This is a great source of trouble for me. People trying to take other people's possessions for "God" is just wrong. I don't care if someone else has a lot or a little. Its theirs! Trying to equalize society by someone surrendering their goods to someone else is nonsense. Purify hearts and the people will know how to use their property and possessions for good, by themselves, without some institution inserting themselves.
"People trying to take other people's possessions for "God" is just wrong." The LDS propaganda machine asserts that the incident wherein Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon were tarred and feathered was an examp[le of them being "persecuted for their religious beliefs." In actual fact, it was THEIR OWN DISCIPLES who did that because of Smith's and Rigdon's attempts to have them turn over ownership of their farms to the church as part of their "United Order" scheme. To learn the whole story, I suggest watching the video titled "The Tar and Feathering of Joseph Smith | Mormonism LIVE! 093." Smith and Rigdon tried a similar plan in Missouri in 1838, and that got the Mormons booted out of that state.
@sisknothinbutruth2684 A good thought! Voluntarily helping others is God’s plan, but I don’t see why they couldn’t start to do that on their own, without churches, bishops, etc. Like Joseph implied, if people are forced to do it they’d end up worse off.
@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy! It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts. What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing? Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy! It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts. What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing? Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
Taking other people's property has been a principle of Mormonism from its very beginnings. A "revelation" that Joseph Smith produced, and published in his 1833 "Book of Commandments," read as follows: "'For it shall come to pass, that which I spake by the mouths of my prophets shall be fulfilled; for I will consecrate the riches of the Gentiles, unto my people which are of the house of Israel.' (BOC 44:32.) That "revelation" was the impetus for all of the Mormons' conflicts, including the 1857 Mountain Meadows massacre. David Whitmer explained why this "revelation" had enraged Missourians against the Mormon immigrants in 1833: "'In the spring of 1832, in Hiram, Ohio, Brothers Joseph and Sidney, and others, concluded that the revelations should be printed in a book. A few of the brethren -- including myself --objected to it seriously. We told them that if the revelations were published, the world would get the books, and it would not do; that it was not the will of the Lord that the revelations should be published. But Brothers Joseph and Sidney would not listen to us, and said they were going to send them to Independence to be published. I objected to it and withstood Brothers Joseph and Sidney to the face. Brother Joseph said as follows: 'Any man who objects to having these revelations published, shall have his part taken out of the Tree of Life and out of the Holy City.' "'The Spirit of God came upon me and I prophesied to them in the name of the Lord: "That if they sent those revelations to Independence to be published in a book, the people would come upon them and tear down the printing press, and the church would be driven out of Jackson county." Brothers Joseph and Sidney laughed at me. Early in the spring of 1833, at Independence, Mo., the revelations were printed in the Book of Commandments. Many of the books were finished and distributed among the members of the church, and through some of the unwise brethren, the world got hold of some of them. From that time the ill-feeling toward us began to increase; and in the summer of 1833 the mob came upon us, tore down the printing press, and drove the church out of Jackson county.' ("An Address to all Believers in Christ") Then-church historian John Whitmer explained how Smith's "revelation" caused their problems in Missouri: "After they [Smith's and Rigdon's "Danites"] had driven us and our families, they commenced a difficulty in Daviess County, adjoining this county, in which they began to rob and burn houses, etc. etc., took honey which they, (the Mormons) call sweet oil, and hogs which they call bear, and cattle which they called buffalo. Thus they would justify themselves by saying, "We are the people of God, and all things are God's; therefore, they are ours." (John Whitmer's "History of the Church") Here are other statements I compiled on this issue about 25 years ago: "When we first went to Daviess [County], I understood the object was to be to drive out the mob, if one should be collected there; but when we got there, WE FOUND NONE. I then learned, the object was, from those who were actively engaged in the matter, to DRIVE OUT ALL THE CITIZENS OF DAVIESS AND GET POSSESSION OF THEIR PROPERTY." (Testimony of John Cleminson, "Senate Document 189.") "The Danites were taught to take from the Gentiles and consecrate to the Church. Nearly every person who testified at the trial against the Mormon leaders made mention of this fact. John Clemenson stated that 'it was frequently observed among the troops at Diahman that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should be consecrated to the Saints.' Jeremiah Myers testified that 'the consecrated property...was dealt out to those in need' by Bishop Vinson Knight." (Leland Gentry, "A History of the Latter-Day Saints in Northern Missouri," p. 385-387.) "Danites struck at Gallatin and two other towns, Millport and Grinding Fork. The three onslaughts occurred simultaneously and had a crushing impact on the Missourians who were unaccustomed to Mormon resistance. When Captains Lyman Wight, David W. Patten, and Seymour Brunson rode into Far West at the head of their companies, the sight of wagonloads of plunder was offensive to a number of less aggressively inclined Saints. That night they gathered their families together and abandoned the settlement. Among the defectors were two of Joseph's most trusted followers, Thomas B. Marsh and Orson Hyde, both members of the Council of Twelve Apostles. The two men fled to nearby Richmond and blurted out everything they knew." ("Orrin Porter Rockwell: Man of God, Son of Thunder," Harold Schindler, p. 54.) "There was much mysterious conversation in camps, as to plundering, and house-burning; so much so, that I had my own notions about it; and, on one occasion, I spoke to Mr. Smith, Jr., in the house, and told him that this course of burning houses and plundering, by the Mormon troops, would ruin us; that it could not be kept hid, and would bring the force of the state upon us; that houses would be searched, and stolen property found. Smith replied to me, in a pretty rough manner, to keep still; that I should say nothing about it; that it would discourage the men...I saw a great deal of plunder and bee-steads brought into camp; and I saw many persons, for many days, taking the honey out of them; I understood this property and plunder were placed into the hands of the bishop at Diahmon....The general teachings of the presidency were, that the kingdom they were setting up was a temporal kingdom...that the time had come when this kingdom was to be set up by forcible means, if necessary. It was taught, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel." (Testimony of George M. Hinkle, "Senate Document 189".) "Smith replied, the time had come when he should resist all law...I heard J. Smith remark, there was a store at Gallatin, and a grocery at Millport; and in the morning after the conversation between Smith and Wight about resisting the law, a plan of operations was agreed on, which was: that Captain Fearnaught, who was present, should take a company of 100 men, or more, and go to Gallatin, and take it that day; to take the goods out of Gallatin, bring them to Diahmon, and burn the store...On the same day, in the evening, I saw both these companies return; the foot company had some plunder..." (Testimony of WW Phelps, "Senate Document 189") As the [stolen] property was brought in, there was a general shout of hurrah, and waving of hats, by those in camp. I heard Dimick Huntington, one of the troops, tell in camp that the mob had burned the storehouse in Gallatin, but that the Mormons had hauled off the goods; and, also, that the mob were burning some Mormon houses. I looked at him as though I did not believe it, and he stooped down to me (being on his horse) and whispered to me that it was Captain [Seymour] Brunson who had gone with twenty men to the Grindstone Fork, who was burning those houses. The goods taken in Gallatin were generally understood in camp to have been deposited with the bishop, as consecrated property." (Testimony of Reed Peck, "Senate Document 189") End quotes. So if you disagree with the idea of stealing other people's property, you are opposed to Joseph Smith's "revelations", policies, and orders.
