The Jagermech stands out on tabletop in my mind for one reason. I witnessed a player attempt to position his Jagermech on a high rock to get good field of fire. He failed his PSR on the dangerous ground, and fell on it's back. The ensuing damage punched through the paper thin rear armor, causing a crit, which detonated the ammo housed inside. No enemy fire was involved.
This literally made me laugh out loud. People claim that I'm too harsh to some of these mechs, in general I try to be generous, but some of them are yes, really that bad.
I had a Hollander do that in the PC game. I heard an explosion in the distance, and after the battle, Hollander parts were in the salvage. I never even saw the Mech.
It's like an Urbanmech, in so far as it has the same armour as the Urbanmech. But x3 times the ammunition. So it's like an Urbanmech, but if it could explode.
You wanna know the most bafflingly annoying flaw of the Jagermech, as an AA platform (at least in the original FASA design)? It can't torso twist, making tracking its intended targets (aircraft) significantly more difficult. The redesigns fix this flaw.
@@eddapultstab2078 You would think that one of the first things you'd consider in an anti-air platform is to ability to effectively engage aircraft. Sure, the Rifleman couldn't twist all the way around either, but that thing could flip its guns around to partly compensate for it. The inability to torso twist means that you can't effectively keep maneuvering aircraft engaged.
@@z3r0_35 which is why designing a warmachine is harder than it looks. The jeager mech suffers from, As tex calls it, teething troubles. It's anti air package is quite inferior to not only the rifleman but also the partisans quad ac 5s at the same weight(edit I meant 80 tons, my bad) at almost a third of the cost, which would be the real competition as a AA platform. Ironically, the rifleman, jeagermech, and partisan are all kallon industries designs. I think secretly, the jeagermech was intentionally marketed to Davion due to autocannon fever because DAKA.
Torso twist, or the lack there of, is often a very confusing thing. Several old designs lacked it but then put it back in at some unclear point in time. It's hard to tell what's more up to date and what to trust.
IS Rifleman - Where is my armor and heatsinks? IS Jagermech - Where is upgrades from the IS Rifleman? Rifleman IIC - Why am I living proof that second line battle mechs are often overlooked by my fellow clanners?
I can answer the question Davion wins with the Jagermech as Fire support/antiaircraft by fighting in RCTs. So in a battle where a regiment of mechs 3 regiments of vehicles five regiments of infantry two aerospace fighter wings and a battalion of artillery. In a fight at that scale Jagermechs as fire support tend to survive as there are just too many things to shoot at then the Jagermech. It’s a large scale Battletech.
"Gentlemen, how do we improve the Rifleman?" "What if we remove everything actually good about it?" "That's so stupid, it just might work..." It didn't work.
@@BigRed40TECH maybe they won because nobody thought to include countermeasures against these madhat mech designs in their combat plans and therefore never prepared for them. Mechwarrior: "Commander! My battle computer's not giving me a firing solution against the enemy Jaegermech!" Commander: "That's because nobody's fool enough to use one in combat." Mechwarrior: "Well I'm looking at a fool nobody right now!"
@@BigRed40TECH Hmmm... could it be that no one takes these mechs as salvage? That would allow them to salvage them themselves after each battle, and this field larger armies of bad mechs. Perhaps the jagermech is relatively good if you have 3 of them shooting at each enemy mech from maximum range...
Look, this mech is generally reviled but I love it. I had a character in a MechWarrior campaign that used one like an Omni mech, buying several and making the arms modular with different weapons systems. One fight I may have been using a couple LB10xs, another fight I might have a huge bevy of machine guns, another would see me loading an AC20 and SRM2s. My opponents never saw the same mech twice in a row, and I went undefeated in 7 fights before my unit had to actually go back to work. Good memories of this Mech, only love for it.
One of my most favorite long range mechs! It's just too bad my ai allies in Mechwarrior 5 aren't smart enough to actually also use it effectively without getting both arms blown off after every mission 😤😤😤
Yeah, without TTRulezAI they just try to brawl with it. Modded to carry 4x AC-5s, however, and piloted by a competent AI or a pilot, it's a beast of a fire support platform.
The two glaring issues with the Jagermech and this often crops up on the table top game and the Battletech tactics game, is the fact it's a 65ton mech with the armour of a 45 ton mech, moving at the speed of a Heavy. It is slow, poorly armoured and rarely are battlefields or deployments are favourable to this mech and when they are favourable, all it would take is medium armed with PPCs on the opposite side of the open field to take the mech out in a couple of shots to its legs. I got one of these early on in HBS Battletech and it took extreme levels of tactical genius to stop it getting owned by the AI mechs while simultaneously trying to bring it's tremendous firepower to bare to core target marked light and medium mechs. You want at *least* 8 Hexes between this mech and the opponent mechs at all times and prey the opponents don't have more AC2s and PPCs than you do. If they have gauss rifles, just don't bother fielding this thing, the gauss rifle will strip it's armour in a single shot while simultaneously punching through criting internals. If you want good fire support, bring an Archer or a Catapult instead; Same weight class, better mechs for the job and they can safely hide behind things too. The Jager is only good verses Aerotech fighters and you rarely encounter those even on the table top.
I REALLY love the missile version of this baby. The JM6-A variant. Sure, it's made from reinforced tissue paper... but good luck exploiting that, when 30 missiles a round are slamming into your torso from behind terrain. And if you have direct line range advantage, you can pelt with the AC2s, too. With proper placement and support, it's a nasty moving turret that can just reach out and touch basically the entire field. Even so... the Awesome LRM variants basically do the exact same tactic, but for just above 1 million C-Bills more you get a large laser instead of the AC2s AND more armor AND a battle fist AND a small laser AND almost TRIPLE the amount of heat sinks, so unless you're on a budget, you probably should go for that one. And that's the oldest variant, the AWS-8R. The still pretty ancient AWS-8T variant has TWO large lasers, and still almost all of the above. Still... as long as its used for the sort of garrison slash anti-air slash fire-support duty it was intended for, I do think the Jagermech isn't bad, per say. It's just... a very humble moving turret, that was commanded to go smack people in the face way too much, because The Inner Sphere lost their dang minds for several hundred years, and barely had sticks to smack each other with before The Clans forced them to at least partially get their act together.
I actually have s softspot for the Jagermech, it was my first heavy mech in the HBS game and it worked well, a little rejigging and extra armour does wonders
MOTIVE HITS. MOTIVE HITS. MOTIVE HITS. Yeah its got some insignificant anti-mech firepower, but this thing has the RANGE and can stay relatively cool while crippling hovercraft, tanks, vtol etc Don't ask the thing to do stuff it doesn't want to do, and it'll treat you right ❤
Visually, the Jager is one of my all-time favourite mechs, especially the excellent MWO art. Whenever I actually use one in say the HBS Battletech game, I *always* remove the AC2s, add a bunch of armor, and put in two more MLs. It's not flashy, but at least it works!
Ah, the JagerMech. A Mech on the 'light' side of being a Heavy Mech. And one that should have been made 10 tons heavier to allow for a better design overall. But, that is just my opinion.
The JM6-DD, the tech upgrade that made this a clan fighting mech. They dumped an XL engine into the design... and somehow squandered all of the weight savings without addressing the mech's biggest issue: the thin armor. 2 tons to upgrade the AC5's to ultra. 2 tons to upgrade the medium lasers to pulse. 1 ton of extra AC2 ammo. This mech could of gratefully taken 5 additional tons of armor and been better than it was even without weapon upgrades. If you truly need to make this mech use next gen weapons then strip out the AC2s for ER Large Lasers and dump in 10 double heat sinks in that XL engine. Or rip out all of the ACs and replace them with Gauss Cannons like the JM6-DG.
@@BigRed40TECH I'm just going to go into round 2 on this rant, because its suppose to be an effective mech against the Clans. Really? Seriously how? The AC2 has the same range characteristic as the ER Large Laser and the clan version hits 5 times harder than an AC2. Sure, it runs hot but Clan double heat sinks can easily manage the heat. ER PPC has even better range and damage for only slightly more heat and weight. The Inner Sphere can't compete in long range shootouts with the Clans. The Clans just use better ranged weapons. All around better. The main factor that lets IS mechs compete with Clan mechs is using terrain to avoid long range engagements. Once you get within 9 hexes the IS can fight effectively. The IS is still at a ton for ton disadvantage, but this is as even with Clan technology as you are going to get. Standing a Jaggermech or anything else that is a dedicated long range poker up against a Clan Mech is just asking to have it cored long before the opposing Clan mech even feels threatened. Trying to use IS pulse weapons against Clans just seems unlikely to be effective as well, unless you have superior movement and lots of cover. The range disparity is just bad.
@@Chris_Sizemore ambushes are what you can do with it. Have it be bait, with it keeping their attention as long as possible leading them into a city or (preferably) a mesa.
Honestly, about half of the 3050 updates were just bad. The tech was applied in a manner in keeping with illiterate children or primitives given a box of new toys. With that being the best, yeah, thats part of why the Clans went through the best tech of the IS.
@@tenchraven Clans were also predominantly fighting non-upgraded units. Most of the turning points in the invasion were where the IS had numbers, elite warriors, and fully upgraded regiments. You're right though that many of the designs are pretty bad. Still, they were an upgrade over whatever was previously being used, with exceptions (eg Grasshopper).
Jager. We solved the poor battlefield staying power of the Rifleman! And all it cost was an incredible flaw in battlefield staying power. Inner Sphere progress at its finest.
I love the JagerMech in MechWarrior 5! Sure, it isn't that strong for its tonnage and there are plenty of better options to put in your hanger, but taking the default JM6-S and removing the AC/5s and adding two more AC/2s, dropping the medium lasers for small lasers, adding a total of 4 tons of ammo and now having a max of 10 tons of armor while never having to stop firing is oddly satisfying, especially when a group of Warriors spawn in and start flying over to my Lance.
I did the same. limiting the AI's armament options seems to help them too. I park that thing on a hill in a warzone mission and the armor on larger mechs melt.
@@TheInsomniaddict I've done something similar on the A variant before. Drop both AC/2s for light rifles and spent the saved tonnage on more LRM ammo, fire control systems for both LRM-15s, and upgraded the medium lasers to medium pulse lasers!
Even on tabletop I feel like the Jager would be better served by quad AC/2 and more armor. Compared to a pair of AC/10 you're doing less than half damage but with Medium Range modifiers when the 10s would be at long or ineligible to fire at all. It's also twice as many chances at criticals if someone else has done you the favour of putting holes in the enemy's armor.
Everything you've said is regrettably true. The Suns fell down on this one, a rarity for them. Valkyrie? Sturdier Wasp with long-rage capability, good design. Enforcer? A burlier Clint that can run and gun against heavier mechs, good design. Hatchetman? A ground-breaking Medium brawler, good design. The Jagermech? Inferior version of Rifleman that could lose a 1 on 1 duel with a Valkyrie, bad design. It was one of the few mech designs my old merc unit would not consider using.
For a mech that appears in Capellan space it mysteriously doesn't appear in my forces , the Imperialist Davions can keep them . At least a Blackjack can defend itself and has more armour
@@mikewaterfield3599 Hell yeh Space Communism all the way , we have universal health , universal education and pensions . And if that doesn't persuade you then we have Plasma Rifles , Guided Missile Artillery , Stealth Armour to persuade you .
@@mathewkelly9968 ah huh, that "universal education" didn't teach you space commies not to get your teeth kicked in by every other power including periphery states cause you guys apparently could not read the "no trespassing" signs to your galactic south. Even five hundred years in the future some people still have yet to figure out. communism only looks good on paper never in practice.
