PART 3 - California Smog/BAR Referee In-Person Appointment - 1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S - AE86 w/F20C
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- This is an overview of the in-person process through the California Smog/BAR Referee program with my 1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S (AE86) with a Honda S2000 F20C swap that I had put together over 10 years ago. I go over everything that the state ref looked at during my inspection to get my car BAR'd.
![PART 1. I was state reffed in California with out of state plates [What you need to know]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/v2euNkGMk1M/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TH] RNT vs SPG - VCT Ascension Pacific - Day 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RUTkf8Detj8/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video, very informative and well done! Congrats on being legal. That would be nerve racking and anxious for me.
Nice dude.
Drive that skyline too!
Going to be attempting an LS1 T56 swap in a 93 Toyota pickup 2WD. I am bookmarking all of your videos are reference guides. Crucial information! Located near the bay! I may be stopping by for more information and or questions.
It's a fun process. Before you start, just make sure that the model year engine/ECU are from the same model year or newer, and engine classification of the donor car has the same gross vehicle weight classification (you'll have to do a little more digging as where your truck falls vs. the donor engine/ECU) going into your 1993 Toyota pickup (e.g. light-duty truck to light-duty truck... you can't use a heavy-duty truck engine in a light-duty truck). It's a fun process, but do the homework first to see that those are allowed. You can download the BAR's Smog Check Reference Guide and pay special attention to Appendix D which is the engine change section.
@@agraygoatthank you for such a quick response. I will definitely be referencing that guide religiously over the next few months/year lol. I intend to get a donor vehicle so I have access to all smog equipment and wiring /harnesses etc. instead of piecing it together. One of my concerns was regarding the gas tank, and having to swap it over but I have seen some information regarding OBD1 to OBD2 swaps and being able to retain stock fueling system components obviously with additional systems like evap canister etc.
Actually the one that I’ve read the most conflicting information about is what transmissions are allowed. I’ve read that if the donor vehicle comes with an auto it must stay auto in the swap vehicle, something about the PCM’s throwing a code because it’s wanting a signal from the auto that a manual won’t give, “oh just tune that fault code out” no that won’t work either I thought especially based on your videos regarding PCM’s being completely stock and not modified at all. Others say that’s not an emissions related code you’re ok, buy an auto and swap a manual trans later, but before you take it to the ref. Since the BAR sticker does state what type of trans is in there at the time of testing. Any insight? This relates to “just buy the cheaper” 4.8/5.3 Iron LS that only came with autos (4L60E’s or 80e’s) and the trash NV4500 truck manuals VS the more expensive LS1/T56 combos. That’s going to determine what I buy as a donor.
@@Burnin209 - A car going from non-OBD2 to OBD2 can retain its stock fuel tank. However, any required emissions components attached to the fuel tank need to added on/modified to fit the existing tank. This was a 1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S which was pre-OBD... I am using a Corolla fuel tank, but it had to be modified to fit all of the S2000 components onto the fuel tank (there was brazing involved). Because of the bulky emissions components, I ended up cutting part of the trunk floor out to fit the tank in its stock location. If the car is going from OBD2 to OBD2, I believe you need to use the donor fuel tank though. The PCMs cannot be modified from what I was able to gather... If that particular engine came with a manual transmission at that time, use the ECU meant for a manual. They took my PCM# and verified that it was indeed for the make/model/year of my engine. They verified that my block was for this PCMs as well. The manual PCMs are going to have a different part# from the automatics. In regards to the PCMs, they made me take mine to the Honda dealership to have it verified to make sure that it was the most updated version and unmodified. I had a lot of trouble finding a Honda dealership to look at a "Toyota" to plug into the PCM. I had to call in a few favors to get the car in. Keep me up-to-date with your build and swap. It sounds exciting.
A fun process haha, are you for real dude? You sound like you're an employee for CARB @@agraygoat
@@dmv494- Haha. I might as well be. I learned enough of the process and met enough people to be able to at least apply.
Very informative and really appreciate that you taking the time to help us out!
I had a lot of help and just want to pass on what information that I gathered. It's a great feeling to have your car finally be legal.
