CHANGING ROCKER ARM RATIO TO GAIN POWER!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2022
- THIS APPLIES TO MOST MAKES BY MAKING THE VALVE LIFT HIGHER THAN EVER BEFORE GAINING FREE HORSEPOWER IN THE PROCESS!
Obtw, I get numerous requests for technical advice and if interested, tex me @ 626 203 2712. Half hour to 1 hour+ rates are available. Most calls go over as posted and it is ok. US Pacific time zone.
By chance, last week, i found ..021 loss with to short of a pushrod, and with right pushrod, compared 2 different 1.6 rockers , and they both said 1.6 but one companys rockers pushed the valve a plus .024 thou.down than the other companys !! Shocked me ! Just shows me to check everything from now on !
Seen it and even the accuracy of a company claiming 1.6 or 1.7 and nowhere even close! Yes I check just to make sure when we are trying to get as much out of an engine I am building at the moment.
I cant thank you enough for the info , regarding rocker ratio adding lift , while keeping the CAMSHAFT lobe profile . I learn so much from your experience and knowledge. Thank you Ben!!!
I told someone this quite a few years ago and they told me I was full of it. I knew better. It does work I've tried it. You're the best
Those who disagree sometimes have a close mind and those like you who tried it know it works! Thanks.
Ben, your cars leave the line sooo hard!!! Its a thing of beauty to watch. I dont even own a sbf as im an FE guy but i love watching your videos and learning!!
Thank you Jason! The technique if followed just like I have shown indeed yields impressive results! Racecars naturally aspirated pulling wheelstands or just plain leaving the line strong, indicates power and I am blessed to share with all what I have been doing...
Years ago I put in full roller 1.7/1 rocker arms in my 350 chevy. I now have a Comp Cams street legal in California with these rocker arms. It now has .512 lift. I also put in the 2.02 and 1.68 valves. You have to change springs to prevent spring binding and destroying the motor. I put in Summit Springs good to .525 lift at the valve. Make sure to check your springs and when they will bind. When you put your foot in it you know something is happening. This is in a 1969 Chevy stretch van. It surprises people at stoplights. No need to rev or anything it just takes off.
I think maybe he’s a Ford guy. And I like that
Yes sir you are absolutely correct!
Ford is always fucked on race days
Thank you for sharing your years of experience…
Great video . Thank you Mr Alameda !
Thanks for sharing your experience mr alameda well noted thankyou. Peace
Increasing rocker arm ratio dies two things.
Advancing the timing of the valves.
Which lifts the valve off the seat quicker.
Plus increases full lift air flow …
Great video 👍👍
Thank YOU for saying PLEASE.
That's a rarity on YT.
Thank you sir.
Have thought about many times. Thanks
Thanks for video!
You the man!! Great content!!
Thanks Michael.
Good advice
Awesome Ben
I was doing that to a oldsmobile 455 i put in a 1967 442 olds , put Pontiac roller rockers 35 years ago beat a couple 429 ford side oil with that lol no tire on them 1967 fasts backs lol
Lash caps are good for fine tuning too, and if the roller tip gets too close to the edge of the valve.
As long as the caps do not affect valvetrain geometry it is a good thing!
I'm going 1.82 with ls3 heads . .621 int lift with 1.7 to .664 with 1.82, heads have valve job and flow well up there
It increases low lift airflow
And
Also full lift air flow…
Lifting the valve off the seat quicker
thanks mr ben i changed to 1.6 with 7/16 studs and stud girdle sbc and man i picked up some power
Thanks!
Maybe advise as to the lash change differences and rpm limit of going to a higher ratio - not always a positive reliability move - for careful testing it should be safe.
Yes I can do that on following videos, while covering all aspects it will be more than an hour. Presenting the idea and proceed with caution of course.
When it gets too long we will lose the viewer so it is best to cut it into smaller video segments.
Thank You for this video. You made it so easy to understand, that even this knucklehead got it!!😂
Thanks for your support sir!
I know that you are a high rpm racing engine guru but I heard you mention building a towing engine in one of your previous videos. I would be really interested in what you have learned to optimize lower rpm high torque and reliability builds. I know it not as sexy as a 8,000 rpm racing engine but it is where truck motors live. It's not something anyone else seems to talk about and efficiency is only getting more important as fuel prices rise.
Longer runner intakes help low end torque, if you run a carb, use one that has annular boosters, those are good for close to 90lb/ft of torque way down low. If you use a carb spacer, don't use a open one, use the 4 hole or split ones to increase carb signal.
