How Scope Creep Killed My Game - Devlog
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- Sometimes, no matter how hard we try, we just can't finish our projects. This is because of our arch enemy, Scope Creep. Today, I'll take you on a devlog through time as we see how my prehistoric, survival game went extinct because of Scope Creep.
┈ Who is Goodgis? ┈
I’m a full time Graphic Designer, Game Dev, & TH-camr. I specialize in making cute, colorful games in Godot and telling my story through my videos. I also run my own little game studio called Firith. My dream is to hire my friends and make Firith a full-time job. I’m known for games such as The Keeyp, Wizbirds, Snomes, and Dewdrop Dynasty.
┈ Ways to Support ┈
💖 Patreon: / goodgis
┈ Join the Community ┈
💬 Discord: / discord
🦆 TWITTER: / gooodgis
┈ My Game Studio ┈
🍁 Website: firith.studio/
🕹️ Itch.io: firith.itch.io/
🐦 Twitter: / firithstudio
┈ Timestamps ┈
Introduction - 0:00
Attempt #1 - 0:39
Attempt #2 - 3:12
Attempt #3 - 4:18
What's Next - 7:21
Conclusion - 8:50
#devlog #scopecreep #gamedev #roblox #indiedev #goodgis #indiegame - เกม
My brother is my method to counter scope creep. When I bounce ideas off him, he's the one that says 'no, here is your core game, this is what you'll stick to, get this done first'
That's what brothers are for! :D My brother does the same thing.
I’m trying to finish a demo for an action rpg and I recently had the “brilliant” idea of adding a cooking mechanic. I’ll definitely be more mindful of scope creep from now on
Oooahh, sounds delicious!
Make someone you know be your project manager, or doubt your choices to make you consider your ambitions and keep them in check.
Most people who don't know the pitfalls will go, "yeah add that, great idea" because well... They are saying that out of consideration.
Keep a tight grip on hype, remember that this is still work.
One possible small work around for scope creep could be updates/DLC get the games basic mechanics all in place only what you need systems wise make sure everything functions then release it and continually update the game with new features you had planned to do this way it can be instead of trying to do it all at once you can split up the work as you release updates like every 1 or 2 weeks release an update for a game like oh here's that cooking update! Or here's a combat update with new weapons and armor a few new special attacks or something just take it relatively slowly
You know whats kinda funny? Ive seen lots of games with cooking mechanics in the past
Most players end up just skipping it entirely if possible and it tends to annoy a big chunk if cooking is necessary
Its always a good thing to question if that cool idea is really going to help your game on the long run
I manage to pull off scope creep with my python scripts haha
when scope creep translates into learning to do art
That too! haha
Very hard for me too because i have no patience and didnt like drawing itslef, i like what it looks like at the end, luckily i like simple designs
BRO YES HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Couldn't have said it any better, I got lost in the process
@@youtubewatcher6124 It is super easy!
One, your game looks awesome. Seeing those dinos break through the rocks in the beginning really sold me in about 5 seconds. Two, it's interesting to see the RTS genre built from the ground up.
Thanks so much! :D
Oh the game looks so lovely, whenever you do finally get back to it I’m sure to hop in to keep up with the devlog :)
Thanks so much! :D
@@Goodgis I agree!
i agree
Creepe😬
I agree. It looks to good not to get finished. If you ever need any beta testers for multiplayer projects like this, i'd love to participate. Anyway, keep up your great work!
There were once three-compartment fluid wagons in Factorio. When Wube saw their UI bugging out, they removed the whole feature and went on to do more important things.
Some people complained, asked if this was a joke, etc. But I think this is a big reason why they are successful where others are not. Same for the old Blizzard, who axed whole game projects on multiple occasions. All complexity is expensive, so you gotta prioritize.
Those are fantastic examples! Thanks for sharing!
How in the hell do you only have 331 subs. One day man you will be huge. Quality of these videos is up there man. keep it up!
I'm just a noobie haha. Thanks for the kind words! :D
@@Goodgis No problem man. I am dead serious. I rarely comment on youtube videos, more of a lurker. But I cannot believe your have so little subs. The games you have made and just as good as any high subbed youtube channel and your videos are on the same level as well. You seriously are going to grow so quick. I cannot wait to watch your journey!