After countless research and emails back and forth with the state referee, I finally got a response that I was cleared to move on to the in-person inspection! I am one step closer to legally driving my car back on the road. It wouldn't have been possible if you didn't list the people who helped you because I actually reached out to Andrew on Instagram and he has been a tremendous help! I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your video and you sure made a difference in my father and son build so thank you again!
Screw ca smog! I should be able to do whatever I want to my car!
Getting a swap legal in CA is a project in itself. Oh you swapped a cool engine into your car? Now do it while making it California compliant... I totally feel you.
You could always relocate to a change of ownership county.
Ref was running the OIS test that model year 2000+ vehicles are subject to during registration renewal.
Good to know... Does that mean I have to do OIS AND rollers every time going forward?....
@@agraygoat nah, you will test as usual based on year of vehicle, so you still get dyno/sniffer every two years. There won’t be another obd2 functional check either. Check engine light still has to function properly though.
@@sfbmx88 - The Old dyno tester computers do an OBDII check but it's not as extensive as the Newer OIS test. In fact i bet you could get away with a tune with them using the older Dyno smog computer to test. I think only the OIS SMOG computers check for the tunes. Might be a nice little loophole there
@@stevew9563 Yes, they still have OBD functional, but in the case where you have a 1995 and older vehicle with an OBD2 swap, that part of the test is omitted during its "regular" smog check. 1996+ will still be functionally tested.
OBD2 port on a 1985 car! In my case 2 refs took 2 full hours to validate my swap. It is very rewarding when you play by the rules. Hope that rear end is doing well with the F20C. Synthetic oil might help.
I totally agree. There's something nice about being legal. Rearend seems to be ok for now. We'll see though. My car doesn't really go to the track anymore, so the wear shouldn't be as bad.
What car did you swap? I love seeing other peoples' swaps.
You must be in south bay. I am in Los Angeles. The car is an 80 Volvo station wagon. Good choice on the F20C. Some people here use the SR20DET but I dont understand how they can make that engine legal because it is a JDM.
@@Juancheros - I'm actually on the Peninsula closer to San Francisco. Wagons are super-cool. What did you put in it? So, here's a little bit of interesting information... I saw that a JDM 1996 ITR with an OBD1 port was passed by BAR recently. The ITR wasn't offered here until after that here. I'm wondering if they allowed that because the engine came here eventually but that it was just early enough to still allow OBD1?
I am familiar with a JDM 1996 ITR swap done by 2Kgs in the bay area. What he did was nothing new. Years ago I did a similar JDM swap into a Subaru. I used the JDM engine as a replacement block and did not even have to go to a referee. Everything else under the hood remained USDM and it worked normally at the smog station. In this manner, the engine swap was classified under BAR rules as an engine replacement rather than an engine change. In my Volvo, the engine swap was towards a V8 hence it was classified under BAR rules as an engine change therefore a visit to the Referee. BAR rules are very clear about no JDM’s. This is why I can not see how an SR20DET is allowed in CA because nothing like it was sold in USDM. It would have otherwise been a good engine for a lot of CA swaps. Whatever you folks out there do, keep it legal and you will enjoy it more in the long run.
Informative video! If I buy my parts piecemeal instead of buying a donar car, do I use the ecu as the car I'm testing against? Does the engine vin still have to match the ecu?
Correct. You want to have the ECU that you will be testing for. For example, I used a 2002 Honda S2000 ECU (I pieced mine together as well) and tested as such with the BAR. You just need to make sure that all of the emissions-related components from a 2002 Honda S2000 are present on the swap. The engine VIN# didn't have to match the ECU for my swap, but they did verify to see that I was using the appropriate F20C block for my swap. Each ref might be different in this regards. The most difficult thing for me was finding a dealership that would even look at my car to verify that the ECU wasn't modified. Some ECUs you can program (they'll verify at the dealership that it's not flashed and if it is, they can have it flashed with the most recent updates) and some you can't (ROM - read-only memory). Mine was ROM and I just made sure that the dealership paperwork stated that the ECU could not be flashed with updates as it was ROM. Otherwise, you'll want them to update the ECU and write in the paperwork that it has the most recent updates. What swap are you working on?
