet lol. On the east side of the country, traditionally, once the chain mandate goes out, everyone has chains, or you don't go out. And most times it's must have 4wd AND chains at that point.
I lived in Oregon for 15 years (Corvallis & Portland) and Yakima, WA for 5. I saw signs like that all the time driving the Cascade passes on my way up to ski and traveling Snowqualmie Pass in winter.
Tried some R compound tires in the snow once. With about an inch of snow, you get stuck.
When I lived in MA I purchased 2 sets of junkyard rims and installed winter tires on both for my Equinox and the Buick I owned. Equinox is AWD, Buick was FWD/6spd manual with turbo. in 2015 MA had something in the neighborhood of 150" of snow over the course of the winter. The vehicle went through EVERYTHING. The Buick saw a little snow but the times it did it was nice knowing I had the winter tires on there. Well worth the money and peace of mind.
I recently rented a car in Alberta - an AWD Nissan Rogue - that turned out to have Chinese summer tires on it. In a snowstorm, the lack of traction was scary - and to make it worse, the car rocked from side to side as the AWD system hunted back and forth for the wheel with the best traction. I have a similar car, a Nissan Qashqai, which is only FWD, but driving in similar weather a week later but with its name-brand winter tires, the difference was huge.
Wtf, summer tires from a canadian car rental? That sounds like gross negligence to me. Do they want to have customers crash in the snow?
@@Steamrick That's what I thought, but apparently it's pretty common. Even though the car had BC plates, where winter/all-season tires are mandatory. I would have thought that the rental companies would have all-seasons but no. It was Hertz at YYC airport, and the Rogue had Anchee AC828 tires on it.
Had a similar issue in Denver recently. AWD Audi A5 with cheap Chinese mismatched tires. It was horrible in the snow and impossible on ice. The tires were hard as a rock with even reduced grip on dry pavement in the cold.
@@WhalerguyImagine putting chinesium tires in an A5 Quattro…
Honestly, even name brand summer tires would do extremely poorly in winter.
Problem of having better tires than others is that you have better changes to avoid rear end someone, but you will be rear ended for sure.
But hey, here in Baltimore folks drive with slicks all year round, so it won't be my set of all season tires that will made me safer. Not leaving home is.
People always say this and I never understood it; you can control the gap with the car behind you. If they're too close and slam into you, that's on them. But having good grip doesn't mean you'll get rear ended; look behind you and manage the gap while braking (don't just slam them if you don't need to).
@@EngineeringExplained Are you suggesting I shouldn't brake check people to show off my awesome stopping ability? NO DICE!
@@EngineeringExplained When you have stoned drivers using the cellphone, rocking 24" rims on their sedans while doing 80+ on a 55mph zone, I'm certain you will understand why your control alone isn't that helpful. Sure, I have time to look ahead and react, including moving to the shoulder if the person behind me hasn't reacted yet, but refer back the first sentence. Plus, here is not a snowy region, but we have plenty of black ice. I felt safer driving in the Denver winter season than I am here any season.
I think comparing ice performance would have really driven the point home on the importance winter tires. Ice traction is way more important that snow traction for safety purposes.
Agreed. Ice with water on top. Downshifting, even down to 1st, is better than brakes on wet ice.
Not sure winter tires are a whole lot better than all seasons are on ice. Studded tires are.
Exactly! I kept thinking this while watching this video. He just keeps talking about snow. Ice is really the biggest difference between all-season and winter tires. I can still drive along with plenty of traction on the same road to work at 50-60 mph on pure black ice, while doing the same trip on the same vehicle on all-season tires it's super dangerous at any speed higher than 25-30 mph.
Agreed. Ice is also what separates the performance of many winter tires. I’ve personally tried many offerings from Continental, Michelin, Dunlop and Bridgestone over the years. Nothing has come close to the WS series Blizzak from Bridgestone on ice. However, they are very soft and wear very quickly in non-extreme winter conditions.
