"Start Your Engines" increments by 1 once per turn but starts at 1 (your speed can't be 0). If you're able to make your opponent lose life on the turn you play a "Start Your Engines" card you'll increment to 2, so it can be as little as 3 turns before you're at "Max Speed." Hope this helps!
No, it increments once per turn when any opponent loses one or more life during your turn, so no matter what you do it can only increase by once each turn
@@ShutUpDoug The token used to track speed should help clear up any questions, but to summarize: gaining speed can only trigger once per turn, regardless of how many opponents you cause to lose life. :)
Also this might be obvious to other people but i didn't realize for quite a while that you have speed not the card so if you already have max speed from a previous card all your future cards will have their speed ability, so long as you don't lose speed.
I waited through the whole segment before commenting, but the bookmobile's mana can only be used on activating abilities, so unless you can filter it through something else, you can't use it to lightning bolt/cast a one drop. It has a lot of words and is new, so understandable to miss that, I just wanted to comment for other folks watching!
ALSO I want to thank you for how joyous this podcast is! I have a chandra/gruulfriends bias, but I loved the story, have been loving the previews (and especially the comic book-esque art on vehicles, reminds me of the ikoria mutate alt art that I love), and have felt like I haven't seen much of a space where people are talking positively about the set (most people saying they feel like it's UB/unset/too jokey/etc), so seeing other people as excited as me is really awesome! I'm excited to watch the PPR!!
Before listening to this, I just want to say my biggest "irritation" is that we have Hashaton, who has the 2 different "zombie matters" colors of Amonket (Orzhov zombies from Amonkhet and Dimir Zombies due to Scarab God in Hour) which means we could have had a follower in Jund that cares about negative counters (Golgari was heavily the negative counters colors and Scorpion God was Rakdos.) I just want a Jund legend that cares about wither/wither adjacent abilities, dang it.
During the pride event I partnered Faldorn and Prosper and it was sick. I'm shocked Wizards hasn't made this a thing yet since they barely have any self control at this point.
Ketramose is one of the cards I’ve been most excited for in many years 👀 I’ve had a Kaya themed deck based on exile and I finally have a legal commander for it 🙌
7:00 I love you guys, but I have never heard someone say so many wrong things one after the other, consecutively, in a row. You cannot "save the mana" because it'll go away at end of phase, and you can't Lightning Bolt or Ragavan with it because it can't be used on spells
Also it isn't a creature unless it is crewed, so it isn't really an infinite flicker then fireball with its ability kind of creature since all activated ability flickers are either creature only or they have it return eot, which doesn't do anything.
@@plundypops Not quite right, Abuelo actually states "creature or artifact" but the cost is 1WU, so it still won't work unless you have unlimited mana filtering. However, there are several ways around this, so the general idea of looping for three to generate enough mana to kill with the ability does work, they just provided some bad examples of it. The easiest way to do this is with Bello or Kolodin, Triumph Caster, but there are other ways (Make 2 power of tokens on Vehicle non-token artifact etb, flickering Felidar Guardian to flicker the Boommobile, etc)
@@JovialRoger That is why I also put "or comes back eot" which Abuelo does. So even if you have some way to filter it it won't do much for you since it will come back on your end step and you can't infinite it. The infinite combos with Felidar require you to flicker the thing that makes infinite felidars to win the game, or else the loop doesn't work... You just flicker felidar to flicker this once in that case.
@@plundypops You are right that I missed that about Abuelo, however you don't need infinite Felidar Guardians, it works with Emiel the Blessed. Boommobile enters, pay 3 to Emiel to blink Guardian, Guardian blinks Boommobile netting 1 mana of any color to be used on abilities, loop as needed.
Hazoret: Play 1 drop, if uncontested play Haz on 2 and you're at 2 speed. If contested, you can play hazrat on three and activate her ability in order to get something through and have speed 2. Seems pretty good
I dont onow if any LRR crew actualy read these comments, and im sure ben has already thought about this for "Sita slime against humanity" but if you have jetfire ingenious scientist out, thats gunna be the biggest value for x ive ever seen. Side note, you could go half slime against humanity, half persistent pertitioner, full jank mode.
