Yes is correct. Everything over 15 degrees. So you can usa a 1/4 cosinoidal wave to have a little bit of shesring. The shape of propellers in boats and high end yatches are the best to copy. Grats video as ever BTF. ¡Big fan of yours!
Outstanding video Mr Ben, thank you for sharing your years of study and experience with us. Especially on rarely explored subject matters. I for one am truly grateful.
Great info, makes sense! In my years of racing I saw more guys running heavy weight oil have more oiling issues also! Like 20/50 or a heavy straight weight. I always ran 10/30 with a modified stock style pump with increased oil pressure relief spring! (Bumped it 10 psi or so) Granted most of us were running under 7500 and I was running 6800! (I ran stock sbf blocks…mostly 8.2 deck) In the past I saw a lot of guys have bottom end issues but know idea who or how their motors were built …those guys were running thick oils. I was thinking they either revved the crap out of their motors when cold or they had more cavitation from the thick oil! Possibly many other factors involved. I never had a bearing failure but I did crack 2 blocks and had some valve train issues from time to time! I always ran a deep sump pan with one quart lower than recommended! Always ran a windage screen too! Less oil helped keep oil level away from the crank… Great video as always….I love learning new things!
Experience teaches us a lot of things and you went thru that! It is a good learning process and others have opinions but no track experience so we start to wonder! lol You did it rather than just talking. Keep it going and thanks for supporting my channel!
Excellent. I used to not understand the importance of oil control. Then discovered most part failures occur due to lack of lubrication, or fuel dilution of the oil. Super critical, often overlooked. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine!
A good friend I built an engine for 12 years ago sold it to a racer in England. They did an oil analysis on it and found no metal bits anywhere and he was blown away! The previous owner always changes the oil after every race!
DV brought up another point when it comes to knife edges on the leading edge of the counter weight, angle the cut more toward the mains so as not to introduce oil into the path of the rods.
Yeah Ben I live in Thousand Oaks. I worked for Tim Hogan back in the 80's I've known Kenny Duttweiler since I was 19 I'm 60 now. I was the racing product manager for Paxton superchargers in the late 90's early 2000's I was the tech director for the PSCA for the first 5 years when Mel first started it. Did the tech for world Ford challenge in 00/01.Street raced with Alan Root back in the day. I did not do a total career in motorsports I was a mechanical engineer in several disciplines, I'm retired and build engines as my retirement job. I am one who believes that you can never stop learning. That is why I watch your channel there is always great info that you provide. I'm lucky that I can lean on Kenny for advice but like I said You do a really good job with your channel and I respect everything that you have accomplished. @@benalamedaracing2765
Been hanging out for your next vid.what your saying or teaching fell like your filling in more off the performance puzzle for me.appreciate everything thankyou sir.peace
Thank you, Ben for sharing more great information. I like to use the raindrop analogy to explain aerodynamics too. Just look at who sets records in max speed runs. They build a very long tail on the back. A lot of minivans have pretty good aerodynamics, as long as you drive in reverse.
Robert. good stuff and I get a kick with you stating an SUV travelling in reverse and truth be told a wind tunnel will say correct position bud! lol Thanks for your support of my channel.
I deal with Winchester Metal Works he is on facebook. Cranks is another thing because it can get pricey. Castillo Crankshaft in California can do custom work. Just mention my name when you call them up.
I appreciate the videos . Mostly what I learned is from guys I trust . I never had a engine with a dry sump but if I had a high end engine I want it for sure . I was told the bearing last longer on a dry sump. Getting the air out of the lubricant is a plus. You take off the oil come to the rear of sump but at the end of the run I was told the reverse is also true . Is it also true that adding a vacuum pump to wet sump can cause the oil not to want to flow to the pick up . I was told the accusump or what ever it's called helps just in case . Thanks for your insight. I remember watching a video on the car that was designed for Lemans for Ford and I don't remember who but they said the back of car was not made correctly or I think that's what Carol Shelby stated .
