Bart vs the Texas Rake: Who Will Win?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- A local Texas poker player calls in and gives his take on why he thinks that Texas rake isn't so bad. He also discusses a hand where in a limped pot he flops the second nut flush and what line is best in order to maximize value.
0:00 - Discussion about Texas Rake
10:30 - Intro on the hand
11:33 - Preflop
13:20 - Flop
19:14 - Turn
10:10 - Breaking the Threshold
21:50 -- Unique 4 flush situation
26:14 - Hero decision
27:17 - River
27:33 - Reveal
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I'm on tilt now because the caller drove me nuts.
I’m halfway through the call and rooting hard for the villain
@@user-fb6xj9ez7p Don't worry, villain is a donkey too
Oh, he's fine...
Maybe you need to relax, meditate and sleep. ;)
That’s on you. Dude was super knowledgeable and very respectful. Maybe you’re just immature?🤷♂️
21:27 “if he has THIS ONE SPECIFIC HAND COMBO…. THEN IM WAY BEHIND”
Lol
Playing for a week in Dallas next week and couldn't be more excited after this call
I love how Bart is trying to put people on ranges based on the fact that they limped in a certain position. 7 people limped in a small stakes game. Their range is that they probably have 2 cards.
😂
....and some of those cards might even be from an Uno deck.
As Bart has said, players that flop small flushes and get it counterfeited, still tend to overvalue their flush.
The caller is entirely missing the point about clubs taking rake. The clubs in Houston are no longer being raided precisely because the authorities are satisfied that the “social club” model is permissible as long as members are playing for time and the club isn’t taking rake. Any poker rooms that decide to take rake are expressly stepping outside of the social club model and are at a decent risk of getting shut down.
Thank You! Club fee/pay by hr= Legal. Taking a "Rake"=Not legal.
I wish California can do the same, the stupid casinos here are outragous
Villain calls in next week “so anyway, I limp from +1 with a suited two gapper, and everybody calls.”
💀
$10/hand is really close to $7/hour in the caller's world. This guy must win a ton of hands.
Just having silly promotions and free food doesn't come close to making up that difference.
u mean not win a lot of hands?
Yup. $250/hour vs $56/hour for the house. I wouldn't be surprised if they pot rake places have triple the net profit.
@@drewcundari8773sarcasm
It is really close. The $10 per hand rake only results in an extra $200-$300 being taken off the table every hour. What's a few hundred an hour? LOL
21:30 I love that caller is such an OMC that he’s convinced villain is loose enough to limp with 53dd from UTG+1 but also would never call a bet with a set/two pair/Jdx
It's even more ridiculous that he knows the guy cold-called the $180 on the flop but thinks he would fold for $200 on the turn with 2 pair or a set. Just completely incoherent logic this guy is spewing...
Caller seemed super confused why a set with 22% equity against him would call a a small turn bet getting the direct odds to call
He says he doesn't want to lead turn because he doesn't think anything worse will call, so he elects to jam instead so that " he doesn't see the river pair " , so he wants to bluff with the nuts, yikes!
He said he’s a rec
I thought this was a good call. Listening to these calls with betting strategy from Bart is appreciated. I understand the caller had a sincere opinion but for me $7 an hour is way better than a rake even with zero risk of a raid.
Free drinks tho man, if you're drinking that's +EV
The places with the high hand and car giveaways may be fishier...
@@travisdonley8768 Borrowing happiness from tomorrow is -EV
I think possibly good way to describe the rake model would be "predatory"
yeah i was in two minds but mathematically rake will end up much more expensive.
i used to think rake was better coz you only pay when you win! dumb thinking i know
Watauga got raided on day 2 of a 100k tourney and the cops stole all the money
Caller is completely delusional - no winning player would prefer $10/hand vs $7/hour just to get some free beer and watch somebody else win some gimmicky promotion. Clubs taking rake are breaking the law, just because current city/county leadership isn't pursuing them doesn't mean that won't change in the future.
Those aren't the numbers lol. Why lie like that if you have the best argument?
$7/hr lol. You're insane.
@@therealjackwhite1523 Caller literally says $7/hr in the video...
