At almost 80 and still carrying a handgun I must compliment you on your videos. Every one I have viewed shows a true understanding of what handguns and what the myriad mass of different ammunition available can do. Whether it's a chunk of baloney, gel, fiber board or denim the visuals hammer home the pluses and the minuses of each caliber, handgun and cartridge. Your calm and pleasant demeanor makes your video more like a conversation with the viewer. My forty plus years of shooting and reloading taught me one thing, there is always something to learn. Thanks for the time you have devoted instructing people interested in the world of shooting.
Something funny repeating itself. In December 2022, I did a video of .357 Sig VS .45 ACP+P Grizzly ammo, same .45 ACP ammo. In that video I got about the same velocity, and the SAME level of unreliability in my Glock 41. In that video I got trolled to death about how my Glock 41 "never runs right", which was false, so I compiled a video showing the past 6 months of testing with my Glock 41 running totally reliably. That link is here: th-cam.com/video/SHtsI-4ml7k/w-d-xo.html THEN, I ran this Glock pistol for two more years nearly flawlessly, no one ever said anything about it....then TWO YEARS later I run the same Grizzly ammo, get the same unreliability and people start up again with "that pistol NEVER runs reliably", so I then post a video showing every shot in my Glock 41 from Jan 1st 2024 till December 17th 2024 with zero malfunctions in the Glock until I tested this ammo. Link here: th-cam.com/video/2dHL8rE7m-M/w-d-xo.html So my point of this comment, was to basically reach out to anyone out there who might tell me why people are this way. Is there a psychiatrist or psychologist in my subscribers who can explain why people are doing this or why this Mandela effect keeps happening? It's getting really annoying and I am at a loss for an explanation. My only thought is that 4 years ago I tried to do a 10mm conversion with this Glock 41 and it never ran right, so people are remembering that and then remembering it wrong as if those malfunctions were in the stock .45 ACP pistol? i'm at a loss and it's going to drive ME nuts until I understand what is going on psychologically, because I don't think a day goes my that someone doesn't watch a video where I test .45 ACP and comment "that gun never runs right" if it happens to be the 1 in 20 video where I get ONE malfunction with it in the entire video. Someone explain this phenomenon please - thanks in advance.
I think the explanation could be cognitive dissonance. Some people might find it disturbing to think of the possibility of a non user-induced malfunction putting their autoloader out of action at a moment 9f great need, too disturbing to just rationally break down the possibility and formulate strategies or solutions to mitigate, so instead they (probably at a subconscious level) rationalize the other direction and say to themselves, "that doesn't happen." Now, because the video footage demonstrates that it can and does in fact happen, then the rationalization needs to go a step further in order to eliminate the dissonance between the belief and the evidence. So that further rationalization will probably take the form of someone, who doesn't like Glocks, saying "Oh, it's a Glock, that's why. My [insert other brand here] never malfunctions." On the other hand, if such type of person does like Glocks, or they intuit that the principle being demonstrated as going to apply to their other autoloaders as well, then the rationalization comes down to, "Oh, it's him. It's a user induced malfunction."
I never ran Grizzly through my G30, but everything else runs fine through it. Except for some reason cheapo Armscor ammo. I noticed that it was ever so slightly longer over all vs other cartridges. After doing a slight polish of the feed ramp. The problem went away. Plus not buying Armscor anymore.
Sam - thank you for the test. I'm one of those chaps that doesn't do Chrono or gel tests of the ammo I purchase....and I'm also one of those chaps that is averse to being eaten by grizzlies! 😂😂😂
This would be a GREAT video to show anyone who asks "why bother using a chrono?" MAN - that 45 is delivering some serious power - the power factor is on par with 45 Super...
I can get some Grizzly 90gr HP 357Sig ammo that has a velocity of 1800 fps and 700 ft. lbs. of energy but Grizzly ammo doesn't have a proven QC record.
I'd have to track that lot number on the 44 and find out when it was loaded. That's like either a mistake on the powder measuring part of the operation, or a worker screwed up.
Thanks! I'm curious how much the cylinder gap affects the barrel length ratio between revolvers and autoloaders. Just a random question, I dig your style, dude. Edit: ooh, and does the forcing cone even count? Obviously the chamber on the autoloader doesn't count. Again, just random thoughts.
Sam's sails sunk when he found out that wasn't .44 special but rather .43 Touched! Sam your Xmas Gifts should be arriving next few days. I hope everyone enjoys the 6 or so tests I think you will be able to make out of it all, albeit low round count vids.
Yeah, that lot of .44Spl needs to be reported to Grizzly. That is totally uncharacteristic of their loadings. I've shot their stuff for several years, and they usually kill it.
You might want to contact Grizzly ammo about those shells. They may want to check on that entire lot. The next higher weight of spring on the Glock might improve function.
After seeing the big name ammo companies have been loading the 45 acp compared to the 9mm and 40 it was very refreshing to see what a 45 loaded properly can do. Thanks for the video and i really hope you can find a lot more ammo in 45 that is worth resting. Perhaps video onwhat can be done when you can reload the 45 acp
Hi gun Sam. Another awsome video. Im using your video for medicine for my soul. I've been very busy with a old mother that needs assisted living,but refuses help. Typical Pennsylvania mountain people. Tough as wild cats, but every one gets old. Both cartridge I love.i absolutely love my Colt 1911 45 acp.and 44 spl out of my ruger super Blackhawk hunter revolver. Both work. And well.we'll. I carry my 1911 alot feel very well protected from anything. God bless merry Christmas. 😊😊
I doubt it lol. With the powder puff charges they used, a rifle would probably make it even slower than a handgun by the time it fought all that friction.
