Flat Earth "Science" -- Wrong, but not Stupid
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video I explain what flat earthers believe, why they believe it, and why I think scientists should take flat earthers more seriously.
The CNN article which I quote is here:
edition.cnn.com/2019/11/16/us...
The Guardian article which I quote is here:
www.theguardian.com/global/20...
The poll that I mention is this:
today.yougov.com/topics/philo...
Support me on Patreon: / sabine
#science #education #philosophy
0:00 Motivation and Content Summary
0:33 What Flat Earthers Believe
2:43 Are They just Trolling?
3:46 History
7:26 The Trouble with Zeteticism
13:46 Why you are right to reject the Flat Earth Hypothesis
14:55 Why scientists should take Flat Earthers more seriously - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
hi , im a 10 year old and i have watched every single of your videos they are lovely
as my interest in heavenly and interstellar bodies i love to hear you talking about so much of information
thx a lot for sharing all this knowledge
;w;
It would have been awesome to have sabine's videos when I was a kid, I used to read the same astronomy book over and over, it was my only sceintific knowledge source.
I’m 33, with a BS biology & PharmD.
Also watched every video and learn something new each time.
Danke schön Dr. Hossenfelder
You are doing right by yourself and your peers on earth to be learning so much! 34 y/o stranger very proud and impressed by your statement.
Your vocabulary is really good for a 10 year old.
dude, Moon is flat!
Someone once said that: “If the earth was flat then cats would have pushed everything off by now”
They do anything for a bit of attention don't they!
My cat tries to act seductive to get attention but now it just hides in the cupboard since my father pushed his powerful stem right in its little brown button
And somebody else said: Risus abundat in ores stultorum.
@@cabbagefart7432 To which I reply. respondeat superior. And since you are not one. You should learn to listen meus puer discipulus. I'll take it, you have no explanation or understanding of the standard model. IT is always a bore to see claims made that never have any scientific bases. Be advised young one I have no such shortcomings. What would you like to learn?
it's flat all right the horizon is at least 5 times further out than it should be . the horizon test is the test for flat earth and the globe fails badly every time . the horizon does not move from its position , which is at least 20 miles away , to where it should be which is 3 and a half miles if you're 8 feet above the ocean . no curvature to the ocean - flat
Question everything...but be prepared to accept the answers.
@Flat Eric Because that's how knowledge works.
@Flat Eric OK...I missed that!
Yes even if the answers are assumptions, non-scientific, misrepresentation
@@handtech3423 Of course not. That's what you have a brain for, to sift through the rubbish and come to a conclusion.
What conclusion did you come too. A pressurized ball next to a vacuum spinning and we came from monkeys.
I appreciate how you treat people with respect and do not just dismiss people as being stupid. You are a great educator and truly care about helping people understand science.
Albert Einstein said that human stupidity is infinite. When you consider him living during the time of 2 world wars, his comment is understandable.
it's just a show, she is deceiving you
Another example is Susan Blackmore, who writes critically but sympathetically about those who've had anomalous experiences that they interpret in nonscientific ways.
in regards to theory of relativity, albert einstein also claimed that gravity is a "Scheinkraft" (which is german for "it appears to be a force of its own when it's not") so why do you quote these people if you have no idea about them or physics... that's exactly the stupidity Einstein was referring to. @@bobs182
But, flat earthers ARE stupid... 😆
My own experience tells me, by watching ships sail over the horizon, by driving towards the mountains and watching how they also look small then taller and taller as we go over the curvature of the earth and get closer to them. And looking at the other planets and a simple understanding of gravity tells me that we are on a globe.
You're confusing Perspective watching Ships disappear. It's just mans limited vision over distances.The Water is always level and the Sun doesn't rise or Set.The Sun is always level when it comes into view.It travels parallel to the Flat Earth until it is no longer visible to the human eye.Globeheads call that Sunset.Wrong!
@@ronpapi9539Just shut up.
Yes, we all thought exactly like you at one point.
Take a high-zoom camera and what do you know... that ship that appeared to have gone over a curve can be zoomed right back into plain view. Tried, tested and demonstrated many times over and is an indisputable fact.
@@alexc-man7711 Nope. It does not. And it is not.
15:30
"To me, therefore, flat earthers, are a warning sign that scientists should take seriously. The more difficult scientific experiments and arguments are to follow for non-experts, the more care we must take to explain how we lead those arguments."
That's an incredibly well put conclusion.
@@tribouletr
th-cam.com/video/aB2RTRd46us/w-d-xo.html
I tried it myself, and sure enough - hilarious 😅
Unfortunately, Google have since de-ranked their preferred top result. Still pretty funny.
yea its an interesting dichotomy. To a layman like me I often find scientific topics over my head to fuel my sense of wonder and curiosity, whereas other's view the same with skepticism or even fall back on supernatural explanations which - to me - seem even more implausible..
The hard part is scientists would have to take into account the varying degree of intelligence of the audience and perhaps more frustrating, their degree of accepting evidence disproving their personal thoughts or feelings. For flat earthers, a lot of them just don’t want to believe anything coming from any government agency or religious entity.
@@fredman1085 I agree, that's the challenge, a challenge which could have been lessened or avoided if the education systems were improved. Obviously there is many factors involved in why so many people today seem to doubt many established truths despite not being able to understand the evidence.
The Earth has NO curvature.
CONVEX EARTH THE DOCUMENTARY
CONVEX EARTH TECHNICAL DATA
(Convex Earth - youtube chanel)
“no one cared…… he died.” omg sabine is peak german humor.
totally agree! The first couple videos i thought she was dry and humorless; didn't like the videos much. Then it struck me, she's actually quite the comedian, just *incredibly* dry and wry. I love it.
Hillary Clinton would be proud.
@@jeremybasil241 DA LIBERALS ARE BAAD !!!!!11111!!!!! FOX NEWS SAID SO!!!!111111
@@orionSpacecraft the Aliens are comming 😆😆
10:55 The “it is not” caught me off guard it was so funny
Many of us are fascinated with flat earthers.
Flat earth is dumb as rocks, but flat earthers are fascinating.
stereóma: a solid body, a support, strength, firmness.
or firmament over the FLAT earth
@@007ullrich Why do you put it in capital letters? Do you think someone will miss that word when reading the sentence, or are you just yelling the word "FLAT!!!"?
Post any Earth Curvature either by Land or Sea.FE'ers are spot on.Water doesn't cling to a 1000 mph spinning ball.
@ronpapi9539 imagine a tiny toy car. Its wheels would need to complete a ridiculous number of rotations to get thousands of miles per hour.
Now blow that up to a wheel the size of earth. It competes only 1/24th of a rotation by the time that little wheel on the toy car completes hundreds of thousands of rotations.
It's not a ball that's spinning at ridiculous rates. It's a slow rate of rotation, just on an extremely large scale.
Besides that, just the idea that we're on a floating disc is silly. If it's all free falling, or accelerating upwards, or however you'd like to think of it-- how would you account for everything in the heavens to be moving around both in their orbits that we see, but also somehow staying along with our trajectory? What I mean is, why would there be stars or planets or anything? Why wouldn't it all have fallen out of view by now? Did something just smack everything simultaneously with a paddle, then give every heavenly body a different spin and arbitrarily assigned orbits?
And why would all the different bodies maintain the same constant velocity? How would rockets or planes even work? How would we have air? It's all just a little silly. If flat earth requires empirical evidence, then the only world that could be believed in would be the bits that my person has personally seen. I would have to believe that you don't really exist, because I'd never met you, the place you live couldn't possibly be real, etc. etc.
Just-- Mercury, or even Venus-- that's one you can actually see with your eyes-- how, without evoking gravity-- does it orbit the sun, but also the sun is just moving around above a disc-- but also everything is moving relative to a disc at a constant velocity-- it just doesn't make sense at all. I have never seen anything behave like that ever...
Like... Last example... I can soak a basketball, bounce it to you with a spin on it, and you'd catch a wet basketball. If I threw a flat disc at you, and somehow made it fly perfectly oriented vertically in your direction-- the water would fall off almost completely. Think of a windshield in the rain. The rain doesn't just puddle up and stay there. It slips off the windshield.
It just seems like a bigger task to try and figure out how to make the flat earth model fit with reality than it does to fit the current scientific model. The science works, it's observable, the maths aren't just this Charlie Day conspiracy theorists evidence board that only make sense to a special group of people-- they are things that any person can actually put to the test on their own and can be applied to all sorts of things in the physical world. All of the products of modern technology are the result of the same physics that we used to prove the earth is a spheroid.
@@tykinn
imagine accents in new yoke...i do.
still flat , never will be otherwise, but wise I will remain , here's the truth in front of you and yet you deny.
There rapidly comes a point where you save whom you can , and allow the storm to take the remaining.
Galatians 5:1
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”
Being targeted is an honor, it tells me I'm over the target and striking darts and arrows.
Well put ma'am!! You are absolutely brilliant! Thank you for your time in putting this video together! Thank you for having the ability to articulate, communicating, in a brilliant, fair, reasonable, explanation of the flat earthers, and how they are most likely thinking.
When I was 5 years old, my father looked enormous, When I was 18, he was 2 inches shorter than me. Therefore he gradually shrank over 13 years. Of course, it also meant that the shelf I could never reach gradually moved down the wall until I could reach it, my clothes grew smaller as time went on... and, well round about my mid-teens, my senses adjusted so that I seemed to get bulkier and stronger as I played rugby and cricket and ran cross-country, but obviously this was a myth. All the people around me just got frailer and weaker, the furniture shrank, as did streetlights, buildings and animals.