@@therealjackwhite1523 Here's some real numbers though, since you're so concerned: $13/hr at a TCH location as opposed to a pretty standard rake of 10% up to $5 + $2 for promo. And since at the low stakes the standard open is $10-15 and most hands go multiway, you're basically guaranteed to be paying $7 per pot.
Unless you're the caller, it really shouldn't be difficult for you to figure out which is better for the winning player.
I believe this caller greatly underestimates the ability of the law in Texas to do whatever the F they want.
I play at Legends only during the day when it's free play. The poker scene isn't as robust as I thought it would be in Houston. Rare 24hr games and most of the clubs listed on the poker apps aren't even open.
Houston Local: numbers $7/Hr. Seat fee no door fee. Plus $2 take per hand. Let’s assume 30 hands on high side per hour. That’s an extra $60 if you assume 8 handed play $7.50 per house divided evenly you are paying $14.50 per hour on average. Playing 1/3$ uncapped with a $6 btn straddle 1/3/6$. $14.50 you get free food and drinks (non alcoholic) and there is bad beat jackpots $5k progressive. Not terrible Vs a $10-12 seat fee plus $10 typical door fee. Plus Legends has 8+ games/tables going 24/7. I did the math and I hate rake but the value is close.
Rooting for you in the main event regardless of weather I win a piece!
OMC is crazy here. The clubs giving the most back down here are the ones doing it legally. I literally got 40 hours for $100 at Capri in South Houston area the other day. They must be handing out lobsters at Legends lol.
This is much better in long version than the short
The big problem here is that the caller simply doesn't understand that you MAKE your money in poker by getting opponents to call with worse when you're ahead; or folding a better hand. You can't be seeing monsters under the bed all the time. Straight flushes that require 2 cards are just too rare. Betting the turn here is 100%. I had a similar hand awhile back where I had KK with the K of diamonds. The board was like Ad 3s 5d 8d 4d. The flop action checked around 4 ways. Turn the HJ bet into me (on the button), I call and the SB calls. The river checked to me, of course I bet and now the SB raises. On one hand, what else can he be raising here but the straight flush; but on the other, why didn't he bet or check-raise the turn? At that point he doesn't have the nuts, but does have a flush. I still had to make the call, simply because the craziest bluffs are still going to be more frequent than a straight flush. Sure enough though I get shown 67 of diamonds.
I would have played the hand as if villain had AdXo, a set, or something like 6d5d. Turn rules out the first one. He did fine to jam turn, I might have just minraised or 2.5x'ed it, depending upon how likely I thought a set was, vs underflush, vs straight flush draw. Make him put more money in the pot before a board pair or 3d.
Any turn raise looks super strong, so I'd just try picking an amount he would call not only with hands which are drawing to 1 or 10 outs, but also with ones that are drawing dead. You'd be shocked at how many people would call a $180 minraise there with one out, just to see if they hit the straight flush, when they'd never call with 2 pair and 4 outs to a boat.
Predatory in the sense that all the donkeys are going there to maybe win a car?
Kinda ironic to complain about predators taking away your prey.
Just wondering if the places with the high hands etc draw a weaker field.
Your link to the giveaway isn’t working, it’s not clickable.
Poker is alive and well.
The fact that the chips stay on the table is a major reason why time games are better than rake games.
Texas club in watuga was raided in October with chips seized and $360 tickets written. Charges were dropped by the DA but I had heard they raided for suspicion of rake as well as the owner running backroom table games.
This is 100% true. Other Dallas area clubs immediately stopped taking $1/hand for promo’s. Watauga was Raided on the last day of a huge tournament, resulting in large amounts of cash seized. The PD can now fund armored vehicles 🤣
So rakes are illegal in texas? Wish it was the same here. California rakes are stupid for low stakes, reason why I rather drive to vegas
@@albertwang6465 If tons of people keep showing up and playing, of course they are going to continue taking an expensive rake. Why wouldn't they? People love throwing away money on stupid shit and high-rake poker is no exception. See also: 6-to-5 blackjack and triple-zero roulette. People STILL play that crap and most players don't care.
combo draws might call the flop. ace diamonds with an offsuit 5 or 3 is a combo draw and it's texas / a soft game where they love junk aces. ace with a pair as you mentioned.
