As someone who has studied traditional seafaring warships, I think a lot of your changes reflect the development of the traditional battleship. Turrets along the centerline for greater field of fire, smaller numbers of heavier guns accompanied by many light anti-aircraft weapons, it all lines up pretty well with traditional seafaring battleship development.
Nick Brine Super-positioning the turrets is certainly something I'd like Star Wars ships to do more often (right now the only ship I can think of that does that is a CR-90). But in addition to the proposed orientation making for an even more vulnerable rear arc than it already has, the idea of focusing on it so much is less useful in Star Wars than in real life. Having so many large cannons is great in real life because the lower tracking speed is negated by the range at which ships engage each other. In Star Wars, ships engage at very near range, and the Rebels use a lot of faster corvettes and frigates. Exclusively super-positioned turrets would be great against other ships its size, but it's not fighting that. And the needed solution to deal with smaller ships would either be to have it be escorted by smaller ships (which could already be done to cover a lot of its current weaknesses instead of a redesign), or have its fighter complement revamped to include more snubfighters, as the inclusion of a point-defense system should pick up the slack (unless the point was to increase anti-fighter measures in general).
Personally I think this video basically outlined British light cruiser development during WW1 and early WW2, from the Bristol and Town class crusiers, to the much better Leander class crusier
RogerWilco I wouldn't say pioneered...more like it codified it, and even that's iffy given the two "wing" turrets mounted on either side of the superstructure.(For those of you unfamiliar with the design, yes these were part of the main battery and the same caliber as the other 3 main battery turrets along the center-line in what is now the traditional position for main turrets on a battleship.) The modern centerline superfiring configuration was first seen on the South Carolina-class battleships after being tested out by an earlier monitor design to make sure superfiring was actually safe.
Um, sorry no. That isn't quite accurate. HMS Dreadnought didn't have superfiring gun turrets. Those came later with ships like he USS South Carolina and Michigan, as well as contemporary British classes. Also, she was predicated upon the idea of an all big gun battery. The only small guns she possessed were some anti-torpedo boat guns added much later. She carried no antiaircraft guns as designed, though may have picked up a few machine guns later during the Great War. Dreadnought was not designed and built with the idea of a balance or mixture of guns of various sizes, including point defense weapons. She just wasn't. Fisher's idea was that a ship with an all big gun armament would be more powerful than a ship with a mixture of calibers, like the predreadnoughts were.
As governor of the Outer rim sector, I would order the construction of 100 imperial III class star destroyer, that should help bring peace and security to the Galaxy.
Emperor: In throne room. Engineer: While walking in with prototype plans for Star Destroyer, accidently activates hologram of its design. Emperor, in his chair, that is far from where the engineer is: "Oh cool, a triangle, that seems scary. I approve your design, build that and nothing else."
"Stacking" guns is referred to as "superfiring" positioning. It was common in the days of battleships. This would solve a lot of problems on the star destroyer, along with lining up it's main batteries along the central ventral hull and keel of the ship so that all guns could fire in either direction or all forward in a concentrated barrage. If the ship was diamond shaped (more like the Executor class) instead of wedged shaped you could also have after batteries that could cover her stern with some of the guns able to "fire over the shoulder" in both directions with limited firing arcs if necessary. At this point, though, we're basically building a diamond-shaped but otherwise real world battleship in space to fight with lasers in three dimensions.
@@JeanLucCaptain Yes. In fact, by the end of WWII most US battleships were relegated to not much more than shore bombardment and served as basically huge floating AA platforms as they were superceded by aircraft carriers. Really, that's what probably should happen in Star Wars as capital ships seem largely ineffective compared to fighters.
My idea: 1. Keep the overall structure the same because it looks cool 2. Make the bridge for observation and visual navigation only (just like a real warship) 3. Move the Combat Information Center (CIC) into the depths of the ship (just like a real warship) 4. Have the 4 octuple barbette cannons on each side staggered diagonally to allow for full frontal attack and mirror it on the bottom side of the ship 5. Point defense for dealing with fighters 6. Use the bridge balls for extended range sensors and move the shield generators from inside of the balls to less exposed positions or inside the main hull if possible 7. DEPLOY THE GARRISON!!!
I agree with what youre saying, however IF this new design is as effective as I think it would be compared to the old ISD II I can see the Empire biting the bullet and buying them while also retro fitting older ISDs. We did something similar with the Arleigh Burke class destroyers in the US Navy when we started making the Flight IIs and also with the F/A-18 E/F and G Super Hornets.
Crusader 4300, I thought about this but went against it due to the nature of the ISD. Increased fighter compliment means more hanger space which reduces structural integrity and also goes agaisnt the primary function of the ISD. The ISD is meant to be a heavy firepower tank of a ship just like our old battleships. All firepower, all armor, and rely on smaller ships for escort and fighter support
Your version is more of a Victory-class descendant, so it may be as well called the Triumph-class Star Destroyer. Or you can put another idea in the name: the Retaliator-class. Civis Imperium est.
I don't know what I would call this ship type, but I would definitely refer to the centralized, rising stack of cannons in the middle of the ship as "Eckhart's Ladder."
Here is how I'd fix the ISD in the easiest way possible. Put point defense on it...Doesn't get much simpler than that folks. It's bridge and shield bulbs are still vulnerable, but it's combat effectiveness increases to a good 200% just from that change.
Something that was never covered in the movies was the Empire's mastery over Microjump calculation tech, using the hyperdrive to jump small distances to get into optimal firing solutions. Thrawn was a fan of this tech and it was used very effectively in some of the Star Wars flight sims. I remember playing Balance of Power and you see a Nebulon B2 hundreds of miles away, you don't perceive it as a threat till it turns towards your squad and jumps right on top of you pouring out fighters and smothering you with turbolasers. This tech eliminates some of the design flaws of the ISD series. Love the idea of the ridge based Octuple banks, it significantly increases available firepower without increasing cost.
HELL FUCKING YES DUDE What would you put on the BC's complements? I dibs on Wraiths and Ravens. (Maybe Vikings if there's enough hangar space for them)
Not much of a contest, actually. Yamato Cannon; the ISD is crippled after the first shot. Then it's a question of a smaller, nimbler ship staying out of range of the remaining working weapons while using it's superior fighters and point defence system to deal with the TIE fighters. The only way the ISD wins is if the Battlecruiser gets too close in the wrong area and doesn't get out of there before the higher output of the ISD main guns actually gets through to something vital.
Guns that are arranged to fire over top of each other like on a battleship are called superfiring guns. If you play a lot of games like Space Engineers or Empyrion where you build your own ships you find that "stairs with guns" type designs really are extremely good at concentrating firepower without restricting their arcs too much.
Here's my personal take: The first, and most obvious is point defense systems. These would help keep enemy fighters at bay. I would add, and even replace some of the turbolaser batteries with laser turrets. However, I feel as though it wouldn't be enough to just put a few laser batteries on the star destroyer. We see that it has the ability to house an CR 90 corvette inside a docking bay, so why not make it carry a Tartan patrol cruiser, or some other corvette. That will prove to be quite effective against fighters, and make up for it's terrible fighter compliment. I'd also add laser cannons to the trench in the ship. Second, I would make the command bridge have a much lower profile, similar to the first order star destroyers, and I'd even go as far as to add in laser batteries on it, to prevent those pesky A-wings from crashing into it. My next idea is one that Captain Piett would love: adding a beam weapon on it. If the Empire can make a superlaser fire through an energy sheild, why couldn't they make a smaller one work on an ISD. We even see Venators using them. They would prove to be quite effective against medium sized ships. And don't give me that overheating BS. Disabling the laser shouldn't blow up the entire ship. It doesn't need to charge up, only cool down. If you have to replace the Tartan cruiser, so be it. This could be added to ISDs that are traveling in packs, while the corvette can be used for the ships on patrols. Finally, I'd add a few more laser batteries and turbolasers to the bottom and rear of the ship. That would help defend said laser weapon, and the engines, from fighter attacks. But those are just my ideas, what do you think about my ship design. I specifically made it so that the Empire wouldn't have to do drastic changes to the design, and keep the base hull mostly the same. And I hope I get a heart from Eckhart. Keep up the awesome videos man. I've been around since the days of the phone mic and random guy's comment dominance. P.S: I'd love to see a U.S.S. Voyager vs Acclamator video.
You could literally take a SPHA, and mount it externally instead of the hanger bay, or if you want the ship to keep its streamline shape take a divot out of its hull and mount the SPHA in that. If you want to be even crazier make it so you can put different things in that divot, and make the ISD modular, which would make it more effective as the main ship of the empire, since it could be out fitted for different missions. you could even leave the divot empty and use it as a hanger bay.
hastati class stardestroyer (hastati is a old roman term. basically it was the first line of every battlegroup) since the stardestroyer is the most used ship in the imperium, i thought it fit
I like your ideas for the Imperial-III, though I'd want to keep the distinctive profile. Keep the bridge, turn the shield bulbs into long range sensor arrays, have your shield generators be internal somewhere - no need to have them be external. Keep the octuples on the side but have a ventral ridge of 4-8 sextuple or octuple batteries. And finally, a point you didn't cover in this video, have a dedicated TIE hangar in the trenches on both sides for faster deployment while keeping the main hangar bay for frigate docking.