Re: Mendicant Core the way I see it: T1: Savannah Lions T2: Mendicant Core - (speed = 1); combat: hit opp with lion (speed = 2) T3: do anything to harm opp (speed = 3) T4: do anything to harm opp (speed = 4)
I agre with Ben re: Mu Yanling, I've been playing Esper Bounce with stormchaser's talent and all that a bit, could see it being in some form of deck like that in the future.
Ben: "I don't really know how Start Your Engines works exactly." Ben a few minutes later: "Here is my nuanced opinion on why I don't like Start Your Engines"
I just watched the new Rhystic Studies video on the word soups and parsing hell of some cards... Combo into the discussion at 45:00 on Elvish Refueler... "Explaining the card, explains the card" Bro, I am just gonna wait for the arena implementation and figure out what to do when, because for sure I will not be able to make heads or tails of this on PR day.
I don't THINK the Oildeep Gearhulk is using Phyrexian oil, just normal oil that makes people kinda leery because "uh remember the last time oil was a thing".
Even if it is Phyrexian Oil, it was rendered inert. Same thing happened with Urborg after Yawgmoth was defeated, and it had the oil hanging around for centuries.
Am I missing something where Ben says you can play ragavan off the red mana from boommobile when the card says “use this mana only to activate abilities”?
Every time I see the WU robots, I can't get over them being so Nier Automata-coded. Wizards got a deal with Square for Final Fantasy and Nier collabs with every single game under the Sun, so maybe we can get a UB with 2B one of these days?
A UB for the entire Taro-verse would be amazing, since that includes fantasy stuff like Dragons and spells from Drakengard as well as the scifi robots and magic/tech hybrids we see in the original Nier.
I think it's important to clarify it only takes 3 turns to hit max speed. You can go from 1 to 2 the turn you start your engines. That's why it's worded so strangely. Now, your opponent can still stymie that pace, but getting max speed a whole turn earlier is a big deal.
Also Sab-Sunen not being an upkeep trigger is so annoying. It's not optional, it should go in the upkeep; but no, you can't trust players to resolve their miracle cards properly so now your Paradox Haze dreams have been dashed.
@@DrFlash-oi6ju It's meant to be worded the exact way as Bounty of the Luxa, which had that wording as the mana generating effect wanted you to be able to keep the mana for stuff in the main phase.
Was my first thought as well, but yeah, the need to crew it makes it tricky. You can still get infinite ETBs by using the navigator to crew the boommobile, flicker the navigator, soulbond, flicker the boommobile, rinse/repeat; but it doesn't net any mana, so needs another piece to do anything. Edit: Immediately realised even this doesn't work, can't flicker the navigator unless it's already soulbonded
@@The808andrew808 Maybe I work night shift? Maybe I live in a different time zone? Maybe time isn't linear to me and I have chosen to flit back into existence for this precise time just to end the day? Anyway, love TTC.
Loot is from the movie Critters. When we finally find Loot’s home, we will see them turn all of them join into a giant ball like Myr Battlesphere and devour everyone.
The issues with Day/Night don't really apply with Speed. Yes it's still active without any cards out that care about it, but unlike Day/Night which can vary many turns later, this only increments in one direction and has a limit before you don't need to track it anymore, like the CIty's Blessing. And for the "cracking a fetchland" thing, that could already come up with Spectacle. Also, it feels more like a Tempo mechanic than Midrange. You want to hit the opponent early and consistently, hitting the apex around turn 4/5, which is how Tempo usually plays out.
Except in all the games in which the start your engines card is removed and one stops tracking it because one doesn't have anything else that cares and then someone shuffles all graveyards back in. Or one forgets triggers (nobody ever does that right?). Or one doesn't announce the increment and people get into an argument about it. Or one's playmat is already overflowing and it's one more piece of real estate that the game requires everyone to represent so that the game state is understandable. Or. Or. Or. Now I will admit not all of these happen frequently. But I will also caution that they all happen and it's big feel bads when mistakes happen especially leading to contention and it's bad game design to include such with decades of game design knowledge in house.