Good show!! I would be ashamed if I were Grizzly. Like you said, most people trust what the box says. I couldn’t in good conscience sell 1 box of .44 Special to anyone if I were Grizzly. Stuff like this is what ruins your business Grizzly. That’s some of the worst ammo I’ve seen.
So, it's started....several comments on how I am making my Glock jam, how my pistol is junk, how I need to learn how to shoot, etc etc etc. So, I went back, compiled a video of every single shot of .45 ACP that I have released this calendar year, every single shot from a released video in 2024 - and this Grizzly ammo was the FIRST malfunction I have had all year. For some reason, people remember reality differently. You can see how annoying it is for me with people telling me I need to fix my pistol, how I need to swap springs and magazine springs when the reason for my Glock malfunctions in this video is obvious. th-cam.com/video/2dHL8rE7m-M/w-d-xo.html
@@thaknobodi Agree. This is one of those times when I think you really do need a stiffer recoil spring. Actually, I think that ammo is just plain loaded too hot. 230 grain at 950 to 980 is max for 45 acp to function properly and not bang up a good gun.
Sam, you are always going to have nagging comments from keyboard wanna-bes who probably have never fired a real gun in their lives. Just ignore them and don't feed the trolls. The rest of us know you know what you're doing.
@@CeltKnight I like to investigate stuff like this. It may seem like feeding the trolls, but honestly it does the opposite. I get non stop trolls, then I make a pinned comment proving them wrong, they stop. If I replied to them directly, it might feed them.
@@GunSam - Fair point. Obviously you know what you're doing, brother. Great channel, and VERY good shooting. As always, I enjoy your content and I do like it when you show up the whiners. ;)
I stopped buying grizzly ammo after a similar experience with their 357mag ammo a few years ago were my friends 4.5” gun averaged just a hair over 1100fps with what was supposed to be a full power a 125grain round
I honestly think that the .45 ACP was unreliable because it was overloaded. Nearly 1100 fps. from a 230 grain projectile is .45 Super territory. The .44 Special was polar opposite! Anyway...thanks for sharing!👍🙏
Contrast this with a guy that's carefully loaded up hot .45acp and fired it in his 1911 platforms, up in .45 Super territory and with 250gr cast loads, firing THOUSANDS of them with minimal modifications with no issues. It's the Glock, not the load.
@@exothermal.sprocket Minimal? Maybe, but the modifications are necessary to use the higher pressure .45 Super ammunition safely. I personally would not use such ammunition in a poly framed pistol at any rate, but marketing .45 ACP ammunition that is clearly loaded as .45 Super is unethical at the least.
@@hillbillyscholar8126 Minimal. 20 lb spring, Wilson shock buffer, Ed Brown hammer. That's it. 250gr, average 1190 fps. Nearly 6000 rounds of the heavy stuff. No broken stuff on it. You curious, type in Stuck Case.
@@exothermal.sprocket Lets see here....45 Super shows a 230 grain bullet at 1100 fps and .460 Rowland shows a 230 grain bullet at 1320 fps. You claim 1190 fps from a 250 grain .45 ACP with a 20 lb. recoil spring? Nah...that is not the case. I don't believe it. But whatever, you do you.
I don't use Grizzly Ammunition. While it is usually excellent quality, you never know what will be in the box. I tried a box of the .357 Magnum 200 grain lead flat nose gas check. The ammo performed very well, but the bullets had no gas checks on them. If I pay for gas checks, I want gas checks.
Gun Sam I spent 18 years in Alaska. And I have a grizzly hide here in Pennsylvania. I kilt it in 1996 behind gunsite mountain with my marlin 45-70. It smoked him. All legal. God bless😊
That .44 Special was so low powered that I don't think even a 6" barrel would boost it anywhere near the quoted velocity of 970 FPS.Maybe a carbine might get it near that but then the lower power and the extra friction in a carbine barrel may actually make it exit slower than the 650 FPS mark.
I ran a .357 sig barrel in a G22 for 5 or 6 years, then it would jam exactly like that on .40. I replaced the recoil spring under the barrel and it went back to working fine. Mike Rintoul owns Grizzly, I was emailing him a couple years ago - I had a batch of .40 Grizzly that was too hot to stabilize, it would keyhole and tumble. None of my .40 barrels could spin it right. He had long conversations with me about it, so he will likely respond if you contact him.
GS. Good and very interesting video. I have some Fiocchi .44 Special Cowboy Action 210 Gr rounds that they rate at 750 fps. If they were 240 Gr that might put them in the mid 600's fps. I have not chronographed them so don't know if the numbers are real. Thanks again and take care.
I just bought a HiPoint JHP45 to test my 45 Super loads in. I don't want to beat up the Springfield NM. I think your light slide is out running the magazine. That Grizz 45 is legit for sure. I hope they are watching to respond about the 44 Special.
Grizzly usually tests pretty well. Kind of a third to BB and UW ammo. Plus I shoot different types of hot BB and UW ammo out of my G30 with zero issues. Oddly my G30 doesn’t like Armscor ball ammo until I polished the feed ramp. Now my G29 doesn’t like 220 grain hardcast, but likes the 200 grain from UW. And everything else I’ve shot through it.
