Today's video features some new music by the artist Unfound. I'd like to make music more prominent in my videos, but I still consider myself new at video making, so I don't want to mix the audio with the music being too loud. It's louder in this video, and could probably be even louder. Let me know your thoughts. Links to the included music, and Unfound's Bandcamp: Unfound -- Without: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqOlh... Unfound -- Heaven: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBIsi... Unfound -- Home: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWYkh... Unfound's bandcamp: unfoundmusic.bandcamp.com/
If I remember the speed figures right, speed 6 (in the RPGs) was about equal to 75 in the X-Wing games, and 8 was equal to 100? So the Lancer may have been rated somewhere below those...
@@attilathehun5067 I don't know much about cannon, the disney movies really put me off the current extended universe. I still love star wars and I'm hoping the next movie is amazing and all will be well but for the moment I don't hold much of an interest in disney cannon.
@@cherudiumSome of the new Canon is crappy, I admit, but some is good. I highly suggest reading the new Thrawn books, as well as Tarkin. They're really good. I'm reading Thrawn right now, actually.
How to troll your enemies: 1: take some Nebulon Bs 2: put all the armour and shields on the middle bit 3: watch the enemy fail at destroying them while you blow them up
To be fare realistically highly specialized ships should be skipped unless a more generalized design "Can Not" do the job the old Vindicator cruiser is a good example of the type of ship I would build in mass you need to remember fleets fight very very few fleet battles but need to spend lots of time patrolling often as single ships so designing based on fleet engagements is kind of silly. You should be focusing on large amounts of general purpose ships backed up by a small but powerful fast reaction force
@@xerty5502 so you have a sector armada, you have patrol groups based on arquatens, arc 170s, hyperdrive starfighter wings and gunships, all use tracker missiles, and you have atleast 3 primary responce fleets that are more suited for a fight. Finally you have your core battle fleet, which will respond to any major conflict that challenge the response fleets. Traditional fleets are a pyramid structure.
@@xerty5502 Well actually for patrolling the Lancer is perfect since you tend to deal with a bunch of smaller ships when patrolling and having appropriate firepower for those situations is better. I think the Lancer would make one of the best patrol craft.
@@ilo3456 going to have to disagree there I personally believe the lancer is only really practical as a screening vessel it is to specialized to make a good multi purpose patrol ship while I agree it is a much better anti fighter craft then an arquintes or carrack both these are a better choice as a multi purpose light ship you probably could come up with an even better ship for this purpose but it would not be the lancer. That said you are free to disagree with me but trying to convince me a super specialized single purpose ship is a good multi purpose ship is going to take some doing.
Scenario: You are the admiral of an Imperial fleet assigned to conquer the heavily fortified Mon Cala system, you must break through the rebel defenses and protect a planetary invasion force. Your fleet cannot be larger than Death Squadron at Endor, but you have your pick if whatever ships the Empire had outside of the Eclipse class. What ships would you choose and how would you use them? (Third attempt) #AskEck
Interdictors for sure, and heavy firepower ships like Bellators and Alliegances flanked by smaller, faster ships like Victories and a few Lancers for PD.
Im assuming mon cala would have super weapon producing dry docks and Golan 3s dotted around, plus a home fleet with maybe a mon remonda or mc90 and other late GCW rebellion cruisers plus nebulons and cr90s?
1) Field TIE Defenders. 2) Field TIE Defenders. 3) Field TIE Defenders. 4) Field TIE Defenders. 5) Just blasted field TIE Defenders instead of wasting credits on a death ball.
Those death balls are good for numbers though, perhaps go with death ball 2.0 now with shields and proper range of vision. But I would field atleast one wing of defenders.
This is from an old game that ILM helped with. It was called Star Wars Rebellion. In it TIE's and TIE Interceptors cost the same to maintain and about the same to produce. TIE defenders cost about 2.67 to produce and about 2 times to maintain than a TIE Interceptor. But the TIE Defender was way more effective than TIE Interceptors. TIE Interceptors were good on attack, but could be quickly overwhelmed by Rebel Fighters. TIE Defenders were good on attack and defense, and could take a lot of punishment (their shields were the strongest of any fighter in the game).
@@o00nemesis00o yeah attacking a planet did not engender any need to actually go out and attack. Just bunker up at the landing zone and send out a speeder bike as a spotter every time the bomber came up as ready. It only got worse in the expansion with the orbital bombardment.
Empire: So guys looks like were facing a rebel insurgency Tarkin: How about we invest trillions into ridiculously large ships and a death laser in space that can be destroyed by a single starfighter? Empire: Sir...... Your a genius
@@SM-or1wo CIS started the planning, and the Republic (because Palpatine?) stole the plans to it and started building it. I don't think they really started it until after the Empire formed, but they definitely started gathering materials. 2005 Star Wars Battlefront has you on Mygeeto, where the crystal you pick up is one that ends up being used in the Death Star.
In a alternative history Thrawn:- yes the rebels have been destroyed Empire:- sir yes sir Thrawn:- now look behind Empire:- What the A chiss fleet appears
as was discussed later, Venator was likely discarded for "political" reasons (as is, it was the remnant of old, corrupt Republic and heavily associated with the Jedi).
@@armando2814 yes. And considering that they actually had one of the most advanced sub designs at the time, it was also one of their downfalls. But hey, on the plus side a lot more people survived:D
@@TheArklyte Most advanced doesn’t mean anything if you can’t produce it enough. That’s another problem as the US was out producing the hell out of them from Battleships, Destroyers, P Boats, Carriers. Remember the last battleship fight was like 3 or 4 battleships sealclubbing either some battleships or Japanese Destroyers....and that was their most invested part of their military. The Japanese tanks were so neglected that it was basically WW1 tanks going up against numerically superior mid to late war Tanks.
At least in Legends, I'm sure they did but quite a few factors limited their use. Costs of maintenance(even if used for literally cannon fodder), conflict with the Rebel's guerilla style warfare, and I'm sure its unwise to use CIS droids in pro-Republic planets.
Droids might bring even more attention to the cell/group than it was already getting. If a group all of a sudden had an army of droids then they might get attacked by much more than before
I actually really like what you did here Eck - You superiority fleets actually FEEL superior (and not just against capital ship threats, or as 'power projection', but across the board). The Escort fleets, while fleshed out far less, also sound pretty good. But I have one last 'fleet type' I'd like to bring up - The 'Imperial Deep Space Expeditionary Force' (IDSEF) fleet. The purpose of such fleets would be for colonisation, large-scale escort, long-range recon, and clearing & patrolling 'uninhabited' sectors (sectors with no planets, asteroid fields, sectors that are only used as multi-jump transit points, etc). Their primary 'threats' would be pirate groups, smugglers, and smaller Rebel 'cells'. They'd need to be fast, have long range, and exceptional sensor and communications capabilities, and would probably have an unusually high ratio of hyperspace capable fighter-craft. A single 'large cruiser' would be the core 'command ship' of such formations, and my own 'head-canon' puts EC Henry's recent "Incursor Class" in the role of such a command ship, supported by Nebulon B1/B2 frigates (maybe a couple of lancers specifically for close support of the HQ ship, but it has 'point defense' capacity of its own), and a large number of corvettes (I went with the CR-91a "Assassin Class" - But the "Raider Class" works too). ~JD
Wonderful video as always! I still wish the Empire kept the Venator, my favourite ship, but I do understand why they didn’t (both in and out of universe). The Empire is such an amazing force, and I really wish that they were done justice in the universe!
@Mr Niemand they're not bad per se, ISDs aren't, they're just designed for entirely different things then they were used for. They were designed and built for slugging it out between themselves and other destroyers and larger, and were not designed at all to counter snubfighters and asymmetrical warfare. Hence, they would have been great against things like the Confederate Navy, and proved their worth against the Yuuzhan Vong during that war, but ultimately was abysmal against the organized but assymetrical tactics of the Rebellion
@@Director_Orson_Krennic I agree , the ISD and the larger shipsvarw good for a battle fleet but not for a patrol fleet, cruisers, frigates and corvettes along with gunships and long range fighters are better for patrols.
I agree place a Venator with an ISD and few Corvettes and you have a perfect fleet, even just an ISD with a Venator. You have the ISD with all the firepower able to protect the Venator and deal with any capital ships. Then you have the Venator with it's massive Starfighter complement. You send a regular patrol squad out around the ISD/ sector, far out enough to screen against the enemy but not too far that they can't fall back to protect the ISD from rebel bombers. This the Venator protects the ISD; we see in Rogue one and ISD taken out of action due to Rebel Y-Wings due to a lack of anti-starfighter weapons. Even if you leave a Venator with it's original complement of Starfighters the numbers as well as cost savings of not having to build a new ship and it's Starfighters complement is worth it alone. We know TIE fighter pilots were the best of the best just held back due to the terrible design of the TIE fighter; put them in the ARC-170, Z-95, V-wings, or even an Actis. Just think if the empire used this set up alone the rebellion would have had a much harder if not impossible time overthrowing the empire.
