From early on in my guitar and amp playing, I quickly realised the different sounds produced by different speakers, and how much a high quality speaker can make a difference in tone. Only very recently did I learn how different cabs can affect the sound so much. Johan, your videos are so informative, thank you! Also, your neighbours must be very forgiving!
This is probably my favourite channel on youtube... and just discovered it a while ago! Great stuff, it's all about that Marshall and Gibo tone! Love your work, Johan! Keep it up!
You dont seem to run out of great ideas for vids, thanks for another awesome vid. Im suprised that not every single Marshall loving guitarist is subscribed to your channel, you deserve way more views!!!
In the 80's I recieved many compliments on my sound. I used a bi-amp/bi-cab sound - Marshall head with "slant cab" and a ampeg head, separate reverb tank into a marshall "flat cab". It was incredible. (reverb was barely on and I used a stereo boss DD-2 straight to the slant and delay to flat)
Very interesting & nice vid again! What does this mean regarding the best pattern two mix two speaker types in a slant cab? Best to pair on the bottom and top or to use an x-pattern? For example I have a new 1960A with G12T-75s and a pair of G12-35XCs I want to include. Should these go in the top or bottom, or as an x-pattern? And would the 35XCs sound better paired with a pair of V30s instead of the G12T-75s? Any recommendations or demos you could put together? Thanks.
Thanks, the 35XC is louder than the 75 (100dB Vs 97dB sensitivity) so if you're not using an X pattern, put the 75s on top. If you pair the 35XC with V30, put the 35XCs on top since V30 has a very strong high mid. It's hard to say how speakers should be combined to get pleasing interactions inside the box. Maybe use some clip on cables to try some combinations before you choose. But the combinations you mention could probably all sound good. Cheers! Johan
Johan, this was an excellent vid! I looked up slant vs straight cabs (because I've seen stacks with straight/slant, and straight/straight), and wondered if the difference could matter. I definitely hear the difference, thanks for making this video. 🎸 🎛️🔊🔊
Nothing beats doing it, thanks!' Tilting part of the baffle does change the internal volume and reflection and cancellation inside the cab, remembering that paper cones are transparent to lower freqs. They will pass through the cone essentially unimpeded. What is happening outside the cabinet changes dramatically too. Any change of the distance between the cones will result in a different spread of comb filtering. Physics says that a perfect audio speaker is a point source that can generate all frequencies equally. Not a thing we can make yet. Regardless satisfying guitar tone depends on pleasing distortion, even for "clean"sounds. I suggest if one wanted to hear what the difference in cabinet shape and volume is it would be better to adjust the back panel and thus negate the outside the box effects. Or not. ;)
You 'should' have one of each. That''s what I told my ol' lady, and she keeps asking why I have five cabinets now. "Because dear, they sound so very much different from one another, and I really 'NEED' them for the 'proper' application. So go get yourself ready and I'll take you out for dinner!" Usually after dinner out, she doesn't ask questions about the amount of gear stacking up. Trust me, NEVER EVER ask why 'she' has so many clothes or shoes etc. That's the 'cardinal sin' of the century for you, and you just might have to give up some gear and buy her some clothes AND dinner.
That's why I have 17 guitars and counting (that's what I've told my wife, but she's starting to doubt my wisdom....) Johan, I believe we need to bestow a new title on you, "Professor of Tone, Dr. of Marshall-ology." Love, love, love your videos! They are so educational and so much fun to listen to at the same time. Now, back to shopping for that next guitar or amp...... ;-)
I can’t believe just how different they sound! I can totally see what you mean about the mids taking over! I definitely need to switch up for a straight!!!!
WONDERFUL explanation! I have an old sonic 4X12 celestion, and, i HAVE noticed that low end can be muddied by middle, so, i usually turn my middle down to use for heavy metal tones; ultimate would be to have 3 different 2 X 12 cabs, one straight in the middle for some bass punch, and, one slant on both sides for that full sound effect...
First, thanks so much for the effort. This topic has haunted me for years now and your research is really informative. Now I can reintegrate myself to the society as a normal human being...
Hey, Johan! Amazon demo that really illustrates the differences in the cabs! I had a question - I’m currently looking into getting a 212 cab and was looking into either a Mojotone or Sourmash clone of the Marshall 2061cx. Their cabs are slightly larger than the Marshall. The Mojotone is 26”w x 27”h x 14”d (660mm x 686mm x 356mm) with approximately 2.84 cubic feet per speaker. The Sourmash is 26”w x 27”h x 12”d (660mm x 686mm x 305mm) with approximately 2.44 cubic feet per speaker). I wanted to ask in your experience if I would be better off going with the deeper cab as opposed to the shallower cab? I would like a full bass without it sounding too dark or woofy. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Cheers 🤘🏽
Prefer straight cabs just from hearing the comparison in this video. I can see now why Paul Kossoff only used straight cabs also. He claimed they had more girth and a fuller rounder tone, which I definitely hear here.
Talking about sound waves, I've seen some interesting open back designs on 4x12 cabs. Maybe you should also consider making a comparison. Usually the cut in the back is around the 2 lower speakers, this way the back of the cabinet stays in contact at the top, to avoid noise cancellation issues. Interesting video, thank you !
I always wondered how Yes got the guitar tone on Owner of a Lonely Heart... Not having researched it, perhaps it has something to do with the amplifier type... That could be probable... Thoughts?