@@markbrierley6367 As I said, you only have to track it so long as you consistently deal damage, which is easy to remember, and once you do that a couple times there's no need to keep track of it any differently than City's Blessing or Tempted By the Ring. This is only kind of an issue in eternal formats, and limiting the design just because of formats that, by their nature, use every card from every release for a game that is 30+ years isn't really good for the future of the game. You can make the same "miss triggers" argument for a ton of mechanics that track things over multiple turns, including ones people seem to have no problem with.
@Mordalon well considering Wizards has been designing mostly with limited and Commander in mind because those are the money makers it certainly does seem like they should be designing with eternal in mind. I played 4 commander games tonight. Do you know how many times Commander damage that I wasn't personally tracking was forgotten? It's more than 4. And no, you don't have to track it only if you're doing consistent damage. That is one of the larger flaws with the design. If it gets introduced and then stagnates it's still required to be tracked, but more likely to be forgotten. There are players out there who will arrive at the lgs play a few games then sit around for the length of a game because it deals with mechanics they don't want to be bothered about. One of my good friends won't take part in a game that has the potential to include the initiative. Now speed is easier, but it's still a hassle. This isn't attractions or stickers level of nonsense that needs to be banned, but it adds to the increasing pile of clutter associated with the game and that is bad design. I said it back when Innistrad required sleeves or proxies and it's only escalated.
@@markbrierley6367 "designing for Commander" and designing for Eternal Formats are two different things. Commander is a casual format, meaning players are not trying to play optimally in 99% of cases, so some extra complexity is acceptable because you can also choose to play with less complexity if that suites you. It's competitive formats that require considering all options regardless of complexity. That works for Standard since it rotates, and for Limited since you only have to consider what is in that set. Competitive Eternal formats like Legacy allow design mistakes going back to the beginning, like the Power 9, so expecting designers to design every new mechanic with the assumption that it will be played along side those is unreasonable. Commander has extra complexity inherently. You have 4 players, 100 card singleton, and the format is skewed such that massively clogged up boards are the norm, which is why Red and White historically struggled in it. The designers did consider Commander for Red and White's problems, but you should notice they did so while still keeping Standard and Limited in mind. This is why White and Red got card draw effects that were viable in Commander but that wouldn't invalidate their indented weaknesses in the color pie. Finally, your examples are not proof, they are anecdotal at best and not how the average player experiences the game. People seem to regularly forget that most Magic players don't even go to LGSs or other events, and just play with "cards they own".
@Mordalon I will grant you that designing for Legacy and Vintage are different than designing for Commander. I will not grant you that this difference is the reality of the situation. Wizards has gone on record saying that such competitive eternal design considerations take place but have very low priority in the majority of cases. We know they design for Commander; Nadu being a recent highly publicized example. So if they're designing for Commander, this additionally tracked complexity (especially as a noticeable design trend) is bad game design. Ringbearer is a great example in similarity. I am of the opinion that it is equally unwieldy, but, unlike Ringbearer, Speed is more likely to pop up in decks not dedicated to the theme. That land similar to Temple of the False God is likely to see extensive play, but not necessarily in decks with any other speed mechanic cards which is an additional knock against the design. I'm aware my anecdotes aren't proof, but they represent symptoms in the community. I could have instead referenced me and 4 buddies gathering in one of our apartments for some Commander and drinks last Friday. Those games were even more of a mess since alcohol was involved. Neither situation's settings bear upon the point being that adding new complexity to an already complex game should be done carefully and this mechanic flirts with that line. In my opinion, it flirts from over the line.
I was going to skip this episode because I genuinely don’t care about MTG releases these days, but I just watched the big mid quiz and I can’t get enough of y’all, so here I am.
I hate to be that guy but I really am not into this set. I don't like the aesthetics or the premise of a car racing themed magic set, the yellow border seems garish and unnecessary to me, I found the story to be unsatisfying, and I really dislike the speed mechanic. I wish we had just gotten a revisit to Amonkhet or a new Avishkar set. purely a personal judgement, I'm not saying the set is bad or the designers are wrong. the one positive thought I have is that I do think cycling is a cool mechanical choice for a racing theme. I think I'm just getting cynical in my old age (23). maybe I need to take a break from magic for a while.
maybe they look better in person on paper, but the yellow border special treatment is one of the ugliest borders i think I've ever seen on a magic card.