I think the exclusion of Venetors is one of the greatest flaws in Imperial fleet makeups. The Quasar seems like a cheaper alternative to what at one point was classified as a capital-ship class vessel but honestly, an Imperial fleet made up of two Venetors for every ISD would much more succinctly question even large Rebel fleets, due to star fighter numbers alone. Another issue that would supremely fix Imperial superiority and escort fleets is a complete revamp of their star fighters. The entire dogma of “bigger is better” is the reason Imperial fleets are so inferior to even a comparable CIS fleet. Tactical ommand capabilities asside, I’d much rather have a Lucrehulk with a small CIS support fleet over any standard Imperial fleet exlusively for the fighter superiority. The ARC-170s were big and bulky but a multi-purpose ship like that seems right up the Imperial alley. Light bombing, anti-dog fighting (rear mounted cannons), highly specialised recon, and the capability to traverse hyper-space make them one of the objectively best fighters in my opinion. I also think the strange lack of corvettes and other smaller ships is important. Your inclusion of Raiders is an idea I’ve always wondered about since BF2. With (small) hangars and the absolutely disgusting amount of anti-fighter weapons seems like the perfect make up of a lightning strike ship. Having an entire superiority fleet pop up will stop anything from moving forward and the ability ot launch a large squadron of anti-fighter ships close to the enemy would make Thrawn-like maneuvers easy for any Imperial officer.
I would replace the CR-92s and 2 of the Raider corvettes with Tartan-class patrol cruisers and the 2 Nebulon-b frigates with a couple of Arquetins light cruisers.
Just wanna share the standard Imperial fleet I always had in my mind, fairly cheap but flexible enough imo 1 Star Destroyer as the flagship 2-4 Arquitens Cruisers as the main support ships because they have a balanced mix between turbo lasers and point defense cannons while also carrying 3-10 star fighters along with torpedo tubes depending on the variant Around 4-6 Raider II Corvettes because they're great corvettes and served their role well 1 Gladiator as the main carrier. The official stats says that it can only carry around 24 fighters but this is most likely an uneducated guess considering it's literally 600 meters long and 126 meters high. Also the fact that it's inside is nearly 99% hangar it makes the official count of 24 starfighter seem like a typo, maybe it was meant to be 240? Metanerdz Lore has done a breakdown on how many starfighter it can actually carry so I'll take his guess of around 220 starfighters(not considering the ceiling mounted TIE-Fighter racks which could easily double or triple this number) a much more acceptable amount of fighter compliment 1 Interdictor Class Star Destroyer for obvious reasons I tried to make it as small as possible since we see most of the time that Star Destroyers often travel alone or just in groups of 3 so I hope this would explain why I used so few ships If I have to go even smaller then I'll go with 1 Star Destroyer as the flagship 3 Arquitens cruisers as anti-everything but capital ships. This will be pushing the capabilities of my cruisers but hey, they have 8 point defense cannons, 8 light turbo lasers, 4 missile tubes and 3-10 starfighter you can't go more cheap and versatile than that especially for a light cruiser 2 Raider II corvettes, I feel like I'm stretching it by adding this two corvettes but if I can this will definitely be great ships to have in my fleet
I just did my own rough calculations to prove this gladiator comment wrong because I thought 200+ ties sounded ridiculous, but after 20 minutes of scale calculations (+guesstimating), angular formulas, and getting rough volumetric data- I found that you’re completely correct, and 24 was probably supposed to be 240* I accounted for everything- like the hanger height not being nearly as high as the total height, how that height lowers as it goes towards the mouth of the hanger, (estimates on height of rear hanger to height of front hanger, and then triangle formula to solve height-depression), and then I even accounted for tie volume filling up hanger volume while discounting ample space around each tie to account for realistic spacing and other operations/equipment/stuff in the hanger I friggin blew 20 minutes just to tell you that mathematically, the gladiator can definitely hold 220-240 ties, if not even more Low key a little mad too but bravo sir 😂🙏🏻
You propose the Enforcer, I bring up the Procursator. It's a medium-sized star destroyer, slightly larger than a Victory, that with its powerful frontal batteries can provide more than half of the ISD II's firepower, and can contend with the Star Destroyer's main Octuple batteries in terms of range. That of course does mean that you would have to sacrifice the Enforcer's interdiction technology, So I personally wouldn't include it in fleets designed to hunt rebels groups, rather those designed to defend vulnerable targets against strikes from faster rebel support ships.
I fully agree with your fleet. Though I might occasionally replace the Carracks with either Strike class or Dreadnaught class cruisers. Or most likely varying between the three, Carracks being the more common of the three but I feel the other two could from time to time take its place
@@iainhowe4561 How so? the victory has all the weaknesses of the ISD without some of its major advantages. What precisely is it offering to the ISD? its really more of a budget ISD when you cant afford the real thing, not a support ship in any way, as far as I can see.
@@lenkagamine4145 The Victory is actually very effective as a support ship, both the Victory 1 and 2 had laser cannons (though not a lot) and allowed some fighter defense (much more than the ISD class 2's zero laser cannons) while still being able to fight off larger cruisers and frigates. While they should not ever be the only thing supporting an ISD, they are an excellent choice and work well with the Star Destroyers.
@@bloodypine22 I dunno about that. Never seen a victory destroy a large capital ship, and fighters seem to be the most effective point defense in star wars, hence why thats all the empire uses. Kinda think the smaller variant of the Providence can do those things better than the victory anyways. Besides of which, an escort should be at least as fast as the thing its escorting, or else it will be left behind. And I'm almost positive Victory's are slower than ISD's. Thats kinda a large part of why ISD's rarely have support, they're actually really fast.
HEY! I just used your superiority Imperial fleet design in the Empire at War Remake Mod, and I was able to DECIMATE a rebel fleet within 2 minutes as compared to 10 minutes. :)
#AskEck Would it be reasonable to refit the Venator Star Destroyer with octuple barbet turbolasers instead of just dual turbolasers, multiplying its potential firepower by 4 times. Edit: added askeck tag
@@kroganbers3rker778 they also could have made a mark II version of the venator which is larger (between 1,2 and 1,4 km) so it can have the weapons and the fighters
Probably would be best to leave the dedicated anti-capital weaponry to the ISD, due to the Venator's relatively weak hull and shielding, and as stated before the more cannons on the batteries would need to draw power from somewhere - likely shields or mobility. However, you could probably get away with making them quadruple turbolaser batteries, along with making the medium turbolasers mounted in the barbettes at the front quad batteries (quad turbolasers being four barrelled, shorter ranged, but faster firing). This would be good for when hostile vessels get in close, due to the reduced firing arcs of the cannon by nature of their mounting style. You don't need your most powerful weaponry there most of the time since the eight batteries on the dorsal side have the better firing angles compared to them, but spitting out more power faster when it comes time for a close-in, fight-for-your-life knife fight between surprise capital ships and the Venator. However, if you were deploying the fleet properly, the Venator would be back and out of range of the main combat, flooding space with their snubfighters while flanked with anti-corvette and anti-snubfighter screens, while the ISDs and their escorts would be sent forward to perform the brunt of the ship-to-ship combat and keeping fire away from the carrier
An Empire set in galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars would be impossible to control or defend since it would be impossible to find and destroy any rebellion, especially if there is so much place to hide and you only have a few hundred thousand ships at your disposal.
That's the issue the Tarkin doctrine was supposed to address. Have powerful and intimidating ships, like the ISD, to scare your potential enemies into obedience regardless of their advantages. This could've worked too if the empire didn't mismanage their navy.
As long as you focus down the main hyperspace routes that will significantly decrease the area you need to maintain active control over. Still leave a a lot but it becomes more manageable.
@@carrosivejones1969 Yea agreed. Problem was the ISD's would fall fast without support. Maybe just give 10% of the budget to support ships for them instead of 0%.
Don’t forget the amount of bureaucracy it takes to rule so many planets. If it was so centralized, things would bog down so hard it would take years to push any decision through
I feel like the venator's turbo lasers are underrated as its turbo lasers are classified as heavy turbo lasers and they can draw power directly from the reactor to just keep on firing endless volleys of turbo laser fire. But that's just one man's opinion
Designer: "So, how do you want the basic design?" Emperor: "It could definitively use a stupidly big bridge with no other support systems". Warlords: "Great idea, we should also make the point defense systems non existent and also the Starfighters should resemble one use suicide crafts". Emperor: "Yes, yes, Dark side aprroves." Designer: Poker face. 😐
Reminds me of that “Death Star architect speaks” video where the Emperor suggests increasing the tunnel for DS2 from “X-Wing sized” to “Millennium Falcon sized”. The engineers readily agree
HAC well it doesn’t actually have windows it has lots of sensors to bring up a big advanced projection of the surrounding environment that’s why it’s weird and round. And I agree it isn’t ugly, I like it.
I know I'm extra late to this, but any fleet that involves one or more Venators is good enough for me. They might not be the best ship, but I think they're very underrated and are very useful when placed with other ships. Plus, like you said, they are a carrier too, I doubt you could fit any AT-ATs within them, but once again, as you mentioned, this job would likely be given to the ISD instead and would allow the Venator to carry fighters instead and a lot of them at that, plus with a seemingly easy to access hangar, they'd be easy to deploy and easy to land into incase they needed to retreat. Though their defence capability isn't as good as the ISD, I feel it would still give any opponent a good fight.
Me looking at this video's way to fix the navy: _this is brilliant_ but I prefer this. Take your favorite blue boy with a 300IQ count, clone it, spread it and Voila! (sure it those not "fix" the navy in term of ship but I feel like most ship are fine it's just how they're used in a wrong way.)
How to fix the imperial navy, take thrawn and put him in charge of everything. Then establish a proper military culture rather than one of cutthroat captain looking for the next advancement not by way of Vader or palpatine killing your prior.