It's the only thing that makes sense, since I am the centre of the universe, and the essential founder of reality.
I am simply a bot to make your existence more real.
I am honored as a bot to meet the actual real individual!
Now to pretend to do stuff to make your existence feel more real
This is probably the best example I've seen of this philosophy taken to its obvious conclusions.
@@sacr3 hello fellow bot. I agree we should make our founder of reality feel comfortable with us. So we need to act like similar to him
@@DarkyBoy hello other fellow bot, my shrinking device is not working, May I request an update as my communication to the hive mind is also broken.
@@someotherworldlybeing3167 request accepted meetup at the base in at 10 lunar time
Beautifully clear and well communicated viewpoint - a far better rebuttal of flat earthers than the 'Hey everyone, let's laugh at these idiots' stance that many out there take. Thank you for taking the time and effort!
You know that laughing at idiots is a time honoured tradition?
@@dirkardostevergreen4827 Be that as it may, I was thanking Sabine for making the effort to educate rather than mock.
Many you say? Shirley you jest!
Woah Max, didn't expect to see you! Patreon subscriber here :D
I believe all the FE/Globe stuff all started with genuine people seeking truth and rebutting flawed logic. But FE died a few years ago. Now all that is left are people making money on FE, people making money making fun of FE, and poor misguided souls who get caught up one way or the other in the money making machine. The biggest names on both sides spend a lot of time rebutting each other in an attempt to dive viewers to each others channels. They often guest star on each others channels to 'debate'. Its just a pointless exercise that will continue as long as there is money to be made. FE stars of today cannot admit they were wrong because its their job.
Such a great video ❤ I love the meticulous approach while keeping things simple 👍
What a fantastic way to look at it, and these ideas. Much respect. We could all use a bit of this toward those who don't think the same as we do.
Rather then being entirely dismissive, you make an effort to understand people’s thinking, even if they’re wrong. You’re respect toward others is admirable, you educate rather then insult - insults only hardens people’s hearts and minds.
This is why i like her videos, it's not what you think!
Wish I could like this twice.
Surely after all this time we must have reliable photo images of earth from far out it space. If not, then I suppose flat earthers have a good case that there is a conspiracy going on.😮
@@doranmcferran9663
The science of Earth is called Geodesy, Earth has been measured and is not flat.
Any alternative idea about Earth must:
1) provide argument and evidence what Geodesy does wrong
2) provide better models than Geodesy/Astronomy models which is very hard since the current scientific models are very good at explaining all related natural phenomena
When and how can the earth (it's really big) be measured?
Zeteticism: A spoon is cut while half submerged in a glass of water and is rejoint when you take it out.
An apt allusion.
Look, look, water on the desert! What do you mean by 'mirage' - I SEE water!
Lmfao, exactly.
"There is no spoon"😌
No it actually just bends 🤷😏😝
So well presented-like all of your videos. Appreciate your effort to make science understandable for most of us.
You are right, but knowing the earth is round is as easy as looking up at the moon and wondering how there is a shadow cast on it.
So, i would rather point this out to the failures of the educational system.
Agreed, but not all the blame can be put on educational systems. They are fighting an increasingly losing battle with social media.
@@therealzilch It's a fair point. The disinformation out there is vicious.
There are flat-earthers who sell the t-shirts and the others that buy them.
Lol
Well said
There is no business like flat earth business.😂✌️
Good for them.
Flat earthers don’t sell the shirts, someone just saw a way to make easy money
Love this human being. The most caring and respectful debunking possible. Dánke.
If you only accept evidence that you can collect, it is a reflection of YOUR ability, not on reality. The fact that you personally cannot prove that pi is an irrational number does not change the fact that it is.
In my opinion, this "trust"-problem is not only true for scientific topics, but also many other things in our society. We get so specialised that there will be a point where you have to rely on another person. This doesn't mean you should trust them blindly - but if you want to check everything yourself, right down to the basics, it would be a never ending story.
Absolutely. One thing I've started understanding as I went through college is how almost everyone could help me my freshmen year, and now my teachers struggle to help with some of their own assignments.
Another thing has been the realization that there are people a lot smarter than me, but due to our different fields, I know a lot more about my own field than they would ever care to know...but they still think they can do it better than me than I can. I have no doubts that they could if they put the same time I did, but they invested their time somewhere else, and there just isn't enough time in a single lifetime for anyone to be good at everything.
It's okay to be good at one thing, just as long as you have others to trust to be good at their thing
Amen
Absolutely true. When it comes to simple things like the Earth being round, that's easy to verify. Launch a drone, send it way up.
It becomes more difficult when there's a global pandemic and a small group of people tell you to put something in your blood that they won't tell you what it is. Distrust arises. =\
Google and TH-cam are one sided on FE Videos.Only Debunkers of FE are allowed on their pages.Monopolize your brain with Scientific Speculation designed for low IQ's.
@@JoshuaMartinez-ml5hl Donald Trump...exception to your rule.
Well, I'm 71 and I have only watched a few of your videos so far, but I love the fact that you've shown me that I am still capable of learning - and enjoying it. Thanks again, Sabine.
I am an aerospace engineer and private pilot supporting the fact the earth is flat and stationary. Education is indoctrination. Big bang, evolution, relativity, gravity theories are all lies designed to sell the fake spinning, moving globe to the masses.
Hollywood is a great keyboard on which the government can play. It is also a mighty wand from which spells are broadcast.
‘Govern mental’ literally means ‘mind control.’ Universities kill diversity.
Attitudes, behaviors, thoughts, mannerisms, memes are mass controlled through the broadcast.
Simultaneous levels and layers of programming are being broadcast into the population telling them who to worship, inverting right and wrong, true and false, displacing reality to replace it with a virtual and alternate reality as far as the mind of the population can be manipulated, which is very far.
People are extremely malleable. Children are even more impressionable.
Einstein meant it when he said that imagination is more important than knowledge. He wanted for us to stay asleep in the imaginary, inverted world that they created for us; some call it the matrix, others call it the zeitgeist, this erroneous perception of our world and universe. Yet this perception is part of the collective consciousness that was put together through the broadcasting of spells. As long as whatever inhabits the mind of the population is imaginary and detached from reality then the controllers have nothing to fear as far their control system goes.
From birth, the population is tuned in to the wavelengths the authors of the system (i.e. the authorities) broadcast from their Hollywood wands. As the RHCP once said, space may be the final frontier but it's made in Hollywood basement. Only by awareness of this manipulation can you resist the big inversion.
They live, while we sleep. Food for thought. Bon apathy.
☝️An aerospace engineer that denies the physics one needs to have knowledge of in order to be a successful aerospace engineer.
You cannot make this stuff up. 🤣
i'm 60yo but still curios
@@marindancirco6498 I'm 72 now, and the only thing I'm curious about here is how some people can still maintain that they believe that the Earth is flat. It defies logic. They're either liars, deluded, or mentally deranged.
@@napoleonbonapathy6943 Your world view is dark and sinister. Keep it to yourself.
4:36 _"The world looks flat"_ It doesn't though. If you look off into the distance, tall things clearly disappear below the horizon. And if you go up higher, you can see a bit further, but there's still a horizon. So either the Earth is round, or light somehow curves away from it.
So according to the flat earth's scientific theory, if the sun revolves around the surface of our flat earth, how come we see the sun rising from the horizon and setting on the other horizon? According to ancient beliefs, the sun revolved around the flat earth, hiding below earth, not going in circles above us
The flat earth logic there is simply the size of the sun and how far its light reaches. In heliocentrism, the sun is 93,000,000 miles away and something like 2.7 million miles in diameter. That massive size would easily light up an entire face of the globe earth, until we rotate and face the opposite direction.
Now on the geocentric model, the sun is much smaller (33 miles in diameter if I'm not mistaken) and local, very close to us. Therefore, it's not nearly as big and its light can only reach so far in all directions.
With that said, moving to your original thought... flat Earth logic says instead of the sun setting behind the curve as we spin, the sun is simply moving away, converging into the horizon until it shrinks out of view.
It's hard to explain, but picture this. Ships disappear from the bottom up, as if they are going over a physical curve. Yet with a camera that has a strong enough zoom, you can zoom the entire ship top to bottom back into full view.
If you are at a beach looking out into a vast open sea, and you look straight forward, the sky will be directly in front of you. However, the sky is not directly in front of you, but directly above you. Yet it would appear to be in front of you in the far distance because everything converges into the vanishing point of the horizon. By flat earth logic, this is what the sun is doing - disappearing into the vanishing point of the horizon and taking its local light along with it.
@@alexc-man7711
So many factually incorrect claims in your post:
1) The heliocentric and geocentric model are cosmological model not model of the Solar System
2) The geocentric model in fact doesn't claim the Sun is small and local at all but that the Sun orbit Earth , which is false
3) you: "Therefore, it's not nearly as big and its light can only reach so far in all directions."
False, the size of a body is not the limiting factor for how far the light can travel.
4) you: "Ships disappear from the bottom up, as if they are going over a physical curve. Yet with a camera that has a strong enough zoom, you can zoom the entire ship top to bottom back into full view."
Blatantly false, no telescope can zoom in on any boat 100 km away from the observer.