I don’t like the flavor of the set because it feels a lot like OTJ or MKM where it’s “hey, we have your favorite characters wearing [insert profitable thing]” I do like the mechanical identity because start your engines is unique and is either going to be overtuned or undertuned. I don’t know which but it looks fun.
What do you mean "profitable thing"? It's just leaning into the theme of the set. Charters in a race will dress like they are in a race, and even then most characters we've seen haven't done that, with some just wearing goggles, which makes sense to wear if you are going really fast to protect your eyes.
@@Mordalon>the theme of the set Yes and I am calling the theme contrived and unmagic like. I specifically compared it to OTJ and MKM to further this comparison where the theme was “we’re doing your favorite characters but with [ ] hats on!”
@@t_s_albatross3270 That didn't answer my question about "profitable thing". And how is this contrived any more so than any other top-down heavy plane theme? Also, it's really not "unmagic" when we already literally had racing cares in Magic in original Kaladesh block. And given the current open nature of the multiverse with Omen paths, having a competition to tie planes together makes a lot of sense.
Ben seemed to think you can use 3 mana from the Boommobile to only get the counter for Exhaust then cast a 1 drop, but you can only use the mana for abilities. Kathleen also said it's ramp, which isn't the case.
Wizards of the Coast are cowards for continuing to lean extensively into Cats while they are already a fairly fleshed out creature type while neglecting Dogs, which barely get acknowledged from set to set.
There isn’t a thing they can do short of having a kiss in card art that will get me to fall for the queerbaiting of Chandra and Nissa again. After what they did in WotS, subtext isn’t worth anything.
@@Mordalon my point is that they had the two all but go on a cutesy date and then had the “I was never really into girls anyway” line. It’s a “fool me once” situation.
@@Mordalon trusting any company to not do something they have already provably done before isn’t a safe bet. Always remember that companies will do whatever the execs think they can get away with, and WotC provably thinks we’re all chumps.
"Start Your Engines" increments by 1 once per turn but starts at 1 (your speed can't be 0). If you're able to make your opponent lose life on the turn you play a "Start Your Engines" card you'll increment to 2, so it can be as little as 3 turns before you're at "Max Speed." Hope this helps!
So in commander, if I make all 3 of my opponents lose life at the same time my speed goes to 4?
No, it increments once per turn when any opponent loses one or more life during your turn, so no matter what you do it can only increase by once each turn
@@ShutUpDoug The token used to track speed should help clear up any questions, but to summarize: gaining speed can only trigger once per turn, regardless of how many opponents you cause to lose life. :)
Also this might be obvious to other people but i didn't realize for quite a while that you have speed not the card so if you already have max speed from a previous card all your future cards will have their speed ability, so long as you don't lose speed.
With Start Your Engines! there's also the OTJ ping deserts that can help less burn-oriented colors reach Max Speed
I waited through the whole segment before commenting, but the bookmobile's mana can only be used on activating abilities, so unless you can filter it through something else, you can't use it to lightning bolt/cast a one drop. It has a lot of words and is new, so understandable to miss that, I just wanted to comment for other folks watching!
ALSO I want to thank you for how joyous this podcast is! I have a chandra/gruulfriends bias, but I loved the story, have been loving the previews (and especially the comic book-esque art on vehicles, reminds me of the ikoria mutate alt art that I love), and have felt like I haven't seen much of a space where people are talking positively about the set (most people saying they feel like it's UB/unset/too jokey/etc), so seeing other people as excited as me is really awesome! I'm excited to watch the PPR!!
I love it when you guys really stretch the words "we're adults." Keep being awesome 😊
Before listening to this, I just want to say my biggest "irritation" is that we have Hashaton, who has the 2 different "zombie matters" colors of Amonket (Orzhov zombies from Amonkhet and Dimir Zombies due to Scarab God in Hour) which means we could have had a follower in Jund that cares about negative counters (Golgari was heavily the negative counters colors and Scorpion God was Rakdos.) I just want a Jund legend that cares about wither/wither adjacent abilities, dang it.
