In my case, the recipy for a good bike is a 90s steel frame one size small, with the biggest tires you can fit in, long seatpost and long stem. The tires should cost more than the frame and you should build the bike yourself like if it was intended for survival on an apocalyptic world. Then you really understand and love your bike
After riding stiff aluminum frames for decades, I a threw a leg over a late 80's Trek 400 chromoly lugged frame and was amazed at how smooth a ride it provided. The rear triangle certainly feels like it flexes over sharp bumps. Many times I think to myself that the frame must be cracked some hidden place it flexes so much, and I have actually gone over the rear triangle with a magnifying glass looking for that crack. But no it just rides so damn smooth and soaks up road cracks so well that it is my favorite human powered vehicle of all time.
Like a bike tech friend of mine said, "Almost all innovations are competition driven. But, for 99.9% of us all we want is a bike that rides well, shifts smooth and slows down when we squeeze the brake levers."
Just back from a long ride on my Lightning Bolt, smoking my summer harvest for the first time, and getting some quality education. Really appreciated Ron!
Thank you, Ronnie, for one of the most informative videos I have ever watched about bicycles. I liked everything about the way this information was presented.
I enjoyed this video. Keeps me grounded instead of throwing my credit card at every quick fix the bike world recommends. Keep it up Ronnie. It's winter we need more content.
Love your content. Mind blowing that most folk STILL pump their wire beaded tyres hard as rock!! Also reached a point where ‘latest tech’ went cold on me…Industry promoted,along with MANY other aspects of our lives ( health springs to mind) but many things ,unscientific,gimmick’s,pushed as ‘factual’ in order to sell ideas and products. Thank you.
From experience I agree with nearly all of this - it is a tiny bit suspicious when all the "best" things are also all the most trendy but it just seems that some of the cycling world is starting understand that the right compromises were already found a long time ago and the trends are going the right direction for the most part (when they don't over do it). I say start at what contacts the ground, find tires you like, on a bike like a bmx where there are no complicating factors like suspension or flex you can instantly feel that the right tire can make the bike feel nimble and trustworthy and the wrong tire and make the bike feel washy and vague. Then replace what you touch, grips, pedals, seat. People are looking at new forks or frames when they are still running some rock hard stock grips or are standing on some tiny stock pedals with no grip.
great stuff ron - keep up the great work. very important to have a voice like yours out there combatting the gram cutting, race-centric, aggressive KOM voice that seems to dominate most of the bike industry.
Prof. Ronnie, that wheelbarrow analogy was an utterly incredible explanation of easily comprehendible transferable knowledge. Nothing quite like exaggerating something to aid comprehension.
I've had a lugged frame MTB for a loooong time. I built it and and it's like my best friend. Extremely comfortable. Getting ready to build a new bike so I'm excited but reserved. This is a great video!
Great video, Ronnie! The design & engineering principles you've used explain everything super clearly. Hopefully, you can change some minds about frame materials, bar/stem diameters, seat post lengths, and straight blade forks! 🎉
An often overlooked factor by most manufacturers and many high end bike shops in setting up a new frame is facing the head tube and fork bearing seats. Getting the bearings nicely lined up so they rotate at a consistent torque can make the difference between a bike feeling a little bit twitchy or being a hands free wonder on downhills; and as a bonus your headsets will last a long time. Quill type headsets frequently coming loose are a good indication bearings may be out of alignment. One of my old favorite frames came back from a repaint feeling funky, just the overspray on the headtube seats was enough to make it feel a little twitchy when hands free, cleaning up the bearing seats put it back to normal.
PREACH. Biggest omission in setups, along with failure to assay and correct dropout alignment. I always cringe when I see a Chris King headset pressed into a painted or unmachined surface.
good point! I will admit to knowing this, but ignoring most of the time, perhaps to my own detriment --- I was installing headsets with a hammer and 2x4 until a press was gifted to me 10 years ago.
The main triangle is really more of a parallelogram (irregular quadrilateral) since the top tube and downtube don't meet at the same point but are offset on the headtube. Think about how a derailleur parallelogram moves, that is similar to how a frame deflects in the vertical plane. *but for all intent and purposes* that means F-all because any vertical deflection in the frame is negligible compared to vertical deflection in other parts of the bike (tires/fork) On the topic of steel vs aluminum, I don't ride steel for the feel, but because aluminum has a cyclical fatigue limit, where the limit is practically infinite in a steel frame. Not to mention there's no need to heat-treat if you need to fix or want to modify the frame in some way.
Essentually, Aluminium slowly becomes more brittle and weaker as it flexes over time. It has a low fatigue limit, any amount of flex alters the metal, and the damage is both cumulative and permanent. You will find many Aluminium wheel rims crack as they get older, and frames will get weaker. With steel there is no permanent change in the strength of the material from repeated flexing, unless you bend it beyond a certain critical point. That's why most springs are made from steel.
I enjoy learning from you. I’m curious about all the comments about your appearance. I’m an old woman who almost feels guilty appreciating what i see. You have a wealth of info and you are in great shape. I hate to see unnecessary negative comments
Loved the ammount of concentrated personal info you just put in 10 minutes! I felt your words like my experience after 30 years on two wheels. Fully agree with the new Ideale saddle. Have one and feels so nice to ride. Will try a titanium bar as soon i can! Thanks mate! Karl.
Here’s how you can do your tape experiment on a straight blade fork: firmly zip tie or tape two pencils perpendicular to the fork blade and parallel to each other, say 6 inches apart, one down by the dropout, one higher up. The pencils are facing toward the front of the bike. Then run your tape strip between the ends of the pencils. Any small deflection of the straight tubes will show up as slack in the tape.
I have a trek 7200 bicycle, with the Tannus solid tires, no tubes, no air, just solid tires, out of all my bikes too this is my favorite I would never go back too pneumatic tires, no maintenance no Flats no worries absolutely one-hundred-percent the best investment I ever made
100% straight up facts in this video. So many worthless (to the consumer) sales and marketing gimmicks in cycling , it will make your head spin. That being said, I'm not riding a hardtail MTB offroad much less a fully rigid one... I renounced that decades ago and am *never* going back.
Always a fun watch with the wisdom of Mr Ron! I did learn a thing or two. I have been a steel snob for many years but I am on the road to Al curious now for sure! More videos please - have a great day Ronnie 🌞
For a 30-minute nerdy deep dive, that was surprisingly enjoyable to watch, and definitely got me thinking. I feel you about suspension forks. Had a bad accident due to my fork not being pumped up correctly. The fork nosedived and sent me over the bars and into a tree. Now I'm thinking of ditching it entirely.