Your voice delivery is solid. Consider me subscribed
I totally thought this was a video from a TH-camr in the 3,000 to 10,000 sub range. It showed up in my Recommended next Wendover Productions and Jonas Tyroller. I think the algorithm is getting better at finding the good stuff!
@@isto_inc Haha thanks!
I wish someone had taught me this a few years ago. I am a very perfectionist person and have fallen into this trap countless times.
It’s hard to avoid!
This has happened to everyone hahah! Whenever I let friends play my game, they think it's amazing and usually don't see all the flaws that I perceive! Another great video my dude! Keep 'em coming!
I know, it's amazing how critical we can be on our own projects. It's the worst! haha Thanks so much.
I have the opposite problem, I’m satisfied with all the progress I make and bugs I fix so I share it with my friends and 5 minutes later they give me a list of 50 game breaking bugs and tell me the game is incredibly boring. Also, no scope creep yet as I’m still working on the actually necessary main mechanics.
now, you know what im going to say... I'd love to see at least a demo of this game. I loved the art, I loved the concept, I loved that the multiplayer worked, I loved everything about it! I would LOVE to see this game in full action, however long it may possibly take.
Stone & Bone will definitely return. ;)
200 Subscribers last October, 16k this March, I can definitely say it's well deserved! Wasn't expecting to hear that figure at the end!
Much appreciated! :D
"game mode"
as a Roblox dev, that hurts.
What technically is it? haha Roblox isn't a game engine?
@@Goodgis it is. The best way to describe it is unity bought off of wish.com
@@YaBoi-jg9zg Ahhh, I got you. I never realized it was basically a game engine.
@@Goodgis think of Roblox as the launcher and publisher that holds the gams made by the game engine
Save your time and go develop somewhere else, you will most likely suffer the same fate as I did for being falsely banned for uploading normal game assets for your game. They don't even care what you are already contributing to their platform or if you are making money or not because their support team is corrupt and unreasonable. Take this from a former dev who has made lots of money off of it only to be tossed away with no reasonable explanation, it just isn't worth it. You also only see less than 30% of the revenue you could make on top of being free labored trying to get into developer exchange to even earn any money.
Not gonna lie, the whole, devlog-indieDev-channel type of thing is becoming a bit of an oversaturated trend at the moment. However, I think your content truly stands above many others I have seen thus far. Please continue to grow and flesh out your channels content as much as you can, because I really enjoyed the videos you have made so far.
Thanks so much! I don't think you realize how much that means to me. Cheers! :D
Agreed :D
Could be because of the algorithm. You’ve watched a few devlog videos and now youtube recommends these kind of videos
@@jar985 yeah this is absolutely the case, I now think, instead of it being an oversaturated trend, what I am really seeing is a lot of stark similarities among this type of content. Not many people I have personally come across try to explore different avenues of portraying their journey into game development and I think this TH-camr is an exception to some degree
"devlog-indieDev-channel type of thing is becoming a bit" i dont agree with you man, this kind of channel is very nice, the problem maaaybe is that the games are a little similar in those channels. however it is very nice to see behind the scenes about every kind of game, at least for some people, that's why it is not saturated at all.
The way u go about telling the story with great editing is PERFECT
Thanks man! I try to makes videos that I would want to watch.
This video is hands down the most relatable and helpful video i've seen in a looong time. Scope Creep has been hunting alot this past few years and even when im kinda aware of it, this video REAALLLLY helps alot to just know that someone else is also having the same problem.
I've been binge watching videos of other indie Devs to try and encourage myself to get back into it. I use to make skyrim mods, but never made a game from scratch. But this weekend I've finally started to learn how unity works! Made some real good progress so far. Haven't watched this whole video yet, but I can relate to what I've seen so far lol
Same thing with watching indie devs! They inspired me to start with boomer shooter i always wanted to make on Doom engine. Its really simple like code is really clean and easy to understand and pretty detailed. It will take an while
Best of luck to you! Game dev is incredibly fun and rewarding. If you ever have any questions feel free to DM me on Discord.