I managed to solve the armor problem with my MW 5 Merc company's refit of the mech. Twin LB 10X ACs, Twin Light rifles and twin MP lasers. Up gunned and up armored but carries a very low amount of ammo especially for the light rifles. It doesn't have the endurance for missions that drag on and has shorter range than stock. Over all,mixed results,sweeps away lights, mediums and aircraft but has trouble with mechs of the same weight or greater.
Great stuff as always, the Jager is a...curious egg. I mean you can sit up the back and plink away with the AC's at long range, rationing that you've got enough ammunition to basically take shots regardless of the chances. But this all falls apart if you take a hit, because this thing is a glass cannon.
I know it's not great but I have a special place in my heart for the Jaegermech, especially its variants that add RACs. A dual RAC/2 Jaeger might not do a lot of damage per shot, but oh boy, can it fire a lot of shots. That said, that's only from a BTA3062 standpoint, which operates differently from the tapletop.
It’s a shame I really don’t like this mech, because my god I love looking at it. It’s boxy and intimidating. I connected with the franchise with the Battletech PC game and I would love to field them in good faith in that, because it looks so good, and I actually like AC/2 in that because they can be lethal in quads (especially UAC/2s) for headshots if I want to do some shopping. But if it gets hit, it normally dies quickly. I can see why it’s designed like this from a game design perspective - something that slams the target with so many AC shots at that weight class would be horrifically unbalanced. It’s a glass cannon (almost literally!) But in-universe? WHAT WERE THEY EVEN THINKING?!? WHY DO THIS?
Honestly, I don't see the point of AC/2s or UAC/2s, unless you really don't have the tonnage or heat to spare for anything better. However, LB-2 Xs are great for making VTOLs miserable, and Light AC/2s, once those become available, are light enough that it's actually sorta worth considering using them on some mechs.
@@z3r0_35 yeah, I’m a newbie to the TTG, but in the Battletech computer game they are excellent (I’ve found, anyway) for sniping enemy ‘mechs in the face and walking away at the end with some pretty decent salvage, if you are lucky enough to pull it off. I’ve had some minor success with them in MW5, too. They seem to be a weapon that the computer game struggles to match up with the TTG, though; I agree, they seem a bit pointless in that - they perform relatively well on the PC, which feels like a mismatch. In the computer game they seem adequate - on the tabletop they are pretty much worthless. That said, I should clarify that sniping enemies in the face with a lucky headshot is only really reliably possible in large numbers, and that is *all* I have found that they are good at. That’s why four UAC/2s on a jaegermech works pretty well - you have shot saturation, which massively improves the chances of pulling it off. As you say, they are rather rubbish weapons overall; they just don’t do enough for the tonnage. Even then, they are on a mech with spider-levels of armour, so you have to be incredibly careful!
I only played a Jagermech once at a friend's house. It was a variant which was basically an advanced tech rifleman with two er large lasers and rwo ultra ac-5.
You missed the critical role the jagermech fills for the entire inner Shpere: as an example for other mech-designers how not to do it. This thing has no place at the frontline imo. The rifleman isn't perfect, but at least useable, unlike this contraption of ecplosives held together by detcord and ricepaper.
I remember using it for a few missions in the Battletech video game. It was often underwhelming and didn't pull its own weight (literally). It was also very vulnerable if it got hit at all. I used it because I felt like I needed a heavier mech, but it was quickly replaced in my roster once I got something with more punch.
Honestly, if you go frankenmech on this thing, it's not the WORST mech imaginable. But... that's more because of its tonnage than anything it actually does.
I really wanted to like the Jagermech, but the only way to to make it good is customize the load out. I removed the ac2 and medium lasers in favor of 2 large lasers more heat sinks and armor
So you turned it into a slightly lighter rifleman II? It's a decent loadout all things considered, But why not just use the Rifleman II at that point? This comment is meant to be snarky, but all in good fun.
the jeagermech isn't that bad in concept. the real issue is designing it around 4 auto cannons. the biggest lvl1 upgrade is to replace the old cannons with 2 ac 10s and add armor from weight saved while improving damage. another good change is to replace the 5s with large lasers and adding heat sinks and armor to compensate. the base model is crap, I agree, but their is alot of room to customize.
Problem with the 2x AC10 is the same as the Rifleman variant that does the same: it attempts to "solve" its shortcomings by completely ditching its intended role and putting it in direct competition with mechs like the CPLT-K2 Catapult or other superior medium range direct fire support mechs.
@@EvillBob to be fair, the 65 ton chassis is one of trickier weights, in addition as I mentioned the mech suffers from too much auto cannons in my opinion, it needs to remove one set and put that tonnage elsewhere, missles, lasers and armor. I mean if you want really weird, their is quad ac 2s and you can put the extra tonnage to armor and ammo. Make it a turbo blackjack.
Design is clearly flawed as a Frontline mech, a role I believe, it was never intended to perform, as the urbanmech is a coffin on legs, in open terrain, the jagermech is a defence oriented mech, intended for guarding landing zones, HQ and so on. A very special purpose mech. I played the tabel top game for 10+ years, I never fielded it once.
What i see in these video series on this channel vs comments is Tabletop/Lore/Story vs what people can edit with Mechbay in Mechwarrior/Mechcommander games... depending on personal customization many Tabletop-Shit mechs can be not only good, but some even godly designs, and few of those Tabletop-Solid prized mechs in story and lore can show their mechbay limitations. In short ...if you can customize and make it work to degree you like it = mech is good ...many people can't or lack ideas and this is represented by Tabletop "Balance" and it's all fine and good building of setting, i'm just surprised is there no Mechbay for Tabletop or shit?
I would say mech customization in Btech proper is expensive. There aren't actually tons of custom mechs running around in every unit, typically only important people can afford to do it, unless we're tlaking Omni-mechs. My friends and I mostly play stock mechs, barring extended campaigns, because stock mechs are what is in Battletech 99.5% of the time. But people are free to play how they like. This channel approaches these designs with the idea that 99.5% of the units that walk out of the factory, are going to remain stock, indefinitely.
A purely AA and rearguard mech in my opinion, staying in the backlines protecting bases and landed dropships, not for the frontline in the slightest. But I would suspect it is the Bane of all VTOLS, Light Aerospace fighters, and Light bug mechs it will come come across in it's rearline duties
Except when it first released it couldn't twist it's torso. And it's so full of ammo that taking any damage is rolling the dice on becoming a sun on the ground.
From experince, bug mechs will take a Jagermech one on one. Sprint in, get inside the effective range of the ACs, and keep moving while you slap it apart. Stay to the sides and the rear and those poor MLs will never touch you.
No torso twist means it can struggle to hit air assets, and its armor is genuinely low enough that it has to be concerned about the VTOL it's supposed to be dealing with sauntering over to blow up its ammo.
Yeah I've always like the Jagermech, I love ACs, and if its used correctly its a solid machine. Only an idiot let's it get into close combat. Dump the lasers and add 2 tons of armor
I still say replacing the ac 5s with large lasers and using the free 4 tons per guns and ammo to heat sinks and armor is a better set up. it will have some minor heat issues but it would be much more survivable. also replacing all 4 with ac 10s is also better
Funnily enought, i got the JMS-6DD variant in MWO, gave him two UAC 20 and plenty of armor. Since any ennemy thought I was a long range plateforme with paper armor, they went close, specially light mech. Pulverising them was pretty satisfying. In other situation, positionning and staying behind friendly assault and heeavies is a pretty solid strat. Not a perfect mech, but he can be nice, even surprising, sometimes.
Im new to the Battletech universe with my only exposure being the video game with the cool Heavy Metal expansion cover. With that as my backstory, I must say this video saddens me. The Jagermech was my first heavy after 1 lucky headshot in that one story mission (cant recall the name). It has been with me ever since. While it was eventually phased out for significantly better mechs, it remains in my hangar for pure nostalgia. And it looks freaking cool ^.^
um later on in the timeline, there is a jagermech III, it solves some of the problems, with a different engine, that weights half a ton, less, and gets rid of the AC5s, replacing them with PCCs, not needing to have ammo, also saves weight allowing it to have 9 and a half tons of armor. also i think the different engine is faster, maybe, has a speed of 86.4km. it still is a XL engine tho so lost of the side torso would kill it, but it is an improvement. : /
About the best thing I've done with this is a variant with dual AC10/BFs. It's a murder machine. A second one has quad AC2s. Nice for fire support. But next to the Rifleman it lacks versatility. Also its arms get easily shot off. That's a problem. AND its armor, or lack thereof, and its lack of hitting power. It's an unworkable compromise inferior to the mech it's supposed to replace, which with a few tweaks can be turned into a terrifying opponent. Riflemen I hate fighting because they stand off at range and pelt you with Large Lasers or shells; Jagermechs can be destructive at close range(two of them shredded my Awesome once that way) but at range their singular lack of punch is telling. Also their wide torsos and easily seen cockpits are huge targets: the mech is effectively a walking bull's-eye. When facing multiple mechs, I tend to shoot them first.
For some reason I have always had a soft spot for these things. For context I have my "scout group" of an Omega and 5 Ares forming a level II so they are a bit lighter than normally preferred. As a dedicated AA or even extreme range annoyance they are great. Just be careful as harsh language will occasionally kill one...
I like the Jagermech for fire support though I keep this very, very far away from the frontline. Preferably with a bigger distraction to draw fire away from it. Preferably a Marauder II. Because I like to hear my ears bring when I pull the trigger on those Autocannons.
Lol tell us how you really feel, Red. Seriously though, this is an honest take on an objectively bad mech, and while you are harsh to the design, I think you're fair in all of your criticism. Keep up the good work.
700th like. I love the cockpit shields. In MW5 I own a rifleman and yeah,it over heats. I want a jaggermech just cauz. 5:34 looks like Jagger is just Urbanmechs crazy uncle.
I think the Jaegermech suffers mostly from the fact that light autocannon (ie, AC2s and AC5s) just plain suck. Too much weight and too little firepower in one package and the Jaegermech is carrying FOUR of these things. Even before the introduction of Double Heat Sinks and other advanced tech, the AC/2 and AC/5 are introtech's lemons. If the Jaegermech dropped all of its ACs for a pair of PPCs, it'd have 14 tons (plus whatever weight is freed up from the ammo) for heat sinks and extra armor. You'd get half decent protection and increased firepower while still being able to stay cool. I have to wonder what the designers were thinking when they designed the AC/2 and AC/5. In a design system where you have free heat sinks with every mech being heavy and cool running in no way compensates enough for doing so little damage. Video games solve the light firepower issue by giving the lighter ACs higher rates of fire, but that explicitly doesn't exist in TT where a "higher rate of fire" would just be a straight up damage buff, which in turn would make the AC's classification non-sensical..
There's an option rule set for Solaris VII duels that didn't catch on. Hexes were changed from 30m to 10, and likewise time was changed from 15s to 5. Light autocannons could fire every round other weapons couldn't. There's also a modern optional rule "Rapid Fire" which can allow mechs to take a gamble to get more shots out. Beyond that golden BBs especially in level 1 are very useful. Aerospace has to make a control roll in case of any hits while vehicle movement crits are common. Special ammo is also fairly useful and precision helps a lot for level 1 builds post SWs.
AC/2's get a bit better in combined arms... but not really on Mechs. A smallish Tank with a pair of these suckers can be pretty awkward to deal with, and damage is damage, especially if it's damage that goes to whatever wants it the least.
Consider a pair of AC/2 against an AC/10... the 2's medium range is long or out of reach for the 10. Dealing only 40% damage most turns balances out with the better weapon missing most shots outright. The weapons are right scary late in battles, where every hit against exposed structure is rolling for critical damage. You can't outposition an AC/2, whichever of your mechs is the most at risk is going to be peppered with hits. In tabletop I kind of feel like the AC/5 is the ugly duckling, with no decisive range advantage over much more damaging options like large lasers, PPCs, and AC/10. Ultra AC/5 does a lot to set that right of course.