Off the top of my uneducated Star Wars head, I’d say the best name for your ship would be a Royalty Star Destroyer, but that’s only if that doesn’t exist in the deepest darkest of Star Wars Legends. Love your vids, and always know we love you!!
The Empire always reminds my of real dictatorships. Big ships and big guns to stroke the egos of their leaders, effectiveness be damned. Dozens of organisations and responsibilities to balance the power and keep everyone else away from power, to the detriment of smooth functioning. A huge and impressive looking army/navy that is good at oppressing civilians but amazingly bad at actual fighting. Political sycophants using their schemes and friends to get promoted way above their competence. A leader more interested in other stuff than actually controlling and administering his realm.
@@battleoid2411 No shit Sherlock. Did you figure that out yourself? 🙄 I made this comment to show how exactly it does remind of dictatorships and why things like huge battleships are maybe a bad design but not unbelievable in the lore...
One thing to consider when locating your weapons emplacements is that concentrating them in one area may make for a denser firing pattern, but it also creates the possibility of one luck hit taking out a much larger percentage of your weapons complement.
Well the easy way to fix that ship is to just basically do everything he suggested for the star destroyer. The Executor is fundamentally just a larger star destroyer so additional point defence, a lower profile command and Shield zone and flattening of the city Scape would greatly help.
Scrap it and build bellators instead, they are still giants in battle, are fairly fast for their impressive size and the Executor class definitely is too much of a ressource commitment into a single place (except against the Vong)
To fix an executor you need the time stone to rewind the event that happened in ROTJ Um not a marvel fan I hated it but the meme does make me appreciate a franchise
You should honestly make a series out of this concept. Running through different ships of sci-fi universes and fixing them, to make them more effective.
I think that the dagger shape armor used should be replaced with a more exaggerated one, like we seen on the pellaeon class, it will increase the firing arc of the ship and make the guns more versitile.
Other improvements TL:DR surface sensors, remove trench runs, rear missile launchers for quick firepower, main long range gun is single ion cannon in ball mount on nose that can also do planetary bombardment, tractor beams on all arcs to stop fleeing ships and hold enemy ships in place for kill shot, and of course secondary shield emitters. Well first off, the obvious improvement for any design would be close in sensors, known as the NEEDA upgrade. Not only would they detect ships sticking to the hull, but little sabotage droids as well, that could be dropped by a passing civilian ship. And it would help the point defense guns target fighters skimming the surface. In that vane, getting rid of the trenches on the ship that proved cover to enemy fighters would be a massive boost to its anti fighter capabilities and survival, as well as optimising the firing arcs of the point defense guns. And that wouldn't increase power demands, it just requires landscaping. For rear defense, against larger ships (corvettes, frigates) maybe save a bit on turbolasers (have just one battery) and use missile and torpedo launchers, they wouldn't take from the reactor's limited resources and could dump a lot of ordinance in a short amount of time to hit hard and disable the enemy ship quick. While a point defense heavy enemy might be able to shoot down some of the incoming missiles, a laser cannon optimised ship wouldn't be a threat anyway. Since it wouldn't be a common occurrence, the missile stocks wouldn't have to be huge (and spares for the heavy fighters could be kept there to be transferred later if needed). The missiles should mostly include ion warheads to disable the enemy ship so the ISD can manoeuvre to either main gun it or capture it, some concussion missiles, and some area anti fighter missiles. The rest of the rear defense should be laser cannons as fighters will try to swarm there and take torpedo shots, and maybe one tractor beam emitter to hold small ships that try to flee by running to the rear, or to keep really maneuverable fighters still for a kill shot. Basically if a turbolaser heavy capital ship was allowed to get to the rear quarter, the captain of the ISD will be answering to the head of HR - Lord Vader. As for the super heavy long range batteries on the front, ion cannons would be most suitable. They can have long range, as demonstrated by the Rebels on Hoth, and are most suitable for stopping a fleeing ship, as blowing away any ship that doesn't immediately respond can sometimes be counterproductive, especially from an investigative perspective, as it prevents boarding actions. And besides, if the captain of the ISD is not sure, ion weaponry gives them the option to go no harm, no foul, afterwards. And as the battle of Scarif showed, disabling enemy ships can be very effective in pitched battle, it also eliminates the capacity for return fire and makes it a sitting duck for your other cannons. For the mounting of the ion cannon, a single cannon in a ball turret on the point of the ships nose provides the best firing arc (as it can cover either side and top and bottom, useful even for close in battles and broadsides), and using a larger single cannon rather than a pair of smaller ones increases the range - if it's able to target the surface of a planet from orbit that opens up a great deal of enforcement options as well. Disable a ground target before landing troops, neutralise defenses, wear down installation shields, and most importantly, warning shots. Populace getting unruly, take out the power grid for a while and it will scare the locals and remind them that they are at the mercy of the ISD, without causing widespread casualties that create martyrs and damaging the planets facilities - they are still imperial citizens who should pay taxes. Finally as hinted at before, more tractor beams, have enough positioned to be able to target all arcs, after all an ISD's main purpose is to enforce imperial order, not for pitched battles against a massive enemy amarda, because, well there isn't one. And besides, tractor beams do have a combat use in holding enemy ships still to target more efficiently and prevent them maneuvering. But it also holds modified freighters in place that otherwise can be just really annoying. And the power for the tractors won't be needed in a pitched battle so having them installed won't take away from the damage output, since it is power that restricts how many guns can be installed. Since apparently gravity well generators are too expensive (really, not even just a small one to prevent hit and run attacks and stop ships fleeing before inspection before you realise they're about to jump and can lock on tractors ?) extra tractor beams will have to suffice. And final finally, secondary shield emitters. Seriously, take apart a Mon Calamari ship and reverse engineer it. But the single best upgrade any ISD could receive would be better screening and training for bridge officers, and maybe safety rails.
Given the significantly lesser energy consumption of even quad lasers compared to turbo lasers even a 10% conversion would already yield a tremendous amount of anti-fighter firepower all around the ImpStar. Plus a large missile launcher with at least 20 launch tubes both dorsal and ventral and you are almost immune to small strike craft.
I would reduce the number of ground troops, not fighters. But the idea is solid. If you put the missile launchers on the dorsal and ventral ridges, you can keep the turbo laser. Missiles can be launched straight up or down without hindering them since they steer to the target themself.
I love the design idea EL! Ship design is always a hobby of mine and I love what you're doing with this and, given the parameters you set out at the beginning of your video, I think that what you have brought up would be an excellent Imperial III
The way you structure the turbo lasers and how their firing arcs would be structured makes me think of a phalanx with all its hoplites having their pikes facing a given direction. That said, I like the sound of Phalanx- class Star Destroyer.
I think the railguns would tear trough AT AT immediately... plus it could fire a missile barrage from significant distance (lore, not gameplay mechanics only)
@@Paerigos and when you see the mammoth prototype it destroys a nod base after shrugging an oblisc hit like a fly hit it. Both kinda employ defensive play to The others main armament.
@@corwinhyatt519 yeah it's quite a beast to take on such a target. Maybe even the larger first order m6 would do good for a match up I'm sure the mammoths rail gun would take the m6 out in 1 or 2 shots and the 4 main guns it has would be over kill. But same for the m6 with its heavy cannon. 1 or 2 shots may take the mammoth out.
tom bogle THe AT-M6 would be a closer match up I think, though it would depend on the range of that cannon in the M6's hull. While the railguns on the Mammoth Mk2 do not have infinite range they might still out range the M6 which would be a fair advantage when combined with the impact velocity of the slugs that the railguns fire. Still, much closer matchup than the AT-AT vs Mammoth Mk2 (honestly a MK1 could give an AT-AT hell :) ).
Cataphract Class Imperator Class Maledictor Class Remorseless Class Conquest Class Conqueror Class Sovereign Class Obliterator Class Bastion Class Mutilation Class Auric Class Judicator/Iudex Class Archon Class
i'll say the same thing as i did yesterday... viscount easily as covered several time by eck the ion cannon just doesn't have enough power to affect a fullsize dreadnought
Also the viscount dread has hundreds of star fighters n bombers..all fast enough to avoid the weapon and shields strong enough to out last any droids the MAL may have resulting in the weapon getting disabled...or you what was already said. .the weapons aint strong enough to over power the viscount
I agree with all of your points. I also have some ideas of my own, some of which my be variations or repetitions of yours, as I was writing this while the video was playing. -Make it bigger, so that you can get rid of the tower and reactor bulge. -Make the ship symmetrical, i.e. same armament on both the top and bottom -Harden the ships systems again EMP and ion weapons if possible. -Add turreted point defense laser cannons (preferably quad laser cannons) with overlapping arcs of fire if possible -Give it multiple redundant shield generators, and make them more discreet (i.e. make them not stick out like a sore thumb) -Reduce the amount of turbolasers, as the current level is frankly excessive. Focus on repositioning the main batteries to give them better firing arcs, and if possible, make them heavy turbolasers. -Place more emphasis on ion cannons, both in the design of the ship, and in combat doctrine. For example, instead of overwhelming the enemy with massive (and frankly wasteful) barrages of turbolaser fire, disable enemy capital ships and their shields with ion cannons, before destroying or further crippling them with pinpoint strikes from your still numerous and powerful turbolasers. -Add ordnance launchers. There can be both fixed and turreted launchers, as well as capital-scale and starfighter-scale launchers. Launcher weapons are vastly underutilized by capital ships, particularly those of the Empire. -If possible, figure out a better hangar bay arrangement. I think the Venator got this right, and that a hybrid design of the Venator and Imperial-II class Star Destroyer that utilizes the advice from the video, as well as what I give here, would be a formidable and flexible ship. -And lastly, get better fighters. I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the Star Destroyer itself, but I still think it bears mentioning. At the very least, take the design of the TIE Interceptor, and give it shields and at least one concussion missile launcher. EDIT: I agree with what you said about how the main batteries are arranged on the ships from the art of Fractal Sponge, I think that's a fantastic way to position them. Your idea of a staircase is also interesting and viable. What do you think about potentially combining the two configurations to some degree? I also agree that a rear flap like that on the Executor SSD would be beneficial. Also, I think that if these, as well as Eckharts improvements are made, it would make for a flexible yet formidable ship. Despite this, I have to say that I think this ship should be deployed with certain others. I think any group of these ships should be accompanied by at least one Immobilizer 418 cruiser, 8 Carrack-class light cruisers. and 12 Vigil corvettes. To anyone who made it this far, thanks for reading, and please let me know what you think of my suggestions!
hc studios no need to do so. As a converted frighter it fought well, and it was an amazing carrier. Most of them were lost due to throwing them in the front.
