One thing I've always loved about Dune was the Reverend Mothers. Specifically, I love the fact that the Freman and the Bene Gesserit independently discovered a way to awaken the ancestral memories. It's rare in science fiction media that you get to see parallel development paths explored in any way, instead people trying to make a monolithic event spread across a galactic environment.
Unless i missed something, the bene gesserit planted that part of fremin culture when they laid the seeds that Paul and Rebecca abused to make dune happen.
@@jaquandrejones At first I thought you meant Rebecca from Chapterhouse, who also has these abilities, even though she has nothing to do with the discoveries of the Fremen or the Bene Gesserit...
While some people criticize Dune for giving the idea that simply harsh environment made the Fremen super soldiers, things like this show it was much more than that. Their people's history was defined by conflict and oppression, and so they built their skills to be able to eventually resist even the Sardukaur.
Nah....they are right....the whole "Fremen Super Soldier cause they had it hard" thing is nonsense.....as is much of Dune's world building details..(LOLz...computers aren't "thinking machines"...they are pretty much simply calculators....but they are banned for being in the likeness of the a human mind....but some how Ixian "compilers" are not computers ?)...but then focusing on the goofy tech and backgrounds/details of the various cultures defeats the point of the franchise. Dune is about questioning what you have been told.
@@thecollector6746 in the books it is kinda known that ixians use computers of some dimension but the emperor and houses look the other way because they benefit from these creations
Yes and no. I can say it as a Ukrainian. Thousands of years of history. Since Proto-European horsemen, whose origins is from our ethnic lands for 1918 borders. Here I mean, ethnically, there are still Ukrainians. And till nowadays, when those, who want our land (but can't handle agriculture and households-proven a lot), try to get it. There's a theory about word 'Fremen' connected to 'Seatch'. In Ukraine we always had Siches. Zaporizhian Siches: Khortyts'ka Sich, Tomakivs'ka Sich, Bazavluts'ka Sich, Mykytyns'ka, Chortomlyts'ka Sich, Kamyans'ka Sich, Oleshkivs'ka Sich, Nova Sich, Zadunays'ka Sich. Sich is a settlement. Derives from the verb "сікти" - 'sikty', sounds like 'sick-t-yh'. It means 'cut' or 'wheep'. Those Siches were made of wood with axes, so that they were 'cut-off'. Siches were the first democratic-like organization, which has proves in documents from European institutions from those times. Those, who wants, can search and find out a lot of things. So returning to the word 'Fremen' and 'Seathes' together. Of course, 'Fremen' derives of 'freemen', but in connection with 'Seatch' ('Sich'), we may have interesting fact that Frank Herbert read a Ukrainian writer (ethnic Ukrainian from that day Ukraine) Mykola Hohol. He wrote a book 'Taras Bulba' about Zaporizhian Sich, where we have nice description of cossaks, Sich (“To Sietch!” cried Taras, and held his hand high above his head-from that book of 1912 version) and multiple times, when the author mentions 'free men', connected to Sich. There are 2 editions of the books. The older one in the trueest, because soviets changed a lot of words to others. I may claim only about word 'Seatch' in connection to 'Sich' as a democratic state-like organization. And if someone is interested, read about Pylyp Orlyk (Philip Orlyk), who is also the author of the first 1710 constitution. So our not harsh environment of Ukraine made us as a lot of other people want claim this land, because of its qualities. But we always have bad leaders or if we have a good leader, bad ones try to fake a lot about a good leader to claim power and to usurp everything. So that, I just ask trolls and bots (if they occur), I won't answer. Read history books from the whole Europe and world, not only ruzzian made-up ones.
@@veramae4098 Palestinian identity if a much more younger concept and born out of modern geopolitics rather than actual cultural history. The Fremen are basically the Bedouin if you read about their nomadic and cultural lifestye its basically 1:1 besides the religion afaik
Sources: "Dune" by Frank Herbert "The Dune Encyclopedia" by Frank Herbert and Willis E. McNelly MISSING: Anything by Pinky and the Brian. I wholeheartedly approve.