It doesn't matter on ice. You can't get traction on it unless you have spiked tires
Another thing to note is if you park outside. Living in MN we get a few blizzards per year where snow will drift up around the car overnight. Having AWD I can just power out of my parking spot. My neighbors are using shovels, bags of sand, 3 ppl pushing in order to get their car out of the drift and into the plowed street. Having an AWD car I have never been stuck in my parking spot. Well once but it was up to my doorhandles and no one was going anywhere that day :)
Great video Jason! I show my Ford Maverick AWD on my channel from 7,000+ ft elevation Park City. Last winter was a huge snow year but I never had to put chains on the stock m&s rated Continental tires. It surprised me how easily I was able to climb some of the steep slick roads. But stopping going back down was a concern even though I use low gear for engine braking.
This winter, I added a set of Blizzaks and I can tell they grip a lot better up AND down icy streets. And yes, they are more noisy but I don't mind because the added stopping power is much more important.
I am a rookie at this trying to be different like your content. I subbed and hope to earn your sub and referrals.
Thanks for putting math to the conditions I feel while driving on our snow covered mountain roads in Utah.
There is also a difference between all-season and all-weather. (4th tire option!)
All-weather tires have the Mountain+Snowflake logo, making them technically pass as 'winter'.
However, I'd still argue that truly Winter tires are still better.
Yeah the "all season" tires are designed for California winters.
On snow and ice, all seasons is about as good as 10 years old winter tyres.
I got by in CNY my first winter here with RWD and all-seasons (Michelin Primacy I believe, it was an FR-S). These were pretty fresh all-seasons - car was only a few months old that winter - but still showed me winter tires are optional here (but smart).
My Subaru STI came with _summer_ tires (and stupidly heavy and oversized wheels) so I HAD to get another set for winter.. but honestly I wish for the simplicity of just one set and those nice-sounding "all-weathers" with the mountain+snowflake.
I have a 2001 5 speed Subaru sedan. What I have found interesting. On snow, down shifting and working the clutch has a lot different feel. Using engine breaking instead of wheel braking makes a big difference. Take the clutch anytime.
engine breaking has the benefit of the differentials acting to distribute the load to all the tires. The wheels are being forced to decelerate, rather than stop. Engine braking cannot cause a lockup. This is also why properly heel toe downshifting while threshold braking drastically improves brake performance over braking in neutral or with the clutch in. Most modern autos will allow an approximation of this in manual mode, but it's not the same.
I’ve experienced sliding during engine breaking. I wouldn’t say it locked up, but I had to shift from 2nd to 3rd to keep the truck from sliding as we drove off the mountain. It was touch and go the first half mile.
If you have a manual it is possible stop the engine and the slippery surface could make it impossible to get the engine going again, so the wheel can lock up and make the car harder to control.
With a automatic the gearbox provides very little or no brake force, unless special winter settings or locking the box to manual, but that is not practical to do when the car starts to slide. Other more important things are going on then to change gearbox settings.
For most normal non race car drivers or drivers that maximum see 1 month of snow each year the brakes with ABS and stability control will be the best option over engine breaking.
When I drive the motor bike in the snow and the back wheel locks up and engine dies, you are gone if the clutch is not pulled immediately.
You live where A) it snows, and B) cars aren't completely destroyed by road salt within 15-20 years?
I wanna move there!
-- another manual Subaru owner
The engine braking is just gentler, you can do the same with light application of the brakes
I watch Tyre Reviews often, but I still got many new information from this video. Very interesting and educative :)
Well done! A very comprehensive and easy-to-follow matrix of front vs rear vs AWD drive vehicles using the 3 tire types. I’ve got a 2023 Model 3 RWD with a set of used winter tires. Not sure how well they work in snow, as we’re still waiting for significant snowfall here in SE Wisconsin. But as they’re partially worn, will definitely look at the Hankook EV snows as the need arises. You have an incredibly clear presentation style.
You have the most reactive traction control system, despite having an open differential, it will do pretty well.
The Regen braking is actually the biggest benefit, it can usually muster considerably shorter stopping distances than ABS braking.
On my awd I've noticed I can get nearly full Regen deceleration on black ice with good all season tires (Michelin cross climate 2). Compare that to using brakes and ABS and having basically no stopping power.