Man, That .45 Ammo is Hot. I wants it, I Needs It, my Precious . Maybe it's loaded for 1911's? Saw some grizzly ammo for the .41 Magnum, now i'm happy with that brand after seeing your video.
From a practical standpoint, the 45ACP ammo is easier to find than the 44 Special. I’ve never been in grizzly areas but my pick would be a 45-70, 338WM, or 375H&H, or something with similar thumping abilities! The only handgun that I’d want to carry for grizzlies would be a BFR in 45-70 because it’d match the MR 1895 that I’d be carrying! And while I’m inclined towards a usable load in the BFR, I’d like something more like the “Hand of God” in the rifle! Again, I’ve never been to bear country but I’m leaning towards heavier hitters rather than comfortable to shoot at the range, lol!
An interesting comparison video. Too bad the .44 was so wimpy. I wonder if the factory had a problem with their machinery. Wish we could have seen what it did at rated velocity.
As I often say about your 45 ACP videos. No substitute for mass. Today's EDC will be a S&W 4586 DAO single stack w/Underwood 45 ACP +P 255g hardcast @925fps
It can't be from that. Even a 44 Special loaded with blackpowder, like the original loading from 1907, should be doing over 700 ft./s. out of Gun Sam's 4" S&W. There is an old article by Mike Cumpston you can find online where he shoots bona fide original 44 Special out of a 4" Mountain Gun and chronos it. The box of ammo was manufactured sometime between 1913 and 1916, and even with those antiques, he got 709 ft./s. average. When he replaced the 80+ year old blackpowder in some of the cases with equivalent loading of Goex, he averaged 762 ft./s. Also, these were the original, 246 gr. LRN bullets, so they were 6 grains, or 2.5% greater, weight than the Grizzly Cartridge bullets. Even sticking at SAAMI spec for 44 Special - which is low precisely because of concerns over people chambering.them in antique pistols - the cartridge is capable of developing much, much more than what these Grizzly Cartridges did. Case in point are HSM's "Cowboy Action, 240 gr. LSWC." Those are advertised by HSM as 845 ft./s. out of a 6.5" barrel, and they are clocked by people as doing 684 to low 690s out of a GP100 3". Even out of my Charter Bulldog, which has only a 2.5" barrel, they are in the 680s. Even with low pressure loads, the 44 Special should be getting an extra 15 to 38 ft./s. per inch, depending how fast the barrel geometry and specific powder, so with a 4" you'd expect 700 ft./s. Additionally, there's the whole thing with Grizzly advertising 950 ft./s., which they're most likely using a 6" barrel, which would mean it should be getting well over 800 ft./s. in a 4". Anyway you dice it, whatever they shipped out to Gun Sam just looks like poorly made ammo with their 44 Special JHP. PS: To hammer the point further, keep in mind that something such as the HSM 240 gr. LSWC is loaded to be shot out of anything. It's on the low end of what can be done with the cartridge, even within the feeble SAAMI spec for 44 Special. The cartridge can be loaded to develop 850+ ft./s. with a 250 gr. bullet even out of a snub barrel, and still be at low pressure. For example, a popular handload for 44 Special is 7.5 grains Unique under a 250 gr. Keith bullet: that can clock 870 ft./s. out of the Charter Bulldog, with the short barrel.
I've never seen a 230 grain 45 ACP +P load this hot. I suspect the pressure is well above the accepted norm of 23,000 PSI and closer to the 28,000 PSI of the 45 Super. I'm glad the cases held up. Were there any signs of flattened or punctured primers, backed out primers, or cracked case mouths?
After the Bear ate him, he was obviously happy even with a few .43 caliber holes lodged in his fat, so he was taking a walk in the woods and a Rabbit linked up to join along. After awhile, the Bear had to take a kaka in the woods from all that dirty human meat. He looked over and asked the Rabbit if he ever had trouble with kaka sticking to his fur. The Rabbit said no, so the Bear wiped his butt with the Rabbit!
@@GunSam Ok, good info. My theory is that the reduced weight of the 41 slide was probably by too much to make that conversion doable. I think I would have liked the 41 more if they had made it with the width of the 21 slide, just making it longer like they did with the G40. Never made sense to me why they made the 41 slide narrower than the 21. I had a 41 for a bit, but preferred shooting the 21.
Gun Sam i hunt with 44mag hard cast bullets hand loads. They do not expand. But completely penetrate through game. Through personal experience. My hard cast handloads are very deadly game getters. Im shooting through my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 7 1/2" barrel. They are very accurate.
I was hoping for a close comparison. Those are polar opposite. That's one hot 45 and one anemic 44. I like that 45 performance though, that's 10mm energy! Too bad it wouldn't function for you.
Grizzly has/had a 90grn. XTP 357sig. It was ludicrous speed and bullet grenade time for the gel. I think it was close to 700ft.lbs energy. 😮 ( now I'm gonna have to find the test again "arizona air gunner" I think is the tester.