Accusump will always help and if you overdraw with a vacuum pump on the block you can have issues with oiling! I try to keep it below 12-15inches of vacuum. Too much and it dries the wrist pins, lifters and even the rocker arms which really does not need much oil to function but they do get dry when overpulled with too much vacuum. Thanks for supporting my channel.
@@benalamedaracing2765 I appreciate your time you take to answer these videos. I remember reading the oil being aerated in wet sump and how the wet sump fixed a lot of problems ..
If I wanted to mount a remote oil cooler, how do I estimate the pressure loss per foot of hose traveled? Using a -10 hose what can I expect to see (pressure drop) after 6 feet of hose, cooler and lines? Thx, love your channel
Great video Mr. Alameda! In my younger Hot Rodding days, I always looked for the small efficiencies to improve HP. IMO the crankcase was an area with hinden HP-Crank scraper, windage tray and smoothing the crankshaft surface to minimise oil from clinging to the crank were part of my oil control strategy. A crankshaft looked aerodynamically inefficient to me. I always questioned the shape of the crank throws. Would a continuous disc be more efficient? I wanted to use sheet metal to create a complete disc, unfortunately lacking the skill sets, equipment and the fear of failure prevented me from experimenting. The classic V8s have more of the crank hanging below the block compared to the newer 'Y' block designs. Same strategies or a different approach to crankcase oil management? Thank you.
Thanks for your opinion and appreciate it very much! The counterweight I have seen employ a hammerhead type counterweight which was very light and aero designed. It had a narrow pointed nose with a big main body and a tapered rear tail. Expensive but it made good power and responsive. There are blocks out there with a covered up cam tunnel preventing the oils from dropping on top of the crank. It drain towards the rear and the block was very expensive.
@@benalamedaracing2765 Still too many blew their engines every new year, they rev their engines at idle for long period of time instead of using fireworks. A recipe for disaster every start of the new year. ha ha
Great point Ben but air a liquid do act different kind of like a prop on a boat, liquids are much heavier causing much higher drags, I think more research needs to be done to make a really good crank.
There is a difference due to the fact there is indeed liquid (oil) in the scenario but it is not "submerged" at any time but just mists in varying degrees of suspension. It is however much heavier than liquid h20 and tends to adhere & cling itself to the crank, rods.
Excellent info as usual. I remember you showing me a stock dual sump Ford 302 pan filled with 5 quarts of water. At that level the crank would be splashing in the oil. I now run around 4.5 quarts in a stock pan with a windage tray to eliminate that splashing. I have a high volume oil pump. Is there a chance it could suck the pan dry? I haven’t noticed any issues.
There should be no issue with what you are doing and perhaps a drain line from the front sump to the back sump. This prevents the wasted 1 quart sitting in the front sump not doing anything. Thanks for your support of my channel Evan!
always great info mr ben. i have the same box in matte black, how bout some solid roller lifter stuff or maybe i missed one thank you for making this stuff
Great video. Great info. Got me thinking. What if you rounded the leading edge of the counter weight offset away from the block webbing with a taper towards the web (sort of using the web as an additional scraper) and bevel the trailing edge toward the web. It would be interesting to see if it reduced the amount of oil in suspension.
All efforts to control the oil and windage losses will account for gains for sure! It is basically neglected except for a few cranks that are designed aero correct and they charge a lot of $$$! I feel I made myself clear on the counterweight design and hope nobody got mad at me for pointing these things out on the counterweights.
I f you take any of my FE cranks, those guys knew what they were doing. They cast them to turn the correct way with the thin side cutting the air and oil right where it belongs., I made my scraper and I have a Canton pickup and a pan with trap doors and the scraper with the windage tray as part of the pan. The oil draining front and rear only has one place to go , into the sump.,with minimal air and effort. The oil pump drive rod is tapered ARP. And I really wish there was a way to run a rear sump pan. Like a front gilmer belt pump with a pipe running to the rear and into the rear of the pan with an A/N fitting into a Canton pickup into a rear sump pan and a second pipe into oil filter adapter with a screen filter and into the feed.