@@jonbezeau3124 Agree. While the AC/2 probably has the most obvious weaknesses of the four, it has a decisive niche. The AC/5 is pretty plainly redundant. It is right in the middle of the competition between some of the most standard and competitive weapons in the game, and it really needs a lot of outside conditions to pull ahead. Even then, the AC/10 is usually still better in those conditions, unless extreme weight considerations are in play. The L Laser in particular, with some extra heat sinks does more damage, with better ranges, is more heat neutral overall, doesn't carry ammo, has fewer crit spots, and is STILL overall lighter. You really need a situation where the low absolute heat generation of the AC 5 matters, like on something with lots of jets and M or S lasers. That said, I do think the LBX 5 is probably my favorite LBX. Losing the big chunk of single target damage of the AC/20 defeats the entire point, and it's still a big loss for the AC10, and the LBX 2 is one of the most puzzling weapons I've encountered, but the LBX 5 hits that sweet spot of not giving up the big chunk of damage, but really benefiting from the other perks of LBX. I still sometimes have a hard time picking an LBX over missiles, but, meh. Haven't tinkered with Rotaries yet, but I imagine the Rotary AC5 can do terrifying things.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 AC/5 has same range as PPC, LL has same as AC10. Larges are generally better than AC/5, but without double heat sinks AC5s do have some use. They're very heat efficient for the damage they put out, which makes them a generalist weapon. Generally you can use them when a PPC is too hot but you want more range than an LL. They're meant for mech builds where bracketing isn't going to be used. Eg, as soon as you have the heatsinks to fire 4 MLs, use a PPC unless you need that extra 5 pt damage.
The JM-6S does have _one_ single advantage over the Rifleman, the dual AC2s can be loaded with AP for some nice assault hunting and the fact that the AC5s carry two tons of ammo means that if you so choose you can swap one of those bins for flachette if you really hate infantry and woods hexes, AP if you're fighting stuff with particularly heavy armor, or AA if you really hate fliers. Still worse than the Rifleman overall but I think that the Rifleman only carrying one ton of ammo for the autocannons is somewhat limiting not only for lack of specialty munitions but also since it means that ammo becomes an issue somewhat quickly whereas the Jagermech doesn't really have that issue. Of course the Rifleman can torso twist and the Jager can't unless you're playing with the redesigns so that's a serious bummer.
Here's what I don't understand: the Archer, the Warhammer and the Rifleman all came from the same source (Macross), yet the WHM and ARC are 70 but the RFL is only 60. Why? I feel that many of the Rifleman's problems would be solved with those extra 10 tons, although I confess I haven't tried to build one.
The earliest mechs were initially designed under slightly different build rules. From what I remember mechs didn't get the 10 free heatsinks, weapons heat was different, and movement had heat curves. It's why in the first novels the Locust is described as constantly overheating while Marauders slinged PPCs effortlessly and Riflemen were consummate badasses.
In the HBS game I use the Jägermech JM-6A as a heavy recon/spotter/interdiction 'mech. Here is what it looks like. *Weapons:* - 4 x Inferno++ Missile Launchers - 2 x Flamers++ - 1 x Medium Laser+++ or 1 x ER Medium Laser - 1 x TAG++ (Optional: Another laser per above or 1 x Medium Pulse Laser) *Equipment:* - 4 x Jump Jets (right torso, left torso, legs) - 1 x Gyro++ (-30% Stability) - 1 x Cockpit Mod++ (Rangefinder is an option but dangerous as you'll see) - 2 x Double Heat Sinks - 1 x TTS+++ (+3 Accuracy to Missiles) - Optional: 4 x Arm Mods (So long as they are 0 ton); 2 x Leg Mods (also 0 ton) *Armor:* Maximum Armor (With this load out you'll be over by 0.39 tons so deduct 0.13 tons from the three rear armor facings. You're gonna need it!) *Pilot Skills Preference:* Stats maxed in Gunnery and Tactics, specifically Multi-Targeting, Sensor Lock, Master Tactician *Tactics:* The Jägermech leads the lance as heavy recon/spotter. On movement to contact the pilot sensor locks the lead target for an early hit (hopefully you have long range assets to do it with). Jumping to medium range with the lead enemy 'mech you can _entirely shut it down_ with the Inferno Missile Launchers. Ideally doing so to the most dangerous 'mech in the enemy lance. But regardless, it's 25% of the enemy lance taken offline for 1-2 turns. You have the option to target either the other 'mechs with your one called shot or knee cap (or headshot) the shut down 'mech with the rest of your lance. Remember all shots vs. a shut down mech are called shots. Using the TAG accelerates damage by 20%. If the enemy fires first, you may be able to effectively neutralize two 'mechs at a time by shooting two and running their heat to nearly shut down so they're forced to use only their lowest heat generating weapons, if any at all. As the scenario matures, you may even shut down two or even three at once using the Infernos and the Flamers. Hence the pilot's need for Multi-Targeting ability. Note a human opponent - and sometimes even the computer - will ID the Jägermech as THE primary threat once it shuts down a mech. From then on the Jägermech becomes an absolute drek magnet. (The rest of your lance is safe so long as it's up.) This is why the pilot should be a Master Tactician so he or she can go a round early. ALWAYS jump max jump for those 4 precious movement modifiers and use cover when possible. Try to keep it out of walking range except for shots you know will shut down the enemy. Otherwise they WILL physically attack. Be sparing with the laser as even it will overheat the Jägermech after a few turns. Keep a strong mech with lots of medium/short range firepower close by to take advantage of those shut down mechs, soak enemy firepower and watch the Jägermech's back. Note that if you can't get the "best of the best" weapons and equipment to mount, even the average versions will be severely difficult for the enemy. *Pairing:* I like to pair this 'mech with Marauders because their Lance Command Module doubles their odds of hitting a called shot. Preferably 3 x Ultra AC2s for maximum range and hit probability. (35% chance of hitting the head for a pilot with the max gunnery attribute!) With skill you can sometimes take out one or more of the enemy lance using the Jägermech to sensor lock them and use the Marauders to pelt them from outside their range envelope. *Weakness:* This Jägermech design's primary weakness is the limited ammo. Once the Inferno missiles are gone it's neutered and the Flamers will be out sooner than them. Also, Jägermech arms are weak even with max armor. If the BT universe was real I doubt any faction would use this as it's only good for one or two firefights. *Alternative 'Mechs:* This load out can be roughly duplicated on the Griffin, the Catapult, the Stalker and some Cyclops variants. Though each has their differences. You can't mount a Gyro on the Catapult and have the lasers. The Griffin is faster but it lacks armor and you must sacrifice one or two weapons or equipment. The Stalker and the Cyclops are slow. They can't carry Flamers though one variant of the Cyclops can carry an extra Inferno rack or two and both can carry additional weapons and armor.
I prefer the Jagermech over the Rifleman any day of the week. It has range advantage and can sit at the edge of the board pinging opponents and crit seeking, while the enemy ignores it because they think it is weak. Most engagements last no more than 15 turns, so ammo isn't an issue and heat is definitely not an issue. Add to that a low BV value and it's an excellent support mech for brawlers.
In MW5, these things are significantly harder to fight then a Riflemen because they can engage you at further ranges with AC/2s and the head doesn't stick out like The Riflemen's so headshotting it is way harder. The profile of the guns are also smaller so disarming it is more difficult as well. All of this means you need to somewhat concentrate fire onto a Jaegermech to put it down via volume of fire till it breaks, or rip its legs off, and they are most commonly deployed in groups of two.
I remember getting one in HBS Battletech and turning it in to a LRM boat with basically no armor. It worked really well for its job. Of course the AI did target my three other mechs upfront over it so...
Love this thing in MW5. Kit it with four AC/2s, and you can shoot about as fast as you can click. Deletes air units, deletes terrain, and if you can track an enemey's head for about 3 seconds it'll delete most mechs too.
In the basic model it's terrible. In the LRM configuration it's pretty decent. In my alternate 3050 configuration, it's kinda scary. Drop the AC 5's for PPC'S, make the Heat sinks double and add one (22 HS capacity) and add the rest to armor. Now it's scary.
Jagermech in my mind appears to be a 'mech that works very well in some lore senses. It excels in Anti Air which is a role that is important in lore and would prevent a lot of shenanigans they could do. It also does well in asymmetric warfare. The glass cannon approach works very well for bullying lighter weight classes and at far - potentially even giving the ability to completely negate incoming damage all together. Not to say this is the perfect mech design in the world for these jobs (after all you can argue a Rifleman that swaps AC/5's for AC/2's for more heatsinks covers a lot of the same basics and it boggles my mind this isn't a field mod or factory variant already. Alternatively dropping a large laser for ammo and things... that and Blackjacks also exist) but there are areas in setting where the mech does make sense and justifies it existing as long as it has. The DD is a step in the right direction (personally having the medium pulse lasers stay as medium lasers and using those 2 tons for armour would've done wonders...) but I am surprised lore wise we see a lack of any of the advanced technologies going directly to improving it's survivability but I suppose this is because of the 70 ton variants filling that niche.
I just figured out the point of this mech thanks to a comment on another video. The Rifleman was taken out of its support role and put into the front lines. So they came up with a mech that no one would be willing to put in the front lines. Thus the supply lines manage to retain some sort of mech to defend them. No one wants to "borrow" the Jagermech. They can put it next to the gempirary airfield and let it defend the reinforcements from aerospace assets. ...probably cheaper just to get an AA vehicle.
best part of this mech is you can tell what they were drinking in the design that was a larger rifleman that can't torso twist Edit: hold up, they made a heavy that has ammo explosions have so little armor that a medium could core it or a Jenner could scratch all of its armor with a lucky roll? And somehow it does less dakka then the rifleman? I was joking about the drinking, yeesh
The Double-D is a lot safer than most mechs thanks to CASE. It's also salvageable, which is likely its best selling point. From a procurement standpoint, the JM6-DD can throw out a large amount of shells quickly and if the position is overrun it'll soak some damage without risking the CT or head in most cases. As long as you win the engagement you cart the mech off to the FOB and replace the blown side torso. Pilot stays alive and can remain safe in the cockpit if they disabled the auto-eject functionality.
I never liked the Jagermech much, until I got one pretty much for free in HBS Battletech. I did a melee attack against one with a Centurion. My Centurion kicked its head in and I got it free as my salvage for the mission. It's a damn fine platform for standing far away and turning smaller 'mechs into Swiss cheese. Damn, that Marian model is perfect. Start the party at range, and if anyone closes with you, you bring out the fireworks.
8:05 "6 Rocketlauncher 15s", because being able to maintain your firepower doesn't really matter when you can take down an assault mech with your opening salvo. Talk about good bang for your buck
Using a 6s in MW5 currently and having a blast. Gave it some endo and ferro slapped a bunch more armor on with the saved weight and with a double bin of ac5 ammo equalized my rounds between ac2 and 5. Great pinpoint damage that can quickly core or leg mechs and amazing at taking out vtols. Give me a lance of these refits an I'll show a clan star what's up in the inner sphere.
Found it useful only in MWO where endosteel and light engine made it able to install 4 AC2 and 4 ER small lasers, or 2 LBX10 and 4 med lasers. In MW5 repairs are too expensive because the more expensive weapons go lost with the arms. Prefering the same ton Thunderbold.