Great video. Grizzly needs to have the remaining cartridges examined at their own expense to find out what is going on. This is a gross fail on the production line. 300fps error the other way could blow a gun up. Also a jacketed bullet at 650fps is potentially a squib hazard.Particularly if some guy were to fire this in his lever action as a reduced load there is a good chance it doesnt exit the barrel, in fact I'd almost bet on that being the outcome. If you dont want to send them back Id at least pull a bullet and weigh the charge and include this information and the velocity report to grizzly
Sheesh, don’t these ammo companies have any QC? That’s awful performance from the 44 special. Makes you wonder how many batches are out there that aren’t even close to what’s rated on the box.
I had that happen one time with Hornady Critical Defense .38 Special+P, upside down bullet, looked like a wadcutter. I emailed them, and was basically called a liar. Then they started acting weird and offered to send me a hat as if I was trying to get something from them. I replied that I just wanted them to know it happened. Not sure if a smaller company like Grizzly would be better or worse than Hornady for a response.
I gotta tell you I'm really disappointed in both cartridges performance. One for not operating in a Glock (Really? Can't function in a Glock, a Glock!) and the other for poor external and terminal balistics. Great video though Sam, enjoyed it...
Thanks. The Glock 41 is the least reliable Glock I know of, other people who have them state this too. What I've discovered is that because this is a thin slide Glock in a full size caliber, it tends to prefer standard pressure ammo. While I do often run +P ammo fine usually, when there is a malfunction it's usually with +P ammo.
I do realize that you have had continual problems with that particular gun, to me it just reinforces the dependability of a good quality revolver for bear defense if you are on your own in the back country if you don’t also have a rifle with you. And your malfunctions were when you were warm, dry, dominant hand, a good grip, and not under stress. I’d rather have six extremely dependable shots than a dozen that may have malfunctions.
You must be thinking of someone else. I have not had continual problems with this gun ever. When I tried to do a 10mm conversion, I had problems. This grizzly ammo is the first malfunction I have had all year, and other years it's about a 99.5% reliability rate. Not sure where you came up with what you said.
@ Seen it in TWO of your videos with multiple malfunctions each time. I’d call that “continual” on a defensive handgun that you are counting on to save your life. Not a problem on a range, doing ammo comparisons, or when hunting. Quite a different story for the one tool between you and being a bear’s lunch.
@@markkravig7410 You must have coincidentally picked two different videos, a year or more apart because I will go a year at a time with zero malfunctions in my Glock, taking note of how many times I get malfunctions, it's like at most 1 in 500 rounds that malfunction. Either you are thinking of someone else, or you don't have the same definition of continual that I have or you are experiencing the Mandela effect for some reason.
At almost 80 and still carrying a handgun I must compliment you on your videos.
Every one I have viewed shows a true understanding of what handguns and what the myriad mass of different ammunition available can do.
Whether it's a chunk of baloney, gel, fiber board or denim the visuals hammer home the pluses and the minuses of each caliber, handgun and cartridge.
Your calm and pleasant demeanor makes your video more like a conversation with the viewer.
My forty plus years of shooting and reloading taught me one thing, there is always something to learn.
Thanks for the time you have devoted instructing people interested in the world of shooting.
Something funny repeating itself. In December 2022, I did a video of .357 Sig VS .45 ACP+P Grizzly ammo, same .45 ACP ammo. In that video I got about the same velocity, and the SAME level of unreliability in my Glock 41. In that video I got trolled to death about how my Glock 41 "never runs right", which was false, so I compiled a video showing the past 6 months of testing with my Glock 41 running totally reliably. That link is here: th-cam.com/video/SHtsI-4ml7k/w-d-xo.html
THEN, I ran this Glock pistol for two more years nearly flawlessly, no one ever said anything about it....then TWO YEARS later I run the same Grizzly ammo, get the same unreliability and people start up again with "that pistol NEVER runs reliably", so I then post a video showing every shot in my Glock 41 from Jan 1st 2024 till December 17th 2024 with zero malfunctions in the Glock until I tested this ammo. Link here: th-cam.com/video/2dHL8rE7m-M/w-d-xo.html
So my point of this comment, was to basically reach out to anyone out there who might tell me why people are this way. Is there a psychiatrist or psychologist in my subscribers who can explain why people are doing this or why this Mandela effect keeps happening? It's getting really annoying and I am at a loss for an explanation. My only thought is that 4 years ago I tried to do a 10mm conversion with this Glock 41 and it never ran right, so people are remembering that and then remembering it wrong as if those malfunctions were in the stock .45 ACP pistol?
i'm at a loss and it's going to drive ME nuts until I understand what is going on psychologically, because I don't think a day goes my that someone doesn't watch a video where I test .45 ACP and comment "that gun never runs right" if it happens to be the 1 in 20 video where I get ONE malfunction with it in the entire video. Someone explain this phenomenon please - thanks in advance.
I think the explanation could be cognitive dissonance.
Some people might find it disturbing to think of the possibility of a non user-induced malfunction putting their autoloader out of action at a moment 9f great need, too disturbing to just rationally break down the possibility and formulate strategies or solutions to mitigate, so instead they (probably at a subconscious level) rationalize the other direction and say to themselves, "that doesn't happen."
Now, because the video footage demonstrates that it can and does in fact happen, then the rationalization needs to go a step further in order to eliminate the dissonance between the belief and the evidence. So that further rationalization will probably take the form of someone, who doesn't like Glocks, saying "Oh, it's a Glock, that's why. My [insert other brand here] never malfunctions."
On the other hand, if such type of person does like Glocks, or they intuit that the principle being demonstrated as going to apply to their other autoloaders as well, then the rationalization comes down to, "Oh, it's him. It's a user induced malfunction."
