HOW MUCH POLY OR EPOXY RESIN DOES YOUR FIBERGLASS LAYUP NEED?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Both fiberglass samples were on 1 SqFt of 1708 fiberglass (12" X 12"). Don't mix up too much and waste material!
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I don't know whether it was because I hadn't had my coffee yet or what but that goofy music was skull splitting lol
My skull is still intact..
I blew thru 4 gallons of resin yesterday on 3 layups on the deck of the 17' skiff @ 1%. The previous video was playing continuously in my mind! As the 5 gal pail was getting low!
The best part is every single product is different in how much you need haha. Eyeballing it comes from experience. However halfway through my first boat build I was able to hone the art of the eyeball. It doesnt take much experience which is good. I owe a lot to you andy, I've watched every single video. Some multiple times.
Completely agree. I'm on my 6th boat now and I've helped two of my mates on another 2 projects so 8 in total taken back to bare GRP. I'm a coachbuilder mainly custom spray painter now and realised a long time ago the mathematical amount required for the cloth type/size etc is way way off. It was probably half way through my first boat I dialled my epoxy game in so my cup was near as good empty by the time I'd finished the area. What I would do is prepare other smaller areas needing fixing and any leftover epoxy I would use it to finish them off. When i say small i mean stuff like screw holes or barrier coating smaller repairs. It suited me brilliant because It mean I could walk away from the final stages of the lesser important fixes and just come back to them with the leftovers I had from the important stuff. There is nothing worse than having to mix more up right at the end of fix area because you ran dry, it's far far better scenario to have too much and have a quick cry while you watch £10 of epoxy cure in a cup.
How do you determine how many layers you put down what cloth to use and how many layers at a time
Now how about a video on how much glass should one use
Great tips and points! This is always important to avoid too much waste!
Andy, c'mon brother, we missed ya last week, and now you drop a cliff hanger on us. You and Mads keep me going on my 1968 Hatteras 34!
I was under the impression that it takes about equal weight of epoxy to fiberglass. So 1708 is 25 ounces of fiberglass (per square yard). So 1 square foot would be 25/9 = 2.7777 ounces. That's just about what you found in your tests. So thanks for confirming. Might want to mix up just a little extra :)
But an ounce is not an ounce
@@fishhuntadventure thats correct. Fluid ounce is not the same as an ounce weight, and the measured amount in the video is fluid ounces from the measureing cup.
@@fishhuntadventure fair how about this one once of glass will absorb one fluid once or resin
@@fishhuntadventure true but you can correct if you know the density of the mixed resin. For epoxy resins this is usually listed in the technical data sheet TDS. Usually it is like 0.8 oz weight per oz volume.
My supplier recommended 3.2 Oz epoxy resin per s.f. of 1708 and (IIRC?) 1.5 OZ. CS mat. This resulted in a 1/16" per layer thickness at a "just right" resin density. Getting the 1708 to infuse resin is a challenge, most times rectified by pre-wetting the glass.
I greatly appreciate this video. Thank you! I've never stopped to figure this out. I just mix small batches and when I run out mix some more.
Still groovin’ on the music. Catching a bit of a klezmer vibe. Makes me happy!😎
I have found that if you finish with a roller and a squegee..... you'll need less resin.Also fewer bubbles,. and a better resin to fiber ratio.
One of the most helpful videos you have done lately. I'm retiring in a couple of months.
I'm weighing the idea of building a pocket cruiser and gathering information on costs etc. Thank you your information should save me around $2000 on costs of polyester resin. Making the build a more viable option.
Would love to see a post on how to make tight shapes, corners including the best matt and techniques to use. Love the content
Correct me if I'm wrong please. There is an ingredient in the glass, especially CFM that helps hold the fibers together so that it keeps it's shape. The poly breaks this down so to make the glass plyable & moldable and the epoxy does not. That might help explain why is saturates the glass better. If I'm working a large area I do as you do and mix a number of smaller batches instead a large one..... we all know how that works out.
Check some of Andy's other videos. He talks clearly about the chopped strand matt and epoxy myth. It's not a factor with 1708 because the small amount of chopped glass is sewn into the fabric along with the two other layers. Plain glass cloth doesn't stay together because of binders, but because it's woven. Unidirectional (roving), where more than 90% of the fibers run in one direction, are held together with cross threads that are normally removed before the layup cures.