Well, I'd say you pretty much nailed it. Especially giving Acclamators in to the mix. While primarily transports, these babies throw quite a punch, so you effectively have cruiser grade ships added in to the mix, while carying supplies for the rest of the fleet. One thing I would do with the Venator might actually be long ramge plasma gun, akin to to Aggressor class, if it would fit, giving the Venator aditional functionality as long range artilery support.
I quite like the acclamator. Outside of that I like this fleet comp for sure. I also can see 2 Venators escorting a ISD. Also since the empire used droids, guarding key planets they could have kept the lukrahulks to be essentially planet guarding mobile space stations.
Bah Johnson is killed by a stupid orb, Rex is regularly outnumbered 100 to one and fought/survived/won two wars despite accelerated aging, and betraying the elite 501st for lady tano.
even so Jacob you gotta think about that, that orb shot a Pretty strong laser fast and tht laser knocked chief down and damaged his mjolnir armor even ontop of that compared to what kind of armor rex has vs chief rex wouldn't survive it. it'd be the same case that happend to johnson by far unless rex would have other people with him at this point if they ever met the orb with that considered they could kill it but someone would die
Dunno if you had done this but would love to see a sort of series of fixing fleets for every faction since, other than the rebels, almost all the time factions composed their fleets poorly. (Republic with their "3 Venators for all", CIS munificent spam, Empire ISD spam, etc). It also helps to give a better understanding of how to build fleets for EaW.
I would personally also add Tartan class patrol cruisers. Wookieepedia states that they were as armed and armored as a Lancer, but about as fast as a Carrack. They've only really appeared in Empire at War, so I have no idea if they're still even canon or not. Great video though, keep it up!
I've always asked myself a similar question to this video, and I must say that I really agree with your choices for support craft, except for the Nebulon-B frigates. Honestly, they feel way too out-of-place, and I would much rather trade both them and your CR-95s in for another Enforcer/Vindicator. All-in-all, awesome video! I'm really surprised at how similar our doctrines are for fleet-building.
Luciferdesrea yep, it’s been around for thousands of years. Every epic has some larger-than-life person shrugging off blows and strikes that would kill a normal person
Great video Echhart! It's why I subscribed to you channle. And I really liked the music also. It was still "you" while still being mellow and relaxing.
I think having the venator in the rear is a great way to cover the isd as ties didnt have hyper drives so it makes sense that ties would deploy from the venator to cover the isd as it's ties would be deployed after creating a swarm
Personally i think the Empire would require an entirely different approach to capship design. Their fleet seems geared towards fighting an enemy with equal capship focus, which the Rebellion just isn´t. Or any other faction left after the Clone Wars. None are a viable threat requiring such a layout for a main capital ship like the IMPSTAR.
@@khadenallast4495 Basically a defense force made up of picket ships, nice idea, the VT-49 Decimator is pretty much this. You just need to raise production numbers.
@@khadenallast4495 ISD is 1.6 kilometers long XD And i agree, TIE pilots would be a good choice. But if a spoiler is unnecessary, explain THIS: th-cam.com/video/_xZRUna0nak/w-d-xo.html
Even though I'm not an expert on all three ships, this makes sense to me. This what you do creates variety and gives more types of ships to the table. I would definitely also use Vemators as support ships. I would also use them for rebel fleets ad carriers. They have lots of space for fighters so that is an asset.
Ideally in empire at war I try to keep three ISD's at least with a equal number of Victory class and sometimes a Acclamator will find it's way in the formation but with a couple lancers and carrack's in support and at least 10 Ton- falk escort carriers. Strike cruisers are also very effective I find for capital ship support. So I keep many smaller support ships and carriers in reserve as reinforcements as well if possible. But the key is yes have effective powerful ships but screened and supported by the smaller vessels and overwhelm with endless fighters while bombers take out the enemy capital ship strong points as the enemy line begins to open up to your assault.
Might not be a bad idea to strip the turbo lasers off the Venator and replace them with more laser cannons. That way it can provide extra anti-fighter defense towards the fleets vulnerable rear.
I like the idea of the escort fleets but I'd give them at least one Turbolaser-heavy light Capital ship. I think a Vindicator would do for that role in larger escort fleets, and for smaller ones an Arquitens would do. That way if the Rebels do come with a larger vessel (like MC-30s or Alliance Assault Frigates) then the Empire has something capable of duking it out with that vessel long enough for heavier ships to arrive and reinforce like maybe a reserve of Enforcers or a Dreadnaught Heavy Cruiser. The Dreadnaught is a great anti-capital ship and possesses a lot of firepower for its size. It's perfect for potential reinforcement.
Assuming I can refit the ships to have a similar hyperdrive rate and sunlight speed, I would do 1 ISD, 1 victory, and one venator as my core, a pair of interdictors as support, and a pair of quasars as support, 4 nebulon B, and fill the rest of the complement with raiders and cr90s. For small craft, the quasars would be assigned wings of gunships, the ISD would be assigned its standard endor complement as to include interceptors and bombers and the venator would be assigned a wing of arc 170s, a wing of defenders and the standard ties to fill out the rest.
To clarify, the arc's and and gunship would serve as initial pickets and special mission units along side the defenders, and I should also add lambda shuttles to each hangar equipped ship.
I'm really happy that you included the Venator class. Also, I love the Acclamator. It's not the best looking, but it certainly beats out the Praetor mk. II for me (I find that ship hideous).
Great vid...the Raiders can also function as long range early warning for the battle group ;) I completely agree that with a Venator, the ISD would be far better protected especially if they had higher quality fighters over the TIEs
Strike Cruisers and Escort Carriers, the ECs were almost as fast as a Quasar but had more hanger space, and Strike Cruisers were some of the faster strike craft in the Imperial Navy and packed some serious firepower for their size.
Same as Imperial Guard, Mobile Artillery. Far enough back to not get shot, Still get to use the biggest guns on land. Important enough you wont get Re assigned to the front lines and if the enemy gets too close you can retreat with your vehicle.
Aclomaters are the LITERAL GOATS, some of the fastest hyperdrives, Insanely good weaponry, & you can easily switch out their massive troop carrying capabilities for fighters or cargo, & the cherry on top is that they only take 720 crewmen
No Arquitens ? I think they may be good support ship that could fulfil both anti capital ships and anti fighters. Put some Ion cannons and anti fighters gun, and you have a nice ship against pirates and rebells.
I think, that you could maybe even downscale it further, because the imp. Fleets always had the higher firepower until the later phase of the rebellion( and some excuses here and there). I think you could make the Victory Star Destroyer the capital Ship of the Fleet and put some ISD‘s in strategic/key locations from where they could quickly reinforce the smaller Fleets with the Victorys, because the empire always dictated capital Ship size. Also replace the Tie fighter of possible.
I'm Empire at War, I'd always use the same Imperial Fleet build, 1 ISD backed up by 2 Vics and 4 Accumulators. If I had the option I'd throw in 2 Venators, superior fire power mixed with flexibility.
Nice. For Superiority I usually go with 2 ISD I or II, 2 Victory's I or II, 3 Tartan Patrol, and round it out with either 2 Nebulon B2's or Strike Cruisers... It works incredibly well in many Empire at War mods. Now, if I have Vader, well then I try to recreate his fleet from Empire, with his Executor, plus 6 ISD's, 2 Victory's, and then a few anti-fighter craft for good measure...
Good video. I like the ISD and Raiders, but I think I would substitute the Strike-class cruiser for the others. Configure two for carrier duty and one for anti-capship duty, and you have a flexible, formidable fleet.
This is a really good analysis. Personally, I would want to get a second Enforcer if resources permitted so that I could screen both sides of the ISD, extend the effective range of my fleet to cover a wider area, and make it harder for enemy ships to break through or flank.
It was effective at what it was meant to do, intimidate the masses, the rebel alliance would be a lot bigger without the fear factor of thee Tarkin Doctrine.
I like your solution! I think it’s very well balanced, and greatly complements the ISDs strengths. The one thing I would add would be missile and torpedo launchers to the Venator, so that it could provide additional fire-support. Edit: I’d also add at least 4 VT-49 Decimators and a few Vigil corvettes.
9:30 "She was built in Republic times, held together by bits of bind" "We're waiting for the day, waiting for the day! Waiting for the day that we get our pay"
I think, if the acclamator was reoutfitted with a ton of laser cannons and targeting computers, it would be a very competent anti-fighter ship. Pair three of these with a couple arquitens, a wing of tie defenders escorting, and maybe an interdictor waiting in the wings, and you have a pretty good quick-response force whenever small hotspots of rebel activity show up
#ASKECK Can you do the Gray Paladins from coruscant nights? They're a Jedi faction that used blasters and other weapons one was so good that she was able to send one of her own bolts straight up an enemy's blaster barrel. They also believed in using the force as little as possible so they focused on other skills like martial arts and military tactics like guerrilla warfare, urban tactics, espionage, and infiltration.
You my dude...just made the perfect fleet. Makes me think of our navy today...like...the venator is the perfect aircraft carrier and the smaller ships are destroyers...and of course...the ISD is the perfect battleship/destroyer
"how to fix imperial fleets" so I got this new idea, we kamikaze our ships against the consortium, then we initiate Operation Bullet Hell and rebuild the fleet, using all our pop cap to build broadsides and tartan patrol cruisers.