Suspension is definitely fun since it can be used to ride in places you probably wouldn’t think of with a rigid bike. But I prefer rigid bikes because of the simplicity and feedback you get from that. Ultimately I see the bike as a fun machine and I don’t want anything complicating it too much. Less to think about before a ride is better in my book
@rollinrat4850 I'm cyclo newbie and I have Suntour's trekking suspention fork and I always wonder - what terrain is too much for it? To avoid any damage and future failure? Hard to find any info on those and it makes me bit nervous not knowing its limits.
@rollinrat4850 Thank for reply. I take my bike to the shop regularly so hopefully service is ok. It's Suntour fork meant for trekking(hybrid?) bikes specifically. It's less robust than MTB forks. I'm not going to jump anytime soon. It's just that I ride some terrain and sometimes I'm like "wasn't this too much for it?" But I guess I'm just overly cautious.
Loves me a great bike nerd / bike tech vid. Great run though of the many factors that make these machines so magical and a few of the most important ones to focus on. Thanks!!
Great video Ronnie thanks for sharing. I don’t agree on straight forks: in my experience they aren’t as compliant and comfortable as the curved ones. 100% agree on 26 mm handlebars and anything else you said.
Would you mind elaborating the differences between a frame with a longer seat tube and flat top tube vs a shorter seat tube and a sloping top tube? Thank you!
Good analogies. I like the skinny tubes, but think the curved steel forks are sexy, lol. Just sent it on my Ultradynamico race series tires at a race this weekend. Steep decline, fresh chunky gravel with no clear paths on a steep HT steel bike, albeit curved fork. It ran true, tires performed well, and seemed sturdier than their tan sidewalls would suggest. You were helpful in assisting me get them setup tubeless, and I like them quite well. Good video, love the jorts, lol.
Former serial flatter! Switched to schwalbe and have made it a year (3500 mi.) without a flat! I even had an allen wrench go through the tire (not the tube). Thanks for the video - totally worth the watch!
ive been riding for years. coming from a skateboarding background, only this past year have i begun to really tune my bike to my needs. thank you for a great video. very good edit.
I can’t agree more with Ron’s main point. I like to lock in the one or two tires I want to roll, then build the bike around their characteristics and requirements.
I got the book Bicycle Science by D. G. Wilson and have been entertained and educated for like a decade. You can skip the more complex parts and get to them later. It touches just about everything about human powered machines in great depth. A wonderful read if you love bikes and want to get a deeper understanding of the principles.
Love everything you’re putting out past and current. From the Ted Talks at PBE to going over what works for you has me building my bikes aesthetically first with components from the early 90s that will outlast everything else. Thanks for sharing your philosophy and dropping the science on the community. About to switch to friction shifting to try it out and playing around with handlebars.
Thanks Mr. Romance, I ride steel bikes 'cause I'm poor and they look cool. My main ride is a Falcon of England, mid-80s road bike. It's still equipped with BioPace Shimano 12 speed components. I get a few comments from other graying old dudes who remember this gimmicky. I always thought the frame was a bit small, but I guess I stumbled into something good with the long seatpost and stem. it has moustache bars and skinny tires with an old French hammock saddle, it's served me well for decades with occasional modifications. You are my first source for bike knowledge. Keep up the fantastic work, you handsome devil.
Are we just going to gloss over the hoochie daddy shorts? 😂 Great video with a lot of information with most of it things I’ve never really considered nor heard discussed before. Most of the focus today is on “slackness” and “modern geo” while skipping some of the more important things. For me, the most important things I look for are bars/grips, saddle, pedals, fork and tires. If I feel comfortable sitting on it and rolling over things I am happy. Tires, I want the bike to be predictable and in control when going around turns/over obstacles. Earned my sub!
Great video Professor Ronnie! My takeaways are these. First, I'm glad to see you gravitate back to your Alumalith with flat bars. It seems you've been riding drops an awful lot lately. Second, your installation of frame pumps. Third, your explanation of seat tube and head tube geometry which to me makes all the difference when considering bike frames and their effect on ride quality. Lastly, the Casa de Ronnie looks like paradise. Oh, and the sword usage is also a nice touch.
I am the first to admit I am a Western US jingoist but I gotta say your place is really nice. Green and leafy with a morning coffee after sleeping with the house windows open. Oh! And a great discussion that gave me stuff to consider
Thanks for all the info. Think I'll have to watch this vid about 10 more times in order to fully absorb about half the info you presented to us. Thanks again.
Great explanations and common myths debunking. I , myself prefer steel bikes purely due to aesthetical preference for skinny tubes. When you like how the bike looks you tend to ride it more often.
Triangles are the stiffest shape. Imagine if you had a triangle with the corners being pivots. You still can't change the angles of the triangle. Now a triangle can still deform through deflection. A force on a triangle can cause the lengths of the sides of the triangle to change. By the side lengths changing, it'll cause a change in the triangle's angle, causing flex.
I've always had suspicions around the idea of vertical compliance in bike frames. As you say a triangle is intrinsically stiff, no vertical flex there. So yes, I agree the tyres are doing the work in terms of vertical compliance, and generally the bigger the better, particularly off road. Your point about torsional flex coming from the tyres was particularly interesting, something I've not thought of, but makes perfect sense. I also think Aluminium makes a great frame material, and love my Mason Cycles Bokeh, currently set up with 650b x 55 tyres. However, on the road, where the bike is receiving smaller higher frequency vibrations, and you're also not shifting your weight around so much, I really find the frame to make a difference. A lighter frame with thinner tube wall thicknesses seems for me at least to do a better job of absorbing road vibrations. It's not to do with frame flex as such, but the way the frame dissipates vibration. It doesn't seem to matter what the frame is made of, all the standard materials, steel, aluminium, Ti and carbon can do this if designed properly. Again, I find I'm much more fussy with saddles on the road. The combination of high frequency vibration and the tendency to just sit relatively inertly in one position for longer periods means getting the saddle right is much more important. Off road I find I can get by with almost any old saddle.