Driven fwd, rwd and now currently have for the first time awd vehicle. All of them always been with winter tires during cold season and I gotta say, you don't need AWD but its hella advantage over others in case of convenience and less stressful situations going uphill in traffic or where there is a lot of snow you don't need to worry about getting out of your parking space when most of them during blizzards don't get cleaned up.
Winter tires are a necessity for me. I can’t tell you how many times they’ve saved my ass in a RWD car while the AWD SUVs on all seasons are slipping all over the place around me
True but those vehicles have garbage AWD systems and typically also fitted with poor performance all season tires. My WRX with Continental extreme contacts all seasons drives great even when it's icy or snowy. Obviously you have to be careful because the braking performance isn't as good as winter tires would be but it's still easily drivable and easily out performs all the SUVs. In fact I once had someone in a jeep SUV try following me around a corner at the same speed as me and they did a 360 turn in the opposing lane mid turn, meanwhile for me I considered it a "slow and careful" turn.
@@username8644 It doesn't matter what system you have if you have no traction.
WRX vs (any) SUV. You have much better weight distribution and center of mass and WRX is much lighter too.
Heavy brick on ice won't turn.
@@XtreeM_FaiL The AWD systems in SUVs are actually usually not even in AWD and at best are 30-70. So yes it does make a difference compared to a proper AWD system like on my WRX (or even better the STI).
Know what you mean. I used to own a Mercedes RWD automatic and never had any trouble in the snow using winter tyres. Always got to work and back mixed road driving 60 miles round trip. Once slowly passed my neighbours Landrover fitted with summer tyres wheels spinning going nowhere. Driving skills are important too.
@@username8644 My point is that even if you have proper 4x4 with differential locks, you still need proper tyres or you will not go anywhere. Anywhere where you want to go.
I think it would be really cool to see what stats/studies/math you could pull out to explain how a tire's age and/or tread depth can effect performance. As someone who lives a normal life and likes getting his money's worth, but also likes being able to stop at fresh red lights in the winter.
I remember when i bought my 2017 WRX out here in Ohio right before the winter. They came with Dunlop Sport Maxx RT summer performance tires and i could not believe how much traction i was getting in all depths of snow. As long as the snow wasnt higher than my front cover lip i was good to go. When those went bald i just bought High Performance All season tires and they were perfect.
Having AWD (and Ice tires) I noticed a huge difference when driving in Saint John, NB in winter which is very hilly, icy and snowy in the winter in terms of control and handling.
That's becase all 4 wheels are contributing to moving the vehicle, as opposed to 2 wheels contributing and 2 actively working against you moving.
People that say nobody needs AWD are silly.
My understanding is that the beefy tread at the shoulder is important for grip while turning, pulling yourself out of deep ruts, or powering through unplowed snow. I would be concerned about rounding that shoulder off particularly in the case of EVs which are already disadvantaged for cornering even in the summer. Perhaps a future analysis could include some data beyond straight-line performance?
He overlooked your points. Most of us are not looking to great acceleration on snow but just not getting stuck or avoiding uncontrolled slides on ice.
If the tread doesn't have weight on it, it's not doing anything.
Manufacturers added all sorts of unused tread to the sidewalls for marketing because they look cool. Until you air the tire down enough to fold over and put weight on it, it's all for looks.
Amazing report
Thanks
Very awesome video... I live in northern Ontario, with a fair bit of snow in the winter, and a very hilly road... totally go for the AWD and snow tires!
One bit in the video caught my eye... I do the same thing - when I get into a vehicle in the winter (with loose snow around), I also 'tap my boots' to get rid of the snow before lifting my feet into the car!
Really good video! I like how your theory is so relatable! When a lot of other TH-camrs use theory as a point it is often easy to find faults to the theory, or point out where it doesn't relate to reality. I really appreciate how you took your time to make all these calculations. Only complaint this time is that you only mentioned 4wd as an advantage on an incline or when accelerating. What about getting stuck? If the snow is slippery enough, and there is enough of it, you often see cars getting stuck, where 4wd cars will just drive through it (to a certain point). Where I live people get stuck in the snow in the winter time, and at the beach in the summertime 😅
Thanks! And you're absolutely right about getting stuck - I have a (very!) brief comment on it at 9:45.