@kevinrasmussen663 I don’t think you’re alone. But it seems that most people try to make some mishmash of philosophies or a cop-out like “communism will work when God does it,” rather than looking to see what Joseph said.
@@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy! It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts. What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing? Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
@@IBelieveJosephWell said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy! It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts. What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing? Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy! It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts. What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing? Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
I don't think socialism will work unless we have Jesus here running it . A prophet just can't pull it off . We didn't get along in the spirit world and we don't get along here . We're Jacob and Esau. And brothers and sisters don't get along . 1st samuel 15 is the False prophet Samuel telling Israel to kill the babies of their brothers the Amalikites Esau people. 2 samuel 8 is Samuel telling David to attack and make slaves out of Edom their brothers Esaus people and to attack both tribes of Lot nephew of Abraham and make them slaves . So good luck with this ever working we have each other
Not a bad point not only did he not force women to marry him it wasn’t for sex. because all but 1-2 were pregnant when they were married to JS. I got this info from Don Bradly research into early church history
“Thursday, 14. I attended a second lecture on Socialism, by Mr. Finch; and after he got through, I made a few remarks, alluding to Sidney Rigdon and Alexander Campbell getting up a community at Kirtland, and of the big fish there eating up all the little fish. I said I did not believe the doctrine.” -Joseph Smith, 14 September 1843
But is this really the system of the Book of Acts? A system where Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead for lying, when they claimed to have consecrated all, but held back some?
Good question. I don’t know if the Law of Consecration is what they were doing in Acts-neither the New Testament or Book of Mormon mention the believers being commanded by God to have “all things common.” As for A & S being struck dead, I’m not sure if that was the system, or them stealing what they had promised to give to God and then lying about it.
Whatever the wording of the first snippet of writing, ten percent tithe (before taxes) must be paid regularly in order to get a Temple Recommend, in order to perform the rites and rituals, in order to enter the highest level of heaven.....
@SaffronHammer I am talking about what Joseph Smith said. And Joseph Smith never talked about the scenario you lay out. It seems to have been invented after Joseph’s death, primarily by Brigham Young.
My mom said that words were changed the words in the endowment to make it more friendly and less aggressive but still gave the same information and meaning. Also are you part of the LDS church
The meaning, context, and actual covenants made are very different from the original endowment. One part you should be aware of is how they used to swear secret combinations style oaths and were under pain of death which would be conducted in the most painful and aggravating manner. This was in there through the 1900's until it was changed in 1990's by the church because of how many people were leaving the church. So to put it very mildly, our modern version is most definitely less aggressive! There has also been some key changes to wording that have most definitely changed overall meaning as well, and it is troubling that even aside from that, that they have you swear your allegiance and everything you have to the church. The reason why this is troubling is because that allegiance should be to Christ! If our allegiance is to Christ and we consecrate our lives to him, it would be natural then for us to serve and give of our time and money in His service to our fellow men. He would also help us to know where to put our time and effort and who we could best help. The reason I am concerned as well is because corruption can enter into any organization, and it has become evident that there is some degree of corruption among the Q15 and other GA's. Rebekah Griffin has a few good videos on this. I also think that many of the ordinances in the church are rushed and are not given their proper reverence, especially say in the temple where we are supposed to be doing the most important ordinances. We should treat it as such, and treat them as though the ordinances actually were important. I personally do not believe that our temple ordinances are efficacious, both because of the Condemnation that came on the Church on 1832(D&C 84), as well as the promise of what would happen if we did not finish the Nauvoo temple(D&C 124:31-32). It was never completed, we did not receive the fullness of the priesthood, and it can be observed that Brigham Young was even trying to sell the Nauvoo temple at the time that they had dedicated rooms in the temple because it was not complete. He had posted a notice in the local newspaper for this, which was almost taken up by the local Catholic church, but fell through. This is while they were doing ordinances in there as well. Rob Fatheringham, as well as Hemlock Knots have a video covering this. I also do not believe that our current ordinances are from God, especially considering their origins in Free Masonry with only a few changes, but keeping pretty much the same signs and tokens. My focus is now on my relationship with Christ and following Him wherever He leads me and on understanding and applying the scriptures. I very much do still believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God and to be truthful! I had already been gaining a testimony of it by deeply studying it and being led by the Lord in my studying, by applying it and taking God at His word, then watching as God did as He said He would, and then also by praying to know for myself to receive a witness from God if it was true or not. Going back to temples. I have heard people such as Denver Snuffer talk about the temple ordinances in the scriptures such as the prayer circle in 3rd Nephi 19. If this was the case, they are performed in a different manner without all the other things, with the focus on Christ and our relationship with Him. In our temples the focus is much more on the church and our relationship with the church than it is on Christ. I think we also have a very heavy emphasis to an unhealthy degree on outward appearances which then allows all sorts of bad situations. What are your thoughts? I believe Joseph has probably done more research into what you were asking, so hopefully he responds. This is just what I have found in my searching on the matter. As to if He is a member, the interview done last week on the Clarity Podcast was with the guy that runs the channel where explained that. I would highly recommend watching it! I also would highly recommend to remember to pray always, to study diligently, and to let Christ lead! May God bles you according to your needs and help shape your desires and wants to what He wants for you! I am rooting for you, and I know He is too! In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
@@TrustinChrist-truthseeker First the temple has always been about Christ relationship to us that goes with sealings and the endowment. The endowment is a drama version of the plan of salvation. Otherwise known as God and Christ Plan. Those tokens you mentioned are mentioned in Acts 1:3 and secondly Masons all said that they got their ceremony from the teachings of Paul and that over time it changed. And those verses do condemn the saints but they don’t say that the restoration and all the keys of the priesthood didn’t happen they did JS said they did.