Great work as always, Johan. Which one do you personally prefere - slant or straight? Is there a remarcable diferrence in order to hear the cab when used as halfstack standing on the ground - I mean does the angled speakers make that much difference when standing in front of the cab?
Thanks man, I prefer slant for solos and straight for rhythms. In a small rehersal space a slant cab is preferable to hear yourself without killing the rest of the guys ;-)
Wow, I would never have guessed such a different sound. I had always imagined the slant was to disperse the sound more broadly to an audience, but never would have imagined such a difference with close mic. Thanks for posting. I love Marshall 412 cabs, but I have noticed mine, even the slant cabs are really directional when not using mics. I always realize the guy in the fourth row at the end of the isle (the one my cab is aimed at) is getting more than his share of sound. LOL>..... Hopefully a guitar enthusiast. Thanks for posting Johan, I always learn from your vids.
Just something worth noting. On my new EVH 4x12 cabinet, it is a straight cab design....sort of. The whole baffle where the speakers mount is slightly leaned upward. So going by Johan’s illustrations on how the sound waves hit the back of the cabinet, the design of my cabinet makes the sound waves not hit the back of the cab square like in a straight cabinet. It appears it would almost hit the back like a slant cabs top speakers. Just not at as extreme of a degree. So it seems they did this to get the best of both a straight and slant cab. Cool idea.
I remember watching another yourtuber mention the same thing, can't remember who for the life of me... but they mentioned that with the angled cab the waves coming back at the speaker is different than a straight cab so that, in turn, produces a different tone. I personally always prefered straight cab's but this is always cool info! Thx Johan!
First, keep up the great work Johann. Secondly, this is like picking your favorite photo of Marilyn Monroe, there is no loser. Personally, I’ve found a relatively diy solution to the dilemma of slant vs straight. I raise my 1960B off the ground about 18” with a small crate or platform. This allows a broader spread from the lower speakers before the sound bounces off the floor and adds a bit of clarity to the deep rich sound of that cubic cab. To top things off, I added a single “tilt a speaker” to the top speaker, most center to the audience. This provides me with a “monitor” speaker to hear my tone above my knees and still have 3 speakers forming a death day of beautiful SG thunder upon the audience. I wonder how a straight 2x12 cab, with a slanted 2x12 on top might sound. Would this provide that gorgeous full stack blend, in a smaller compact setup?
Man. Your videos are the best!!! I love the tone. Tell me. For leads do you run the mids and bass at 12:00 and the treble full?? Fantastic old marshals and wicked pulsonics. Hard combo to beat. Regards. Dan
Thanks Dan, I usually go with 0 Bass, 10 mid treble and prescence and 8 volume, but sometimes I may need to back off on the treble and prescence to get ok definition. This very bright sound needs basketweave grill cloth to filter out some highs. Cheers
Would it not be very easy to break the reflections in the cab with, in the same time, stabilzing the whole cab back section (I speak about newer models ? I speak about glueing two diffractor rods on the inside of the cabinet's back. Stabilizing the back and breaking the straight waves. The only problem I could see would come from the Thiele factor ; but there should be more than enough m3 to insure good sound results.
Max Crozon The slant cab is more compressed to my ears. BTW it's slightly smaller size would result in less headroom, which is why the midrange is more focused. The straight cab may seem more compressed because it's louder, but I prefer the slant cab anyways.
Skillnaden påverkas ju förutom reflektionerna inne i lådan även på hur väl inspelad högtalaren är och tydligen enligt Laney vilket material man har på lådan som grillcloth eller metall galler.
I wonder if different slant cabs with different dimensions would have slightly different frequency damping, based on how far the sound waves are traveling before they interfere with the other speakers.
With celestion, the problem is they don't sound the same, sometime a lot ! Try same mic position on different speakers and you will see ! So to do it right, you should use always the same speaker and place it in both cabs ! Can go crazy but that what I do !
+Jose Sanchez Yeah, indeed for an exhaustive test that's whats required, but I have Trieste compensate for that by using 2 cabs of each here to identify general tendencies. And I think the A and B cabs here correlate
Never realized there was that much difference. I am about to order two new cabs and was going to go with the A's but after hearing how much fatter and sparkly the B's sound I may go with them.
I just love definition in the high frequencies, there's a lot of people that just hate it, calling it fizzy… etc, but i'm crazy about it I can't help that ! It sounds a bit like if you had mixed DI distorted signal with the miced cabinet together to get some kind of full range tone. Those old greenbacks are gold.
Hey Johan, we play current hard rock, not quite metal but radio hard rock (mix of 90's and current heavy with a few balladish ones). I have both slant and straight cabs but selling one and recording soon, which would best to sell as I only need 1 from now on?
+OverKast Have you sold it yet? On second thoughts I'd keep the Straight cab also for modern metal. But they're very close for that application. Cheers
Johan Segeborn no not yet. I have the straight cab and my 2nd head up for sale now. the slant has always worked for our 90s/2000s hard rock so I stripped all the band logos off the slant and have it up on sites
Interesting, I've had different results with my old cabs. I used to have Mills Acoustics Afterburner 4x12, Orange ppc412 both straight front and still have my old oversized peavy angled front 4x12. Tried exact same speakers in each cab, same wire etc. I did how ever scoop most of mids out, dialed in for more lower mid eq and treble is on max as I use a very dark V1 Preamp tube and use .47 tone cap. My results were angled cab sounder bigger with much larger soundstage, more alive, cut thru mix better, louder and more high end and only slightly less very low frequency bass. Though the angled cab kinda dwarfs even oversized cabs in some regards to the point I had to use it as the base of a full stack instead of the top because it was too big. Maybe that had bigger effect vs smaller standard marshall cabs.