Funny, I have one the last light Steel dedacciai XC MB from 2001 and I find it less vibrating than aluminium but alive and nervous. . But I also have a 1979 road bike - basic frame, wich we would call "made of heater pipe" in France, but with mid 80s high end peripheric and wheels, and I ended by mistake in a long heavy gravel section : even with my road/touring tyres (slick 35mm) with quite high pressure (5 bars), I have found the vibration to be amazingly low on rocks and the bike to be forgiving. The tubes may have thicker material than light steel frame, but their shape is much thinner. Those may explain why they absord better. I also have an aluminuim gravel and aluminium cheap road bike and if their tyres are too pumped up I feel the vibrations more than on steel. Especially from the back of the cheap road bike the fork being steel. The gravel less but it has a carbon seat post and fork. I know it's not scientific so it is not about the suspension provided by the frame itself, but what about the vibration frequency ?
I like my bikes with the supplest tyres I can find, although I don't necessarily always go for the fattest. I really like the tight little "blep" feeling/sound you get when you ride a perfectly tuned supple skinny tyre over a small bump. (like 25-32C) Another upside of supple tyres is they're usually very light which just makes the whole bike feel more lively
Great stuff - We will never reach nirvana with our bicycles and that's why we keep cycling. constant tinkering and adjustments make us better cyclists and in search for that ultimate ride and bike build. Thanks for a great video.
I have had and old steel bike that I got for cheap when I was in college and it was really smooth even on dirt trails. I upgraded to an aluminum bike and everything about the aluminum bike is better except I feel the bumps way more. I think it’s easier to make a cheap steel frame that feels good on rough ground than it is to make it out of almost anything else.
For forks, I find my vertical fork bikes to be more twitchy, responsive? Like less motion makes more of a difference. might be just frames but I've always thought moving the wheel axis forward makes it more like a buik. And it creates sort of a centered resting spot for lower speed stability. A scientific test of a the gravity aligned bent fork might be possible by seeing how slow you can ride hands free on various forks without falling over. Might also be interesting to see if you have to lean more or less when cornering at speed. Maybe you could tape a level to the bike and ride around a culdesac in a yellow vest until a Karen calls the cops on you for casing houses? Anyway... For there are newer stile flared out drops you see on some touring bikes that flex like the swept back upright bar you show and still let you get under the wind. I really like those for a comfortable riding drop.
I am interested in one of your mountain bikes but I must not be going to the correct site because it only shows single speed mt. bikes. What is your website?
My 90s KHS team mtb with Ritchey Logic tubeset has flexible seat stays that bow out away from each other that translates to a vertical compliance. It also has a Kenesis aluminum fork that deflects more than the chrome moly fork it replaced. These are a couple of the things I've discovered.
Thank you for an amazing explanation on bike riding! You nailed it here. I have been riding for over 40 years and feel that this new cr@p that they keep dumping on us actually makes riding less enjoyable. I have a mid-fat 27.5x3 that had the best of all new technology on it and when I stripped it down to what was needed for my style of riding it fit better and was 6 pounds less. Sorry I didn’t get rid of the suspension fork (but I added remote lockout). I put shorter bars put a longer stem and dumped the stupidest invention since the pogo stick on wheels (full suspension) the dropper post! My mid-fat is aluminum and boy I wish I would have done steel! It creaks it flexes and is not the most comfortable ride. I am moving on to a karate monkey for my next bike. This one will be all ridged with drop bars. I have a set of 27.5x3 wheels and a set of 700x43 wheels for it. People say this is a bad idea because of the boost spacing but I think it will work well for me since I’m a big 270 lb 6’2” dude. Oh and that picture of you off the back of the saddle is what riding is about flowing with the bike! If you know how to ride you don’t need a crutch (suspension, dropper post etc)thanks for the best video on bicycling I’ve ever seen. Keep pedaling.
Hey, that's pretty interesting! I especially like the comparison of fork blade shapes. I think Jan Heine called it splay. Uh, the movement of the fork reacting to trail bumps.
10:42 How do these saddles perform in the winter? Does the comfort remain in low temps? even down to -10C or below? Also in general 3-5 hour ride? Have you tried carbon saddles? If so how do they compare? are the leather saddle better for my use? Some told me to use carbon saddles. I guess they might not be for me, as I ride all year and even in winter in rain, snow. But I know some use leather wax to protect it. But riding with a bag over the saddle won't work for me. I've not heard of Selle Sideale. So thx for sharing that.
Great to see somebody speaking sense about this. And talking about these topics. But frame actually makes a huge difference when it comes to geometry, size. so old school MTB bikes for example you sit too far back, reach is short, cockpit low, so it gives neck, back pain, fatigue, head angle making the bikes wiggly, long stem also makes you swing instead of turn the bar. But the way your bike is set up and the head tube angle will make it steer nicely. In this case a long stem makes sense, due to the handlebar used, so the hands are in the right spot. For some reason bicycle industry moved to steeper head angle, big mistake IMO. But now it's making more sense, longer reach and steeper seat tube angle. 3:24 You are right, vertically it won't flex, by side to side the rear end can flex. so some brands claim to tune that to have perfect combo of flex for control, grip, comfort, and not be too flexibly. I see some frames have weird designs to make it flex, and have elastomer in the seat stay top area, they call it soft tail, but that's usually titanium or carbon frames. But it will barely make a difference I think, IMO that's more hassle than it's worth. might as well get a full suspension bike then.
Finally, practical explanations for bike geometry. I would to see each of these bikes how you got them for a ride. Do you start with down tube for slacker feel or aggressive. Then choose the setup after that?
My most comfy bike is a grandpa spec hybrid with a suspension fork, suspension seatpost, 40mm tyres, flat bars with bar ends. I may look like a geezer but it just works.
I agree, my main bike is set up like that, although I prefer swept back "North Road" bars to flat bars. They put your wrists in a more natural position.
Hello professor, I assume you've already tried every possible saddle because you mentioned health issues. But since you didn't bring this up, I thought I'd leave a short note on pressure-relief saddles (the ones with a recess in the middle): depending on the rider's anatomy and riding style, they might not only be a relief for the perineum, but through that they let the basin rotate futher forward. This in turn releases the back (especially upper back), hence improving comfort during those lengthy rides.
I am not much on chain stay length -- really depends on how fast and how tight the terrain you encounter --- and if you like hopping over things more easily .... but for pure sitting and cruising with minimal input at speed ---- the riv geo allll the way
Yeah that makes a lot of sense I never even knew there was a difference until a few years ago, I once had a 1980’s Stumpjumper probably had a longer chain stay very long bike large size and rode very nicely that was a shoulda coulda woulda deal I regretted selling it not long after. Dig your videos and get a good laugh out of most of them thanks! @@ultraromance
Really glad to have found your channel. I have never encountered the opinion of an 'alt cyclist' before this, but can now safely say I have found my kin. Thanks for this video!