@@EngineeringExplained Winter tires aren't only for snow, there are climates where the weather is cold (below or at 7°C) and it's raining a lot and snowing maybe for 1-2 weeks and that's the snowfall they get for the year.
The winter tires compound and thread depth is made for slush and a lot of rainfall for those times of the year.
The downside to the extra traction of 4wd is the masking effect. With more traction drivers are not as aware of slippery roads and can more easily overdrive the conditions. (Which is why I drive my SUV in 2wd most of the time)
@@shiftfocus1 And winter tires can do exactly the same.
Both AWD and dedicated winter tires is the way to go. AWD helps you ‘go’ in winter snow and ice, and helps you turn to some extent. AWD does not help you stop. You need to be able to do all three. Go, turn and stop. If you want to be totally dialed in for challenging winter driving, get AWD and winter tires as well. I drive from the Boston area to Maine many weekends in the winters to ski. I mount dedicated winter tires to my audi (with quattro) and this setup rules. Tires are more important than AWD though. AWD is nice to have for tough winter driving. Good winter tires are awesome. They make more difference than AWD.
I drive an STI (love those LSD's) and I agree.
I _do_ wish I could switch it to RWD when it's not snowy though, like a Jeep lol.
(Or a Focus RS)
I love nerding out with you Jason.
I have a 09' Subaru Forester 2.5 X. It is lowered on coilovers and has a fully adjustable suspension. I live in Michigan and run Sumitomo HTR A/S P03 tires from October to April and Falken Azenis RT615K+ during the warmer months. I have never had a problem getting stuck, not being able to stop or accelerating in the snow or ice during the winter.
Blizzaks have been a game changer for winter driving. Where I live we get 500”+ of snow and I have no worries driving anymore.
Edit: I guess not “no worries”. Other drivers on summers or 3 season tires I worry about. Especially the ones too confident because they have AWD and think it’s gonna help them magically stop somehow.
You needed to include the fourth category of All-Weather tires. Can be driven all year long but have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol - ie Michelin CrossClimate 2.
He did a video on these in the recent past... Wonder if he included data like this though
Very impressive that through such a small detail like tire's you can get the drag difference between a brick Volvo 850 and a Mazda RX-8 difference in drag coefficient. 👏
Thank you. I love this kind of content.
All wheel drive is very useful when you have a lot of snow. I live in Anchorage, Alaska, and two wheel drive vehicles (even with winter tires), tend to not be able to go places on our street when a moderate snowfall of 12 inches has happened until the snow plow comes by 2 weeks later.
Now, some of us have reasons to use our vehicle more often than that, and use AWD vehicles.
What's always missing from these comparisons are tests on wet and cold asfalt.
That is the most common winter surface you'll be driving on. Most populated areas will usually have the snow cover removed by late morning, or a few hours after the snowfall ends.
Loose, fresh snow is a very rare condition. It is not irrelevant to tyre choice, but cold and wet tests would be a very useful addition.
While you are correct that tests on wet and cold asphalt would be nice, you are incorrect when you say it's the most common surface you will be driving on.
That's definitely not always the case. In my city many suburban roads are still completely covered in a dense layer of hard packed snow in the winter, even after plowing. Not to mention that side streets are often plowed far less frequently, so recent snowfall is left untouched for days sometimes.
Then there's all the people who live in rural areas where roads simply aren't plowed.
Also, I think the reason those tests weren't included is because they matter far less. Grip on asphalt is probably always going to be substantially better than grip on snow, regardless of tire choice, so the deltas between results would be far smaller.
You should check out the ADAC tests; they do exactly that every year.
To be fair, all-seasons should perform near identically to a winter tire on non-snowy, cold roads
@@specialopsdavehugely depends on all seasons. Some are made with summer rubber compounding, turning into hard plastic discs in freezing conditions.
Others are made with winter focused compounding and will be fine.
Since that is one of the key ingredients. Remember tires work by pliably deforming to squish against the road to have more contact surface. That is why tires are rubber instead of plastic. Well summer tires start to turn more to plastic in freezing conditions. Not squishing down as much, which decrease the size of contact patch. Regardless of snow, asphalt or ice.