The best remedy for torque is cubic inches! I have done a 4.250 stroke on an .030 bore which is a 432 cid in reality pulls like a big block even with conventional dual plane manifold and pulls like gangbusters. All these stroke bigger than ALL factory big blocks and weights in at 465# soaking wet!
If you have this basic layout it will be hard to beat and not much need for long runner intakes or any kind of add ons. It flat out hauls even on a heavy truck.
Yes I would love to hear truck motor vs car motor
From my experience, the best torque is made with cubes and when the induction and exhaust components match (goldilocks scenario). In other words, if you match your components perfectly, a bigger engine will always produce more consumption and more output. A person can build a 350 that has more output than a 454 if the 454 has poorly matched components.
Once the engine flows just right (not too big, not too small), then cam timing events play the greatest roll, along with an accurate tune. Like BA said, overlap is what pulls that intake charge into the cylinder to start filling it, more than piston downstroke.
When you fill the cylinder just right, and then ignite the mixture at the perfect time to create max cyl pressure between 10 to 15 degrees ATDC, you will always maximize torque/output.
The LSA of a cam determines the breadth of the power curve. The more ideal you get the LSA for your combo, the broader the curve will be.
The Overlap then determines where the engine makes it's peak, less overlap is most efficient at lower RPM and therefore makes best power down low. More overlap, the idle gets grumpier but makes it's power higher up.
The Duration is determined based on the first two, and can be increased or decreased based on port efficiency, but is tied to overlap. Since LSA is fixed, increasing Duration will increase Overlap.
Lift is determined based prior choices, desired ramp rates on the lobes, valve train noise, spring rates, etc. Increasing lift is beneficial based on valve/bowl/chamber efficiency. Sometimes increasing lift creates no affect or gain. But usually creates a gain because certain components aren't perfect.
Changing rockers is a good way to improve flow which doesn't change your cam specs, that dictate the character of the engine. They act as a lobe with more lift and ramp rate.
But all of the cam specs will vary per engine, based on the components and build, to optimize the power production..... While a turbo can work great on a NA cam, etc etc etc. A turbo will show power gains by having different specs to maximize the efficiency of the engine based on all the variables including forced induction. More often than not people pick combos that work "good enough", and are not optimized. Often combos leave 20 - 100 HP/tq on the table because they're not optimized. Cheers ~
What about push rod length for proper rocker arm geometry. If you go bigger on the rocker ratio would you also need to get longer push rods?
Good question! From my experience you must check it everytime you do a change specially a rocker arm. In fact, for an experiment get two different rocker arm brands and check the geometry. One will be good or the other real bad! I have seen it when just changing brands with the same ratio ends up screwing the geometry so there is that. Check always...
In regards to the 5.0L H.O , you would find that the factory rockers were not all a proper 1.6 ratio..Some measured 1.58 1.59 due to manufacturing tolerances...Some would hit the wrecking yards looking for "good" stock rockers to end up with a complete set that all measured 1.6 for a slight power advantage.
Agree 100%.
MOST SBC stamped steel 1.5 measure 1.42+-
Change push rod length to do same thing.should accomplish greater opening but w/out the couple degree’s of added duration
Changing the length will possibly change your rocker geometry for the worse increasing guide and valve stem wear...
Check out racers resource,,more power thru changing rocker arm geometry.you’ve heard of GM,Crane,Holley & Smokey Yunick right?there’s one more name there you’ll learn but you are right about the guides but not one pass at a time in drag racing.the Daytona 500 may be a different story if you go to far
Hey it looks like you have things well in hand though watching you go down the track
Can 1.7 rocker be used with stock 5.0 mustang valve covers.
nice!!!
my idol please shoutout from philippines
But you gotta be careful that might cause the valves to hit the pistons. Because that is increasing your Valve left
Most SBC/SBF gets close to .600 with a very tight lobe separation before you hit the pistons!
Ben - Question…dot dot dot
When you re-grind or re-profile a stock 302 5.0 camshaft…
What are you doing exactly?
What changes are you making with the profile changes..
Please do a video on that process
You're opening comment......
If you changed the rocker and you slowed down, your cam may be too big.
How about this.
Initially, put the larger ratio rockers only on the exhaust valves. If you slowed down, put the old rockers back on and then try the larger rockers on your intake valves.
If you still slowed down......