I think the biggest issue with most space ship designs, especially in less mobile capital ships, is the 2D thinking in the design. Almost all of these ships have tops and bottoms in an area where enemies can and should be on all sides. I think a proper capital ship needs to have the weapons spread over the ship in a manner so as to leave no side without adequate cover to take on the enemies it is designed to engage. That is not to say you shouldn't be able to concentrate a lot of fire in one direction because there is tremendous advantage to being able to do so, but the design of the ship should be focused around it's mission, which for capital ships tends to be as a fleet center capable of directing fire where it is needed without having to turn the ship too much or too often. I would like to see a Star Destroyer design with no obvious bridge, multiple smaller launch bays around the ship so fighters can launch from optimal cover and weapons systems spread out in a way that prevents any one spot from being an obvious choice for focused fire. If anyone remembers what the Tholian ships from Star Trek looked like, I imagine that basic shape design, still a wedge, but with three sides, would be a much more practical capital ship shape for space as there is no belly to create a weak point. And properly placed and stacked weapons points would still allow most of the weapons to fire in the forward arc while also presenting the smallest profile to the target. Anyway. I liked your ideas, but think the Empire needs to take a step off the 2D map into 3D space.
The wedge-shape has an AMAZING advantage that I haven't seen covered yet: ALL of the guns for a broadside, BOTH SIDES, can theoretically be swung forward to bring all of that firepower to bear with minimal spread.
Following up on what you mentioned. 1. Move the commander center down into the hull, add a CIC where the ship is controlled. The "bridge" should be used as an observation deck. 2. Turbo laser ridge could be where you put the high energy long range guns, add some on the bottom. Maybe have 2-4 on top and bottom. I feel it's perfect to engage capital ships. Add optional turbo lasers and laser cannons. 3. Double up the turbo laser banks under the star destroyer, perhaps reduce the octuple setup to a quad setup. 4. So many laser cannons. Fill the rear of the ship with enough firepower to deal with fighter craft.
Eckharts Mk 1 Star Destroyer is the name I'd give for the ship, I believe this would be the ship to replace any vessel within any fleet of the Empire or any faction in starwars. With the designs sounding much like a standard US Navy Battleship/ Cruiser. This ship would major damage to any opposing fleet. The only thing I would add is a good morsel of guns and AA defenses on the bottom of the ship, just to give it some defense from ascending assaults and planetary defenses. They would also make for good cover if you were to send a small frigate or transport to /from a battle field. That's the only addition I'd put on the ship, but that's for you to decide. Anyway keep up the work, love your videos. May the Force be with you.
You should do a video on why the Empire chose to follow the Tarkin doctrine when Vader, a highly skilled military tactician and veteran of the clone wars clearly understood the effectiveness of quality starfighters and multi purpose capital ships
I'd add to your ideas by also: A) Move the shield generators and bridge into the centre on the ship. The ship would be weaker to boarding actions, as all the important parts are together but as far as I know Rebels rarely attempt to do this. B) Remove the majority of windows, especially in important areas. As far as I know the sensors dotted around the ship can tell you about how the battle is going and windows etc are just a vanity for the officers. They seem just either add additional weaknesses or extra costs to make them as tough as surrounding armour. C) I'd add a variety of AA gun types: flak, lazer, missles to make it more difficult to fighters to defend against with countermeasures. D) Possibly change the hangar layout to be similar to Buck Rogers where the fighters are sped out reducing their vulnerability when they launch. Downside being easier to knock out the hangar launch mechanism.
I was disproportionately happy when you said you'd keep the main batteries. Octuple Barbette Turbolasers are basically a meme at this point. Personally, I'd divide the barbettes up to have four dorsal, four ventral, in generally the same part of the ship as they are on the Imperial 2. However I'd put the back emplacements further out and slightly elevated compared to their forward counterparts. This way they can be directed forward for that iconic pizza slice of death turbolaser barrage but you can still bring some of that firepower to bare against capital ships that might move in from another angle. Apart from that, I have a lot of respect for what I'd call the Imperial Star Destroyer type E (for Eckhart) and its versatility as a force projection ship and capital ship. FractalSponge, if you're reading this comment, model Eckhart's destroyer, please.
I commented on this video earlier that I liked your design revisions; now a few days later, I caught a video from Generation Tech about flaws in the Star Destroyer, so I'd like to offer other revisions that may be interesting: (1) Use more hangars to more easily deploy its compliment of TIEs- instead of just the ventral bay, a few side bays can prevent crippling space superiority by taking out the one bay; (2) since it's supposed to carry and deploy a legion of Storm Troopers, a handful of shuttles just wouldn't do- I would suggest dedicated ventral bays for landing craft and their personnel/vehicle payloads a la Acclamator, maybe towards the ventral bow
Very nice overall. I'd name her the Gallantry class. Things I'd do different from your design? 1)My star destroyers wouldn't be quite as wide, being scrunched up, having a "squarer" front silhouette versus a "diamond" shaped one. Gives better firing arcs to the turbolaser ridge. 2)Split the turbolaser ridge between dorsal and ventral to balance out multi-ship engagements. Mine's a barroom brawler, not a sniper engaging a single target. 3) Expand the hangar bay to fill the entire recess seen on Imperial ISDs. Use extra space to carry a detachment of long-range heavy fighters, even if not TIE family, to act as scouts/force application. No smuggler is going to try to fly away from my ship from the opposite side of a planet. He can outrun me sub-light but not my heavy fighters. 4) Clean up and sharpen up the port/starboard edges and concentrate point-defense systems there to increase their firing arcs. 5) Run the ship from a CIC and have a secondary bridge on the belly, making for 3 control points. IRL battleships had multiple places to control the ship from in case of damage. Each had a separate job in battle but could cover from other stations. 6) Increased anti-starfighter targeting for the main armaments to supplement the point defenses. No corvette is outmaneuvering my guns. 7) War stripes. Ten thousand gallons of red paint and my less-scary silhouette doesn't matter anymore. Even if the species doesn't see red, they'll recognize the pattern. Allow a bit of ship customization. You'll be operating in the same sector for a while; might as well let the rebel scum have the moment of "Oh no, it's the ______ again! They're gonna kill us!" 8) Name her the Prudence.
I made a sci fi ship like this once. Star Wars interpretation was something like : Length - 2400m, similar silhouette to Executor, with deeper vertical axis Armament - 4 dorsal gun castles (2 fore 2 aft), 3 ventral gun castles (2 fore, 1 aft). A gun castle is a structure akin to a naval battleship, mounted on the ship's centerline. Each gun castle has 2x twin heavy turbolaser cannons (potential upgrade to quad heavy turbolasers), 2x single ion cannon turrets, 4x quad heavy laser turrets, 4 rotary blaster turrets for point defense. 6 broadside windows/casemates, 4 on forward angled trench (edge between upper and lower hull), 2 on rear angled trench each window can fire SPHA-T style heavy turbolaser beam, defended by continuous beam point defence laser beam turrets 2 upper, 2 lower. 2 guided weapons silos, similar to victory class's concussion missile tubes, though with a range of possible warhead options 6 concussion missile turrets, 2 upper forward flank, 2 lower forward flank, 1 upper centerline, 1 lower centerline, similar to those on Resurgence class Spinal heavy, long-range rotary turbolaser assembly, replaceable with Kyber-fueled siege cannon on flagships Shielding - distributed between 10 overlapping generators, recessed mounting for main generators within dorsal hull, protected by guncastles Hangars - Small hangars in forward hull for small droid fighters for defensive screen Mid hull hangar with side access and ventral bay for main starfighter and bomber wings, as well as docking larger ships without obstructing hangars to fighters. Full on-board fabrication and repair facilities Engines - cluster of 5 in central hull extension, 3 each in arrowhead wings and 3 each in dorsal and ventral centerlines numerous clusters (typically in 5's) distributed over the hull as auxiliary/supplimental RCS (assisting repulsor based steering) Hyperdrive of probably class 2 C&C - Internal bridge with holographic displays to give near 360 view of battlefield, with physical observation "bridge" on ventral hull behind hangar. Very distributed armament, redundant shielding, very large fighterbay/hangar space tied to fabrication bays, surprisingly agile for it's size, with "look-down" focus on it's obs deck / bridge, for all those times the ship is positioned ominously over a planet. The overall theme was for a long-duration patrol cruiser, with enough firepower to overwhelm any smaller foe, and focus majority of it's fire into forward or side arcs if engaging a similar sized foe, and enough room for a named character to have a Yamato style cannon built in.