This was the first heavy mech I got in MW5 I fell in love with it and bout another one the missile one so I had the AC one and would snipe with it and my friend was in the missile one but now I’ve replaced it with 2 warhammers
In Battletech it's possible to add in 4 lb-2x guns and an ER large or medium laser. The LB-2Xs make it a mini annihalator. You can update the mecht with better LB-2xs and add some much needed armor. The secondary version with the LRM racks tends to completely match this guy and the combo is a winner on long range. Give me a SRM kintaro for shortrange though or a nice centurion
My Jagermech in MW5 has twin AC10s to leg most targets and I added as much armor as possible. It's not the best at taking damage, but it can last for a good fight.
Been a long since I played but the JM I liked turned the AC/5's to 2's. The extra weight, 4 tons, went into more armor. With all the ammo weight being for 1 ammo type you had lots of staying power. I also did my best to keep the JM at the back of the fight. Like the Rifleman, these Mechs do not belong anywhere near the frontline. Just because it had 2 ML's did not mean it should be using them for anything more than fighting off scouts that made it back to their lines along with the Archers and Rifleman Mechs. The thought of the modern military putting and weapons system specializing in Anti-Air on the front lines with the Abrams Battle Tank is ridiculous. So why would you do it in Battletech unless you were either insane or desperate? For anyone that thinks AC/2s are terrible weapons. Take out your Mech sheet and hit the head 5x and tell me what happens... yeah, the pilot is dead and unless the Critical Roll was successful you have a fully functional Battlemech that needs some new armor on the head and the cockpit hosed out. Even at 2 or 3 hits to the head the pilot has chance to be knocked out, making the Mech prone and much easier to be hit. My friend did this to me on a Thunderbolt. A command lance with a Cyclops, 2 Archers, and a AC/2 JM could do a lot of damage at long range in support of other lances.
Some designer probably seen a rifleman and said "I can do better" and then didn't, and then because it was his creation couldn't see the problems or admit to them.
That ac2 guy here. I Run the jm6-s with 4 ac2s and as much armor as the mech lets me. Loved running this mech in early game mw5 when you not facing other heavies or assaults. Cus it's weak as heck.
@@wolfyhalfmoon819 You can customize whatever you want, but in-universe its extremely expensive, so most people ignore that, and just customize away. But it min-maxes the game and kinda breaks how it works.
Just started using the Jagermech in MWO, got that XL260 engine, x4 UAC2's and two medium lasers for point defense. The amount of ammo this thing has is awesome. With your 65 kph ish speed, find a hill or dip and use your high mounted auto cannons to deal quick bursts of damage to mechs out to 900 meters and then drop back before they can return fire. Rinse and repeat. When sustaining too much damage to a side torso, simply twist the opposite torso in front to spread damage. With the XL engine and light UAC's Im able to put decent armor, and make a durable enough mech for trading at range against bigger but less manuverable targets. Plus with the projectile speed of AC2's hitting faster mediums is easy as well. A factory Jager is disappointing, as a mercenary with millions of bills to use, its become a useful tool in my long range arsenal
@BigRed40TECH of course. I agree that I don't see any use in using one on the tabletop. I'll stick with close/midrange heavies like the Marauder and catapult for my Lance's core firepower
the most annoying thing of Jagermech in MWO is enemies are often easily killed me by destroying the cockpit because the "head" is literally in the center of center torso. Even with random shot from far away there's a good chance enemy will damage the head.
In my mind the mechs biggest flaw is the massive(seems to have massive center cockpit) when Playing Mechwarrior all you have to do is aim centermass, and the cockpit gets blown I out. Not to mention the 6 tons of armor on it. I feel bad for any pilot that was assigned to it when put in a direct fire roll going up to any mech that can even remotely outgun it
I remember the jagermech in battletech for pc. I made it more of a glass cannon before I had the dlc stripped of almost all it's armor gave it 4 ac-5s and a crapload of ammo very dangerous for my enemies and for me. A well placed salvo could destroy almost any medium mech and some heavies lost the guns pretty regularly though.
I agree with your assesment though there's one variant that i like, and that's the AA variant , because i was able to downgrade theLRM-15's to LRM-10's or replace the LRM's with a pair of SRM-6's and put several tons of extra armor on her. As for the AC/2 it carries, i know how you feel about those but i personally enjoy firing the burst-fire cannons i put on one of those.
Imagine if there was a variant of this mech that is basically a heavy cousin to the Urbie and Annihilator with 2/3 or 3/5 movement, more armor, and twin AC20's, I would call it... the "Jagerbomb".
The JagerMech, in it's role, is actually quite solid. It drops aerospace assets like it's going out of style and provides constant AC fire against anything that lets itself remain a target for more than a round or two. Like the Rifleman, It only really sucks if you try to push it outside it's designated combat role. This is one of the few designs that could have benefited from boating 4xAC/2s, the small decrease in overall damage gives it a large increase in overall range and allows it to beef up it's paltry armor. AC/2s on the tabletop are extremely underwhelming, but out range everything else in 3025 and have a tendency to be ignored until it's too late.
I was just thinking why not make it with 4 x AC 2s? I remember using it so much from Mechcommander Gold as it was one of the starting mechs but trying to use it on Mech 5 I found it hard to use, but with some mods and popping an AI in it, they can quite effective long support/anti aircraft/vehicle mechs ^_^. I did find AC2's quite effect on BattleTech, especially with the black jack jumping to high ground and pop off shots!
I equipped a Jager with 4 AC/2s (in place of a couple of AC/5s) and maxed out its armor and gave it a shedload of ammunition. Its a cockpit deleter with that setup I love it and I can't handle no slander on my big chunky boi
I'm worried that the Caldari Rokh-class battleship at 5:45 does not have its engines running. That's about 1,100 meters of spaceship that's about to fall.
@@BigRed40TECH you dare refuse my batchall! By the Falcons claws.... I kid I kid. I'm a Capellen. Like my knife? Hey... Look at that thing behind you... 🗡
@@aragos32727 Ironically, the other houses have betrayed people more than the Capellans do. It's a really weird reputaiton for them to get. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trust them. But I wouldn't trust ANYONE in Battletech.
The JM6-DD is no joke one of my favourite mechs in MWO. Because with triple RAC-2 in one arm, triple light machine guns in the other... and two er medium lasers you can put some nasty daka into enemies at a pretty good range. And at short range pesky light mechs have to think twice about hunting you too. is it the best? Certainly not, but i love that build.
@@BigRed40TECH That's 100% true. Both the tabletop and the online game vary a lot. But at the very least MWO is one of only a few PC games that at least tries to feed our Battletech cravings. I mean i like the Jagermech from a design point of view, but his stats (lorewise) really aren't that good. Heck, even in the tabletop the mech isn't exactly a fan favourite.
The DD could be workable - if they had settled for regular (or even ER!) medium lasers instead of pulses and just let the AC2s share a ton of ammo like it had before and placed those three free tons into armor. It’d still be a second line mech of course, but wouldn’t crumple in a stiff breeze while retaining the strengths of the armaments. It’s a bit puzzling. Like the NARC beacon on the clan wars Trebuchet - I mean, it’s nice to have but not exactly conducive to the second line nature of the Trebby. I get the same thought looking at the pulse lasers on the Jagermech - that’s nice and all, but wasted tonnage on the second line when you’re far from effective range of those pulse lasers. Ideally, your Jager is going to be far enough from the fight that the upgrade is unnecessary. Armor to stand up to return fire would be far better.
I legit screamed in frustration when I saw the JM6-DD went with pulse lasers rather than ER Mediums and 2 additional tons of armor. Only the JM6-DG/DGr, JM7-D, and JM7-G have have the reliable range and fire power to justify having so little armor on a direct fire support mech.
@@BigRed40TECH You are correct my bad, I thought it was LosTech I forgot it was clans refining the ER tech from the Large Lasers onto other size lasers... (Which make sense I guess since the Large Laser is a Graser and the Small and Medium are Free-Electron Lasers.) Still, only half a ton of additional tissue paper on the DD is just stupid, and upping the the close in armament on such a fragile machine (that isn't fast enough to compensate with evasion) is just stupid.
I sure wouldn't want to go up against a Kaiju in that thing! Oh wait, wrong franchise! 😉 One thing it does have going for it though is that sweet spoiler. Adds at least 15 horse power!
The Jagermech stands out on tabletop in my mind for one reason. I witnessed a player attempt to position his Jagermech on a high rock to get good field of fire. He failed his PSR on the dangerous ground, and fell on it's back. The ensuing damage punched through the paper thin rear armor, causing a crit, which detonated the ammo housed inside.
No enemy fire was involved.
This literally made me laugh out loud.
People claim that I'm too harsh to some of these mechs, in general I try to be generous, but some of them are yes, really that bad.
@@BigRed40TECH It was the literal mech embodiment of the Bad Luck Brian meme.
I had a Hollander do that in the PC game.
I heard an explosion in the distance, and after the battle, Hollander parts were in the salvage.
I never even saw the Mech.
I had a Catapult one shotted by an Excali due to ammo. But no one calls it a bad mech. Shit happens.
LOL!
The FASA design art makes it look like an urbanmech wearing a jetpack
It's like an Urbanmech, in so far as it has the same armour as the Urbanmech.
But x3 times the ammunition.
So it's like an Urbanmech, but if it could explode.
@@BigRed40TECH Explosions make things BETTER!
You just described the Hornet.
You wanna know the most bafflingly annoying flaw of the Jagermech, as an AA platform (at least in the original FASA design)? It can't torso twist, making tracking its intended targets (aircraft) significantly more difficult. The redesigns fix this flaw.
yeah it's a great reminder that building a better war machine is harder than it looks.
@@eddapultstab2078 You would think that one of the first things you'd consider in an anti-air platform is to ability to effectively engage aircraft. Sure, the Rifleman couldn't twist all the way around either, but that thing could flip its guns around to partly compensate for it. The inability to torso twist means that you can't effectively keep maneuvering aircraft engaged.
@@z3r0_35 which is why designing a warmachine is harder than it looks. The jeager mech suffers from, As tex calls it, teething troubles. It's anti air package is quite inferior to not only the rifleman but also the partisans quad ac 5s at the same weight(edit I meant 80 tons, my bad) at almost a third of the cost, which would be the real competition as a AA platform. Ironically, the rifleman, jeagermech, and partisan are all kallon industries designs. I think secretly, the jeagermech was intentionally marketed to Davion due to autocannon fever because DAKA.
Torso twist, or the lack there of, is often a very confusing thing. Several old designs lacked it but then put it back in at some unclear point in time. It's hard to tell what's more up to date and what to trust.
For no torso twist.. look no further that the Yoe men 🤦
IS Rifleman - Where is my armor and heatsinks?
IS Jagermech - Where is upgrades from the IS Rifleman?
Rifleman IIC - Why am I living proof that second line battle mechs are often overlooked by my fellow clanners?
Notice how in some of the art if you remove the JagerMech's shoulders/arms it looks kind of like an UrbanMech trashcan? I feel that this is fitting.
You can fit an Urbanmech in this trashcash. Trash attracts trash.
The Jagermech is the perfect counter to an advance of Urbies armed with AC20s.
Jagger mech is an urbie but as a teenager.
Then as an adult it becomes a annihilator.
Urby's big brother
The Jaegermech is just 2 Urban mechs in a trenchcoat
MechWarrior: Commander, can we get the rifleman?
Commander: we have the rifleman at the base.
The rifleman at the base….
Ruthless. But true. XD
" Mom, that is NOT a Rifleman!"
Disgusted 8 year old face...
@@patrickkenyon2326 arguably better than a rifleman as long as you dont shoot it, shout at it, or think angry thoughts in its general direction.
@@Colonel_Overkill I have found, if you take off half the armament, and replace with armor, it becomes a decent medium Mech.