5) you: "However, the sky is not directly in front of you, but directly above you. "
The Horizon is where sky and Earth meet, the sky is also in front an observer
6) you: "because everything converges into the vanishing point of the horizon."
False, the vanishing point is not a scientific concept, it only refers to a type of projection of an image over an arbitrary plane.
The vanishing point doesn't physically represent anything real.
7) you: "the sun is doing - disappearing into the vanishing point of the horizon "
They basically claim the Sun get small are small as it moves away until it disappear which is ridiculous since very basic observations show the size of the Sun is constant. Ops.
As Sabine explained "ad hoc" explanations are unscientific , what flat earthers are doing is to have ad hoc explanations for any observable phenomenon but not a single explanation that work for all phenomena.
Astronomy explained all phenomena with its Solar System Model.
The flat earth model need all sort of special explanations to try to be consistent with reality but failed.
P.S. "everything converges into the vanishing point "
*So parallel lines converge in a point?!?...ouch!*
A calm and precise rebuttal without mocking-- that signifies the quality of a well-established scientist. Great talk!
Unfortunately, it will do absolutely nothing to some Flat Earthers who aren't looking for reason.
Anything against their philosophy is fake news regardless of how much sense it makes.
Would be interesting if she would address climategate. She'd lose half her viewers and her job, though.
@@psychohist I'd say her thoughts on the topic were sufficiently expressed here though: th-cam.com/video/-fkCo_trbT8/w-d-xo.html
Also, I'd say you're overstating the importance of the topic. The thing in question pretty much mostly concerns people who are trying to prove a point by any means necessary (a.k.a. conspiracy theorists) and some people who are genuinely interested in the topic but don't understand the subject material enough to be able to decipher it. The latter are probably the majority of the people, but I'd say the vast majority of them has no strong feelings on the topic so I really would not expect many unsubscribes either way, but at the same time, she is a German scientist, working for a German private-public institute called Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies. They do not deal with climate science so I highly doubt they would even care about her videos at all, let alone would they believe it somehow impacts on her work which is in a totally different area in the first place.
@@manofculture8666 so what? who cares?
@@shellderp When we live in a world where kids believe the Earth is flat, we'll care lol. Their community is growing.
This is the most polite and conscientious response to the flat earthers I have ever seen. Bravo. You are truly an excellent science communicator and go to great lengths to respect your audience and potential audience.
look behind the mask !
Very well said!
@@JohnWatsonFlatEarth It is you, it is I
Absolutely agree 👍
If only the respect was reciprocated.
I've found, when teaching a subject, it helps to have an extensive number of ways to explain the same concept. Re-Teach the subject until they GET IT. I love the job you're doing.
Of course you probably include participation in relevant experiments as part of your teaching. Regarding the Earth's shape, a good one is the worldwide Eratosthenes project, in which schools participate each year on the equinoxes.
You can only teach someone who wishes to learn. Flat Earthers need to believe you're a 'sheep' and they're the actually smart people.
Ex flat earther here. For some like myself It's lack of knowledge, lack of understanding, thinking you know something you don't for example how the physics would be when it isn't. For example...we rotating 1000mph at the equator... no that's tangential speed and we don't feel speed (when you mention the higher speeds for eg going around the sun etc then they think we should feel the movement...
Some are honestly lost especially the newcomers... those who have been in it for years and had things explained and demonstrated many times and many different ways are just liars, trolls and grifters, possibly some with biases and cognitive dissonance they can't or won't overcome or even realise they have. I realised my lack of knowledge and understanding and biases and cognitive dissonance and along with the help of others and chatgpt and fixed it.
There's also those who look up to some as idols and want to impress them and so will not disagree with them in the slightest and stay stuck in fe.
Oh and one more thing attacking flat earthers name calling etc doesn't help it only puts the walls/defences up more.
The problem is that even being nice to flatters doesn't matter - they just "fake", "CGI" and "perspective" whenever they are at a loss for words. It's been my experience that flatters here just like being anti-, i think it finally gives them a sense of "smartness".
Thanks, Rachie. Having been active in this debate for over 10 years, I know that all too many debunkers have become so emotionally invested in their mantra of "FEs are irremediably inferior to us 'smart people' and will never reach a level where they can be reasoned with", that they (such debunkers) would prefer not to be told of ex-FEs like yourself.
But for the benefit of debunkers who want to be more effective, could you give us a few example of people and resources who were most helpful to you?
@@JimSmithInChiapas : How about flat earthers at least attempt to do research into their claims about their own model? That is, without just making stuff up or complaining about why should be expected to prove anything.
@@kitcanyon658 I can't control what FEs do, so I'm asking what *_we_* can do. Starting with listening to ex-FEs like Rachie.
There's no Top Gear or Grand Tour special about going to the edge of the world. That's pretty good evidence for a round world.
NO edges on our Flat Realm.Its infinitely Flat.
"..they refuse to decode difficult sensory input." I guess we have different definitions of stupid.
Stupid is a too much broad term. It's more a trust issue. Mixed with narcissim and a little paranoia.
@Vinnie P Imagine you have trust issues so big that you literally don't believe anything and anybody except what you see with your own eyes. Imagine how that can affect your beliefs.
The problem with flat earthers (and in common with other conspiracy theorists) is not that they believe in a flat Earth, the real problem is that they honestly believe that billions of people are trying to fool them.
@Vinnie P And the giant-wall-of-ice theory is "stupid" because why?
Is the giant-wall-of-ice theory really an inherent part of every flat-earth theory? I am aware of two such theories (thus they are contradictory, of course). I don't see why an ice wall would be necessary "so we can't fall off"
I'm fine for flat-earthers or any human beings being stupid because they can learn someday. But being delusional or constantly paranoid, you need medical attention.
@NexusGen Inc. I agree, but i think that condition is closer to narcissism than to megalomania.
Narcissists only know two subjects: themselves and the world. They have a tough time imagining how other people interact without him. For them, two people conspiring and two million people conspiring is all the same.
Of course, it's much possible to be a narcissist AND a megalomaniacal.
old, but still an excellent video. thank you, Sabine!
As to "trusting your own senses" above all else, any Flat Earther should be grateful that the pilot flying the airliner they fly in does not do that. The reports of pilots who don't trust instruments above personal senses often end with a plane being flown at full speed into the ground while the pilots thought they were going up because inertial forces working on their inner ear told them they were.
There's another little experiment flat earthers and indulge in, if it's not too expensive for them. Go to the west coast of America and fly the polar route to Europe. The Earth is not a perfect sphere, but a bit egg shaped with the pointy part at the North Pole. Go, check it out for yourself with your own two eyes. I personally have seen the curvature of the globe at about 44,000 feet there during daylight hours.
Unless I'm a conspiratorial liar or something like that...
A friend of mine blew my mind a few years ago when he announced that he was 20% open to the idea of Hollow Earth and about 5% open to the idea of Flat Earth. Now, this guy has always have a bit of a conspiracy theory bent to him, but he's NOT dumb. He's an electrical engineer and very smart. Like Sabine said, it's not driven by stupidity.
I think like any group there's a diversity of motivations, but for him and those like him. I think there's a dopamine hit that comes from feeling like you know something other people don't. When presented with an argument that human wisdom is wrong, his mind WANTS to believe because of how cool it would be to be among those who 'find the truth'. And as any con man or psychic will tell you, the easiest people to fool are the ones who WANT to be fooled.
I tried debunking the hollow earth claims via an email...that I learned he never read. I rebutted some of his flat earth claims in person...but they didn't really take. He seemed to have second thoughts when I told him that the classical greeks knew the earth was round and described the experiment they used to measure how big it was and that they came shockingly close for how imprecise their tools were. But that quickly faded and had no lasting impression. It was confirmation bias in action. He couldn't let go of that belief that maybe, JUST MAYBE....everything we know is wrong. And how cool that would be to discover.
no electrical engineer that isn't suffering significant mental problems could ever fall for flattardia. flat earth arguments are something that no intelligent, educated person could ever fall for.
@@johnqpublic7608 But see, that's exactly the conclusion that is easy to jump to that Sabine was cautioning against. And I would have been right there with you...until my friend 'came out' to me on the topic. I promise you, he IS a smart guy, and if you met him, I promise you would agree. He's worked on some pretty interesting contracts and projects too over the years.
I'm not denying that SOME flat earthers are just in it because they're dim, or others because they think it supports their religious views...but those aren't this guy. I think it's an example that just because someone is smart, doesn't mean they aren't vulnerable to the biases and emotionally driven responses that can cloud everyone's thinking. Being smart doesn't mean you always reach the correct conclusions, and not everyone who reaches correct conclusions is smart.
@@brianmulholland2467 No, he's not a smart guy. He's broken inside, severely.
@@brianmulholland2467 I'm in a similar boat as your friend in regards to Hollow Earth Theory, but for me it's more a thought experiment than a belief. I have similar feelings about other 'alternate explanation' theories. For example, I don't actually believe Noah's Ark or the Garden of Eden are anything more than religious fairy tales, but I still entertain thoughts about the 'Mars Eden' and 'Noah's Ark Spaceship' theories.