Most rooms that take rake also extend credit to known players.
It's one thing to think J8 of diamonds is good on the flop. After the turn though there's no universe where it's good. :)
from villian perspective weird he didnt bet the flop himself either, and then on turn I would check a fair amount of the time there to give hero chance to bluff river and pot control against the better flushes.
I’m in Europe and I would love a membership format rather than rake… that said if taking rake is illegal and for some reason the club gets closed down for illegal activity then your probably not getting your money back out of that club, right?
Good morning!
Stopped at 19:39 to say that I disagree with Bart's take that he's not worried about 53dd. 53dd is _exactly_ the hand that someone who decided to limp-call pre, and _then_ limp-call hero's monster check-raise is quite likely to show up with. Especially in an uncapped _Texas_ 1/3 game. Now, I'm never _folding_ in hero's spot once we've gotten this much money in going to the turn - in part because 56dd is the other holding that might get played this way - but I expect to have been turned dead some percentage of the time. And I'm OK with it. At 1.5 SPR at the start of the turn action, I'm going to ride or die with the second nuts.
K, at 28:21 now, and I really think that the play on the turn was for hero to lead small, like 150 or less, and make it look like _he_ was fast-playing a small flush on the flop that's now been downgraded. Hero should have basically no KdXx or QdXx hands, and any Jack-high or ten-high flush should be fist-pump getting it in on the turn against a block sizing...
And if he actually _does_ somehow have 53dd? Too bad, he was getting all our money no matter what.
Lmao at “you mean the hijack right”
“Nope”
I think it's hard to say check call turn lead river is better then check jamming turn. Feel like most low stakes players in villains spot/perspective would assume Q or K would never check jam turn so maybe he just thinks caller is clicking buttons, I think ev would be close especially when you consider that the river lead would maybe not be for the remaining 500 but only 300 or 250. Also check jamming turn is perfect play if villain was turning a set into a bluff because he's fucked himself with the price. Also board will pair 25% of time which will make it significantly harder to get called by worse flushes with the check call, lead line.
Think this is sort of a spot where you should be genuinely be balanced and actually mixing up how you play the nuts
Yup, I like hero's play, you can get called by worse flushes and FH draws that won't fold. At least a min click on the turn, if not jam.
I actually guessed the villains exact hand on the turn. I figured he would open JTdd. The A, K, Q, 9 are accounted for. Therefore J8dd.
Other then that, my only thought is this seems like a very soft game.
By check raising the flop what he does is exactly makes his hand look like what it was. By flatting the flop bet he wouldn't expose the strength. Personally I wouldn't care about ending the hand with the check raise, but of course he's face up at that point.
Legends is $7 an hour plus $2 a hand for the free food
@$10/hrs that's $200 / hrs disappearing. With only time, no money disappears.
Bart is 100% right. I'm in Austin.
Bet when you have the best hand. Don't think "they won't call." You'd be surprised what people will do. Bet your good hands. The money isn't going to put itself into the pot.
All in with AJ with 2 hands to play till day 3? OMG! Obviously you were going to be behind on any callers
Hard to listen to. But great analysis. thanks Bart
I play at underground rooms in New York all the time and one club was raided 3 separate times... before they let the police in (they have a double door with a buzzer) they run around and give everyone their money back.... nothing happens to the players they ask who runs it and who the dealers are and we just play dumb and say we don't know it's our first time there blah blah....cops take chips, tvs, tables everything....1 week later club is up and running in a new location.
Thats because it's legal to play in the games, but it's illegal to host. Same goes for online in NY
I agree with Bart that the flop call isn't the most important thing. The most important thing to me is that there are NINE diamonds in play! Who pulled them out of their sleeves??? 😂
Monsters under the bed. Pops should be blasting off here.
Before the river*
For some reason I think he has the straight flush. Idk what bets on turn
Edit* this was a good call. And makes sense now
At a $10 rake they're taking more than the max Buy in on a 1/2-game every hour. Long-term it would be impossible to profit in this game.