My obsession led me towards the lightest skinny tire drop bar aluminum bike I could afford and initially I wasn’t disappointed. The weight of my legs alone seemed to be enough to propel me down the road and speed was effortless but the first root crack I hit at speed was so jarring it blew my hands right off of the handlebars. It was then I realized I had to rethink everything
Frame and fork , geometry have a lot to do with the ride. Yes contact points , etc have a lot to do with feel. Geometry makes a bike twitchy, stable, etc. So I'm wondering about this video.
He did explain it in the video, but this isn't about the particular characteristics of certain frame geometries, but more about in which order you are likely to actually feel how a bike rides. The contact points on a bike, with the ground and your body, directly affect that feel. When riding, the tyres will usually flex far more than a frame, a fork will flex more than the frame, handlebars flex and absorb vibration, seats flex and absorb vibration. You feel this directly through the contact points. And the tube shape, wall thickness and diameter have a greater effect on what you feel than just the geometry.
For me the question of high or low trail skirts the more noticeable issue of heat tube angle. Cause you can have a high trail mtb with a slacked out HT and it will ride significantly different than a high trail road bike with a 74 HT. So likewise a low trail mtb (Jones) and low trail road. You’re obviously right that one can get used to whatever and ride it. But for me, anyway, HT angle is what I always want more of
This is the greatest video you've ever made. Fave part is about the headtube angle. Keep up the good work! Off topic, but hoping to see some winter vids from CT. ;)
Switching to a Brooks Cambium with the hole cut in it was a game changer for me. Bit of flex and no more post ride numb nob. Moulds to the sit bones too which is nice.
Very sensible. Thank you. My comment has a very remote connection to this vid, but I still think asymetrcal deflection in the rear triangle and in the fork when braking with disc brakes is dangerous for road bike racers. Take care and all the best.
I am with you! its a crying shame what big bike has done to road bikes with those totally overkill disc brakes. Suppose the move to larger volume road tires have muffled a bit of the associated ride quality loss
To measure telescopic compliance on a straight blade I think you could attache tape from the straight blade to the head tube or handle bars. As well you could put tape on the length of the straight blade but use tape to back the middle of the strip so you only have 2 contact points and the middle of the tape is free.
I used to be a serial flatter. Oh crap! I just jinxed myself back into it! Brooks Champion Flyer / French Caskets(Rene Herse) / Oury grips are my preferred method of tuning vibrational locomotion.. I make my own leather conditioner similar to Brooks.
Just a thought, wouldn't bigger diameter handlebars be more comfortable, because when you put your hand on them, the pressure gets distributed on a bigger area, therefore making the vibrations less painful? Obviously, a handlebar with a bigger diameter will always be stiffer, so there's probably a sweet spot, and it very well might be the 25,4-26mm
I realize it’s highly subjective but how do you recommend I find the dialed in tire pressure you speak of. Is there a formula based on rider weight and terrain and tire size to land in the ballpark and fine tune from there?
This entire time I thought that a 26.0 stem would be too big for a 25.4 handlebar! Gah, I've spent so much time looking for 26.0 stems on Ebay, they are tough to find. Thanks for the tip, Ron!
Great overview of bikes , pretty much in agreement and too many folks get hung up on one thing providing comfort, tires, saddle, frame, wheels….. ect , where it’s more of a whole package that can make a bike truly comfortable
As someone with lifelong stricture issues and surgeries, I've avoided serious riding for most of my adult life. Actually was forbidden to ride by my urologist. I really want to ride though and I was wondering what you thought about noseless saddles?
I’m puzzled. In about 2015 I bought a Specialized Sirrus fitness hybrid. I rode it a handful of times, but never took to it. Ended up selling it. This spring I bought a Trek fitness hybrid. Very similar on paper to the Sirrus I sold. But this one I like the ride? Why? I’m happy I like the Trek, but I wonder what’s different?
Ronnie, I love your videos. My parents recently moved to Lyme, and my sister lives in East Haddam - perhaps I'll run into you one of these days! Any rides in CT you particularly recommend??
In my case, the recipy for a good bike is a 90s steel frame one size small, with the biggest tires you can fit in, long seatpost and long stem. The tires should cost more than the frame and you should build the bike yourself like if it was intended for survival on an apocalyptic world. Then you really understand and love your bike
That is the way to do it!
hmmm poetry!
Had no idea cyclist carry a climbing chalk bag on their handlebars.
Love this recipe.
@@ultraromancethe saddle to the left which model is that please?
This video is like a glance into another universe where it's always summer and time stands still.
poetry
It's called the East Coast. 👍🏻 (Lived in Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, and Pennsylvania for 30 years)
I like this pointing stick. It truly helps bring out the finer points of this lesson.
This is the material that brings me back to TH-cam, time and time again
Absolutely love your quirky sense of humor and just how much you're unapologetically yourself
After riding stiff aluminum frames for decades, I a threw a leg over a late 80's Trek 400 chromoly lugged frame and was amazed at how smooth a ride it provided. The rear triangle certainly feels like it flexes over sharp bumps. Many times I think to myself that the frame must be cracked some hidden place it flexes so much, and I have actually gone over the rear triangle with a magnifying glass looking for that crack. But no it just rides so damn smooth and soaks up road cracks so well that it is my favorite human powered vehicle of all time.
Like a bike tech friend of mine said, "Almost all innovations are competition driven. But, for 99.9% of us all we want is a bike that rides well, shifts smooth and slows down when we squeeze the brake levers."
In the bike industry it's mostly a competition between one marketing department and another.
Ronnie makes me feel less alone in my obsession for bicycles
Much of the technical jargon went right over my head but I love the delivery, you my friend are the Bob Ross of bikes.
Just back from a long ride on my Lightning Bolt, smoking my summer harvest for the first time, and getting some quality education. Really appreciated Ron!
ooh la la --- a dancer of a tubeset on the ol' LB --- fun one to ride! enjoy the harvest!
Thank you, Ronnie, for one of the most informative videos I have ever watched about bicycles. I liked everything about the way this information was presented.