Inerrant Class ISD! Great vid and great content! Centerline batteries and more point defense emplacements are good, but as other people have opined, the rebels take advantage of the Empire's deemphasis towards small craft/starfighter engagement. Better escorts/changes to squadron or flotilla makeup and bigger fighter compliments would improve the odds, however as a capital ship, it is designed to engage other vessels of similar tonnage, much like marine battleships of the past. Also could the Empire armor or at least set the shield projectors in armored "sunken" alcoves within the main hull of the star destroyers, something to reduce the obvious weak spots. Reminds me when video games have "unkillable" bosses that have random red/yellow "shoot me!" spots... Makes me smile every time...
With all the information you have done on what the empire should have done, i feel like your should do a custom story where the empire uses all your strategy and ideas. It would change the whole star wars story.
That's why they had Lancer class frigates to deal with starfighters an smaller ships. It took elite rebel/nr pilots to get past Ties and Lancers. Great thoughts and design mods. I've never thought of SDs as heavy capital ships, more like heavy long range patrol and enforcement cruisers.
What you've described is what is known in naval artillery as battery super-firing. It is still utilized on a couple of the US cruisers, but our old Iowa and Pennsylvania dreadnought battleships used superfiring on their batteries.
The Imperial Star Destroyer could actually bring all its heavy guns to bear against an enemy ship by dipping its bow downward. Also the Imperial II-class did not have point defense weaponry like the Imperial I-class, but it was built with a heavily reinforced hull, stronger deflector shields, and greater firepower. It's lack of point defense weaponry was compensated by outfitting it's hangar with the more advanced and capable TIE Interceptors, which by the time were already put into widespread production.
Hit the nail on the head on this one. Naval vessels have been stacking their primary turrets on a central line for 100 years now, it's a little foolish to think that would not carry over into space. I would spread the armament out along the ship a little more as there seems to be ample room for them and this would make it more difficult to hit them in a single volley or bombing run.
Destroyer is a term used for dedicated ship destroyers, mainly small ships, almost like frigates, these are more battleships, a simple name change could fix my grips with it
I believe the first destroyers were designed to destroy torpedo boats before they could launch their torpedoes at the bigger ships. Sci-fi ship type naming tends to be all over the place. More often than not, destroyer is the biggest type.
I like the idea that lasers fall off in firepower with range, which is why every dogfight or battle has to be point-blanc. Turbolasers just extend that range more than others but still not by much.
Agreed on the increased point defense system, In universe ISD's are stated to suffer from what's known as "Trench Run Disease" where rebel fighters would stick close to the hull where the larger weapons couldn't get an arc of fire on them. One of the solutions used by the Rebels is what's called Anti-Starfighter Cluster Bombs, which are camouflaged compartments mounted on the hull that, when triggered spit out a cone of magnetic grenades and shrapnel. It's a lot easier on refits to bolt on oversized claymore mines to your hull then it is to rework the power grids and mount new guns. The idea of the central ridge guns mirrors existing wet navy battleship gun placements, which makes sense in a boat that is generally a streamlined hull with only the upper surface to work with. However I'd like to mention how you're putting all your eggs in one basket. Bringing all the weapons to one location gives a bigger target, and lacks redundancy. I'd say go with your idea to split the guns dorsal and ventral at the very least. If one side ends up disabled the ISD can roll on it's axis and bring the rest of the weapons to bare. With regards to the 'big guns' I'd suggest something of an alternative, and take a page from the Victory-I Class Star Destroyer and the Broadside Cruiser. Capital Ship Grade Concussion Missile Launchers. Doesn't take much from the ships power grid, and if the ISD gives up a little room for the onboard ground forces hardware, there's more then enough internal volume to store reloads safely. Adds range, hitting power, and depending on how much variety you can fit the warheads with, a lot more utility.
This is actually exactly why i keep tending towards the arrowehead shape of the ISD (or more accurately, the shape of the executor) when designing capital ships. The idea of using the sloped shape to have all turrets stay out of most of the firing arc of the other turrets just makes more sense and you can have your broadsides all dedicated to forward firing too. its odd how we have not actually seen that approach to canon designs
I would also straighten the tower of the command bridge and the ones under it, because I don't know if you have noticed but they are leaning forward, so the crew inside would be walking up and down, like if they were climbing a hill.
Follow me on twitter! twitter.com/eckhartsladder
Discord! www.discord.gg/eckhartsladder
Ladder- Class Star Destroyer
Thx for providing what we wanted :3
On another note do you know of a game called warframe?
It should have a CIC like the Galactica instead of a bridge at the hull.
Do you think you'll ever do a video on the practicality of the Carrion Spike from Tarkin?
You should somehow make some sort of image or model for it.
1. Put Point defense canons on it.
2. Put Point defense canons on it!
3. I said put Point defense canons on it!!!!
(Sticks a single laser above the bridge)
There. Done.
random guy but what about the bottom..
Perfection.
random guy You've been around forever man.
Christian Haider Plus transfer their targeting to computers. Now you have 100% fighter- and torpedoproof ship.
The Ladder class star destroyer, honoring the designer as well as the staircase of turbolasers!
გიორგი მოსაშვილი would the Turbolaser Ridge then become the Turbolaser Ladder?
A_ Gamer oh you know it!
I think it would be the Somnis-Class Star Destroyer because ladder in Latin is Somnis Scalam
A_ Gamer
Or turboladder?
naw naw.... The "Harteck" or "Harteche"-Class Star Destroyer.
As someone who has studied traditional seafaring warships, I think a lot of your changes reflect the development of the traditional battleship. Turrets along the centerline for greater field of fire, smaller numbers of heavier guns accompanied by many light anti-aircraft weapons, it all lines up pretty well with traditional seafaring battleship development.
It even has a name: Dreadnought class battleships, after the HMS Dreadnought, which pioneered the concept.
Nick Brine Super-positioning the turrets is certainly something I'd like Star Wars ships to do more often (right now the only ship I can think of that does that is a CR-90). But in addition to the proposed orientation making for an even more vulnerable rear arc than it already has, the idea of focusing on it so much is less useful in Star Wars than in real life.
Having so many large cannons is great in real life because the lower tracking speed is negated by the range at which ships engage each other. In Star Wars, ships engage at very near range, and the Rebels use a lot of faster corvettes and frigates.
Exclusively super-positioned turrets would be great against other ships its size, but it's not fighting that. And the needed solution to deal with smaller ships would either be to have it be escorted by smaller ships (which could already be done to cover a lot of its current weaknesses instead of a redesign), or have its fighter complement revamped to include more snubfighters, as the inclusion of a point-defense system should pick up the slack (unless the point was to increase anti-fighter measures in general).
Personally I think this video basically outlined British light cruiser development during WW1 and early WW2, from the Bristol and Town class crusiers, to the much better Leander class crusier
RogerWilco I wouldn't say pioneered...more like it codified it, and even that's iffy given the two "wing" turrets mounted on either side of the superstructure.(For those of you unfamiliar with the design, yes these were part of the main battery and the same caliber as the other 3 main battery turrets along the center-line in what is now the traditional position for main turrets on a battleship.) The modern centerline superfiring configuration was first seen on the South Carolina-class battleships after being tested out by an earlier monitor design to make sure superfiring was actually safe.
Um, sorry no. That isn't quite accurate. HMS Dreadnought didn't have superfiring gun turrets. Those came later with ships like he USS South Carolina and Michigan, as well as contemporary British classes. Also, she was predicated upon the idea of an all big gun battery. The only small guns she possessed were some anti-torpedo boat guns added much later. She carried no antiaircraft guns as designed, though may have picked up a few machine guns later during the Great War. Dreadnought was not designed and built with the idea of a balance or mixture of guns of various sizes, including point defense weapons. She just wasn't. Fisher's idea was that a ship with an all big gun armament would be more powerful than a ship with a mixture of calibers, like the predreadnoughts were.
The Imperial III class Star Destroyer. First in her line, the ISD Eckhart.
I hear the rebels blew up the prototype. 😂😂😂
that IS a good name and appropriate too!
I like it! Send in the imperial III !
Gabriel Iacoboni Then those scum will feel our vengeance a thousand time over.
As governor of the Outer rim sector, I would order the construction of 100 imperial III class star destroyer, that should help bring peace and security to the Galaxy.
Emperor: In throne room.
Engineer: While walking in with prototype plans for Star Destroyer, accidently activates hologram of its design.
Emperor, in his chair, that is far from where the engineer is: "Oh cool, a triangle, that seems scary. I approve your design, build that and nothing else."
Also Emperor: It’s already perfect don’t change anything on it.
But it's not finished yet my lord
Canonically accurate
"Stacking" guns is referred to as "superfiring" positioning. It was common in the days of battleships. This would solve a lot of problems on the star destroyer, along with lining up it's main batteries along the central ventral hull and keel of the ship so that all guns could fire in either direction or all forward in a concentrated barrage.