Nice! haha
Game looks awesome, it sounds like the 4th try is gonna be the one that does it! Don't go crazy adding everything in the world, just do what you have to to make the game release able and then add anything that you really want to after the base game is done. You've got what looks like a very fun game that you could release with the maps still being small and it could still gain a following. Then you could update it with bigger maps after it blew up and you got excited about it again.
I think what I need to do is also make the game local multiplayer for now, because the networking is what really messed me up. Like this could be a fun console game.
i got this video in my recommendations and didnt know anything about this kind of stuff so i thought scope creep was some evil guy that ruined people's games for fun
That is fantastic!
me too!
Sameeéeeêèē
P
Awesome video! This is some really helpful advice I wish I would have followed when I started game development.. I still kinda am struggling with scope creep but this video has helped me think about it more! Amazing content, can’t wait to see what you do next.
Glad to hear it! Thanks so much.
It's always great to see someone explain about making a game since I'm planning to start making one soon. Hope you have great success on you game!
Thanks, you too! :D
Managing scope is definitely an important part of gamedev! I found that doing gamejams helps for learning to manage scope, as you are forced by the timescale to do so effectively
I couldn't agree more! Having that deadline just forces you to finish your projects and scale back the extra things.
First up, this channel is criminally ‘under-subbed’. That’ll change though.
But wow, your content is gold. Please keep making this stuff. As someone that’s especially prone to scope-creep, this video really helped solidify the idea of what it would take to finish a game. As for the rest of your channel, time to binge!
Thanks, I appreciate it. My goals is to encourage and inspire others, and have people learn from all of my mistakes. haha
I really enjoy your dev logs. The designs and gameplay is so well done. I'm currently working on my own game on my channel and love to see other channels making games. I'd love to support your channel grow in anyway possible!
Thanks so much! Best of luck with Flamingo Brawl, it looks great.
@@Goodgis Thanks so much! Same to you!
Great Video! Scoping is really hard and even to know what are the strengths - so sometimes it is great even to be in a 2, 3 Person team
So true! A team really helps you stay motivated.
What I learned: Construct exists and I can actually use that without a degree in computer science to make my dumb games
Ayee!
@@Goodgis i have so many ideas once I understood construct
This is inspiring! Good work dude, i'm waiting for this game :)
Thanks so much! :D
I just discovered your channel, and man am I blown away by your videos! Very under-rated , As for your game, honestly I thought it looked great when you were having your friends test it out, it looked fun! Anyways keep up the great content
Thanks so much! It's always surreal for me when people say that, and it means a lot. Cheers!
This is a great video that I'll be sure to keep awareness of. I'm not a game dev yet, but I plan on learning to make games and will occasionally start writing down game ideas, only to keep writing and writing until the small idea I have that doesn't seem like it would take too long turns into "yeah I'll never finish something like *that* this decade..."
Best of luck to you!
I had scope creep with a text based game ,so I can imagine how hard it will be for an actual game
Dang! haha
I've been watching Yahtzee's devlogs (the Zero Punctuation guy) and in pretty much all his videos he kept banging on about focusing on the primary gameplay loop. Now I finally understand what he meant
That’s great advice. If the base game isn’t fun, adding a bunch of junk isn’t going to help. Haha
Thank you for the wonderful advice. It is very helpful in troubling times. Keep on going, this is a good channel.
Thanks so much! :D Glad I could help.
Ohhh, this speaks to me on a deep level. I hope making this video has done you some good, because I get the feeling it's a therapeutic kind of cleansing you needed to do about this project. I can't wait to play it. Also congrats on having such an impressive channel so quickly.
It really has! Thanks so much.
I've had this happen to me in the past! Definitely a tough problem to solve
Yeah, it's definitely a problem with larger projects.
Man, Stone & Bone looked so fun. Would love to play it if it ever comes to be!
Thanks! :D
@@Goodgis i agree man you shoud finish it if you have the chance to
Your videos are so high quality! Really appreciate them :D
Well I appreciate you for appreciating them! Haha
I can relate so heavily to this... Wow you're channel is blowing up! Really great quality videos by the way. Love it!
Thanks so much!! :D
@@Goodgis Keep up the great work and glad I got to find your channel now before you break 100K subscribers in the coming year.