@@Spark_Horizion This is what Acts 1:3 is saying in its actual context. Also I must apologize, and I have changed my earlier statement to reflect this, but the Endowment has received massive changes. I have learned that I shouldn't write comments at 1:00 in the morning! "1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." To take it as a reference to the tokens is to take it out of context. Considering the context, it is most likely talking about the nail prints, the wound in his side, and his resurrection. These are proofs that He did what He said He would and fulfilled the prophecies concerning his life, death, and resurrection. These same proofs are shown to the Nephites as well, and again, nowhere is it mentioned that there were secret signs associated with them. It was simply him showing himself as being who he said He was, and showing that the prophecies concerning His life were fulfilled. Being shown these signs and knowing for certain that He was who He said He is, He sent His apostles and disciples in both cases to bear testimony of Him to the world. In the case that we were showing those signs to Him at the last day as a testimony of our lives, why would we be needing to show Him, as our lives are recorded in every fiber of our being and He knows us perfectly? These signs and tokens are never talked about in the scriptures as being required at the last day, as those tokens are Christ's alone, and we are recipients of what He did. Those infallible proofs mentioned in the context of Acts and before are also different than the ones in the endowment. In the case of the new names, every recorded case in the Bible where they are given, those people are then just simply known by that name and it is a sign that He has chosen them, and called them to be witnesses of Him to the world. It is a sign of a special covenant He has made with them for the benefit of God's children, and those that are renamed are very much the exception and is not a common occurrence. Those names are not secret, but instead are the names they become known by to the world and their posterity. Going back to the infallible proofs, it does not say anything about those infallible proofs being required to get into heaven, as well as it does not address why our current temple endowments required oaths of throat slitting, disembowelment, etc. for the revealing of these things. This is striking because God has specifically said that He does not work in secret, in darkness, nor in secret combinations. Also, if these ordinances are so important and essential to our salvation and stay the same, why have they been changed in such massive ways that very much not only alter the meaning of things, but also have changed the context of things, and even the covenants made in the ceremony? God has said over and over again throughout the Old and New Testament and through the Book of Mormon that He does not change, his words do not change, His gospel and the way in which we are saved stays the same, He does not turn to the left or the right but His course is straight before Him and is one eternal round, so why then has there been such massive changes to the endowment in both substance, wording, and covenants made? If you go through the pre-1996 endowment, on top of still having those penalty paths in there, Lucifer has his own black apron on in the garden and gives this explanation of what it is: "LUCIFER: It is an emblem of my power and Priesthoods. ADAM: Priesthoods? LUCIFER: Yes, Priesthoods" When the gods are returning, Lucifer told them: "ADAM: I hear their voices, they are coming. LUCIFER: See, you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide! ADAM: Come, let us hide. NARRATOR: Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons." Lucifer himself is telling them to put on aprons, just like he has on. Are we then putting on the emblem of his priesthood, and this over the garments we already are wearing that are supposed to represent the covering of our nakedness, and Christ atonement covering us? This same apron is the one we carry with us throughout the entire endowment process, and into God's presence. Also notice that Lucifer was the one that instructed us to put on the apron. What would that mean about it's meaning? Again this already is a more tame version of the 1800's edition, where blood atonement was a standard part of the ceremony. Again are the oaths required of you say in the pre-1996 edition not reminiscent of the oaths made by secret combinations to not reveal their order under pain of death in the most aggravating manner? We know this is the case as it is very clear in the Book of Mormon and Bible what sorts of oaths they swear. Much of the latter part of Alma going from Alma 37 then skipping to Alma 43 then onward through the Book of Helaman into 3 Nephi. Then there is Ether 8. In the Bible we find this with Cain and Lamech in Genesis. For now I think this sufficient. What are your thoughts? I hope this helps, and it is good to have these sorts of discussions, as it very quickly at least for me makes me realize when I have a weak argument and should do more research and study on the matter. As one of my friends had said, we should be making intellectually honest arguments, not just making a case based on emotions. If something is true, it will stand scrutiny and the test of time. We should then prayerfully and carefully study it out, and make sure to be thorough in our searching, and to make sure we are grounded in Christ, and letting Him lead us. I wish you the best of luck, and that our Lord Jesus Christ will help you in your own journey as He has been helping the rest of us! Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
@@Spark_Horizion As to the second part of your response, I will give my response later when I have time and to cover whether or not we still have that authority, and if not what to do then. One thing most people in the church are not aware of is that the same healings and blessings given in priesthood blessings, are also done outside the church by true Christians, doing them in the name of Christ, that have the same if not greater effect without our priesthood authority and cause people to rejoice in the goodness of God and in His mercy through His son on the Children of men. Just a thought. We have many, many books of such experiences, and know from personal experience that there is very real power in the name of Christ, and by speaking as directed by the Holy Ghost. Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
@@Spark_Horizion This is what Acts 1:3 is saying in its actual context. Also I must apologize, and I have changed my earlier statement to reflect this, but the Endowment has received massive changes. I have learned that I shouldn't write comments at 1:00 in the morning! "1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." To take it as a reference to the tokens is to take it out of context. Considering the context, it is most likely talking about the nail prints, the wound in his side, and his resurrection. These are proofs that He did what He said He would and fulfilled the prophecies concerning his life, death, and resurrection. These same proofs are shown to the Nephites as well, and again, nowhere is it mentioned that there were secret signs associated with them. It was simply him showing himself as being who he said He was, and showing that the prophecies concerning His life were fulfilled. Being shown these signs and knowing for certain that He was who He said He is, He sent His apostles and disciples in both cases to bear testimony of Him to the world. In the case that we were showing those signs to Him at the last day as a testimony of our lives, why would we be needing to show Him, as our lives are recorded in every fiber of our being and He knows us perfectly? These signs and tokens are never talked about in the scriptures as being required at the last day, as those tokens are Christ's alone, and we are recipients of what He did. Those infallible proofs mentioned in the context of Acts and before are also different than the ones in the endowment. In the case of the new names, every recorded case in the Bible where they are given, those people are then just simply known by that name and it is a sign that He has chosen them, and called them to be witnesses of Him to the world. It is a sign of a special covenant He has made with them for the benefit of God's children, and those that are renamed are very much the exception and is not a common occurrence. Those names are not secret, but instead are the names they become known by to the world and their posterity. Going back to the infallible proofs, it does not say anything about those infallible proofs being required to get into heaven, as well as it does not address why our current temple endowments required oaths of throat slitting, disembowelment, etc. for the revealing of these things. This is striking because God has specifically said that He does not work in secret, in darkness, nor in secret combinations. Also, if these ordinances are so important and essential to our salvation and stay the same, why have they been changed in such massive ways that very much not only alter the meaning of things, but also have changed the context of things, and even the covenants made in the ceremony? God has said over and over again throughout the Old and New Testament and through the Book of Mormon that He does not change, his words do not change, His gospel and the way in which we are saved stays the same, He does not turn to the left or the right but His course is straight before Him and is one eternal round, so why then has there been such massive changes to the endowment in both substance, wording, and covenants made? If you go through the pre-1996 endowment, on top of still having those penalty paths in there, Lucifer has his own black apron on in the garden and gives this explanation of what it is: "LUCIFER: It is an emblem of my power and Priesthoods. ADAM: Priesthoods? LUCIFER: Yes, Priesthoods" When the gods are returning, Lucifer told them: "ADAM: I hear their voices, they are coming. LUCIFER: See, you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide! ADAM: Come, let us hide. NARRATOR: Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons." Lucifer himself is telling them to put on aprons, just like he has on. Are we then putting on the emblem of his priesthood, and this over the garments we already are wearing that are supposed to represent the covering of our nakedness, and Christ atonement covering us? This same apron is the one we carry with us throughout the entire endowment process, and into God's presence. Also notice that Lucifer was the one that instructed us to put on the apron. What would that mean about it's meaning? Again this already is a more tame version of the 1800's edition, where blood atonement was a standard part of the ceremony. Again are the oaths required of you say in the pre-1996 edition not reminiscent of the oaths made by secret combinations to not reveal their order under pain of death in the most aggravating manner? We know this is the case as it is very clear in the Book of Mormon and Bible what sorts of oaths they swear. Much of the latter part of Alma going from Alma 37 then skipping to Alma 43 then onward through the Book of Helaman into 3 Nephi. Then there is Ether 8. In the Bible we find this with Cain and Lamech in Genesis. For now I think this sufficient. What are your thoughts? I hope this helps, and it is good to have these sorts of discussions, as it very quickly at least for me makes me realize when I have a weak argument and should do more research and study on the matter. As one of my friends had said, we should be making intellectually honest arguments, not just making a case based on emotions. If something is true, it will stand scrutiny and the test of time. We should then prayerfully and carefully study it out, and make sure to be thorough in our searching, and to make sure we are grounded in Christ, and letting Him lead us. I wish you the best of luck, and that our Lord Jesus Christ will help you in your own journey as He has been helping the rest of us! Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
Perhaps not. I don’t know what things will be like after Jesus comes back. In the present, it’s impossible to have much more than a subsistence barter economy without money, as money is a way to store value across time that allows people to plan and execute long-term economic action.