Yeah, it certainly depends on what the in signal is. And the woods/grillcloths/dimensions of your three brands of cabs are big factors as well. Cheers Johan
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned but the kink in the front baffle of the slant cabinet will probably make that area much stiffer than the flat one piece front baffle of the non slant cab. This will hold the speakers more firmly.
Johan Segeborn If the joint is properly put together then the angle should make the baffle stiffer than a flat one.....if! This method of stiffening is used in engineering all the time and Italian mandolin soundboards are made stiffer by having a kink but it does depend on a good joint!! Try flexing the middle of the two front baffles to see!
When I put some pyramidfoam (or some other sound deadening material) on the back wall of my slant cab, which reduces the reflection of soundwaves inside the box, do you think a slant cab might sound more like a straight? But with different emission characteristics outside the box?
+mreyeballz Interesting.. I'm gonna try that too. Thanks for the tip. Yeah I think it will loose some mids and sound closer to the straight cab. Cheers
Here is your quote: "To my ears slant cabs have more mids, less highs and lows, less attack and is easier to play."What do you mean "Easier to play"?. Which cab do you prefer? Thanks VP
Greetings, If speakers were so amazingly perfect then we'd just suspend them in the air on springs. We don't do that because a speaker without a box sounds absolutely terrible. Try it if you do not believe me. With that said, the 4 speakers are very much meant to interact with one another. First, there are 4 speakers because it isn't really possible to put a 21" speaker in the cabinet and call it good. The 4 speakers provide the necessary surface area to provide low end even though the cabinet is sealed and not ported. That the cabinet is sealed means that the box has a natural dampening (compression) in that anything that really wants to move that speaker is going to meet some resistance from that chamber. Finally, to produce low end you need a big box. That is the reason a cello is bigger than a violin and a stand up bass is bigger than a cello. If you want low end then you must have a big spacious box. Not only that, I want the entire cabinet to vibrate with the fundamental frequency somewhere near my low E so that when I get on it the entire room shakes with my box. Oh yeah, those reflections inside the box are what make the guitar sound like a living vibrating instrument and not some lame keyboard.
Wow! Also beautiful paul.if i ever get a cab i guess it'll be a straight.which i whould have gone with a slant just caz they look coolera and i like standong right in front of my speakers. I use two combos and the stand i built is on the slant.
From my experience with Marshall slant vs straight, was that the straight sounded “looser” with a better balanced bass. Angle cabs, to my ears, have a bit more edgy and pronounced mid range. Great video!
+Charles Von kanel It works great, it has EQ compensation that works great for Marshalls. I use Hot Plate and Weber Mass 100 with my amps. The Weber is a bit more transparent to me.
I say slant is the "better" one overall, especially when you're considering the audience's ears and where they're probably standing. The way the speakers mesh because the sound goes in two different directions makes the difference. It's more "husky" and guitar-y (lack of a better word?). If you're standing directly in front of a slant cab--facing it--it's not immediately pleasant like straight cabs. They lack the same deep low-end and are really mid forward and thin. However, once you step back from it or sit down a few feet away (as though you're in the audience), you get a true feeling for the sound slants make. Like I said, it's huskier. I learned this about my Soldano slant 412. I originally hated how it sounded in person and realized that it's the nature of slant cabs to be super middy like that if you're standing up really close to it. You gotta move back on slants to really hear them.
Beside the sounds , what is the difference for the price tag ? Which one is the most expansive and harder to find ? A slant or a straight one ? Thanks for the explanations Johan :)
I know this is an old video, but what equipment did you use here to play with such an credible tone at low volumes. You’re not even wearing your headphones. I’d really like to know because I am thinking about getting an attunator and this video is what I’m going for soundwise
@@randolphcarlisle2976 Thanks man, really appreciate it. I actually found out myself and managed to get one in almost perfect condition for only 130€ My Amp has never sounded better tbh Have a good one:) 🤘
Hey Johan, You can't do a good demo because you are micing the same 12" speaker on all of them in the same place. You would have to set up a mic about 12 inches higher than the Marshall logo on the cab and put the mic at least 6-8 foot away from the cabs. That way you would be able to tell from an audience perspective on how much is gained or lost from a straight or slant cabinet. You know what I mean? We already know that if you only use an angled 4x12 cab and you stand in front of it while you play your guitar you will hear the sound easier because it is working similar to a monitor, but if you use a 4x12 cab on stage , you might not hear it as well because all of the speakers are facing forward. I'd like to hear a demo from you set up the way I mentioned it in the 2nd sentence. That way we all would get a really good idea how much sound is lost or gained by angled vs straight. I personally like the Straight cab myself. Whether I'm sitting or standing.
I think the B cabs sounded better in all but one of the scenarios illustrated in this video but I prefer playing through an A/B deuce! I would typically mic the bottom cab(s).
Ahhh, just a thought. 4X12's are so directional I was thinking some of the tonal variation may have been coming from the room mic. If its not in the same location relative to the speaker cabinet in the room then it can sound very different. I'm a recording engineer for many years and have encountered this.
I build cabs: the main point is inside volume that are not equal, the slanted as less volume and so bass responce is shifted up a bit. That's why metal player like Mesa Oversized: more volume, lower bass responce, to much may lead to floppy bass.The other point is that speaker cone is transparent to sound reflected inside, but this is another story and one of my secrect to make my cabs sound huge.