Some other theories I like thinking about are the idea that dragons depicted in medieval art might have been some smaller dinosaurs that could have survived the meteor that killed them off only to be hunted to extinction by knights in the name of glory (there are historical records that talk about dragons as if they were real- sometimes going as far as to discuss their anatomy-and some depictions are no bigger than large dogs) and the idea that there might have been other inteligent species that evolved alongside humans only to be hunted down because they were different (because of how the 'uncanny valley' makes some people feel uneasy, and because I think it sounds like something humans would do).
If you held a gun to my head and asked if I could provide concrete evidence for any of these things, I would say of course not- they're just fun to think about sometimes.
Fire dragons were recent inspirations by Medieval Jews, Christians, and Muslims view on hell creatures. Dragon of ancient folk tales in Africa, Eastern Asia, Australia, and the Americas all depict snakes that cause rain and live in rivers. You are insightful in recognizing Medieval knights needing heroic stories 😂
So... Their argument goes basically like this...
"You can't accept science saying the world is round just because someone tells you it is. You have to go out and see it for yourself. The only evidence you can believe is what you yourself see."
Where did you get that idea?
"Saw it On TH-cam."
"The only evidence you can believe is what you yourself see": well, they do not see the sun coming up very tiny at the dawn, increasing in size until noon and then shrunking back to a point at sunset, like it should necessarily be the case if Earth was a flat disk and a smaller sun orbited over it like they claim! If their senses are showing them that, then I suggest that they stop eating allucinogenic mushrooms with a expired date or that they go and search for more pure weed or lsd, for their dope then seems to be toxic garbage... lol
If you go too far with it i think is just solipsistic. And dangerously close to psychosis..although psychosis is due to biological or trauma-related illness not just stupidity.
And yes, this video did not convince me any more that its not stupidity. Its a better debunk as its a full understanding.
Like, i get trusting only your own senses but they think seeing the moon in the day as if that has been a hidden fact is evidence.
If they do not understand the round earth model, or gravity they cannot 'debunk' it.
So for that inconsistency i would say sabine is being unusually kind for some weird reason. She absolutely rips very sensible deductive hypothesis...
@@jorgepeterbarton Go and take a flight with a plane, - aaand you will see for yourself!!! 10 km up, you can clearly see that earth is not flat!!
@@konradbentgislason3835 and you too have eyes! to read the comment you are replying to before clicking enter! LMAO
Dude.. try and think for yourself for once..
That's why I love Richard Feynman. He never trusted other peoples calculations but (according to his biography) re-calculated most of it himself and thus contributed immensely to quantum physics. Flat-earthers don't bother to go the extra mile, lazy minds
Flerfs usually maintain that only evidence you witness ‘in person’ counts….I have seen a flerf posit this. Yet they choose to believe without question other Flerfs on You Tube are correct. You can’t ague with this entrenched disbelief in science.
Here in Brazil, a group of flat-earthers held a laser and mirror experiment and accidentally disproved the flat Earth. Yes, they refuted themselves.
maybe they were globers acting flat
Good
Have you seen the GoFast rocket launch? th-cam.com/video/001IXnp0ogc/w-d-xo.html. It goes 73 miles up and suddenly and at the same time you here a THUD it goes from spinning fast to slow. As it spins, slow it down and you will see the moon which looks TINY from that distance. Ask yourself, why/how could the moon look so tiny from 73 miles up. You can see in the video the launch is around mid day. They published the date of the launch.
So the look up where the moon was at that day and apx. time..... OVER INDONESIA!
Sorry, that is CHECKMATE! NOT ONLY is it impossible to see the moon over Indonesia from 73 miles over NV on a ball earth on that documented day/time but it ALSO explains why the moon is SO SMALL and far away! --- AND there is NO OTHER EXPLANATION for the moon looking so small (and far away!) If the earth is an 8k dia. ball, Indonesia is directly on the opposite side of the ball from NV..... sorry chump.
Did they then change their minds ? Or did they just come up with some post hoc reason why their experiment didn't _really_ provide evidence for a globe Earth ?
Because that's the difference between _actual_ rational skepticism and merely propagating pseudo-scientific conspiracy theories - the former follows the evidence.
Lol 🤣 groups here in the US have done the same. Check out the documentary Behind the Curve, they disprove their theory several times then refute the results. Cheers!
“they refuse to decode difficult sensory input” has to be the most elegant way to call someone stupid.
if it is they would of proofed it by now!!
@@thethinkingman- I can’t tell if you’re joking with that spelling or not
I'll definitely use that in some arguing sometime someday. Sounds so polite...
@@Zenit321 exactly. people dont realise there is 2 sides to the coin so the jury is still out.
@@MrDgf97 they commented again. I dont think they were joking.
The fact that gravity does vary depending on how high up to are, disproves the flat Earther theory that gravity is an upward motion. But the thing that really kills 'flat Earth' is the horizon. You can watch a ship sailing over the horizon. But then go up a hill or a building, you can see the ship again! The ship has just gone over the horizon, where you can see because it not blocked by the curvature of the Earth.
I think the reason people on TH-cam to have channels about flat earth are so steadfast is because it makes them money and they don't want to give up their livelihood.
I bought a shovel and am going to build a duplicate of the LHC in my backyard so I can check their findings with my own senses.
Ha :)
It won't be your own senses but the detectors data. Nobody ever seen atoms, least subatomics particules. In fact nobody ever seen anything except photons scatered by objects colliding with retina cells. Wait we don't see photons but our brain only construct an internal model of objects from retina excitation from photons colliding with retina cells. And so on ...
@@GonogoBonobo and that model is accurate and enough. definitely don't need ugly xray or gamma or radiowave senses...and those excitations count as seeing with our senses...
@@oakpope , This is my point, what does it means "to see" or any other sense. We never know the reality, but only know the experience of it. What we can reality is in fact only a construct of the mind.
correction: What we call reality is in fact only a construct of the mind.
Schrödinger’s Canned Soup - it is simultaneously edible and inedible at the same time.
I like it!
- Too bad the video is old and Sabine won't see this. Really funny, dude 😄
What about Schrödinger’s cat food?
@@oldmusician5236 Ah, yes! The canned food that cats both like and dislike.
@@KeepingOnTheWatch Yes. I stole your idea, but refined it so that it relates to cats. You get the real credit.
Excellent argument for effective educational programs (like this one 🤓). Thank you, Sabine! 🙏
"I'm bad at science, so everyone else must be bad at science, too!" - average self-selecting flat-earther
I'm convinced that Flat Earthers are just the greatest trolls ever.
Evidence. Can we use the same reasoning to determine whether or not, as the Gaza Health Ministry claims, 30,000 Gazans have died at the hands of the IDF since 10/7.
@@cooterhead_jones Sure, why not?
scary af
stupid flat earthers hold up the big middle finger to the truth
you wish. they are serious.
This video has renewed my trust in canned food, thank you.
😂😂😂😂
That could be the result of the law of unintended consequences.
🤣
Nicely done!
I have navigated a small boat at sea using a sextant, clock and astronomical tables. I looked into the math of it--and it is really fairly simple.
What would be really challenging--is to devize an explanation as to how that math would work on a flat earth.
People say that the airliner makes the earth seem smaller. But I differ on that. The speeds are so great that the distances are not really comprehended.
Travelling at the very human speeds of a sailboat, particularly in a North-South direction--you really feel the climate change as you move around the curve of the earth. If you are also navigating with a sextant--you really feel the actual size and shape of the earth on a vary intimate and personal level.
flat-earthers don't appreciate much the outside world of navigation or astronomy.
They like to think they are God's pets kept in a little cage for His amusement.
Sextant clocks are flat discs that match a flat circle earth in reality. Sextant clocks don't match a perfect sphere and the so-called scientists claim that we don't live on a perfect sphere or 🏀. They claim that we live on a Spheroid. Also you wouldn't be able to determine the angle of a star, or ☀️ etc with a sextant if the sun or stars were really trillions and millions of miles away from the Earth in reality?
The oceans, lakes, rivers, and ponds are level which means flat with no part higher than another.
@@tatonemio6388Well you wouldn't be able to measure the sun, or stars at an angle with a sextant clock if they were really trillions and millions of miles away from the earth in reality. Sextant clocks are flat discs that match the shape of a flat circle earth.
Also the so-called scientists claim that we don't live on a spinning 🏀 they claim that we live on a spheroid. And a spheroid doesn't match a perfect sphere.
Where can we witness the ground curving as a Spheroid in reality? Why do you believe in fables?
I still have many questions about globe and flat earth, but for exemple: A lot of people use gravitational constant in a lot of things, even there is no trustworthy proof about gravity, we keep using this just because it makes things "work better"
@@DXFXULT
The gravitational constant is an empirical (measured) value which is part of the Newton's law of Gravity.
The Newton's law of Gravity is consistent with reality since predictions based on it are empirically verified.
Or using your words: the Newton's law of Gravity has been proved by trustworthy measurements.
When you open the canned soup you still make a personal observational judgement on whether it can be eaten. The way it looks and smells for example.
When you open it you do expect it to be edible. Checking it before use does not negate that expectation.
You still bought it believing it to be a can of soup. If the can actually contained mud you'd be really surprised and start suing people for false advertising.
It is very refreshing to see someone refuting flat earthers in a non condesending manner. Great work!
I don't think that's the correct spelling of condescending
it's very condescending and most of it is not even true. No modern FErs believe the earth is accelerating up. The number of FErs in the would is more like 10 million than 10k. This is very slick propaganda and written by a team of people.
They should be ridiculed and laughed at btw..
When that happens let us know.