"the days of raids are over" - until the next raid, sigh.
And all this analysis ends up meaningless because as usual the villain was just an idiot.
If I could poker room and charge rake I would do that too shit I’m trying to make money that’s your choice play there or not
Alllso against the law....
@@chriskoshinski I think you missed the "if" up there...
So 1. It’s not about the local municipality. The state can step in at any given time. And taking rake is a clear violation of state law. Period.
Sure. The state can also step in and shut down any of your favorite home games too, but they wont. And the world keeps spinning. However, any of these rooms no matter club, private, casino, start showing some serious money and some higher stakes games, and they'll immediately be on their radar for a raid. They want the Molly's to fry, not the corner drug dealer. They want the guy atleast 4 ladders up from there
Bart is accurate insomuch as it is the LOCAL District Attorney who decides whether to prosecute "private" poker clubs. The Texas Attorney General has inexplicably "sat on his hands" for 4+ years. Notably, these "private" card rooms initially blossomed in Travis County (Austin, TX)...in the State's capital. Bexar County (San Antonio) generally looks the other way. Harris County (Houston) started looking the other way around two years ago, after it was revealed that a Harris County DA's subordinate was taking "protection money". Dallas County (Dallas) is the least hospitable to "private" poker clubs, but TCH and others are litigating into Texas Appellate Courts...buying time for now.
You misspelled Feds
@@Optablethe difference is your "local home game" isn't getting 10 tables.... isn't making 10k+ a night. They will 100% step in.
@@chriskoshinski Don't see it happening any time soon within the state of Texas. Based on over 7 clubs there bringing in rakes that have never even had justice officials step in.
This guy sounds like the guy that sells old guns on pawn stars
Does caller work or own a poker room that takes rake? Can't think of anyone else who would have such a terrible take
He's obviously not a math guy. $250/hour going to the house vs $56. And he thinks sets will fold to a half pot bet on the turn, apparently not realizing their getting nearly pot odds to call.
Hero is also a fool.
ok stopped at 14 min. Two problem with the caller mindset, no it's not guaranteed someone has Ad, infact it's very likely no one has that card. 2. I think check raising is super strong, too strong for a nut flush hand. you want to appear weak in this instant and the best way is by pretending to bet for a draw.
18 min, the caller is completely insane here. The caller can have a range that he would cold call because HE DOESNT KNOW YOU HAVE THE KING HIGH FLUSH, I would cold call this with Queen high flush or even trips depends on the players on board. This is insane saying the caller have Ad
21 min, this guy has no idea how to play poker lmao. No the set wont bet into you, that is why you bet the turn and either 1. The set calls the loses money 95% of the time, or 2. The set folds and loses the 5% chance he hit the quad or boat that will beat your flush. Either one is better than check check and free card on the river for you. So yeah definitely bet on the turn.
What this guy likes or does not like DOES NOT matter! It is ALL about what the laws in Texas say!
They are all in violation of the law. Time vs rake is 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other. My good friends run a club. I hope the DA's look the other way, but we aren't so naive to assume they are "legal".
@@jamesgabel7219 The law allows for "private" games. That is the loop hole that they are using.
100% agree with not raising hands on the bottom edge of our blind raising range against a table of uknowns. Being out of positions is a huge disadvantage.
You know what's even more difficult playing oop in a multiway pot
“Bottom edge” KQs is one of the best hands😂🤣🤣🤣
@@ChrisM-wv4gsexactly lmao🤦♂️🤦♂️😂
@@wompwomp7177 TT+, AQ+. Not KQs.
Can I get a side bet if Bart leads with ‘I’m giving away….’?
time charge and rake are both deadly in the end unless youre a super player and also leveraging poker playing to create other income you will end up broke playing on a regular basis its quite simple
At a 1/2 game.....
Thumb nail is completely ridiculous. Well done Bart.
There is no regulatory agency on poker in Texas so no fear of retaliation from the authorities.
The popular social clubs have no daily fees and give away free food and other enticements to play.
In Hold’em the max buy in is $1K or match a stack.