Love the channel! What is the bold font you’re using?
Thanks! It's called Rubik and it's free to download online. (Font Squirrel is great for free high quality fonts.)
make something simple as a demo/test idea, build upon it as you go. Indies don't need to set true deadlines, just add as ye go.
You are absolutely right!
Add deadlines but for yourself,otherwise you just keep adding stuff and never actually finish
Been bitten by the scope creep bug too many times, so I felt this video. This was really well done and it takes guts to admit defeat (albeit temporarily). Thanks for posting it!
Glad it helped! Thanks so much! :D
the game looks so cool I would love to see it competed one day and play it myself!
I love your work and I'll be following your projects from now on
Have a great day and that this year ends up being great!
Thanks so much, I appreciate it! I'll definitely have to finish it at some point!
@@Goodgis even though you burned yourself out/Scope creep got to it you still made more progress then i did on mine lol
This was a really chill video, legitimately enjoyed it. Got a sub from me
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much!
Definitely a great channel here, high quality and quick uploads! Y'all should get in early and subscribe!
Thanks man, you rock!
Omg look how far we've come, you had 200 now you're at 150k+. Congrats man
Super cool vid, off there was a word for all my projects that didn't make it, due to unlimited ideas. SCOPE CREEP. I have started writing/drawing a simple little sketch with keywords, when I get a project idea. This helps me reduce the possibility of that creeping tendency. Thanks again for a great vid.
Hopefully it helps! :D I wish you the best of luck!
if it makes you feel better... I still think the caveman game is a good idea. You're pretty talented and your videos reflect just as much quality. So I'm gonna sub and see where your imagination leads you. My greatest inspiration always comes from knowing I'm making something others will enjoy. So I hope my enjoyment will inspire you to keep advancing.
That really means a lot! :D Thanks so much.
Wow, you use Pyxel Edit. Never seen another person that uses it. Nice! (I like it better, too).
To be honest, I like it much better than Aseprite.
Thank you for making these videos! I am still learning about the Game dev world!
You're very welcome. :D
Really liked your video man!! Loved how your games look
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed.
well, this "scope creep" guy in my head ruined my last 7 years i told you about :D
edit: i forgot to say GREAT VDEO!!!
also there's a typo at 1:24 but the video is so better that people didn't think about it
Thanks! haha Yeahhhh, he's the worst.
I didnt see that typo
Question: why did you use these applications and not unity or unreal engine? Is there anything wrong with them?
For the networking side and also I'm not a big fan of unreal or unity.
@@Goodgis why not a fan?
I ask because I usually roll my own engine or use components (physics engine, sprite engine etc.) but I know unity pretty well, and never understood the appeal of random small engines like Godot/GameMaker. I've tried a couple, they just always seemed restrictive/strange? I dunno.
@@Goodgis totally get it with networking. Also I subbed, this was a good video.
2 days ago, 331 subs, now 1000+ il sub because your quality advise and tone is great.
Haha thank you!
Just subscribed. Really good. Upload your game when it is simple. After that add updates and updates so that the players stay engaged and dont get bored. Updates are one of the best things in games. F. E. you could add more maps, tools, resources, etc. in future updates
That's a great idea! I think the hardest part is just getting the game out, and once you do you can just focus on smaller updates. Thanks for the tip!
Take Scott Cawthon creating fnaf as an example, how a simple game is enough for people to like it
Very true!
Remember me when you make your 100.000 subs special video
I screenshot this comment. If I ever do, this will be in it!
You are so inspirational I made my first game with a lot of scope creep in mind but I saw some other indie dev vids saying the same thing to reduce it as much as possible and make something simple as an individual this makes me think more and reduce the scope creep and work simple but fun on my second one
Thanks so much! Best of luck!
I love this idea! If you have up to four teams per match you could design a starting area that is the same for everyone, then in a central area it could be procedurally generated to give variance for each run.
Also, you could make that central area larger or smaller depending on how many people are on each team. So if there is only one person on a team, it will be smaller than if 3 people are on a team.