@@joythought It'd decent on it's on, but compared to Frank's works it's lacking a lot and it seems less about the human story and more about the mechanized "humans" which I don't think that's what Frank meant to do
@@LilacSreya maybe i am bored every new media always make unnecessary change to have "the message" al women character always portayed as aggressive and unpleasant but never wrong girlboss but even butchering an entire franchise for it.
One of the reasons Herbert wrote Dune was due to the distrust he had of charismatic leaders and how the people are fickle, manipulable and surrender their freedom (with the respective critical sense and necessary distrust to the government) to follow the various scoundrels that infest the global history. The sight of JFK and the charisma he exuded - just remember the romanticism of his government and person that emerged after his assassination. The best passage of the 6 books is in the dialogue with Stilgar in "Dune Messiah": Genghis Khan killed 4 million, Hitler killed 6 million, and I sterilized planets." What a magnificent "hero" Paul Atreides was. And how the followers of a leader expand the mistakes of their leadership (religious, political, etc).
But he also wrote how Paul saw that he couldn't stop the inevitable jihad even if he removed himself, and that "The race of humans had felt its own dormancy, sensed itself grow stale and knew now only the need to experience turmoil in which the genes would mingle and the strong new mixtures survive."
Is it possible to examine the story from completely within the authors writings? Maybe without bringing your politics, especially modern politics into the story analysis?
@Jason-gg4lm Why? Frank Herbert was inspired by the North African berber tribes that lived in harsh climates. Their beliefs are clear aspect of why they, along with many desert dwelling tribes survived. That along with the Algerian struggle for independence is a key aspect of what makes the Fremen. Or are you just "muslim bad" type of guy.
Though that is probably the most accurate. I felt their story was a mixing of the history of all three Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) I could be wrong but that is what I concluded
I've followed your channel for a little while now and love the quality and variety of your content. Visuals are really important for how much I enjoy things. Dune is an incredibly deep universe. Having not read (or listened) to all the books this adds some detail and although I do enjoy it, it's far from my favourite universe to explore. There are issues with the writing which I won't spoil, some people might feel I am missing a trick with the detail. Whenever I think about Dune I can't help but think about the Homeworld game series, especially Deserts of Kharak.
If they took everyone from Poritrin who was left there to settle the planet? Did they just use the Zensunni to do all the hard work before settling it with other people?
@nvmtt1403 I got the impression of them being the original settlers but were then the hardcore rebels were dumped on dune as a punishment and expected to die on an near uninhabitable planet before the discovery of spice at that point the house Harkamen took possession of the planet while ignoring the freemen completely and treaded them more or less like the Bedouins are in the Middle East today
Been waiting on your dune episodes since the sardakkar or however the hell you spell um keep them coming now that I’m thinking about you probably waited till the movie was close
What would be really cool would be a history of the Bene Tlielax. There's a potential for alot great stories (imho). While the novels provide interesting hints of their society, sciences and their home world, a novel or two about their distant past and what led them to create axolotl tanks, face dancers and gholas would be an interesting read.
the ANderson/Herbedrt Jr books have a fascinating background, but there is the conflicts with that ENcyclopeida, but the Encyc. was never confirmed as 100% canon. The authors got rather creative.
Crazy that the Fremen's ancestors were abducted and made into slaves. Makes me understand better Chani's distrust of outsiders' intentions for the Fremen. Edit: OMG, they were constantly screwed by the Imperium! Constantly forced to colonize new planets and do the hard work, only to be uprooted and tricked again and again.
