Joseph Smith's Polygamy: The Myth of Fanny Alger
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- You would think that reporting a bunch of second-hand gossip as if it was fact would be against the historian’s craft. But when it comes to Joseph Smith’s polygamy, it’s their modus operandi. By popular demand, in this episode I look at the sources for the story of Joseph’s relationship with Fanny Alger. Special thanks to Brian Hales, whose great work assembling so many sources makes it much easier to do what he does not: look at them critically.
If you’d like to help me keep making these videos, I’d be honored if you would consider a monetary contribution:
• Venmo: J-Pear-78
• Bitcoin: bc1q0ymtjutecqtp55g8xnwfsaqrue7qeqrlhejlem
Sources:
- Brian Hales on Fanny: josephsmithspo...
and: josephsmithspo...
- The High Council Trial: www.josephsmit...
- McLellin, Ann Eliza, and Hancock’s stories: josephsmithspo...
- Joseph Smith Foundation uses Mosiah Hancock’s ludicrous story: josephsmithfou...
- Eliza statement on only monogamy: archive.org/de...
- The Voice of Innocence: catalog.church...
- Benjamin Johnson’s account: catalog.church...
o Typed version: web.archive.or...
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What frustrates me is how critics always give the accuser the benefit of the doubt and treat hearsay as fact ... but are never willing to give Joseph Smith the benefit of the doubt.
Sounds like the "media" back in their day was not much different than ours after all.
@@ron3537 I think you nailed it. Sounds very political, doesn't it? Smearing your opponent using an alleged affair or other sexual misconduct is the oldest trick in the book
@@Freddy78909 LOL. One accusation of an alleged sexual affair can be debated. It's a little more difficult when there are more than thirty.
@randyjordan5521 Not when the men doing all the accusing have more than 50 wives
@@StompMom5 the ones with one wife were against Joseph Smith's polygamy and their printing press was attacked by Smith's Danites.
BTW these critics were Mormons and they were the crowd at the jailbreak when Joseph Smith fired on the crowd and these Mormons defended themselves and killed Joseph.
It's laughable that you all try to blame other Christians for Joseph Smith's death.
Affair means something that happens, it doesn't have to be sexual. Parties were called affairs,, business dealings were called affairs, fights were called affairs. There was even a family tv show in the 70's called "A Family Affair" and it wasn't about sex of any kind.
Mental gymnastics 😂…look at what Joe taught and did it opposes JESUS CHRISTS teachings. CHRIST IS KING Joe is not his prophet. Joe was a profit and died not a martyr just a dead con mam
Today many are fasting and praying with Michelle Stone and Gwendolyn Wyne that the truth about polygamy will be revealed to members of the church. Your research has helped us to heal from the suffering polygamy has caused. I wanted to hear Brian Hales best argument debunked. Thank you.
@PilatesAnne Thank you so much! I’m happy that my videos have helped you and others. 🥹
Great video, I appreciate all the research you put in your videos! ♥️
Thank you for saying so! I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Whoa, I had no idea Eliza R. Snow chose to live with the Smiths, TWICE, when she had her own house! And appeared to have a crush on Joseph, and called Emma a liar. I used to think Eliza was such a strong, noble lady, but after reading her journal from when she lived with the Smiths, she seems arrogant, self-centered, and dramatic.
She taught school for a few months and gave a huge, long-winded speech in front of JS when the school was closed (and copied down all the flattering farewell messages from her students into her journal). On Oct. 12th 1842, she wrote Joseph to tell him Emma (who was ill) was well again-but instead of just saying that, she wrote him a poem and went on about him being exiled, and how he should be of good cheer because he was destined to triumph. 😬 She speaks glowingly-and often-of Joseph but only refers to Emma as “Mrs. Smith,” “Mrs. S.,” and “her.” Big yikes. 😬
She certainly was dramatic-at least in her writing.
I'm a descendants of both Levi and Mosiah Hancock and appreciate this video. I'd love to get my hands on Levi's actual handwritten journal to compare to the printed version I have. I'm sure this wasn't the only thing Mosiah altered, sadly....
Your understanding is amazing. Thank you so much for your research! You are truly appreciated by all who are seeking nothing but the truth…
Well, thank you! I’m happy that people appreciate my videos.
@@IBelieveJosephWhere is kolob 😊😊😊
@@james8996 I was just there, it’s pretty cool. Maybe I’ll take you next time.
I love that you made the video longer👍. Great research and observation.
It's been educational hearing stories from the community of Christ and their side of history. Interesting though that both those sides between ours and theirs tell similar stories.
However, what they call adultery and whoredoms we call sacred and holy🤦♀️. Brigham and Heber sure got away with a lot and made themselves legends. Only now their legendary actions have caught up with them and they ain't no heroes.
Makes you wonder if Fanny even knew her name was being used??