@@benalamedaracing2765 I was talking about where the scraper is welded to the oil pan. They welded short sections spaced out leaving gaps where it wasn't welded. You demonstrated with brake clean how it would allow oil thru creating windage losses . If you were to weld the parts that were left unwelded, making a solid weld the length of the scraper, the oil would not pass thru the holes. It should then work similar to an oil pan with a stand out . Unless I misunderstood something
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Yes is correct. Everything over 15 degrees. So you can usa a 1/4 cosinoidal wave to have a little bit of shesring. The shape of propellers in boats and high end yatches are the best to copy.
Grats video as ever BTF. ¡Big fan of yours!
Thank you sir and appreciate your input!
Outstanding video Mr Ben, thank you for sharing your years of study and experience with us. Especially on rarely explored subject matters. I for one am truly grateful.
Thanks as well John and glad to have help.
Great info, makes sense! In my years of racing I saw more guys running heavy weight oil have more oiling issues also! Like 20/50 or a heavy straight weight. I always ran 10/30 with a modified stock style pump with increased oil pressure relief spring! (Bumped it 10 psi or so)
Granted most of us were running under 7500 and I was running 6800! (I ran stock sbf blocks…mostly 8.2 deck)
In the past I saw a lot of guys have bottom end issues but know idea who or how their motors were built …those guys were running thick oils.
I was thinking they either revved the crap out of their motors when cold or they had more cavitation from the thick oil! Possibly many other factors involved. I never had a bearing failure but I did crack 2 blocks and had some valve train issues from time to time! I always ran a deep sump pan with one quart lower than recommended! Always ran a windage screen too! Less oil helped keep oil level away from the crank…
Great video as always….I love learning new things!
Experience teaches us a lot of things and you went thru that! It is a good learning process and others have opinions but no track experience so we start to wonder! lol
You did it rather than just talking. Keep it going and thanks for supporting my channel!
Thanks Ben, your racing knowledge is awesome.
Thanks for supporting my channel and subscribe!
Excellent. I used to not understand the importance of oil control. Then discovered most part failures occur due to lack of lubrication, or fuel dilution of the oil. Super critical, often overlooked. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine!
A good friend I built an engine for 12 years ago sold it to a racer in England. They did an oil analysis on it and found no metal bits anywhere and he was blown away! The previous owner always changes the oil after every race!
I got a lot of “decorations” Ben.
DV brought up another point when it comes to knife edges on the leading edge of the counter weight, angle the cut more toward the mains so as not to introduce oil into the path of the rods.
Centrifugal force will take care of that and will slam the oil hard on the passenger oil pan rail.
Your an honest man
Much appreciated
Thanks for supporting my channel Art!
Hey Ben,
Been a fan of yours since the old 5.0 vs the GN days. Thanks for all your wisdom. Keep it up !
Thanks for your support of my channel and of course all these years! Are you from the West Coast?
Yeah Ben I live in Thousand Oaks. I worked for Tim Hogan back in the 80's I've known Kenny Duttweiler since I was 19 I'm 60 now. I was the racing product manager for Paxton superchargers in the late 90's early 2000's I was the tech director for the PSCA for the first 5 years when Mel first started it. Did the tech for world Ford challenge in 00/01.Street raced with Alan Root back in the day. I did not do a total career in motorsports I was a mechanical engineer in several disciplines, I'm retired and build engines as my retirement job. I am one who believes that you can never stop learning. That is why I watch your channel there is always great info that you provide. I'm lucky that I can lean on Kenny for advice but like I said You do a really good job with your channel and I respect everything that you have accomplished. @@benalamedaracing2765
Another great video Ben. Hope to keep seeing them coming!
Thanks for supporting my channel!
RIGHT ON BEN!!!! LEARNED A.L.O.T.! 😎
Thanks Carl!