@@IBelieveJoseph Well sure. The reason we store value in money is because our "value" is misplaced. We value things and expansion rather than people and meaning. The Nemenhah Records say that after Christ visited them, once a community reached 1,000 families, they split to form another community elsewhere. It's almost as if the Telestial realm that we inhabit was only meant for such living, while waiting for a perfected King to lead us to a new millennium of Terrestrial living.
@TureRealD I think that you’re conflating economic value and moral/spiritual value. Anyway, not only is money a store of economic value across time, it also enables economic calculation because things can be measured by price. Without money, there are no prices. Without prices, there’s no way to measure the demand for a product or service. Without a way to measure the demand, there’s no way to tell how much to produce. Over- and underproduction, followed by economic stagnation and/or collapse are the result. Smaller communities that don’t use money doesn’t solve the problem, because that destroys their ability to cooperate economically, because facilitating economic cooperation is something else that money does. Maybe Jesus will be able to institute a new kind of system. But saying that money is bad so we just won’t use it is wishful thinking.
Everything described in this video explains consecration, but does nothing to show how it differs from Communism. In fact "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a Marxist slogan, not an LDS one. It seems like the maker of this video has done very little reading of Marx and instead relies solely how other people have attempted to implement Communism over time. Communism is also supposed to be a voluntary system. That when things get so bad it becomes self evident that the best path is to share all things in common; the people rise up against their oppressors and implement the system for themselves voluntarily. Furthermore, quoting one Austrian school economist saying that holding things in common doesn't work does very little to explain communism at all. Harden who coined the 'tragedy of the commons' concept actually argued that things could be held in common through strict regulation of common property, though he is often misquoted saying he was against common property. I'm not saying either system works, but what I am saying is that arguing consecration isn't the colloquial communism isn't novel at all. However, one would be hard pressed to find differences between what Joseph Smith and Karl Marx actually wrote which is probably why the maker of this video doesn't even attempt to cover Marx at all.
@landon4278 I’m sorry comrade, but you seem to have misunderstood the purpose of the video. I explained the misconceptions of the Law of Consecration by examining what Joseph Smith actually taught and contrasting them with commonly held beliefs about them. A review of Marx’s writings was never my goal. I also note that what Marx may or may not have meant, or how communism is “supposed” to work matters very little and is a “no true Scotsman” (or in this case, “not real communism) fallacy in the matter at hand.
Saying that people can have private property under communism is like saying that black people could be free in antebellum America-technically true, but very misleading. I didn’t dive deeply into communist ideas because that’s not the point of the video. I wanted to focus on something that can actually work.
@@IBelieveJoseph You mean something like asking for 'Muirica to explain what communism is... Or Asking McDonalds why Whopper is such a good hamburger... Please keep in mind where You get the informations from...
I would point to His interview on the Clarity Podcast. I think you made an assumption that is not correct, because He grew up as a very faithful LDS guy who later had questions and started to be much more serious in researching our Church History. I would also point to how different his approach is from say Randy Jordan who likes to comment on these videos, who appears to want to squash through historical evidence any faith in the church as well as in anything related to it. That is what I have been able to gather from reading his comments. If you carefully watch the videos, you would see I Believe Joseph is simply trying to figure what is true, and what to keep and what discard from the church. We are not interested in keeping falsehoods and lies! We are trying to be based in Christ, which of necessity means we need to be based in truth, and to be serious, diligent seekers of the truth and to let Him guide. We are trying to get closer to Him, and we are told that no unclean thing can enter His presence. This channel as well as others like it are a call for the Latter Saints to more seriously examine the foundation on which they stand and build on and to help encourage them in following Jesus Christ, and to build on a foundation of truth, faith, and honesty and to follow Him in humility and to be filled with His perfect love. I hope this helps! Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ, JS
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This is a great source of trouble for me. People trying to take other people's possessions for "God" is just wrong. I don't care if someone else has a lot or a little. Its theirs! Trying to equalize society by someone surrendering their goods to someone else is nonsense. Purify hearts and the people will know how to use their property and possessions for good, by themselves, without some institution inserting themselves.
"People trying to take other people's possessions for "God" is just wrong."
The LDS propaganda machine asserts that the incident wherein Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon were tarred and feathered was an examp[le of them being "persecuted for their religious beliefs." In actual fact, it was THEIR OWN DISCIPLES who did that because of Smith's and Rigdon's attempts to have them turn over ownership of their farms to the church as part of their "United Order" scheme.
To learn the whole story, I suggest watching the video titled "The Tar and Feathering of Joseph Smith | Mormonism LIVE! 093."
Smith and Rigdon tried a similar plan in Missouri in 1838, and that got the Mormons booted out of that state.
@sisknothinbutruth2684 A good thought! Voluntarily helping others is God’s plan, but I don’t see why they couldn’t start to do that on their own, without churches, bishops, etc. Like Joseph implied, if people are forced to do it they’d end up worse off.
@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy!
It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts.
What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing?
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy!
It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts.
What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing?
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
Taking other people's property has been a principle of Mormonism from its very beginnings. A "revelation" that Joseph Smith produced, and published in his 1833 "Book of Commandments," read as follows:
"'For it shall come to pass, that which I spake by the mouths of my prophets shall be fulfilled; for I will consecrate the riches of the Gentiles, unto my people which are of the house of Israel.' (BOC 44:32.)
That "revelation" was the impetus for all of the Mormons' conflicts, including the 1857 Mountain Meadows massacre.