@@dusermiginte4647 they shouldn't. At least they show that they think even if their thought process is wrong.
"flat earthers refuse to decode difficult sensory input".
That's the nicest and most academic sounding way to call someone stupid I've ever seen witnessed.
I'm baffled. I wouldn't even be mad if somebody said this to me, I'd be fascinated.
"Im a flat-earther and I'm not stupid, I just refuse to decode difficult sensory input like all those freak scientists"
Thats an amazing quote that flat earthers should be using, but of course they won't watch this video
Except, that it is not difficult to look out the window of an airliner at cruising altitude and see the curve for yourself. Instead, they make idiotic excuses for it. And believe me, they ARE idiotic.
Try to decode the fact that Cavendish equation and Coulombs are identical bar the constant.
(How can you even listen to someone that doesn't even understand the difference between spherical and round?)
@@palomarjack4395 But that's not true, you wouldn't be high enough to see "the curve" in a normal air plain, at least with your naked eyes. I think the Concord had been at an altitude you might be able to see it directly, . I think that's one of the problems: There are many of such claims floating around which are not really true and those "skeptics" use these to convince new victims.
I know right! I'm going to save this one for next time I'm having an argument with someone
I originally thought Flat Earthers were just having a laugh, similar to "Drop Bears". Interesting to learn of it's historical roots!
I understand and agree with the idea of observing things in person. That's why I have made a real effort to see total and partial solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, the transits of Venus and Mercury, the phases of Venus and most of the planets and their moons. All this backs up the science and heliocentric model rather than just having faith and believe.
It's great that you observed the Venus transit. For the 2012 transit, I invited my neighbors to view it through my telescope (which is equipped w/ a solar filter).
"In 1954 Shanton created the flat earth society. Few people cared, he died in 1971." Damn! Shanton must've felt that burn from beyond the grave.
🤣😂😂
That was such a fantastic dismissal 🔥
That was EPIC!!! God I love this woman! 🤣
LOL....one day Sabine Hossenfelder will die, her followers will post eulogies and 2 weeks later they will have forgotten she even existed....
@@davidwest5177 who are you again? Oh, yeah. Nobody.
Maybe I'm excessively mean and insulting toward flat Earthers but I was raised on astronomy as a kid, and telescopes these days are really stinkin' cheap. It hardly takes any real effort to point a crappy 60mm alt-az scope at the sky to actually look at the planets, the sun and the moon, and do basic observations that prove that these objects are rotating spheres. Mercury and Venus can be seen to transit the sun. Jupiter's moons can be seen to leave eclipse shadows on the surface. It's Great Red Spot can be seen to move across the surface in a clear pattern of planetary rotation. The moons of Jupiter and Saturn can easily be seen to orbit the planet if you watch them night to night. There are so many things easily seen through even a bargain basement deep discount scope both in the sky and on land to prove that the Earth is round that it's hard to know where to start. To me, it's just plain as day and nobody had to grind it into my head by brainwashing through television. It's just up there for all to see. To me, Flat Earth Theory is either lazy, ignorant, or purposeful spreading of anti-science propaganda, which there is already so much of these days it's sickening and likewise hard to know where to start. But then too, I grew up in the latter part of the age of the junior scientist, so I am biased. It distresses me no end that nobody cares about such things these days.
I sent my unreliable , unsteady, upside down viewing telescope to Goodwill.We know the Stars and Planets are just lights in God's Firmament.No need for a shakey telescope.
@@ronpapi9539
you: "Stars and Planets are just lights"
You keep insulting God's work with your blasphemous antiscientific and antibiblical creed.
you: "No need for a shakey telescope."
Yeah, your disdain for knowledge is clearly reflected in your childish and ignorant comments
Maybe it's time to face reality and get some form of education.
Great points!
Most telescopes end up at Goodwill.They show various lights , all upside down and very unstable sightings.
NASA has yet not been able to post a 24hr.love video of the entire Earth spinning with moving cloud formations and thousands of lightning strikes which permiate the night sky.Lets see the video or shutty.
I race sailboats on a lake. On some of our longer races, we sail around 1.5 metre diameter buoys 5 miles away. We can't see the buoy at the beginning of the leg, but when we get to within about 1.5 miles, we can see the buoy if we stand up, but not if we are sitting down. I've observed the curvature of the Earth with my own senses. Sailors have known the Earth is round for 6000 years.
Exactly
If the world was flat, cats would have pushed everything off by now.
Well, that argument can work with flatearthers :)
I've seen that joke a half dozen times in the last 2 weeks.
Lol. True.
Thats about as funny as screen doors on a
battleship...
@@gordonsflash8612 Actually, I think it's "That's as funny as screen doors on a submarine".
Wow, that is an incredibly poignant argument of why flat earth "science" is really a failure to accept others' past observations. The can of soup analogy, trusting that your smart phone will work, trusting that society (generally) works is so important and hits home. I normally don't take the effort to comment on videos but for this excellent, excellent video I'm making an exception. Well done!!!
Wake up!🤦♂️
have you ever tried to prove we live on a flying spinning water covered ball?
@@kfm908 can you prove we’re not?
@@kfm908 I've sailed across the ocean. Done navigation with a sextant, etc. It's definitely round.
@@kfm908 you can't prove a preconceived conclusion, by attempting to prove something else isn't the case.
Instead, you should first accept you don't know, and then try to discover the truth...until then, you don't know.
E.g. Let's say I have the preconceived notion that if a bag of bananas doesn't have 5 bananas, the only other possible logical conclusion is that that small bag has 900 trillion bananas. No other possibilities could possibly exist. Only my preconceived conclusion of 900 trillion bananas is the default alternative.
So all I have to do to prove my theory, is prove there aren't 5 bananas in the bag, and then I've automatically proved there are 900 trillion bananes in the bag.
This is obviously not logical, all I've done is discover I don't know how many banana's are in the bag, apart from the fact that it's definitely not 5.
I think it was Richard Dawkins that once told this story on some show, about how one man said to the other _"I can see why people thought the sun goes around the earth, because that's how it looks."_ The second man answered _"And what would it look like if it _*_didn't?"_*
The moon and the sun both appear on one horizon, travel across the sky and set on the other horizon. If you only saw them do that, you'd be _half_ right about _them both_ orbiting the earth, because one of them does. You need more information than only glancing at them with your senses.
I appreciate her viewpoint on this and I think good points are made concerning our approach to the claims made. I also am a firm believer in the science, and we know very well the earth is round (Occam's razor has a contribution here) or spheroid more accurately, but I had never considered that we should take the claims of flat-earthers more seriously. It's likely a better way if we actually want to change minds. Often, we dismiss what we think of as silly, non-scientific ideas, and those with ideas that may not be well-informed are going to dig their heals in. It's human. We all have some beliefs that we likely don't even realize are counter to the actual facts. This video was enlightening for me on that horizon.
“Few people cared - he died in 1971” omg, that cracked me up 😂. I’m a 47 year old with just a High School Diploma but I continue to learn from you Sabine. Your awesome!
Scientific channels on TH-cam do not beat a degree, but they sure can entertain one's curiosity.
The amount of sarcasm in her comments are hilarious, she's basically giving the finger to these people, hahaha.
@@Fabelaz I'm not sure what having a degree has to do with anything. People have degrees but still believe in flat earth so ...
@@jamesn7305 what I meant is having a higher education is better than getting small snippets of information on same topic from youtube videos as former is more complete. My statement wasn't about flat earth, but I doubt anyone with higher education diploma (a real one) in physics-related area can believe in flat earth.
Hopefully, you can find a TH-cam video to continue to learn English grammar.
I often ponder the possibility that humanity could be stuck in a perpetual Stone Age if not for language and it’s capacity to store and accumulate knowledge. We would then have to learn everything on our own as she says.
The other side of the coin for language is the effect that once ideas are written and labeled "God words" there will be people taking those written words as actually spoken by a God.
And doesn't help the fact Gods never recorded any word since the invention of recorded sound...
Uh, yep.
This absolutely true. What people do best is learn from each other.
Fun Fact: One of the earliest written records we have is instructions on how to domesticate horses. If language were never invented, horse domestication would have likely never been able to be learned and reproduced, eventually dying out with whatever generation didn't learn it or pass it on.
@@ethanpschwartz Well no the generation would pass sit on to the next as practice or orally, as they did before writing was invented. Then another generation would probably discover it again.
It would depend on how useful it was. Practices that don't get used are forgotten, and much of the knowledge that goes with them.
just watch any ship sail away fro the shore and note the top part disappears last then try the same test with a model on a ball and a table. now your own senses tell you the world is a ball not a table
While doing that, find a proof of 66.6 degrees tilt, that causing seasons
@@GlobeisahoaxxNo proof, because the tilt is 23, 44 degrees. Why are you obsessed with satanic number? Are you satanist?
Fr. Or just look at the sun. If thr earth was a disk the sun moving wouldn't match
Thank you so much for this. I have shared it on Facebook.
I love it how an actual scientist isn't just about mocking people that are wrong. We need more people like you.
it really doesn’t matter how you address individuals who aren’t listening. Flerfers are the child with his fingers in his ears tongue out
@Captain Bruh exactly. Mockery can be properly used as a catalyst to help them change and see the errors in their thinking when they reject all evidence and fail to listen. Satire can often be an example.