The irony of that perspective is that it doesn’t really play out in reality. The most military successful nations in history are also the most wealthy & decedent. Spain, China, France, Britain, the US, all are the most deadly at the height of their economic power & civilian ease, not the other way around. It’s one of the themes established in Dune that I really wish was better deconstructed in the later books, the same way the myth of Moad’dib is deconstructed
@@Jaxck77 Extremely Limited Scope Take, lmao. Here's the Thing, THE ONLY reason Those Nations become that way was due to the ability of there ancestors to survive and flourish in their environment, which in ancient times, was for sure brutal and harsh, The advancement and development you're speaking of, came AFTER the fact. The people that founded these nations or lived in these regions, weren't always Wealthy and Decedent. Second Point, So many other factors involved in this context you're speaking of and it can't be generalized and decided by the few factors you're mentioning here. Especially when referring to a specialized group of people on an isolated HELL planet, made up of only one biome and full of Giant Mile Long worms, with a Small population of very homogenous people and not much diversity, and comparing them to Earth, which is just completely different entirely in practically every context. Third Point, You judging "Group/Nation Development" and Wealth and Not individual/Group Fighting Prowess/Ability and basing your statement on that, makes your point completely irrelevant... because you're ignoring the context of the Series, Lmao. Think: The Fremen had Multiple HARSH environmental pressures guiding them to be the fierce combatants we see in the series, and they flourished under them. Sure they didn't have a galaxy spanning empire or the ability to make one, hell i don't even know if they could get off world, but on an individual level they were superior to ANY other human for the most part, when it comes to physicality and killing ability and urban warfare. Use your head, The Most Physically capable humans in the Dune Universe Get the Technology and Resources of the Empire, Lmao, Of course they'd dominate everyone, We're Not talking about Who was the Richest and Most Powerful as a whole, That's irrelevant in this case, because eventually the Fremen Were Given the resources and technology OF THE RICHEST AND MOST POWERFUL and that's the point. That's why they were so deadly. The best combatants in the Universe were all of a sudden given Superior (or equal) resources and tech compared to the other high level human factions and Lead By a Near Omniscient Freak Of nature, of course they'd be leaps and bounds above everyone else. Using earth as an example, Hypothetical, If we Fought With Similar weapons/style that we see in the Dune Universe, Samoans and Fijians would be monsters, and some of the best "natural" combatants because of their extreme physicality etc. Look at contact sports, lmao. You don't see Chinese Dominating Rugby. Do they have massively wealthy Nations and A history of Planet Wide Supremacy or even Regional Supremacy and Extremely sophisticated Wealth/Development like the Nations you mentioned? NO. Are they most likely FAR superior individually on a physical level than the people in the countries you mentioned? YES. Give them Resources and Tech/Wealth On par with the countries you listed and the knowledge to utilize them and they'd dominate everyone else (their individuals already Excel at the Current State of Warfare, compared to others for the reasons mentioned above, similar juxtaposition to the Fremen in Dune.). It's really that simple. Lmao. So yes, the perspective of Harsh Environments Breeding Strong warriors and those warriors being GOOD WARRIORS AND COMBATANTS does pan out in reality, lmfao. Wealth/Development doesn't mean the individual people's are Strong and powerful or deadly (Compare China and Again, Samoa or Fiji, for one example.)
Herbert had a great grasp on Civilizational change over great time. A Sci-fi genius. One can grasp this time scape just by looking into the changes of Judaism over the thousands of years.
I guess I don't understand the point of uprooting them, moving them so they'll colonize a new world, uprooting them, leaving the colony abandoned, planting them, uprooting them again....Why were they always the first option for forced resettlement?
Everyone gets positively affected. Spice doesn't cause hallucinations to most people but everyone is affected, what I don't know is if everyone is addicted enough to die without spice.
@@marceloslacerdaspice is endemic to Arakkis, it’s in the air and the food. It’s impossible to spend extended time on Arakkis exposed to the elements without becoming addicted.
What i am missing? It was the spice that allowed guild's pilots to travel between the stars. And it was discovered on dune later on, after so many travels between the planets.... So when in time there was: - jihad againts machines - finding spice on dune - sending fremen to dune I mean without machines and spice... no interstellar travels What was the chronology?