Also in freezing there is never clean asphalt. It might look like clear asphalt, but that most likely means one has encountered one of winters most treacherous road surfaces.... Black ice. Thin sheen of near imperceptible ice and frost on top of asphalt due to air moisture freezing against the cold surface. It looks like one should stop just fine, but instead one is working against ice.
If its abive freezing, then it might really be just clear asphalt. However in freezing conditions, always assume there is either snow or ice on the surface. Since that is what air humidity does on contact with cold surfaces, it freezes to ice.
check stopping distances at low temperature. the one to two car lengths you save with winter tires could be an accident avoided.@@specialopsdave
Really interesting and informative as ever.❤❤
Good explanation, some fine details, that I wasn’t up on!
Being a Canadian with almost 50 years driving experiences,
I’m a firm believer in running snow tires!
Studded snow tires, when necessary!
Here on Vancouver Island, where we have only a little snow,
I now run All Weather tires.
Many Canadians run two set of rims, one Summer, & one Winter.
That saves stretching the tires, on & off rims,
every year for both sets of tires!
It also makes it easier to change them, in your driveway!
Drive carefully folks, smile often!
I live in Southeastern Pennsylvania and have used a set of winter tires on a separate set of (cheap aftermarket alloy) wheels for several different FWD cars. From Easter to Thanksgiving, I run high performance summer tires on the OEM wheels. Best of both worlds. Tires over the two sets of wheels last long and the car performs at it's best all year round. I say to people you wear lightweight, comfortable shoes in the summer and boots in the winter on your feet. Do the same with your car and you'll be happier and safer.
I carry two sets as well. The stock alloy wheels have three all season tires and the winter snow tires are on basic steel rims, so that no snow gets inside the rim and upsets the balance
Always said tires are the most important system on the vehicle. Your brakes and steering don't do a thing if your tires can't put those inputs to the ground. Don't skimp on your tires.
it's where the rubber meets the road
Shout out to Tyre Reviews for helping pull together some data for this video! It's an awesome channel if your desire for tires is never fully satiated; so many interesting tests conducted! www.youtube.com/@tyrereviews
simple awnser ''NO'' awd is not needed
recently discovered Tyre Reviews, and yeah it's great tire info
Any suggestions for an all season/performance tire? I live in Boise and drive a Miata.
CalTrans won't let you drive through the Donner Pass in a blizzard unless you have spiked tires, chains or AWD. I moved to Cleveland and have to drive all around the Midwest for work, and I'm from here originally, so I know for a fact that AWD doesn't mean sh!t when the entire roadway has frozen... which it sometimes does.
Snow compromises traction in different ways at different times, but any two wheel drive vehicle with winter specific tires is always better than four drive wheels with zero traction. AWD with specialized rubber is the best, but AWD on its own can also make some people overconfident.
No matter what you drive, if you live where it snows regularly and you don't have a second set of tires, you're only biding your time before you find yourself with zero traction at an importunate occasion.
I am surprised you didn't note how importand Limited slip differentials are, because without your traction is limited to the worst gripping driven wheel.
Absolutely phenomenal video. Thank you so much for making this and making these graphs.
Also, in my opinion and with all due respect to those specific winter tires with the clever design. I don’t care about noise whatsoever. I would much rather prefer tires with as little compromise whatsoever when it comes to grip. Even if I have to sacrifice my ears in the process. I am aware I’m fairly alone in saying that, and there is a large number of people who would prefer the quieter tire with a couple small compromises.
This makes alot of sense. And I have eye witness testimony of my fwd car with snow tires not getting stuck. In an area where awd suvs with all season tires are getting stuck
I not only went out and got a 22 wrx because of your coverage, i specifically bought winter tires for it last year. Such noticeable deference. Thank you Jason.
Hakka 10s over Blizzacks. I haven't tried other brands.
I got a '20 STI partly for the same reason lol.
Doing just fine on Sottozero 3s, much less "wiggle" than the Blizzak WS8s I used on my old FR-S.
I always hated winter until I bought an STi and put Toyo Observe G3-ice with studs on it. Now I can't wait to get outside when it snows, this is so much fun to drift on every corner. We usually get between 3 to 5 meters of snow per winter where I live, so this was the best gift I gave myself, ever.