I found most of the suggestions rather fitting. the Empire's near fetish for the Tarkin doctrine lead to many strategic and even tactical mistakes by Imperial commanders at critical points. Yes, it had its victories, and even stymied the growth of the Rebellion for a time, but it also gave fuel to the flames. The Emperor utterly dismissing the Rebellion as a threat was also a factor, but even then, Imperial command was simply to caught up in the idea that just their presence would strike enough fear to prevent dissension and rebellion where ever they went. The designs were all well and good for fighting a war like that of the Clone Wars, with fairly set battle lines and large scale fleet and planetary actions. Fighting an asymmetrical war, the Imperial fleet doctrine was horribly mismatched, because the Rebellion could choose most of the time when and where they struck for maximum gain at minimal risk. I would do much as you did with the reorganization, and pretty much treat the fleets like modern day Carrier groups here on good old Earth. Large, fighter spewing carriers guarded by heavier armed capital ships and lighter escort vessels. While an ISD is a capable Carrier, its more a Capital ship brawler than it is a Carrier. As we are not dealing with the inefficiencies of Imperial Strike craft, I won't bring it up here, but it only adds to the fact that ISDs were more fear tools than proper multi role capital ships.
The funny thing is most ships the rebellion outside of the mon cal ships, the empire have access to. The cr90s are imperial diplomatic corvettes but could be used in imperial fleets.
There is only one thing needed to "fix" their fleets. Fill their squadrons. The normal ISDs are supposed to have 72 fighters, Ton Falks 72 as well. Can't remember with Quasar, but it was substantial. The rebels had better, but far less fighters. The Mon Cal Cruisers had 48-96 fighters, Nebula Bs had 18-24, but the Empire greatly outnumbered the Rebels. Even if X & A Wings were better, but facing 3:1 odds, they would usually lose to even a below average tactician opponent. Even if they could defeat the TIEs, they'd have their hands full while the ISDs closed and wiped out any capital support. If they just actually fielded their fighter, interceptor, and bomber wings, they could protect the cap ships and chase down rebels. Adding in raiders, carracks, etc., would be nice, but truly not needed with full fighter support. If the want to go real hard-core, give their fighters shields / missles and their utility shoots up.
I heard an interesting argument for why Star Destroyers are so ridiculously designed. Star Wars canonically has 1970s future tech, their sensors were relatively bad and even less reliable in battles due to jamming and ion weapons, meaning that these big bridges are necessary to see what’s going on in a battle. Shield bubbles are stupid though
I think you are asking for too much in this list. You have 7 different models of ships and three of which are very large capitol ships. The production cost for one battle group is far too large. You also have to remember that some of the ships are far too similar. Why are you using carracks and nebulons. Also why cr95s and raiders. It makes no sense. Why use the enforcer as extra firepower when the venator provides that and carries fighers.
Dab Daniel Well the Venator, as Eck said, would be automated or operated by a skeleton crew, with the sole purpose of it being to launch fighters rather than sit in the front lines. You wouldn’t need to produce the Venators since the Republic had done that for you; you just repurpose the existing ones. Then to balance costs, I’d cut down on the total number of ISD’s to create fewer but more well rounded battle groups that are going to be far more efficient in combat than what the Empire fielded. It makes more sense to do that than continually waste credits on replacing destroyed ISD’s because your battle groups can’t properly protect them.
The gunboats should work. Heck, assault transports / Escort Transports can be turned into killers if you remove their carry capacity (basically go the same way Soviets turned Mi-8 frame into Mi-24). They were always the worst opponent in X-Wing/TIE series :) Also... Rework the ISD to use fully the hull volume. Reduce crew by more automation, instead triple the hangar capacity (I mean a comparatively tiny Nimitz class carrier can carry 90 planes...)
to me, adding 2 Venator's and 10 Quasar's would drastically increase their fleet capabilities a trio of Victories and Acclimator's for support and land invasion/cargo transport raider's and CR92's for anti-fighter capability along with Lancer and Carrek ship's to support and for other option's, an interdictor with Nebulon B's in escort to help my fleet if anything, I would like to upgrade any if not all of these ship's to be better suited for flexibility and combat
@@mikekean8344 I get it, ground battle's are how war's are won, though I think I would add some droid ship's and starfighter's as well since they were cheap and easy to replace
Today's video features some new music by the artist Unfound. I'd like to make music more prominent in my videos, but I still consider myself new at video making, so I don't want to mix the audio with the music being too loud. It's louder in this video, and could probably be even louder. Let me know your thoughts.
Links to the included music, and Unfound's Bandcamp:
Unfound -- Without: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqOlh...
Unfound -- Heaven: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBIsi...
Unfound -- Home: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWYkh...
Unfound's bandcamp: unfoundmusic.bandcamp.com/
EckhartsLadder # askeck can you do a series on this please?
Keep up the great work!
EckhartsLadder didn’t another one win but I’m happy bec I voted for this one
EckhartsLadder hmm looks real good. But if I really want carrier ship yes the Venator rules.
If I remember the speed figures right, speed 6 (in the RPGs) was about equal to 75 in the X-Wing games, and 8 was equal to 100? So the Lancer may have been rated somewhere below those...
Adam Hood agree
How to fix Imperial fleets in 30 seconds or less.
"Tarkin, you're fired. Thrawn, you're in charge now."
I mean, in Canon, Tarkin wasn't that bad. He supported Thrawns defender project as opposed to Krennics Stardust.
@@attilathehun5067 I don't know much about cannon, the disney movies really put me off the current extended universe. I still love star wars and I'm hoping the next movie is amazing and all will be well but for the moment I don't hold much of an interest in disney cannon.
Okay, but what do we do for the other 27 seconds? lol.
@@cherudiumSome of the new Canon is crappy, I admit, but some is good. I highly suggest reading the new Thrawn books, as well as Tarkin. They're really good. I'm reading Thrawn right now, actually.
@@QuantumAscension1 Play the imperial march of course.
How to troll your enemies:
1: take some Nebulon Bs
2: put all the armour and shields on the middle bit
3: watch the enemy fail at destroying them while you blow them up
That's basically EC Henry's design of an Imperial-spec Nebulon B in a nutshell: th-cam.com/video/Nz13rwQpUd4/w-d-xo.html
Imperials: We have the perfect anti-starfighter ship, the Lancer class! Now we’ll only use it like twice and eventually throw it out!
Tarkin: *GENIUS!!!*
To be fare realistically highly specialized ships should be skipped unless a more generalized design "Can Not" do the job the old Vindicator cruiser is a good example of the type of ship I would build in mass you need to remember fleets fight very very few fleet battles but need to spend lots of time patrolling often as single ships so designing based on fleet engagements is kind of silly. You should be focusing on large amounts of general purpose ships backed up by a small but powerful fast reaction force
@@xerty5502 so you have a sector armada, you have patrol groups based on arquatens, arc 170s, hyperdrive starfighter wings and gunships, all use tracker missiles, and you have atleast 3 primary responce fleets that are more suited for a fight. Finally you have your core battle fleet, which will respond to any major conflict that challenge the response fleets. Traditional fleets are a pyramid structure.
@@xerty5502
Well actually for patrolling the Lancer is perfect since you tend to deal with a bunch of smaller ships when patrolling and having appropriate firepower for those situations is better. I think the Lancer would make one of the best patrol craft.
@@ilo3456 going to have to disagree there I personally believe the lancer is only really practical as a screening vessel it is to specialized to make a good multi purpose patrol ship while I agree it is a much better anti fighter craft then an arquintes or carrack both these are a better choice as a multi purpose light ship you probably could come up with an even better ship for this purpose but it would not be the lancer. That said you are free to disagree with me but trying to convince me a super specialized single purpose ship is a good multi purpose ship is going to take some doing.
New playlist idea “Eck fixes everything”
That would be a surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Word
But can he fix my life
I support this.
Scenario: You are the admiral of an Imperial fleet assigned to conquer the heavily fortified Mon Cala system, you must break through the rebel defenses and protect a planetary invasion force. Your fleet cannot be larger than Death Squadron at Endor, but you have your pick if whatever ships the Empire had outside of the Eclipse class. What ships would you choose and how would you use them? (Third attempt)
#AskEck
Lord Frostwind is he allowed to use Sovereign-class Star Destroyers?
Interdictors for sure, and heavy firepower ships like Bellators and Alliegances flanked by smaller, faster ships like Victories and a few Lancers for PD.
@Nicholas Farrell I'll allow Sovereigns, just nothing of superweapon status.
Im assuming mon cala would have super weapon producing dry docks and Golan 3s dotted around, plus a home fleet with maybe a mon remonda or mc90 and other late GCW rebellion cruisers plus nebulons and cr90s?
I'll made simple... Beginning with a good amount of ISDs, a lot Victorys 1, Lancers, Venetors and Interdictors
1) Field TIE Defenders.
2) Field TIE Defenders.
3) Field TIE Defenders.
4) Field TIE Defenders.
5) Just blasted field TIE Defenders instead of wasting credits on a death ball.
Nahh X wings are good enought. If some farmers can fight on this l, what skill pilot can do.
Those death balls are good for numbers though, perhaps go with death ball 2.0 now with shields and proper range of vision. But I would field atleast one wing of defenders.
TIE PHANTOMS.
This is from an old game that ILM helped with. It was called Star Wars Rebellion. In it TIE's and TIE Interceptors cost the same to maintain and about the same to produce. TIE defenders cost about 2.67 to produce and about 2 times to maintain than a TIE Interceptor. But the TIE Defender was way more effective than TIE Interceptors. TIE Interceptors were good on attack, but could be quickly overwhelmed by Rebel Fighters. TIE Defenders were good on attack and defense, and could take a lot of punishment (their shields were the strongest of any fighter in the game).