I only read the first book, and while it's not my favourite piece of literature I can definitely see why so many regard it as one of the best sci-fi novels ever 😊
The could obviously travel before spice - but it was dangerous and unreliable. They may be destroyed, end up somewhere entirely unexpected and I believe there were time dilation effects. One way to travel safety was to use AI to calculate interstellar travel but that is forbidden. Spice however allowed travel to be instantaneous, safe and reliable. Spice
I learned recently that Buhd-Islamics were a real thing in human history. Go figure. Love this. I'll give it to Bryan. His prequels did give the Freman a more fleshed out history overall
First of all, i love your work guys! But all of this seems odd. Kevin J. Andersson with Herbert's son, Brian wrote prequell series talking stories before the Guild was found (10 000yr in past). The books tell stories about the Butlerian Jihad, and during that time are already some zensunni setlements on Arrakis. Also during Butlerian Jihad, Terra was totally burnt to nuclear ember in a war against The Machines. All this is around 100 B.G. So how could the Empire sent the zensunni from Terra at 2800 A.G. if there should be no Terra by that time and zensunni shloud already be on Arrakis? I read that K.J. Anderson and B. Herbert found Frank's notes about Dune, dune's universe and his plans for the saga and according to that, they together finished the saga and wrote series of prequels. So i guess all of their work should be canon. Take care!
it’s been a while since i have read the books, but if my memory is correct, the freman where slaves during the machine wars to some of the humans that were not subjects of the AI. they got their freedom and migrated to dune and settled there before the spacing guild where ever established. like i said it’s been a long time since i read the books, but im sure the name freman is a derivative of ‘free man’ harping back from their slave days.
In the books, are Zen and Sunni-Islam treated kind of seriously, or is it more of an orientalist "cool but wacky foreign religion" take, or is it downright dismissive? (I'm not searching for reasons to write off these novels as cultural imperialism or whatever, it's just interesting that these religions were mentioned in this lore written several decades ago, and I'm curious how they were seen in the Western cultural zeitgeist of the time.)
11:54 So, all the Zensunni except for those on Hamonthep were eventually reunited. I wonder... if Frank Herbert had lived long enough, maybe he could have written a book on what happened to them. Maybe, it could have shown the descendants of the Hamonthep Zensunni reuniting with their Fremen cousins.
Also due to the buttlerian jihad and other great events, the religion of the imperium included elements of collective human experiences , as they were of the belief that religion is a living entity that evolves as the people evolve, like in the orange catholic bible (thou shall not make a machine in the likness of the human mind) . and also ended all research in AI and robotics, except on a small scale (planet ix from example was more lax in this field and continued to produce inventions in those fields) which garnered anger from the planets of the imperium and banning all ixian manufactured products. the human race was then forced to evolve the human mind itself without any reliance on machines, this in my opinion is what's missing in our human evolution, its noticeable that our reliance of evolution resulted in people without adequate skills and lowering our intelligence. take a man and leave him without any technology and he will be as dependent as a child, cant navigate without GPS, cant calculate without a calculator, cant reason or be productive without a computer. also the ban on psychoactive substances continues to further this state, as psychoactive substances make you understand yourself better and develop the voice of wisdom inside, research was done on extrasensory perception and the effect of psychoactive plants,fungi and drugs ,such as mushrooms,cannabis, peyote,and lsd. and the results were in line with dune's findings. psychoactive compounds awaken extra sensory perception and the voice within, it helps one reason without attachment or bias and look at situations in a correct way. therefore contributing to the development and evolution of the human mind.
@HenryThree The fourth book had some really cool ideas presented, but it's held back by Frank every couple chapters using the protagonist as a vehicle to talk about contemporary issues and his own theories regarding them. It dates the book, which is a shame as Dune had felt pretty timeless up until then.
If it's any consultation, the Dune Encyclopedia was not written by Frank Herbert, but dozens of anonymous authors and compiled by McNelly, whom Frank Herbert had planned collaboration with before he died. To explain any discrepancies and to allow Frank the wiggle room to do what he wanted with the universe, the book is written as an in-universe Encyclopedia, and therefore relies on fake sources that can be discredited rather than being the author's word of god. Still infinitely better than anything Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson could come up with.
I was always curious about where the worms came from. I've read the majority of dune series (admittedly long ago) and can't remember a definitive answer on where the worms came from.
So like idk do we make a migration to the Dead Sea in California or something and live there as bedouins? Who knows. It’s all stories and not prophecies, tho it has pockets of prophecy within.