What poor Emma had to endure... Much family loss and the betrayal of all her friends claiming to be sleeping with her husband 😔
@StompMom Thank you! I actually prefer making shorter videos, but there was so much for this one. I started doing these because I really like Michelle Stone’s videos, but they were so long that it would take me days to watch them. I thought that there might be some people so intimidated by the long videos that they would not watch them at all. So I decided to make short ones. Under 10 min is my goal, but I don’t always hit it.
@@IBelieveJoseph My exact thoughts too! I look at many of those multi hour videos that look great, but for some like myself, do not have the attention span for it. Please keep up the short and sweet videos sir. Thank you.
@ron3537 Thank you! I still watch Michelle’s videos, but I usually have to do it in 10-20 min increments because that’s all the time I have. 😅
@@IBelieveJoseph Yes they are good, and I have also watched some of the shorter ones and was impressed.
@IBelieveJoseph Your time was actually PERFECT👌. When I said longer... I like that it was more than 5 minutes but definitely still short!!!. I completely agree with videos being too long. I also Love Michelle's work but I've only seen a handful of her videos due to the length. Your videos I've seen several times and I play them on our large screen for my teens to watch because they're short and simple.
You're spot on and greatly appreciated for you work on this subject 👍😊. Many thanks 🥳
This video is gold. I think you are doing God's work defending the prophet. You provide so many specific details others leave out. Thank you
You’re so welcome!
Now the phrase "Eliza the Liar" is emblazened in my mind. I always thought the constant praise and fawning over her by the church seemed unearned. Maybe instinctively I knew there was something bizzare about any woman who would boast about being a "plural wife" to both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. It's creepy how chummy she was with Joseph, slandered Emma, signed the Voice of Innocense, was general RS secretary, but Brigham disbanned the Relief Society, waited 20 years, then asked Eliza the Liar to be the second president of the Relief Society. When Eliza the Liar "reestablished" the Relief Society, she said nothing about teaching purity and chastity against polygamy, but that it;s purpose was instead relieving the poor and saving souls. She constantly carried around the pocket watch she dubiously obtained from Joseph Smith at one of the first meetings of the Relief Society, as if it were a personal gift of great sentimentality.
Getting ready to watch but gonna start by saying YES......🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳. Thank You for putting this out there👌
Yes! Great content on details I have been trying to find for a while
Glad it was helpful!
Well done
Thanks! I’m glad you liked it.
I am getting tired of these far fetched slanders. Did they have straws to grasp back in those days too. I think to believe this stuff about Joseph you must have no curiosity or desire for learning, even fear of learning truth or are just using it as an excuse to slander from deep routed hatred of Joseph and the Book of Mormon. Not hatred of the church, since the church believes the same as the exmo haters. I would find it comical if it was not so sad that those who hate and leave the church, then go along with all the same premises the church holds too, like they are still super TBM's. Oh the blindness of man as Moroni said.
As all of these crazy different angles of church history keeps coming out, it's a testimony for myself that Joseph was inspired to start the foundation of the Lord's church, including the Book of Mormon. Why else would the adversary come up with all of these wild theories, etc if Joseph was not inspired? Why would the adversary waste his time with these things? I don't think there is another kind of institution on earth that has as wild of a history as this church. So, I think that is for a definite reason... we have to go through a "maze" to figure it out, but some just don't love the truth enough to do that.
@@ron3537 Too true. He tried to get the work destroyed with the 116 pages. Did not work. The Book of Mormon is the key fruit of Joseph Smith. They cannot attack the book well so they revert to attacking the messenger. The LDS church has also in my opinion done a great injustice to it's founder to protect the second one. I am afraid that my research, a lot of it too, leads me to the sad conclusion that D&C 101, the new one, is about us. We killed Joseph as we would not live what he gave us and preferred what others thought they could do better. We then blamed it on non members. The last dream of Joseph and the barn is very apt. The more I research the more I love and admire Joseph and the more I detest what was done to him and the church. But 1 Ne 21 which is about Joseph gives me joy and hope. The Savior will send a servant, I think Joseph again, to rescue the righteous that do not slander and defame Joseph to save their sandy foundation from Brigham and their position in the world church that is coming and Babylon.
@@FleeingBabylon-Now Yes to those things too. As I'm a newb in this, I only have about 10 months of researching these things, I am a little afraid of what I will find in the next months. But I am most grateful to have made it through the important parts of the "maze", as I could never let go of Joseph and the Book of Mormon being of God.
Regarding the church "protecting the second one", that would open up a huge can of worms! Explaining and changing the name of BYU is just one of the big "worms" that would need to be dealt with. But with claiming to be the only true church, telling the truth should be a top priority.
@@ron3537 Yes what you say is very true. Some things are painful and the ramifications are immense. I have gotten through to the bottom or at least close and it is not pretty. But the Savior knew this was coming. The servant of Isaiah who will come is not from headquarters any more than Samuel the lamanite of Abinadi were. But I am happy knowing the truth, as it does set you free. I am actually closer to God and Joseph and the Book of Mormon because of it, much more. Much further from trust in any system of religion or government in the world. As the Book of Mormon says, they are all out of the way. If I can help with any question you have let me know and I will try to point you in the right direction to get an answer. Ulimatley we must be like Nephi and ask God, rather than Laman and Lemuel who would not ask and looked to others.
