Thank you for articulating so much of what I feel regarding this subject. As an almost 70-year old hobbyist, I feel very lucky to have a ramshackle, one car garage that is set up as my dedicated workshop. My collection of planes primarily consists of older Bailey style planes. Many of them are cheap off-brand "budget" models. That's OK. I started learning joinery as a rank beginner. My budget buys allowed me to make my sharpening and tune-up mistakes on tools that are neither expensive nor "collectible (at topic worthy of its own rant)." As much by accident as design, I have also accumulated a few old Stanleys and Sargents that are quite nice hand planes. The upshot is this: After buying a couple modern mid-tier planes (a Wood River #4 1/2 and a Taytools #5). I don't pick either of them up very often. My old Stanley #4, Sargent 414, and Craftsman 22" joiner are my primary users. They work at least as well as their modern counterparts and as a bonus, are lighter in weight, which is a bonus for aging muscles. Rant away. You are exactly on target! Oh yeah, I also really enjoyed your Norton India Stone video.
Hi Mark. It's a difficult situation, part of me feels uncomfortable for posting the video, but broadly I'm happy with it. It's amazing to have some space to work in. I spent most of yesterday in the garage working on some stools. A wooden jack and a Record 5 1/2 were the order of the day! I think also that if you want to sell something it helps to have a shtick. It's a shame really as woodworking is a marvel to me as it is. I'll add a link to a lovely video from the 1970's. I could watch that kind of stuff a lot, there's lots of expertise on show. You prefer your planes with good reason. Actual use makes us appreciate what's best for us, swinging an excessive amount of weight is not desirable. We don't use our planes like we see in infomercials very often. Taking thin shavings off a board edge that's narrower than the iron proves nothing much aside from entertaining the crowd. Thanks for the encouragement, it's appreciated!
@@faceedgewoodworking Thank you for the link. Thanks to Norm Abrams and Roy Undersell, I've known about Colonial Williamsburg for a number of years. While I've been aware of many of the crafts practiced there, I had no idea that they included construction of sophisticated musical instruments. I've watched and thoroughly enjoyed part 1of the series. I'm definitely going to watch the remaining parts. Thanks again!
Hi I’m a old man who has enjoyed your videos love your views on tools I think they are amongst the best. Forget what others say or preach . I’m looking forward to your next video all the very best .
Gotta love an intelligent rant, and don't really think you have to caution for that magnitude of swearing. Glad you didn't delete the vid and I'm really enjoying your channel. I'm relatively new to woodwork and, as in any other field, TH-cam is an invaluable resource. As with anything that becomes successful, monitising becomes involved which in turn can ultimately be construed as politics. My approach to YT is to seek 'thinking' solutions rather than tool prescriptions, and I'm prepared to chuckle at/ignore a bit of advertising if a poster's content is otherwise helpful. Necessity will always be the mother of invention- as a hobbyist, I believe in learning to set up, use and maintain what tools you already have (which I haven't quite yet). Then you might not need to but a dominonononono. Thanks for the posts, please keep them coming. Cheers.
@@faceedgewoodworking I'm a professional drummer and teacher. The pandemic trounced all of that, though afforded me the time to investigate some ideas I'd had about drum manufacture (and rekindle my relationship with beans on toast). Wood cylinders obviously aren't the best place to start, so I'm trying to absorb and practise wherever I can. Small garden flat, so no workshop, have to work outside and be considerate to our neighbours. Keeps life interesting. Cheers.
Love it mate, agree with you 100%. I’m doing the best I can with the old inherited and vintage tools I’ve got in the limited space I can. My G grandfather made furniture out of a TINY shed with limited hand tools, and he made good functional furniture for his own home. I always think of him when I start to want nicer tools and more space. I would love these rambles/rants as a podcast!
Thanks James. I like your situation, having a strong figure in your life like that is great. I'm some way from a podcast, but I'm sure I can rustle up some ranty vids 😉
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I always respect the skill of people making nice furniture pieces, but anytime it is followed by "you need to have this specific brand/tool" I start to cringe a bit. I've been woodworking for only about two years and every two months or so I get new tool, only because i want to, and there is not a one i do not use (except perhaps a few sizes of drill bits). But most things i could have achieved with the things I got within the first year and would have been Ok. Woodworking does not have to be complicated and I am so glad that you keep bringing that point home.
Thanks Petr, I'm looking forward to sharing some more of these vids soon. It's heartening to know that a lot of people enjoy the simple approach. I really appreciate your feedback and the time you take to watch the videos.