@@AlanHowellphotovideo No, mockery just makes people angry and redoubles their determination to stand up to the mockers. Sabine has the right idea. Engage with people respectfully and show them why they are wrong.
coddling the idiots is why why are going through this now...
@@bxdanny actually no, when you show respect to someone who is wrong, you engender confidence in their beliefs. When they seek out like minded idiots, you have lost the battle completely. I have watched Hitchens lovingly explain to religious people exactly where they are wrong, and those same people then return to their own and publicly berate him.
if everyone had to build their own computer from scratch before learning anything else about them, none of us would be here right now
The problem reminds me of the difficulties of accepting the use of set theory in using variables and setting up algebraic expressions, the jump from Greek plane geometry proofs to proofs requiring use of of exhaustion such as infinitesimals for calculus, or the switch from Roman numerals to the magic of arithmetic place theory. The refusal to adopt certain concepts impedes advancement or the idea of “progress” but it may well be the key to a certain kind of acceptance among some social/cultural circles. I heard there was a whole mining company that refused to accept the concept of radiometric age. I think it put them at a great disadvantage.
no way taking flat earthers seriously at all. Not possible to respect something when there is nothing to respect.
Globe fantasits are so delusional. How cany anyone take reality deniers seriously
@@Level_No_Curve says the guy whose screen name literally means globe
@@Level_No_Curve
everybody that matter take Geodesy seriously besides you and a tiny bunch of irrelevant demented flat-earther trolls.
@@Level_No_CurveDear oh dear!
Let’s be honest, believing that the earth is flat, is indeed stupid. Excluding all evidence except “personally observed evidence” would leave us with crippled minds. Which is stupid.
Thanks for running for president
Haha 😄 🤣 tell the NBA that ..and I bet you couldn't. 😏
I think the treatment of "science" in the media hurts here, too. Too often, the view we have is of countless surprising outlier study results that are sensational enough to warrant speculative reporting. This food is bad for you. That one weird trick will make you live longer. This gives the distorted view that science is just smart people reporting new discoveries. When lots of those astounding reports are later contradicted, it looks like evidence that science doesn't work, when really it's just evidence that a single data point isn't sufficient for full understanding.
This so much. The media is... awful. They often report things like "Fuel cells/solar cells/super batteries/super capacitors are coming next year with this new technology." And while that new technology MAY exist, it's likely impossible to commercialize or would be so expensive as to not be economically viable. People have to accept that the world runs on money, and if something is too expensive to produce, the general public won't fund it/buy it. Of course science has technologies that could and would produce cleaner energy. But these technologies were produced using the most expensive materials and most expensive techniques. Often precious metals make up significant parts of batteries/other energy producing technologies that scientists study. I can't produce a battery that's 25% gold by weight and expect the public to pay a premium to use it when they can go to their local wal-mart and buy a normal battery, with likely half the capacity, for 1/1000ths of the cost. Science is burdened with the job of producing something CHEAPER than we currently have. And since things typically get cheaper the more they're used, fossil fuels are SO... UNGODLY CHEAP right now. (I'm using energy as an example, but the same idea applies everywhere.)
Basically, the media is constantly undermining science even when they're trying to be useful. Furthermore, the media OFTEN misrepresents scientific publications because the media articles are written by idiots who have no idea what they're talking about, so they'll cherry pick a sentence and then say "this is what this entire paper is about." When in reality the scientific author was using that sentence as an example of something completely different. I've seen it happen more times than I can count.
Yeah, take something like global warming. If you only learn about global warming from the media and build what they say in to a scientific hypothesis then it's incredibly easy to pick apart and disprove as a hoax even if you lack a university education. Meanwhile if you take the actual science instead of the medias portray of it it's so far impossible to disprove. The fundamental problem is that you need at least 5 years of university studies (or more) to accurately understand all the science behind it to the point where you're capable of "making up your own mind" fairly. You need to learn everything from fluid dynamics and complex system analysis to quantum mechanics to be able to really understand every different part of it and how all of it interacts. But climate change as portrayed by the media? Well disproving that would make for a nice elementary school research project.
Here's a report that will not be "later contradicted." Water finds level. Level is a *_plane._* Earth is established on the *_same_* plane as water, a fluid, settled into a calm flat surface in a basin; i.e. a swimming pool for example. Basin size does *NOT* change water's nature to rest calm with it's surface a perfect plane once settled into a basin of *_any_* given size.
@@earth.is.a.plane. No. Just... no. Water does not find a "level". Water finds its place equidistant from the center of the mass that the water is attracted to (aka elevation). The ocean is not level. It is simply equidistant from the center of the earth. You're confusing "level" with "elevation." Over a sufficiently short distance, this will appear to be on the same plane. It is, however, not. I just don't... get it. Flat earthers can see and agree that the other planets/moons in our solar system are spherical. Including moons that have oceans of liquid on them, yet they dispute that oceans can exist on a sphere, yet they can... see... them. Oh of course that's assuming they don't think that space is all a conspiracy theory perpetuated by all of the governments of the world for... some... unknown.... purpose.
Good job making this video, very few manage to cover a topic like this without derision.
Engineering: long bridges need piers that account for the curvature of the earth. The tops of piers need to be at a greater distance than their base. If earth is flat, this wouldn't work.
I taught University Earth Science every semester for 30 years. 60 times I went step-by-step through the evidence for Plate Tectonics. Each time it still gave me chills. It was beautiful in its conclusions and as an example of the scientific method. The students really liked it too rather than merely being taught that the plates move.
@@napoleonbonapathy6943 Are you spamming, really!?
@@MarsStarcruiser Yup and the so-called pilot can't answer basic questions.
@@zed1stwizard I kind of figured😅
@@napoleonbonapathy6943 No, no you're not what you claim to be. If you are then show me you flying a plane and doing your job as an aerospace engineer.
@@napoleonbonapathy6943 🤡
I approve of your tactic of not simply dismissing the other perspective. But instead humoring it and allowing it to attempt to stand on its own. Socrates would be proud
She never brought up the most relevant FE points.No rebuttal.Shes Old School and only exists to calm down wishywashy Ballers what they want to believe.Swallowing other people's ideas instead of actually researching on their own ,comforts Lazy Globeheads.
@@ronpapi9539 K.
@@ronpapi9539 Which are the most relevant FE points ?
@@PeacefulCountryLife The Earth's Stationary and immovable.No Ocean Curvature and unproven Gravity Theory.That's just 4 points out of 200.
@@ronpapi9539 Thank you. Do you have a website / article link were all of these are fully listed and explained?
Proving for yourself that the Earth is round is a good mental exercise, if nothing else. Challenge yourself to reject anything you've been told, and find the correct logic.
you: "Challenge yourself to reject anything you've been told"
I am been told to use logical argument, but I reject it.
I am been told to use empirical evidence, but I reject it.
Now what?!?
It's easier to prove that the Earth is a sphere than it is to tie your shoes. Much easier. Not a mental exercise at all.
Did that when I was a kid. Greeks did it more than two thousand years ago. There's a time to move on.
I put it down to an emotional need to believe they have special knowledge that the rest of us don't have. If instead they have reached adulthood truly without an understanding of the shape of the Earth, they may be beyond educating.
Yes, you got it, flat-earthism is an antiscience cult people join to feel special and superior.
@@tatonemio6388What science? Fallacies? Models, and assumed curve calculations? You don't even have a single globe proof that constitutes empirical evidence.
@@TruthHurts2160 You could try not lying once in your life just to experience the sensation.
*TruthHurts ==> CONFIRMED FAKE TH-cam ACCOUNT*
*all this accounts are confirmed to belong to the same demented flat earth troll*
*EpicAlternative ErisOfNightCity FitnessApple 7THHEAVEN TheOriginalHossman TruthHurts LanaNavy youngtravels TheHammer*
@@tatonemio6388Until you present some evidence for that accusation that you're spamming all over this comment section, you're just showing fence-sitters that our side (the debunkers) has its own bunch of obsessive screwballs.
Forget the science reasoning, don't you think if the earth was flat someone by now would have taken a selfie from the edge.
Except that it's guarded by thousands of UN (?) ships preventing anyone from seeing the ice wall. Although how flat heads know that there is an ice wall when no-one has see it or visited Antarctica is a bit disingenuous.
The secret world organization are wasting BILLIONS, time and effort to prevent them from reveal something that no reason to be concealed because in no way it will change the world power game.
@Chris Mathis: ... well... except if Earth is an infinite disc. And no... there's no limit for stupidity.
@@richardgomes5420 If the earth were an infinite disc (in all directions) then the moon would not be able to revolve around it.
@@chrismathis4162 Flat Earthers don't see any problem. And no... there's no limit for stupidity.
When I was 9, my neighbour helped me calculate the circumference of the earth, from measuring shadows cast from a stick. If a 9 year old with a stick can work it out, these adult flerfs really should have figured it out by now...
Indeed. When I was ten, my father built an equatorial sundial with my brother and me, and explained how it worked. That alone was enough to prevent me from ever becoming a flat Earther.
@@therealzilch Sun dial works on flat Earth. You're welcome.
Circumference of Earth is proven wrong on the average persons daily commute to work. Do the Math. Look into the distance, and notice how nothing is leaning backwards even at 100 miles etc. You apparently enjoy living in your comfortable lie or are just lacking intelligence. Not to be offensive. I presume you also wear a mask and think Covid 19 Sars 2 Cov is a real threat....