David Whitmer explained why this "revelation" had enraged Missourians against the Mormon immigrants in 1833:
"'In the spring of 1832, in Hiram, Ohio, Brothers Joseph and Sidney, and others, concluded that the revelations should be printed in a book. A few of the brethren -- including myself --objected to it seriously. We told them that if the revelations were published, the world would get the books, and it would not do; that it was not the will of the Lord that the revelations should be published. But Brothers Joseph and Sidney would not listen to us, and said they were going to send them to Independence to be published. I objected to it and withstood Brothers Joseph and Sidney to the face. Brother Joseph said as follows: 'Any man who objects to having these revelations published, shall have his part taken out of the Tree of Life and out of the Holy City.'
"'The Spirit of God came upon me and I prophesied to them in the name of the Lord: "That if they sent those revelations to Independence to be published in a book, the people would come upon them and tear down the printing press, and the church would be driven out of Jackson county." Brothers Joseph and Sidney laughed at me. Early in the spring of 1833, at Independence, Mo., the revelations were printed in the Book of Commandments. Many of the books were finished and distributed among the members of the church, and through some of the unwise brethren, the world got hold of some of them. From that time the ill-feeling toward us began to increase; and in the summer of 1833 the mob came upon us, tore down the printing press, and drove the church out of Jackson county.' ("An Address to all Believers in Christ")
Then-church historian John Whitmer explained how Smith's "revelation" caused their problems in Missouri:
"After they [Smith's and Rigdon's "Danites"] had driven us and our families, they commenced a difficulty in Daviess County, adjoining this county, in which they began to rob and burn houses, etc. etc., took honey which they, (the Mormons) call sweet oil, and hogs which they call bear, and cattle which they called buffalo. Thus they would justify themselves by saying, "We are the people of God, and all things are God's; therefore, they are ours." (John Whitmer's "History of the Church")
Here are other statements I compiled on this issue about 25 years ago:
"When we first went to Daviess [County], I understood the object was to be to
drive out the mob, if one should be collected there; but when we got there, WE
FOUND NONE. I then learned, the object was, from those who were actively
engaged in the matter, to DRIVE OUT ALL THE CITIZENS OF DAVIESS AND GET
POSSESSION OF THEIR PROPERTY." (Testimony of John Cleminson, "Senate Document
189.")
"The Danites were
taught to take from the Gentiles and consecrate to the Church. Nearly every
person who testified at the trial against the Mormon leaders made mention of
this fact. John Clemenson stated that 'it was frequently observed among the
troops at Diahman that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should
be consecrated to the Saints.' Jeremiah Myers testified that 'the consecrated
property...was dealt out to those in need' by Bishop Vinson Knight." (Leland
Gentry, "A History of the Latter-Day Saints in Northern Missouri," p. 385-387.)
"Danites struck at Gallatin and two other towns, Millport and Grinding Fork.
The three onslaughts occurred simultaneously and had a crushing impact on the
Missourians who were unaccustomed to Mormon resistance. When Captains Lyman
Wight, David W. Patten, and Seymour Brunson rode into Far West at the head of
their companies, the sight of wagonloads of plunder was offensive to a number
of less aggressively inclined Saints. That night they gathered their families
together and abandoned the settlement. Among the defectors were two of
Joseph's most trusted followers, Thomas B. Marsh and Orson Hyde, both members
of the Council of Twelve Apostles. The two men fled to nearby Richmond and
blurted out everything they knew." ("Orrin Porter Rockwell: Man of God, Son of
Thunder," Harold Schindler, p. 54.)
"There was much mysterious conversation in camps, as to plundering, and
house-burning; so much so, that I had my own notions about it; and, on one
occasion, I spoke to Mr. Smith, Jr., in the house, and told him that this
course of burning houses and plundering, by the Mormon troops, would ruin us;
that it could not be kept hid, and would bring the force of the state upon us;
that houses would be searched, and stolen property found. Smith replied to me,
in a pretty rough manner, to keep still; that I should say nothing about it;
that it would discourage the men...I saw a great deal of plunder and bee-steads
brought into camp; and I saw many persons, for many days, taking the honey out
of them; I understood this property and plunder were placed into the hands of
the bishop at Diahmon....The general teachings of the presidency were, that the
kingdom they were setting up was a temporal kingdom...that the time had come
when this kingdom was to be set up by
forcible means, if necessary. It was taught, that the time had come when the
riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel."
(Testimony of George M. Hinkle, "Senate Document 189".)
"Smith replied, the time had come when he should resist all law...I heard J.
Smith remark, there was a store at Gallatin, and a grocery at Millport; and in
the morning after the conversation between Smith and Wight about resisting the
law, a plan of operations was agreed on, which was: that Captain Fearnaught,
who was present, should take a company of 100 men, or more, and go to Gallatin,
and take it that day; to take the goods out of Gallatin, bring them to Diahmon,
and burn the store...On the same day, in the evening, I saw both these
companies return; the foot company had some plunder..." (Testimony of WW
Phelps, "Senate Document 189")
As the [stolen] property was brought in, there was a general shout of hurrah,
and waving of hats, by those in camp. I heard Dimick Huntington, one of the
troops, tell in camp that the mob had burned the storehouse in Gallatin, but
that the Mormons had hauled off the goods; and, also, that the mob were burning
some Mormon houses. I looked at him as though I did not believe it, and he
stooped down to me (being on his horse) and whispered to me that it was Captain
[Seymour] Brunson who had gone with twenty men to the Grindstone Fork, who was
burning those houses. The goods taken in Gallatin were generally understood in
camp to have been deposited with the bishop, as consecrated property."
(Testimony of Reed Peck, "Senate Document 189")
End quotes. So if you disagree with the idea of stealing other people's property, you are opposed to Joseph Smith's "revelations", policies, and orders.
It is so refreshing to hear the doctrine as it was meant to be..and God delivered it to a true prophet..
Thanks! I’m trying to get Joseph’s words out there.
Great podcast!! 👍♥️
Thank you, Cheryl!
Just want to say you're doing a good work here. I know the research and creation of videos are noth time-consuming. It is appreciated, though.
Thank you! That means a lot.
THIS MAKES SENSE! I have wrestled with the conventional interpretation vs economic realities
@kevinrasmussen663 I don’t think you’re alone. But it seems that most people try to make some mishmash of philosophies or a cop-out like “communism will work when God does it,” rather than looking to see what Joseph said.
@@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy!
It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts.
What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing?
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
@@IBelieveJosephWell said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy!
It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts.
What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing?
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
@IBelieveJoseph Well said! I think there is so much of the D&C most people are not literate in or just straight up ignore. One I have been trying to work through is the Word of Wisdom. My understanding from studying it is to be wise with what we put in our bodies and the warning about wicked and conspiring men tampering with our foods and other things we put in and on our bodies. The part I am not sure on which I think may have been in part error is the call to eat lots of grains and which ones for which animals. Grains can be good nutritionally, but there is a limit and our conventionally raised ones especially like with wheat and corn are a far cry from what they may have been, and also loaded with all sorts of nasty pesticides, herbicides, etc. It talks about how grains are to be the staff of life. I have concerns about that from a nutritional standpoint. I am also still not entirely sure on the meat, especially really good grass fed and finished, local farm raiseed, ethical beef, pork, chicken, etc. For the animals as far as I understand, they do much better not on grains. Grains are used in factory farms to get cows and such fatter faster, but also decreases the quality of meat, milk, and life quality of the animals and of those who consume them. That is not saying that I do not think it is good to eat our food, especially animals with thanksgiving! I think we should, and to thank Him constantly for all the amazing things He made to help us be healthy!