Spot on! It also fed the demise of industrial arts and art in general in the school system; which has only served to cast an entire generation further headlong into the lie that only with university, government coddling, and the race between the cubicle and coffee shop is the path to happiness. There are threads of this that are intertwined in the death of marriage and raising a family, imagine the what will come out of the current generations when 20-30 years from now they are single/divorced, childless, and helpless to either sort out their own houses or any leisure fulfillment. I really think part of the reason I have gone more to a heavy 95/05 hand tool to power tool ratio is to maybe cling to those traditions more so just because I see what’s coming. Making simple shaker furniture, stick chairs/perches, utilitarian things is ‘chicken soup for the soul’, while furnishing your needs and your spirit. Do that for a bit of time and the sum of the furniture you fill a single room with will not only compliment each other, but the humble pride that it brings will help you dust off and attack the next day/year/decade. On a brief thought regarding the whole premium tools bit: (1) For me, hand tools over power tools free me to buy more lumber, learn more skills, get a better yield from that lumber, and ultimately I can have a wider range of tools because of the money I’ve not spent on a SawStop, drum sander, or a Power Mortiser. (2) There are cases where I’ve made a purchase of say, a Veritas tool that we’re indeed the right and best choice available; the Veritas Small Plow Plane is easy, accurate, capable, and when placed against a multitude of buying/making wooden ones or even a No° 45, the Veritas is in fact the best choice. The plane will even provide one with all the rabbet plane they’ll probably ever ‘need’, it can single handedly do all grooves, beads, T&G, shiplap, rabbet, and dados one needs. I am glad to see that there are companies like Wood River though for the reason that I think they’re making some breathing room in the vintage market; there are folks who’ll buy the mid grade market WoodRiver tool, do the extra work to get it across the line as far as performance goes, and by doing so, they’ve left one more Stanley/Sargent/Record No° 4, 5, 5-1/2 out there in the ‘wild’ for that guy who needs one to in fact find and maybe help too on the affordability front. I think the mid grade area is/has been and for awhile will be a hard place for companies willing to take the financial risks to enter. They’ve got to explore/experiment fail/succeed at striking the right balance of quality materials in the right places (avoiding the pitfalls of taking shortcuts in the wrong places like frogs/lateral adjusters/etc), having a balance of fit/finish, and doing all of that while making a product that is affordable without them losing money. I appreciate that there are some companies trying to do that, but there will be many failures along the way; Stanley and Record did the same after all. Thanks for the video and I hope you enjoy the weekend 👍
Gosh! I can't remember quite what I said in this one but I know I was a bit cranky! Reading through your comment there are many things I can identify with. At the end of the day, people can look at a simple craft through any lens, ultimately it's not my business. What I've learned through ranting and more sensible reflection is that it's far more productive for me to focus on sharing information in my own way. For me woodworking at home is simple recreation 😊
Love it you hit the nail on the head my apprentice tools were what I could scrounge ,put on grandads account what the other joiners didn't want ,grandad saying was you can only piss with what you got
I REALLY like that Millers Falls on the right. It's very sexy. All that being said, I have to agree with you about what you've said. I own mostly old Stanley's that I've bought at flea markets and antique stores. Stores that don't rake me over the coals for the price. I even get a 10-15% discount from the store I generally shop at because I am a frequent customer and I engage with the owner. The whole "WoodRiver/Lie Nielsen camp is great for those who can afford them, but I can buy 3 Stanley 4 1/2s for the price of one Lie Nielsen 4 1/2. Does my Stanley perform better or worse? Well, I had to clean my Stanley up and sharpen the blade, but that's a normal daily thing for a woodworker. I enjoy the work I put into my tools, just as much as the work I get FROM them. And, yeah, that Millers Falls plane you have on the right is very sexy! :)
Hi Timothy, it sounds like good new Woodworking tools are less expensive on your side of the pond and vintage ones are potentially more? The Millers Falls is a nice little plane, very rare here. Thanks for sharing your experience 👍
@@faceedgewoodworking No, new ones are quite expensive over here. That's why I was saying I could buy 3 old Stanleys for the cost of 1 Lie Nielsen. In fact, I could probably buy 4 Stanleys. The cost on the used planes can vary, depending on exactly location, age and condition of course. A nice pre-1945 4 1/2 is over 100USD Yeah that Millers Falls is definitely nice. I always had a thing for that lever cap. As weird as it is.
@@timothymallon I think our difference might be more acute. A good No.4 1/2 is only about £40 with a Clifton at £300 or more. LN are like hen's teeth right now. It's a shame Veritas went to Norris adjuster on their bench planes.
@@faceedgewoodworking A Clifton 4 1/2 is $404 USD here right now. A Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 is $360 USD. Both at current prices. Not sure how the conversion rate works for UK right now. Your ability to get a good 4 1/2 for 40, may also be partially due to the Made In England models. I can buy a 4 1/2 for $30-40 USD, but here, they're trash at that cost.
@@timothymallon £320 for the Clifton here, LN is £395, both are actually in stock! My Marples shown in my early video was £45 and in stunning condition, the Millers Falls No.4 £41. Hand Tools are plentiful here!
Been reading Chris Schwarz? There are two angles to this; In comparison to machines, the hands of a craftsman produce work of greater value that cannot just be measured monetarily. It holds cultural capital the same way a painting does over a print. You can pin a worthwhile philosophy to that. When honest, skilled work once produced for the everyman was overtaken in efficiency by power tools, jigs and CNC, handmade products were inevitably priced out of the everyman's reach. The issue for me is not that modern hand tool furniture makers sell reproductions for a high price, but bundle with it ideas they are in any way similar to a bodger of old, who manually operated treadle lathes in the forest churning out hundreds of spindles and chair legs a day for an average wage. I remember an episode of The Woodwright's Shop when Schwarz presented an ebony infill smoother with mother of pearl inlay, and Roy Underhill was quick to poke holes in any notion Chris was operating in the same way as an old modest journeyman. His set of Hollows and Rounds cost £7k. It's an expensive hobby, from which some will excel to the point they can charge high prices worthy of their name and work.