I can answer the question Davion wins with the Jagermech as Fire support/antiaircraft by fighting in RCTs. So in a battle where a regiment of mechs 3 regiments of vehicles five regiments of infantry two aerospace fighter wings and a battalion of artillery. In a fight at that scale Jagermechs as fire support tend to survive as there are just too many things to shoot at then the Jagermech. It’s a large scale Battletech.
"Gentlemen, how do we improve the Rifleman?"
"What if we remove everything actually good about it?"
"That's so stupid, it just might work..."
It didn't work.
The Federated Suns somehow wins all these wars with Mechs no one in their right mind would pilot.
@@BigRed40TECH maybe they won because nobody thought to include countermeasures against these madhat mech designs in their combat plans and therefore never prepared for them.
Mechwarrior: "Commander! My battle computer's not giving me a firing solution against the enemy Jaegermech!"
Commander: "That's because nobody's fool enough to use one in combat."
Mechwarrior: "Well I'm looking at a fool nobody right now!"
@@BigRed40TECH Bah, everyone knows they win all those wars because of plot armor.
@@BigRed40TECH
Hmmm... could it be that no one takes these mechs as salvage? That would allow them to salvage them themselves after each battle, and this field larger armies of bad mechs.
Perhaps the jagermech is relatively good if you have 3 of them shooting at each enemy mech from maximum range...
Look, this mech is generally reviled but I love it. I had a character in a MechWarrior campaign that used one like an Omni mech, buying several and making the arms modular with different weapons systems. One fight I may have been using a couple LB10xs, another fight I might have a huge bevy of machine guns, another would see me loading an AC20 and SRM2s. My opponents never saw the same mech twice in a row, and I went undefeated in 7 fights before my unit had to actually go back to work. Good memories of this Mech, only love for it.
One of my most favorite long range mechs! It's just too bad my ai allies in Mechwarrior 5 aren't smart enough to actually also use it effectively without getting both arms blown off after every mission 😤😤😤
Best idea is to remove its weapons and armour and stock it up with more ammunition. This will help it.
Yeah, without TTRulezAI they just try to brawl with it. Modded to carry 4x AC-5s, however, and piloted by a competent AI or a pilot, it's a beast of a fire support platform.
That also happens with the Warhammer and other mechs.
Oh man i fucking feel this the ai just walk in a straight fucking line at the enemy and then complain that they are taking too much damage
i recognized the suicide charges, and glued two ac 10 to mine, it never dies anymore since its now a sawed-off mech gauge doubble-barrel shotgun
The two glaring issues with the Jagermech and this often crops up on the table top game and the Battletech tactics game, is the fact it's a 65ton mech with the armour of a 45 ton mech, moving at the speed of a Heavy. It is slow, poorly armoured and rarely are battlefields or deployments are favourable to this mech and when they are favourable, all it would take is medium armed with PPCs on the opposite side of the open field to take the mech out in a couple of shots to its legs. I got one of these early on in HBS Battletech and it took extreme levels of tactical genius to stop it getting owned by the AI mechs while simultaneously trying to bring it's tremendous firepower to bare to core target marked light and medium mechs. You want at *least* 8 Hexes between this mech and the opponent mechs at all times and prey the opponents don't have more AC2s and PPCs than you do. If they have gauss rifles, just don't bother fielding this thing, the gauss rifle will strip it's armour in a single shot while simultaneously punching through criting internals.
If you want good fire support, bring an Archer or a Catapult instead; Same weight class, better mechs for the job and they can safely hide behind things too. The Jager is only good verses Aerotech fighters and you rarely encounter those even on the table top.
Swap the light AC systems for two AC/10's and more armor and you have something worth owning. The lack of torso twisting is still an issue.
It no longer lacks torso twist. :D
And then it's just a Rifleman-3C. lol
I REALLY love the missile version of this baby. The JM6-A variant.
Sure, it's made from reinforced tissue paper... but good luck exploiting that, when 30 missiles a round are slamming into your torso from behind terrain. And if you have direct line range advantage, you can pelt with the AC2s, too. With proper placement and support, it's a nasty moving turret that can just reach out and touch basically the entire field.
Even so... the Awesome LRM variants basically do the exact same tactic, but for just above 1 million C-Bills more you get a large laser instead of the AC2s AND more armor AND a battle fist AND a small laser AND almost TRIPLE the amount of heat sinks, so unless you're on a budget, you probably should go for that one. And that's the oldest variant, the AWS-8R. The still pretty ancient AWS-8T variant has TWO large lasers, and still almost all of the above.
Still... as long as its used for the sort of garrison slash anti-air slash fire-support duty it was intended for, I do think the Jagermech isn't bad, per say. It's just... a very humble moving turret, that was commanded to go smack people in the face way too much, because The Inner Sphere lost their dang minds for several hundred years, and barely had sticks to smack each other with before The Clans forced them to at least partially get their act together.
I actually have s softspot for the Jagermech, it was my first heavy mech in the HBS game and it worked well, a little rejigging and extra armour does wonders
May be a worse rifleman but there’s something about the design that makes me like it.
It should be 2 large lasers 2 Ac2s 16 heat sinks and 4 more tons of armor.
Name
MOTIVE HITS. MOTIVE HITS. MOTIVE HITS.
Yeah its got some insignificant anti-mech firepower, but this thing has the RANGE and can stay relatively cool while crippling hovercraft, tanks, vtol etc
Don't ask the thing to do stuff it doesn't want to do, and it'll treat you right ❤
Visually, the Jager is one of my all-time favourite mechs, especially the excellent MWO art. Whenever I actually use one in say the HBS Battletech game, I *always* remove the AC2s, add a bunch of armor, and put in two more MLs. It's not flashy, but at least it works!
I put in large lasers and heat sinks, my fire support mechs almost never get into ml range
try 2 clan lpl's in place of the ac2's and double heat sink ( replace ac2 ammo with hs)
Counterpoint, the AC-40 BoomJaeger will never not be funny
Ah, the JagerMech. A Mech on the 'light' side of being a Heavy Mech. And one that should have been made 10 tons heavier to allow for a better design overall. But, that is just my opinion.
The JM6-DD, the tech upgrade that made this a clan fighting mech. They dumped an XL engine into the design... and somehow squandered all of the weight savings without addressing the mech's biggest issue: the thin armor. 2 tons to upgrade the AC5's to ultra. 2 tons to upgrade the medium lasers to pulse. 1 ton of extra AC2 ammo. This mech could of gratefully taken 5 additional tons of armor and been better than it was even without weapon upgrades. If you truly need to make this mech use next gen weapons then strip out the AC2s for ER Large Lasers and dump in 10 double heat sinks in that XL engine. Or rip out all of the ACs and replace them with Gauss Cannons like the JM6-DG.
I love that they made it even less survivable than the original.
@@BigRed40TECH I'm just going to go into round 2 on this rant, because its suppose to be an effective mech against the Clans. Really? Seriously how? The AC2 has the same range characteristic as the ER Large Laser and the clan version hits 5 times harder than an AC2. Sure, it runs hot but Clan double heat sinks can easily manage the heat. ER PPC has even better range and damage for only slightly more heat and weight.
The Inner Sphere can't compete in long range shootouts with the Clans. The Clans just use better ranged weapons. All around better. The main factor that lets IS mechs compete with Clan mechs is using terrain to avoid long range engagements. Once you get within 9 hexes the IS can fight effectively. The IS is still at a ton for ton disadvantage, but this is as even with Clan technology as you are going to get.
Standing a Jaggermech or anything else that is a dedicated long range poker up against a Clan Mech is just asking to have it cored long before the opposing Clan mech even feels threatened. Trying to use IS pulse weapons against Clans just seems unlikely to be effective as well, unless you have superior movement and lots of cover. The range disparity is just bad.
@@Chris_Sizemore ambushes are what you can do with it. Have it be bait, with it keeping their attention as long as possible leading them into a city or (preferably) a mesa.
Honestly, about half of the 3050 updates were just bad. The tech was applied in a manner in keeping with illiterate children or primitives given a box of new toys. With that being the best, yeah, thats part of why the Clans went through the best tech of the IS.
@@tenchraven Clans were also predominantly fighting non-upgraded units. Most of the turning points in the invasion were where the IS had numbers, elite warriors, and fully upgraded regiments. You're right though that many of the designs are pretty bad. Still, they were an upgrade over whatever was previously being used, with exceptions (eg Grasshopper).
Jager. We solved the poor battlefield staying power of the Rifleman! And all it cost was an incredible flaw in battlefield staying power.
Inner Sphere progress at its finest.
Can we all just appreciate that hasn't been a better soundtrack for a mechwarrior game than mercenaries?
I love the JagerMech in MechWarrior 5! Sure, it isn't that strong for its tonnage and there are plenty of better options to put in your hanger, but taking the default JM6-S and removing the AC/5s and adding two more AC/2s, dropping the medium lasers for small lasers, adding a total of 4 tons of ammo and now having a max of 10 tons of armor while never having to stop firing is oddly satisfying, especially when a group of Warriors spawn in and start flying over to my Lance.
I did the same. limiting the AI's armament options seems to help them too. I park that thing on a hill in a warzone mission and the armor on larger mechs melt.
I kept the original feel and downgraded to 2x light rifles + 2x med rifles. Perfect for AI. When it shoots things just open up.
@@TheInsomniaddict I've done something similar on the A variant before. Drop both AC/2s for light rifles and spent the saved tonnage on more LRM ammo, fire control systems for both LRM-15s, and upgraded the medium lasers to medium pulse lasers!
Even on tabletop I feel like the Jager would be better served by quad AC/2 and more armor. Compared to a pair of AC/10 you're doing less than half damage but with Medium Range modifiers when the 10s would be at long or ineligible to fire at all. It's also twice as many chances at criticals if someone else has done you the favour of putting holes in the enemy's armor.
Everything you've said is regrettably true. The Suns fell down on this one, a rarity for them. Valkyrie? Sturdier Wasp with long-rage capability, good design. Enforcer? A burlier Clint that can run and gun against heavier mechs, good design. Hatchetman? A ground-breaking Medium brawler, good design. The Jagermech? Inferior version of Rifleman that could lose a 1 on 1 duel with a Valkyrie, bad design. It was one of the few mech designs my old merc unit would not consider using.
Used to love playing this with quad ac2 on MWO years ago just because of the sound.
For a mech that appears in Capellan space it mysteriously doesn't appear in my forces , the Imperialist Davions can keep them . At least a Blackjack can defend itself and has more armour
The Jaegermech is really just a heavier worse Blackjack.
You play as a Capellan and admit it?
@@mikewaterfield3599 Hell yeh Space Communism all the way , we have universal health , universal education and pensions . And if that doesn't persuade you then we have Plasma Rifles , Guided Missile Artillery , Stealth Armour to persuade you .
@@mathewkelly9968 ah huh, that "universal education" didn't teach you space commies not to get your teeth kicked in by every other power including periphery states cause you guys apparently could not read the "no trespassing" signs to your galactic south. Even five hundred years in the future some people still have yet to figure out. communism only looks good on paper never in practice.
@@BlueberryFruitshake I think the capellans had a surplus of auto cannons and needed something to put them on.
I managed to solve the armor problem with my MW 5 Merc company's refit of the mech. Twin LB 10X ACs, Twin Light rifles and twin MP lasers. Up gunned and up armored but carries a very low amount of ammo especially for the light rifles. It doesn't have the endurance for missions that drag on and has shorter range than stock. Over all,mixed results,sweeps away lights, mediums and aircraft but has trouble with mechs of the same weight or greater.
Great stuff as always, the Jager is a...curious egg. I mean you can sit up the back and plink away with the AC's at long range, rationing that you've got enough ammunition to basically take shots regardless of the chances. But this all falls apart if you take a hit, because this thing is a glass cannon.
All it takes is a couple hits to one of those torsos and you've got yourself some fireworks.