If the ship was diamond shaped (more like the Executor class) instead of wedged shaped you could also have after batteries that could cover her stern with some of the guns able to "fire over the shoulder" in both directions with limited firing arcs if necessary.
At this point, though, we're basically building a diamond-shaped but otherwise real world battleship in space to fight with lasers in three dimensions.
Also real life battleships carried AA guns wherever they could. Why would a USD be any different?!
@@JeanLucCaptain ISD's were designed to enact the tarkin doctrine. AA support are provided by fighters and corvettes escorts
@@valefor9395
Which we never see for some reason.
@@JeanLucCaptain
Yes. In fact, by the end of WWII most US battleships were relegated to not much more than shore bombardment and served as basically huge floating AA platforms as they were superceded by aircraft carriers.
Really, that's what probably should happen in Star Wars as capital ships seem largely ineffective compared to fighters.
@@177SCmaro it's mostly present at legends battle. I don't see them in any canon battles
My idea:
1. Keep the overall structure the same because it looks cool
2. Make the bridge for observation and visual navigation only (just like a real warship)
3. Move the Combat Information Center (CIC) into the depths of the ship (just like a real warship)
4. Have the 4 octuple barbette cannons on each side staggered diagonally to allow for full frontal attack and mirror it on the bottom side of the ship
5. Point defense for dealing with fighters
6. Use the bridge balls for extended range sensors and move the shield generators from inside of the balls to less exposed positions or inside the main hull if possible
7. DEPLOY THE GARRISON!!!
And increase fighter complement.
I agree with what youre saying, however IF this new design is as effective as I think it would be compared to the old ISD II I can see the Empire biting the bullet and buying them while also retro fitting older ISDs. We did something similar with the Arleigh Burke class destroyers in the US Navy when we started making the
Flight IIs and also with the F/A-18 E/F and G Super Hornets.
Crusader 4300, I thought about this but went against it due to the nature of the ISD. Increased fighter compliment means more hanger space which reduces structural integrity and also goes agaisnt the primary function of the ISD. The ISD is meant to be a heavy firepower tank of a ship just like our old battleships. All firepower, all armor, and rely on smaller ships for escort and fighter support
"Are we blind? INTENSIFY FORWARD GARRISON POWER!"
That might actually work well as a retrofit for existing ISDs. If it looks the same as before, your enemy won't know that the weak points have changed
Your version is more of a Victory-class descendant, so it may be as well called the Triumph-class Star Destroyer.
Or you can put another idea in the name: the Retaliator-class. Civis Imperium est.
Or maybe call it something along the lines of either the "Reprisal-Class" or "Revenge-Class"
I don't know what I would call this ship type, but I would definitely refer to the centralized, rising stack of cannons in the middle of the ship as "Eckhart's Ladder."
"Sir! An Eckhartsor-class Star Destroyer just dropped out of hyperspace!"
...Just kidding, it's actually a Doge-class Star Destroyer.
"Shit... Well Lieutenant, we're not getting out of this one alive"
Bamboozled again.
Doge is actually a pretty neat name since it also doubles as a reference to the title/rank used by leaders in the Italian crowned republics.
*Many rebels screams can be heard*
*Ships start to retreat*
ISD III - The Eckhart
We need a Fractal Sponge render of this... err... Empire I Class Giant Terror Dorito.
Giant flying pizza slice of death!
@@BlackEpyon Italian Galactic Empire
Two dozen quad laser cannons on top of each shield bubble. DONE!
What about 4 dozen eggs
Nah, shield bubbles INSIDE the shield bubbles to shield the shield bubbles!
We need to go deeper!
@@Arashmickey how about an armored and shielded citadel, deep inside the ship that contains CIC room, reactor and some other vital stuff?
Here is how I'd fix the ISD in the easiest way possible.
Put point defense on it...Doesn't get much simpler than that folks. It's bridge and shield bulbs are still vulnerable, but it's combat effectiveness increases to a good 200% just from that change.
One could easily put the bridge in the center of the ship. This is StarWars. We've got lo-res monitor screens and holograms, we can do this!
Bridges? In the ship instead of outside where they can easily be targeted? WHAT IS THIS HERESY!?
Conning tower analogue?
Something that was never covered in the movies was the Empire's mastery over Microjump calculation tech, using the hyperdrive to jump small distances to get into optimal firing solutions. Thrawn was a fan of this tech and it was used very effectively in some of the Star Wars flight sims. I remember playing Balance of Power and you see a Nebulon B2 hundreds of miles away, you don't perceive it as a threat till it turns towards your squad and jumps right on top of you pouring out fighters and smothering you with turbolasers. This tech eliminates some of the design flaws of the ISD series. Love the idea of the ridge based Octuple banks, it significantly increases available firepower without increasing cost.
Minotaur class battlecruiser (StarCraft II)
Vs
Imperial I class Star destroyer (Star Wars)
9th try
HELL FUCKING YES DUDE
What would you put on the BC's complements?
I dibs on Wraiths and Ravens. (Maybe Vikings if there's enough hangar space for them)
Callsign-YukiMizuki most likely it would be Wraiths and a couple Ravens, but Vikings could be a possibility.
plz upvote so eck can see
Not much of a contest, actually. Yamato Cannon; the ISD is crippled after the first shot. Then it's a question of a smaller, nimbler ship staying out of range of the remaining working weapons while using it's superior fighters and point defence system to deal with the TIE fighters. The only way the ISD wins is if the Battlecruiser gets too close in the wrong area and doesn't get out of there before the higher output of the ISD main guns actually gets through to something vital.
The ISD is my guess
Guns that are arranged to fire over top of each other like on a battleship are called superfiring guns. If you play a lot of games like Space Engineers or Empyrion where you build your own ships you find that "stairs with guns" type designs really are extremely good at concentrating firepower without restricting their arcs too much.
Here's my personal take:
The first, and most obvious is point defense systems. These would help keep enemy fighters at bay. I would add, and even replace some of the turbolaser batteries with laser turrets. However, I feel as though it wouldn't be enough to just put a few laser batteries on the star destroyer. We see that it has the ability to house an CR 90 corvette inside a docking bay, so why not make it carry a Tartan patrol cruiser, or some other corvette. That will prove to be quite effective against fighters, and make up for it's terrible fighter compliment. I'd also add laser cannons to the trench in the ship.
Second, I would make the command bridge have a much lower profile, similar to the first order star destroyers, and I'd even go as far as to add in laser batteries on it, to prevent those pesky A-wings from crashing into it.
My next idea is one that Captain Piett would love: adding a beam weapon on it. If the Empire can make a superlaser fire through an energy sheild, why couldn't they make a smaller one work on an ISD. We even see Venators using them. They would prove to be quite effective against medium sized ships. And don't give me that overheating BS. Disabling the laser shouldn't blow up the entire ship. It doesn't need to charge up, only cool down. If you have to replace the Tartan cruiser, so be it. This could be added to ISDs that are traveling in packs, while the corvette can be used for the ships on patrols.
Finally, I'd add a few more laser batteries and turbolasers to the bottom and rear of the ship. That would help defend said laser weapon, and the engines, from fighter attacks.
But those are just my ideas, what do you think about my ship design. I specifically made it so that the Empire wouldn't have to do drastic changes to the design, and keep the base hull mostly the same. And I hope I get a heart from Eckhart. Keep up the awesome videos man. I've been around since the days of the phone mic and random guy's comment dominance.
P.S: I'd love to see a U.S.S. Voyager vs Acclamator video.
Maybe something like the SPHA the republic mounted in the venators hanger bay,
Demo_the _man That's what I was thinking, but I couldn't remember the name of it.
You can see the venator use a beam on a cis magnificent class frigate in the beginning of ROTS
tk4211 that is the SPHA in its hangar bay
You could literally take a SPHA, and mount it externally instead of the hanger bay, or if you want the ship to keep its streamline shape take a divot out of its hull and mount the SPHA in that. If you want to be even crazier make it so you can put different things in that divot, and make the ISD modular, which would make it more effective as the main ship of the empire, since it could be out fitted for different missions. you could even leave the divot empty and use it as a hanger bay.
Still love that outro
CaptainEz Gaming It gets me every time!
hastati class stardestroyer
(hastati is a old roman term. basically it was the first line of every battlegroup)
since the stardestroyer is the most used ship in the imperium, i thought it fit
I think we now need a picture and 3D model of it.
I like your ideas for the Imperial-III, though I'd want to keep the distinctive profile. Keep the bridge, turn the shield bulbs into long range sensor arrays, have your shield generators be internal somewhere - no need to have them be external. Keep the octuples on the side but have a ventral ridge of 4-8 sextuple or octuple batteries. And finally, a point you didn't cover in this video, have a dedicated TIE hangar in the trenches on both sides for faster deployment while keeping the main hangar bay for frigate docking.
Off the top of my uneducated Star Wars head, I’d say the best name for your ship would be a Royalty Star Destroyer, but that’s only if that doesn’t exist in the deepest darkest of Star Wars Legends. Love your vids, and always know we love you!!
The Invicta-Class Star Destroyer
ew
Yes
Trevor 1205
What about, The Superion-Class Star Destroyer
@@roborex6 No I got an excellent one: the Bloodshed-class
The Eckhart-class ISD
what's most important is not the ship itself, it's the officer who comands it being competent.