Wow, great value I may very jaded, individual car, wise, car wise, and user were an instant subscription. Well done. !!!!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks Ben Awesome video 👍
Been hanging out for your next vid.what your saying or teaching fell like your filling in more off the performance puzzle for me.appreciate everything thankyou sir.peace
Thanks for sharing your knowledge sir!! 👍👌
thanks Ben!
Thank you, Ben for sharing more great information. I like to use the raindrop analogy to explain aerodynamics too. Just look at who sets records in max speed runs. They build a very long tail on the back. A lot of minivans have pretty good aerodynamics, as long as you drive in reverse.
Robert. good stuff and I get a kick with you stating an SUV travelling in reverse and truth be told a wind tunnel will say correct position bud! lol
Thanks for your support of my channel.
awesome information 👍
Thanks for liking!
Windage tray works extremely well in my 413 mopar, I was have oil pressure fluctuating and doing simple mods zero issues.
Thanks for supporting my channel!
well i can see that i made a mistake with that aero wing piece i used thanks benny important stuff
Where do we get a good oil pan from? And also a properly cut crankshaft? References would be cool!
I deal with Winchester Metal Works he is on facebook. Cranks is another thing because it can get pricey. Castillo Crankshaft in California can do custom work. Just mention my name when you call them up.
great info!
Thank you ben
Thanks Greg!
I appreciate the videos . Mostly what I learned is from guys I trust . I never had a engine with a dry sump but if I had a high end engine I want it for sure . I was told the bearing last longer on a dry sump. Getting the air out of the lubricant is a plus. You take off the oil come to the rear of sump but at the end of the run I was told the reverse is also true . Is it also true that adding a vacuum pump to wet sump can cause the oil not to want to flow to the pick up . I was told the accusump or what ever it's called helps just in case . Thanks for your insight. I remember watching a video on the car that was designed for Lemans for Ford and I don't remember who but they said the back of car was not made correctly or I think that's what Carol Shelby stated .
Accusump will always help and if you overdraw with a vacuum pump on the block you can have issues with oiling! I try to keep it below 12-15inches of vacuum. Too much and it dries the wrist pins, lifters and even the rocker arms which really does not need much oil to function but they do get dry when overpulled with too much vacuum. Thanks for supporting my channel.
@@benalamedaracing2765 I appreciate your time you take to answer these videos. I remember reading the oil being aerated in wet sump and how the wet sump fixed a lot of problems ..
If I wanted to mount a remote oil cooler, how do I estimate the pressure loss per foot of hose traveled?
Using a -10 hose what can I expect to see (pressure drop) after 6 feet of hose, cooler and lines?
Thx, love your channel
Good question, best to ask the oil cooler manufacturer and their recommendations and that should be the best advice!
Great video Mr. Alameda! In my younger Hot Rodding days, I always looked for the small efficiencies to improve HP. IMO the crankcase was an area with hinden HP-Crank scraper, windage tray and smoothing the crankshaft surface to minimise oil from clinging to the crank were part of my oil control strategy. A crankshaft looked aerodynamically inefficient to me. I always questioned the shape of the crank throws. Would a continuous disc be more efficient? I wanted to use sheet metal to create a complete disc, unfortunately lacking the skill sets, equipment and the fear of failure prevented me from experimenting. The classic V8s have more of the crank hanging below the block compared to the newer 'Y' block designs. Same strategies or a different approach to crankcase oil management? Thank you.
Thanks for your opinion and appreciate it very much! The counterweight I have seen employ a hammerhead type counterweight which was very light and aero designed. It had a narrow pointed nose with a big main body and a tapered rear tail. Expensive but it made good power and responsive. There are blocks out there with a covered up cam tunnel preventing the oils from dropping on top of the crank. It drain towards the rear and the block was very expensive.
Well, on the ford's that's why you move it to the rear. Like on all of the fox bodies?
Yes the chassis dictated these and almost all new engines have their pumps right at in front of the timing chain.
Thanks Kuya Ben...