I usually 'guestimate' and either a) don't mix enough or b) mix too much and have waste. Think I'm gonna try your way next time. Thanks for the tip.
Good job some of us trying to diy a repair project can't afford to waste poly or its upscale brother epoxy resin
I'd like to go back 3 years and see more videos on DYI. I built a squaredrop camper and depended on your channel to know what to do. I was building a camper, not a boat.
Thanks for sharing and I love that little hardener dispenser you used. Very cool for small batches. Thanks for sharing!
It would be interesting to know the final thickness of each sample. I suspect the Epoxy sample ends up thicker.
I saw this earlier when you posted the lone video. Not sure why it didn't get as much attention it deserved. I am looking forward to seeing what changes are coming! Hope you have a great week!
I didn't even see a short from you and I am subbed
Thank you Andy, I'm gonna try this next time I glass and see how the 2oz theory works.
Always weigh resin and lamament. A ratio of 1/2 part resin to 1 part natural glass and 1 part resin to 1 part synthetic material (Kevlar, polyester, nylon) plus an extra amount of 20% to 40 % depending on labor, components, complexity of the part is what worked when vacuum bagging. Most hand layups struggle to get a 1 to1 ratio.
Excess resin results in a part or repair that will lead to early failure.
I have a deck on my house to do this spring. I'll definitely go back to the poly. The epoxy does not really absorb
Now do it in square METERS please 🙏
But this is only for the tissue. When you laminate, depending of the support, the support will absorb some resin, no? So one should put more to compensate that absorption?
Great video and this is a good length of time
Thank u so much finally answers my question
There is the way the matting is built that impacts, some have components that work better with poly and not well at all with epoxy.
Andy, I may not have hit the thumbs up on that short, but because I know next to nothing about glass, and abhor wasted materials, that’s precisely the kind of content that appeals to me. I’ve been trying to get better about hitting the thumbs-up button, but it’s difficult when I’m hanging on every word and making notes.
If able, could you please follow this up with a short or a video showing the wet-out rates for CSM, as well?
Thanks!
THANKS!! THIS HELPS :)
Fibreglass can be fone in all environments......!
But you must yry your best to be very close to what btand and product u use....!
Love or hate the itch do it right or dont do it at all.!
Only place for shorts is in the summer at a beach bar with your favurite short in you hand ;)
Thank you!
When using epoxy, I've always gone by the 1:1 rule - 18oz of epoxy to wet out 1 sq yd of 18 oz glass, 6 oz to wet 1 sq yd of 6 oz material. That's pretty much what this video shows.
Youl never get it perfect unless you eyeball it mate. Sure, knowing roughly what's needed is helpfull but I always mix up at least another 1/4 on what mathematically it needs and even at that I've found myself scrapping the cup for the last little bit coverage. I've also seen a panel that was 80 gritted only had smaller pit holes but lots of them and it swallowed a lot of epoxy even after a fairly thick wet coat prior to application. If you are new to it I'd personally mix up another half on top of recommended coz I guarantee you will end up having to remove a load of push out and probably not be mixing the pot regularly so a fair bit will become stringy and unusable. See every problem I've seen new guys getting, I had the same.
I liked the info so thanks for that. My question is this: where did you find that music? That was a perfect fit for the wetting section of the video. I got a little chuckle from it.🤣
Andy nice vid now here is a idea. What about multiple layers of glass is it still a good rule to follow.
the next layer will use slightly less if you layer onto the wet and roll with metal roller it should squeeze out about 1 oz so wet next layer with only a 2oz mix 3rd layer would be back to around 3 oz next layer again you would reduce ,glass is what gives the strength best roll out excess epoxy as it has no strength anyways
What’s the yellow and black tool you used to cut the mat.
I did my 1st layer of 1708/epoxy on my 1st composite project. I think I over saturated it. Can I use the epoxy dried brush (uncleaned brush) to apply the epoxy or an old plastic card to squeegee the 2nd layer before applying it to my 1st project ?
This was great
Hey Andy, I'm making a small boat where I need to fibreglass 7 metres squared of area. It will be in the tough oceans and must must be waterproof. Do you have recommendations of the type of fibre glass and epoxy needed and how many layers? A salesman told me ten layers and tried selling me 55 gallons of epoxy but I was skeptical
Excellent 👍😊
your content and info is well priceless to the DIYer like my self. I have a question on 1708 that you may have covered before .... if chop mat is more cosmetic and woven for strength should you lay it woven side to surface or the other way round. From my understanding chop mat is sand able and woven is weakened if you sand and damage the woven mat in the resin . please correct me if i am wrong.