During the pride event I partnered Faldorn and Prosper and it was sick. I'm shocked Wizards hasn't made this a thing yet since they barely have any self control at this point.
That actually sounds amazing in general. Ive debated trying to bring that sort of pairing option to my tiny playgroup.
@@markbrierley6367 They have plenty of restraint. There's entire color wedges/shards without a Planeswalker, like Naya, Sultai, and Abzan.
Country Roads is in the plain of West Virginia as confirmed by the John Denver announcement.
John Denver Secret Lair!
It would be Virginia. The Shenandoah River and Blue Ridge Mountains are in Virginia, not West Virginia.
@@thomashardin9696 classic Wizards, Story and Game Design not communicating.
There are colorless lands with Start Your Engines, which allows you to get Speed started on turn 1 without having a 1 drop.
With a Gingerbrute off of a Muraganda Raceway turn one you can really speedrun this mechanic.
Aw, frog mama! My mom & dad collected frogs - and raced cars! So clearly I have to build something cool from this set to honor them ❤️ Thanks!!!
Ketramose is one of the cards I’ve been most excited for in many years 👀
I’ve had a Kaya themed deck based on exile and I finally have a legal commander for it 🙌
7:00 I love you guys, but I have never heard someone say so many wrong things one after the other, consecutively, in a row. You cannot "save the mana" because it'll go away at end of phase, and you can't Lightning Bolt or Ragavan with it because it can't be used on spells
Also it isn't a creature unless it is crewed, so it isn't really an infinite flicker then fireball with its ability kind of creature since all activated ability flickers are either creature only or they have it return eot, which doesn't do anything.
@@plundypops Not quite right, Abuelo actually states "creature or artifact" but the cost is 1WU, so it still won't work unless you have unlimited mana filtering. However, there are several ways around this, so the general idea of looping for three to generate enough mana to kill with the ability does work, they just provided some bad examples of it. The easiest way to do this is with Bello or Kolodin, Triumph Caster, but there are other ways (Make 2 power of tokens on Vehicle non-token artifact etb, flickering Felidar Guardian to flicker the Boommobile, etc)
@@JovialRoger That is why I also put "or comes back eot" which Abuelo does. So even if you have some way to filter it it won't do much for you since it will come back on your end step and you can't infinite it.
The infinite combos with Felidar require you to flicker the thing that makes infinite felidars to win the game, or else the loop doesn't work... You just flicker felidar to flicker this once in that case.
@@plundypops You are right that I missed that about Abuelo, however you don't need infinite Felidar Guardians, it works with Emiel the Blessed. Boommobile enters, pay 3 to Emiel to blink Guardian, Guardian blinks Boommobile netting 1 mana of any color to be used on abilities, loop as needed.
COUNTRY ROOOOOOOADS
TAKE ME HOOOOOOME
To the Plaaaaane
I BELOOOOOOONNNNNGGG
MURAGANDA
Came here from: Explaining the card, Explains the card. Then straight into "start your engines."
Keywords are a pretty useful tool.
Love Aether drift story. Read Aetherdrift story
I bought your Klimt sleeves yesterday, I've done my part!
Thank you for your honesty, Cam. I too wish to E.T. Loot every time it shows up
Hazoret:
Play 1 drop, if uncontested play Haz on 2 and you're at 2 speed.
If contested, you can play hazrat on three and activate her ability in order to get something through and have speed 2. Seems pretty good
I dont onow if any LRR crew actualy read these comments, and im sure ben has already thought about this for "Sita slime against humanity" but if you have jetfire ingenious scientist out, thats gunna be the biggest value for x ive ever seen.
Side note, you could go half slime against humanity, half persistent pertitioner, full jank mode.
Shouts to BenBen representing the Dry of Canada
Great energy!
Re: Mendicant Core the way I see it:
T1: Savannah Lions
T2: Mendicant Core - (speed = 1); combat: hit opp with lion (speed = 2)
T3: do anything to harm opp (speed = 3)
T4: do anything to harm opp (speed = 4)
I agre with Ben re: Mu Yanling, I've been playing Esper Bounce with stormchaser's talent and all that a bit, could see it being in some form of deck like that in the future.