Ok in reality it just needs some plot armor
i like this thing you did, making it slightly better then it was before
Im early. Dont do drugs kids.
How bout i do anyway!!
@@darthvader4594
This is why Windu doesn't like you
Don't do kids drugs
Deathsticks provides the "high" ground, Obi-Wan approved trick
"Winners don't use drugs, except steroids, in which case use lots of drugs"
Gotta say, I love how detailed oriented your videos are and how you always seem to take everything into account.
The Empire always reminds my of real dictatorships.
Big ships and big guns to stroke the egos of their leaders, effectiveness be damned.
Dozens of organisations and responsibilities to balance the power and keep everyone else away from power, to the detriment of smooth functioning.
A huge and impressive looking army/navy that is good at oppressing civilians but amazingly bad at actual fighting.
Political sycophants using their schemes and friends to get promoted way above their competence.
A leader more interested in other stuff than actually controlling and administering his realm.
Wow, its almost like they modeled it after real world oppressive governments go figure!
@@battleoid2411
No shit Sherlock. Did you figure that out yourself? 🙄
I made this comment to show how exactly it does remind of dictatorships and why things like huge battleships are maybe a bad design but not unbelievable in the lore...
Space Force?
One thing to consider when locating your weapons emplacements is that concentrating them in one area may make for a denser firing pattern, but it also creates the possibility of one luck hit taking out a much larger percentage of your weapons complement.
How to fix a star destroyer 101:
You don't, you upgrade to a bigger ship
I like what you did to the star destroyer, it covered a lot of the weaknesses of the ship.
Please do a "How to fix Executor"
Well the easy way to fix that ship is to just basically do everything he suggested for the star destroyer. The Executor is fundamentally just a larger star destroyer so additional point defence, a lower profile command and Shield zone and flattening of the city Scape would greatly help.
Scrap it and build bellators instead, they are still giants in battle, are fairly fast for their impressive size and the Executor class definitely is too much of a ressource commitment into a single place (except against the Vong)
@@scorpixel1866 that's what I was going to say...
Remodel into the Eclipse. Smooth black, sexy and will blow your flagship into dust.
To fix an executor you need the time stone to rewind the event that happened in ROTJ
Um not a marvel fan I hated it but the meme does make me appreciate a franchise
You should honestly make a series out of this concept. Running through different ships of sci-fi universes and fixing them, to make them more effective.
I think that the dagger shape armor used should be replaced with a more exaggerated one, like we seen on the pellaeon class, it will increase the firing arc of the ship and make the guns more versitile.
After watching ALL of your videos I can't help but chuckle now at star destroyers haha. Great work as always! I'll be signing up for the dischord.
The Ladder- Class Star Destroyer
Mason the Wise
Trully wise choice, must pin that nigga.
Or the Eckharts-class star destroyer.
Commander Knight, either works
The Escalator
@@jerdasaurusrex557 The Eckscalator
An excellent design! A good solution to the star destroyers main flaws, that adresses something ive never thought about. Long range cannons
Galaxies Compared: Personal shield technology compared: Dune, Halo, Mass Effect, Star Trek, Star Wars and Stargate
I'm not sure if this is intended to be a series, but if it is, is say doing the Venator would be a nice episode
The main enemies of the Empire: 'The Rebel Alliance' and Pirates.
ME: And the 'Lunar Fleet'!
Not going to lie, totally thought you meant how to repair one in either legends or cannon. Still worth the watch
Umbaran MHC (Star Wars) vs Covenant Scarab (Halo)
The Umbaran MHC is mostly created to fight soldiers, not vehicles.
scarab stomps. it has infantry support and more bigger guns
Infantry have been crushed before by mhcs
Clone wars
Only liking this for your profile pic of Palp
You should definitely collab with Fractal in re-designing the Imperial II or even making a whole new ship, that would be awesome!
Imperial III? Following the naming convention of the Imperial I and II. Although since this is a major redesign it might constitute a name change.
Other improvements TL:DR
surface sensors, remove trench runs, rear missile launchers for quick firepower, main long range gun is single ion cannon in ball mount on nose that can also do planetary bombardment, tractor beams on all arcs to stop fleeing ships and hold enemy ships in place for kill shot, and of course secondary shield emitters.
Well first off, the obvious improvement for any design would be close in sensors, known as the NEEDA upgrade. Not only would they detect ships sticking to the hull, but little sabotage droids as well, that could be dropped by a passing civilian ship. And it would help the point defense guns target fighters skimming the surface.
In that vane, getting rid of the trenches on the ship that proved cover to enemy fighters would be a massive boost to its anti fighter capabilities and survival, as well as optimising the firing arcs of the point defense guns. And that wouldn't increase power demands, it just requires landscaping.
For rear defense, against larger ships (corvettes, frigates) maybe save a bit on turbolasers (have just one battery) and use missile and torpedo launchers, they wouldn't take from the reactor's limited resources and could dump a lot of ordinance in a short amount of time to hit hard and disable the enemy ship quick. While a point defense heavy enemy might be able to shoot down some of the incoming missiles, a laser cannon optimised ship wouldn't be a threat anyway.
Since it wouldn't be a common occurrence, the missile stocks wouldn't have to be huge (and spares for the heavy fighters could be kept there to be transferred later if needed). The missiles should mostly include ion warheads to disable the enemy ship so the ISD can manoeuvre to either main gun it or capture it, some concussion missiles, and some area anti fighter missiles. The rest of the rear defense should be laser cannons as fighters will try to swarm there and take torpedo shots, and maybe one tractor beam emitter to hold small ships that try to flee by running to the rear, or to keep really maneuverable fighters still for a kill shot. Basically if a turbolaser heavy capital ship was allowed to get to the rear quarter, the captain of the ISD will be answering to the head of HR - Lord Vader.
As for the super heavy long range batteries on the front, ion cannons would be most suitable. They can have long range, as demonstrated by the Rebels on Hoth, and are most suitable for stopping a fleeing ship, as blowing away any ship that doesn't immediately respond can sometimes be counterproductive, especially from an investigative perspective, as it prevents boarding actions. And besides, if the captain of the ISD is not sure, ion weaponry gives them the option to go no harm, no foul, afterwards. And as the battle of Scarif showed, disabling enemy ships can be very effective in pitched battle, it also eliminates the capacity for return fire and makes it a sitting duck for your other cannons. For the mounting of the ion cannon, a single cannon in a ball turret on the point of the ships nose provides the best firing arc (as it can cover either side and top and bottom, useful even for close in battles and broadsides), and using a larger single cannon rather than a pair of smaller ones increases the range - if it's able to target the surface of a planet from orbit that opens up a great deal of enforcement options as well. Disable a ground target before landing troops, neutralise defenses, wear down installation shields, and most importantly, warning shots. Populace getting unruly, take out the power grid for a while and it will scare the locals and remind them that they are at the mercy of the ISD, without causing widespread casualties that create martyrs and damaging the planets facilities - they are still imperial citizens who should pay taxes.
Finally as hinted at before, more tractor beams, have enough positioned to be able to target all arcs, after all an ISD's main purpose is to enforce imperial order, not for pitched battles against a massive enemy amarda, because, well there isn't one. And besides, tractor beams do have a combat use in holding enemy ships still to target more efficiently and prevent them maneuvering. But it also holds modified freighters in place that otherwise can be just really annoying. And the power for the tractors won't be needed in a pitched battle so having them installed won't take away from the damage output, since it is power that restricts how many guns can be installed.
Since apparently gravity well generators are too expensive (really, not even just a small one to prevent hit and run attacks and stop ships fleeing before inspection before you realise they're about to jump and can lock on tractors ?) extra tractor beams will have to suffice.
And final finally, secondary shield emitters. Seriously, take apart a Mon Calamari ship and reverse engineer it.
But the single best upgrade any ISD could receive would be better screening and training for bridge officers, and maybe safety rails.
Given the significantly lesser energy consumption of even quad lasers compared to turbo lasers even a 10% conversion would already yield a tremendous amount of anti-fighter firepower all around the ImpStar.
Plus a large missile launcher with at least 20 launch tubes both dorsal and ventral and you are almost immune to small strike craft.
I would reduce the number of ground troops, not fighters.
But the idea is solid. If you put the missile launchers on the dorsal and ventral ridges, you can keep the turbo laser.
Missiles can be launched straight up or down without hindering them since they steer to the target themself.
It would be really cool to see fractalsponge bring this design to life.
If you could designs the ultimate ship design what would it be?
Make the bellator a mcdouble star destroyer...
I love the design idea EL! Ship design is always a hobby of mine and I love what you're doing with this and, given the parameters you set out at the beginning of your video, I think that what you have brought up would be an excellent Imperial III
The way you structure the turbo lasers and how their firing arcs would be structured makes me think of a phalanx with all its hoplites having their pikes facing a given direction. That said, I like the sound of Phalanx- class Star Destroyer.
Reprisal, Revenge, Triumph, or Retaliator could also work as class names for this ship
How about the mammoth mk2 from command and conquer vs the AT-AT for your next versus match you do?
I think the railguns would tear trough AT AT immediately... plus it could fire a missile barrage from significant distance (lore, not gameplay mechanics only)
@@Paerigos and when you see the mammoth prototype it destroys a nod base after shrugging an oblisc hit like a fly hit it. Both kinda employ defensive play to The others main armament.