I never ran Grizzly through my G30, but everything else runs fine through it. Except for some reason cheapo Armscor ammo. I noticed that it was ever so slightly longer over all vs other cartridges. After doing a slight polish of the feed ramp. The problem went away. Plus not buying Armscor anymore.
Sam - thank you for the test. I'm one of those chaps that doesn't do Chrono or gel tests of the ammo I purchase....and I'm also one of those chaps that is averse to being eaten by grizzlies! 😂😂😂
That'd be 99.999% of shooters
This would be a GREAT video to show anyone who asks "why bother using a chrono?" MAN - that 45 is delivering some serious power - the power factor is on par with 45 Super...
The real lesson here is Grizzly ammo is questionable
I can get some Grizzly 90gr HP 357Sig ammo that has a velocity of 1800 fps and 700 ft. lbs. of energy but Grizzly ammo doesn't have a proven QC record.
Grizzly Cartridge has a good reputation; but they may be slipping. I hope not. But this was really bad.
I'd have to track that lot number on the 44 and find out when it was loaded. That's like either a mistake on the powder measuring part of the operation, or a worker screwed up.
Filmed October 29th 2024
Thanks! I'm curious how much the cylinder gap affects the barrel length ratio between revolvers and autoloaders.
Just a random question, I dig your style, dude. Edit: ooh, and does the forcing cone even count? Obviously the chamber on the autoloader doesn't count. Again, just random thoughts.
Sam's sails sunk when he found out that wasn't .44 special but rather .43 Touched! Sam your Xmas Gifts should be arriving next few days. I hope everyone enjoys the 6 or so tests I think you will be able to make out of it all, albeit low round count vids.
Nice!
Cool vid, as usual. Lots of no-nonsense action and useful commentary.
Yeah, that lot of .44Spl needs to be reported to Grizzly. That is totally uncharacteristic of their loadings. I've shot their stuff for several years, and they usually kill it.
That's some impressive 45 acp
Sam, you have the absolute BEST ammo testing channel I've seen. You're doing great work. Keep it up.
You might want to contact Grizzly ammo about those shells. They may want to check on that entire lot. The next higher weight of spring on the Glock might improve function.
After seeing the big name ammo companies have been loading the 45 acp compared to the 9mm and 40 it was very refreshing to see what a 45 loaded properly can do. Thanks for the video and i really hope you can find a lot more ammo in 45 that is worth resting. Perhaps video onwhat can be done when you can reload the 45 acp
The spam bots were the first to post. Ridiculous. Thanks for the great content
Hi gun Sam. Another awsome video. Im using your video for medicine for my soul. I've been very busy with a old mother that needs assisted living,but refuses help. Typical Pennsylvania mountain people. Tough as wild cats, but every one gets old. Both cartridge I love.i absolutely love my Colt 1911 45 acp.and 44 spl out of my ruger super Blackhawk hunter revolver. Both work. And well.we'll. I carry my 1911 alot feel very well protected from anything. God bless merry Christmas. 😊😊
very good testing videos you produce, thanks.
Hell yeah been waiting to see grizzley 45 +p get tested.
Good vid. One more reason I "roll my own".
Grizzly is one for two on this test. The 45 is very good, and the 44 is not so much. Enjoy your work, Sam. Thanks.
Thanks Sam great test! That 45acp is impressive, Grizzly must have shot the 44special through a rifle to get their velocity numbers😂
I doubt it lol. With the powder puff charges they used, a rifle would probably make it even slower than a handgun by the time it fought all that friction.
That's the WORST ratio of rated-to-actual velocity on ammo I've ever seen :(
Grizzly must have chronographed that 44 special out of the Joker's revolver
I hate to say anything bad about a US company making ammo, but Grizzy has a spotty reputation for sure.
I love all your videos! You should bring back the “Jug-Or-Not” box for an ole blast from the past vid!
Looking forward to the response from Grizzly Ammo!
Good show!!
I would be ashamed if I were Grizzly. Like you said, most people trust what the box says. I couldn’t in good conscience sell 1 box of .44 Special to anyone if I were Grizzly. Stuff like this is what ruins your business Grizzly. That’s some of the worst ammo I’ve seen.
So, it's started....several comments on how I am making my Glock jam, how my pistol is junk, how I need to learn how to shoot, etc etc etc. So, I went back, compiled a video of every single shot of .45 ACP that I have released this calendar year, every single shot from a released video in 2024 - and this Grizzly ammo was the FIRST malfunction I have had all year. For some reason, people remember reality differently. You can see how annoying it is for me with people telling me I need to fix my pistol, how I need to swap springs and magazine springs when the reason for my Glock malfunctions in this video is obvious. th-cam.com/video/2dHL8rE7m-M/w-d-xo.html
It was clear to me the slide velocity was too high for it to function.
@@thaknobodi Agree. This is one of those times when I think you really do need a stiffer recoil spring. Actually, I think that ammo is just plain loaded too hot. 230 grain at 950 to 980 is max for 45 acp to function properly and not bang up a good gun.
Sam, you are always going to have nagging comments from keyboard wanna-bes who probably have never fired a real gun in their lives. Just ignore them and don't feed the trolls. The rest of us know you know what you're doing.