It really is a ton of fun, when it worked properly haha
Scope Creep-
Noun: What ruined Yandere Dev
XD
@@Goodgis Tbh it’s kinda sad to see such a promising game go down the drain like that- But I guess it’s also the result of how bad of a person Yandere Dev is.
Hi!! You’re like my favorite game developer and who got me into game developing! I just started using unity and I’m not very good but I’m getting better every day so I wanted to thank you :)
Loved the video! Had me thinking a lot about my own thought process in development.
Thanks! :D
Hey Goodgis, I just discovered your channel a few days ago and I´m really thankfull for that. The way you share your expieriences has something deeply inspiring to me, as an aspiring beginner Game Dev. Besides that your content is just entertaining and informative. Wish you the best and thanks for your efforts to share. :)
Oh and Imho I thought your third attempt sounded like the best one. The two teams against each other, with the dangers of the envoirnment sounded like tension and continous fun. ^^
Ayyye, welcome aboard! Also thanks so much!
@@Goodgis Thanks, much appreciated. Your welcome!
Such a strong start to a channel, lad! Great video, great editing!
Thanks a ton!
Man I have scope creep in most personal projects I do. I didn't realize what it was or how it was affecting me. Not a game dev, but this video was eye opening. It's super easy to get sucked into something and wanting to flesh it out with new concepts when the project isn't ready yet. Also, great video
Super glad to hear this was helpful and best of luck!
This channel is gonna go far if you keep up with these quality videos. Bravo!
Thanks Ross, and thanks for watching!
Wow watching this video 1 year later and seeing you had 200 subs then.. incredible. Congrats! You deserve every sub you have and will have man
Thanks so much! :D
This would be a great game! I think your idea of seeing how many days you can survive is what makes it so great of an idea, I can see a lot of people playing that and trying their hardest to survive the longest. I don't mean to add more to the scope creep but adding a leaderboard of who survived the longest would be fun. But I think keeping it focused on that concept would make it stand out.
That's a sweet idea!
The game looks charming as heck!
Try to make some basic randomization to the map, like sanctionate the map into smaller map modules and randomize/rotate them (aside the starting zone). This could make the game feels aways fresh and cut alot of work.
I was actually thinking about it! Great idea!
This game looks so good looking forward to you finishing it at some point
Thanks so much!
Scrolling youtube @ 5:45 am and I come across this Gem... I'm an aspiring UE4 developer learning all the aspects of the engine and boy let me tell you this is exactly what i needed to hear. Thank you
:D Glad you found me!
This is a video on game development that I didn't know I needed to see till after I watched it! Thankyou.
Haha Glad it helped!
Awesome music mix in the intro! Good luck with the game :)
Thanks, you too!
Hope you finish it soon, we are excited to play it
Thanks!
2 years later and still waiting on more on this. Looks super fun.
200 subscribers a year ago? Nani?! Nice video man, thanks for the tips, I do see the point and I'm trying not to fall in the same pit. Also... I love Godot. Not perfect, but imperfectly perfect.
Same! Also thanks so much. :D
Pretty wise words, and the video editing is incredible too! I wonder if you had experience with videos before, or some people are just natural at it 😀
Thanks so much! I'm actually a graphic designer by trade, so I took a couple video classes in college.
You gave me such an ideia for GMTK game jam (2021)
Thanks for the idea and for the video!
Oh, the ideia you gave was hummm, I can't say, but it's not the game, it's an element inside of it
Go for it!
Dude this is so inspiring and fun , great stuff
Thanks a ton! :D
Amazing video and pixel art :D
Thanks so much! :D
I just came across this video for the first time, I subscribed to your channel! What's absolutely crazy to me is this is the EXACT type of game I dream about building! I thought stone and bone was well made! I would love to help in any way possible. I don't know much about game development, but I have passion! Even if I can help play the game with you and give you some ideas 💡
I play a lot of ark survival evolved, and have played a lot of age of empires, clash of clans etc....
I too believe that if these ideas were all combined into one game, it would do EXTREMELY WELL!
That's awesome!
OH, and the game on a small map seems really fun. Good luck finishing it!
Thanks so much!
From 331 subs to 11.400 in 3 month! Whatever you do, keep it up!
Thanks so much! :D
I'm subscribing, I don't know why but I love so much your videos.