TIE Droid
"Let's talk about Corvettes"
Star Wars Empire At War:
*TARTAN PATROL CRUISER REPORTING*
Finally another person who remembers this game!
THE SPACE COMBAT IN THAT GANE IS SO GOOD
Chapell Brock yeah. Too bad the ground combat is awful. They'd have been better off using an updated form of Force Commander for that portion.
@@o00nemesis00o yeah attacking a planet did not engender any need to actually go out and attack. Just bunker up at the landing zone and send out a speeder bike as a spotter every time the bomber came up as ready. It only got worse in the expansion with the orbital bombardment.
STAR DESTROYER READY!
So glad you used some clone wars ships even if in small numbers . They are my personal favourites.
The Venator is possibly the most beautiful of star destroyer.
and it would save the empire quite a bit of money
Every time I see that Force Unleashed cutscene I can't see anything other than the ISD bridge missing the shield/sensor globes
I always wondered about that...
I just noticed that xD
Bugged me for a long time.
I always found it comical how they'd take on ISDs with JUST a Nebula-B as the rebellion's flagship
Now I feel sick every time I see that clip
Empire: So guys looks like were facing a rebel insurgency
Tarkin: How about we invest trillions into ridiculously large ships and a death laser in space that can be destroyed by a single starfighter?
Empire: Sir...... Your a genius
Destructor of Capitalism 17 Wasn’t the Death Star already in planning during the Clone Wars?
@@SM-or1wo CIS started the planning, and the Republic (because Palpatine?) stole the plans to it and started building it. I don't think they really started it until after the Empire formed, but they definitely started gathering materials.
2005 Star Wars Battlefront has you on Mygeeto, where the crystal you pick up is one that ends up being used in the Death Star.
@@n147258noah they had the geonosians doing it so after the second battle of geonosis
In a alternative history
Thrawn:- yes the rebels have been destroyed
Empire:- sir yes sir
Thrawn:- now look behind
Empire:- What the
A chiss fleet appears
I think you confuse tarkin with motti( the guy Vader choked out on the death star)
Excellent choice to add the Venator, nicely thought through, Admiral.
as was discussed later, Venator was likely discarded for "political" reasons (as is, it was the remnant of old, corrupt Republic and heavily associated with the Jedi).
Somehow this heavily reminds me of japanese lack of destroyers and antisub means during WWII which made US subs so successful...
And they had their own subs used as firsf line firepower instead of attacking smaller ecomomic targets
@@armando2814 yes. And considering that they actually had one of the most advanced sub designs at the time, it was also one of their downfalls. But hey, on the plus side a lot more people survived:D
@@TheArklyte hope someday all the nosense killing and hate stops
@@TheArklyte Most advanced doesn’t mean anything if you can’t produce it enough. That’s another problem as the US was out producing the hell out of them from Battleships, Destroyers, P Boats, Carriers. Remember the last battleship fight was like 3 or 4 battleships sealclubbing either some battleships or Japanese Destroyers....and that was their most invested part of their military. The Japanese tanks were so neglected that it was basically WW1 tanks going up against numerically superior mid to late war Tanks.
@Toby Twist humans murdering other humans because they disagree with each other. that doesn't sound like nonsense to you?
#AskEck
Did the Rebel Alliance ever use Battle Droids?
Yes and no; see Wookiepedia and R0-GR.
At least in Legends, I'm sure they did but quite a few factors limited their use.
Costs of maintenance(even if used for literally cannon fodder), conflict with the Rebel's guerilla style warfare, and I'm sure its unwise to use CIS droids in pro-Republic planets.
they did in legends
of course how can anyone forget mr bones
Droids might bring even more attention to the cell/group than it was already getting. If a group all of a sudden had an army of droids then they might get attacked by much more than before
Wait, no GR-75's?
How can you ha a fleet, without GR-75's?
Clearly you've doomed your crews, with this obvious omission and tactical flaw.
Born again Geek they keep 2 hidden in the Venator for extra plot armour
I actually really like what you did here Eck - You superiority fleets actually FEEL superior (and not just against capital ship threats, or as 'power projection', but across the board). The Escort fleets, while fleshed out far less, also sound pretty good.
But I have one last 'fleet type' I'd like to bring up - The 'Imperial Deep Space Expeditionary Force' (IDSEF) fleet. The purpose of such fleets would be for colonisation, large-scale escort, long-range recon, and clearing & patrolling 'uninhabited' sectors (sectors with no planets, asteroid fields, sectors that are only used as multi-jump transit points, etc). Their primary 'threats' would be pirate groups, smugglers, and smaller Rebel 'cells'. They'd need to be fast, have long range, and exceptional sensor and communications capabilities, and would probably have an unusually high ratio of hyperspace capable fighter-craft. A single 'large cruiser' would be the core 'command ship' of such formations, and my own 'head-canon' puts EC Henry's recent "Incursor Class" in the role of such a command ship, supported by Nebulon B1/B2 frigates (maybe a couple of lancers specifically for close support of the HQ ship, but it has 'point defense' capacity of its own), and a large number of corvettes (I went with the CR-91a "Assassin Class" - But the "Raider Class" works too).
~JD
Wonderful video as always! I still wish the Empire kept the Venator, my favourite ship, but I do understand why they didn’t (both in and out of universe). The Empire is such an amazing force, and I really wish that they were done justice in the universe!
@Mr Niemand I mean ISD's aren't terrible. They are great at policing a galaxy already under controlled. Not fighting a war. But, they are expensive.
@Mr Niemand they're not bad per se, ISDs aren't, they're just designed for entirely different things then they were used for. They were designed and built for slugging it out between themselves and other destroyers and larger, and were not designed at all to counter snubfighters and asymmetrical warfare. Hence, they would have been great against things like the Confederate Navy, and proved their worth against the Yuuzhan Vong during that war, but ultimately was abysmal against the organized but assymetrical tactics of the Rebellion
@@Director_Orson_Krennic I agree , the ISD and the larger shipsvarw good for a battle fleet but not for a patrol fleet, cruisers, frigates and corvettes along with gunships and long range fighters are better for patrols.
I agree place a Venator with an ISD and few Corvettes and you have a perfect fleet, even just an ISD with a Venator. You have the ISD with all the firepower able to protect the Venator and deal with any capital ships. Then you have the Venator with it's massive Starfighter complement. You send a regular patrol squad out around the ISD/ sector, far out enough to screen against the enemy but not too far that they can't fall back to protect the ISD from rebel bombers. This the Venator protects the ISD; we see in Rogue one and ISD taken out of action due to Rebel Y-Wings due to a lack of anti-starfighter weapons. Even if you leave a Venator with it's original complement of Starfighters the numbers as well as cost savings of not having to build a new ship and it's Starfighters complement is worth it alone. We know TIE fighter pilots were the best of the best just held back due to the terrible design of the TIE fighter; put them in the ARC-170, Z-95, V-wings, or even an Actis. Just think if the empire used this set up alone the rebellion would have had a much harder if not impossible time overthrowing the empire.
@@khadenallast4495 a dedicated naval combatant with the extra cargo and acommadotion devoted to extra weapoans amd reactors
I think the exclusion of Venetors is one of the greatest flaws in Imperial fleet makeups. The Quasar seems like a cheaper alternative to what at one point was classified as a capital-ship class vessel but honestly, an Imperial fleet made up of two Venetors for every ISD would much more succinctly question even large Rebel fleets, due to star fighter numbers alone. Another issue that would supremely fix Imperial superiority and escort fleets is a complete revamp of their star fighters. The entire dogma of “bigger is better” is the reason Imperial fleets are so inferior to even a comparable CIS fleet. Tactical ommand capabilities asside, I’d much rather have a Lucrehulk with a small CIS support fleet over any standard Imperial fleet exlusively for the fighter superiority. The ARC-170s were big and bulky but a multi-purpose ship like that seems right up the Imperial alley. Light bombing, anti-dog fighting (rear mounted cannons), highly specialised recon, and the capability to traverse hyper-space make them one of the objectively best fighters in my opinion.
I also think the strange lack of corvettes and other smaller ships is important. Your inclusion of Raiders is an idea I’ve always wondered about since BF2. With (small) hangars and the absolutely disgusting amount of anti-fighter weapons seems like the perfect make up of a lightning strike ship. Having an entire superiority fleet pop up will stop anything from moving forward and the ability ot launch a large squadron of anti-fighter ships close to the enemy would make Thrawn-like maneuvers easy for any Imperial officer.
I would replace the CR-92s and 2 of the Raider corvettes with Tartan-class patrol cruisers and the 2 Nebulon-b frigates with a couple of Arquetins light cruisers.
Or gladiators or a victory class
Good point. The Arquitebs was especially good at countering fleets of smaller, more-nimble ships which the Alliance fielded.