@@FleeingBabylon-Now "I have gotten through to the bottom or at least close and it is not pretty."😒
Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it some time in the future.
Great job@ i sm a descendant of BFJ and I agree he wasn't telling the truth... polygamist do that to bolister their own narrative.
Again, solid empirically based work. 1838 was a pivotal year when Brutus turned on Julius Caesar. Joseph’s July 19, 184- comments identify the rot clearly.
Thank you.
You are welcome!
Do you believe everyone lied about joseph concerning polygamy or were just misinformed? There are so many witness statements.
@Telavian As I mentioned in the video, I think it’s a combination of lying, being misinformed, and the alteration of memory with time, bias, and indoctrination. Witness statements have to be evaluated individually rather than numerically, otherwise you’ve got an argumentum ad populum fallacy.
@@IBelieveJoseph I do agree a bit. However if 100 people claimed something and you looked at each individually then you might find individual faults however there would still be some general truth.
Basically it is not a binary, yes or no, but maybe a shade of truth scenario.
There is certainly a problem though with this because some of these statements are certainly a result of other statements so that needs to be a factor as well.
@@Telavian I see your point to a degree, but if almost all of the claims from those 100 people come after Joseph was murdered, who really is left to give an honest opposition to those claims? Especially when those that were later in charge had the ability and motive to change the narrative.
@@ron3537 Yes that is true. The whole Nauvoo time is a bit murky.
Thank you for the video. It was very informative.
I’m glad you found it informative!
Lol......Joseph was a GENIUS but obviously a LIAR.
Funny how virtually all cult founders become first class skirt chasers.
Hello. I enjoy your content but respectfully disagree. As I have mentioned before.. JS was tar feather. Do you agree that he was? If so, why was he tar feathered? I’ll kindly wait for your response.
Wasn’t it because some people believed a letter of lies written by Ezra booth who got butt hurt and became and enemy of Joseph and the church. Why just believe an enemy without balancing all the information available. Same goes for people like John Bennett.
@@kentwentzell6020he was going to be castrated, it usually only happened for sexual indiscretions.
Hello! I’m glad that you enjoy my videos, and I don’t mind that you disagree. I’ve added the sexual misconduct rumors surrounding the tar/feather incident to my video idea list. Thank you!
I agree. You cannot trust a liar. So when Joseph Smith lied to people about seeing buried treasure, using his rock and a hat, that calls into question any, and all of his later claims, including that of innocence, in this matter with Fanny in the Barn
It was ED Howe and Hurlbert who accused Joseph of using a stone in the hat to translate. The accusation comes from an anti book . The church historians like to find new “facts” so they give more credibility to Joseph’s enemies. more credibility to Joseph’s enemies. The church then believes the historians. I believe Joseph who said he translated using the plates and Urim and thumim.
Joseph told the truth about using the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon. The stone in the hat idea came from his enemies E D Howe and Hurlbert. Hannah Stoddard wrote a book called “Seer Stone or Urim and Thummim. It was historians like Bushman who give more credibility to the antis. Sadly the church believes the historians without checking the footnotes for sources.
My Comment was that JOSEPH SMITH WAS A LIAR...AND THUS, PER THIS VIDEO, HE CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED. He lied when he told people that HE COULD SEE WHERE BURIED TREASURE WAS LOCATED....using his Rock in his Hat.@@PilatesAnne
@krismurphy7711 We know about you.
Then you know I only deal with Truth and Facts @@rconger24
If you are looking for more material, I’d be interested in your take on the night Joseph was tarred and feathered.
According to detractors they claim that Eli Johnson led a mob to try and castrate Joseph because he had been intimate with his sister Miranda.
Thank you.
Thanks for the idea! I’ll add it to my list.
THE LDS CHURCH ACKNOWLEDGES Fanny as The First.
@@hankholiday7792 Or this Denier??
@@hankholiday7792 Don't feed the .....
@@hankholiday7792 Although in Brigham's defense...🤔 we really don't have 100% proof that there's not some kind of "life" on the moon. So there is a very, very slim chance that it could only be 3 out 4 big ones. Just trying to see all possible angles.
Didn't Joseph Smith say there were people living on the Moon? Tall?? Dressed like Quakers??? @@ron3537
Ignore the.........truth...?@@FleeingBabylon-Now
So you’re a perfect candidate to the church formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And you know how that turns out.
I've been divorced and taken to court by my ex. He had cheated on me and taken advantage of many women. But he lied about me and had his family lie about me writing many letters and made up stories about me to hide what he had done. I know that the loyal, loving, and honest are always slandered. We are on the Lord's side, but we can be hated so much. I will never understand it. I have learned so much from Joseph Smith and I know he was a virtuous man. I love the Savior's gospel so much. I was reading in The Book of Mormon Jacob 2:24,26-28 and I know it is true🩷
@goodahead I’m sorry for what you’ve been though with your ex. It sounds like it was awful.