The wheelbarrow provided one of the clearest examples I’ve seen of bike geometry
I heard it first from Jeff Jones many years ago. Hopefully proper credit is given.
I enjoyed this video. Keeps me grounded instead of throwing my credit card at every quick fix the bike world recommends. Keep it up Ronnie. It's winter we need more content.
Love your content. Mind blowing that most folk STILL pump their wire beaded tyres hard as rock!! Also reached a point where ‘latest tech’ went cold on me…Industry promoted,along with MANY other aspects of our lives ( health springs to mind) but many things ,unscientific,gimmick’s,pushed as ‘factual’ in order to sell ideas and products. Thank you.
From experience I agree with nearly all of this - it is a tiny bit suspicious when all the "best" things are also all the most trendy but it just seems that some of the cycling world is starting understand that the right compromises were already found a long time ago and the trends are going the right direction for the most part (when they don't over do it).
I say start at what contacts the ground, find tires you like, on a bike like a bmx where there are no complicating factors like suspension or flex you can instantly feel that the right tire can make the bike feel nimble and trustworthy and the wrong tire and make the bike feel washy and vague.
Then replace what you touch, grips, pedals, seat. People are looking at new forks or frames when they are still running some rock hard stock grips or are standing on some tiny stock pedals with no grip.
great stuff ron - keep up the great work. very important to have a voice like yours out there combatting the gram cutting, race-centric, aggressive KOM voice that seems to dominate most of the bike industry.
Prof. Ronnie, that wheelbarrow analogy was an utterly incredible explanation of easily comprehendible transferable knowledge. Nothing quite like exaggerating something to aid comprehension.
For those who are looking for the quick answer: It's the rider's shorts length
My wife made a similar comment eh! 😂👍🔥🍆
I've had a lugged frame MTB for a loooong time. I built it and and it's like my best friend. Extremely comfortable. Getting ready to build a new bike so I'm excited but reserved. This is a great video!
Great video, Ronnie! The design & engineering principles you've used explain everything super clearly. Hopefully, you can change some minds about frame materials, bar/stem diameters, seat post lengths, and straight blade forks! 🎉
An often overlooked factor by most manufacturers and many high end bike shops in setting up a new frame is facing the head tube and fork bearing seats. Getting the bearings nicely lined up so they rotate at a consistent torque can make the difference between a bike feeling a little bit twitchy or being a hands free wonder on downhills; and as a bonus your headsets will last a long time.
Quill type headsets frequently coming loose are a good indication bearings may be out of alignment.
One of my old favorite frames came back from a repaint feeling funky, just the overspray on the headtube seats was enough to make it feel a little twitchy when hands free, cleaning up the bearing seats put it back to normal.
PREACH. Biggest omission in setups, along with failure to assay and correct dropout alignment. I always cringe when I see a Chris King headset pressed into a painted or unmachined surface.
good point! I will admit to knowing this, but ignoring most of the time, perhaps to my own detriment --- I was installing headsets with a hammer and 2x4 until a press was gifted to me 10 years ago.
The main triangle is really more of a parallelogram (irregular quadrilateral) since the top tube and downtube don't meet at the same point but are offset on the headtube. Think about how a derailleur parallelogram moves, that is similar to how a frame deflects in the vertical plane.
*but for all intent and purposes* that means F-all because any vertical deflection in the frame is negligible compared to vertical deflection in other parts of the bike (tires/fork)
On the topic of steel vs aluminum, I don't ride steel for the feel, but because aluminum has a cyclical fatigue limit, where the limit is practically infinite in a steel frame. Not to mention there's no need to heat-treat if you need to fix or want to modify the frame in some way.
Could you please explain? So aluminium frame will eventually break at some point in time?
Essentually, Aluminium slowly becomes more brittle and weaker as it flexes over time. It has a low fatigue limit, any amount of flex alters the metal, and the damage is both cumulative and permanent. You will find many Aluminium wheel rims crack as they get older, and frames will get weaker. With steel there is no permanent change in the strength of the material from repeated flexing, unless you bend it beyond a certain critical point. That's why most springs are made from steel.
I enjoy learning from you. I’m curious about all the comments about your appearance. I’m an old woman who almost feels guilty appreciating what i see. You have a wealth of info and you are in great shape. I hate to see unnecessary negative comments
Loved the ammount of concentrated personal info you just put in 10 minutes! I felt your words like my experience after 30 years on two wheels. Fully agree with the new Ideale saddle. Have one and feels so nice to ride. Will try a titanium bar as soon i can! Thanks mate! Karl.
Here’s how you can do your tape experiment on a straight blade fork: firmly zip tie or tape two pencils perpendicular to the fork blade and parallel to each other, say 6 inches apart, one down by the dropout, one higher up. The pencils are facing toward the front of the bike. Then run your tape strip between the ends of the pencils. Any small deflection of the straight tubes will show up as slack in the tape.
I am gonna try this! thanks for the science
Thanks Ronnie, appreciate you company!❤
I have a trek 7200 bicycle, with the Tannus solid tires, no tubes, no air, just solid tires, out of all my bikes too this is my favorite I would never go back too pneumatic tires, no maintenance no Flats no worries absolutely one-hundred-percent the best investment I ever made
So happy to see the Charlie Cunningham shout out! He deserves more credit. Awesome video of course.
100% straight up facts in this video. So many worthless (to the consumer) sales and marketing gimmicks in cycling , it will make your head spin.
That being said, I'm not riding a hardtail MTB offroad much less a fully rigid one... I renounced that decades ago and am *never* going back.
Always a fun watch with the wisdom of Mr Ron! I did learn a thing or two. I have been a steel snob for many years but I am on the road to Al curious now for sure! More videos please - have a great day Ronnie 🌞
For a 30-minute nerdy deep dive, that was surprisingly enjoyable to watch, and definitely got me thinking. I feel you about suspension forks. Had a bad accident due to my fork not being pumped up correctly. The fork nosedived and sent me over the bars and into a tree. Now I'm thinking of ditching it entirely.
Suspension is definitely fun since it can be used to ride in places you probably wouldn’t think of with a rigid bike. But I prefer rigid bikes because of the simplicity and feedback you get from that. Ultimately I see the bike as a fun machine and I don’t want anything complicating it too much. Less to think about before a ride is better in my book
@rollinrat4850 I'm cyclo newbie and I have Suntour's trekking suspention fork and I always wonder - what terrain is too much for it? To avoid any damage and future failure? Hard to find any info on those and it makes me bit nervous not knowing its limits.