If you place your mic in the upper speakers of the slanted cab then in the lower one, you will notice less mids in up position, so yes the angle is important but less than the volume in this case.
First, as always--tack så mycket...nej...tusen tack!--to Johan for sharing his awesome "research" with the world! Second, it occurs to me in those diagrams, that the red waves coming down from the "top" (back) corner, well, they're coming "up" from the bottom (back) corner as well, right? So I'm thinking there's something more...*equalized*...(not quite the word I'm after), but perhaps more "evenness"(?) about the cancellation/attenuation/augmentation of the frequencies/overall frequency response with the straight-type. Not as "lively" as the slant-type; the straights are a bit darker, but more balanced or something... =)
Thanks Johan! I have a '70-'71 red tolex B cab (w/ the stock "Thames Ditton Surrey" G12H's)--so yeah, I'm a bit biased there... :D Nonetheless, your impressive reference demonstration of the two types is very edifying, as always!
This guy blew all his money on his cab collection and then saved money on the mic stand! Balancing it on some old books... 😂 dude the mic positioning is so crucial! Anyway. Love your videos. Good stuff
I was always told the 1960 B cab was more desirable than the A cab and had more "rock" tone to it, but I never separated my stack to find out. This demo.- "if correct" -certainly challenges the info I was told.
+wydeglyde00 The B-cabs have received a certain status since they are so much more rare compared to A-cabs. I think the sound of the A-cabs are more commonly occuring on classic records. The B-cabs sounds more aggressive though.
+Marlon Ibarra That depends on the application, but I think more classic rock albums have been recorded with slant cabs. And Straight cabs sounds more hardrock. They have a more pronounced and cutting lower mid. Cheers
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From early on in my guitar and amp playing, I quickly realised the different sounds produced by different speakers, and how much a high quality speaker can make a difference in tone. Only very recently did I learn how different cabs can affect the sound so much. Johan, your videos are so informative, thank you!
Also, your neighbours must be very forgiving!
+Alastair Tilley Thanks man, yeah the cab and he speaker is the acoustical instrument.
Three 4x12's in the room, that's just fantastic!
:-) a bit bulky I have been told here at home though :-)
at the back its a 4x15
This is probably my favourite channel on youtube... and just discovered it a while ago!
Great stuff, it's all about that Marshall and Gibo tone! Love your work, Johan! Keep it up!
Thanks! Glad to hear that! :-) Cheers Johan
Great demo Johan. Very interesting to hear that there's that much difference. Thanks for the post.
Thanks John!
You dont seem to run out of great ideas for vids, thanks for another awesome vid. Im suprised that not every single Marshall loving guitarist is subscribed to your channel, you deserve way more views!!!
Right it blows my mind hes only got around 70k subs he should have millions. No other gear channel comes close
Excellent stuff! I never thought there would be such a huge difference! I have the slanted 1960AV and the sound is just excellent!
+Notjo King Thanks! Yeah it has a great influence indeed
Super! Finally a good demo about cabinets.
Thanks a lot
In the 80's I recieved many compliments on my sound. I used a bi-amp/bi-cab sound - Marshall head with "slant cab" and a ampeg head, separate reverb tank into a marshall "flat cab". It was incredible. (reverb was barely on and I used a stereo boss DD-2 straight to the slant and delay to flat)
personally prefer the slant cabs, sound less harsh and a tad more musical to my ears , cheers for another great video johan!
I love your videos. And your neighbors are either very patient or on vacation!
this my friends, is why you get a stack
Very interesting & nice vid again!
What does this mean regarding the best pattern two mix two speaker types in a slant cab? Best to pair on the bottom and top or to use an x-pattern?
For example I have a new 1960A with G12T-75s and a pair of G12-35XCs I want to include. Should these go in the top or bottom, or as an x-pattern? And would the 35XCs sound better paired with a pair of V30s instead of the G12T-75s?
Any recommendations or demos you could put together?
Thanks.
Thanks, the 35XC is louder than the 75 (100dB Vs 97dB sensitivity) so if you're not using an X pattern, put the 75s on top. If you pair the 35XC with V30, put the 35XCs on top since V30 has a very strong high mid.
It's hard to say how speakers should be combined to get pleasing interactions inside the box. Maybe use some clip on cables to try some combinations before you choose. But the combinations you mention could probably all sound good.
Cheers!
Johan
Johan, this was an excellent vid! I looked up slant vs straight cabs (because I've seen stacks with straight/slant, and straight/straight), and wondered if the difference could matter. I definitely hear the difference, thanks for making this video. 🎸 🎛️🔊🔊
I tried to pick a favorite cab. It's no use. I will buy both ! Thanks Johan ! : )
They complement each other very well. Cheers man!
Nothing beats doing it, thanks!'
Tilting part of the baffle does change the internal volume and reflection and cancellation inside the cab, remembering that paper cones are transparent to lower freqs. They will pass through the cone essentially unimpeded. What is happening outside the cabinet changes dramatically too. Any change of the distance between the cones will result in a different spread of comb filtering.
Physics says that a perfect audio speaker is a point source that can generate all frequencies equally. Not a thing we can make yet. Regardless satisfying guitar tone depends on pleasing distortion, even for "clean"sounds.