Hi Hymie It's one of the reasons I think the Anarchists Tool Chest is a poor book. Others disagree, it's been a success and encouraged many others into the fold. I actually made the chest for fun and then bought the book. Sold the book, kept the chest. On your first point, I think we would agree. There is a documentary that I will highlight next time and it shows, among other things, a chap who saw the Diana and Minerva Commode and was so in awe started on a journey of learning how to master sand shading, veneering and marquetry. And his results were stunning. I adore that simple motivation to want to elevate yourself and discover skills and knowledge that are unknown to you. That ability of pure craft, I won't just pin something on it. I'll celebrate it! On your second point, yes. And thank heavens it did happen that way. Also, yes, please don't hide behind thin veneers of hand crafted honesty when all the while you have every contrivance at hand as and when you need it. I see nobody living an authentic handmade life. It's a facade of bullshit. I have no grievance with success, in fact, be the best you can and if that brings wealth, congratulations! Buy a fabage egg of an infill (by the way it's fundamentally infiror tool for me that a 1960's Stanley), buy a full set of hollows and rounds and never use them! In both instances, his hard work and success allowed him to pay others to make in one instance, couture planes and on the other revive manufacturing of work-a-day planes. I don't hate the guy, he's given so much back. I just can't stand politics. There was a post he wrote recently where his revelation was that chairs were like a history of oppressors and the people they held down. While there is truth that if you are higher in a higherachy you will have a better chair. The same is true of clothes, food etc. If you get high enough in the pyramid, you might be able to afford to buy one of his chairs! I digress, thanks for the constructive comment.
Oh boy, a brave topic with politics - very admirable to tackle. I grew up working class, and I adore the more fancy furniture, but I temper my expectations according to my ability, and according to my finances and time spare. I build my furniture out of pine usually, but I try to make it as fine as I am able to - my little table that lives above the dog's bed isn't the best, but it's all joinery - it doesn't need any glue and can be disassembled and reassembled and it's just for extra space above the dogs bed! I do try to make my woodworking items for friends and family, as fine as I can without it being obsessive and ridiculous. After all, if I try to build a Chippendale Queen Anne High Boy with my cheapy gear and hand tools, it'll take me years - definitely only a project I'd ever make for myself. Got to enjoy the craft and be realistic with yourself and those around you I find. Sorry for the essay, TL:DR is that I enjoyed the rant and I share your frustrations with people making hobbies political. A hobby is a hobby :) Edit: A profession is a Profession also, didn't mean to exclude the pros! Looking forward to the second hand advice video.
Thanks! I think your experience is very much like most people. The deal with real high end stuff is that it was made by a team. I'd have to do my research but there were carvers, joiners, upholsterers and more! A lot of them too! We make what we make because it brings us joy, from a bird house to a bureau 👌
@@faceedgewoodworking A very good point on the team. Nobody was a "woodworker" until fairly recently historically, you were a Jointer, Cabinetmaker, Bodger etc. I love my little rubbish single dovetail pallet box as much as I do my nice pine table or bookcase. It's the joy in knowing you made something yourself and it'll last (and if it doesn't, you know how to fix it or make another!) Now all I have to do is recruit my friends and train them up and then we can all build a high boy... and fight to see who keeps it haha
To add my two cents, if you don't mind...I've always felt that the one "good" tool a new woodworker should spend money on is a decent quality backsaw. Restoring a vintage saw can be tricky, at least in my experience, and might require some specialty tools that a new woodworker won't have, or even have easy access to. So even if you are planning on eventually restoring vintage saws, starting off with a good quality saw at the least provides a frame of reference for future restoration. My other recommendation, this coming from an amateur mind you, is to seek out a Stanley #5. I understand that the #4 is more plentiful, and probably more useful to a newbie, but the #5 is quite plentiful, as well. And more importantly, I've never come across one that couldn't be used almost immediately after a quick sharpening. For whatever reasons, the #5's that I've come across have almost always been in remarkably great condition. A new woodworker gets the benefit of seeing a very high quality, functioning tool and feeling how it should handle without spending a half-week's pay....sorry about the rambling comment.
Bill, an excellent point! Yes, unlike a chisel or a Bailey plane, backsaws and indeed saws in general are much more difficult to get right. In this instance, Veritas and Lie-Nielsen offer great value options. This is why I want to make sure I'm not taking a dump on those companies. And yes, a No.5 is an excellent choice, very easy to set up and very useful for all woodworking tasks. Thanks for the excellent comment.
@@faceedgewoodworking I agree. I have an LN dovetail saw and I think it is an excellent tool, in particular for the money. I have an LN bench plane as well, and I view it like a high-end luxury car: Looks fantastic, handles great, extremely well made, but in the end probably unnecessary. Sadly, I rarely use it...I use the Stanley's that were given to me.
@@williamlattanziobill2475 I think the LN Dovetail saw is exceptional value. They were wise to buy Independence Tools. As you know it has a lovely handle and a proper brass back. In the current world of dovetail saws the LN is close to being budget! Their planes are superb too, it's just they don't offer the benefit like their saw does. I don't begrudge anyone buying everything high end, and then be told I need that stuff to do good work and go forth and save the dignity of the working man. It's as slippery as snake oil and smells like bullshit.
I saw a documentary series a while ago about various craftsmen from the past. I believe there was Chippendale and Grinling Gibbons ( Amongst others). I remember them saying that Chippendale was making furniture for the upper classes and there was a law basically preventing him from taking these people to court to get them to pay up due their place in society. Don't apologise for having a rant. I was nodding my head in agreement throughout.
Thanks Johnny, you might have been nodding your head, I was rocking and frothing at the mouth 😂. I've seen a documentary on Chippendale, but frankly an hour wasn't long enough.