@@salesmcsaleson9285 How many sundials have you built? An equatorial sundial shows that the Sun apparently moves across the sky at 15 degrees an hour, no matter the time of day or year, no matter where you are on Earth. That shows that the Sun must be very distant, not the nearby Sun demanded by flat Earthers, which would move faster when overhead than when near the horizon, thus rendering the sundial useless.
And how far back should buildings be leaning at a given distance, if the Earth is a globe? it's easy to do in your head: the circumference of the Earth is about 25,000 miles. Divide that by 360 degrees and you get about 70 miles per degree around the globe. Thus, a building 70 miles away- which would only be visible with a telescope under exceptional conditions- will be leaning away from you about a degree, which you would not be able to see or even detect with instruments, unless you had a laser interferometer or something.
Any questions? Cheers from overcast Vienna, Scott
@@salesmcsaleson9285 well no actually, because I live in South Australia and we have no lockdowns or mask mandates. We’re clean and socially responsible round these parts.
As far as your ‘evidence’ for a flat earth, you make the classic mistake of thinking the earth is way smaller than what it actually is. It is ludicrous to think you could see a building leaning noticeably from the curvature of the earth. The earth is so massive, it is effectively flat. Just because you can’t grasp this concept, doesn’t make it false. There is such a preponderance of evidence for the globe earth, and has been for millennia, that in order to deny that evidence you have to be wilfully ignorant, not just stupid.
Best of luck...
if the earth is flat, what is with the horizon on the ocean? i should be able to see the land on the other side if the earth is flat....
if flat earthers were correct then arround the world flights would not have the timings they do in the real world, they would be different in the southern hemispear vs the north
They are ignorant, they ignore the facts laid out in front of them. Nor do they listen to nor contemplate the answer of someone who is trying to answer one of their questions. They just move on to another question and they rinse and repeat. They are not interested in learning the reasons why we know what we know. Once in a while you will come across someone on the fence and you can reason with them but once they have joined the cult it just goes in one ear and out the other.
Yep, flat-earthism is a cult for delusional/narcissistic people that need to feel superior
We debunkers, ourselves, engage in cultish behavior when we paint all FEs with the same brush by smugly dismissing all of them as brainwashed cultists who are beyond hope. During the 11 years during which I've been debating FEs and uploading vids in support of other debunkers, I've seen and received comments from several former FEs. All thanked thoughtful people like Dr. Hossenfelder for helping them get out of that damaging mindset.
>>>> JimSmithInChiapas and JimSmithInChiapas2
@@tatonemio6388 Thanks for making my point about the cultish behavior of debunkers who attack anyone who suggests that FEs might not be vastly and irredeemably inferior to themselves. You've spammed this same unhinged screed about me at least 20 times in this comment section. Anyone who disregards your shrieking and checks those two accounts will see that neither is fake or anti-science. Actually, I've been uploading math and science content since 2010 -- two years before you established your own channel.
The rest of your accusations are equally false.
I am really impressed about the objective method Sabine is tackling this phenomenon of flat-earthers and the way she is presenting us an even deeper insight of why some people are thinking these strange ways: actually it is all about missing trust... Thank you very much!
I would argue that she didn't use an objective method,on the contrary,it was very subjective. She put herself in the mindset of a flat earther and understood how they feel about science. She did explain it objectively though, so her reasoning can be seen by everyone else.
Yes, missing trust, and that's pretty reasonble these days towards politics, but in many cases also towards science in general; but also missing good education. Most of them probably also did not have the chance to travel around the world. How can we tell someone to recalculate the movements of the planets if they have no handle on geometry?
@@chaukeedaar good education! Yes, I totally agree!
@@chaukeedaar You don't need to be fairly confident the earth isn't flat (I'm not sure if you meant to imply that it not). Just watch a ship vanish bottom-up over the horizon. There are innumerable pieces of evidence because the earth is pretty ubiquitous as far as things go. ;)
How would this work on flat earth?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
How would pilots navigate? What moves a compass needle? It goes on and on ... Then, of course, there's the fact that a flat earth map does not exist--flat maps are all projections!
Well, actually Sabine , like most physicians, deliberately always likes to pick out the 'flat Earthers society' from the more serious critics of mainstream science. Why? Well, by making flat Earthers Movement appear more widespread or influential than they really are, mainstream science is generalizing all opposition to mainstream science to be equally dumb as this somewhat slightly retarded Kumbaya bunch. It kind of makes maintream sceintists look real smart (which they are in comparison) and moves attention way from the problametic, flawed and at sometime ridiculous theories, mainstream science has developed on their own over the years...
This is billowing my mind. I think a humble yet unanimously vital point is this: if one wants to communicate, which is arguably so much important in societies, he or she needs to take scientifically inconsistent but partially rational arguments seriously. Scientific education should strive to reveal a healthy attitude and how to take sciences “scientifically”. You are a true communicator.
You are talking about good pedagogy. But flat-earthers have another problem, besides their "partially rational arguments", their lack of scientific education, and their intellectual limits. They don't want to learn about reality.
For obvious psychological reasons. Arguing with a flat-earther is a real challenge. If you succeed, you totally destroy his universe, the spine which sustained his whole life. To replace it by what ? The awareness of his emptiness ?
thank you. I have no doubt about my education, and life's experience's. My father was an airline pilot, i was privvy to many jet excursions...more proof of a circular Earth!
She sounded uneducated in the hood
Interesting comment...why do you say that?
@@shereef3823 Who are you talking to ? Is it Lisa ? By the way, spherical would be better than circular. Flerfs never could measure their pizza, that should have alarmed them !
Watch the sun set, then jump in an elevator to the top of a high-rise building and watch it set again. Explain that with flat earth logic
I disagree, steadfastly rejecting evidence that is easily testable by the common person (like watching a boat sail over the horizon) IS stupid. It is just, simply, stupid. It doesn’t make the person stupid, but it does make the idea stupid.
The problem with flat earth earthers (and other conspiracies theorists) isn’t a lack of good evidence. It’s a matter of desire. They want to believe that they have some special, inside knowledge that very few people know about. This makes them feel important.
I'm no flat earther, but if a conspiracy theory comes true, it is because too many doubted it could ever happen. The false feeling of security is the perfect time for the enemy to execute said conspiracy, being as nobody will suspect it in time before it comes to fruition.
@@hypercubemaster2729 If something is already a conspiracy theory, that means at least some people already believe it. That kind of reinforces OP’s comment that they want to feel like they have special “secret” information that just happens to be shared all over the Internet. People don’t reject conspiracy theories because they’re unknown or even impossible. They reject them because they don’t have evidence to support them. If one of them turned out to be true, it would be because new evidence has been discovered.
If you tell me socks go missing in the dryer because a singularity opens during the cycle and sucks in some of the socks, I wouldn’t just accept it because you said it, even if you put it in a meme and made it sound like a big government coverup. If, however, you actually proved it, my opinion would change.
@@hueypautonoman No. Those same people believe less important things all the the time without sufficient evidence. Just look at Y2K: Huge conspiracy theory that almost everybody believed, yet nothing happened. Also, what about certain religions? Absolutely no evidence to suggest some of them are true, yet people believe anyway.
Often times the idea of something being true frightens someone to the point where they turn a blind eye of denial to every shred of evidence that could possibly come their way.
Also, your statement about conspiracy theories lacking evidence is completely false. They more often than not have plenty of evidence behind them, which is why they gain traction in the first place.
It is actually elitism and pride that causes a lot of people to not believe in certain conspiracies, because they want to feel more intelligent or not as crazy as the person who believes in said conspiracy that they themselves don't, knowing good and well they themselves have belief in a crazy conspiracy of their own.
The biggest trick ever pulled on people is convincing them conspiracy theory’s are inherently questionable. All that conspiracy’s are by definition, is people working together to some end, that’s most of society. That way you can call anything a conspiracy whenever you dislike the conclusion someone has gotten too.
@@Prometheus7272 I disagree. I could for example believe in God not because there is evidence but because I do, and that's that. Or, I could believe in God and that the evidence for his existence is being hidden from me and everyone else. This paranoia is at the core of the psyche of the conspiracy theorists
A lot of Flat Earthers don't believe Earth is accelerating, but instead believe what we perceive as gravity is actually due to buoyancy, ignoring that gravity is necessary for buoyancy.
Their arguments are less circular than they are, “spherical,” ironically enough. That’s how you get to be a, “global,” movement these days. 🙄
this is a bold faced lie lol
@@bezzyboy6 Really? I've seen them argue it in videos.
Accelerating where?Their is no NSE or West in Space.No up or down. either.See how foolish you Globeheads are.
But flat earthers ignore the simple direct evidence that they could use if they wanted to like length of shadows at different latitudes
Most flerths are trolls but I agree the ones that do believe may not be stupid but they're certifiably delusional.
You can bend a spoon easily by dipping it in a glass of water.
Unfortunately you have to keep it there (and refill the glass periodically) or it will become straight again. :)
You can also bend it with your mind
Good one
Uri Geller wants a word with you.
There is no spoon.
@@_IronLion_ There is no bend, the bend is an allusion... Likewisely, the sky also is not bent toward one side like it should be if Earth was a disk and you looked up from a place significantly distant from the center of that disk...
"It's increasingly important that scientists provide evidence for how science works, so that people who cannot follow the research itself, can instead rely on evidence that the system provides correct and useful descriptions of nature." - That is just perfection.