Paerigos Ya, the Mammoth Mk2 is a bit out of the AT-ATs league since all of the Mammoth's weapons systems out range the AT-AT.
@@corwinhyatt519 yeah it's quite a beast to take on such a target. Maybe even the larger first order m6 would do good for a match up I'm sure the mammoths rail gun would take the m6 out in 1 or 2 shots and the 4 main guns it has would be over kill. But same for the m6 with its heavy cannon. 1 or 2 shots may take the mammoth out.
tom bogle THe AT-M6 would be a closer match up I think, though it would depend on the range of that cannon in the M6's hull. While the railguns on the Mammoth Mk2 do not have infinite range they might still out range the M6 which would be a fair advantage when combined with the impact velocity of the slugs that the railguns fire. Still, much closer matchup than the AT-AT vs Mammoth Mk2 (honestly a MK1 could give an AT-AT hell :) ).
Cataphract Class
Imperator Class
Maledictor Class
Remorseless Class
Conquest Class
Conqueror Class
Sovereign Class
Obliterator Class
Bastion Class
Mutilation Class
Auric Class
Judicator/Iudex Class
Archon Class
Viscount Class Star Defender VS 2 of the MALEVOLENCE (Subjagator Class Heavy Cruiser)
34th Try
your amount of tries is irrelevant,
i'll say the same thing as i did yesterday...
viscount easily as covered several time by eck the ion cannon just doesn't have enough power to affect a fullsize dreadnought
Also the viscount dread has hundreds of star fighters n bombers..all fast enough to avoid the weapon and shields strong enough to out last any droids the MAL may have resulting in the weapon getting disabled...or you what was already said.
.the weapons aint strong enough to over power the viscount
Alternate title Pellaeon-Class Breakdown
UNSC ship vs Sullaco from Aliens
I agree with all of your points. I also have some ideas of my own, some of which my be variations or repetitions of yours, as I was writing this while the video was playing.
-Make it bigger, so that you can get rid of the tower and reactor bulge.
-Make the ship symmetrical, i.e. same armament on both the top and bottom
-Harden the ships systems again EMP and ion weapons if possible.
-Add turreted point defense laser cannons (preferably quad laser cannons) with overlapping arcs of fire if possible
-Give it multiple redundant shield generators, and make them more discreet (i.e. make them not stick out like a sore thumb)
-Reduce the amount of turbolasers, as the current level is frankly excessive. Focus on repositioning the main batteries to give them better firing arcs, and if possible, make them heavy turbolasers.
-Place more emphasis on ion cannons, both in the design of the ship, and in combat doctrine. For example, instead of overwhelming the enemy with massive (and frankly wasteful) barrages of turbolaser fire, disable enemy capital ships and their shields with ion cannons, before destroying or further crippling them with pinpoint strikes from your still numerous and powerful turbolasers.
-Add ordnance launchers. There can be both fixed and turreted launchers, as well as capital-scale and starfighter-scale launchers. Launcher weapons are vastly underutilized by capital ships, particularly those of the Empire.
-If possible, figure out a better hangar bay arrangement. I think the Venator got this right, and that a hybrid design of the Venator and Imperial-II class Star Destroyer that utilizes the advice from the video, as well as what I give here, would be a formidable and flexible ship.
-And lastly, get better fighters. I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the Star Destroyer itself, but I still think it bears mentioning. At the very least, take the design of the TIE Interceptor, and give it shields and at least one concussion missile launcher.
EDIT: I agree with what you said about how the main batteries are arranged on the ships from the art of Fractal Sponge, I think that's a fantastic way to position them. Your idea of a staircase is also interesting and viable. What do you think about potentially combining the two configurations to some degree? I also agree that a rear flap like that on the Executor SSD would be beneficial. Also, I think that if these, as well as Eckharts improvements are made, it would make for a flexible yet formidable ship. Despite this, I have to say that I think this ship should be deployed with certain others. I think any group of these ships should be accompanied by at least one Immobilizer 418 cruiser, 8 Carrack-class light cruisers. and 12 Vigil corvettes.
To anyone who made it this far, thanks for reading, and please let me know what you think of my suggestions!
Can you fix a lucerhulk class battleship
hc studios no need to do so. As a converted frighter it fought well, and it was an amazing carrier. Most of them were lost due to throwing them in the front.
The battleship variant of the Luchrehulk really doesn't need much if any fixing imo. The control ship variant on the other hand…
Now I'd like to see Fractalsponge creating the new ship you described. I think it would look great!
I think the biggest issue with most space ship designs, especially in less mobile capital ships, is the 2D thinking in the design. Almost all of these ships have tops and bottoms in an area where enemies can and should be on all sides.
I think a proper capital ship needs to have the weapons spread over the ship in a manner so as to leave no side without adequate cover to take on the enemies it is designed to engage.
That is not to say you shouldn't be able to concentrate a lot of fire in one direction because there is tremendous advantage to being able to do so, but the design of the ship should be focused around it's mission, which for capital ships tends to be as a fleet center capable of directing fire where it is needed without having to turn the ship too much or too often.
I would like to see a Star Destroyer design with no obvious bridge, multiple smaller launch bays around the ship so fighters can launch from optimal cover and weapons systems spread out in a way that prevents any one spot from being an obvious choice for focused fire.
If anyone remembers what the Tholian ships from Star Trek looked like, I imagine that basic shape design, still a wedge, but with three sides, would be a much more practical capital ship shape for space as there is no belly to create a weak point. And properly placed and stacked weapons points would still allow most of the weapons to fire in the forward arc while also presenting the smallest profile to the target.
Anyway. I liked your ideas, but think the Empire needs to take a step off the 2D map into 3D space.
So what you're saying about capital ship designers is basically...
th-cam.com/video/RbTUTNenvCY/w-d-xo.html
The wedge-shape has an AMAZING advantage that I haven't seen covered yet: ALL of the guns for a broadside, BOTH SIDES, can theoretically be swung forward to bring all of that firepower to bear with minimal spread.
I love this video its so balanced thanks Eckhards for another great vid
Always loved the music in your vids! And now I finally know what song it is. You are amazing EckhartsLadder keep up the amazing work!
Following up on what you mentioned.
1. Move the commander center down into the hull, add a CIC where the ship is controlled. The "bridge" should be used as an observation deck.
2. Turbo laser ridge could be where you put the high energy long range guns, add some on the bottom. Maybe have 2-4 on top and bottom. I feel it's perfect to engage capital ships. Add optional turbo lasers and laser cannons.
3. Double up the turbo laser banks under the star destroyer, perhaps reduce the octuple setup to a quad setup.
4. So many laser cannons. Fill the rear of the ship with enough firepower to deal with fighter craft.
Eckharts Mk 1 Star Destroyer is the name I'd give for the ship, I believe this would be the ship to replace any vessel within any fleet of the Empire or any faction in starwars.
With the designs sounding much like a standard US Navy Battleship/ Cruiser. This ship would major damage to any opposing fleet. The only thing I would add is a good morsel of guns and AA defenses on the bottom of the ship, just to give it some defense from ascending assaults and planetary defenses. They would also make for good cover if you were to send a small frigate or transport to /from a battle field. That's the only addition I'd put on the ship, but that's for you to decide. Anyway keep up the work, love your videos.
May the Force be with you.
i would love to see fractalsponge put your updates on a star destroyer so we can see how it looks
Your outro gets me every time
You should do a video on why the Empire chose to follow the Tarkin doctrine when Vader, a highly skilled military tactician and veteran of the clone wars clearly understood the effectiveness of quality starfighters and multi purpose capital ships
I don't really think Vader knows much of multi-purpose capital ships.
I'd add to your ideas by also:
A) Move the shield generators and bridge into the centre on the ship. The ship would be weaker to boarding actions, as all the important parts are together but as far as I know Rebels rarely attempt to do this.
B) Remove the majority of windows, especially in important areas. As far as I know the sensors dotted around the ship can tell you about how the battle is going and windows etc are just a vanity for the officers. They seem just either add additional weaknesses or extra costs to make them as tough as surrounding armour.
C) I'd add a variety of AA gun types: flak, lazer, missles to make it more difficult to fighters to defend against with countermeasures.
D) Possibly change the hangar layout to be similar to Buck Rogers where the fighters are sped out reducing their vulnerability when they launch. Downside being easier to knock out the hangar launch mechanism.
Vanquisher Class, seeing as this is more versed in dealing with the enemies the empire was facing
I was disproportionately happy when you said you'd keep the main batteries. Octuple Barbette Turbolasers are basically a meme at this point. Personally, I'd divide the barbettes up to have four dorsal, four ventral, in generally the same part of the ship as they are on the Imperial 2. However I'd put the back emplacements further out and slightly elevated compared to their forward counterparts. This way they can be directed forward for that iconic pizza slice of death turbolaser barrage but you can still bring some of that firepower to bare against capital ships that might move in from another angle. Apart from that, I have a lot of respect for what I'd call the Imperial Star Destroyer type E (for Eckhart) and its versatility as a force projection ship and capital ship.
FractalSponge, if you're reading this comment, model Eckhart's destroyer, please.