@rollinrat4850 Thank for reply. I take my bike to the shop regularly so hopefully service is ok. It's Suntour fork meant for trekking(hybrid?) bikes specifically. It's less robust than MTB forks. I'm not going to jump anytime soon. It's just that I ride some terrain and sometimes I'm like "wasn't this too much for it?" But I guess I'm just overly cautious.
Loves me a great bike nerd / bike tech vid. Great run though of the many factors that make these machines so magical and a few of the most important ones to focus on. Thanks!!
Great video Ronnie thanks for sharing. I don’t agree on straight forks: in my experience they aren’t as compliant and comfortable as the curved ones. 100% agree on 26 mm handlebars and anything else you said.
Would you mind elaborating the differences between a frame with a longer seat tube and flat top tube vs a shorter seat tube and a sloping top tube? Thank you!
Good analogies. I like the skinny tubes, but think the curved steel forks are sexy, lol. Just sent it on my Ultradynamico race series tires at a race this weekend. Steep decline, fresh chunky gravel with no clear paths on a steep HT steel bike, albeit curved fork. It ran true, tires performed well, and seemed sturdier than their tan sidewalls would suggest.
You were helpful in assisting me get them setup tubeless, and I like them quite well.
Good video, love the jorts, lol.
Former serial flatter! Switched to schwalbe and have made it a year (3500 mi.) without a flat! I even had an allen wrench go through the tire (not the tube). Thanks for the video - totally worth the watch!
Schwabs are the way to go if you want reliability.
@@OrangeTree253schwalbes for the commuter, supple stuff for the weekender.
ive been riding for years. coming from a skateboarding background, only this past year have i begun to really tune my bike to my needs. thank you for a great video. very good edit.
I can’t agree more with Ron’s main point. I like to lock in the one or two tires I want to roll, then build the bike around their characteristics and requirements.
I got the book Bicycle Science by D. G. Wilson and have been entertained and educated for like a decade. You can skip the more complex parts and get to them later. It touches just about everything about human powered machines in great depth. A wonderful read if you love bikes and want to get a deeper understanding of the principles.
Love everything you’re putting out past and current. From the Ted Talks at PBE to going over what works for you has me building my bikes aesthetically first with components from the early 90s that will outlast everything else. Thanks for sharing your philosophy and dropping the science on the community. About to switch to friction shifting to try it out and playing around with handlebars.
The 8/9 DA and XT/R still kill it today, especially in a 3x9 format. (No shade on all the 1x kids out there).
friction shifting rules man. becomes intuitive almost instantly, and you can use pretty much any components you want!
@rollinrat4850 was gonna say… who needs more than 10 speeds? lol
Thanks Mr. Romance, I ride steel bikes 'cause I'm poor and they look cool. My main ride is a Falcon of England, mid-80s road bike. It's still equipped with BioPace Shimano 12 speed components. I get a few comments from other graying old dudes who remember this gimmicky. I always thought the frame was a bit small, but I guess I stumbled into something good with the long seatpost and stem. it has moustache bars and skinny tires with an old French hammock saddle, it's served me well for decades with occasional modifications.
You are my first source for bike knowledge. Keep up the fantastic work, you handsome devil.
Are we just going to gloss over the hoochie daddy shorts? 😂 Great video with a lot of information with most of it things I’ve never really considered nor heard discussed before. Most of the focus today is on “slackness” and “modern geo” while skipping some of the more important things. For me, the most important things I look for are bars/grips, saddle, pedals, fork and tires. If I feel comfortable sitting on it and rolling over things I am happy. Tires, I want the bike to be predictable and in control when going around turns/over obstacles. Earned my sub!
A very good video talk about the differences in bike parts and their effect to the comfort or discomfort in riding it.
Thanks for this video!!
Great video Professor Ronnie! My takeaways are these. First, I'm glad to see you gravitate back to your Alumalith with flat bars. It seems you've been riding drops an awful lot lately. Second, your installation of frame pumps. Third, your explanation of seat tube and head tube geometry which to me makes all the difference when considering bike frames and their effect on ride quality. Lastly, the Casa de Ronnie looks like paradise. Oh, and the sword usage is also a nice touch.
you get an A+ on this synopsis
I am the first to admit I am a Western US jingoist but I gotta say your place is really nice. Green and leafy with a morning coffee after sleeping with the house windows open. Oh! And a great discussion that gave me stuff to consider
The world needs a 700x50 race casing Ultradynamico Ronnie. Give the people what they need! Tire mold costs be damned!
Fantastic video! Supper clean and simply put, love it !
Thanks for all the info. Think I'll have to watch this vid about 10 more times in order to fully absorb about half the info you presented to us. Thanks again.
Great explanations and common myths debunking. I , myself prefer steel bikes purely due to aesthetical preference for skinny tubes. When you like how the bike looks you tend to ride it more often.
@rollinrat4850I bet you wear Velcro shoes
Great video Ron! Digging the heady blend of science and wisdom
this is top tier info, and top tier vibes. I feel so much more informed... and so much more comfy. Can't ask for more.
I really enjoy this video every time I play it.
Triangles are the stiffest shape. Imagine if you had a triangle with the corners being pivots. You still can't change the angles of the triangle. Now a triangle can still deform through deflection. A force on a triangle can cause the lengths of the sides of the triangle to change. By the side lengths changing, it'll cause a change in the triangle's angle, causing flex.
I've always had suspicions around the idea of vertical compliance in bike frames. As you say a triangle is intrinsically stiff, no vertical flex there.
So yes, I agree the tyres are doing the work in terms of vertical compliance, and generally the bigger the better, particularly off road.
Your point about torsional flex coming from the tyres was particularly interesting, something I've not thought of, but makes perfect sense.
I also think Aluminium makes a great frame material, and love my Mason Cycles Bokeh, currently set up with 650b x 55 tyres.
However, on the road, where the bike is receiving smaller higher frequency vibrations, and you're also not shifting your weight around so much, I really find the frame to make a difference.
A lighter frame with thinner tube wall thicknesses seems for me at least to do a better job of absorbing road vibrations. It's not to do with frame flex as such, but the way the frame dissipates vibration. It doesn't seem to matter what the frame is made of, all the standard materials, steel, aluminium, Ti and carbon can do this if designed properly.