(cough - whatever size it was)
TARTAN PATROL CRUISER, REPORTING
He is a republic simp
Just wanna share the standard Imperial fleet I always had in my mind, fairly cheap but flexible enough imo
1 Star Destroyer as the flagship
2-4 Arquitens Cruisers as the main support ships because they have a balanced mix between turbo lasers and point defense cannons while also carrying 3-10 star fighters along with torpedo tubes depending on the variant
Around 4-6 Raider II Corvettes because they're great corvettes and served their role well
1 Gladiator as the main carrier. The official stats says that it can only carry around 24 fighters but this is most likely an uneducated guess considering it's literally 600 meters long and 126 meters high. Also the fact that it's inside is nearly 99% hangar it makes the official count of 24 starfighter seem like a typo, maybe it was meant to be 240? Metanerdz Lore has done a breakdown on how many starfighter it can actually carry so I'll take his guess of around 220 starfighters(not considering the ceiling mounted TIE-Fighter racks which could easily double or triple this number) a much more acceptable amount of fighter compliment
1 Interdictor Class Star Destroyer for obvious reasons
I tried to make it as small as possible since we see most of the time that Star Destroyers often travel alone or just in groups of 3 so I hope this would explain why I used so few ships
If I have to go even smaller then I'll go with
1 Star Destroyer as the flagship
3 Arquitens cruisers as anti-everything but capital ships. This will be pushing the capabilities of my cruisers but hey, they have 8 point defense cannons, 8 light turbo lasers, 4 missile tubes and 3-10 starfighter you can't go more cheap and versatile than that especially for a light cruiser
2 Raider II corvettes, I feel like I'm stretching it by adding this two corvettes but if I can this will definitely be great ships to have in my fleet
I just did my own rough calculations to prove this gladiator comment wrong because I thought 200+ ties sounded ridiculous, but after 20 minutes of scale calculations (+guesstimating), angular formulas, and getting rough volumetric data- I found that you’re completely correct, and 24 was probably supposed to be 240*
I accounted for everything- like the hanger height not being nearly as high as the total height, how that height lowers as it goes towards the mouth of the hanger, (estimates on height of rear hanger to height of front hanger, and then triangle formula to solve height-depression), and then I even accounted for tie volume filling up hanger volume while discounting ample space around each tie to account for realistic spacing and other operations/equipment/stuff in the hanger
I friggin blew 20 minutes just to tell you that mathematically, the gladiator can definitely hold 220-240 ties, if not even more
Low key a little mad too but bravo sir 😂🙏🏻
@@pilzner1118 No that's a wholesome outcome. So civilized
#askeck
Could you do a series on this with every fleet please?
Love your videos and keep up the good work!
You propose the Enforcer, I bring up the Procursator. It's a medium-sized star destroyer, slightly larger than a Victory, that with its powerful frontal batteries can provide more than half of the ISD II's firepower, and can contend with the Star Destroyer's main Octuple batteries in terms of range.
That of course does mean that you would have to sacrifice the Enforcer's interdiction technology, So I personally wouldn't include it in fleets designed to hunt rebels groups, rather those designed to defend vulnerable targets against strikes from faster rebel support ships.
*There's no Imperial fleet without good old star destroyers*
Robert the Dude that’s for sure
This is the way.
I fully agree with your fleet. Though I might occasionally replace the Carracks with either Strike class or Dreadnaught class cruisers. Or most likely varying between the three, Carracks being the more common of the three but I feel the other two could from time to time take its place
I did like the Imperial refits from the Thrawn Trilogy, decently balanced cruisers to supplement the fleet.
Strike s are great
I feel that the Victory/Victoria-class SDs and the Venadors are criminally under-rated.
Yes. A Victory is a great escort for an ISD.
@@iainhowe4561 How so? the victory has all the weaknesses of the ISD without some of its major advantages. What precisely is it offering to the ISD? its really more of a budget ISD when you cant afford the real thing, not a support ship in any way, as far as I can see.
@@lenkagamine4145 The Victory is actually very effective as a support ship, both the Victory 1 and 2 had laser cannons (though not a lot) and allowed some fighter defense (much more than the ISD class 2's zero laser cannons) while still being able to fight off larger cruisers and frigates. While they should not ever be the only thing supporting an ISD, they are an excellent choice and work well with the Star Destroyers.
@@lenkagamine4145 Missiles, they offer missiles. Missiles will just about fuck everything ranging from a fighter to heavier cruisers.
@@bloodypine22 I dunno about that. Never seen a victory destroy a large capital ship, and fighters seem to be the most effective point defense in star wars, hence why thats all the empire uses.
Kinda think the smaller variant of the Providence can do those things better than the victory anyways.
Besides of which, an escort should be at least as fast as the thing its escorting, or else it will be left behind. And I'm almost positive Victory's are slower than ISD's. Thats kinda a large part of why ISD's rarely have support, they're actually really fast.
Love going back through these older videos for the Eck doctrine.
HEY! I just used your superiority Imperial fleet design in the Empire at War Remake Mod, and I was able to DECIMATE a rebel fleet within 2 minutes as compared to 10 minutes. :)
I just spam crimson commands and I am set
#AskEck
Would it be reasonable to refit the Venator Star Destroyer with octuple barbet turbolasers instead of just dual turbolasers, multiplying its potential firepower by 4 times.
Edit: added askeck tag
I would say it will increase the energy demand, and it needs to come from somewhere, like taking some power from energy shield
@@oakwhelie you can increase the size of the reactor. Do you remember in the Clone Wars TV show there's a lot of empty space in reactor room.
@@kroganbers3rker778 they also could have made a mark II version of the venator which is larger (between 1,2 and 1,4 km) so it can have the weapons and the fighters
Probably would be best to leave the dedicated anti-capital weaponry to the ISD, due to the Venator's relatively weak hull and shielding, and as stated before the more cannons on the batteries would need to draw power from somewhere - likely shields or mobility. However, you could probably get away with making them quadruple turbolaser batteries, along with making the medium turbolasers mounted in the barbettes at the front quad batteries (quad turbolasers being four barrelled, shorter ranged, but faster firing). This would be good for when hostile vessels get in close, due to the reduced firing arcs of the cannon by nature of their mounting style. You don't need your most powerful weaponry there most of the time since the eight batteries on the dorsal side have the better firing angles compared to them, but spitting out more power faster when it comes time for a close-in, fight-for-your-life knife fight between surprise capital ships and the Venator. However, if you were deploying the fleet properly, the Venator would be back and out of range of the main combat, flooding space with their snubfighters while flanked with anti-corvette and anti-snubfighter screens, while the ISDs and their escorts would be sent forward to perform the brunt of the ship-to-ship combat and keeping fire away from the carrier
@@Director_Orson_Krennic the Venator and the ISD a match made in heaven, if only it were actually implemented.
I’d love to see an equivalent of this for the Rebels, Republic and CIS. Great vid.
An Empire set in galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars would be impossible to control or defend since it would be impossible to find and destroy any rebellion, especially if there is so much place to hide and you only have a few hundred thousand ships at your disposal.
That's the issue the Tarkin doctrine was supposed to address. Have powerful and intimidating ships, like the ISD, to scare your potential enemies into obedience regardless of their advantages. This could've worked too if the empire didn't mismanage their navy.
As long as you focus down the main hyperspace routes that will significantly decrease the area you need to maintain active control over. Still leave a a lot but it becomes more manageable.
this is the very reason the outer rim and the unknown regions exists.
@@carrosivejones1969 Yea agreed. Problem was the ISD's would fall fast without support. Maybe just give 10% of the budget to support ships for them instead of 0%.
Don’t forget the amount of bureaucracy it takes to rule so many planets. If it was so centralized, things would bog down so hard it would take years to push any decision through
I feel like the venator's turbo lasers are underrated as its turbo lasers are classified as heavy turbo lasers and they can draw power directly from the reactor to just keep on firing endless volleys of turbo laser fire. But that's just one man's opinion
So can an ISD.
9:28 How dare you! I accuse you of treason against the grand army of the republic.
Designer: "So, how do you want the basic design?"
Emperor: "It could definitively use a stupidly big bridge with no other support systems".
Warlords: "Great idea, we should also make the point defense systems non existent and also the Starfighters should resemble one use suicide crafts".
Emperor: "Yes, yes, Dark side aprroves."
Designer: Poker face. 😐
r/malitiouscompliance
actually, it was tarkin, not emperor
Reminds me of that “Death Star architect speaks” video where the Emperor suggests increasing the tunnel for DS2 from “X-Wing sized” to “Millennium Falcon sized”. The engineers readily agree
@@artembentsionov MAGIC SPACE WIZARDS
The acclemator isn't that ugly, it's just the bridge that ruins the look. It looks like that sentient Pixar Light
HAC well it doesn’t actually have windows it has lots of sensors to bring up a big advanced projection of the surrounding environment that’s why it’s weird and round. And I agree it isn’t ugly, I like it.
I know I'm extra late to this, but any fleet that involves one or more Venators is good enough for me. They might not be the best ship, but I think they're very underrated and are very useful when placed with other ships. Plus, like you said, they are a carrier too, I doubt you could fit any AT-ATs within them, but once again, as you mentioned, this job would likely be given to the ISD instead and would allow the Venator to carry fighters instead and a lot of them at that, plus with a seemingly easy to access hangar, they'd be easy to deploy and easy to land into incase they needed to retreat. Though their defence capability isn't as good as the ISD, I feel it would still give any opponent a good fight.
Me looking at this video's way to fix the navy: _this is brilliant_ but I prefer this.
Take your favorite blue boy with a 300IQ count, clone it, spread it and Voila! (sure it those not "fix" the navy in term of ship but I feel like most ship are fine it's just how they're used in a wrong way.)
How to fix the imperial navy, take thrawn and put him in charge of everything. Then establish a proper military culture rather than one of cutthroat captain looking for the next advancement not by way of Vader or palpatine killing your prior.
I have a better idea, clone pelleaon instead, we'll have a commanding figure that actually survives for more than a single campaign.