It is also funny to me how we claim to adhere to the word of wisdom so tightly and require it as part of temple interviews, but then actually ignore the overall message of it and what it actually says! It gives me a chuckle, but also concerns me because they base that on a pharisaical interpretation of it. We pray over our donuts, our sugary drinks(Sodas, carbonated drinks,etc), our other unhealthy snacks which are offered at church events and then wonder why we are so sick, fat, and unhealthy? We skip coffee, green tea, other teas, alcohol, not because of the actual nutritional facts, but because we adhere to the pharisaical interpretation of it put out by the church. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol, but instead to be wise about what we put in our bodies! We should also be aware that most, if not all fermented foods have some level of alcohol in them which is a normal part of the fermentation process, and can contain levels similar to beer and say a homemade wine at around 5% alcohol. They also contain good bacterial cultures and are commonly used for replenishing gut bacteria. Ones such as Kefir, Water Kefir, Kombucha, Yogurts, etc. It is also one of the only ways to get good herbal extractions and the alcohol per serving is in such small amounts that is largely inconsequential unless it is ingested in large amounts.
What are your thoughts? Have you seen anything I might be missing?
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
This was the saying that led some to believe that wives were among those "things" they had in common... as if women are things and property! Ugh
Oh this is a great point!
Interesting.
Your explanation coincides with Jacob 2:17
I don't think socialism will work unless we have Jesus here running it . A prophet just can't pull it off . We didn't get along in the spirit world and we don't get along here . We're Jacob and Esau. And brothers and sisters don't get along . 1st samuel 15 is the False prophet Samuel telling Israel to kill the babies of their brothers the Amalikites Esau people. 2 samuel 8 is Samuel telling David to attack and make slaves out of Edom their brothers Esaus people and to attack both tribes of Lot nephew of Abraham and make them slaves . So good luck with this ever working we have each other
Disgustingly enough.... I've heard that too🤦♀️. Only from self proclaimed prophetic members though, not the uppers. People are out of their minds
Not a bad point not only did he not force women to marry him it wasn’t for sex. because all but 1-2 were pregnant when they were married to JS. I got this info from Don Bradly research into early church history
“Thursday, 14. I attended a second lecture on Socialism, by Mr. Finch; and after he got through, I made a few remarks, alluding to Sidney Rigdon and Alexander Campbell getting up a community at Kirtland, and of the big fish there eating up all the little fish. I said I did not believe the doctrine.”
-Joseph Smith, 14 September 1843
Nice!
But is this really the system of the Book of Acts? A system where Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead for lying, when they claimed to have consecrated all, but held back some?
Good question. I don’t know if the Law of Consecration is what they were doing in Acts-neither the New Testament or Book of Mormon mention the believers being commanded by God to have “all things common.” As for A & S being struck dead, I’m not sure if that was the system, or them stealing what they had promised to give to God and then lying about it.
Whatever the wording of the first snippet of writing, ten percent tithe (before taxes) must be paid regularly in order to get a Temple Recommend, in order to perform the rites and rituals, in order to enter the highest level of heaven.....
@SaffronHammer I am talking about what Joseph Smith said. And Joseph Smith never talked about the scenario you lay out. It seems to have been invented after Joseph’s death, primarily by Brigham Young.
My mom said that words were changed the words in the endowment to make it more friendly and less aggressive but still gave the same information and meaning. Also are you part of the LDS church
The meaning, context, and actual covenants made are very different from the original endowment. One part you should be aware of is how they used to swear secret combinations style oaths and were under pain of death which would be conducted in the most painful and aggravating manner. This was in there through the 1900's until it was changed in 1990's by the church because of how many people were leaving the church. So to put it very mildly, our modern version is most definitely less aggressive! There has also been some key changes to wording that have most definitely changed overall meaning as well, and it is troubling that even aside from that, that they have you swear your allegiance and everything you have to the church. The reason why this is troubling is because that allegiance should be to Christ! If our allegiance is to Christ and we consecrate our lives to him, it would be natural then for us to serve and give of our time and money in His service to our fellow men. He would also help us to know where to put our time and effort and who we could best help. The reason I am concerned as well is because corruption can enter into any organization, and it has become evident that there is some degree of corruption among the Q15 and other GA's. Rebekah Griffin has a few good videos on this. I also think that many of the ordinances in the church are rushed and are not given their proper reverence, especially say in the temple where we are supposed to be doing the most important ordinances. We should treat it as such, and treat them as though the ordinances actually were important.
I personally do not believe that our temple ordinances are efficacious, both because of the Condemnation that came on the Church on 1832(D&C 84), as well as the promise of what would happen if we did not finish the Nauvoo temple(D&C 124:31-32). It was never completed, we did not receive the fullness of the priesthood, and it can be observed that Brigham Young was even trying to sell the Nauvoo temple at the time that they had dedicated rooms in the temple because it was not complete. He had posted a notice in the local newspaper for this, which was almost taken up by the local Catholic church, but fell through. This is while they were doing ordinances in there as well. Rob Fatheringham, as well as Hemlock Knots have a video covering this. I also do not believe that our current ordinances are from God, especially considering their origins in Free Masonry with only a few changes, but keeping pretty much the same signs and tokens. My focus is now on my relationship with Christ and following Him wherever He leads me and on understanding and applying the scriptures. I very much do still believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God and to be truthful! I had already been gaining a testimony of it by deeply studying it and being led by the Lord in my studying, by applying it and taking God at His word, then watching as God did as He said He would, and then also by praying to know for myself to receive a witness from God if it was true or not.
Going back to temples.
I have heard people such as Denver Snuffer talk about the temple ordinances in the scriptures such as the prayer circle in 3rd Nephi 19. If this was the case, they are performed in a different manner without all the other things, with the focus on Christ and our relationship with Him. In our temples the focus is much more on the church and our relationship with the church than it is on Christ. I think we also have a very heavy emphasis to an unhealthy degree on outward appearances which then allows all sorts of bad situations. What are your thoughts? I believe Joseph has probably done more research into what you were asking, so hopefully he responds. This is just what I have found in my searching on the matter.
As to if He is a member, the interview done last week on the Clarity Podcast was with the guy that runs the channel where explained that. I would highly recommend watching it! I also would highly recommend to remember to pray always, to study diligently, and to let Christ lead! May God bles you according to your needs and help shape your desires and wants to what He wants for you! I am rooting for you, and I know He is too!
In the name of Jesus Christ,
Amen.