What about vinyl ester
I never saw a "short" from you. I've seen several from another site I've subscribed to but none from your site. I think they are good. Not sure it's worth your, or the posters, time though.
Wanna make a new fiberglass engine cover for my lobster boat. What glass type would you recommend for a hard strong structure that handles a good amount of weight?
One question i would like to ask someone who knows. when locking att TH-camrs with old sailing boats they tend to have problems with structural wood rotting in there GRP boats.
So the question Has manufacturers stopped using wood as structural components or is it still normal ?? or the answer is not that simple ?
Andy, So what is better to saturate the glass or just enough to thoroughly wet out?
On a side note, I have a boat where someone has gloss painted a part of the transom inside the boat... I want to add a splash well can I glass over the gloss paint or will it involve stripping right back to glass underneath the original gelcoat and gloss?
You can add a bit of acetone to epoxy to reduce the viscosity a bit. You can also use a blow dryer to warm it a bit for the same effect. Burt Rutan taught the blow dryer method in the 1980s when wetting out heavy glass roving for airplane wing spar caps (3" wide e-glass roving is more than twice the density of 1708 cloth).
There's really no difference between 'coating' and 'absorbing' because neither epoxy nor polyester resin goes 'into' the glass fibers. You might want to weigh 2 ounces (volume) of each, and/or weigh the finished laminates and see if one is heavier than the other... Recycling a short? gah I'd rather watch 2 minutes of a pine tree swaying in the breeze - no music, thanks...
For a first coat on timber, you should NOT add acetone (or any other solvent) to your epoxy. Studies done by the US Forest Products Laboratory have proven that epoxy formulations using solvents are far less effective at excluding moisture.
Don't add acetone. West systems and other reputable companies will tell you the same. Heating up the resin with a heating pad or heat lamp is fine. But adding thinner just reduces the amount of resin in the area.
Never add acetone to epoxy. I know lots of well-respected people do it. All the manufacturers recommend against it. I trust the manufacturers. West systems epoxy contains benzyl alcohol already. So it is already thinned. Other un-thinned epoxies may tolerate addition of benzyl alcohol as a thinner. But the safest thing is to buy a low viscosity epoxy when needed.
Great to know, even though iam more of a eyeball it kinda guy 🤣 I tend to wing it and guess and tbh so far been pretty lucky lol. Not to much waist at least.
Hey my friend, I’m finally getting around to resurfacing my barracuda Hydrocycle, it’s got old stained and spider cracked 1969 gel coat. I almost got it all sanded down to a clean surface. I had to sand out a couple warped spots into small holes that now need to be covered too. I want to put a layer of cloth over the entire boat, then sand and paint, but I don’t know which product to use for resin. Can you recommend a product that won’t break the bank, but still work for what I need and be good for years to come? There’s not a ton of structural strength needed, just over the small holes I sanded… It’s a jet ski sized boat, it’s like a jet ski with a 35hp outboard on it…there is a video of it on my channel if you wanna see it.
That’s actually a very good video. When I’m trying to find information about something or how to do a project. I really want the short version!
So many TH-camrs want to fill the video with a bunch of superfluous BS. Just get to the point so we can get back to work.
1-1.5 x glass weight
You buy the 'Cook Book'... (Cook Composites and Polymers)... seriously!
Easy way to do it is simply weigh your glass, you want a 50/50 of glass to resin ideally. So if your glass weighs 1 kilo, 1 kilo of resin will get you close, by the time you add your hardener that will give you some extra for loss.
Even easier yet, your 1708 glas, that number is how many grams per sq meter it weighs, so if your laying up 1 layer of 1m sq of 1708 you need 1708g of resin. The math can be adjusted If you want a resin heavy layup. I usually add 10% for consumable use(peel ply, roller soak, stuck to the cup walls etc) that's how we do it working on our wind turbine blades.
That's how Russ on Life on the hulls does it also.
Andy! when you use brushes to apply the resin, what! do you do with the brush upon completion. Do you have a method for cleaning and reuse or are the disposed of? That would be a lot of brushes. Have a great day to your and your family. The productions are wonderful. Thank you.
Just pour some acetone in a bucket with a lid, brush submerged.