It's not really a glass cannon - more a glass pop-gun . . .
FedSuns: Hey guys good news we have fixed the Riflemans armor issue! How? Well we just removed the rest of it.
I know it's not great but I have a special place in my heart for the Jaegermech, especially its variants that add RACs. A dual RAC/2 Jaeger might not do a lot of damage per shot, but oh boy, can it fire a lot of shots.
That said, that's only from a BTA3062 standpoint, which operates differently from the tapletop.
It’s a shame I really don’t like this mech, because my god I love looking at it. It’s boxy and intimidating. I connected with the franchise with the Battletech PC game and I would love to field them in good faith in that, because it looks so good, and I actually like AC/2 in that because they can be lethal in quads (especially UAC/2s) for headshots if I want to do some shopping. But if it gets hit, it normally dies quickly.
I can see why it’s designed like this from a game design perspective - something that slams the target with so many AC shots at that weight class would be horrifically unbalanced. It’s a glass cannon (almost literally!)
But in-universe? WHAT WERE THEY EVEN THINKING?!? WHY DO THIS?
What? You don't want a Rifleman that does less damage, and is packed full of ammunition, so it just explodes upon taking any meaningful damage?
@@BigRed40TECH hahah! 😂
@@BigRed40TECH In this economy, it's not so bad sounding. CASE isn't for the pilot, pilots are cheap. CASE is for maximizing salvage.
Honestly, I don't see the point of AC/2s or UAC/2s, unless you really don't have the tonnage or heat to spare for anything better. However, LB-2 Xs are great for making VTOLs miserable, and Light AC/2s, once those become available, are light enough that it's actually sorta worth considering using them on some mechs.
@@z3r0_35 yeah, I’m a newbie to the TTG, but in the Battletech computer game they are excellent (I’ve found, anyway) for sniping enemy ‘mechs in the face and walking away at the end with some pretty decent salvage, if you are lucky enough to pull it off. I’ve had some minor success with them in MW5, too.
They seem to be a weapon that the computer game struggles to match up with the TTG, though; I agree, they seem a bit pointless in that - they perform relatively well on the PC, which feels like a mismatch. In the computer game they seem adequate - on the tabletop they are pretty much worthless.
That said, I should clarify that sniping enemies in the face with a lucky headshot is only really reliably possible in large numbers, and that is *all* I have found that they are good at. That’s why four UAC/2s on a jaegermech works pretty well - you have shot saturation, which massively improves the chances of pulling it off. As you say, they are rather rubbish weapons overall; they just don’t do enough for the tonnage. Even then, they are on a mech with spider-levels of armour, so you have to be incredibly careful!
I only played a Jagermech once at a friend's house. It was a variant which was basically an advanced tech rifleman with two er large lasers and rwo ultra ac-5.
You missed the critical role the jagermech fills for the entire inner Shpere: as an example for other mech-designers how not to do it. This thing has no place at the frontline imo. The rifleman isn't perfect, but at least useable, unlike this contraption of ecplosives held together by detcord and ricepaper.
If only they somehow removed the autocannons, but added mroe ammunition in their place. That'd really make the Jagermech a success.
@@BigRed40TECH yeah, as an ammocarrier for real Combat mashines or as a banzai-mech... Like these katien-torpedoes used by the IJN in the 2. WW 😅
"contraption of explosives held together by detcord and ricepaper." ... I thought that was the Commando?
Nice video, I binged your playlist up until now as a new battletech player! Would love to see a rundown of say, Comstar, or mercenaries.
I'll see what I can do.
I remember using it for a few missions in the Battletech video game. It was often underwhelming and didn't pull its own weight (literally). It was also very vulnerable if it got hit at all. I used it because I felt like I needed a heavier mech, but it was quickly replaced in my roster once I got something with more punch.
In the PC game, I found 2 Blazers to be workable.
Honestly, if you go frankenmech on this thing, it's not the WORST mech imaginable.
But... that's more because of its tonnage than anything it actually does.
I think this mech answers the question, "what if we made the Blackjack bigger?"
Why anyone asked that question? I assume drugs were involved 🤔
I really wanted to like the Jagermech, but the only way to to make it good is customize the load out. I removed the ac2 and medium lasers in favor of 2 large lasers more heat sinks and armor
So you turned it into a slightly lighter rifleman II?
It's a decent loadout all things considered, But why not just use the Rifleman II at that point?
This comment is meant to be snarky, but all in good fun.
@@Cha-Khia I have never played table top so I use what the Batteltech video games gives me to work with.
A lot of the "why use x" questions are answered by "because its what we have", which is sort of what makes battletech great.
*Worse Rifleman? Don't you mean a worse blackjack.*
the jeagermech isn't that bad in concept. the real issue is designing it around 4 auto cannons. the biggest lvl1 upgrade is to replace the old cannons with 2 ac 10s and add armor from weight saved while improving damage. another good change is to replace the 5s with large lasers and adding heat sinks and armor to compensate. the base model is crap, I agree, but their is alot of room to customize.
Problem with the 2x AC10 is the same as the Rifleman variant that does the same: it attempts to "solve" its shortcomings by completely ditching its intended role and putting it in direct competition with mechs like the CPLT-K2 Catapult or other superior medium range direct fire support mechs.
@@EvillBob to be fair, the 65 ton chassis is one of trickier weights, in addition as I mentioned the mech suffers from too much auto cannons in my opinion, it needs to remove one set and put that tonnage elsewhere, missles, lasers and armor. I mean if you want really weird, their is quad ac 2s and you can put the extra tonnage to armor and ammo. Make it a turbo blackjack.
Design is clearly flawed as a Frontline mech, a role I believe, it was never intended to perform, as the urbanmech is a coffin on legs, in open terrain, the jagermech is a defence oriented mech, intended for guarding landing zones, HQ and so on. A very special purpose mech. I played the tabel top game for 10+ years, I never fielded it once.
What i see in these video series on this channel vs comments is Tabletop/Lore/Story vs what people can edit with Mechbay in Mechwarrior/Mechcommander games... depending on personal customization many Tabletop-Shit mechs can be not only good, but some even godly designs, and few of those Tabletop-Solid prized mechs in story and lore can show their mechbay limitations.
In short ...if you can customize and make it work to degree you like it = mech is good ...many people can't or lack ideas and this is represented by Tabletop "Balance" and it's all fine and good building of setting, i'm just surprised is there no Mechbay for Tabletop or shit?
I would say mech customization in Btech proper is expensive. There aren't actually tons of custom mechs running around in every unit, typically only important people can afford to do it, unless we're tlaking Omni-mechs.
My friends and I mostly play stock mechs, barring extended campaigns, because stock mechs are what is in Battletech 99.5% of the time. But people are free to play how they like.
This channel approaches these designs with the idea that 99.5% of the units that walk out of the factory, are going to remain stock, indefinitely.
A purely AA and rearguard mech in my opinion, staying in the backlines protecting bases and landed dropships, not for the frontline in the slightest. But I would suspect it is the Bane of all VTOLS, Light Aerospace fighters, and Light bug mechs it will come come across in it's rearline duties
Except when it first released it couldn't twist it's torso. And it's so full of ammo that taking any damage is rolling the dice on becoming a sun on the ground.
From experince, bug mechs will take a Jagermech one on one. Sprint in, get inside the effective range of the ACs, and keep moving while you slap it apart. Stay to the sides and the rear and those poor MLs will never touch you.
@@tenchraven People keep forgetting it has flip arms for rear firing due to lack of hand actuators.
No torso twist means it can struggle to hit air assets, and its armor is genuinely low enough that it has to be concerned about the VTOL it's supposed to be dealing with sauntering over to blow up its ammo.
The JagerMech in one sentence: Well, you tried, A for effort.
Yeah I've always like the Jagermech, I love ACs, and if its used correctly its a solid machine. Only an idiot let's it get into close combat.
Dump the lasers and add 2 tons of armor
I still say replacing the ac 5s with large lasers and using the free 4 tons per guns and ammo to heat sinks and armor is a better set up. it will have some minor heat issues but it would be much more survivable. also replacing all 4 with ac 10s is also better
Funnily enought, i got the JMS-6DD variant in MWO, gave him two UAC 20 and plenty of armor. Since any ennemy thought I was a long range plateforme with paper armor, they went close, specially light mech. Pulverising them was pretty satisfying.
In other situation, positionning and staying behind friendly assault and heeavies is a pretty solid strat.
Not a perfect mech, but he can be nice, even surprising, sometimes.
Im new to the Battletech universe with my only exposure being the video game with the cool Heavy Metal expansion cover.
With that as my backstory, I must say this video saddens me.
The Jagermech was my first heavy after 1 lucky headshot in that one story mission (cant recall the name).
It has been with me ever since.
While it was eventually phased out for significantly better mechs, it remains in my hangar for pure nostalgia.
And it looks freaking cool ^.^
Every Mech has a story.
Don't let anyone tell you yours isn't worthy of respect.
I remember the time I lost a Dragon to a Cicada...
It does look freaking cool.
um later on in the timeline, there is a jagermech III, it solves some of the problems, with a different engine, that weights half a ton, less, and gets rid of the AC5s, replacing them with PCCs, not needing to have ammo, also saves weight allowing it to have 9 and a half tons of armor. also i think the different engine is faster, maybe, has a speed of 86.4km. it still is a XL engine tho so lost of the side torso would kill it, but it is an improvement. : /
About the best thing I've done with this is a variant with dual AC10/BFs. It's a murder machine. A second one has quad AC2s. Nice for fire support.
But next to the Rifleman it lacks versatility. Also its arms get easily shot off. That's a problem. AND its armor, or lack thereof, and its lack of hitting power. It's an unworkable compromise inferior to the mech it's supposed to replace, which with a few tweaks can be turned into a terrifying opponent. Riflemen I hate fighting because they stand off at range and pelt you with Large Lasers or shells; Jagermechs can be destructive at close range(two of them shredded my Awesome once that way) but at range their singular lack of punch is telling. Also their wide torsos and easily seen cockpits are huge targets: the mech is effectively a walking bull's-eye. When facing multiple mechs, I tend to shoot them first.
For some reason I have always had a soft spot for these things. For context I have my "scout group" of an Omega and 5 Ares forming a level II so they are a bit lighter than normally preferred. As a dedicated AA or even extreme range annoyance they are great. Just be careful as harsh language will occasionally kill one...
Say what you like but the Appearance of the Jager mech in MC2 was great
I like the Jagermech for fire support though I keep this very, very far away from the frontline. Preferably with a bigger distraction to draw fire away from it. Preferably a Marauder II. Because I like to hear my ears bring when I pull the trigger on those Autocannons.
The frontline doesn't want to keep away from u though :P
FF Armour and CASE are a Godsend for this unit.
Lol tell us how you really feel, Red. Seriously though, this is an honest take on an objectively bad mech, and while you are harsh to the design, I think you're fair in all of your criticism. Keep up the good work.
I held back the real venom. lol
700th like. I love the cockpit shields. In MW5 I own a rifleman and yeah,it over heats. I want a jaggermech just cauz. 5:34 looks like Jagger is just Urbanmechs crazy uncle.
I think the Jaegermech suffers mostly from the fact that light autocannon (ie, AC2s and AC5s) just plain suck. Too much weight and too little firepower in one package and the Jaegermech is carrying FOUR of these things. Even before the introduction of Double Heat Sinks and other advanced tech, the AC/2 and AC/5 are introtech's lemons.
If the Jaegermech dropped all of its ACs for a pair of PPCs, it'd have 14 tons (plus whatever weight is freed up from the ammo) for heat sinks and extra armor. You'd get half decent protection and increased firepower while still being able to stay cool.
