I've worked on both traction for years. My heart says HST every time. But don't kid yourself if it was a straight drag race with the 800 on electric mode it would be out of sight. Different league in acceleration. In this video the departure of 1Y88 from platform 6 has a speed restriction over points just south of the station so can't use full power. The HST (ex Inverness service) is straight on to the up fast from platform 5. So here you had an HST on full traction against an 800 on about 25% power.
It's not really about outright acceleration or speed though, is it ? Ride comfort, refinement and interior quality os what makes people enjoy the journey. From what I've read, the 800 has a poverty-spec interior with rock-hard seats.
@@bjoe385 No? The Azuma has not been speed tested but is known for 140mph, just like the 91 and 43 before they were speed tested? The Azuma could easily beat 148 mph set by the HST so you are completely wrong.
With the Azuma you don't get the rush and power sensation leaving the station that you'd do with an HST, with the HST you can feel and hear the roar of the engine but with the Azuma it's just an annoying electric whine.
Don't agree - I must have had a better driver one day as the 80X left the station way more promptly than the HST's could. I agree on the sound though - while I don't mind electric motors (only those PWM ones) the HST had a sense of power from the noise it made, although I never really felt the acceleration was all that impressive.
Azuma is a fantastic train (apart from the seats) but you really cannot experience railways until you have stood right next to an HST power car and felt the insane power that it radiates
First class seats on the diesel are what first class seats should be - big, sumptuous leather. The ones on the Azuma are just normal fabric standard class with first class logos badly stitched on.
@@bizzarebanana3041 Not really people complain about the comfort of seats along with the ride quality, poor build quality on some trains, too bright lighting, loud engine noise in cabin in comparison to the hst the 800 family seems like a downgrade from the 43 to me
@@NanaGlover well those people just sound really privileged, they’re using a train I’m not sure what they expect. I’ve been on the new trains and honestly I have no complaints when l compare them to the old hsts. Plus I’ve found the engine noise to be quieter
@bizzarebanana3041 Let's see the other features: Catering: HST has a proper buffet instead of a counter and a half arsed kitchen at seemingly random points. Ride quality: do I have to mention anything? HST wins all day, every day, and twice on the weekend. Standard class seating: Decently plush 2+2 seats without awfully bright lighting vs arse cramp inducing 2+2 tat with lighting brighter than a hospital. Reliability: Yes, I am aware of HSTs and cooler issues when they were introduced, but at least they didn't crack and need their predecessors to be used again to cover (225s for Azumas). And the less said about the first IET working on the Great Western, the better. Window alignment: again, HST wins. Not perfect but better than the IET. Looks: entirely personal preference but I find the Azumas achingly bland to look at. Not saying I don't like it just because it's modern - I absolutely adore the looks of the slightly newer CAF Class 397s. The HST, on the other hand, is immediately recognisable, looks between good and amazing in any livery and (sliding door ones only) doesn't look as awkward as the IET as its door pockets are much closer to the carriage ends. Service life: HSTs still ticking along with GWR, ScotRail, the MP charter, RailAdventure and Colas/Net Rail on test trains, not to mention the ones in Mexico and Nigeria. IET: Plastic fantastic tat that had to be withdrawn for cracks earlier on. I can't see them lasting above 30 years.
Based on the old saying "If it isn't Broken, don't Fix it"; Was it Cost Effective to bring in the AZUMA, over the HST. Because it can still be cheaper to Charter a Small Plane that to travel by Train.
First the Azuma started slightly earlier than the HST, but how silly is that a Brand New Train like the class 800 can only do 125 MPH, the same as a 50 year old HST, that realy is not progress.
Tbh they could probably make it go faster but current uk line speed and signalling limit it to 125. With ects upgrades we could do 145. Theres a reason hs1 and all proper high speed trains have in cab signalling as you cant see normal signals at high speed
@@jammy2405 I know that as being a Rail enthusiast, this is the Argument for HS2, it is a new Railway being deigned and built for speed up to around 300MPH, yet both the East and West Coast Mainlines have had upgrades but it seems they cant be upgraded any more for higher line speeds of 125 MPH.