@@faceedgewoodworking Mate you’re as clever as anyone. Unfortunately those who like to preach to us peasants aren’t half as clever as they think they are and nowhere near as clever as they want us to think they are. For reasons best left unsaid I think you are far from being alone in feeling pissed off at being the recipient of unwanted sermons on what is right or wrong, in woodwork or any area, from those who never follow their own ill-founded advice and invariably have no real knowledge or experience of the subjects of their sermons.
We do not remember the Arts & Crafts movement for their political hypocrisy, but for reminding us how wood should be joined together properly, after 70 years of Victorian garbage. Of course, the economics didn't pass scrutiny, but that is true of all genuine crafts. Roll forward a century. Joe Bloggs wants a table & chairs for his house. He might just get a set from the high street for £800-£1000. Nothing fancy, and it seems in line price-wise with his other furniture & appliances. The only way you can get anywhere near this figure is by using cheap materials and mass-production techniques. Nothing at all to do with the craft of woodwork. The only way the craftsman can survive in this marketplace is to sell to the rich with discerning tastes, specific requirements and deep pockets. Even so, the usual range of power tools alongside "proper tools" helps keep the hourly rate down. The hard-core hand tool craftsman is either non-commercial, or has a wealthy group of patrons. Just like in the 18th century!
Not all the Victorian work was garbage. For those in the middle classes who were easy prey for marketing, the thin veneers and shoddy processes were the beginning of disposable furniture. But quality was still being made in rural and vernacular styles. Even some of the more elaborate furniture of the Victorian time is of a perfectly good quality. I remember the Arts & Crafts crew for dreaming that the Middle ages was a golden age and trying to build an idea of utopia while lining their pockets. Genuine craft can pass economic scrutiny, sadly the term "craft' is wooly and open to wistful nonsense. I very much agree about your final statements. Building a base of patrons with enough clout to support a "dream" is no mean feat. Very much like becoming a fine artist, perhaps even harder? Especially when good quality brown antiques can be bought for less than the wood of a new item.
Each to their own ability. You don't have to make Chippendale furniture. To do it right you need a lot of tools but you can get by with a modest set. The thing is though that when you're starting out no one knows what those few tools are.
@@faceedgewoodworking how many planes and chisels does anyone really need? Far less than most of us have. I've thought about it and I could probably get by with 2 planes and 3 chisels. 3 planes and 4 chisels tops.
Hi my friend, sounds like your having a bad day alright, sorry to hear that, it comes to us all now and again, best to get it off your chest and have a rant, it doesn't solve anything but sometimes you feel better for it. Now the arts and crafts movement, as it was with the idle rich dipping their toes in a bohemian lifestyle, which if it failed they could quietly revert to there former sit at home spending money lifestyle, this was far removed from an actual craftsman working to earn a living, I know I was one, and my advice to anyone thinking of being a craft worker, is Don't give up the day job!, as trying to make money from art or craft work is harder than people think, at best it can be a lucrative hobby, at worst you'll loose alot of money. As for being tempted by flashy expensive tools and equipment, it reminds me of an old fisherman's saying, That fancy tackle catches more fishermen than fish, lol, now ain't that the truth. I rember a guy who had a garage full of the best equipment money could by, he also had an armchair, tv, and kettle, and just sat there not making anything, but was happy admiring all that he had, he'd found his kind of peace, at no small expense I might add, and his wife was happy knowing where he was each night. A few words of advice for someone who feels snowed under by life's ups and downs, Don't sweat the small stuff, because it's all small stuff in the end, and just because someone throws you a ball doesn't meet you have to pick it up, that applies to other people's troubles, family notwithstanding. Keep doing it your way, cheers mate, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
Hi Stuart, great comment. It's easy to be preachy when, as you point out, you have a massive safety blanket. I like the aesthetic of William Morris but he was an independently wealthy man who just just felt guilty. On the other hand, George Russell really evolved from that movement, I have a lot of time for his work. I hope to visit his museum one day. Great quote from the fisherman, another favourite of mine is " When Everybody Is Digging for Gold, It’s Good To Be in the Pick and Shovel Business". I think it applies well to the woodworking scene at the moment. I'm in a very good place but I this is a topic I've been simmering on for a while. 👍
...not a well-educated person... Formally, maybe, but you have given yourself an education by using tool number 1 (the stuff keeping your ears apart) for gathering information and obviously thinking about said information. And now debating your insights and opinions with us. Far more valuable than a degree in painting by numbers. Keep it up but only use a modest amount of modesty.😉
Thank you. I'm lucky that people seem to have been ok with the rant. I'm lucky that I'm a full time joiner so I do have practical experience. I appreciate you taking the time to comment ☺️
Thank you for articulating so much of what I feel regarding this subject. As an almost 70-year old hobbyist, I feel very lucky to have a ramshackle, one car garage that is set up as my dedicated workshop. My collection of planes primarily consists of older Bailey style planes. Many of them are cheap off-brand "budget" models. That's OK. I started learning joinery as a rank beginner. My budget buys allowed me to make my sharpening and tune-up mistakes on tools that are neither expensive nor "collectible (at topic worthy of its own rant)." As much by accident as design, I have also accumulated a few old Stanleys and Sargents that are quite nice hand planes. The upshot is this: After buying a couple modern mid-tier planes (a Wood River #4 1/2 and a Taytools #5). I don't pick either of them up very often. My old Stanley #4, Sargent 414, and Craftsman 22" joiner are my primary users. They work at least as well as their modern counterparts and as a bonus, are lighter in weight, which is a bonus for aging muscles. Rant away. You are exactly on target! Oh yeah, I also really enjoyed your Norton India Stone video.
