In some sort of effort to stem it, I accidently said Primeval Titan was a meh card in Standard and Modern formats but busted in Commander enough to get banned. The card I was talking about is Sylvan Primordial. I promise you I don't think Prime time is bad. Please.
Sorry if my comment was out of line poking fun at this. I was more having a giggle at amulet titan players than you, but I understand that a lot of people pointing it out can be annoying.
I assumed that was the card you meant to say, if only because I remember when that card came out and how our commander group banned it before the CRC did
Ha! Didnt see that one comming, love it 😁👍 currently gathering cards to build a commander cube around the set, and I was kinda debating myself about including ach Hans, run... now i've decided, its Going in!
Thank you all for allways providing as much of the relevant information as you do on TapTapConcede. Somehow details like every pick is 2 cards and packs have 20 cards escape me untill I've heard and/or read it on at least three different occasions.
I think the most common degenerate thing to do with jewelled lotus is to go land, sol ring, lotus, monocolour five drop commander. Which could be a problem because the last thing Skithiryx needs is a two card combo to get him out turn 1.
My prediction for the red court is "on your upkeep, exile the top card of your library you may play it this turn. If you are the monarch, you may play it without paying its mana cost."
While I'm in pretty much the same spot as you guys on Lotus, I also want to add that it just doesn't seem like a *fun* card. There will be times where it's bad to mediocre, but the times where it's good will often result in quick onesided games.
My problem with Jeweled Lotus isn't that it's busted, but that it's gonna massively increase the amount of non-games where one player having an explosive start just settles the game right away. That's not exclusive to the Lotus, it was already a thing with some mana crypt starts etc, but more ways to make it happen isn't healthy imo
Really looking forward to this draft! My friends and I got boosters for 4 drafts (unless someone decides to just crack'em because they can't wait lol). I hope I get to draft elves once at least :D 37:09 I generally agree with the assessment of the Lotus but comparing it to OG duals is just pretty weird, the difference between a shockland and an OG dual is very minor compared to what the lotus does. OG duals are a minor power-up overall while including fast mana is a pretty big deal in terms of power. What's scary is stuff like Urza. You can easily drop Urza with this, play a random 0 drop artifact and cast a Winter Orb or shit like that. Even Marwyn can theoretically make infinite mana on T2 with this and even if you don't, you could still have an absurd glimpse of nature turn extremely early in the game that leads to you winning the game. 40:55 Yeah but at the point my opponents can do anything they already lost the game on t1/t2 unless they have a force of will so what do I care about all of them playing against me. Also you can just mulligan aggressively with the London Mulligan, I feel like you are not accounting for that in your evaluation, mulligans work not only to find an appropriate land/spell mix but also to find combo pieces. Edit.: Deleted the part about the Sol Ring, apparently it's only in the precons.
@@irreleverent I've seen it now, I think it's a good decision for the health of the draft, I didn't pay attention to the collector number when I saw the leaks since they all were alternate versions so you can't derive anything from it anyways.
Nelson, I give you Mountain, Crypt, Sol ring, Lotus, Godo, Find Helm of the Host, Magnetic Theft, . Do you have any way to stop me? Oh wait you haven't even had a turn yet hahahahaha
I mostly agree about the Lotus, and while sharuum isn't going to want it, the other places it will really shine are the lower commander cmc artifact decks like emry or urza.
The reason you Cascade 4 times with Apex Devastator is so after all the Cadcading if you got only creatures you would have 5 creatures, one for each of the heads.
I genuinely don't think jeweled lotus is a must run in most decks. I think that the only decks that should run it are decks that are cashing in on artifact synergies, and specifically looping artifacts, like Teshar or Jhoria. Even CEDH decks probably should not run this unless they can still derive value from the Lotus with their commander in play. The potential downside of it actually does nothing if your commander is in play is huge.
i think Cedh decks will run this if they arent running a 4 color commander or the cheap cmc partners like tymna and thrasios, like jeweled lotus means t1 najeela along with something else potentially
So what we are doing for our draft at my house we are pack 1 pick 1 and then after passing you pick 2 until the pack is empty. We all put money in for the box so we are trying to keep it fair for each of us since we are keeping what we draft. Just in case someone pulls 2 expensive cards they have to pass one of them
@@micah3030 I don't really care. Similar to Fierce Guardianship, I object to its existence and I will not use it. If somebody like you wants to buy any I encounter during my drafts, fine.
@@jeffreyjohnson3687 yeah I don’t like that it exists either but I don’t think that it’s game breaking. I just played a game where I got turn one gitrog monster off of the new lotus, and sure I was ahead for the first couple of turns but I stumbled on draws a little and someone had a removal spell and I ended up not even coming in second.
Assuming that the price point doesn't shoot up in some evil twist, I feel like Commander Legends is something I'd be able to draft twice in a weekend (in a 4 player pod), and then I'd want to pick up another box to repeat the process. Looking forward to finding out if it's true.