@@peterwilliamallen1063 think the problem with the ecml and wcml there are a lot of curves that couldn’t be taken much faster. I believe the wcml line speed is 110 unless the train has the ability to tilt.
@@jamrah8713 No HS2 is being built not only to get a higher speed limit, but because especially from Birmingham the West Coast Main Line is now full to capacity.
Electric locos will always accelerate faster than a Diesel train, the Electric train picks it's current up from either a overhead line wire or third rail and all that happens it goes through rectifiers on the loco and then produces traction, in a Diesel like the HST, the Diesel engine does not power the train, it is an on board generator, the diesel engine makes Electricity which is then sent to electric traction motors on its bogies that then powers the train, so in a comparison between a Diesel train/ Loco and a Electric train/ Loco, the Electric train will always be the winner.
I've worked on both traction for years. My heart says HST every time. But don't kid yourself if it was a straight drag race with the 800 on electric mode it would be out of sight. Different league in acceleration.
In this video the departure of 1Y88 from platform 6 has a speed restriction over points just south of the station so can't use full power. The HST (ex Inverness service) is straight on to the up fast from platform 5.
So here you had an HST on full traction against an 800 on about 25% power.
It's not really about outright acceleration or speed though, is it ?
Ride comfort, refinement and interior quality os what makes people enjoy the journey.
From what I've read, the 800 has a poverty-spec interior with rock-hard seats.
Although the HST has a higher top speed than the 800.
@@bjoe385 No? The Azuma has not been speed tested but is known for 140mph, just like the 91 and 43 before they were speed tested? The Azuma could easily beat 148 mph set by the HST so you are completely wrong.
@@poshlad6275 Untill it’s been tested I’m only theoretically wrong.
The hst would win at high speed
Class 43 all day long, please. I grew up watching those beasts charging up and down the mainline in the 90's. I love them.
After spending over 9 hours on 2 trips and having to put up with the horrible seating on the Azumas I'll take the HST everytime.
go first class not shit standard
@@poshlad6275 not everyone can afford first class
@@foxx8017 You can also recline the seat
Clarkson in one, Hammond in the other. Only a drag race will decide.
With the Azuma you don't get the rush and power sensation leaving the station that you'd do with an HST, with the HST you can feel and hear the roar of the engine but with the Azuma it's just an annoying electric whine.
Don't agree - I must have had a better driver one day as the 80X left the station way more promptly than the HST's could. I agree on the sound though - while I don't mind electric motors (only those PWM ones) the HST had a sense of power from the noise it made, although I never really felt the acceleration was all that impressive.
At least it's not chucking out fumes though (unless it's on diesel mode to be fair).
Azuma is a fantastic train (apart from the seats) but you really cannot experience railways until you have stood right next to an HST power car and felt the insane power that it radiates
First class seats on the diesel are what first class seats should be - big, sumptuous leather. The ones on the Azuma are just normal fabric standard class with first class logos badly stitched on.
first class needs abolishing. get used to it.
Its funny how you all love the hst so much that you use its first class seats To defend it because everything else the Azuma does better
@@bizzarebanana3041 Not really people complain about the comfort of seats along with the ride quality, poor build quality on some trains, too bright lighting, loud engine noise in cabin in comparison to the hst the 800 family seems like a downgrade from the 43 to me
@@NanaGlover well those people just sound really privileged, they’re using a train I’m not sure what they expect. I’ve been on the new trains and honestly I have no complaints when l compare them to the old hsts. Plus I’ve found the engine noise to be quieter
@bizzarebanana3041 Let's see the other features:
Catering: HST has a proper buffet instead of a counter and a half arsed kitchen at seemingly random points.
Ride quality: do I have to mention anything? HST wins all day, every day, and twice on the weekend.