Well, I'd say you pretty much nailed it. Especially giving Acclamators in to the mix. While primarily transports, these babies throw quite a punch, so you effectively have cruiser grade ships added in to the mix, while carying supplies for the rest of the fleet.
One thing I would do with the Venator might actually be long ramge plasma gun, akin to to Aggressor class, if it would fit, giving the Venator aditional functionality as long range artilery support.
I quite like the acclamator.
Outside of that I like this fleet comp for sure.
I also can see 2 Venators escorting a ISD. Also since the empire used droids, guarding key planets they could have kept the lukrahulks to be essentially planet guarding mobile space stations.
That would be the resource protection and civilian force
Great vid Eck, I always enjoy Star Wars TH-camrs that make sense!
Vs matchup
Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars)
Yes
Bah Johnson is killed by a stupid orb, Rex is regularly outnumbered 100 to one and fought/survived/won two wars despite accelerated aging, and betraying the elite 501st for lady tano.
even so Jacob you gotta think about that, that orb shot a Pretty strong laser fast and tht laser knocked chief down and damaged his mjolnir armor even
ontop of that compared to what kind of armor rex has vs chief rex wouldn't survive it. it'd be the same case that happend to johnson by far unless rex would have other people with him at this point if they ever met the orb
with that considered they could kill it but someone would die
Dunno if you had done this but would love to see a sort of series of fixing fleets for every faction since, other than the rebels, almost all the time factions composed their fleets poorly.
(Republic with their "3 Venators for all", CIS munificent spam, Empire ISD spam, etc). It also helps to give a better understanding of how to build fleets for EaW.
The venitor class works for the carrier and victory 1 and 2 work then the ISD 1 and 2 are heavy duty. Thank you for this!
I would personally also add Tartan class patrol cruisers. Wookieepedia states that they were as armed and armored as a Lancer, but about as fast as a Carrack. They've only really appeared in Empire at War, so I have no idea if they're still even canon or not. Great video though, keep it up!
I want to see an updated Essential Guide to Warfare that has Canon stats for everything.
I've always asked myself a similar question to this video, and I must say that I really agree with your choices for support craft, except for the Nebulon-B frigates. Honestly, they feel way too out-of-place, and I would much rather trade both them and your CR-95s in for another Enforcer/Vindicator. All-in-all, awesome video! I'm really surprised at how similar our doctrines are for fleet-building.
Step 1,...
REMOVE PLOT ARMOR!!!
Step 2: build a time machine and tell George Lucas to be more on the imperial side.
Step3: mix the isd with the venator
Plot armor never goes away from any story. Period.
@@Luciferdesrea *Ain't ThaT tHE TRutH.*
Luciferdesrea yep, it’s been around for thousands of years. Every epic has some larger-than-life person shrugging off blows and strikes that would kill a normal person
Great video Echhart! It's why I subscribed to you channle.
And I really liked the music also. It was still "you" while still being mellow and relaxing.
This is fantastic. Also, could you direct a SW film battle? yes.
I think having the venator in the rear is a great way to cover the isd as ties didnt have hyper drives so it makes sense that ties would deploy from the venator to cover the isd as it's ties would be deployed after creating a swarm
Personally i think the Empire would require an entirely different approach to capship design.
Their fleet seems geared towards fighting an enemy with equal capship focus, which the Rebellion just isn´t.
Or any other faction left after the Clone Wars. None are a viable threat requiring such a layout for a main capital ship like the IMPSTAR.
@@khadenallast4495 Basically a defense force made up of picket ships, nice idea, the VT-49 Decimator is pretty much this.
You just need to raise production numbers.
@@khadenallast4495 YES, give it some extra boost, and a nice heck spoiler!
@@khadenallast4495 ISD is 1.6 kilometers long XD
And i agree, TIE pilots would be a good choice.
But if a spoiler is unnecessary, explain THIS: th-cam.com/video/_xZRUna0nak/w-d-xo.html
@@khadenallast4495 Nah, i´m just joking.
Stupid nonsense blabbering, making fun!
Also Yamiks makes fun "Ship Reviews".
@@khadenallast4495 Ah yes, i totally get your point.
This CAN sometimes least to some awkward details XD
Good episode! Nice Imperial fleet formation. You’re strong with the Dark Side....
It would be nice if there was an Imperial remodeled/upgraded Venator. In other words, something that looks more imperial.
Even though I'm not an expert on all three ships, this makes sense to me.
This what you do creates variety and gives more types of ships to the table. I would definitely also use Vemators as support ships. I would also use them for rebel fleets ad carriers. They have lots of space for fighters so that is an asset.
My Fleet or Flotilla task force composition would consist of: 1 ISD, 1 Interdictor, 1 Victory class, 1 Venator, 6 Raider Corvettes
Good and bata task force would be 1 ISD 4 Victory class and 1 Venator class.
@@mikekean8344 the vangurad
Ideally in empire at war I try to keep three ISD's at least with a equal number of Victory class and sometimes a Acclamator will find it's way in the formation but with a couple lancers and carrack's in support and at least 10 Ton- falk escort carriers. Strike cruisers are also very effective I find for capital ship support. So I keep many smaller support ships and carriers in reserve as reinforcements as well if possible. But the key is yes have effective powerful ships but screened and supported by the smaller vessels and overwhelm with endless fighters while bombers take out the enemy capital ship strong points as the enemy line begins to open up to your assault.
Eckharts: Hey guys I put out a new video
Audience: cool
Eckharts: There’s a Venator in the thumbnail
Audience: HOLY SHIT PLAY IT RIGHT NOW
I'll keep this in mind when I play Empire at War next time. Thank you, EckhartsLadder!
Might not be a bad idea to strip the turbo lasers off the Venator and replace them with more laser cannons. That way it can provide extra anti-fighter defense towards the fleets vulnerable rear.
I like the idea of the escort fleets but I'd give them at least one Turbolaser-heavy light Capital ship. I think a Vindicator would do for that role in larger escort fleets, and for smaller ones an Arquitens would do. That way if the Rebels do come with a larger vessel (like MC-30s or Alliance Assault Frigates) then the Empire has something capable of duking it out with that vessel long enough for heavier ships to arrive and reinforce like maybe a reserve of Enforcers or a Dreadnaught Heavy Cruiser. The Dreadnaught is a great anti-capital ship and possesses a lot of firepower for its size. It's perfect for potential reinforcement.
The perfect fleet is simply the Eclipse II equipped with a plot armor jamming system
:)
Assuming I can refit the ships to have a similar hyperdrive rate and sunlight speed, I would do 1 ISD, 1 victory, and one venator as my core, a pair of interdictors as support, and a pair of quasars as support, 4 nebulon B, and fill the rest of the complement with raiders and cr90s. For small craft, the quasars would be assigned wings of gunships, the ISD would be assigned its standard endor complement as to include interceptors and bombers and the venator would be assigned a wing of arc 170s, a wing of defenders and the standard ties to fill out the rest.
To clarify, the arc's and and gunship would serve as initial pickets and special mission units along side the defenders, and I should also add lambda shuttles to each hangar equipped ship.
Great video also here are some ideas
Unsc Inifinty vs Uss Enterprise
Master Chief vs Samus Aran
Samus Aran Vs Darth Vader
ᏚᎪᎷᏌᏚ ᎪᎡᎪN? ᎡᎬᎪᏞᏞY?
ᏚᎻᎬ ᏆᏚ NᎾ ᎷᎪᎢᏟᎻ FᎾᎡ Ꭺ ᏚᏌᏢᎬᎡ ᏚᎾᏞᎠᏆᎬᎡ NᎾᎡ Ꭺ ᏚᏆᎢᎻ, ᏟᎻᏆᏞᎠ ᎷᏌᎡᎠᎬᎡᏆNᏩ, ᏚᎪNᎠ ᎻᎪᎢᏆNᏩ, ᎪNᎠ Ꭺ ᎠᎪᎡK ᏞᎾᎡᎠ
Mr. great Reply when you know how to use a normal fucking font
I'm really happy that you included the Venator class. Also, I love the Acclamator. It's not the best looking, but it certainly beats out the Praetor mk. II for me (I find that ship hideous).
Arquitens be crying in the corner 😔
Great vid...the Raiders can also function as long range early warning for the battle group ;) I completely agree that with a Venator, the ISD would be far better protected especially if they had higher quality fighters over the TIEs
Refitted Dreadnought class heavy cruisers, one or two of these could greatly improve combat effectiveness vs capital ships
Strike Cruisers and Escort Carriers, the ECs were almost as fast as a Quasar but had more hanger space, and Strike Cruisers were some of the faster strike craft in the Imperial Navy and packed some serious firepower for their size.
Wassup eck
Love your vids
I have a question:
What do you think is the best role in the Clone army? #AskEck
Same as Imperial Guard, Mobile Artillery.
Far enough back to not get shot, Still get to use the biggest guns on land.
Important enough you wont get Re assigned to the front lines and if the enemy gets too close you can retreat with your vehicle.
Cook.
Aclomaters are the LITERAL GOATS, some of the fastest hyperdrives, Insanely good weaponry, & you can easily switch out their massive troop carrying capabilities for fighters or cargo, & the cherry on top is that they only take 720 crewmen
Love your content eck keep it up
A very extremely great video as always EckhartsLadder, and I agree with you fleet set up.
No Arquitens ? I think they may be good support ship that could fulfil both anti capital ships and anti fighters. Put some Ion cannons and anti fighters gun, and you have a nice ship against pirates and rebells.