Merry Christmas
Thanks as well and thanks for supporting my channel. I miss the fireworks on New Years over there with all the stuff going on! lol
@@benalamedaracing2765 Still too many blew their engines every new year, they rev their engines at idle for long period of time instead of using fireworks. A recipe for disaster every start of the new year. ha ha
I have a Ford racing balanced/blue printed high pressure pump, always thoght the engine needs mods for high volume.?
Great point Ben but air a liquid do act different kind of like a prop on a boat, liquids are much heavier causing much higher drags, I think more research needs to be done to make a really good crank.
There is a difference due to the fact there is indeed liquid (oil) in the scenario but it is not "submerged" at any time but just mists in varying degrees of suspension. It is however much heavier than liquid h20 and tends to adhere & cling itself to the crank, rods.
Excellent info as usual. I remember you showing me a stock dual sump Ford 302 pan filled with 5 quarts of water. At that level the crank would be splashing in the oil. I now run around 4.5 quarts in a stock pan with a windage tray to eliminate that splashing. I have a high volume oil pump. Is there a chance it could suck the pan dry? I haven’t noticed any issues.
There should be no issue with what you are doing and perhaps a drain line from the front sump to the back sump. This prevents the wasted 1 quart sitting in the front sump not doing anything.
Thanks for your support of my channel Evan!
always great info mr ben. i have the same box in matte black, how bout some solid roller lifter stuff or maybe i missed one thank you for making this stuff
Thanks Roger and what brand are you using now and type?
Great video. Great info. Got me thinking. What if you rounded the leading edge of the counter weight offset away from the block webbing with a taper towards the web (sort of using the web as an additional scraper) and bevel the trailing edge toward the web. It would be interesting to see if it reduced the amount of oil in suspension.
All efforts to control the oil and windage losses will account for gains for sure! It is basically neglected except for a few cranks that are designed aero correct and they charge a lot of $$$!
I feel I made myself clear on the counterweight design and hope nobody got mad at me for pointing these things out on the counterweights.
David Vizard has a video on crank journal profiling that is similar to what you are describing
is it Callies that are the best?
I prefer Windberg if I can afford it.
I f you take any of my FE cranks, those guys knew what they were doing. They cast them to turn the correct way with the thin side cutting the air and oil right where it belongs., I made my scraper and I have a Canton pickup and a pan with trap doors and the scraper with the windage tray as part of the pan. The oil draining front and rear only has one place to go , into the sump.,with minimal air and effort. The oil pump drive rod is tapered ARP. And I really wish there was a way to run a rear sump pan. Like a front gilmer belt pump with a pipe running to the rear and into the rear of the pan with an A/N fitting into a Canton pickup into a rear sump pan and a second pipe into oil filter adapter with a screen filter and into the feed.
It is only a matter of fabrication.
Yes Chevy has the oil pump in the back, and Ford has it in the front,
But the Ford Distributor looks more beautiful.
I hate working on chevy engines when I use to change the points at the back! lol
@@benalamedaracing2765 yeap, That small job will Break your Back!. 🤪
should i get scrapper tigged the hole way?
Always use a scraper and clearance it close to .040 from rods to crank throws. Might need to elongate the bolt holes so you can move them closer!
👍
vacuum pump removes the air?
It removes the pressure buildup inside the block from blow by gases getting past the rings. Helps big time specially for racing engines.
Ha - so the Auburn / Cord is the best designed car.
The shape of the rear of the car:)
The rear does matter and if downforce is not an issue the better it is aero.
Why can't you just finish welding the scraper? Then there would be no gaps for the oil to go thru.
You need some kind of gap or else they will hit each other and debris will be all over the crank case.
@@benalamedaracing2765 I was talking about where the scraper is welded to the oil pan. They welded short sections spaced out leaving gaps where it wasn't welded. You demonstrated with brake clean how it would allow oil thru creating windage losses . If you were to weld the parts that were left unwelded, making a solid weld the length of the scraper, the oil would not pass thru the holes. It should then work similar to an oil pan with a stand out . Unless I misunderstood something
That would surely keep the oil from going through the gap. Be careful not to warp the pan though. Stitches 6 inches apart until its solid.
No
?
Yes