Hi Mark. It's a difficult situation, part of me feels uncomfortable for posting the video, but broadly I'm happy with it.
It's amazing to have some space to work in. I spent most of yesterday in the garage working on some stools. A wooden jack and a Record 5 1/2 were the order of the day!
I think also that if you want to sell something it helps to have a shtick. It's a shame really as woodworking is a marvel to me as it is. I'll add a link to a lovely video from the 1970's. I could watch that kind of stuff a lot, there's lots of expertise on show.
You prefer your planes with good reason. Actual use makes us appreciate what's best for us, swinging an excessive amount of weight is not desirable. We don't use our planes like we see in infomercials very often. Taking thin shavings off a board edge that's narrower than the iron proves nothing much aside from entertaining the crowd.
Thanks for the encouragement, it's appreciated!
Hi Mark, part 1 of 4, fabulous stuff! th-cam.com/video/9x1_naNB4mo/w-d-xo.html
@@faceedgewoodworking Thank you for the link. Thanks to Norm Abrams and Roy Undersell, I've known about Colonial Williamsburg for a number of years. While I've been aware of many of the crafts practiced there, I had no idea that they included construction of sophisticated musical instruments. I've watched and thoroughly enjoyed part 1of the series. I'm definitely going to watch the remaining parts. Thanks again!
Hi I’m a old man who has enjoyed your videos love your views on tools I think they are amongst the best. Forget what others say or preach . I’m looking forward to your next video all the very best .
GG, glad you're enjoying it, thanks for making the time to watch ☺️
Gotta love an intelligent rant, and don't really think you have to caution for that magnitude of swearing. Glad you didn't delete the vid and I'm really enjoying your channel. I'm relatively new to woodwork and, as in any other field, TH-cam is an invaluable resource. As with anything that becomes successful, monitising becomes involved which in turn can ultimately be construed as politics. My approach to YT is to seek 'thinking' solutions rather than tool prescriptions, and I'm prepared to chuckle at/ignore a bit of advertising if a poster's content is otherwise helpful. Necessity will always be the mother of invention- as a hobbyist, I believe in learning to set up, use and maintain what tools you already have (which I haven't quite yet). Then you might not need to but a dominonononono. Thanks for the posts, please keep them coming. Cheers.
Thank you. I'm glad that you want to give woodworking a go, I often wonder how attractive it is to new people. What motivated you to get involved?
@@faceedgewoodworking I'm a professional drummer and teacher. The pandemic trounced all of that, though afforded me the time to investigate some ideas I'd had about drum manufacture (and rekindle my relationship with beans on toast). Wood cylinders obviously aren't the best place to start, so I'm trying to absorb and practise wherever I can. Small garden flat, so no workshop, have to work outside and be considerate to our neighbours. Keeps life interesting. Cheers.
@@theswime945 That's great! I hope you stick with it 👌
Love it mate, agree with you 100%. I’m doing the best I can with the old inherited and vintage tools I’ve got in the limited space I can. My G grandfather made furniture out of a TINY shed with limited hand tools, and he made good functional furniture for his own home. I always think of him when I start to want nicer tools and more space. I would love these rambles/rants as a podcast!
Thanks James. I like your situation, having a strong figure in your life like that is great. I'm some way from a podcast, but I'm sure I can rustle up some ranty vids 😉
,a cool video keep up the great content.. Thank you…..
Thank you, I'll do my best ☺️
@@faceedgewoodworking Thank you very mutch... have a nice day.... see you….
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I always respect the skill of people making nice furniture pieces, but anytime it is followed by "you need to have this specific brand/tool" I start to cringe a bit. I've been woodworking for only about two years and every two months or so I get new tool, only because i want to, and there is not a one i do not use (except perhaps a few sizes of drill bits). But most things i could have achieved with the things I got within the first year and would have been Ok. Woodworking does not have to be complicated and I am so glad that you keep bringing that point home.
Thanks Petr, I'm looking forward to sharing some more of these vids soon. It's heartening to know that a lot of people enjoy the simple approach. I really appreciate your feedback and the time you take to watch the videos.