I think the imperial fleets in the Rebels cartoon were a bit more like Eck wants. Plenty of Arquitens on display, interdictors and carriers.
Except plot armor and boring fights where the imperials literally can’t hit or dew anything.
I think, that you could maybe even downscale it further, because the imp. Fleets always had the higher firepower until the later phase of the rebellion( and some excuses here and there). I think you could make the Victory Star Destroyer the capital Ship of the Fleet and put some ISD‘s in strategic/key locations from where they could quickly reinforce the smaller Fleets with the Victorys, because the empire always dictated capital Ship size. Also replace the Tie fighter of possible.
Damn, the empire should have hired this man, he seems to be an actual General!
More like an Admiral
Nah, he's not pointlessly cruel enough
weldonwin except when he bullies the acclimatior, which is not ugly.
Ever considered the Tartan Patrol Craft from Legends?
Also, Unfound sounds amazing! Thanks for advertising his work Eck!
I'm Empire at War, I'd always use the same Imperial Fleet build, 1 ISD backed up by 2 Vics and 4 Accumulators. If I had the option I'd throw in 2 Venators, superior fire power mixed with flexibility.
That would be the law enforcement fleets
Nice. For Superiority I usually go with 2 ISD I or II, 2 Victory's I or II, 3 Tartan Patrol, and round it out with either 2 Nebulon B2's or Strike Cruisers... It works incredibly well in many Empire at War mods.
Now, if I have Vader, well then I try to recreate his fleet from Empire, with his Executor, plus 6 ISD's, 2 Victory's, and then a few anti-fighter craft for good measure...
Imagine worrying about tactics or fleet composition, instead of sending 10 big space doritos to solve the problem
Good video. I like the ISD and Raiders, but I think I would substitute the Strike-class cruiser for the others. Configure two for carrier duty and one for anti-capship duty, and you have a flexible, formidable fleet.
Tarkin has disliked the video.
Nah, man, grand Admiral Thrawn has liked this video.
This is a really good analysis. Personally, I would want to get a second Enforcer if resources permitted so that I could screen both sides of the ISD, extend the effective range of my fleet to cover a wider area, and make it harder for enemy ships to break through or flank.
The Tarkin Doctine. Such an ineffective strategy. The Empire would have benefited greatly without it.
Captain Cutter i agree
Captain Cutter agreed.
It was effective at what it was meant to do, intimidate the masses, the rebel alliance would be a lot bigger without the fear factor of thee Tarkin Doctrine.
Just Another Gamer yeah but blowing up Alderaan had the opposite effect
I like your solution! I think it’s very well balanced, and greatly complements the ISDs strengths. The one thing I would add would be missile and torpedo launchers to the Venator, so that it could provide additional fire-support.
Edit: I’d also add at least 4 VT-49 Decimators and a few Vigil corvettes.
9:30
"She was built in Republic times, held together by bits of bind"
"We're waiting for the day, waiting for the day! Waiting for the day that we get our pay"
Top ten most underrated comments
I think, if the acclamator was reoutfitted with a ton of laser cannons and targeting computers, it would be a very competent anti-fighter ship. Pair three of these with a couple arquitens, a wing of tie defenders escorting, and maybe an interdictor waiting in the wings, and you have a pretty good quick-response force whenever small hotspots of rebel activity show up
#ASKECK Can you do the Gray Paladins from coruscant nights? They're a Jedi faction that used blasters and other weapons one was so good that she was able to send one of her own bolts straight up an enemy's blaster barrel. They also believed in using the force as little as possible so they focused on other skills like martial arts and military tactics like guerrilla warfare, urban tactics, espionage, and infiltration.
You my dude...just made the perfect fleet.
Makes me think of our navy today...like...the venator is the perfect aircraft carrier and the smaller ships are destroyers...and of course...the ISD is the perfect battleship/destroyer
"how to fix imperial fleets"
so I got this new idea, we kamikaze our ships against the consortium, then we initiate Operation Bullet Hell and rebuild the fleet, using all our pop cap to build broadsides and tartan patrol cruisers.
EAW related joke btw.
Fleet’s and space tactics are the video’s I am hunting right now and I am again excited to find myself watching an Eckhart video.
Weird you didn't include much the gladiator star destroyer... 🤔
They were designed specifically for ISD support.
Lord Zephyros Gladiator-class?
@@nicholasfarrell5981 yes
@Caedmon Kline mayyybe 😉
I found most of the suggestions rather fitting. the Empire's near fetish for the Tarkin doctrine lead to many strategic and even tactical mistakes by Imperial commanders at critical points. Yes, it had its victories, and even stymied the growth of the Rebellion for a time, but it also gave fuel to the flames. The Emperor utterly dismissing the Rebellion as a threat was also a factor, but even then, Imperial command was simply to caught up in the idea that just their presence would strike enough fear to prevent dissension and rebellion where ever they went. The designs were all well and good for fighting a war like that of the Clone Wars, with fairly set battle lines and large scale fleet and planetary actions. Fighting an asymmetrical war, the Imperial fleet doctrine was horribly mismatched, because the Rebellion could choose most of the time when and where they struck for maximum gain at minimal risk. I would do much as you did with the reorganization, and pretty much treat the fleets like modern day Carrier groups here on good old Earth. Large, fighter spewing carriers guarded by heavier armed capital ships and lighter escort vessels. While an ISD is a capable Carrier, its more a Capital ship brawler than it is a Carrier. As we are not dealing with the inefficiencies of Imperial Strike craft, I won't bring it up here, but it only adds to the fact that ISDs were more fear tools than proper multi role capital ships.
Eck, why not consider the Tartan Partol corvette instead of the CR90? yes the CR90 is better, but the TP has a more "imperial" look to it :)
The funny thing is most ships the rebellion outside of the mon cal ships, the empire have access to. The cr90s are imperial diplomatic corvettes but could be used in imperial fleets.
@@seanrea550 very true! i was thinking completely on ascetics i guess lol
The rogue squadron quote we both like does not say the lancer is fast, it just says that it is fast for it's size
Why the Enforcer rather than the Vindicator?
There is only one thing needed to "fix" their fleets. Fill their squadrons. The normal ISDs are supposed to have 72 fighters, Ton Falks 72 as well. Can't remember with Quasar, but it was substantial.
The rebels had better, but far less fighters. The Mon Cal Cruisers had 48-96 fighters, Nebula Bs had 18-24, but the Empire greatly outnumbered the Rebels. Even if X & A Wings were better, but facing 3:1 odds, they would usually lose to even a below average tactician opponent. Even if they could defeat the TIEs, they'd have their hands full while the ISDs closed and wiped out any capital support.
If they just actually fielded their fighter, interceptor, and bomber wings, they could protect the cap ships and chase down rebels. Adding in raiders, carracks, etc., would be nice, but truly not needed with full fighter support.
If the want to go real hard-core, give their fighters shields / missles and their utility shoots up.
Why wouldn't you use a DP20 over the CR90?? Especially if you were using your corvettes for anti- starfighter screening??? #askeck
I heard an interesting argument for why Star Destroyers are so ridiculously designed.
Star Wars canonically has 1970s future tech, their sensors were relatively bad and even less reliable in battles due to jamming and ion weapons, meaning that these big bridges are necessary to see what’s going on in a battle.
Shield bubbles are stupid though
I think you are asking for too much in this list. You have 7 different models of ships and three of which are very large capitol ships. The production cost for one battle group is far too large. You also have to remember that some of the ships are far too similar. Why are you using carracks and nebulons. Also why cr95s and raiders. It makes no sense. Why use the enforcer as extra firepower when the venator provides that and carries fighers.
Dab Daniel
Well the Venator, as Eck said, would be automated or operated by a skeleton crew, with the sole purpose of it being to launch fighters rather than sit in the front lines.
You wouldn’t need to produce the Venators since the Republic had done that for you; you just repurpose the existing ones.
Then to balance costs, I’d cut down on the total number of ISD’s to create fewer but more well rounded battle groups that are going to be far more efficient in combat than what the Empire fielded. It makes more sense to do that than continually waste credits on replacing destroyed ISD’s because your battle groups can’t properly protect them.
The gunboats should work. Heck, assault transports / Escort Transports can be turned into killers if you remove their carry capacity (basically go the same way Soviets turned Mi-8 frame into Mi-24). They were always the worst opponent in X-Wing/TIE series :)
Also... Rework the ISD to use fully the hull volume. Reduce crew by more automation, instead triple the hangar capacity (I mean a comparatively tiny Nimitz class carrier can carry 90 planes...)
to me, adding 2 Venator's and 10 Quasar's would drastically increase their fleet capabilities
a trio of Victories and Acclimator's for support and land invasion/cargo transport
raider's and CR92's for anti-fighter capability along with Lancer and Carrek ship's to support
and for other option's, an interdictor with Nebulon B's in escort to help my fleet
if anything, I would like to upgrade any if not all of these ship's to be better suited for flexibility and combat
Or civilian carrying capacity
@@mikekean8344 oh true, more troops on the ground to add support or to evacuate civilians in need
@@LoneWolf20213 that is correct 100 present
@@mikekean8344 I get it, ground battle's are how war's are won, though I think I would add some droid ship's and starfighter's as well since they were cheap and easy to replace
@@LoneWolf20213 well if you use droid ships you will have the firepower to keep the invaders back while you evacuate the civilians from the planet.