This episode has tremendous energy. Also, I saw something about Chandra and Nissa being enGAYged now? 👀
Ben: "I don't really know how Start Your Engines works exactly."
Ben a few minutes later: "Here is my nuanced opinion on why I don't like Start Your Engines"
Agonasaur Rex is good enough to get into Gishath as a B tier dino
I just watched the new Rhystic Studies video on the word soups and parsing hell of some cards... Combo into the discussion at 45:00 on Elvish Refueler...
"Explaining the card, explains the card"
Bro, I am just gonna wait for the arena implementation and figure out what to do when, because for sure I will not be able to make heads or tails of this on PR day.
I didn’t need that and was able to understand it. In this very video they break down the wording. How does what if say not explain that?
37:20 oh, my god they're roommates
I don't THINK the Oildeep Gearhulk is using Phyrexian oil, just normal oil that makes people kinda leery because "uh remember the last time oil was a thing".
Even if it is Phyrexian Oil, it was rendered inert. Same thing happened with Urborg after Yawgmoth was defeated, and it had the oil hanging around for centuries.
58:19 This is all I retained 😭...
Must watch again.
Am I missing something where Ben says you can play ragavan off the red mana from boommobile when the card says “use this mana only to activate abilities”?
They forget things.
@Mordalon all good, I miss things all the time.
I think the first card you put into a sita varma deck is raised by giants.
Sita could be a cool construct commander!
Every time I see the WU robots, I can't get over them being so Nier Automata-coded. Wizards got a deal with Square for Final Fantasy and Nier collabs with every single game under the Sun, so maybe we can get a UB with 2B one of these days?
A UB for the entire Taro-verse would be amazing, since that includes fantasy stuff like Dragons and spells from Drakengard as well as the scifi robots and magic/tech hybrids we see in the original Nier.
Is the aetherdrift soundtrack more initial D, or more f-zero?
It depends on the team you are rooting for.
Wipeout 64
Redline. Bring the UNTZ
I think it's important to clarify it only takes 3 turns to hit max speed. You can go from 1 to 2 the turn you start your engines. That's why it's worded so strangely.
Now, your opponent can still stymie that pace, but getting max speed a whole turn earlier is a big deal.
Also Sab-Sunen not being an upkeep trigger is so annoying. It's not optional, it should go in the upkeep; but no, you can't trust players to resolve their miracle cards properly so now your Paradox Haze dreams have been dashed.
@@DrFlash-oi6ju It's meant to be worded the exact way as Bounty of the Luxa, which had that wording as the mana generating effect wanted you to be able to keep the mana for stuff in the main phase.
@@Mordalon oh, I'm going to be real with you; I've never seen that card in my life.
I wonder if Boommobile + Deadeye Navigator could be real in some non commander format
It would re-enter as a noncreature Vehicle, so the combination has some issues.
Was my first thought as well, but yeah, the need to crew it makes it tricky. You can still get infinite ETBs by using the navigator to crew the boommobile, flicker the navigator, soulbond, flicker the boommobile, rinse/repeat; but it doesn't net any mana, so needs another piece to do anything.
Edit: Immediately realised even this doesn't work, can't flicker the navigator unless it's already soulbonded
Nissa + Cultivator Colossus = profit
engagement for the engagement algorithm!
Aetherdrift
Take me hift
To the place
I belift
Woo, great way end the day! (Do we still do first comment thing?)
Not sure the 'first comment' is still a thing but you got in before the bots, which is impressive in itself!
It’s 1pm
@@The808andrew808 Maybe I work night shift? Maybe I live in a different time zone? Maybe time isn't linear to me and I have chosen to flit back into existence for this precise time just to end the day? Anyway, love TTC.
So is this a set that supports fast decks?
And vehicles
Loot is from the movie Critters. When we finally find Loot’s home, we will see them turn all of them join into a giant ball like Myr Battlesphere and devour everyone.
*Hears Revel in Riches*
Negate?
I am engaged (also this set looks sick)
Why did you guys not go over The Aetherspark?!?!?!?!?!?
The issues with Day/Night don't really apply with Speed. Yes it's still active without any cards out that care about it, but unlike Day/Night which can vary many turns later, this only increments in one direction and has a limit before you don't need to track it anymore, like the CIty's Blessing. And for the "cracking a fetchland" thing, that could already come up with Spectacle.