Can you do another video using All Weather tires instead of All Season. Thanks 👊
When I had a long commute in southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois, I used winter tires on my MazdaSpeed 6 (AWD). After the OE summer tires wore out, I switched to running all-season tires for spring through fall. Getting caught in early fall or late spring snowstorms on summer tires is not fun. Having three sets of wheels/tires and swapping them four times a year might have actually been justifiable when I was driving huge yearly miles. Now that I am retired, I am happy using all-season tires year-round on my AWD CTS. If there is a big snowstorm, I have the option of just staying home until the roads are clear.
Speed 6, awesome car, I wanted one for so long. Like a different approach to the Evo and WRX.
And I get that. I'm in NY where obviously it snows often enough, but after two cars with separate winter/summer sets, and all my prior experience with all-seasons in snow, ideally I'd just have one set of darned good winter-rated all-seasons (they're better than ever these days).
I live in PA and never had 4WD or AWD. Only FWD and usually only used all seasons and have been pretty much fine. However about 6 years ago I switched to snows in the winter and I will probably always use them from here on out. Definitely improves confidence.
Do you need winter tires? Only if you need to stop in snow or ice. Stopping is the problem that most people run into. When they lose grip, they cause accidents. We have 4 winter tires on the wife's Mazda 3, My VW US Passat TDI, and on my Mom's Subaru Impreza Sedan. But on the same snow/icy driveway, my mom's Impreza has traction where my Passat does not (same Blizzak tires). That AWD system works, and I feel that she is better off with the Subaru Impreza, then her old Impala.
She definitely is better off
I can't stand not using snow tires anymore because of the lack of being able to get started or control turns without them. All seasons just spend a heck of a lot of time spinning.
Used to drive a Scion FR-S through several winters. Winters tires are mendatory in Quebec, Canada. Now I own a RWD Model 3. YOU DONT NEED THE AWD version, just dont get crappy winter tires :)
I live in central NY state, and also drove an FR-S for 5 winters here. Winter tires aren't mandatory (it may be only just less snowy than Quebec lol) but I did use them all winters except the 1st.
Totally agree with you, and if they had made a RWD Subaru STI that's the version I would've gotten!
(The Scion did fine with its factory all-seasons too, of course with reduced driving confidence)
About 5 years ago in my 2013 Audi S4 (333 bhp, low slung) I was driving home in a heavy snow on an unplowed Chicago sidestreet. I came up on a small roundabout where a Chevy pickup was stuck (guessing FWD w/ no-seasons). I had a stop sign so I was a bit worried but Quattro + Blizzaks got me through with no problem while the pickup driver just stared. I can only imagine him wondering how I got through scraping the belly pan while he was stuck. Just reinforces that you need to be properly equipped for the conditions (summers were super sticky Bridgestone RE71s because I autocrossed, those had insane grip!)
Adding weight definitely increases traction, provided you practice correct weight distribution. Adding weight to the drive axle definitely increases traction.
Dropping tire pressure is also key to enhancing traction.
“Adding weight doesn’t increase traction.” Then he proceeded to give an overly complicated explanation of increasing traction in a RWD truck, just without saying “traction.” 😅
@@hornback86I think he meant that adding weight doesn’t increase traction just by itself. You have to put it on top of the driving axle.
Tires, had an 2004 mustang Gt for 3 years, , bought a set of blizzak’s. I could accelarate, brake and change lanes quickly in 6 inches of snow, my front bumper would partially plow my buddies driveway who lives in the country, nothing better than ripping past a bunch of lifted trucks on mud tires in a blizzard in my mustang…. It truly was unbelievable what could do, then got a set a blizzaks on my trailblazer ss…. Basically had winter rally stage suv…
Haven't watched the video yet, but will state this: taxi cabs in the Tahoe area run studded winter tires on retired police cruisers (RWD) and do better than all the Bay Area folks with all seasons on their AWD SUV's. Cops in Aspen used to use FWD Saabs with snow tires. The main reason for AWD is being able to get through chain control, good tires are SO much more important. Ask anyone with an Audi or Mercedes AWD SUV that came with summer tires.
Nothing beats a good set of snow tires. All cars have all wheel braking and that’s what really counts.