Again, I find I'm much more fussy with saddles on the road. The combination of high frequency vibration and the tendency to just sit relatively inertly in one position for longer periods means getting the saddle right is much more important. Off road I find I can get by with almost any old saddle.
Funny, I have one the last light Steel dedacciai XC MB from 2001 and I find it less vibrating than aluminium but alive and nervous.
.
But I also have a 1979 road bike - basic frame, wich we would call "made of heater pipe" in France, but with mid 80s high end peripheric and wheels, and I ended by mistake in a long heavy gravel section : even with my road/touring tyres (slick 35mm) with quite high pressure (5 bars), I have found the vibration to be amazingly low on rocks and the bike to be forgiving.
The tubes may have thicker material than light steel frame, but their shape is much thinner. Those may explain why they absord better.
I also have an aluminuim gravel and aluminium cheap road bike and if their tyres are too pumped up I feel the vibrations more than on steel.
Especially from the back of the cheap road bike the fork being steel. The gravel less but it has a carbon seat post and fork. I know it's not scientific so it is not about the suspension provided by the frame itself, but what about the vibration frequency ?
I like my bikes with the supplest tyres I can find, although I don't necessarily always go for the fattest. I really like the tight little "blep" feeling/sound you get when you ride a perfectly tuned supple skinny tyre over a small bump. (like 25-32C)
Another upside of supple tyres is they're usually very light which just makes the whole bike feel more lively
Great stuff - We will never reach nirvana with our bicycles and that's why we keep cycling. constant tinkering and adjustments make us better cyclists and in search for that ultimate ride and bike build. Thanks for a great video.
I enjoyed this video very much and I agree it's all about the tires.
I have had and old steel bike that I got for cheap when I was in college and it was really smooth even on dirt trails. I upgraded to an aluminum bike and everything about the aluminum bike is better except I feel the bumps way more. I think it’s easier to make a cheap steel frame that feels good on rough ground than it is to make it out of almost anything else.
"due to the two axis ... Uh ... theres no place to attach the tape"
instant classic!!
For forks, I find my vertical fork bikes to be more twitchy, responsive? Like less motion makes more of a difference. might be just frames but I've always thought moving the wheel axis forward makes it more like a buik. And it creates sort of a centered resting spot for lower speed stability.
A scientific test of a the gravity aligned bent fork might be possible by seeing how slow you can ride hands free on various forks without falling over.
Might also be interesting to see if you have to lean more or less when cornering at speed. Maybe you could tape a level to the bike and ride around a culdesac in a yellow vest until a Karen calls the cops on you for casing houses?
Anyway... For there are newer stile flared out drops you see on some touring bikes that flex like the swept back upright bar you show and still let you get under the wind. I really like those for a comfortable riding drop.
I am interested in one of your mountain bikes but I must not be going to the correct site because it only shows single speed mt. bikes. What is your website?
My 90s KHS team mtb with Ritchey Logic tubeset has flexible seat stays that bow out away from each other that translates to a vertical compliance. It also has a Kenesis aluminum fork that deflects more than the chrome moly fork it replaced. These are a couple of the things I've discovered.
This was great! So many essential points! Well explained.
Thank you for an amazing explanation on bike riding! You nailed it here. I have been riding for over 40 years and feel that this new cr@p that they keep dumping on us actually makes riding less enjoyable. I have a mid-fat 27.5x3 that had the best of all new technology on it and when I stripped it down to what was needed for my style of riding it fit better and was 6 pounds less. Sorry I didn’t get rid of the suspension fork (but I added remote lockout). I put shorter bars put a longer stem and dumped the stupidest invention since the pogo stick on wheels (full suspension) the dropper post! My mid-fat is aluminum and boy I wish I would have done steel! It creaks it flexes and is not the most comfortable ride. I am moving on to a karate monkey for my next bike. This one will be all ridged with drop bars. I have a set of 27.5x3 wheels and a set of 700x43 wheels for it. People say this is a bad idea because of the boost spacing but I think it will work well for me since I’m a big 270 lb 6’2” dude. Oh and that picture of you off the back of the saddle is what riding is about flowing with the bike! If you know how to ride you don’t need a crutch (suspension, dropper post etc)thanks for the best video on bicycling I’ve ever seen. Keep pedaling.
Kiml😊
Hey, that's pretty interesting! I especially like the comparison of fork blade shapes. I think Jan Heine called it splay. Uh, the movement of the fork reacting to trail bumps.
10:42 How do these saddles perform in the winter? Does the comfort remain in low temps? even down to -10C or below?
Also in general 3-5 hour ride? Have you tried carbon saddles? If so how do they compare? are the leather saddle better for my use? Some told me to use carbon saddles.
I guess they might not be for me, as I ride all year and even in winter in rain, snow. But I know some use leather wax to protect it. But riding with a bag over the saddle won't work for me.
I've not heard of Selle Sideale. So thx for sharing that.
Great to see somebody speaking sense about this. And talking about these topics.
But frame actually makes a huge difference when it comes to geometry, size.
so old school MTB bikes for example you sit too far back, reach is short, cockpit low, so it gives neck, back pain, fatigue, head angle making the bikes wiggly, long stem also makes you swing instead of turn the bar.
But the way your bike is set up and the head tube angle will make it steer nicely. In this case a long stem makes sense, due to the handlebar used, so the hands are in the right spot.
For some reason bicycle industry moved to steeper head angle, big mistake IMO. But now it's making more sense, longer reach and steeper seat tube angle.
3:24 You are right, vertically it won't flex, by side to side the rear end can flex. so some brands claim to tune that to have perfect combo of flex for control, grip, comfort, and not be too flexibly.
I see some frames have weird designs to make it flex, and have elastomer in the seat stay top area, they call it soft tail, but that's usually titanium or carbon frames. But it will barely make a difference I think, IMO that's more hassle than it's worth. might as well get a full suspension bike then.
Finally, practical explanations for bike geometry. I would to see each of these bikes how you got them for a ride.
Do you start with down tube for slacker feel or aggressive.
Then choose the setup after that?
First time viewer of your channel. Thoroughly enjoyed your video! Thanks 🙏
My most comfy bike is a grandpa spec hybrid with a suspension fork, suspension seatpost, 40mm tyres, flat bars with bar ends. I may look like a geezer but it just works.
I agree, my main bike is set up like that, although I prefer swept back "North Road" bars to flat bars. They put your wrists in a more natural position.