The players are very sticky at Legends!
Time rake will always be the best deal for the winning players and the worst deal for losing players… when you lose all the pots you play you never really pay rake but being asked to pay time as you leave after dropping a few grand will tilt even the biggest whales 😂
Not as much winning vs losing players. More so tight players want a rake and loose players want to pay time.
@@iknewiwould no cap 10% is a lot I’ve never played anywhere close to that high. Where i play it’s 10% up to $5 plus $1 drop.
Sec. 47.02. GAMBLING. (a) A person commits an offense if he:
........
(3) plays and bets for money or other thing of value at any game played with cards, dice, balls, or any other gambling device.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the actor engaged in gambling in a private place;
(2) no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings;"
No person including all including owners; clubs in clear violation
@@sr4087 Clubs that charge time are not in clear violation, because they are not benefiting from the gambling event.
@@snex000Some clubs...but if your "club" is literally just a room with 10 poker tables and maybe a single bar...it's pretty clear what people are paying to be there for.
You are correct that it's unclear, but if the majority of patrons are sitting at poker tables...it's very clear that you are benefiting from the gambling. They're there to gamble.
Any argument to the contrary falls apart if that can be displayed in court. It's a very, very sketchy game they're playing with the wording of the law
@@brendonw456 It's entirely irrelevant whether 5% or 100% of your private club's activity is gambling. Economic benefit from the gambling means you receive a DIRECT amount of the gambles. Which, you don't. You are talking out of your ass.
How to spend 30 minutes talking about a hand that takes 5 minutes to dissect. The villain is a fish, plain and simple. What else do we have to say? Youre in a good game. Congrats, get that chedda
People from Texas generally don't look at all like that preview picture BTW, at least not in Dallas. They don't look anywhere near that dumb, although most of them are. I can say that confidently, having played home games here since 2005.
i have a buddy lives in austin, looks exactly like that, minus the hat. he's not dumb though. oh, and he's cuban
@@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511 Thank you for proving my point. Cubans are certainly much smarter than Texans! Cuba is a difficult place to survive that requires great cunning and that ability is passed down through the genes.
weak play from both players and bart somewhere in the middle trying to explain this and that...funny hand
Caller is stupid... they give back more. Ya I wonder why😂
Replying to "charging rake as a marketing decision," the $1/2-1/3 player pool will not, by and large, pay a time rake because they have a (probably incorrect) skewed perception that time rake is taking more money out of their pocket, they might pay for a down then go bust, etc. The players just don't want it.
This caller is promoting dangerous ideas.
The whole Texas card room industry is in violation of the spirit of Texas law. Players should create clubs that are truly non-profit.
As for the membership model.... That is just an attempt to sidestep the clear intent of the law. This idea that we must have for profit card rooms in order to play poker seems deeply flawed.
Texas poker operates under a "gray area", taking advantage of styling themselves as "private clubs". Taking a rake explodes that legal strategy. A private club exists for the "mutual" benefit of members. Rake violates that "mutual" benefit construct. If we actually had an Attorney General with integrity, he would have issues an advisory opinion 4-5 years ago, blowing up poker in Texas.
you... you think acting with integrity means getting rid of texas poker? what the hell kind of world do you want to live in?
@Mekhami The Texas AG should follow the laws and statutes (understanding the legislative intent). These clubs are taking advantage of an UNINTENDED loophole. Local DAs can read the statutes loosely or strictly, and this has led to some counties in Texas being more hospitable (Travis, Bexar, Harris), while others (notably Dallas County) have been less ambivalent to enforcing Texas Penal Sec. 47.02. Why, oh why a statewide law enforcement officer would delay issuing a clarification is beyond my compression. 😉🤑😉🤑😉🤑😉🤑😉🤑😉🤑😉🤑😉🤑😉
@@EricA-xd9fn you don't know shit about the law, clearly. keep running your mouth.
There's nothing gray about it. Gambling in private clubs is legal. The club owner cannot economically benefit from any gambling that goes on - and they don't with a time charge. Just read the law.
logical Perspective and Texas, LoL
Well he is Canadian lol
Texas games are next level soft.