......have Ben build you an engine 😁
Thank you Randy for the kind words! lol Enjoyed the comment for sure. :)
i think i ll try that my intake .338 lobe 1.5 - .507 1.6 - .540
Just make sure you have enough valve springs and it should haul!
Hi, great video, I have a 383 with flat top pistons with deep valve reliefs. I'm running a 576 lift cam, if I use your formula going from a 1.5 to a 1.6 ratio I'm looking at 612 lift, will I still clear the valve reliefs on the pistons?
You are very close indeed and when you do this clay it to see where you are at. If you like the camshaft just go have them expand the LC from let us say 108 to 112 and this will give you additional PV clearance.
@@benalamedaracing2765
Opening the LSA drops the torque.
So what have you gained by a bigger ratio ?
Along time ago when i was building my 80 fox coupe i got my self a junk yard 99 explorer 5.0 ditched the factory cam heads intake. put a set of 190cc pro comp head that had been reworked and ported and I ran 1.7 rocked with the B cam a Victor Jr intake a 700 cam double carb ran a C4 Trans with manual valve body 3200 converter 373 gears..man it was a slug on the motor ran 13.86 @86 mph lol 🤦♂️ but on a 150 shot it ran 11.40 @115 🤷♂️ ......doing that 2 degree advice on the cam do you think that could have woke it up on the motor a bit ?
This is why I mentioned a 1.7 on a B cam might need moving the camshaft 2* and perhaps with your Pro-Comp heads (it is aluminum & runs cooler inside the chambers) and loosing the heat content drop your torque/responsiveness big time!
Try going 4* advance and that should really wake it up!
Obtw, the 700 is too big and try a 650DP that should give the response back to your engine & swap for an RPM or Air Gap manifold.
@@benalamedaracing2765 yeah i new the carb intake and the heads weren't a good fit for the combo its just what i came across at the swap meets for a good price at the time ....im actually building almost the same set up for my nephew's car except with ported P heads and a air gap intake and a 650 carb ....I will definitely do 2 or 4 degrees in the cam
@@phonypony5.0 ..Try to find an H.O cam to replace the explorer cam..The explorer cam is ford's truck cam with less intake duration and lift...Lift on the intake is only like .432 or something like that with the same exhaust as the H.O. cam..with 1.7 rockers you should see .472 intake and exhaust with the H.O. cam and it would do better than the explorer cam
@@panthermadness4232 I did I used the B303 with the 1.7 rockers lol
@@panthermadness4232
Extremely minor difference in cams. Don't waste the effort.
Put an E cam in it, 110* LSA, .498 lift with true 1.6
What about a stock gm 1972 head? Will 1.65 rockers require a valve spring or push rod change?
Definitely it will require a valve spring upgrade!
Was told changing ratio can cause valve float
It is a possibility if you are already close to max out on your valvespring installed height/pressures. Most can tolerate a ratio change and will respond good if the heads are capable of flowing more than the present valve lifts!
Have you ever ran the E303 cam with dual patter rockers. 1.6rr on the intake and 1.7rr on the exhaust. I'm using the E303 on my 408 build just curious if I am going the wrong way.
I feel you should run a bigger cam specially on a 408. If you stay with it I would run both 1.7! If not 1.7 on the intake and 1.6 on the exhaust because it is under pressure and would perform real good without a big lift. Intake needs all it can ingest to the engine.
@@benalamedaracing2765 I called Cam research to get a custom cam cut. The cam specs they gave me was almost exactly the E303 cam. I might call for a second opinion. To bad Anderson camshaft never has cams in stock. I can't seem to find a number that works for isky cams. Not asking for my build but do you have a favorite Anderson camshaft. Like a go to cam. For a weekend driver?
What about a 1995 cobra? will a trick flow 1 cam work in it with the stock 1.7 roller rockers?
What are the cam specs on the Trick Flow cam ?
Duration @ .050" - 221°/225°
Valve Lift with 1.6 Rocker - .499/.510
Lobe Separation - 112°
I’m not a rocket scientist so I could be wrong,I was once.
We all learn from our mistakes.
Free horsepower? Umm... Roller rockers DO cost something ya know? Most of the roller rockers I have ever used are normally more expensive then buying a new cam! Just saying.
There are budget roller tip rockers out there that are of good quality like the ones offered by Comp Cams.
I thought he was talking about the price difference between 1.5-1.6 or 1.6-1.7 respectively.
Rockers are the same price for either ratio.