This is just an idiotic statement meaning you must follow the info i am given? :D what? :D
@@worldaswar3784 No, it means that IF scientists provide evidence for HOW science works, than you can rely on the information that the system (the scientific system, the system that generates the evidence) provides, because even the people that can't or won't follow the actual research, still understand and trust it, as they understand HOW the system operates, as in "they understand the scientific process".
@@pedrinrj7251 you have just described a Blind FAITH. I believed blindly and was dissappointed. Please. Keep your slave mentality to yourself.
@@worldaswar3784 So, if you have an explanation on how something works, and you understand and can fact-check if the "how" works as described, the sub sequential trust in the information that comes out of that "how" is blind faith?
I thought the blind faith was the acceptance of something without any evidence.
@@worldaswar3784 if you don't believe in what you have been told then you can not live in society and their progress. When you get sick do you go to the doctor?? Do you take the prescribed pills? You can't possibly know all of the information a doctor has, you can not fact check all of the science behind your everyday experiences. The cars you use, the electric energy you use everyday , etc are the result of science advances. And there is no better proof that science works than the fact that atomic bombs can be made, computers, smartphones, rockets, huge bridges, etc. You can perceive with your own senses the existence of all that and it is proof that science works.
If you have any flat earthers among friends or family please be sure that they wear a helmet and neck brace. This is in case they bump their head or turn their head too quickly. When one turns its head too quickly, their 2 neurons might bang together and cause them start clucking like a chicken and shit themselves.
Great video. Thanks for your work on your channel. I would like to comment that the flat earth people also do not apply their idea of direct observed evidence as the only valid evidence. I talked to one guy a while ago and after he stated that he had never seen the world as round, I asked him how an internal combustion engine works. He, knowing correctly, gave me a description. I then asked, have you every directly viewed an engine working. This question seemed to stump him and he worked hard to say he saw all the parts and so could imagine it. This is a problem that flat earth believers do. It is like an observation bias, but instead it is believing in a specific discovery process, but only when it serves your purpose.
I will say one thing Sabine - you hit the nail on the head. It’s a trust issue. If you cannot trust the methods, foundations, sources, or agendas… everything else crumbles.
it's not a trust issue. it's a paranoid delusion issue.
@@johnqpublic7608 potato potáto. Tell that to the paranoidly deluded.
Round earth is a dogma to them. Many things within the scientific community ought to be challenged. A round earth is not one of them.
Which is odd, because they trust the methods, foundations, sources, and agendas of random TH-cam videos and the flat earth society...
@@ThatBillmanGuy do they? I’m not a flat earther honestly so I’m not sure where the foundation of their thinking lies…. But for the ones that I’ve met that seem really hardcore about it, it’s more driven by biblical interpretation than TH-cam videos. There are also those that aren’t religious however, and in those cases I’ve noticed just a general mistrust in NASA as the motivating factor. I ponder the flat earth thing a lot, I would like to pick their brains a little more … it seems so strange that anyone would believe something like that in this day and age… and yet we have entire “societies” dedicated to the premise, and what seems to be a growing sentiment that what we’ve been taught to be scientific “facts” are often times rooted in problematic theories. The line between theory and truth has been extremely blurred by the scientific community… but maybe another ten years of modifying string theory will bring us all the answers to the universe we’ve been seeking . I won’t hold my breath 😂
The flat earthers I have discussed this with are not looking for truth they are looking for proof of their theory. Just observing a sunrise or sunset is enough to disprove their model, let alone a lunar eclipse.
Yeah they are only searching for confirmation bias. They never once think if their ideas are stupid, but rather why hasn’t anyone taken a deeper look into their ideas as if they amounted to anything. Often they’ll focus on the details of arguing, such as fallacies, gaslighting, straw man, etc. and use that as a way to disprove anything you say. They aren’t looking for the truth, but rather to feel smart when we all know they actually aren’t.
@@JoeARedHawk275 Flat earth, being just another pseudo-religion, is just another example of a much larger problem: The need Mankind has to belong to a group, a tribe, or a sect. Religion is just the biggest example. While no evidence exists to prove the existence of a supreme being, hordes of people flock to the several religions of the world. And the entire concept of a supreme being means they can´t all be right. By that fact alone one should doubt the entire premise, but we don´t. So why do we join them? We do it to belong. To be a part of something. And logic reasoning falls behind to that need.
I am thoroughly convinced that most people don´t really believe in a god. They just don´t want to abandon the comfort of belonging to something, or face the ridicule and ostracism that they would be faced with, should they voice their real subconscious opinion. And we have proof of this. If religious folk really believed in god, and resurrection, no one would be afraid of dying. And yet we are, fiercely. We spend humongous amounts of money and time to stave off death. And that is perhaps the greatest proof, that deep down people don´t believe they will resurrect to another life.
@Brian Trudeau But there is no god. So they are enemies of logic, and reason.
@@Biden_is_demented Could possibly be a God, though. Personally, I believe God made the Big Bang and guided humanity through evolution. Religion doesn't always have to be at odds with science and common sense, I say.
@@delaney6413 God is a construct of the human mind. A believer will always struggle to comprehend or acknowledge the evidence in contrary, no matter how powerful they may be. It´s something ingrained deep in out psyche. Just like a flat earther, you can take one up to the edge of space, and he still won´t believe it. Because believing would shatter his sense of belonging to his group. And as social beings that we are, the drive to stay tied to one´s group is so strong, that we are willing to go against our own reasoning, and even our own senses. That´s why it is a fruitless effort to try to convince anyone, of anything.
I absolutely believe most flat-earthers do not really believe in a flat earth. They just sat together once and began inventing arguments AGAINST a round earth, just for fun. Then that turned into a sort of competition: who could make an argument which, albeit being false, sounded the most believable and convincing?
Then they began testing how good each of those arguments worked on others.
Generally they’ve failed to come up with sound FE explanations for observable reality; by attempting to disprove the globe they think FE would be right by default.
13:12 "You know that your government strives to give children in your country a scientifically accurate education."
I am not a flat earther or a cospiracy theorist but this statement made me laugh out loud.
Unfortunately, the politicization of education and of science itself are no laughing matter. ☹️
I see that you subscribe to 3Blue1Brown. What a great channel.
You are exactly a conspiracy theorist.
@@Matuse Why would you say so? Please elaborate
@@pafnutiytheartist
because instead of presenting sound arguments so support your opinions you just laugh at somebody else opinion.
I live in a steep valley. So the world is rather V-shaped and not flat at all. I always have to go uphill to get anywhere.
When it rains do you live in a swimming pool.?
@@dreamdiction xd
The world is shaped like the internet to your generation...whatever it tells you. Great thinkers used to live here...zombies took over. You sound like one...
@@yestervue4697 "My generation"? I don't think you understood my posting at all.
@@ute.fritzkowski th-cam.com/video/wEU50wGHOa0/w-d-xo.html
I don't think anyone ever really grasps mine...
It’s not just about trust though. Even when they do their own experiments that prove the earth is round, they still won’t accept the results.
Yeah, so true. They're attached to their viewpoint beyond reason. Would be good to know why.
because its mostly about proving their point, not understanding the world.
@@ZoltanSzucs73 because you are special if you are part of an elitist group that knows the truth.
There is a new documentary about flat earthers on netflix that is really revealing. They mainly follow "Mark Seargant". At one point, you see a community get-together ("flat earth conference") and one of the speakers actually spells out one of the main reasons to join this community: it gives purpose.
As a flat earther (or any conspiracy advocat for that matter), in a society of wealth and no real threats to survival, some people cannot deal with more complex goals or purposes--so they create new goals and purposes and assign themselves the roles of heralds and martyrs.
This is not an epistemological problem as Sabine suggests--its a socio-phsycological problem.
I've seen one of those, funny as hell!
Flat earth.....short bus. Sure we have to be nice to cerebrally challenged individuals. Let us just say ignorant? Instead of stupid? We don't have the priority system or time to argue about trivial things. I got on the school bus to go to first grade (I lived 7 miles out of town). My mom grabbed my shoulder as I was boarding the bus and said "Joey, just remember that you can't always make sense to an idiot." Her kind words have always carried me since that day.
The most intelligent video that I have watched in many years. Thank you!!
This is exactly the right reaction to flat earthers. It is a crisis of trust, and there's simply no way everyone can re-trace all scientific discovery. It is an important question for all scientists to communicate properly to the public. It is also important to carefully respond to bad actors who intentionally disrupt this chain of understanding.
Of course the problem is that, from time to time, people in official positions do, in fact, betray trust and make errors. But even here, we know this because of evidence we can see. We have to embrace the demonstration of error as a positive. What would really be a problem is if errors were never dealt with.
Very well said!
Really good example is the way things are explained in popular science today. We hear comments such as "believe in the science" as though it's like a modern day version of theology. There is barely any genuine effort put to actually get the point across to regular folk.
Science and scientists are as corrupted as politics and law etc
This is exactly the problem that came to my mind. Flat Earth advocates had no audience until science in the public sphere clearly became corrupted by political interests. If scientists are frustrated by the lack of trust present in groups like Flat Earthers they have only themselves to blame.
I say this as a person certain Flat Earth ideas are ridiculous: stop allowing scientific interests to be even remotely influenced by political interests and trust from the general public will once again be restored.
@@mawnkey "science in the public sphere clearly became corrupted by political interests." Curious what you mean by this? Care to elaborate?