Spot on! It also fed the demise of industrial arts and art in general in the school system; which has only served to cast an entire generation further headlong into the lie that only with university, government coddling, and the race between the cubicle and coffee shop is the path to happiness. There are threads of this that are intertwined in the death of marriage and raising a family, imagine the what will come out of the current generations when 20-30 years from now they are single/divorced, childless, and helpless to either sort out their own houses or any leisure fulfillment. I really think part of the reason I have gone more to a heavy 95/05 hand tool to power tool ratio is to maybe cling to those traditions more so just because I see what’s coming. Making simple shaker furniture, stick chairs/perches, utilitarian things is ‘chicken soup for the soul’, while furnishing your needs and your spirit. Do that for a bit of time and the sum of the furniture you fill a single room with will not only compliment each other, but the humble pride that it brings will help you dust off and attack the next day/year/decade. On a brief thought regarding the whole premium tools bit: (1) For me, hand tools over power tools free me to buy more lumber, learn more skills, get a better yield from that lumber, and ultimately I can have a wider range of tools because of the money I’ve not spent on a SawStop, drum sander, or a Power Mortiser. (2) There are cases where I’ve made a purchase of say, a Veritas tool that we’re indeed the right and best choice available; the Veritas Small Plow Plane is easy, accurate, capable, and when placed against a multitude of buying/making wooden ones or even a No° 45, the Veritas is in fact the best choice. The plane will even provide one with all the rabbet plane they’ll probably ever ‘need’, it can single handedly do all grooves, beads, T&G, shiplap, rabbet, and dados one needs. I am glad to see that there are companies like Wood River though for the reason that I think they’re making some breathing room in the vintage market; there are folks who’ll buy the mid grade market WoodRiver tool, do the extra work to get it across the line as far as performance goes, and by doing so, they’ve left one more Stanley/Sargent/Record No° 4, 5, 5-1/2 out there in the ‘wild’ for that guy who needs one to in fact find and maybe help too on the affordability front. I think the mid grade area is/has been and for awhile will be a hard place for companies willing to take the financial risks to enter. They’ve got to explore/experiment fail/succeed at striking the right balance of quality materials in the right places (avoiding the pitfalls of taking shortcuts in the wrong places like frogs/lateral adjusters/etc), having a balance of fit/finish, and doing all of that while making a product that is affordable without them losing money. I appreciate that there are some companies trying to do that, but there will be many failures along the way; Stanley and Record did the same after all. Thanks for the video and I hope you enjoy the weekend 👍
Gosh! I can't remember quite what I said in this one but I know I was a bit cranky!
Reading through your comment there are many things I can identify with. At the end of the day, people can look at a simple craft through any lens, ultimately it's not my business. What I've learned through ranting and more sensible reflection is that it's far more productive for me to focus on sharing information in my own way.
For me woodworking at home is simple recreation 😊
@@faceedgewoodworking I’m catching some older videos here and there that come up in my feed. You do you brother 👍
Love it you hit the nail on the head my apprentice tools were what I could scrounge ,put on grandads account what the other joiners didn't want ,grandad saying was you can only piss with what you got
Thanks Peter. With one positive comment, perhaps this will make sure I don't delete it.
I REALLY like that Millers Falls on the right. It's very sexy. All that being said, I have to agree with you about what you've said. I own mostly old Stanley's that I've bought at flea markets and antique stores. Stores that don't rake me over the coals for the price. I even get a 10-15% discount from the store I generally shop at because I am a frequent customer and I engage with the owner. The whole "WoodRiver/Lie Nielsen camp is great for those who can afford them, but I can buy 3 Stanley 4 1/2s for the price of one Lie Nielsen 4 1/2. Does my Stanley perform better or worse? Well, I had to clean my Stanley up and sharpen the blade, but that's a normal daily thing for a woodworker. I enjoy the work I put into my tools, just as much as the work I get FROM them.
And, yeah, that Millers Falls plane you have on the right is very sexy! :)
Hi Timothy, it sounds like good new Woodworking tools are less expensive on your side of the pond and vintage ones are potentially more?
The Millers Falls is a nice little plane, very rare here. Thanks for sharing your experience 👍
@@faceedgewoodworking No, new ones are quite expensive over here. That's why I was saying I could buy 3 old Stanleys for the cost of 1 Lie Nielsen. In fact, I could probably buy 4 Stanleys.
The cost on the used planes can vary, depending on exactly location, age and condition of course. A nice pre-1945 4 1/2 is over 100USD
Yeah that Millers Falls is definitely nice. I always had a thing for that lever cap. As weird as it is.
@@timothymallon I think our difference might be more acute. A good No.4 1/2 is only about £40 with a Clifton at £300 or more. LN are like hen's teeth right now. It's a shame Veritas went to Norris adjuster on their bench planes.
@@faceedgewoodworking A Clifton 4 1/2 is $404 USD here right now. A Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 is $360 USD. Both at current prices. Not sure how the conversion rate works for UK right now. Your ability to get a good 4 1/2 for 40, may also be partially due to the Made In England models. I can buy a 4 1/2 for $30-40 USD, but here, they're trash at that cost.
@@timothymallon £320 for the Clifton here, LN is £395, both are actually in stock! My Marples shown in my early video was £45 and in stunning condition, the Millers Falls No.4 £41. Hand Tools are plentiful here!
Been reading Chris Schwarz?
There are two angles to this;
In comparison to machines, the hands of a craftsman produce work of greater value that cannot just be measured monetarily. It holds cultural capital the same way a painting does over a print. You can pin a worthwhile philosophy to that.
When honest, skilled work once produced for the everyman was overtaken in efficiency by power tools, jigs and CNC, handmade products were inevitably priced out of the everyman's reach. The issue for me is not that modern hand tool furniture makers sell reproductions for a high price, but bundle with it ideas they are in any way similar to a bodger of old, who manually operated treadle lathes in the forest churning out hundreds of spindles and chair legs a day for an average wage.
I remember an episode of The Woodwright's Shop when Schwarz presented an ebony infill smoother with mother of pearl inlay, and Roy Underhill was quick to poke holes in any notion Chris was operating in the same way as an old modest journeyman. His set of Hollows and Rounds cost £7k.
It's an expensive hobby, from which some will excel to the point they can charge high prices worthy of their name and work.
Hi Hymie
It's one of the reasons I think the Anarchists Tool Chest is a poor book. Others disagree, it's been a success and encouraged many others into the fold. I actually made the chest for fun and then bought the book. Sold the book, kept the chest.