I suggest if one wanted to hear what the difference in cabinet shape and volume is it would be better to adjust the back panel and thus negate the outside the box effects. Or not. ;)
You 'should' have one of each. That''s what I told my ol' lady, and she keeps asking why I have five cabinets now. "Because dear, they sound so very much different from one another, and I really 'NEED' them for the 'proper' application. So go get yourself ready and I'll take you out for dinner!" Usually after dinner out, she doesn't ask questions about the amount of gear stacking up. Trust me, NEVER EVER ask why 'she' has so many clothes or shoes etc. That's the 'cardinal sin' of the century for you, and you just might have to give up some gear and buy her some clothes AND dinner.
+Viking Mike hahaha words of wisdom
That's why I have 17 guitars and counting (that's what I've told my wife, but she's starting to doubt my wisdom....) Johan, I believe we need to bestow a new title on you, "Professor of Tone, Dr. of Marshall-ology." Love, love, love your videos! They are so educational and so much fun to listen to at the same time. Now, back to shopping for that next guitar or amp...... ;-)
So the wife said "You can hear the difference in tone of 5 different cabs but you cannot hear me calling you from the kitchen?"
old joke
Viking Mike Never give up gear unless it's going to make room for new gear
Yeah I wouldn't even entertain the thought of having a woman in my home besides my daughter and the sister of our set of orange cats.
Slant gives more open sound . Thank you , Johan !
I was really expecting an explanation of how the mids of the slant obscure the bass. Love your explanations Johan.
+ArrogantOwl Thanks :-)
Thank you Johan, you're a gentleman and a scholar.
I can’t believe just how different they sound! I can totally see what you mean about the mids taking over! I definitely need to switch up for a straight!!!!
WONDERFUL explanation! I have an old sonic 4X12 celestion, and, i HAVE noticed that low end can be muddied by middle, so, i usually turn my middle down to use for heavy metal tones; ultimate would be to have 3 different 2 X 12 cabs, one straight in the middle for some bass punch, and, one slant on both sides for that full sound effect...
The difference is astonishing and profound. Very interesting J.
Thanks man
First, thanks so much for the effort.
This topic has haunted me for years now and your research is really informative.
Now I can reintegrate myself to the society as a normal human being...
Thanks my friend, that's good to hear. :-) I'm still waiting for my reintegration ;-)
NEVAR!
Fascinating, as usual Johan!
Hey, Johan! Amazon demo that really illustrates the differences in the cabs! I had a question - I’m currently looking into getting a 212 cab and was looking into either a Mojotone or Sourmash clone of the Marshall 2061cx. Their cabs are slightly larger than the Marshall. The Mojotone is 26”w x 27”h x 14”d (660mm x 686mm x 356mm) with approximately 2.84 cubic feet per speaker. The Sourmash is 26”w x 27”h x 12”d (660mm x 686mm x 305mm) with approximately 2.44 cubic feet per speaker). I wanted to ask in your experience if I would be better off going with the deeper cab as opposed to the shallower cab? I would like a full bass without it sounding too dark or woofy. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Cheers 🤘🏽
Prefer straight cabs just from hearing the comparison in this video. I can see now why Paul Kossoff only used straight cabs also. He claimed they had more girth and a fuller rounder tone, which I definitely hear here.
Yes, sir.
Talking about sound waves, I've seen some interesting open back designs on 4x12 cabs.
Maybe you should also consider making a comparison. Usually the cut in the back is around the 2 lower speakers, this way the back of the cabinet stays in contact at the top, to avoid noise cancellation issues.
Interesting video, thank you !
+Bluescobra Thanks, that's a good idea. I will definetly do that
I always wondered how Yes got the guitar tone on Owner of a Lonely Heart... Not having researched it, perhaps it has something to do with the amplifier type... That could be probable... Thoughts?
Great work as always, Johan.
Which one do you personally prefere - slant or straight?
Is there a remarcable diferrence in order to hear the cab when used as halfstack standing on the ground - I mean does the angled speakers make that much difference when standing in front of the cab?
Thanks man, I prefer slant for solos and straight for rhythms. In a small rehersal space a slant cab is preferable to hear yourself without killing the rest of the guys ;-)
Wow, I would never have guessed such a different sound. I had always imagined the slant was to disperse the sound more broadly to an audience, but never would have imagined such a difference with close mic. Thanks for posting. I love Marshall 412 cabs, but I have noticed mine, even the slant cabs are really directional when not using mics. I always realize the guy in the fourth row at the end of the isle (the one my cab is aimed at) is getting more than his share of sound. LOL>..... Hopefully a guitar enthusiast. Thanks for posting Johan, I always learn from your vids.
+THUNDERWORX Thanks man, glad to hear it
Just something worth noting. On my new EVH 4x12 cabinet, it is a straight cab design....sort of. The whole baffle where the speakers mount is slightly leaned upward. So going by Johan’s illustrations on how the sound waves hit the back of the cabinet, the design of my cabinet makes the sound waves not hit the back of the cab square like in a straight cabinet. It appears it would almost hit the back like a slant cabs top speakers. Just not at as extreme of a degree. So it seems they did this to get the best of both a straight and slant cab. Cool idea.
nice comparison Johan. loved the video man.
Thanks man, Cheers!
Now I know why I need both!😅 thanks!
Question is when you buy your first Marshal Cabinet, should you buy the slant or the straight first then decide to build it up?
This is a great video. Mad props, question I have if you get around to it. On the matching straight and slant cabs, were you runing the same speakers?
I remember watching another yourtuber mention the same thing, can't remember who for the life of me... but they mentioned that with the angled cab the waves coming back at the speaker is different than a straight cab so that, in turn, produces a different tone. I personally always prefered straight cab's but this is always cool info! Thx Johan!