@@CeltKnight I like to investigate stuff like this. It may seem like feeding the trolls, but honestly it does the opposite. I get non stop trolls, then I make a pinned comment proving them wrong, they stop. If I replied to them directly, it might feed them.
@@GunSam - Fair point. Obviously you know what you're doing, brother. Great channel, and VERY good shooting. As always, I enjoy your content and I do like it when you show up the whiners. ;)
I stopped buying grizzly ammo after a similar experience with their 357mag ammo a few years ago were my friends 4.5” gun averaged just a hair over 1100fps with what was supposed to be a full power a 125grain round
I’d say the 44 spl ammo should be replaced and try the test again.
Agreed
Ditto, do it over please.
@@leewitte4700 I'm not buying more of it
I honestly think that the .45 ACP was unreliable because it was overloaded. Nearly 1100 fps. from a 230 grain projectile is .45 Super territory. The .44 Special was polar opposite! Anyway...thanks for sharing!👍🙏
Nah, he's had problems with that one for years
Contrast this with a guy that's carefully loaded up hot .45acp and fired it in his 1911 platforms, up in .45 Super territory and with 250gr cast loads, firing THOUSANDS of them with minimal modifications with no issues.
It's the Glock, not the load.
@@exothermal.sprocket Minimal? Maybe, but the modifications are necessary to use the higher pressure .45 Super ammunition safely. I personally would not use such ammunition in a poly framed pistol at any rate, but marketing .45 ACP ammunition that is clearly loaded as .45 Super is unethical at the least.
@@hillbillyscholar8126 Minimal. 20 lb spring, Wilson shock buffer, Ed Brown hammer. That's it.
250gr, average 1190 fps. Nearly 6000 rounds of the heavy stuff. No broken stuff on it.
You curious, type in Stuck Case.
@@exothermal.sprocket Lets see here....45 Super shows a 230 grain bullet at 1100 fps and .460 Rowland shows a 230 grain bullet at 1320 fps. You claim 1190 fps from a 250 grain .45 ACP with a 20 lb. recoil spring? Nah...that is not the case. I don't believe it. But whatever, you do you.
That’s the weakest .44 special factory ammunition I have ever seen.
Yeah, It seems they were just plain loaded wrong.
That's called a mistake, not anything Grizzly would approve of.
Most factory 44 spl ammo is loaded pretty mild. That's too bad.
@@johnndavis7647 No, it's a faulty product, not just a low load. You don't advertise 200+ fps faster on the box and deliver .32 S&W velocity.
@@exothermal.sprocketlol no kidding. Even the old green-and-yellow box, Remington 246 gr. LRN was hotter than this. Obviously a mistake.
Grizzly has some splainin to do
I don't use Grizzly Ammunition. While it is usually excellent quality, you never know what will be in the box. I tried a box of the .357 Magnum 200 grain lead flat nose gas check. The ammo performed very well, but the bullets had no gas checks on them. If I pay for gas checks, I want gas checks.
glad to see you use 44 anemic
Gun Sam I spent 18 years in Alaska. And I have a grizzly hide here in Pennsylvania. I kilt it in 1996 behind gunsite mountain with my marlin 45-70. It smoked him. All legal. God bless😊
That .44 Special was so low powered that I don't think even a 6" barrel would boost it anywhere near the quoted velocity of 970 FPS.Maybe a carbine might get it near that but then the lower power and the extra friction in a carbine barrel may actually make it exit slower than the 650 FPS mark.
I ran a .357 sig barrel in a G22 for 5 or 6 years, then it would jam exactly like that on .40. I replaced the recoil spring under the barrel and it went back to working fine.
Mike Rintoul owns Grizzly, I was emailing him a couple years ago - I had a batch of .40 Grizzly that was too hot to stabilize, it would keyhole and tumble. None of my .40 barrels could spin it right. He had long conversations with me about it, so he will likely respond if you contact him.
Those .44Spc loads are so slow you can actually see them hit the plate.
Hey Sam, can you test Super Vel's 45 ACP 185 grain +P JHP and their 45 ACP 160 grain +P SCHP.
Sounds like an issue at the factory on that run of 44 special. Hope the manufacturer sees this.
The .45 ACP +P DELIVERS!
Perfect in a S&W 625.
Guess i won't be buying any Grizzly revolver ammo.
GS. Good and very interesting video. I have some Fiocchi .44 Special Cowboy Action 210 Gr rounds that they rate at 750 fps. If they were 240 Gr that might put them in the mid 600's fps. I have not chronographed them so don't know if the numbers are real. Thanks again and take care.
I just bought a HiPoint JHP45 to test my 45 Super loads in. I don't want to beat up the Springfield NM. I think your light slide is out running the magazine. That Grizz 45 is legit for sure. I hope they are watching to respond about the 44 Special.
What the Griz ... good 45
So are you thinking that the 44s could be just a bad batch of ammo
Grizzly usually tests pretty well. Kind of a third to BB and UW ammo. Plus I shoot different types of hot BB and UW ammo out of my G30 with zero issues. Oddly my G30 doesn’t like Armscor ball ammo until I polished the feed ramp. Now my G29 doesn’t like 220 grain hardcast, but likes the 200 grain from UW. And everything else I’ve shot through it.
Oh man I hope he does the 200 grain hard cast 357 mag from grizzly
Man, That .45 Ammo is Hot. I wants it, I Needs It, my Precious . Maybe it's loaded for 1911's? Saw some grizzly ammo for the .41 Magnum, now i'm happy with that brand after seeing your video.