It will keep brush supple until next time. Consider contamination though. Brushes will collect dust or debris from the layup.
Best to use a new brush on finishing etc.
Just pour some acetone in a bucket with a lid, brush submerged.
It will keep brush supple until next time. Consider contamination though. Brushes will collect dust or debris from the layup.
Best to use a new brush on finishing etc.
Andy can correct me if I’m wrong but I’m 99% sure he uses inexpensive chip brushes to wet out and tosses them after each use. I do the same based on this, buying them in bulk. I’m using epoxy.
What resin is stronger? Or has flexibility, over cracking on impact
Epoxy resin is a lot stronger and resistant than polyester resin.
Just checking to see how those air filters worked. You do any sanding on the glass yet?
They are doing extremely well!! Very happy that I went with them, would absolutely do it again :-)
I'm trying to replace the core on a small area on my boat. Temperature during the day around 55F then drops to 45F overnight. Can I do my epoxy work during the day? or the low temperature during the night is not ideal for curing? Thank you
If possible using a heat lamp or blanket over the work area would help a lot. Even 55 is on the low side for curing epoxy properly. Black plastic in the sun can also help during the day. There are all sorts of ways to jury rig a small amount of localized heating.
@@mckenziekeith7434Thank you. Temp start rising now and I should be okay. Cheers!
How about when laying onto thirsty dry plywood surface?
On plywood I normally apply a first thin coat of epoxy using just a squegee and use a brush only for the edges. Then I re-coat as needed after it hardens. This prevents unnecessary build-up of epoxy.
I tend to use dirty acetone from bucket for cleaning the brushes resin/acetone mixture will penetrate the wood acetone will evaporate after acting as a carrier for the resin. Seals wood nicely ready for a lay up later on. Hope it helps.
I agree shorts are weird
Ok, let me make this brief, entire video: 2oz/sf of polyester resin or 3oz/sf of epoxy resin to wet out 1sf of 1708 fiberglass.
I guess when you are doing small, limited jobs I would like to limit waste but most of what I do is usually just have other things to do already prepped for extras and just try not to be short.
2 questions...
Could you calculate volume? I intend to vacuum-bag a couple of hatches. Would 3'x4'x 3/8" not give me a reasonable volume of resin.
Is there chop-strand matt on the back of that second test cloth? You normally wouldn't use CSM with epoxy would you??
Brent - FWIW, Andy measured volume, not weight. 1708 cloth has a small amount of chopped strand matt on one surface. It's fine with epoxy because 1708 is sewn together, not bound together with polyester. I think Andy has shown in previous videos that regular CSM is fine with epoxy as well. The industry's caught up a bit in the last couple of decades, but the old wives tales take much longer to die. ;)
@@RechargeableLithium - The "old wives" tales are correct. There are 2 kinds of CSM (there used to be just one). The regular (old) type, that has a binder holding the fibres together, which dissolves in polyester, but not in epoxy (and, in fact, that epoxy does not 'stick' to properly), and a newer type of CSM that has no binder, but instead is held together with light stitching, and which can be used with epoxy. Both types are readily available, so it's still important to make sure which one you are getting, if working with epoxy.
music insane couldn't finish
The reason you like polyester so much is you're addicted to the smell ( - :
ok. but what about vacuum infusion..?)
vacuum infusion uses less resin. Maybe about 40 % resin to fiber ratio.
@@mckenziekeith7434 is correct. We run a 40% resin to glass ratio on all of our infused parts. Measure out the dry material and calculate the resin based on the material weight. When open molding, the resin - glass ratio will be closer to 50-60% resin.
for us modern science ppl who dosnt mesure in bananas, for the poly one, 2oz for 1 sqft = 0,65l per sqm. Epoxy one you just divide by 3 and add that to 0,65l, alright i do it gosh, 0,8666 give or take per sqm
I agree I have found the shorts (any shorts) somewhat lacking so don't watch them now.
These space-filler videos are getting old...starting to feel like I've outgrown this channel.
I don't like the shorts, they never show up in my notifications so I miss them if I don't go into each channel's video list. Some do show up in suggestions but that's unreliable.
i watched that video , only it was in that stupid ass fake smartphone mode player that literally go to a random video every time you even touch scrolling on the site
who know if it even counts views corectly
there are online calculators for that. look up „R und G Faserverbundwerkstoffe“