Standard class seating: Decently plush 2+2 seats without awfully bright lighting vs arse cramp inducing 2+2 tat with lighting brighter than a hospital.
Reliability: Yes, I am aware of HSTs and cooler issues when they were introduced, but at least they didn't crack and need their predecessors to be used again to cover (225s for Azumas). And the less said about the first IET working on the Great Western, the better.
Window alignment: again, HST wins. Not perfect but better than the IET.
Looks: entirely personal preference but I find the Azumas achingly bland to look at. Not saying I don't like it just because it's modern - I absolutely adore the looks of the slightly newer CAF Class 397s. The HST, on the other hand, is immediately recognisable, looks between good and amazing in any livery and (sliding door ones only) doesn't look as awkward as the IET as its door pockets are much closer to the carriage ends.
Service life: HSTs still ticking along with GWR, ScotRail, the MP charter, RailAdventure and Colas/Net Rail on test trains, not to mention the ones in Mexico and Nigeria.
IET: Plastic fantastic tat that had to be withdrawn for cracks earlier on. I can't see them lasting above 30 years.
Based on the old saying "If it isn't Broken, don't Fix it"; Was it Cost Effective to bring in the AZUMA, over the HST. Because it can still be cheaper to Charter a Small Plane that to travel by Train.
Everyone hating on azuma, but I loved it
HST every time! The Azumas look good but they are such a down grade over the HSTs and 225s.
The Azuma was already moving, and the Hst is heavier hardly a fair contest. 😂
yes the hst is far worse
@@deadaccount2048 YES
@@deadaccount2048 lol no
@@bizzarebanana3041 hst and Azuma are equal
Yeah, but still the Azuma was obviously holding back here.
HST All day long
First the Azuma started slightly earlier than the HST, but how silly is that a Brand New Train like the class 800 can only do 125 MPH, the same as a 50 year old HST, that realy is not progress.
Tbh they could probably make it go faster but current uk line speed and signalling limit it to 125. With ects upgrades we could do 145. Theres a reason hs1 and all proper high speed trains have in cab signalling as you cant see normal signals at high speed
@@jammy2405 I know that as being a Rail enthusiast, this is the Argument for HS2, it is a new Railway being deigned and built for speed up to around 300MPH, yet both the East and West Coast Mainlines have had upgrades but it seems they cant be upgraded any more for higher line speeds of 125 MPH.
@@peterwilliamallen1063 think the problem with the ecml and wcml there are a lot of curves that couldn’t be taken much faster. I believe the wcml line speed is 110 unless the train has the ability to tilt.
It’s only because of the speed limit being 125mph. It’s why HS2 is being made
@@jamrah8713 No HS2 is being built not only to get a higher speed limit, but because especially from Birmingham the West Coast Main Line is now full to capacity.
you made that video on my birthday
The hst would overtake it about 4 miles down if they kept going side by side
it wouldnt
@@OnTheRailwayOfficial If the 800 was in diesel mode it would
Amazing how dirty diesel gets beaten by cleaner electricity!! Some people still prefer the DINOSAUR trains 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
I prefer all the variety of traction you got in the 80s/90s not like the same plain shite you get these days
Don't much like the thought of the cracks in the new trains either.
Electric locos will always accelerate faster than a Diesel train, the Electric train picks it's current up from either a overhead line wire or third rail and all that happens it goes through rectifiers on the loco and then produces traction, in a Diesel like the HST, the Diesel engine does not power the train, it is an on board generator, the diesel engine makes Electricity which is then sent to electric traction motors on its bogies that then powers the train, so in a comparison between a Diesel train/ Loco and a Electric train/ Loco, the Electric train will always be the winner.
The azura jumped the gun, false start!
I can agree, much prefer the older BR stock/early 2000 units to this modern Hitachi crap
Who's going to reach to Doncaster first
i love hst the are so much more beter
Class 43 anytime
Much as I like the Azumas they lack character compared to the HST.
a little face