Also, it feels more like a Tempo mechanic than Midrange. You want to hit the opponent early and consistently, hitting the apex around turn 4/5, which is how Tempo usually plays out.
Except in all the games in which the start your engines card is removed and one stops tracking it because one doesn't have anything else that cares and then someone shuffles all graveyards back in. Or one forgets triggers (nobody ever does that right?). Or one doesn't announce the increment and people get into an argument about it. Or one's playmat is already overflowing and it's one more piece of real estate that the game requires everyone to represent so that the game state is understandable. Or. Or. Or.
Now I will admit not all of these happen frequently. But I will also caution that they all happen and it's big feel bads when mistakes happen especially leading to contention and it's bad game design to include such with decades of game design knowledge in house.
@@markbrierley6367 As I said, you only have to track it so long as you consistently deal damage, which is easy to remember, and once you do that a couple times there's no need to keep track of it any differently than City's Blessing or Tempted By the Ring. This is only kind of an issue in eternal formats, and limiting the design just because of formats that, by their nature, use every card from every release for a game that is 30+ years isn't really good for the future of the game.
You can make the same "miss triggers" argument for a ton of mechanics that track things over multiple turns, including ones people seem to have no problem with.
@Mordalon well considering Wizards has been designing mostly with limited and Commander in mind because those are the money makers it certainly does seem like they should be designing with eternal in mind.
I played 4 commander games tonight. Do you know how many times Commander damage that I wasn't personally tracking was forgotten? It's more than 4.
And no, you don't have to track it only if you're doing consistent damage. That is one of the larger flaws with the design. If it gets introduced and then stagnates it's still required to be tracked, but more likely to be forgotten.
There are players out there who will arrive at the lgs play a few games then sit around for the length of a game because it deals with mechanics they don't want to be bothered about. One of my good friends won't take part in a game that has the potential to include the initiative. Now speed is easier, but it's still a hassle. This isn't attractions or stickers level of nonsense that needs to be banned, but it adds to the increasing pile of clutter associated with the game and that is bad design. I said it back when Innistrad required sleeves or proxies and it's only escalated.
@@markbrierley6367 "designing for Commander" and designing for Eternal Formats are two different things. Commander is a casual format, meaning players are not trying to play optimally in 99% of cases, so some extra complexity is acceptable because you can also choose to play with less complexity if that suites you. It's competitive formats that require considering all options regardless of complexity. That works for Standard since it rotates, and for Limited since you only have to consider what is in that set.
Competitive Eternal formats like Legacy allow design mistakes going back to the beginning, like the Power 9, so expecting designers to design every new mechanic with the assumption that it will be played along side those is unreasonable.
Commander has extra complexity inherently. You have 4 players, 100 card singleton, and the format is skewed such that massively clogged up boards are the norm, which is why Red and White historically struggled in it. The designers did consider Commander for Red and White's problems, but you should notice they did so while still keeping Standard and Limited in mind. This is why White and Red got card draw effects that were viable in Commander but that wouldn't invalidate their indented weaknesses in the color pie.
Finally, your examples are not proof, they are anecdotal at best and not how the average player experiences the game. People seem to regularly forget that most Magic players don't even go to LGSs or other events, and just play with "cards they own".
@Mordalon I will grant you that designing for Legacy and Vintage are different than designing for Commander. I will not grant you that this difference is the reality of the situation. Wizards has gone on record saying that such competitive eternal design considerations take place but have very low priority in the majority of cases. We know they design for Commander; Nadu being a recent highly publicized example. So if they're designing for Commander, this additionally tracked complexity (especially as a noticeable design trend) is bad game design. Ringbearer is a great example in similarity. I am of the opinion that it is equally unwieldy, but, unlike Ringbearer, Speed is more likely to pop up in decks not dedicated to the theme. That land similar to Temple of the False God is likely to see extensive play, but not necessarily in decks with any other speed mechanic cards which is an additional knock against the design.
