Did Tesla Nerf the New 4680 Model Y? Battery Pack Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- The 2022 Tesla Model Y With 4680 Cells Is here, but details are limited! Elon Musk has not provided us too much information, but luckily TH-camrs like Sandy Munro and The Limiting Factor exist. In today's video we analyze the 4680 structural pack teardown and see why Tesla might be hiding something. We talk about the battery capacity, range, and the calculations behind the reasoning.
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4680 Model Y Teardown and resources:
• 4680 Update Structural...
• Tesla 4680 Teardown: ...
• 2022 Model Y Giga Texa...
Timestamps:
00:00 4680 structural pack teardown and updates
00:24 New battery pack configuration
01:15 2170 vs 4680 cell
02:36 More than 67 kWh of capacity!?
04:24 Playing devil's advocate
05:25 Curb weight of Model Y
06:30 Is Tesla electronically limiting the pack?
#Tesla
#ModelY - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Do you think Tesla is electronically limiting range in the new Model Y?
Yes the 4680 models to make it even with the 21700/18650 models
No, I don’t think so. They are using 4680s because they can make them faster. That’s all.
Wow. That was brilliant. Thank you.
Curiously, 81kWh is about another 25% on top of 67kWh. Tesla seems to be following the 1m miles initiative, and perhaps is limiting usable capacity to maximize battery life. They are likely not allowing charging to full capacity or discharging past a voltage to improve battery life. I remember seeing a chart that showed percentage discharge ranges versus how long the battery life lasted in terms of recharge cycles, and I assume this is the case.
More info here: batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries
They are testing the battery longevity locking the cells capacity from 10 to 90%
They are definitely limiting the pack. All evidence points to this and you left out the additional fact that the Limiting factor also had the energy density verified by the lab with small coin size samples. This makes the most sense and fully explains why the new lower mileage variant has never actually formally gone on sale. Also explains the newest data point that shows them stockpiling model Y 4680 structural packs as battery pack production is now ahead of 4680 Model Y production. When they stock enough (build up buffer) and they are confident the battery production rate will keep up with the car production rate, then they will announce the new 340 mile EPA version. My guess that is around the start of Q1. Don’t forget they have Panasonic supply ramping up in 2023 as well. If they get a buffer of 4 or 5 months, and then get battery production ramping up faster, they can pull the trigger.
What camera/mic do you use to make your videos? Great breakdown btw!
Just a webcam and an Amazon mic. I'm looking to upgrade both in the near future
Because the goal of Tesla is to accelerate the world's transition to sutainable energy. And that means more EV's on the road. Maybe it takes a lot longer to get out a valid chemistry for 4680 batteries so that it would achieve >270 wh/kg. In the meantime, if they have usable batteries and they need 828 cells to make the pack structural, why not do it? Yes, it's an EV with lower range than the maximum potential, but maybe they're not AT maximum potential yet. If they get 4680's with 230 wh/kg out on the road they not only gain more knowledge on the 4680's themselves but also gain more revenue, more customers, more income and they will replace an ICE on the road and get closer to their goal, which is: accelerate the world to sustainable energy.
Just my 2c.
This makes sense especially with the model S plaid they are limiting its top speed to 175 mph when it was originally going to be 200 but some guy actually bypass these limitations and got it up to 216 and it would have continuously accelerate 5 mph every second if he hadn't run out of runway, even the acceleration is electronically limited however it's probably for safety since the street tires cannot handle anymore.
Another possibility is some of the cells are blank filler cells for the sake of the structural battery pack.
I don't think so. When Sandy Munro took apart the 4680 Model Y he sold off the bulk of the batteries to buyers. If that were true, it would have quickly come out in headlines as the various used 4680 battery buyers would have openly complained.
You made a Gordon Murray t50 and t50s 1/4 mile and thank you so much for that
Could you please make a valkyrie 1/4 mile??
A Model Y extended by 1 or more additional cell groups in each battery module would have more range, space and more charging power because the charging voltage would be higher.
Then a compact car underneath could be a bit larger and have more range.
I definitely think that Tesla is electronically limiting range. Until they can fully ramp up 4680 battery production in GigaTexas they cannot fully reveal the batteries full capabilities.
People who have this 4680 are just testing it for tesla after a few months or years they will lift those limitations and show the true range/power
I think they have introduced this because they can build them faster. Doesn’t matter about cost, they can assemble them faster and have insane demand that they can’t keep up with.
If it is electronically limited couldn’t a jailbreak prove that it is?
Seems very plausible. I’d love to know more about what kind of buffers Tesla uses, especially for the 21700 model Y. Maybe the old model Y also has a massive buffer?
According to EPA documentation the 2022 Model Y LR has a physical capacity of 84.6 kWh. I believe usable capacity is around 81 kWh so the buffer is not much.
@@MotorMatchup that’s a pretty small buffer! I think that further supports your suggestion, Tesla may be limiting the capacity of the 4680 model y
@@MotorMatchup also the 4680 cost 50% less to make vs 21700/18650
All battery EVs have a stated battery capacity and for each, the usable battery capacity is known. The difference arises because batteries last longer if you do not charge to the max voltage or discharge to the lowest. Tesla may be more conservative with this new design in terms of the proportion of available capacity it allows to be used, in order to trade range for battery life.
You are not doing apples for apples comparisons with your quoted pack sizes by capacity.
And also they will absolutely be using 4%-90% SOC charge profile. And they are still in iteration stage of the cell.
What would be an apples-to-apples comparison?
Why wouldn't they use a reduced number of cells to do this? If they wanted to restrict it to a set mile range in order to avoid the osbourne effect, couldn't they just do this by putting fewer cells in the pack? That way they could then also build more cars with the same cell supply. BTW I think you are correct that they are limiting it - as you describe these energy density numbers and weight would not make sense. It does make me wonder though - since this is a structural battery pack, maybe could it be important to have the cells in expected locations in order to provide the required structural strength.
Which then makes me wonder if some of these cells could even be fake cells - which are just filled in with some substance to provide the needed structural strength.
Exactly, these are great points. Based on the Munro Live teardown there are 828 cells in 4 identical modules. It is possible when they finish the teardown they reveal a different number of cells or dummy cells, but I think that's very unlikely. I think part of the motivation for more cells and limiting it now, is that down the road they want to make one Model Y variant (physically) to simplify production. Then they can change software and small things for different trims (like the performance model for example).
And yes it's also possible that all of those cells are needed to maintain the structural pack effectiveness.
@@MotorMatchup Thanks for the reply :)
Yeah, I'd forgotten about the Munro teardown. I guess if they'd seen any fake cells they would have highlighted that big time at it would be a major news story. Though even now I do wonder if they've examined every cell or just torn into a few of them, lol.
It's sure going to be interesting though. As you described (great video as usual BTW!) it doesn't seem to add up - would seem they have to be intentionally limiting them. So, I'm hoping this becomes evident sooner rathern than later. I keep hoping they can use this to release an extra long range performance++ version of the Model Y. Which I'd love to trade up to (currently model 3 LR owner w/ performance boost).
The 4680 Y should be ~400lbs lighter than 21700 Y with the same kwh. Why only 150lbs?
As mentioned, it s First Gen, it might explode LOL
This whole software locking stuff is so annoying and anti-consumer.
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