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
@@TrustinChrist-truthseeker First the temple has always been about Christ relationship to us that goes with sealings and the endowment. The endowment is a drama version of the plan of salvation. Otherwise known as God and Christ Plan. Those tokens you mentioned are mentioned in Acts 1:3 and secondly Masons all said that they got their ceremony from the teachings of Paul and that over time it changed. And those verses do condemn the saints but they don’t say that the restoration and all the keys of the priesthood didn’t happen they did JS said they did.
@@Spark_Horizion This is what Acts 1:3 is saying in its actual context. Also I must apologize, and I have changed my earlier statement to reflect this, but the Endowment has received massive changes. I have learned that I shouldn't write comments at 1:00 in the morning!
"1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
To take it as a reference to the tokens is to take it out of context. Considering the context, it is most likely talking about the nail prints, the wound in his side, and his resurrection. These are proofs that He did what He said He would and fulfilled the prophecies concerning his life, death, and resurrection. These same proofs are shown to the Nephites as well, and again, nowhere is it mentioned that there were secret signs associated with them. It was simply him showing himself as being who he said He was, and showing that the prophecies concerning His life were fulfilled. Being shown these signs and knowing for certain that He was who He said He is, He sent His apostles and disciples in both cases to bear testimony of Him to the world. In the case that we were showing those signs to Him at the last day as a testimony of our lives, why would we be needing to show Him, as our lives are recorded in every fiber of our being and He knows us perfectly? These signs and tokens are never talked about in the scriptures as being required at the last day, as those tokens are Christ's alone, and we are recipients of what He did. Those infallible proofs mentioned in the context of Acts and before are also different than the ones in the endowment. In the case of the new names, every recorded case in the Bible where they are given, those people are then just simply known by that name and it is a sign that He has chosen them, and called them to be witnesses of Him to the world. It is a sign of a special covenant He has made with them for the benefit of God's children, and those that are renamed are very much the exception and is not a common occurrence. Those names are not secret, but instead are the names they become known by to the world and their posterity. Going back to the infallible proofs, it does not say anything about those infallible proofs being required to get into heaven, as well as it does not address why our current temple endowments required oaths of throat slitting, disembowelment, etc. for the revealing of these things. This is striking because God has specifically said that He does not work in secret, in darkness, nor in secret combinations. Also, if these ordinances are so important and essential to our salvation and stay the same, why have they been changed in such massive ways that very much not only alter the meaning of things, but also have changed the context of things, and even the covenants made in the ceremony? God has said over and over again throughout the Old and New Testament and through the Book of Mormon that He does not change, his words do not change, His gospel and the way in which we are saved stays the same, He does not turn to the left or the right but His course is straight before Him and is one eternal round, so why then has there been such massive changes to the endowment in both substance, wording, and covenants made?
If you go through the pre-1996 endowment, on top of still having those penalty paths in there, Lucifer has his own black apron on in the garden and gives this explanation of what it is:
"LUCIFER: It is an emblem of my power and Priesthoods.
ADAM: Priesthoods?
LUCIFER: Yes, Priesthoods"
When the gods are returning, Lucifer told them:
"ADAM: I hear their voices, they are coming.
LUCIFER: See, you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide!
ADAM: Come, let us hide.
NARRATOR: Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons."
Lucifer himself is telling them to put on aprons, just like he has on. Are we then putting on the emblem of his priesthood, and this over the garments we already are wearing that are supposed to represent the covering of our nakedness, and Christ atonement covering us? This same apron is the one we carry with us throughout the entire endowment process, and into God's presence. Also notice that Lucifer was the one that instructed us to put on the apron. What would that mean about it's meaning? Again this already is a more tame version of the 1800's edition, where blood atonement was a standard part of the ceremony. Again are the oaths required of you say in the pre-1996 edition not reminiscent of the oaths made by secret combinations to not reveal their order under pain of death in the most aggravating manner? We know this is the case as it is very clear in the Book of Mormon and Bible what sorts of oaths they swear. Much of the latter part of Alma going from Alma 37 then skipping to Alma 43 then onward through the Book of Helaman into 3 Nephi. Then there is Ether 8. In the Bible we find this with Cain and Lamech in Genesis.
For now I think this sufficient. What are your thoughts? I hope this helps, and it is good to have these sorts of discussions, as it very quickly at least for me makes me realize when I have a weak argument and should do more research and study on the matter. As one of my friends had said, we should be making intellectually honest arguments, not just making a case based on emotions. If something is true, it will stand scrutiny and the test of time. We should then prayerfully and carefully study it out, and make sure to be thorough in our searching, and to make sure we are grounded in Christ, and letting Him lead us.
I wish you the best of luck, and that our Lord Jesus Christ will help you in your own journey as He has been helping the rest of us!
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
@@Spark_Horizion As to the second part of your response, I will give my response later when I have time and to cover whether or not we still have that authority, and if not what to do then. One thing most people in the church are not aware of is that the same healings and blessings given in priesthood blessings, are also done outside the church by true Christians, doing them in the name of Christ, that have the same if not greater effect without our priesthood authority and cause people to rejoice in the goodness of God and in His mercy through His son on the Children of men. Just a thought. We have many, many books of such experiences, and know from personal experience that there is very real power in the name of Christ, and by speaking as directed by the Holy Ghost.
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
@@Spark_Horizion This is what Acts 1:3 is saying in its actual context. Also I must apologize, and I have changed my earlier statement to reflect this, but the Endowment has received massive changes. I have learned that I shouldn't write comments at 1:00 in the morning!
"1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
To take it as a reference to the tokens is to take it out of context. Considering the context, it is most likely talking about the nail prints, the wound in his side, and his resurrection. These are proofs that He did what He said He would and fulfilled the prophecies concerning his life, death, and resurrection. These same proofs are shown to the Nephites as well, and again, nowhere is it mentioned that there were secret signs associated with them. It was simply him showing himself as being who he said He was, and showing that the prophecies concerning His life were fulfilled. Being shown these signs and knowing for certain that He was who He said He is, He sent His apostles and disciples in both cases to bear testimony of Him to the world. In the case that we were showing those signs to Him at the last day as a testimony of our lives, why would we be needing to show Him, as our lives are recorded in every fiber of our being and He knows us perfectly? These signs and tokens are never talked about in the scriptures as being required at the last day, as those tokens are Christ's alone, and we are recipients of what He did. Those infallible proofs mentioned in the context of Acts and before are also different than the ones in the endowment. In the case of the new names, every recorded case in the Bible where they are given, those people are then just simply known by that name and it is a sign that He has chosen them, and called them to be witnesses of Him to the world. It is a sign of a special covenant He has made with them for the benefit of God's children, and those that are renamed are very much the exception and is not a common occurrence. Those names are not secret, but instead are the names they become known by to the world and their posterity. Going back to the infallible proofs, it does not say anything about those infallible proofs being required to get into heaven, as well as it does not address why our current temple endowments required oaths of throat slitting, disembowelment, etc. for the revealing of these things. This is striking because God has specifically said that He does not work in secret, in darkness, nor in secret combinations. Also, if these ordinances are so important and essential to our salvation and stay the same, why have they been changed in such massive ways that very much not only alter the meaning of things, but also have changed the context of things, and even the covenants made in the ceremony? God has said over and over again throughout the Old and New Testament and through the Book of Mormon that He does not change, his words do not change, His gospel and the way in which we are saved stays the same, He does not turn to the left or the right but His course is straight before Him and is one eternal round, so why then has there been such massive changes to the endowment in both substance, wording, and covenants made?