Would a heavier Wolff recoil spring help that Glock cycle a bit slower to increase reliability?
From a practical standpoint, the 45ACP ammo is easier to find than the 44 Special.
I’ve never been in grizzly areas but my pick would be a 45-70, 338WM, or 375H&H, or something with similar thumping abilities!
The only handgun that I’d want to carry for grizzlies would be a BFR in 45-70 because it’d match the MR 1895 that I’d be carrying! And while I’m inclined towards a usable load in the BFR, I’d like something more like the “Hand of God” in the rifle! Again, I’ve never been to bear country but I’m leaning towards heavier hitters rather than comfortable to shoot at the range, lol!
We need the bologna test for ole times great video thanks
I can't believe the 44 Spl was so weak. You would get better performance out of the old Remington G&W box 125gr 38 Spl+P.
An interesting comparison video. Too bad the .44 was so wimpy. I wonder if the factory had a problem with their machinery. Wish we could have seen what it did at rated velocity.
As I often say about your 45 ACP videos. No substitute for mass. Today's EDC will be a S&W 4586 DAO single stack w/Underwood 45 ACP +P 255g hardcast @925fps
Wow, maybe they load the 44specials to be safe in older revolvers, but they shouldn’t advertise 3-4 hundred fps more than actual, that’s crazy
It can't be from that. Even a 44 Special loaded with blackpowder, like the original loading from 1907, should be doing over 700 ft./s. out of Gun Sam's 4" S&W.
There is an old article by Mike Cumpston you can find online where he shoots bona fide original 44 Special out of a 4" Mountain Gun and chronos it. The box of ammo was manufactured sometime between 1913 and 1916, and even with those antiques, he got 709 ft./s. average. When he replaced the 80+ year old blackpowder in some of the cases with equivalent loading of Goex, he averaged 762 ft./s. Also, these were the original, 246 gr. LRN bullets, so they were 6 grains, or 2.5% greater, weight than the Grizzly Cartridge bullets.
Even sticking at SAAMI spec for 44 Special - which is low precisely because of concerns over people chambering.them in antique pistols - the cartridge is capable of developing much, much more than what these Grizzly Cartridges did.
Case in point are HSM's "Cowboy Action, 240 gr. LSWC." Those are advertised by HSM as 845 ft./s. out of a 6.5" barrel, and they are clocked by people as doing 684 to low 690s out of a GP100 3". Even out of my Charter Bulldog, which has only a 2.5" barrel, they are in the 680s.
Even with low pressure loads, the 44 Special should be getting an extra 15 to 38 ft./s. per inch, depending how fast the barrel geometry and specific powder, so with a 4" you'd expect 700 ft./s.
Additionally, there's the whole thing with Grizzly advertising 950 ft./s., which they're most likely using a 6" barrel, which would mean it should be getting well over 800 ft./s. in a 4".
Anyway you dice it, whatever they shipped out to Gun Sam just looks like poorly made ammo with their 44 Special JHP.
PS: To hammer the point further, keep in mind that something such as the HSM 240 gr. LSWC is loaded to be shot out of anything. It's on the low end of what can be done with the cartridge, even within the feeble SAAMI spec for 44 Special. The cartridge can be loaded to develop 850+ ft./s. with a 250 gr. bullet even out of a snub barrel, and still be at low pressure.
For example, a popular handload for 44 Special is 7.5 grains Unique under a 250 gr. Keith bullet: that can clock 870 ft./s. out of the Charter Bulldog, with the short barrel.
That's a massive disappointment in the 44 special load. 300fps below rated fps out of that length weapon is inexcusable.
@@VS-ff4ez yeah. If a 0.5" barrel existed, I could see it. Not 4.25"
Yeah, No Grizzly Ammo for me, Wildly inconsistent. Thank you for the excellent video.
Excellent offering in 45. Absolutely disappointing with 44 Special. Grizzly should replace this box
I'd be contacting Grizzly and asking WTF!!! 🤬
👍👍
I've never seen a 230 grain 45 ACP +P load this hot. I suspect the pressure is well above the accepted norm of 23,000 PSI and closer to the 28,000 PSI of the 45 Super. I'm glad the cases held up. Were there any signs of flattened or punctured primers, backed out primers, or cracked case mouths?
Almost seems like misloaded or mislabeled ammo with the 44 special as it would never get to 950 no matter the gun
After the Bear ate him, he was obviously happy even with a few .43 caliber holes lodged in his fat, so he was taking a walk in the woods and a Rabbit linked up to join along. After awhile, the Bear had to take a kaka in the woods from all that dirty human meat. He looked over and asked the Rabbit if he ever had trouble with kaka sticking to his fur. The Rabbit said no, so the Bear wiped his butt with the Rabbit!
Replace that grizzly ammo for sure, something's not right.
Side note: 44mag vs 45 Super when? 😊
Factory 45 Super is very underpowered than what it can be hand loaded to so it wouldn't be fair.
Already been there, done that a couple years ago. Never ran reliably.
I was thinking about buying the 44, but that really sucks !
Hey, Sam. When you used to do your 10mm conversion of the G41, did you change the extractor as well? I enjoy your videos!
Yes, went with a 22 lb recoil spring and 10mm extractor. Never worked, I tried every possible combination of spring and extractor and it never ran.