Hello professor, I assume you've already tried every possible saddle because you mentioned health issues. But since you didn't bring this up, I thought I'd leave a short note on pressure-relief saddles (the ones with a recess in the middle): depending on the rider's anatomy and riding style, they might not only be a relief for the perineum, but through that they let the basin rotate futher forward. This in turn releases the back (especially upper back), hence improving comfort during those lengthy rides.
I was waiting for the talk about the chain stay length I got kind of excited when you started talking about Rivendell‘s more relaxed geometry.
I am not much on chain stay length -- really depends on how fast and how tight the terrain you encounter --- and if you like hopping over things more easily .... but for pure sitting and cruising with minimal input at speed ---- the riv geo allll the way
Yeah that makes a lot of sense I never even knew there was a difference until a few years ago, I once had a 1980’s Stumpjumper probably had a longer chain stay very long bike large size and rode very nicely that was a shoulda coulda woulda deal I regretted selling it not long after. Dig your videos and get a good laugh out of most of them thanks! @@ultraromance
the zenith overview you have made an impression
I love Ron’s perspective on bikes.
CONTROVERSIAL!
That's what the sticks are for. Poking, stirring and whipping it up!
Really glad to have found your channel. I have never encountered the opinion of an 'alt cyclist' before this, but can now safely say I have found my kin. Thanks for this video!
My obsession led me towards the lightest skinny tire drop bar aluminum bike I could afford and initially I wasn’t disappointed. The weight of my legs alone seemed to be enough to propel me down the road and speed was effortless but the first root crack I hit at speed was so jarring it blew my hands right off of the handlebars. It was then I realized I had to rethink everything
Frame and fork , geometry have a lot to do with the ride. Yes contact points , etc have a lot to do with feel. Geometry makes a bike twitchy, stable, etc. So I'm wondering about this video.
He did explain it in the video, but this isn't about the particular characteristics of certain frame geometries, but more about in which order you are likely to actually feel how a bike rides. The contact points on a bike, with the ground and your body, directly affect that feel. When riding, the tyres will usually flex far more than a frame, a fork will flex more than the frame, handlebars flex and absorb vibration, seats flex and absorb vibration. You feel this directly through the contact points. And the tube shape, wall thickness and diameter have a greater effect on what you feel than just the geometry.
For me the question of high or low trail skirts the more noticeable issue of heat tube angle. Cause you can have a high trail mtb with a slacked out HT and it will ride significantly different than a high trail road bike with a 74 HT. So likewise a low trail mtb (Jones) and low trail road.
You’re obviously right that one can get used to whatever and ride it. But for me, anyway, HT angle is what I always want more of
Ron, you inspire me to get fluffier and jazzier to ride bikes 🎉
This is the greatest video you've ever made. Fave part is about the headtube angle. Keep up the good work!
Off topic, but hoping to see some winter vids from CT. ;)
glad you liked the wheelbarrow science! see you in the snow!
Switching to a Brooks Cambium with the hole cut in it was a game changer for me. Bit of flex and no more post ride numb nob. Moulds to the sit bones too which is nice.
Very sensible. Thank you.
My comment has a very remote connection to this vid, but I still think asymetrcal deflection in the rear triangle and in the fork when braking with disc brakes is dangerous for road bike racers.
Take care and all the best.
I am with you! its a crying shame what big bike has done to road bikes with those totally overkill disc brakes. Suppose the move to larger volume road tires have muffled a bit of the associated ride quality loss
To measure telescopic compliance on a straight blade I think you could attache tape from the straight blade to the head tube or handle bars. As well you could put tape on the length of the straight blade but use tape to back the middle of the strip so you only have 2 contact points and the middle of the tape is free.
I used to be a serial flatter. Oh crap! I just jinxed myself back into it! Brooks Champion Flyer / French Caskets(Rene Herse) / Oury grips are my preferred method of tuning vibrational locomotion.. I make my own leather conditioner similar to Brooks.
oooh forgot to mention comfy grips --- and I certainly hope you remain flat free for a while longer!
ESI grips are the best in this regard
Professor Ronnie knows what's up with bikes. Aligns with decades of biking experience and tweaking I've done.
Just a thought, wouldn't bigger diameter handlebars be more comfortable, because when you put your hand on them, the pressure gets distributed on a bigger area, therefore making the vibrations less painful? Obviously, a handlebar with a bigger diameter will always be stiffer, so there's probably a sweet spot, and it very well might be the 25,4-26mm
Alternatively, just double wrap your bars where you rest your hands most of the time.
Oh yeah, I don't think of that 👍
thx for video, it's nice to watch advices given so clearly, I like your approach to cycling
Ron looking extra buff and ready for ye ol' nutmegger. And great job, video production is off the charts.
I realize it’s highly subjective but how do you recommend I find the dialed in tire pressure you speak of. Is there a formula based on rider weight and terrain and tire size to land in the ballpark and fine tune from there?
I love you man, you’re the bike geek the world needs!
Norm Macdonald didn't die. He got fit, grew a beard, and got into bicycles. He now goes by the name of Ronnie and has a TH-cam channel.
This entire time I thought that a 26.0 stem would be too big for a 25.4 handlebar! Gah, I've spent so much time looking for 26.0 stems on Ebay, they are tough to find. Thanks for the tip, Ron!
Great overview of bikes , pretty much in agreement and too many folks get hung up on one thing providing comfort, tires, saddle, frame, wheels….. ect , where it’s more of a whole package that can make a bike truly comfortable
Thanks, I enjoyed this. It covered so many good topics!
As someone with lifelong stricture issues and surgeries, I've avoided serious riding for most of my adult life. Actually was forbidden to ride by my urologist. I really want to ride though and I was wondering what you thought about noseless saddles?
I’m puzzled. In about 2015 I bought a Specialized Sirrus fitness hybrid. I rode it a handful of times, but never took to it. Ended up selling it. This spring I bought a Trek fitness hybrid. Very similar on paper to the Sirrus I sold. But this one I like the ride? Why? I’m happy I like the Trek, but I wonder what’s different?
Do you think the stress on the crown comes from rebound after the lower deflection? It would be a whip like effect right?
Ronnie, I love your videos. My parents recently moved to Lyme, and my sister lives in East Haddam - perhaps I'll run into you one of these days! Any rides in CT you particularly recommend??
You truly are a doctor in bike science sir. I believe that you are very correct indeed
Muchas Garcias. The wheelbarrow analogy is brilliant.