If you go through the pre-1996 endowment, on top of still having those penalty paths in there, Lucifer has his own black apron on in the garden and gives this explanation of what it is:
"LUCIFER: It is an emblem of my power and Priesthoods.
ADAM: Priesthoods?
LUCIFER: Yes, Priesthoods"
When the gods are returning, Lucifer told them:
"ADAM: I hear their voices, they are coming.
LUCIFER: See, you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide!
ADAM: Come, let us hide.
NARRATOR: Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons."
Lucifer himself is telling them to put on aprons, just like he has on. Are we then putting on the emblem of his priesthood, and this over the garments we already are wearing that are supposed to represent the covering of our nakedness, and Christ atonement covering us? This same apron is the one we carry with us throughout the entire endowment process, and into God's presence. Also notice that Lucifer was the one that instructed us to put on the apron. What would that mean about it's meaning? Again this already is a more tame version of the 1800's edition, where blood atonement was a standard part of the ceremony. Again are the oaths required of you say in the pre-1996 edition not reminiscent of the oaths made by secret combinations to not reveal their order under pain of death in the most aggravating manner? We know this is the case as it is very clear in the Book of Mormon and Bible what sorts of oaths they swear. Much of the latter part of Alma going from Alma 37 then skipping to Alma 43 then onward through the Book of Helaman into 3 Nephi. Then there is Ether 8. In the Bible we find this with Cain and Lamech in Genesis.
For now I think this sufficient. What are your thoughts? I hope this helps, and it is good to have these sorts of discussions, as it very quickly at least for me makes me realize when I have a weak argument and should do more research and study on the matter. As one of my friends had said, we should be making intellectually honest arguments, not just making a case based on emotions. If something is true, it will stand scrutiny and the test of time. We should then prayerfully and carefully study it out, and make sure to be thorough in our searching, and to make sure we are grounded in Christ, and letting Him lead us.
I wish you the best of luck, and that our Lord Jesus Christ will help you in your own journey as He has been helping the rest of us!
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS
I honestly believe that a Zion people do not use money.
Perhaps not. I don’t know what things will be like after Jesus comes back. In the present, it’s impossible to have much more than a subsistence barter economy without money, as money is a way to store value across time that allows people to plan and execute long-term economic action.
@@IBelieveJoseph Well sure. The reason we store value in money is because our "value" is misplaced. We value things and expansion rather than people and meaning.
The Nemenhah Records say that after Christ visited them, once a community reached 1,000 families, they split to form another community elsewhere. It's almost as if the Telestial realm that we inhabit was only meant for such living, while waiting for a perfected King to lead us to a new millennium of Terrestrial living.
@TureRealD I think that you’re conflating economic value and moral/spiritual value. Anyway, not only is money a store of economic value across time, it also enables economic calculation because things can be measured by price. Without money, there are no prices. Without prices, there’s no way to measure the demand for a product or service. Without a way to measure the demand, there’s no way to tell how much to produce. Over- and underproduction, followed by economic stagnation and/or collapse are the result. Smaller communities that don’t use money doesn’t solve the problem, because that destroys their ability to cooperate economically, because facilitating economic cooperation is something else that money does.
Maybe Jesus will be able to institute a new kind of system. But saying that money is bad so we just won’t use it is wishful thinking.
As if God needs $$$. hahaha
Everything described in this video explains consecration, but does nothing to show how it differs from Communism. In fact "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a Marxist slogan, not an LDS one.
It seems like the maker of this video has done very little reading of Marx and instead relies solely how other people have attempted to implement Communism over time. Communism is also supposed to be a voluntary system. That when things get so bad it becomes self evident that the best path is to share all things in common; the people rise up against their oppressors and implement the system for themselves voluntarily.
Furthermore, quoting one Austrian school economist saying that holding things in common doesn't work does very little to explain communism at all. Harden who coined the 'tragedy of the commons' concept actually argued that things could be held in common through strict regulation of common property, though he is often misquoted saying he was against common property.
I'm not saying either system works, but what I am saying is that arguing consecration isn't the colloquial communism isn't novel at all. However, one would be hard pressed to find differences between what Joseph Smith and Karl Marx actually wrote which is probably why the maker of this video doesn't even attempt to cover Marx at all.
@landon4278 I’m sorry comrade, but you seem to have misunderstood the purpose of the video. I explained the misconceptions of the Law of Consecration by examining what Joseph Smith actually taught and contrasting them with commonly held beliefs about them. A review of Marx’s writings was never my goal. I also note that what Marx may or may not have meant, or how communism is “supposed” to work matters very little and is a “no true Scotsman” (or in this case, “not real communism) fallacy in the matter at hand.
5:47 Clearly You never heard of Communism in Yugoslavia... There was private property, private businesses, privacy...
Saying that people can have private property under communism is like saying that black people could be free in antebellum America-technically true, but very misleading.
I didn’t dive deeply into communist ideas because that’s not the point of the video. I wanted to focus on something that can actually work.
@@IBelieveJoseph You mean something like asking for 'Muirica to explain what communism is... Or Asking McDonalds why Whopper is such a good hamburger... Please keep in mind where You get the informations from...
Would be a lot cooler if He was...
This is a very nasty podcast you dont know much about the latterday saints you have it all wrong
@user-ux3vb5zg1p I’m sorry you feel that way. But I hope you have a pleasant day.
I would point to His interview on the Clarity Podcast. I think you made an assumption that is not correct, because He grew up as a very faithful LDS guy who later had questions and started to be much more serious in researching our Church History. I would also point to how different his approach is from say Randy Jordan who likes to comment on these videos, who appears to want to squash through historical evidence any faith in the church as well as in anything related to it. That is what I have been able to gather from reading his comments. If you carefully watch the videos, you would see I Believe Joseph is simply trying to figure what is true, and what to keep and what discard from the church. We are not interested in keeping falsehoods and lies! We are trying to be based in Christ, which of necessity means we need to be based in truth, and to be serious, diligent seekers of the truth and to let Him guide. We are trying to get closer to Him, and we are told that no unclean thing can enter His presence. This channel as well as others like it are a call for the Latter Saints to more seriously examine the foundation on which they stand and build on and to help encourage them in following Jesus Christ, and to build on a foundation of truth, faith, and honesty and to follow Him in humility and to be filled with His perfect love.
I hope this helps!
Sincerely,
Your Brother in Christ,
JS