On your first point, I think we would agree. There is a documentary that I will highlight next time and it shows, among other things, a chap who saw the Diana and Minerva Commode and was so in awe started on a journey of learning how to master sand shading, veneering and marquetry. And his results were stunning. I adore that simple motivation to want to elevate yourself and discover skills and knowledge that are unknown to you. That ability of pure craft, I won't just pin something on it. I'll celebrate it!
On your second point, yes. And thank heavens it did happen that way. Also, yes, please don't hide behind thin veneers of hand crafted honesty when all the while you have every contrivance at hand as and when you need it. I see nobody living an authentic handmade life. It's a facade of bullshit.
I have no grievance with success, in fact, be the best you can and if that brings wealth, congratulations! Buy a fabage egg of an infill (by the way it's fundamentally infiror tool for me that a 1960's Stanley), buy a full set of hollows and rounds and never use them! In both instances, his hard work and success allowed him to pay others to make in one instance, couture planes and on the other revive manufacturing of work-a-day planes.
I don't hate the guy, he's given so much back. I just can't stand politics. There was a post he wrote recently where his revelation was that chairs were like a history of oppressors and the people they held down. While there is truth that if you are higher in a higherachy you will have a better chair. The same is true of clothes, food etc. If you get high enough in the pyramid, you might be able to afford to buy one of his chairs!
I digress, thanks for the constructive comment.
Oh boy, a brave topic with politics - very admirable to tackle.
I grew up working class, and I adore the more fancy furniture, but I temper my expectations according to my ability, and according to my finances and time spare. I build my furniture out of pine usually, but I try to make it as fine as I am able to - my little table that lives above the dog's bed isn't the best, but it's all joinery - it doesn't need any glue and can be disassembled and reassembled and it's just for extra space above the dogs bed! I do try to make my woodworking items for friends and family, as fine as I can without it being obsessive and ridiculous. After all, if I try to build a Chippendale Queen Anne High Boy with my cheapy gear and hand tools, it'll take me years - definitely only a project I'd ever make for myself. Got to enjoy the craft and be realistic with yourself and those around you I find.
Sorry for the essay, TL:DR is that I enjoyed the rant and I share your frustrations with people making hobbies political. A hobby is a hobby :) Edit: A profession is a Profession also, didn't mean to exclude the pros!
Looking forward to the second hand advice video.
Thanks! I think your experience is very much like most people. The deal with real high end stuff is that it was made by a team. I'd have to do my research but there were carvers, joiners, upholsterers and more! A lot of them too!
We make what we make because it brings us joy, from a bird house to a bureau 👌
@@faceedgewoodworking A very good point on the team. Nobody was a "woodworker" until fairly recently historically, you were a Jointer, Cabinetmaker, Bodger etc.
I love my little rubbish single dovetail pallet box as much as I do my nice pine table or bookcase. It's the joy in knowing you made something yourself and it'll last (and if it doesn't, you know how to fix it or make another!)
Now all I have to do is recruit my friends and train them up and then we can all build a high boy... and fight to see who keeps it haha
Loved the rant.
It seems embarrassing now 😅. I've tried to be more selective with what I consume these days 😂
To add my two cents, if you don't mind...I've always felt that the one "good" tool a new woodworker should spend money on is a decent quality backsaw. Restoring a vintage saw can be tricky, at least in my experience, and might require some specialty tools that a new woodworker won't have, or even have easy access to. So even if you are planning on eventually restoring vintage saws, starting off with a good quality saw at the least provides a frame of reference for future restoration.
My other recommendation, this coming from an amateur mind you, is to seek out a Stanley #5. I understand that the #4 is more plentiful, and probably more useful to a newbie, but the #5 is quite plentiful, as well. And more importantly, I've never come across one that couldn't be used almost immediately after a quick sharpening. For whatever reasons, the #5's that I've come across have almost always been in remarkably great condition. A new woodworker gets the benefit of seeing a very high quality, functioning tool and feeling how it should handle without spending a half-week's pay....sorry about the rambling comment.
Bill, an excellent point! Yes, unlike a chisel or a Bailey plane, backsaws and indeed saws in general are much more difficult to get right. In this instance, Veritas and Lie-Nielsen offer great value options. This is why I want to make sure I'm not taking a dump on those companies.
And yes, a No.5 is an excellent choice, very easy to set up and very useful for all woodworking tasks. Thanks for the excellent comment.
@@faceedgewoodworking I agree. I have an LN dovetail saw and I think it is an excellent tool, in particular for the money. I have an LN bench plane as well, and I view it like a high-end luxury car: Looks fantastic, handles great, extremely well made, but in the end probably unnecessary. Sadly, I rarely use it...I use the Stanley's that were given to me.
@@williamlattanziobill2475 I think the LN Dovetail saw is exceptional value. They were wise to buy Independence Tools. As you know it has a lovely handle and a proper brass back. In the current world of dovetail saws the LN is close to being budget!
Their planes are superb too, it's just they don't offer the benefit like their saw does. I don't begrudge anyone buying everything high end, and then be told I need that stuff to do good work and go forth and save the dignity of the working man. It's as slippery as snake oil and smells like bullshit.
I saw a documentary series a while ago about various craftsmen from the past. I believe there was Chippendale and Grinling Gibbons ( Amongst others). I remember them saying that Chippendale was making furniture for the upper classes and there was a law basically preventing him from taking these people to court to get them to pay up due their place in society.