Thanks Joey!
First, keep up the great work Johann. Secondly, this is like picking your favorite photo of Marilyn Monroe, there is no loser. Personally, I’ve found a relatively diy solution to the dilemma of slant vs straight. I raise my 1960B off the ground about 18” with a small crate or platform. This allows a broader spread from the lower speakers before the sound bounces off the floor and adds a bit of clarity to the deep rich sound of that cubic cab. To top things off, I added a single “tilt a speaker” to the top speaker, most center to the audience. This provides me with a “monitor” speaker to hear my tone above my knees and still have 3 speakers forming a death day of beautiful SG thunder upon the audience. I wonder how a straight 2x12 cab, with a slanted 2x12 on top might sound. Would this provide that gorgeous full stack blend, in a smaller compact setup?
Man. Your videos are the best!!! I love the tone. Tell me. For leads do you run the mids and bass at 12:00 and the treble full?? Fantastic old marshals and wicked pulsonics. Hard combo to beat. Regards. Dan
Thanks Dan, I usually go with 0 Bass, 10 mid treble and prescence and 8 volume, but sometimes I may need to back off on the treble and prescence to get ok definition. This very bright sound needs basketweave grill cloth to filter out some highs. Cheers
Love the old Kiss licks.
+HellBent Cheers! :-)
pretty good video.. love marshalls and les pauls
+Christian Marchan Thanks Christian!
Would it not be very easy to break the reflections in the cab with, in the same time, stabilzing the whole cab back section (I speak about newer models ?
I speak about glueing two diffractor rods on the inside of the cabinet's back. Stabilizing the back and breaking the straight waves. The only problem I could see would come from the Thiele factor ; but there should be more than enough m3 to insure good sound results.
+Bob Outélama That's an interesting idea. I'm gonna try that. Cheers Johan
Slant Cab sounds better to my ears. I was surprised at the difference.
+Alan Deniston Thanks Alan, me too to be honest. cheers Johan
Less compressed. So better (to my ears), you're both right!
Max Crozon The slant cab is more compressed to my ears. BTW it's slightly smaller size would result in less headroom, which is why the midrange is more focused. The straight cab may seem more compressed because it's louder, but I prefer the slant cab anyways.
Do you have a video between a small 1960 cab vs a "Vintage" bigger cab?
very informative, thank you!
isnt it that by that slant, a little bit of phasing accures witch results in a more midish tone?
+jan de man yeah phase cancellation working in our favor for a change ;-)
What amp are you using in this video, a Plexi or a master volume?
Skillnaden påverkas ju förutom reflektionerna inne i lådan även på hur väl inspelad högtalaren är och tydligen enligt Laney vilket material man har på lådan som grillcloth eller metall galler.
Det stämmer, det är väldigt svårt att jämföra två parametrar när det är så mycket annat som jan variera
I wonder if different slant cabs with different dimensions would have slightly different frequency damping, based on how far the sound waves are traveling before they interfere with the other speakers.
+Scott Rawdon That would be interesting topic for a new video. I guess they would. Cheers Johan
Is that a DiMarzio Super Distortion bridge pickup? Sounds great.
Such an awesome tone on the slant cab! What are the speakers?
great analysis!
Thanks man!
Great recording!
Great video bud !!!!
With celestion, the problem is they don't sound the same, sometime a lot ! Try same mic position on different speakers and you will see ! So to do it right, you should use always the same speaker and place it in both cabs ! Can go crazy but that what I do !
+Jose Sanchez Yeah, indeed for an exhaustive test that's whats required, but I have Trieste compensate for that by using 2 cabs of each here to identify general tendencies. And I think the A and B cabs here correlate
Nothing wrong, your video shows perfectly the difference !
+Jose Sanchez Thanks man :-)
Never realized there was that much difference. I am about to order two new cabs and was going to go with the A's but after hearing how much fatter and sparkly the B's sound I may go with them.
if you use the slant cabs with extended range guitars like the prs baritone they sound interesting
Very clear thank you for that.
thanks!
Slant all the way. Imagine being this guys neighbor? Love all your Marshall vids!
+octaviafuzzguy Thanks man ;-)
Det var en mycket bra jämförelse. Just hur du spelade gjorde det tydligt, mvh Thomas.
Tackar!
Jeff Beck in the Truth era used two slant speakers for his Marshall. Nice sound and nice esthetic
0:52 : one of the best tones I've ever heard coming out of a cab.
Thanks man! Glad to hear that!
I just love definition in the high frequencies, there's a lot of people that just hate it, calling it fizzy… etc, but i'm crazy about it I can't help that ! It sounds a bit like if you had mixed DI distorted signal with the miced cabinet together to get some kind of full range tone. Those old greenbacks are gold.
Hey Johan, we play current hard rock, not quite metal but radio hard rock (mix of 90's and current heavy with a few balladish ones). I have both slant and straight cabs but selling one and recording soon, which would best to sell as I only need 1 from now on?
+OverKast The slanted cabs are more versatile to me, so I'd let that one stay. Cheers
Johan Segeborn read in your comments you said straight cabs for heavier music so I wanted to make sure on what one I get rid of
+OverKast I think it's mostly for 70-80s hard rock, for a more modern scooped tone the straight cab may be too boxy.