What my wife and I plan to do up here in Kelowna since we can't really draft with 8 people and don't want to be COVIDIOTS We're going to take 1/2 of the box and do sealed. then for the other half I want to do Rochester draft or some other draft syle format we can make work among the two of us.
I don't think 'good guy' is really an apt description for Roghrakh. He rebels against his father who is waging war against Kobolds. Roghrakh believes they should only wage war against non-kobolds.
I would say that legacy and modern heavily played prime time is far from a bulk rare outside of commander lol Sorry that's pretty nitpicky you got the point across
Urza player turn 1: play island, play jeweled lotus, cast urza, cast mana crypt, tap friend to cast sol ring, cast isochron scepter imprinting dramatic reversal, win Other players: 🤯
Wait pardon? Did Ben say Prime Time was a bulk rare in constructed? It's played a reasonable amount in legacy, is a staple of canlander, staple in modern. It's banned in commander because the ban list is silly. Sol ring and mana crypt are legal, primetime is not a powerlevel ban in any sense of the term.
The reason i've heard about prime titan ban in commander was that it was format warping. All decks had to be green to Play it, or at last run clone effects to steal the effect cause the advantage was just too big. But the way the format is now days Think it wouldn't be as format warping anymore...
mumbles *I thought they weren't printing any 2 color partner cards in this set; ... checks the spoiler list. OH, hi c16 partners in 2 color at /Mythic/.
I am very worried about this. Prismatic Piper solves a real problem... very poorly. There are 2 main worries I have here - (1) getting enough cards in your color identity, and (2) being happy with your Commander(s). There are A LOT of "filler" partner commanders here, so I'm very worried. You're going to open a lot of packs where you see 2 (U) Partners and they'll be bad. Q: How many Prismatic Pipers can you take? If they're like Basic Lands, can I run 20 of them as (bad) filler? I mean, I'll be super unhappy about this, but if it's a basic... fine. If you just have to ask your opponents to give you their last pick... I don't think that's gonna work.
@@williamsimkulet7832 There’s one in every six packs or so in place of a common, iirc. There should be plenty. It’s not a good card, I’d rather take basically any on colour card with an effect over it, you should never not be able to grab one.
@@jamestrevelyan1268 Yeah, it's terrible. But (1) there won't be on color cards, and (2) if it's not REALLY a basic, you can cut the table from 'em. Seriously, the set is poorly designed, and if your opponent just can't play the color they've been drafting - they lose. I don't know what prizes will be like for a CL Draft (I'm hoping everyone gets a pack for playing, and the winner might get an FNM promo pack or something); but if there are real stakes, cutting an opponent from being able to play 30% of their playables is a good start, and hording Prismatic Pipers might allow for this.
In some sort of effort to stem it, I accidently said Primeval Titan was a meh card in Standard and Modern formats but busted in Commander enough to get banned. The card I was talking about is Sylvan Primordial. I promise you I don't think Prime time is bad. Please.
oh boy time to quote ben as having said primeval titan is bad outside of commander
Sorry if my comment was out of line poking fun at this. I was more having a giggle at amulet titan players than you, but I understand that a lot of people pointing it out can be annoying.
I assumed that was the card you meant to say, if only because I remember when that card came out and how our commander group banned it before the CRC did
Regarding Apex Devastator's four cascades, I read the fifth head as being the creature itself
came to comments to say this.
Apex Devestator cascades 4 times because there are 5 spells total (it and the 4 cascades) and 5 heads.
Thanks, came here to say this. Seemed pretty straightforward to me... #shrug
I think the best thing about Hans is the fact that unless every graveyard is empty, Lhurgoyf won't die to fighting him...
If you also control Saffi, you can sacrifice her to save Hans from dying to a bigger Ghoyf, even.
Ach! Hans, run it’s cascade cascade cascade cascade!
Ha! Didnt see that one comming, love it 😁👍 currently gathering cards to build a commander cube around the set, and I was kinda debating myself about including ach Hans, run... now i've decided, its Going in!
Jordynne did a great job on this, especially with the timing on those card images.
Thank you all for allways providing as much of the relevant information as you do on TapTapConcede. Somehow details like every pick is 2 cards and packs have 20 cards escape me untill I've heard and/or read it on at least three different occasions.
I think the most common degenerate thing to do with jewelled lotus is to go land, sol ring, lotus, monocolour five drop commander. Which could be a problem because the last thing Skithiryx needs is a two card combo to get him out turn 1.
Re: Apex Devastator having 5 heads and 4 cascades, you are paying for the first head, then cascading for each additional head.
My prediction for the red court is "on your upkeep, exile the top card of your library you may play it this turn. If you are the monarch, you may play it without paying its mana cost."