@@agraygoat I'm working on a 2gr-fe swap into my 86 MR2. Most difficult thing is trying to get it set up w/ a manual transmission. Turns out one specific year Toyota sienna came with an external transmission control which can be used with a manual. I was hoping that I could piece together the build instead of having to find one specific donor car. You video is one of two I've seen where the owners were bar-ing a former track only car, so it didn't make sense to me that the REFs would match VIN's with ECU.
This make it a lot easier since I wanted to just find an engine to rebuild and build my own harness, and I could pick up emissions stuff and ecu separately.
What about receipts for parts? Did they ask to see that stuff?
Did they give you the bar and emissions paperwork there? Or they mailed them to you?
The dealership gave me the invoice and paperwork that I needed right then and there to show to the BAR (once your appointment has been made). When you go in for the BAR, they'll look over your car, smog it, and take care of everything right there. They'll put the BAR label on your car right there.
Congratulations!!!
Thanks, Wes. It's seriously been a long time coming.
Did the referee make you install the bcm or anything to satisfy the security system for some of the computers
@@justinvaughn801- It depends on the ECU. Technically anything that's not emissions-related can go, but with Hondas you have an immobilizer that will kick the CEL on if it's forcibly removed. I had the original key for the ECU so I was able to easily incorporate that into the wiring. I removed everything else that didn't kick on the CEL though (power windows, mirrors, convertible top, etc.). Keep the OBD port functional and plug in the reader to see what codes are popping up. What swap are you doing?
@agraygoat I'm in final stages of a smog legal ls swap. 89 silverado with 2004 6.0 4l80 and he said since the immobilizer has wiring to the gm style immobilizer that I have to integrate it vs just turning that off I the ecm tune.
@@justinvaughn801- Nice. They have a reg about truck engines going into truck engines and not cars. I can't remember what the exact language was off the top of my head. Is your swap from a Trailblazer? Have you already been talking with the BAR?
I hate following rules, but thanks for letting us know how you followed the rules
I get it. Ironically, we took a few cars out last night for the first time in a long time. We all got stopped but were let go since we were all legal. There's something nice about not having to worry about getting ref'd or harassed anymore.
@@agraygoatYa thanks for sharing your experience. That's whack they even pulled you over but gotta be a good feeling knowing they can't do shit. I got a 95 civic and trying to do h22 from a prelude in it, want to keep it OBD1 but 95 is last year of obd1 kinda making it a pain to find engine
@@tooltips9911 - Yeah, but it's all good. Good luck with your swap. The only other suggestion that I would have would be to use a newer engine. The H22 is a pretty old engine nowadays and parts will only get harder and harder to find.
@@agraygoat If the engine swap rules weren't so ridiculous I would just use a newer k24. The obd1 honda engines swapped in an obd1 car is all plug and play, and my eg had a d16z6 so wired for vtec already. If I go to an obd2 engine I would have to rewire everything and it gets harder to make sure evap and smog equipment all works to BARs approval
@@tooltips9911 - Going from OBD1 or non-OBD to OBD2 isn't as bad as you would think. The most helpful thing for me was having the wiring diagram for the donor car and your current chassis. Keep the accessories on one harness and the engine/emissions stuff on another. Very little crosses over. A newer engine is well, newer and there's something to be said about that as well.
Good video. Im almost ready to take my Suzuki Samurai to the ref after I do the proper break in. I have been sitting on the engine swap for the pass ten years. It was a Craigslist purchase back in the days. My concern is the proof of purchase.
Also does the gas cap have to match the the newer engine swap or the stock original one?
You do not need to show proof of purchase, although I did have the paperwork. They really just verified that my engine block was for the engine that I was trying to swap in. I can't remember the specifics with the fuel tank, but if it's an OBD2 car to a pre-OBD2 car, you don't need to swap the tank over. The gas cap should match the tank. Good luck on the process. The ref will tell you if something fails and you can correct it and make another appointment. I lined everything up that I could (as described in the videos) and passed on the first try. If you stay on it, you'll get it. Let me know how it goes.