+OverKast Have you sold it yet? On second thoughts I'd keep the Straight cab also for modern metal. But they're very close for that application. Cheers
Johan Segeborn no not yet. I have the straight cab and my 2nd head up for sale now. the slant has always worked for our 90s/2000s hard rock so I stripped all the band logos off the slant and have it up on sites
I liked the sound of the slant cab, which is different than what everyone always told me...
I would love to have the test done with A tall straight cab i.e Hendrix VS the Normal size Straight cab Can't imagine would the differences would be.
+Jimi Hendrixxx Hi, I use both those types in this clip
th-cam.com/video/rWUVpulq1TE/w-d-xo.html
Thank you.
Interesting, I've had different results with my old cabs. I used to have Mills Acoustics Afterburner 4x12, Orange ppc412 both straight front and still have my old oversized peavy angled front 4x12. Tried exact same speakers in each cab, same wire etc. I did how ever scoop most of mids out, dialed in for more lower mid eq and treble is on max as I use a very dark V1 Preamp tube and use .47 tone cap.
My results were angled cab sounder bigger with much larger soundstage, more alive, cut thru mix better, louder and more high end and only slightly less very low frequency bass. Though the angled cab kinda dwarfs even oversized cabs in some regards to the point I had to use it as the base of a full stack instead of the top because it was too big.
Maybe that had bigger effect vs smaller standard marshall cabs.
Yeah, it certainly depends on what the in signal is. And the woods/grillcloths/dimensions of your three brands of cabs are big factors as well. Cheers Johan
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned but the kink in the front baffle of the slant cabinet will probably make that area much stiffer than the flat one piece front baffle of the non slant cab. This will hold the speakers more firmly.
+Nick Benjamin I don't know if more stiffness is lost by having a 2-piece baffle?
Johan Segeborn If the joint is properly put together then the angle should make the baffle stiffer than a flat one.....if! This method of stiffening is used in engineering all the time and Italian mandolin soundboards are made stiffer by having a kink but it does depend on a good joint!! Try flexing the middle of the two front baffles to see!
When I put some pyramidfoam (or some other sound deadening material) on the back wall of my slant cab, which reduces the reflection of soundwaves inside the box, do you think a slant cab might sound more like a straight? But with different emission characteristics outside the box?
+mreyeballz Interesting.. I'm gonna try that too. Thanks for the tip. Yeah I think it will loose some mids and sound closer to the straight cab. Cheers
Here is your quote:
"To my ears slant cabs have more mids, less highs and lows,
less attack and is easier to play."What do you mean "Easier to play"?. Which cab do you prefer? Thanks VP
Why do they not separate each speaker in guitar cabs so that the rear wave doesn't interfer with one another?
+Whitefox2298 Cost is one reason, but also smaller boxes sounds differently than bigger ones. Cheers
Greetings,
If speakers were so amazingly perfect then we'd just suspend them in the air on springs. We don't do that because a speaker without a box sounds absolutely terrible. Try it if you do not believe me. With that said, the 4 speakers are very much meant to interact with one another.
First, there are 4 speakers because it isn't really possible to put a 21" speaker in the cabinet and call it good. The 4 speakers provide the necessary surface area to provide low end even though the cabinet is sealed and not ported. That the cabinet is sealed means that the box has a natural dampening (compression) in that anything that really wants to move that speaker is going to meet some resistance from that chamber.
Finally, to produce low end you need a big box. That is the reason a cello is bigger than a violin and a stand up bass is bigger than a cello. If you want low end then you must have a big spacious box. Not only that, I want the entire cabinet to vibrate with the fundamental frequency somewhere near my low E so that when I get on it the entire room shakes with my box.
Oh yeah, those reflections inside the box are what make the guitar sound like a living vibrating instrument and not some lame keyboard.
The straight cabs sound more bright and punchy whereas the angled sounds dull and muddy.
It's actually the opposite
Wow! Also beautiful paul.if i ever get a cab i guess it'll be a straight.which i whould have gone with a slant just caz they look coolera and i like standong right in front of my speakers. I use two combos and the stand i built is on the slant.
From my experience with Marshall slant vs straight, was that the straight sounded “looser” with a better balanced bass. Angle cabs, to my ears, have a bit more edgy and pronounced mid range. Great video!
I agree with that. I think it's because the angled cab has a more rigid baffle. The angle bend, plus the back bone that the straight cab doesn't have.
Whats on top of the head? Lights up when you play. Some kind of attenuater ?
+Charles Von kanel Hi Charles! Yeah it's THD Hot Plate Power attenuator.
How well does it work? Does it suck the tone much?
+Charles Von kanel It works great, it has EQ compensation that works great for Marshalls. I use Hot Plate and Weber Mass 100 with my amps. The Weber is a bit more transparent to me.
Holy crap! I never played the mountain in my living room, only at a gig
I say slant is the "better" one overall, especially when you're considering the audience's ears and where they're probably standing. The way the speakers mesh because the sound goes in two different directions makes the difference. It's more "husky" and guitar-y (lack of a better word?).
If you're standing directly in front of a slant cab--facing it--it's not immediately pleasant like straight cabs. They lack the same deep low-end and are really mid forward and thin. However, once you step back from it or sit down a few feet away (as though you're in the audience), you get a true feeling for the sound slants make. Like I said, it's huskier. I learned this about my Soldano slant 412. I originally hated how it sounded in person and realized that it's the nature of slant cabs to be super middy like that if you're standing up really close to it. You gotta move back on slants to really hear them.
Have the straight cab but after watching this video will sure be getting a slant too!
Straight cab all the way!