I choose to believe Saffi lived on in Dominaria stranded in the future like a few other creatures were said to have been.
31:00 I was about to say You'll find that the red court is quite *shocking* but then Nelson pretty much nailed except off by one.
I'm hyped to watch PPR tomorrow, and even more excited to play Sealed (and, eventually, Draft) with this set!!
I can’t wait to draft this set! I’ll just have to settle for engaging with this content in the meantime
While I'm in pretty much the same spot as you guys on Lotus, I also want to add that it just doesn't seem like a *fun* card.
There will be times where it's bad to mediocre, but the times where it's good will often result in quick onesided games.
My problem with Jeweled Lotus isn't that it's busted, but that it's gonna massively increase the amount of non-games where one player having an explosive start just settles the game right away. That's not exclusive to the Lotus, it was already a thing with some mana crypt starts etc, but more ways to make it happen isn't healthy imo
Nelson talking about playing more than 26 lands in a 60 card deck makes me instinctively uncomfortable.
Really looking forward to this draft!
My friends and I got boosters for 4 drafts (unless someone decides to just crack'em because they can't wait lol). I hope I get to draft elves once at least :D
37:09 I generally agree with the assessment of the Lotus but comparing it to OG duals is just pretty weird, the difference between a shockland and an OG dual is very minor compared to what the lotus does. OG duals are a minor power-up overall while including fast mana is a pretty big deal in terms of power.
What's scary is stuff like Urza. You can easily drop Urza with this, play a random 0 drop artifact and cast a Winter Orb or shit like that. Even Marwyn can theoretically make infinite mana on T2 with this and even if you don't, you could still have an absurd glimpse of nature turn extremely early in the game that leads to you winning the game.
40:55 Yeah but at the point my opponents can do anything they already lost the game on t1/t2 unless they have a force of will so what do I care about all of them playing against me.
Also you can just mulligan aggressively with the London Mulligan, I feel like you are not accounting for that in your evaluation, mulligans work not only to find an appropriate land/spell mix but also to find combo pieces.
Edit.: Deleted the part about the Sol Ring, apparently it's only in the precons.
Sol ring isn't an uncommon in this set. It's only in the precons and the collector packs.
@@irreleverent I've seen it now, I think it's a good decision for the health of the draft, I didn't pay attention to the collector number when I saw the leaks since they all were alternate versions so you can't derive anything from it anyways.
For the Hans story, card: "Ach, Hans run" (silverborder card)
The real Demonic Pact commander is the Mardu "Arcanum Weaver" who Recurring Nightmares your enchantments.
Nelson, I give you
Mountain, Crypt, Sol ring, Lotus, Godo, Find Helm of the Host, Magnetic Theft, . Do you have any way to stop me? Oh wait you haven't even had a turn yet hahahahaha
I mostly agree about the Lotus, and while sharuum isn't going to want it, the other places it will really shine are the lower commander cmc artifact decks like emry or urza.
Cyclonic rift can only be cast on the casters turn now. Thank you Obeka.
The reason you Cascade 4 times with Apex Devastator is so after all the Cadcading if you got only creatures you would have 5 creatures, one for each of the heads.
Set looks sick so far
So technically able in Commander draft to cascade into 4 Apex Decastators off casting one. (and then all judges within 3 miles of you, heads explode)
I genuinely don't think jeweled lotus is a must run in most decks. I think that the only decks that should run it are decks that are cashing in on artifact synergies, and specifically looping artifacts, like Teshar or Jhoria. Even CEDH decks probably should not run this unless they can still derive value from the Lotus with their commander in play. The potential downside of it actually does nothing if your commander is in play is huge.
i think Cedh decks will run this if they arent running a 4 color commander or the cheap cmc partners like tymna and thrasios, like jeweled lotus means t1 najeela along with something else potentially
I am 100% going to try it in ruric thar cedh deck
There are cEDH decks that basically go Commander into win. Those definitely play it. Godo is the most obvious.
That Maga thing is clever. I love salvaging station!
But yeah I think just casting high impact 4 mana commanders on turn 1 is pretty strong.
Putting in my effort to please the algorithm
Looking forward to buying a box and hearing the Highlander crews thoughts on these cards for highlander purposes
So what we are doing for our draft at my house we are pack 1 pick 1 and then after passing you pick 2 until the pack is empty. We all put money in for the box so we are trying to keep it fair for each of us since we are keeping what we draft. Just in case someone pulls 2 expensive cards they have to pass one of them
Oops, Terramorphic Expanse wasn't known yet.
All the decks that might want the lotus... sound miserable for everybody involved. If I open one, it is trade fodder.
I’ve been playing with it (~20 games) and it’s actually been fine. Very good but not game breaking.
@@micah3030 I don't really care. Similar to Fierce Guardianship, I object to its existence and I will not use it. If somebody like you wants to buy any I encounter during my drafts, fine.