I'm aware my anecdotes aren't proof, but they represent symptoms in the community. I could have instead referenced me and 4 buddies gathering in one of our apartments for some Commander and drinks last Friday. Those games were even more of a mess since alcohol was involved. Neither situation's settings bear upon the point being that adding new complexity to an already complex game should be done carefully and this mechanic flirts with that line. In my opinion, it flirts from over the line.
I thought they would have put junk tokens into the set they seem like a pretty thematic inclusion
Those could go into any set with a heavy artifact theme. Another upcoming possibility is in Edge of Eternity.
I was going to skip this episode because I genuinely don’t care about MTG releases these days, but I just watched the big mid quiz and I can’t get enough of y’all, so here I am.
Vroomvroom!
I hate to be that guy but I really am not into this set. I don't like the aesthetics or the premise of a car racing themed magic set, the yellow border seems garish and unnecessary to me, I found the story to be unsatisfying, and I really dislike the speed mechanic. I wish we had just gotten a revisit to Amonkhet or a new Avishkar set.
purely a personal judgement, I'm not saying the set is bad or the designers are wrong. the one positive thought I have is that I do think cycling is a cool mechanical choice for a racing theme. I think I'm just getting cynical in my old age (23). maybe I need to take a break from magic for a while.
I think it's sad that my second biggest problem with this set is that a lot of the special treatments look like they have been dipped in urine.
maybe they look better in person on paper, but the yellow border special treatment is one of the ugliest borders i think I've ever seen on a magic card.
I don’t like the flavor of the set because it feels a lot like OTJ or MKM where it’s “hey, we have your favorite characters wearing [insert profitable thing]”
I do like the mechanical identity because start your engines is unique and is either going to be overtuned or undertuned. I don’t know which but it looks fun.
What do you mean "profitable thing"? It's just leaning into the theme of the set. Charters in a race will dress like they are in a race, and even then most characters we've seen haven't done that, with some just wearing goggles, which makes sense to wear if you are going really fast to protect your eyes.
@@Mordalon>the theme of the set
Yes and I am calling the theme contrived and unmagic like. I specifically compared it to OTJ and MKM to further this comparison where the theme was “we’re doing your favorite characters but with [ ] hats on!”
@@t_s_albatross3270 That didn't answer my question about "profitable thing". And how is this contrived any more so than any other top-down heavy plane theme? Also, it's really not "unmagic" when we already literally had racing cares in Magic in original Kaladesh block. And given the current open nature of the multiverse with Omen paths, having a competition to tie planes together makes a lot of sense.
Ben seemed to think you can use 3 mana from the Boommobile to only get the counter for Exhaust then cast a 1 drop, but you can only use the mana for abilities. Kathleen also said it's ramp, which isn't the case.
It's amazing how much my enthusiasm for this set is dampened by those checkered flag set symbols. Dislike.
Same here, but for the inclusion of Loot being randomly added in art.
Why is Chandra carrying loot in a sling?
Why? It’s a basic pattern. Would it be better if the symbol was a tire, or a steering wheel?
@@Thane1607 It's not "random", Loot is literally part of the story, they even have "story spotlight" on multiple cards they are featured in.
Wizards of the Coast are cowards for continuing to lean extensively into Cats while they are already a fairly fleshed out creature type while neglecting Dogs, which barely get acknowledged from set to set.
Hasn't there been a bunch of press about how bad it is to work for Card Kingdom and that was AFTER they unionized?
3:20 heheheheheh “sponsorship”
Loot soup sounds disgusting
There isn’t a thing they can do short of having a kiss in card art that will get me to fall for the queerbaiting of Chandra and Nissa again. After what they did in WotS, subtext isn’t worth anything.
Has there even been hetero kissing in Magic art before?
According to Scryfall, most hetero kisses are on the forehead, while the closest lip to lip kiss is the very gay SL art for Savor the Moment.
@@Mordalon my point is that they had the two all but go on a cutesy date and then had the “I was never really into girls anyway” line. It’s a “fool me once” situation.
@ And I'm saying a lot has changed since then, but since they are a business, even if they gave you what you wanted it wouldn't change that.
@@Mordalon trusting any company to not do something they have already provably done before isn’t a safe bet. Always remember that companies will do whatever the execs think they can get away with, and WotC provably thinks we’re all chumps.