I know the whole thing took 15 years since the swap started, but if you had kept at it w/o stopping for the period, how long would it have taken you to get the engine swap & mods approved? Im thinking of doing a project using a k24 in a MR2
Since I had gutted all of my emissions wiring years ago and tossing everything, I had a fair bit of work to do. I had to run all new wiring from scratch built from random plugs and harnesses that I had laying around. I had to find all of the parts as well. All of this took maybe 3 months doing a couple hours here and there? The work wasn't that hard; it was pulling apart my old harness and finding out what wires needed to be tied back into the original harness. If you already have a harness and didn't hack it up like I did, the swap and BAR approval would have been quick. You can't apply until your car is ready though. They're going to request information from the swap before they'll give you an in-person appointment time. I was really lucky to have enthusiasts in the community helping me out. Finding a dealership to even plug in was difficult for me (to show that the ECU was updated and not modified). The K24 is a good engine.
Very informative I’m thinking on a k series swap in my ek sedan
That should be a pretty easy one. The EKs were OB2, weren't they? You might want to double-check on this one, but you might need to use the fuel tank from whichever k-series that you're taking your swap from.
I recently picked up a car and I took it to a smog shop to get it smogged and they told me car it is state reff didn’t know so I called a number they told me to call about a state reff and it’s due to the emissions that’s why , I have fixed it and check engine lights are off. Will they just be checking for emissions or other stuff ?
What kind of car is it? Did they give you a reason why? There are some cars with a history of tampered emissions or fails and there are certain cars that have a high emitter profile (tend to pollute more). I would be curious as to why your car got to go. At the ref, they're going to look over everything and test it according the the year/make/model.
Whats up bro, I was starting to do my research on getting BAR about 4 yrs ago on my ef sedan with an B16 swap but i stopped since the refs dont want any jumper harness on the ecu. Did you experience this? Any insight would be great. Also when I called the ref he gave me a checklist but he never mentioned the need for an obd port to be added. Thanks
I used the Honda S2000 ECU with the pigtails and wired everything else up by hand. I eliminated everything that I didn't need (EPS, convertible top, power windows, etc.). It's easiest to have the full harness from your donor vehicle and pull what you don't need out. I piecemealed mine together which was definitely more labor intensive. Having the FSM and electrical diagrams for both vehicles really helped me. If you can't find or are too cheap to buy a physical copy, print one out. I find it a lot easier to read and follow when it's laid in front of me physically and not electronically.
Hell yeah!!
Thanks Mike. It's a relief. We need to meet up one of these days...
good video
Thanks. I hope it helps you in whatever projects you get yourself into.
dog i swapped a 3.4L V6 into my 2.8L V6 fiero and i put a 2.8L cat and did nothing else and it passed all be it dose look factory but still is a bigger engine with more power so idk lol
Nice.
U got any clue lok plus it was running like trash and it back fired hella @@agraygoat
@SirNerfDude1986 - Backfiring could be a number of things, but I would just be guessing without seeing the car in person. The popping is unburned fuel igniting in your exhaust if that is what's actually happening. I'm not sure if the 2.8L cat is going to be smaller or more restrictive than a 3.4L one either.
Seems like alot of work
It definitely is a lot of work, but there's something nice about not having to worry about getting pulled over for out-of-state plates or refereed knowing that you won't pass.
Safety will always be the biggest concern :)
Toyonda toyonda
It's actually a Honyota.
Did thwy verify the vin on the engine? And did they ask for proof of purchase?
I heard that they did and I had all of the paperwork printed and lined up, but they didn't ask for it. They did look to see that it was the right engine that I was BAR'ing for though. What are you looking to swap?
This exactly what I would like to know as well
what if the motor is swapped?
Do you mean if you decide to do another engine swap after the swap or do you mean a replacement engine? This Toyota Corolla has a Honda S2000 engine and was BAR'd as such. I could swap another AP1 S2000 engine into it and it would be fine, but if I decided to swap in a different engine from a Corvette, I would need to go through the BAR process again.
@@agraygoat i bought a car and it’s state reffed but it has a different engine how would that work?
@@ronnieestrada1693If the car is already reffed and has the sticker, you just go to a normal smog check station and get a smog.
@@ronnieestrada1693 - What swap is it? I'm guessing that you mean that it hasn't been BAR'd and that you bought a car with a swapped engine, right?
Where is the referee at in california
They're all over California. Where are you located?
whatabout in riverside county@@agraygoat