What's funny is those cars once on good tires are incredibly competent in the snow. Its simply their ignorance that causes them issues.
@@memememine1 Heck yeah their competent, although with the old police cruisers there is definitely a fair bit of oversteer to contend with; the cab drivers seem to be very comfortable steering with the right foot.
@@brentlanyon4654 oh lmao I actually meant the crossovers. But yes there's nothing like sliding a rwd car in winter. I think people only say fwd is better in the snow because they cannnot handle oversteer.
Ran Blizzaks on an Integra coupe and a Mazda6 wagon for about 18 years total. It was AMAZING. I could go and stop as easily as I wanted. Quite often passing AWD and 4WD vehicles. A handful of times I have zero doubt it was the tires that allowed me to make it home in a blizzard. I also ran Continental ExtremeContact DWS in light snow on the Mazda- very impressed. Then ran them on C300 4Matic- also impressed. I'm now down to CX-5 Signature AWD with Pilot Sport 4 AS and waiting to see how it goes. IF it actually snows in Iowa this winter. But modern snow tires are amazing.
Amazing - my first car was an Integra, and *somehow* during an ice storm it was stolen, while on summer tires! They didn't go very far... but they did steal it.
@@EngineeringExplained LOL Yeah, I can't picture that going well. First snowfall with my '92 and I was making my first everTire Rack order a day later.
Conditions and the snow itself make such a big difference when it comes to snow driving. Snowfall today in Iowa when it has been 20 deg F for the past month is quite different than snowfall today in Seattle when it was 55 deg F 8 hours earlier, as I found out when I moved there. The high moisture content snow would land on warm streets, turn to slush then compact into what I want to call gel ice. No fun at all.
I am always impressed to hear things I don't understand put in terms that I do.
Great video Jason! And thanks for doing all the incline math so I don't have to. Comparing max incline ability was a great analysis.
Winter tires + Toyota hybrid powertrain has been an awesome winter combo. The very linear electric power delivery makes it easy to get moving, even on packed snow and ice.
Try a full BEV, even better, our tesla M3 is the best car I've ever had on snow and ice (with winter tires of course) and I've driven hundreds of different cars
@@JBean_COCRNext car. 👍
There is also the question on rims. Steel rims and taller sidewalls are better when you might slide into curbs/etc.
I have space/tools to store and switch wheels, so I have a summer and a winter set.
Low profile tires are just fashion items and suck in every way.
@@truantrayoh, tell me about it.
I wanted a Subaru STI because I like certain things about it.
Engine sound/performance, transmission, brakes, styling, and WR Blue paint.
These factory 19" wheels? Super heavy and expensive to buy tires for!
My winter set is on lightweight 18" wheels I got on clearance.
Reasonable but I would've preferred 17's like the base WRX (but they wouldn't clear the STI's brakes).
beautiful winter driving footage
This is such a great sum up on tires in general
Thank you for being unbiased here. As a Vermonter I have owned AWD and FWD cars and for my driving needs there are just some scenarios FWD will NOT conquer no matter what tire. I have to park at the bottom of a hill and AWD with winter tires are virtually unbeatable, wheras FWD on winter tires still struggle to get up.
I agree scott
I've gotten by with rwd on all-seasons in super snowy CNY (and less snowy LI), but you really gotta know how to pick your battles.
(Now I have AWD and summer/winter sets)
The trick to get up a difficult hill with wrong wheel drive (FWD) is to drive in reverse up the hill...
I live in an area with a lot of hills and I used to be able to get by with winter tires on my FWD car, but now that I have an AWD car with winter tires, it just makes that so much easier and less stressful. I don't have to worry about having enough momentum (coming up on a slower vehicle was always the worst) to make it up certain hills now.
Id like to see a test of winter vs summer tires on dry pavement but in cold temperatures. This is something i rarely see
There are literally hundreds of these tests all over TH-cam. Huge difference.