Don't apologise for having a rant. I was nodding my head in agreement throughout.
Thanks Johnny, you might have been nodding your head, I was rocking and frothing at the mouth 😂.
I've seen a documentary on Chippendale, but frankly an hour wasn't long enough.
Well meaning rich people thinking they know what’s best with no idea of what it’s like to be skint. Strange how that rings true today.
Thanks Tony, I'm on very thin ice as I'm not clever enough to talk about this stuff. I just found myself pissed off today 😉
@@faceedgewoodworking Mate you’re as clever as anyone. Unfortunately those who like to preach to us peasants aren’t half as clever as they think they are and nowhere near as clever as they want us to think they are. For reasons best left unsaid I think you are far from being alone in feeling pissed off at being the recipient of unwanted sermons on what is right or wrong, in woodwork or any area, from those who never follow their own ill-founded advice and invariably have no real knowledge or experience of the subjects of their sermons.
@@tonyalways7174 You are much more concise than I Sir.
We do not remember the Arts & Crafts movement for their political hypocrisy, but for reminding us how wood should be joined together properly, after 70 years of Victorian garbage. Of course, the economics didn't pass scrutiny, but that is true of all genuine crafts.
Roll forward a century.
Joe Bloggs wants a table & chairs for his house. He might just get a set from the high street for £800-£1000. Nothing fancy, and it seems in line price-wise with his other furniture & appliances. The only way you can get anywhere near this figure is by using cheap materials and mass-production techniques. Nothing at all to do with the craft of woodwork. The only way the craftsman can survive in this marketplace is to sell to the rich with discerning tastes, specific requirements and deep pockets. Even so, the usual range of power tools alongside "proper tools" helps keep the hourly rate down.
The hard-core hand tool craftsman is either non-commercial, or has a wealthy group of patrons.
Just like in the 18th century!
Not all the Victorian work was garbage. For those in the middle classes who were easy prey for marketing, the thin veneers and shoddy processes were the beginning of disposable furniture. But quality was still being made in rural and vernacular styles. Even some of the more elaborate furniture of the Victorian time is of a perfectly good quality.
I remember the Arts & Crafts crew for dreaming that the Middle ages was a golden age and trying to build an idea of utopia while lining their pockets. Genuine craft can pass economic scrutiny, sadly the term "craft' is wooly and open to wistful nonsense.
I very much agree about your final statements. Building a base of patrons with enough clout to support a "dream" is no mean feat. Very much like becoming a fine artist, perhaps even harder? Especially when good quality brown antiques can be bought for less than the wood of a new item.
Each to their own ability. You don't have to make Chippendale furniture. To do it right you need a lot of tools but you can get by with a modest set. The thing is though that when you're starting out no one knows what those few tools are.
That's it Paul, that's what I want to do. Pick a simple project, prepare some drawings and provide a tool list. Give a good place to start.
@@faceedgewoodworking how many planes and chisels does anyone really need? Far less than most of us have. I've thought about it and I could probably get by with 2 planes and 3 chisels. 3 planes and 4 chisels tops.
@@1pcfred Agreed, not many for simple projects. I'm going to enjoy making tool lists to go with the projects.
Hi my friend, sounds like your having a bad day alright, sorry to hear that, it comes to us all now and again, best to get it off your chest and have a rant, it doesn't solve anything but sometimes you feel better for it. Now the arts and crafts movement, as it was with the idle rich dipping their toes in a bohemian lifestyle, which if it failed they could quietly revert to there former sit at home spending money lifestyle, this was far removed from an actual craftsman working to earn a living, I know I was one, and my advice to anyone thinking of being a craft worker, is Don't give up the day job!, as trying to make money from art or craft work is harder than people think, at best it can be a lucrative hobby, at worst you'll loose alot of money. As for being tempted by flashy expensive tools and equipment, it reminds me of an old fisherman's saying, That fancy tackle catches more fishermen than fish, lol, now ain't that the truth. I rember a guy who had a garage full of the best equipment money could by, he also had an armchair, tv, and kettle, and just sat there not making anything, but was happy admiring all that he had, he'd found his kind of peace, at no small expense I might add, and his wife was happy knowing where he was each night. A few words of advice for someone who feels snowed under by life's ups and downs, Don't sweat the small stuff, because it's all small stuff in the end, and just because someone throws you a ball doesn't meet you have to pick it up, that applies to other people's troubles, family notwithstanding. Keep doing it your way, cheers mate, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
Hi Stuart, great comment. It's easy to be preachy when, as you point out, you have a massive safety blanket. I like the aesthetic of William Morris but he was an independently wealthy man who just just felt guilty. On the other hand, George Russell really evolved from that movement, I have a lot of time for his work. I hope to visit his museum one day.
Great quote from the fisherman, another favourite of mine is " When Everybody Is Digging for Gold, It’s Good To Be in the Pick and Shovel Business". I think it applies well to the woodworking scene at the moment.
I'm in a very good place but I this is a topic I've been simmering on for a while. 👍
...not a well-educated person... Formally, maybe, but you have given yourself an education by using tool number 1 (the stuff keeping your ears apart) for gathering information and obviously thinking about said information. And now debating your insights and opinions with us. Far more valuable than a degree in painting by numbers. Keep it up but only use a modest amount of modesty.😉
Thank you. I'm lucky that people seem to have been ok with the rant. I'm lucky that I'm a full time joiner so I do have practical experience. I appreciate you taking the time to comment ☺️