I have to wonder what the designers were thinking when they designed the AC/2 and AC/5. In a design system where you have free heat sinks with every mech being heavy and cool running in no way compensates enough for doing so little damage. Video games solve the light firepower issue by giving the lighter ACs higher rates of fire, but that explicitly doesn't exist in TT where a "higher rate of fire" would just be a straight up damage buff, which in turn would make the AC's classification non-sensical..
There's an option rule set for Solaris VII duels that didn't catch on. Hexes were changed from 30m to 10, and likewise time was changed from 15s to 5. Light autocannons could fire every round other weapons couldn't. There's also a modern optional rule "Rapid Fire" which can allow mechs to take a gamble to get more shots out.
Beyond that golden BBs especially in level 1 are very useful. Aerospace has to make a control roll in case of any hits while vehicle movement crits are common. Special ammo is also fairly useful and precision helps a lot for level 1 builds post SWs.
AC/2's get a bit better in combined arms... but not really on Mechs. A smallish Tank with a pair of these suckers can be pretty awkward to deal with, and damage is damage, especially if it's damage that goes to whatever wants it the least.
Consider a pair of AC/2 against an AC/10... the 2's medium range is long or out of reach for the 10. Dealing only 40% damage most turns balances out with the better weapon missing most shots outright. The weapons are right scary late in battles, where every hit against exposed structure is rolling for critical damage. You can't outposition an AC/2, whichever of your mechs is the most at risk is going to be peppered with hits.
In tabletop I kind of feel like the AC/5 is the ugly duckling, with no decisive range advantage over much more damaging options like large lasers, PPCs, and AC/10. Ultra AC/5 does a lot to set that right of course.
@@jonbezeau3124
Agree.
While the AC/2 probably has the most obvious weaknesses of the four, it has a decisive niche.
The AC/5 is pretty plainly redundant. It is right in the middle of the competition between some of the most standard and competitive weapons in the game, and it really needs a lot of outside conditions to pull ahead. Even then, the AC/10 is usually still better in those conditions, unless extreme weight considerations are in play. The L Laser in particular, with some extra heat sinks does more damage, with better ranges, is more heat neutral overall, doesn't carry ammo, has fewer crit spots, and is STILL overall lighter. You really need a situation where the low absolute heat generation of the AC 5 matters, like on something with lots of jets and M or S lasers.
That said, I do think the LBX 5 is probably my favorite LBX. Losing the big chunk of single target damage of the AC/20 defeats the entire point, and it's still a big loss for the AC10, and the LBX 2 is one of the most puzzling weapons I've encountered, but the LBX 5 hits that sweet spot of not giving up the big chunk of damage, but really benefiting from the other perks of LBX. I still sometimes have a hard time picking an LBX over missiles, but, meh.
Haven't tinkered with Rotaries yet, but I imagine the Rotary AC5 can do terrifying things.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 AC/5 has same range as PPC, LL has same as AC10. Larges are generally better than AC/5, but without double heat sinks AC5s do have some use. They're very heat efficient for the damage they put out, which makes them a generalist weapon. Generally you can use them when a PPC is too hot but you want more range than an LL.
They're meant for mech builds where bracketing isn't going to be used. Eg, as soon as you have the heatsinks to fire 4 MLs, use a PPC unless you need that extra 5 pt damage.
This is a good volume imo! ty!!
The JM-6S does have _one_ single advantage over the Rifleman, the dual AC2s can be loaded with AP for some nice assault hunting and the fact that the AC5s carry two tons of ammo means that if you so choose you can swap one of those bins for flachette if you really hate infantry and woods hexes, AP if you're fighting stuff with particularly heavy armor, or AA if you really hate fliers.
Still worse than the Rifleman overall but I think that the Rifleman only carrying one ton of ammo for the autocannons is somewhat limiting not only for lack of specialty munitions but also since it means that ammo becomes an issue somewhat quickly whereas the Jagermech doesn't really have that issue. Of course the Rifleman can torso twist and the Jager can't unless you're playing with the redesigns so that's a serious bummer.
Here's what I don't understand: the Archer, the Warhammer and the Rifleman all came from the same source (Macross), yet the WHM and ARC are 70 but the RFL is only 60. Why? I feel that many of the Rifleman's problems would be solved with those extra 10 tons, although I confess I haven't tried to build one.
Rifleman is half decent imo. But I expect it's that way because Mechs are flawed. :)
The earliest mechs were initially designed under slightly different build rules. From what I remember mechs didn't get the 10 free heatsinks, weapons heat was different, and movement had heat curves. It's why in the first novels the Locust is described as constantly overheating while Marauders slinged PPCs effortlessly and Riflemen were consummate badasses.
A truly iconic Battlemech design, even if the battle result can be mixed.
In the HBS game I use the Jägermech JM-6A as a heavy recon/spotter/interdiction 'mech. Here is what it looks like.
*Weapons:*
- 4 x Inferno++ Missile Launchers
- 2 x Flamers++
- 1 x Medium Laser+++ or 1 x ER Medium Laser
- 1 x TAG++ (Optional: Another laser per above or 1 x Medium Pulse Laser)
*Equipment:*
- 4 x Jump Jets (right torso, left torso, legs)
- 1 x Gyro++ (-30% Stability)
- 1 x Cockpit Mod++ (Rangefinder is an option but dangerous as you'll see)
- 2 x Double Heat Sinks
- 1 x TTS+++ (+3 Accuracy to Missiles)
- Optional: 4 x Arm Mods (So long as they are 0 ton); 2 x Leg Mods (also 0 ton)
*Armor:* Maximum Armor (With this load out you'll be over by 0.39 tons so deduct 0.13 tons from the three rear armor facings. You're gonna need it!)
*Pilot Skills Preference:* Stats maxed in Gunnery and Tactics, specifically Multi-Targeting, Sensor Lock, Master Tactician
*Tactics:* The Jägermech leads the lance as heavy recon/spotter. On movement to contact the pilot sensor locks the lead target for an early hit (hopefully you have long range assets to do it with). Jumping to medium range with the lead enemy 'mech you can _entirely shut it down_ with the Inferno Missile Launchers. Ideally doing so to the most dangerous 'mech in the enemy lance. But regardless, it's 25% of the enemy lance taken offline for 1-2 turns. You have the option to target either the other 'mechs with your one called shot or knee cap (or headshot) the shut down 'mech with the rest of your lance. Remember all shots vs. a shut down mech are called shots. Using the TAG accelerates damage by 20%. If the enemy fires first, you may be able to effectively neutralize two 'mechs at a time by shooting two and running their heat to nearly shut down so they're forced to use only their lowest heat generating weapons, if any at all. As the scenario matures, you may even shut down two or even three at once using the Infernos and the Flamers. Hence the pilot's need for Multi-Targeting ability. Note a human opponent - and sometimes even the computer - will ID the Jägermech as THE primary threat once it shuts down a mech. From then on the Jägermech becomes an absolute drek magnet. (The rest of your lance is safe so long as it's up.) This is why the pilot should be a Master Tactician so he or she can go a round early. ALWAYS jump max jump for those 4 precious movement modifiers and use cover when possible. Try to keep it out of walking range except for shots you know will shut down the enemy. Otherwise they WILL physically attack. Be sparing with the laser as even it will overheat the Jägermech after a few turns. Keep a strong mech with lots of medium/short range firepower close by to take advantage of those shut down mechs, soak enemy firepower and watch the Jägermech's back. Note that if you can't get the "best of the best" weapons and equipment to mount, even the average versions will be severely difficult for the enemy.
*Pairing:* I like to pair this 'mech with Marauders because their Lance Command Module doubles their odds of hitting a called shot. Preferably 3 x Ultra AC2s for maximum range and hit probability. (35% chance of hitting the head for a pilot with the max gunnery attribute!) With skill you can sometimes take out one or more of the enemy lance using the Jägermech to sensor lock them and use the Marauders to pelt them from outside their range envelope.
*Weakness:* This Jägermech design's primary weakness is the limited ammo. Once the Inferno missiles are gone it's neutered and the Flamers will be out sooner than them. Also, Jägermech arms are weak even with max armor. If the BT universe was real I doubt any faction would use this as it's only good for one or two firefights.
*Alternative 'Mechs:* This load out can be roughly duplicated on the Griffin, the Catapult, the Stalker and some Cyclops variants. Though each has their differences. You can't mount a Gyro on the Catapult and have the lasers. The Griffin is faster but it lacks armor and you must sacrifice one or two weapons or equipment. The Stalker and the Cyclops are slow. They can't carry Flamers though one variant of the Cyclops can carry an extra Inferno rack or two and both can carry additional weapons and armor.
I prefer the Jagermech over the Rifleman any day of the week. It has range advantage and can sit at the edge of the board pinging opponents and crit seeking, while the enemy ignores it because they think it is weak. Most engagements last no more than 15 turns, so ammo isn't an issue and heat is definitely not an issue. Add to that a low BV value and it's an excellent support mech for brawlers.
The Rifleman can deliver some hits that make people think twice. The Jagermech does not. :(
In MW5, these things are significantly harder to fight then a Riflemen because they can engage you at further ranges with AC/2s and the head doesn't stick out like The Riflemen's so headshotting it is way harder. The profile of the guns are also smaller so disarming it is more difficult as well.
All of this means you need to somewhat concentrate fire onto a Jaegermech to put it down via volume of fire till it breaks, or rip its legs off, and they are most commonly deployed in groups of two.
I remember getting one in HBS Battletech and turning it in to a LRM boat with basically no armor. It worked really well for its job. Of course the AI did target my three other mechs upfront over it so...
Love this thing in MW5. Kit it with four AC/2s, and you can shoot about as fast as you can click. Deletes air units, deletes terrain, and if you can track an enemey's head for about 3 seconds it'll delete most mechs too.
I love this 'Mech! I find it so charming and awesome, I salvaged one from the (hated) Davions in MW5 and love just smashing the enemy with it.
In the basic model it's terrible. In the LRM configuration it's pretty decent.
In my alternate 3050 configuration, it's kinda scary. Drop the AC 5's for PPC'S, make the Heat sinks double and add one (22 HS capacity) and add the rest to armor. Now it's scary.
Jagermech in my mind appears to be a 'mech that works very well in some lore senses.
It excels in Anti Air which is a role that is important in lore and would prevent a lot of shenanigans they could do.
It also does well in asymmetric warfare. The glass cannon approach works very well for bullying lighter weight classes and at far - potentially even giving the ability to completely negate incoming damage all together.
Not to say this is the perfect mech design in the world for these jobs (after all you can argue a Rifleman that swaps AC/5's for AC/2's for more heatsinks covers a lot of the same basics and it boggles my mind this isn't a field mod or factory variant already. Alternatively dropping a large laser for ammo and things... that and Blackjacks also exist) but there are areas in setting where the mech does make sense and justifies it existing as long as it has.
The DD is a step in the right direction (personally having the medium pulse lasers stay as medium lasers and using those 2 tons for armour would've done wonders...) but I am surprised lore wise we see a lack of any of the advanced technologies going directly to improving it's survivability but I suppose this is because of the 70 ton variants filling that niche.
I just figured out the point of this mech thanks to a comment on another video.
The Rifleman was taken out of its support role and put into the front lines. So they came up with a mech that no one would be willing to put in the front lines.
Thus the supply lines manage to retain some sort of mech to defend them. No one wants to "borrow" the Jagermech. They can put it next to the gempirary airfield and let it defend the reinforcements from aerospace assets.
...probably cheaper just to get an AA vehicle.