Hello from Montreal where snow tires are mandatory from December to march. I think CAA did testing of different tires and their rubber compounds. The so called black ice has caused so many accidents that the government of Quebec implemented the law. We have no fault insurance here, so we can’t sue anybody. There are so many brands now to choose from, they’re so good that studs are not common. I drive an Acura RDX with all wheel drive and a google pair of snow tires. I never get stuck but course if you don’t adjust your driving in bad weather it doesn’t matter what you have. All the best
I drive Rwd challenger in Minnesota winters, snow tires were a game changer
Well Done ! I learned a few things (a terrible let down since I thought I knew EVERYTHING !(grin)
The comparisons amongst tires & wheels driven was an eye opener.
It's so great to see the numbers. I didn't run winter tires for a long time because I was too poor, and though I never had an accident, I had a few scary spin-outs over the years. I've never had an issue since I've been able to afford winter tires, even in FWD cars (probably because of rarely needing to climb hills, as you demonstrated). I've got a Subaru Outback now, so it's nice seeing how much of an improvement it will be to have AWD + winter tires once the snow really hits.
I do not really inderstand the "too poor". You need to replace tyres after a certain amount of miles. May be changing after 40000 miles. If you have 2 sets of tyres they will last together 80000 miles.
It makes no difference if one set is a wintertyre set and the other a summertyre set....or if they both are summer tyres (Except that 2 different sets minimize the chance on an accident . And accidenbts are things you shouls avoid as much as possible when you have less money)
@@reiniernn9071It's not complicated: you can't spend money you don't have. I've known many people who can barely only afford one set of used A-S tires and use them longer than they should. They'd _like_ to have more money to be able to buy what they "need", but they don't, so they can't.
@@reiniernn9071not everyone has $600+ to spend on another set of tires
@@node_deer Someone with a car needs that 600 anyway....assuming driving the same total distance.
Then you shouldn't be driving if you can't do it safely. The logic evades people.
I just bought a set of Nokian Winter tires for my Accord Coupe in Chicago. Part of the reason is my 4 all season Michelins have maybe 5,000 miles left on them (worn, but ok for non-winter) and with winter approaching and the fact that I drive late at night (no sun to help the salt melt) "pushed me over the edge" to buy them. Most people think "I am wasting my money" and don't NEED them. Yes, I don't NEED them, but an improved grip driving from work late at night, sometimes on elevated expressways SHOULD improve my safety and bring peace of mind. In the LONG RUN, and if you keep your vehicle a long time, winter tires don't cost you much (their cost is offset by reduction in wear on your non-winter tires). Most folks want everything rolled into the car payment, go figure!
That's a good point, that you're not putting miles on the other set when the winters are equipped.
However, there's a cost for either having the tires swapped out twice a year or buying another set of wheels for the other tires.
Cool car btw. And Nokian is supposed to be the very last word in winter tires, should do extremely well for you.
Thanks Jason!
I had a long steep driveway for a rural home that regularly trapped people with all seasons and AWD/4WD but Blizzaks and FWD could get up no problem. In varying winter conditions, studless or studded winter tires seem to have a larger performance gap than even your tests indicate.
In Chicago the big sell of AWD has been not getting stuck in snow drifts, snow piles, or trying to park or get out of a parking spot especially in denser parts of the city where parking is tight and you dont want to use momentum to get out of a spot because you will likely hit another parked car. In these tight space low speed conditions I found having traction on at least 2 or 3 wheels is better than one wheel which is often the case on very uneven parking spots no matter the tire type.
Chicago in the winter? Just get an electric vehicle. No worries about maneuvering in slippery conditions when the car is dead.
@@percyfaith11 lol
Hey Jason, there's a mistake in the equation for calculating the frictional coefficient at 1:38
The velocity should be squared.
μ=v²/(2*d*g)
He corrected it in the first comment. Says he used the correct equation for the calculation results, but didn't keyboard it correctly onto the image.
@@YewtBoot You're right, he did correct the equation. But note the comment you replied to was made 3 days before Jason's correction, therefore the comment was valid at the time.
There are so many tests and so much information available that confirm the superiority of winter tires on snow and ice. It can’t be over reported or understated. Even though loads of morons where I live will refuse to do anything smart or responsible, I appreciate every big channel spreading this information. Thanks!
Any chance you might be willing to cover studded winter tires vs non studded in terms of winter traction in various conditions? Ah, found it from 3y ago, you’ve done it all, best channel ever!