@@GunSam Ok, good info. My theory is that the reduced weight of the 41 slide was probably by too much to make that conversion doable. I think I would have liked the 41 more if they had made it with the width of the 21 slide, just making it longer like they did with the G40. Never made sense to me why they made the 41 slide narrower than the 21. I had a 41 for a bit, but preferred shooting the 21.
Can you test grizzly cartridges 260 grain WFNGC 44 Special?
@@DinoNucciSure i’ll send him 200 boxes, you happy?
...I think they owe you another box of .44s...that is sad.
44spl video is making me want another Bulldog.Wish I kept my other one
I get higher velocity out of a 2.5 charter arms bulldog with some really tame hand loads.They owe you another box of ammo.
Gun Sam i hunt with 44mag hard cast bullets hand loads. They do not expand. But completely penetrate through game. Through personal experience. My hard cast handloads are very deadly game getters. Im shooting through my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 7 1/2" barrel. They are very accurate.
Gun Sam try a 1911 colt. I'll bet mine would run. It likes winchester xtp 230 hollow points at plus p. . And very accurate. You can tell hot ammo.😊
Grizzly gave you some .44 Russian loads!
Would love to see the grizzly 180 grain 10mm
Very good test.
I was hoping for a close comparison. Those are polar opposite. That's one hot 45 and one anemic 44. I like that 45 performance though, that's 10mm energy! Too bad it wouldn't function for you.
I prefer the Federal 44 cal ammo over others, in magnum or specials.
That's ridiculous, you can get better velocity with a black powder revolver.
You're slide is outrunning your mag spring, change you mag spring.
I would have thought they would have come in equal, but what do I know.
Grizzly has/had a 90grn. XTP 357sig. It was ludicrous speed and bullet grenade time for the gel.
I think it was close to 700ft.lbs energy. 😮
( now I'm gonna have to find the test again "arizona air gunner" I think is the tester.
@@almaadams3631 I tested it
With normal ammo, they are similar in ballistics
interesting opposite results from your recent Federal ammo test
Its a .44 extra special
Great video. Grizzly needs to have the remaining cartridges examined at their own expense to find out what is going on. This is a gross fail on the production line. 300fps error the other way could blow a gun up. Also a jacketed bullet at 650fps is potentially a squib hazard.Particularly if some guy were to fire this in his lever action as a reduced load there is a good chance it doesnt exit the barrel, in fact I'd almost bet on that being the outcome. If you dont want to send them back Id at least pull a bullet and weigh the charge and include this information and the velocity report to grizzly
Sheesh, don’t these ammo companies have any QC? That’s awful performance from the 44 special. Makes you wonder how many batches are out there that aren’t even close to what’s rated on the box.
thats 45 super velocitys
Only bought one box of Grizzly ammo .44 mag. One bullet was seated upside down. Obviously not a quality ammo.
I had that happen one time with Hornady Critical Defense .38 Special+P, upside down bullet, looked like a wadcutter. I emailed them, and was basically called a liar. Then they started acting weird and offered to send me a hat as if I was trying to get something from them. I replied that I just wanted them to know it happened. Not sure if a smaller company like Grizzly would be better or worse than Hornady for a response.
👍😊
Grizzly…maybe koala
Wow 45acp +p is right on i say 45super area. In that 44spl may what call grizzly give them the lot numbers tell about ur test in speeds.
The cost of specialty you might only but one box and not practice with it.
I gotta tell you I'm really disappointed in both cartridges performance. One for not operating in a Glock (Really? Can't function in a Glock, a Glock!) and the other for poor external and terminal balistics. Great video though Sam, enjoyed it...
Thanks. The Glock 41 is the least reliable Glock I know of, other people who have them state this too. What I've discovered is that because this is a thin slide Glock in a full size caliber, it tends to prefer standard pressure ammo. While I do often run +P ammo fine usually, when there is a malfunction it's usually with +P ammo.
The grip of your ear muffs on your ears i think is causing glock to choke up brother...😊
I do realize that you have had continual problems with that particular gun, to me it just reinforces the dependability of a good quality revolver for bear defense if you are on your own in the back country if you don’t also have a rifle with you.
And your malfunctions were when you were warm, dry, dominant hand, a good grip, and not under stress.
I’d rather have six extremely dependable shots than a dozen that may have malfunctions.
You must be thinking of someone else. I have not had continual problems with this gun ever. When I tried to do a 10mm conversion, I had problems. This grizzly ammo is the first malfunction I have had all year, and other years it's about a 99.5% reliability rate. Not sure where you came up with what you said.
@ Seen it in TWO of your videos with multiple malfunctions each time. I’d call that “continual” on a defensive handgun that you are counting on to save your life.
Not a problem on a range, doing ammo comparisons, or when hunting. Quite a different story for the one tool between you and being a bear’s lunch.
@@markkravig7410 You must have coincidentally picked two different videos, a year or more apart because I will go a year at a time with zero malfunctions in my Glock, taking note of how many times I get malfunctions, it's like at most 1 in 500 rounds that malfunction. Either you are thinking of someone else, or you don't have the same definition of continual that I have or you are experiencing the Mandela effect for some reason.
One is too hot and the other is too slow. Thanks for the warning and I'll pass. Grizzly owes you some explanation for both loads.
I think you have a bad glock 21
Test to VERIFY!
THANK YOU !