Also very nice music
Thanks for subbing! :D
Super awesome and well edited video!! This is why I made my first devlog game a 2d platformer haha. Coming to Steam soon :D
Thanks! Yeah, that's smart.
That's neat
I wonder why you don’t have 100k yet 🤔 You definitely deserve it!!
Wow, thank you! I'm working on it. :D
It reminds me of that IO game and that minecraft wither base minigame. The initial idea is actually really good, it'd be nice to see it realized into a proper game
I definitely should make this a complete game! :D
Never thought that growing a scope would kill a game thank you for the info keep it simple finish the game and then grow the scope
The scope creeping problem and KISS principle are really core regards software development. People who show real intelligence are those who can go above their ego/dreams and see their own limitations. Wish you a great luck and success with your projects!
Great advice, thanks for sharing!
Great video man!
Appreciate it!
The base idea reminds me bit to team buddies ps1
I watched this because i feel like it could relate to me, i get constantly inspired, what would fit to the game and its concept but did not even start with the prototype, it is already from the base way too much for me to handle, as the last game I worked on was a text adventure game in school.. so my approach now is to make prototypes of the concepts I want in the fame, to gain experience enough, not to fail because of scope creep.
I also want to add, I like your pixel art
That game looks sweet! Thanks so much!
There is an old saying 'keep it simple, stupid' and I think you may benefit from printing this out and sticking it somewhere you can see it while working on your games. Loved the video, and really beneficial as I have literally just started developing a game (at 55 yrs old).
Good advice, and keep up the good work 😊👍
Thanks for sharing!
First of all, Stone & Bone is extremely polished for a game stuck in development hell. I think the next time will actually be the charm.
I wanted to ask, since you mentioned it: what's your opinion on multiple projects? I'm working on something that's bigger than what I've done before, while exploring other ideas/prototypes/experiments, but it's generally frowned upon by the community. Still, I find it keeps me on my toes, helps me learn new things and keeps me from burning out.
To be honest, I do multiple projects all the time. It helps me clear my mind and feel fresh when I get back to my main project. :D
Yo, the professionality of this video, and you only had 200 subs at the time? Dang
I subbed, just so I could get news of this here stone and bone game, it looks like a ton of fun! Reminds me a lot of Starve.io actually, at least, it would have if you went the "every man for himself, but can make teams: route. I wish you luck in your creation!
Thanks so much! :D
its very interesting to me how this concept also applies to the creation of comicbooks
This video helped me keep the game i'm making grounded to avoid falling into the trap of going beyond what i'm capable of doing. A way to avoid the temptation to add features is to "save these ideas for a sequel". If the game succeeds with a scope you can manage, you can afford to make a sequel with some of the improvements you have in mind.
Hi i really liked The huge trex coming out at night, it seemed at the time like some warcraft 3 map with werewolves. Good work keep it up, remember people will find new mechanics all you have to do is to test it
Thanks, will do!
"Channel Just reached 200 subs"
damn, you really blew up in the last two years, that's awesome!
:D
I really like the finished art still in this game. Good luck with it.
Thanks so much, I would love to finish this!
07:43 so true man!. love your videos ! keep it up:)
Thanks so much! :D
I've never truly been an artist until I joined my first game jam and made sprites for it. Sprites are fun to make for me, animations and all but Tilesets are something that isn't clicking as well yet.
That's awesome!
Well, that's kinda unexpected. I don't really get why it is like this, but. In my humble opinion - this is the best video I ever watched that points how you can actually fail and gives simple and yet straightforward and easy to understand and imagine way how to not make this mistake. I don't know how, I don't know why, but this video just clicked. So many times I've heard the same but it never really got I'm my mind. Now it is. Let me just givemy thanks to you. I finally really got it. Thanks.
I’m glad this helped! :D thanks so much!
Dude I’ve been watching your videos since you first posted on Reddit and you’re absolutely great! I mostly make my games on Construct. Do you think it’d be possible for you to make a tutorial series on the multiplayer plugin or procedural generation on Construct?
Thanks so much! I would love to make a little tutorial series. I noticed a lot of people are curious about the multiplayer. Cheers!