I commented on this video earlier that I liked your design revisions; now a few days later, I caught a video from Generation Tech about flaws in the Star Destroyer, so I'd like to offer other revisions that may be interesting: (1) Use more hangars to more easily deploy its compliment of TIEs- instead of just the ventral bay, a few side bays can prevent crippling space superiority by taking out the one bay; (2) since it's supposed to carry and deploy a legion of Storm Troopers, a handful of shuttles just wouldn't do- I would suggest dedicated ventral bays for landing craft and their personnel/vehicle payloads a la Acclamator, maybe towards the ventral bow
Very nice overall. I'd name her the Gallantry class.
Things I'd do different from your design?
1)My star destroyers wouldn't be quite as wide, being scrunched up, having a "squarer" front silhouette versus a "diamond" shaped one. Gives better firing arcs to the turbolaser ridge.
2)Split the turbolaser ridge between dorsal and ventral to balance out multi-ship engagements. Mine's a barroom brawler, not a sniper engaging a single target.
3) Expand the hangar bay to fill the entire recess seen on Imperial ISDs. Use extra space to carry a detachment of long-range heavy fighters, even if not TIE family, to act as scouts/force application. No smuggler is going to try to fly away from my ship from the opposite side of a planet. He can outrun me sub-light but not my heavy fighters.
4) Clean up and sharpen up the port/starboard edges and concentrate point-defense
systems there to increase their firing arcs.
5) Run the ship from a CIC and have a secondary bridge on the belly, making for 3 control points. IRL battleships had multiple places to control the ship from in case of damage. Each had a separate job in battle but could cover from other stations.
6) Increased anti-starfighter targeting for the main armaments to supplement the point defenses. No corvette is outmaneuvering my guns.
7) War stripes. Ten thousand gallons of red paint and my less-scary silhouette doesn't matter anymore. Even if the species doesn't see red, they'll recognize the pattern. Allow a bit of ship customization. You'll be operating in the same sector for a while; might as well let the rebel scum have the moment of "Oh no, it's the ______ again! They're gonna kill us!"
8) Name her the Prudence.
I made a sci fi ship like this once. Star Wars interpretation was something like :
Length - 2400m, similar silhouette to Executor, with deeper vertical axis
Armament - 4 dorsal gun castles (2 fore 2 aft), 3 ventral gun castles (2 fore, 1 aft). A gun castle is a structure akin to a naval battleship, mounted on the ship's centerline.
Each gun castle has 2x twin heavy turbolaser cannons (potential upgrade to quad heavy turbolasers), 2x single ion cannon turrets, 4x quad heavy laser turrets, 4 rotary blaster turrets for point defense.
6 broadside windows/casemates, 4 on forward angled trench (edge between upper and lower hull), 2 on rear angled trench
each window can fire SPHA-T style heavy turbolaser beam, defended by continuous beam point defence laser beam turrets 2 upper, 2 lower.
2 guided weapons silos, similar to victory class's concussion missile tubes, though with a range of possible warhead options
6 concussion missile turrets, 2 upper forward flank, 2 lower forward flank, 1 upper centerline, 1 lower centerline, similar to those on Resurgence class
Spinal heavy, long-range rotary turbolaser assembly, replaceable with Kyber-fueled siege cannon on flagships
Shielding - distributed between 10 overlapping generators, recessed mounting for main generators within dorsal hull, protected by guncastles
Hangars - Small hangars in forward hull for small droid fighters for defensive screen
Mid hull hangar with side access and ventral bay for main starfighter and bomber wings, as well as docking larger ships without obstructing hangars to fighters.
Full on-board fabrication and repair facilities
Engines - cluster of 5 in central hull extension, 3 each in arrowhead wings and 3 each in dorsal and ventral centerlines
numerous clusters (typically in 5's) distributed over the hull as auxiliary/supplimental RCS (assisting repulsor based steering)
Hyperdrive of probably class 2
C&C - Internal bridge with holographic displays to give near 360 view of battlefield, with physical observation "bridge" on ventral hull behind hangar.
Very distributed armament, redundant shielding, very large fighterbay/hangar space tied to fabrication bays, surprisingly agile for it's size, with "look-down" focus on it's obs deck / bridge, for all those times the ship is positioned ominously over a planet. The overall theme was for a long-duration patrol cruiser, with enough firepower to overwhelm any smaller foe, and focus majority of it's fire into forward or side arcs if engaging a similar sized foe, and enough room for a named character to have a Yamato style cannon built in.
Inerrant Class ISD!
Great vid and great content!
Centerline batteries and more point defense emplacements are good, but as other people have opined, the rebels take advantage of the Empire's deemphasis towards small craft/starfighter engagement. Better escorts/changes to squadron or flotilla makeup and bigger fighter compliments would improve the odds, however as a capital ship, it is designed to engage other vessels of similar tonnage, much like marine battleships of the past.
Also could the Empire armor or at least set the shield projectors in armored "sunken" alcoves within the main hull of the star destroyers, something to reduce the obvious weak spots. Reminds me when video games have "unkillable" bosses that have random red/yellow "shoot me!" spots... Makes me smile every time...
Eckhart-class Star Destroyer, obviously
With all the information you have done on what the empire should have done, i feel like your should do a custom story where the empire uses all your strategy and ideas. It would change the whole star wars story.
That's why they had Lancer class frigates to deal with starfighters an smaller ships. It took elite rebel/nr pilots to get past Ties and Lancers. Great thoughts and design mods. I've never thought of SDs as heavy capital ships, more like heavy long range patrol and enforcement cruisers.
Where is Benjamin Hartman-Seesking, the guy who suggested this video? I LOVE YOU!!!
What you've described is what is known in naval artillery as battery super-firing. It is still utilized on a couple of the US cruisers, but our old Iowa and Pennsylvania dreadnought battleships used superfiring on their batteries.
The Imperial Star Destroyer could actually bring all its heavy guns to bear against an enemy ship by dipping its bow downward. Also the Imperial II-class did not have point defense weaponry like the Imperial I-class, but it was built with a heavily reinforced hull, stronger deflector shields, and greater firepower. It's lack of point defense weaponry was compensated by outfitting it's hangar with the more advanced and capable TIE Interceptors, which by the time were already put into widespread production.
The ascension in honor of the ascending turbolaser batteries and because I like the name
Hit the nail on the head on this one. Naval vessels have been stacking their primary turrets on a central line for 100 years now, it's a little foolish to think that would not carry over into space. I would spread the armament out along the ship a little more as there seems to be ample room for them and this would make it more difficult to hit them in a single volley or bombing run.
Eckhart-class Star Doggo
Destroyer is a term used for dedicated ship destroyers, mainly small ships, almost like frigates, these are more battleships, a simple name change could fix my grips with it
I believe the first destroyers were designed to destroy torpedo boats before they could launch their torpedoes at the bigger ships. Sci-fi ship type naming tends to be all over the place. More often than not, destroyer is the biggest type.
@@Kissamiess
Historically speaking
@@Kissamiess in some scifi a Cruiser is heaviest type.
I like the idea that lasers fall off in firepower with range, which is why every dogfight or battle has to be point-blanc. Turbolasers just extend that range more than others but still not by much.
Agreed on the increased point defense system, In universe ISD's are stated to suffer from what's known as "Trench Run Disease" where rebel fighters would stick close to the hull where the larger weapons couldn't get an arc of fire on them. One of the solutions used by the Rebels is what's called Anti-Starfighter Cluster Bombs, which are camouflaged compartments mounted on the hull that, when triggered spit out a cone of magnetic grenades and shrapnel. It's a lot easier on refits to bolt on oversized claymore mines to your hull then it is to rework the power grids and mount new guns.
The idea of the central ridge guns mirrors existing wet navy battleship gun placements, which makes sense in a boat that is generally a streamlined hull with only the upper surface to work with. However I'd like to mention how you're putting all your eggs in one basket. Bringing all the weapons to one location gives a bigger target, and lacks redundancy. I'd say go with your idea to split the guns dorsal and ventral at the very least. If one side ends up disabled the ISD can roll on it's axis and bring the rest of the weapons to bare.
With regards to the 'big guns' I'd suggest something of an alternative, and take a page from the Victory-I Class Star Destroyer and the Broadside Cruiser. Capital Ship Grade Concussion Missile Launchers. Doesn't take much from the ships power grid, and if the ISD gives up a little room for the onboard ground forces hardware, there's more then enough internal volume to store reloads safely. Adds range, hitting power, and depending on how much variety you can fit the warheads with, a lot more utility.
Now I know my next starship design~! Thanks Ecks!
Introducing the eckhart class star destroyer!
Great, all we need is an awesome individual (fractalsponge...) to commission this work of art and death!
Make the Empire Great again - Vote for Eckharts ladder!
Dang ur design in my opinion look way better! Great job!
You should do this for other ships. I like these type of videos were people attempt to solve problems.
I'd love to see fractalsponge make your redesigned star destroyer
The eckharts-class star destroyer
Sounds like an intimidating ship
This is actually exactly why i keep tending towards the arrowehead shape of the ISD (or more accurately, the shape of the executor) when designing capital ships. The idea of using the sloped shape to have all turrets stay out of most of the firing arc of the other turrets just makes more sense and you can have your broadsides all dedicated to forward firing too. its odd how we have not actually seen that approach to canon designs
The Eckhart-Class Star Destroyer
I love these kinds of videos, Venator next?
I would also straighten the tower of the command bridge and the ones under it, because I don't know if you have noticed but they are leaning forward, so the crew inside would be walking up and down, like if they were climbing a hill.