The only good thing about the JM6 is that it led to the JM7.
best part of this mech is you can tell what they were drinking in the design that was a larger rifleman that can't torso twist
Edit: hold up, they made a heavy that has ammo explosions have so little armor that a medium could core it or a Jenner could scratch all of its armor with a lucky roll? And somehow it does less dakka then the rifleman? I was joking about the drinking, yeesh
The Double-D is a lot safer than most mechs thanks to CASE. It's also salvageable, which is likely its best selling point. From a procurement standpoint, the JM6-DD can throw out a large amount of shells quickly and if the position is overrun it'll soak some damage without risking the CT or head in most cases. As long as you win the engagement you cart the mech off to the FOB and replace the blown side torso. Pilot stays alive and can remain safe in the cockpit if they disabled the auto-eject functionality.
I never liked the Jagermech much, until I got one pretty much for free in HBS Battletech. I did a melee attack against one with a Centurion. My Centurion kicked its head in and I got it free as my salvage for the mission. It's a damn fine platform for standing far away and turning smaller 'mechs into Swiss cheese.
Damn, that Marian model is perfect. Start the party at range, and if anyone closes with you, you bring out the fireworks.
Jack in the box, Jack in the box,
Quiet and still.
Will you come out? Will you come out?
Yes I will!
(*for those who dont know when a tank explodes and the explosion of the ammo bursts through the top that is called a jack in the box*)
Who wants an Ammunition explosion? The Jagermech does!
8:05 "6 Rocketlauncher 15s", because being able to maintain your firepower doesn't really matter when you can take down an assault mech with your opening salvo. Talk about good bang for your buck
Oh yea, I didn't trash talk the Marian model. It has some good properties. And has armour.
Using a 6s in MW5 currently and having a blast. Gave it some endo and ferro slapped a bunch more armor on with the saved weight and with a double bin of ac5 ammo equalized my rounds between ac2 and 5. Great pinpoint damage that can quickly core or leg mechs and amazing at taking out vtols. Give me a lance of these refits an I'll show a clan star what's up in the inner sphere.
I don’t know why people hate it so much. It’s so fun to shoot at this thing.
Oh I don't hate it. But I gotta be honest about it.
"At"
Found it useful only in MWO where endosteel and light engine made it able to install 4 AC2 and 4 ER small lasers, or 2 LBX10 and 4 med lasers. In MW5 repairs are too expensive because the more expensive weapons go lost with the arms. Prefering the same ton Thunderbold.
This was the first heavy mech I got in MW5 I fell in love with it and bout another one the missile one so I had the AC one and would snipe with it and my friend was in the missile one but now I’ve replaced it with 2 warhammers
In Battletech it's possible to add in 4 lb-2x guns and an ER large or medium laser. The LB-2Xs make it a mini annihalator. You can update the mecht with better LB-2xs and add some much needed armor. The secondary version with the LRM racks tends to completely match this guy and the combo is a winner on long range. Give me a SRM kintaro for shortrange though or a nice centurion
I would run the DG model: two Gauss rifles with two medium lasers.
My Jagermech in MW5 has twin AC10s to leg most targets and I added as much armor as possible. It's not the best at taking damage, but it can last for a good fight.
Been a long since I played but the JM I liked turned the AC/5's to 2's. The extra weight, 4 tons, went into more armor. With all the ammo weight being for 1 ammo type you had lots of staying power. I also did my best to keep the JM at the back of the fight. Like the Rifleman, these Mechs do not belong anywhere near the frontline. Just because it had 2 ML's did not mean it should be using them for anything more than fighting off scouts that made it back to their lines along with the Archers and Rifleman Mechs.
The thought of the modern military putting and weapons system specializing in Anti-Air on the front lines with the Abrams Battle Tank is ridiculous. So why would you do it in Battletech unless you were either insane or desperate?
For anyone that thinks AC/2s are terrible weapons. Take out your Mech sheet and hit the head 5x and tell me what happens... yeah, the pilot is dead and unless the Critical Roll was successful you have a fully functional Battlemech that needs some new armor on the head and the cockpit hosed out. Even at 2 or 3 hits to the head the pilot has chance to be knocked out, making the Mech prone and much easier to be hit. My friend did this to me on a Thunderbolt.
A command lance with a Cyclops, 2 Archers, and a AC/2 JM could do a lot of damage at long range in support of other lances.
Some designer probably seen a rifleman and said "I can do better" and then didn't, and then because it was his creation couldn't see the problems or admit to them.
That ac2 guy here. I Run the jm6-s with 4 ac2s and as much armor as the mech lets me. Loved running this mech in early game mw5 when you not facing other heavies or assaults. Cus it's weak as heck.
In MW5, the AC2 performs MUCH better than the tabletop.
@@BigRed40TECH oh I bet. Though. I don't know the tabletop, or the customize ability of the mechs there.
@@wolfyhalfmoon819 You can customize whatever you want, but in-universe its extremely expensive, so most people ignore that, and just customize away. But it min-maxes the game and kinda breaks how it works.
Just started using the Jagermech in MWO, got that XL260 engine, x4 UAC2's and two medium lasers for point defense. The amount of ammo this thing has is awesome. With your 65 kph ish speed, find a hill or dip and use your high mounted auto cannons to deal quick bursts of damage to mechs out to 900 meters and then drop back before they can return fire. Rinse and repeat. When sustaining too much damage to a side torso, simply twist the opposite torso in front to spread damage. With the XL engine and light UAC's Im able to put decent armor, and make a durable enough mech for trading at range against bigger but less manuverable targets. Plus with the projectile speed of AC2's hitting faster mediums is easy as well.
A factory Jager is disappointing, as a mercenary with millions of bills to use, its become a useful tool in my long range arsenal
Custom mechs for MWO aren't quite what my videos are referencing when I'm regarding their performance to be fair.
@BigRed40TECH of course. I agree that I don't see any use in using one on the tabletop. I'll stick with close/midrange heavies like the Marauder and catapult for my Lance's core firepower
the most annoying thing of Jagermech in MWO is enemies are often easily killed me by destroying the cockpit because the "head" is literally in the center of center torso. Even with random shot from far away there's a good chance enemy will damage the head.
In my mind the mechs biggest flaw is the massive(seems to have massive center cockpit) when Playing Mechwarrior all you have to do is aim centermass, and the cockpit gets blown I out. Not to mention the 6 tons of armor on it.
I feel bad for any pilot that was assigned to it when put in a direct fire roll going up to any mech that can even remotely outgun it
I remember the jagermech in battletech for pc. I made it more of a glass cannon before I had the dlc stripped of almost all it's armor gave it 4 ac-5s and a crapload of ammo very dangerous for my enemies and for me. A well placed salvo could destroy almost any medium mech and some heavies lost the guns pretty regularly though.
I agree with your assesment though there's one variant that i like, and that's the AA variant , because i was able to downgrade theLRM-15's to LRM-10's or replace the LRM's with a pair of SRM-6's and put several tons of extra armor on her. As for the AC/2 it carries, i know how you feel about those but i personally enjoy firing the burst-fire cannons i put on one of those.
Imagine if there was a variant of this mech that is basically a heavy cousin to the Urbie and Annihilator with 2/3 or 3/5 movement, more armor, and twin AC20's, I would call it... the "Jagerbomb".
The JagerMech, in it's role, is actually quite solid. It drops aerospace assets like it's going out of style and provides constant AC fire against anything that lets itself remain a target for more than a round or two. Like the Rifleman, It only really sucks if you try to push it outside it's designated combat role.
This is one of the few designs that could have benefited from boating 4xAC/2s, the small decrease in overall damage gives it a large increase in overall range and allows it to beef up it's paltry armor. AC/2s on the tabletop are extremely underwhelming, but out range everything else in 3025 and have a tendency to be ignored until it's too late.
I kill them first to get an advantage in the initiative order.
I was just thinking why not make it with 4 x AC 2s? I remember using it so much from Mechcommander Gold as it was one of the starting mechs but trying to use it on Mech 5 I found it hard to use, but with some mods and popping an AI in it, they can quite effective long support/anti aircraft/vehicle mechs ^_^. I did find AC2's quite effect on BattleTech, especially with the black jack jumping to high ground and pop off shots!
I equipped a Jager with 4 AC/2s (in place of a couple of AC/5s) and maxed out its armor and gave it a shedload of ammunition. Its a cockpit deleter with that setup I love it and I can't handle no slander on my big chunky boi
Mechwarrior's not really reflective of the core game to be fair.
@@BigRed40TECH tru but its still fun
I honestly think its better then the rifleman, I've never seen a rifleman actually be effective but the UAC5 equipped jager rips things apart.
I'm worried that the Caldari Rokh-class battleship at 5:45 does not have its engines running. That's about 1,100 meters of spaceship that's about to fall.
“What if we made a BIGGER Blackjack” you mean
Incredibly rare? Somebody hasn't played MechWarrior 5. I can't get away from the damn things.
In universe the JM6-A is rare. :)
@@BigRed40TECH I know that. Don't make me batchall you. I'll do it by Kerensky!
@@aragos32727 I don't accept your Batchall.
@@BigRed40TECH you dare refuse my batchall! By the Falcons claws....
I kid I kid. I'm a Capellen. Like my knife? Hey... Look at that thing behind you... 🗡
@@aragos32727 Ironically, the other houses have betrayed people more than the Capellans do. It's a really weird reputaiton for them to get.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trust them. But I wouldn't trust ANYONE in Battletech.
The JM6-DD is no joke one of my favourite mechs in MWO.
Because with triple RAC-2 in one arm, triple light machine guns in the other... and two er medium lasers you can put some nasty daka into enemies at a pretty good range. And at short range pesky light mechs have to think twice about hunting you too.
is it the best? Certainly not, but i love that build.
MWO sadly, is not reflective of value in the tabletop game.
@@BigRed40TECH That's 100% true.
Both the tabletop and the online game vary a lot. But at the very least MWO is one of only a few PC games that at least tries to feed our Battletech cravings.
I mean i like the Jagermech from a design point of view, but his stats (lorewise) really aren't that good. Heck, even in the tabletop the mech isn't exactly a fan favourite.
Based on your thoughts on the AC2, I can't wait to see what you have to say about the Mauler.
Multiple this video by 2, and add more ammo explosions. :D
The DD could be workable - if they had settled for regular (or even ER!) medium lasers instead of pulses and just let the AC2s share a ton of ammo like it had before and placed those three free tons into armor. It’d still be a second line mech of course, but wouldn’t crumple in a stiff breeze while retaining the strengths of the armaments.
It’s a bit puzzling. Like the NARC beacon on the clan wars Trebuchet - I mean, it’s nice to have but not exactly conducive to the second line nature of the Trebby.
I get the same thought looking at the pulse lasers on the Jagermech - that’s nice and all, but wasted tonnage on the second line when you’re far from effective range of those pulse lasers. Ideally, your Jager is going to be far enough from the fight that the upgrade is unnecessary.
Armor to stand up to return fire would be far better.
I legit screamed in frustration when I saw the JM6-DD went with pulse lasers rather than ER Mediums and 2 additional tons of armor.
Only the JM6-DG/DGr, JM7-D, and JM7-G have have the reliable range and fire power to justify having so little armor on a direct fire support mech.
IS didn't have ER medium lasers in 3049.
@@BigRed40TECH You are correct my bad, I thought it was LosTech I forgot it was clans refining the ER tech from the Large Lasers onto other size lasers... (Which make sense I guess since the Large Laser is a Graser and the Small and Medium are Free-Electron Lasers.)
Still, only half a ton of additional tissue paper on the DD is just stupid, and upping the the close in armament on such a fragile machine (that isn't fast enough to compensate with evasion) is just stupid.
I sure wouldn't want to go up against a Kaiju in that thing! Oh wait, wrong franchise! 😉
One thing it does have going for it though is that sweet spoiler. Adds at least 15 horse power!
i shouldve seen this before buying a DD in MWO, buyers remorse sought in immediately