@@jeffreyjohnson3687 yeah I don’t like that it exists either but I don’t think that it’s game breaking. I just played a game where I got turn one gitrog monster off of the new lotus, and sure I was ahead for the first couple of turns but I stumbled on draws a little and someone had a removal spell and I ended up not even coming in second.
What’s wrong? You seem to care since it’s something you brought up.
Same I wont play this card no matter how good it is
Assuming that the price point doesn't shoot up in some evil twist, I feel like Commander Legends is something I'd be able to draft twice in a weekend (in a 4 player pod), and then I'd want to pick up another box to repeat the process.
Looking forward to finding out if it's true.
Island, Jewled Lotus, Jhoira Weatherlight Captain... Go
Any fetch land into Swamp, Fatal Push go.
You can finally reanimate Phage without losing the game with Obeka
As much as I'm happy with this podcast, I am also sad because I'm still waiting for nicknames... :(
Please feel free to reuse old button slogans! There are many I've missed out on.
Rograak + Akroma is also a funny commander pair
So.. since you've mentioned nicknames and commander legends.. when can we throw our ideas at you? :)
Im sad obeka threaten doesnt seem to work
37:32 probably not scariest but grand arbiter augustin t1 seems very not fun
well, it's fun for the person doing it
What my wife and I plan to do up here in Kelowna since we can't really draft with 8 people and don't want to be COVIDIOTS
We're going to take 1/2 of the box and do sealed.
then for the other half I want to do Rochester draft or some other draft syle format we can make work among the two of us.
I don't think 'good guy' is really an apt description for Roghrakh. He rebels against his father who is waging war against Kobolds. Roghrakh believes they should only wage war against non-kobolds.
i mean jeweled lotus into marwyn the nurturer into another one drop mana dork means gigantasaurus turn 2
I would say that legacy and modern heavily played prime time is far from a bulk rare outside of commander lol
Sorry that's pretty nitpicky you got the point across
Urza player turn 1: play island, play jeweled lotus, cast urza, cast mana crypt, tap friend to cast sol ring, cast isochron scepter imprinting dramatic reversal, win
Other players: 🤯
Engage for the folks
Rograkh > Ashnod's Altar > Shock > Fury Storm
or replace step 3 and 4 with Impact Tremors.... I meant Grapeshot
Wait pardon? Did Ben say Prime Time was a bulk rare in constructed? It's played a reasonable amount in legacy, is a staple of canlander, staple in modern. It's banned in commander because the ban list is silly. Sol ring and mana crypt are legal, primetime is not a powerlevel ban in any sense of the term.
The reason i've heard about prime titan ban in commander was that it was format warping. All decks had to be green to Play it, or at last run clone effects to steal the effect cause the advantage was just too big. But the way the format is now days Think it wouldn't be as format warping anymore...
Sorry, was definitely talking about Sylvan Primordial. All these big green homies have similar names.
Drafting commander just seems weird. I think green will be strong without constructed decks and in draft.
mumbles *I thought they weren't printing any 2 color partner cards in this set; ... checks the spoiler list. OH, hi c16 partners in 2 color at /Mythic/.
Engagement
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I am very worried about this. Prismatic Piper solves a real problem... very poorly. There are 2 main worries I have here - (1) getting enough cards in your color identity, and (2) being happy with your Commander(s).
There are A LOT of "filler" partner commanders here, so I'm very worried. You're going to open a lot of packs where you see 2 (U) Partners and they'll be bad.
Q: How many Prismatic Pipers can you take? If they're like Basic Lands, can I run 20 of them as (bad) filler? I mean, I'll be super unhappy about this, but if it's a basic... fine. If you just have to ask your opponents to give you their last pick... I don't think that's gonna work.
Pretty sure you can only use them as a basic type card as commander, you can’t use them to fill your deck.
@@jamestrevelyan1268 Well, that's especially poor design. It's such a dick move not to give out like 20 of these in each box.
@@williamsimkulet7832 There’s one in every six packs or so in place of a common, iirc. There should be plenty. It’s not a good card, I’d rather take basically any on colour card with an effect over it, you should never not be able to grab one.
@@jamestrevelyan1268 Yeah, it's terrible. But (1) there won't be on color cards, and (2) if it's not REALLY a basic, you can cut the table from 'em.
Seriously, the set is poorly designed, and if your opponent just can't play the color they've been drafting - they lose.
I don't know what prizes will be like for a CL Draft (I'm hoping everyone gets a pack for playing, and the winner might get an FNM promo pack or something); but if there are real stakes, cutting an opponent from being able to play 30% of their playables is a good start, and hording Prismatic Pipers might allow for this.
@@williamsimkulet7832 I don’t think you get it. Even if you don’t draft a Piper, you can still use one or even two as your commander/s.