Thanks
Of course!! I just bought a 1960ax slant cab with greenbacks....
And like the straight cab sound in this demo...........
Joseph Robinson-Newell I just bought a 1960bx. Keep trying to decide if I should swap for an ax!
they both sound awesome buy the way
Beside the sounds , what is the difference for the price tag ? Which one is the most expansive and harder to find ? A slant or a straight one ? Thanks for the explanations Johan :)
For vintage cabs there's 1 straight cab for every 10 slants. But they're not that more expensive
Cool :)
I know this is an old video, but what equipment did you use here to play with such an credible tone at low volumes. You’re not even wearing your headphones. I’d really like to know because I am thinking about getting an attunator and this video is what I’m going for soundwise
I know this is late, but just wanted to help out, here he is using THD Hotplate (he sits them on top of the heads on the left side of the screen)
@@randolphcarlisle2976 Thanks man, really appreciate it. I actually found out myself and managed to get one in almost perfect condition for only 130€
My Amp has never sounded better tbh
Have a good one:) 🤘
My favorite Ace lick...
Hey Johan, You can't do a good demo because you are micing the same 12" speaker on all of them in the same place. You would
have to set up a mic about 12 inches higher than the Marshall logo on the cab and put the mic at least 6-8 foot away from the cabs.
That way you would be able to tell from an audience perspective on how much is gained or lost from a straight or slant cabinet. You
know what I mean? We already know that if you only use an angled 4x12 cab and you stand in front of it while you play your guitar
you will hear the sound easier because it is working similar to a monitor, but if you use a 4x12 cab on stage , you might not hear it as well because all of the speakers
are facing forward. I'd like to hear a demo from you set up the way I mentioned it in the 2nd sentence. That way we all would get
a really good idea how much sound is lost or gained by angled vs straight. I personally like the Straight cab myself. Whether I'm sitting or standing.
Same speakers in all the cabs?
That's funny I have that exact same slant cab as he does
I think the B cabs sounded better in all but one of the scenarios illustrated in this video but I prefer playing through an A/B deuce! I would typically mic the bottom cab(s).
LOVE the Ace Frehley Alive! solo!
why do they sound different? just because of how the sound waves are bouncing around inside the cab?
+tyler stains yeah primarily, and also the difference in volume
Do you move the room mic when capturing these?
+jkess114 no it's stationary
Ahhh, just a thought. 4X12's are so directional I was thinking some of the tonal variation may have been coming from the room mic. If its not in the same location relative to the speaker cabinet in the room then it can sound very different. I'm a recording engineer for many years and have encountered this.
+jkess114 you have a point regarding the top two speakers where A and B aren't positioned identically with respect to the stationary mic. Cheers
Cool! The straight cab sounds more Slayerish :-)
your neighbours must be deaf or you live on a farm miles away from everyone! haha love the vids, keep it up :)
+Cal Wegener Thanks Cal! :-)
I build cabs: the main point is inside volume that are not equal, the slanted as less volume and so bass responce is shifted up a bit. That's why metal player like Mesa Oversized: more volume, lower bass responce, to much may lead to floppy bass.The other point is that speaker cone is transparent to sound reflected inside, but this is another story and one of my secrect to make my cabs sound huge.
+Jose Sanchez That's interesting so you mean the volume is the dominant parameter here and not the angle of the speakers? Cheers Johan
If you place your mic in the upper speakers of the slanted cab then in the lower one, you will notice less mids in up position, so yes the angle is important but less than the volume in this case.
speaker cones are not transparent to reflected sound at all, you dont understand how speaker cabinets work
First, as always--tack så mycket...nej...tusen tack!--to Johan for sharing his awesome "research" with the world! Second, it occurs to me in those diagrams, that the red waves coming down from the "top" (back) corner, well, they're coming "up" from the bottom (back) corner as well, right? So I'm thinking there's something more...*equalized*...(not quite the word I'm after), but perhaps more "evenness"(?) about the cancellation/attenuation/augmentation of the frequencies/overall frequency response with the straight-type. Not as "lively" as the slant-type; the straights are a bit darker, but more balanced or something... =)
Thanks, yeah the B cabs have a straighter EQ than the A cabs. Cheers
Thanks Johan! I have a '70-'71 red tolex B cab (w/ the stock "Thames Ditton Surrey" G12H's)--so yeah, I'm a bit biased there... :D Nonetheless, your impressive reference demonstration of the two types is very edifying, as always!
Thats my excuse to use an A and B cab. Their differences sound great together, some would call it classic. lol
LordOfThisWorld74 A good excuse :-) Cheers
the slant cab sounded 'bigger' to me .
Same here.
Oh yeah! I hear that parasite in there! You're the man Johan!
This guy blew all his money on his cab collection and then saved money on the mic stand! Balancing it on some old books... 😂 dude the mic positioning is so crucial!
Anyway. Love your videos. Good stuff
I was always told the 1960 B cab was more desirable than the A cab and had more "rock" tone to it, but I never separated my stack to find out. This demo.- "if correct" -certainly challenges the info I was told.
+wydeglyde00 The B-cabs have received a certain status since they are so much more rare compared to A-cabs. I think the sound of the A-cabs are more commonly occuring on classic records. The B-cabs sounds more aggressive though.
Straight cabs sound best to me as I like more lowend.
which cab is better? :)
+Marlon Ibarra That depends on the application, but I think more classic rock albums have been recorded with slant cabs. And Straight cabs sounds more hardrock. They have a more pronounced and cutting lower mid. Cheers