Greetings from Ukraine! Great video. Make a video about words in 'Dune'. There's an evident connection of the word 'Sietch', 'Seatch' and a Ukrainian Sich as a Cossack settlement. Zaporizhian Siches: Khortyts'ka Sich, Tomakivs'ka Sich, Bazavluts'ka Sich, Mykytyns'ka, Chortomlyts'ka Sich, Kamyans'ka Sich, Oleshkivs'ka Sich, Nova Sich, Zadunays'ka Sich. Sich is a settlement. Derives from the verb "сікти" - 'sikty', sounds like 'sick-t-yh'. It means 'cut' or 'wheep'. Those Siches were made of wood with axes, so that they were 'cut-off'. Siches were the first democratic-like organization, which has proves in documents from European institutions from those times. 'Zaporizhzhian' is a toponymic region meaning 'behind the river rapids' - 'za'-'behind', 'porih'-'rapid', '-zhzhia'-suffix meaning reagionaliity, kind of '-shire' in English. So it would be interesting to hear about the words from other languages.
The ships used computers until they were outlawed after the Butlerian Jihad. By that time the spacing navigators were using large amounts of spice. However it still took centuries after the Jihad for the navigators to mutant to the point were they could navigate through the worm hole created by the Guild ships.
Christopher didnt write anything new stop spreading lies. He just compiled his fathers notes and published it. Silmarllion was already being written by Tolkien, but sadly he died before he could polish it, hence the many notes and paper left behind.
@@InvictaHistory Oh ok. Frank's books only have references to freeman ancestors getting enslaved till they become stronger on Arrakis, IRC. I don't remember Brian's references to freeman ancestors but for Earth it's only in relation to the butlarian jihad and maybe a visit later when his characters are on the run from honored matres, again if I remember correctly. Interesting video anyway, thanks for the quick reply.
@@gaslone79 I'm just a bit into the battle of corrin (Legends of Dune 3 book). It seems to me that a lot of Brian's books have inconsistency with the original lore. For example, in Dune, it specified the Butlerian Jihad ends in 108 BG, whereas The Battle of Corrin (book) starts in 69 BG where the Jihad has been raging for yonks. I don't care much for the Brian hate though. I can separate the lore between the two authors. I can hold two canons in my head at the same time.
@@gaslone79Actually, I don't remember which book, but Brian does cover an early prototype ship carrying Zen Sunni slaves on their escape and winding up on Arrakis. I think that it's an underrated source of lore.
Listening to this I find it hilarious because there is something like zensunnism emerging in the Arab world and it is popular among women where Muslims combine oriental beliefs like Buddhism new age and Islam. They don't know it neither name it but this new age Islam is literally similar to what dune predicted.
I take it we aren't counting the Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert books? When did the fandom remove them from canon? It seems like a lot of people are only counting the resource book and the 6 originals.
New episode on "Growing Up Fremen" th-cam.com/video/ATi1dZ6xAxQ/w-d-xo.html
One thing I've always loved about Dune was the Reverend Mothers. Specifically, I love the fact that the Freman and the Bene Gesserit independently discovered a way to awaken the ancestral memories. It's rare in science fiction media that you get to see parallel development paths explored in any way, instead people trying to make a monolithic event spread across a galactic environment.
Unless i missed something, the bene gesserit planted that part of fremin culture when they laid the seeds that Paul and Rebecca abused to make dune happen.
@@jaquandrejones who tf is Rebecca?
@@SjofnBM1989 lmao I cant believe I used the actress' name from the movie. I meant Jessica
@@jaquandrejones At first I thought you meant Rebecca from Chapterhouse, who also has these abilities, even though she has nothing to do with the discoveries of the Fremen or the Bene Gesserit...
@@DHirsch Rebecca is a great character later in the series
While some people criticize Dune for giving the idea that simply harsh environment made the Fremen super soldiers, things like this show it was much more than that. Their people's history was defined by conflict and oppression, and so they built their skills to be able to eventually resist even the Sardukaur.
These newly invented origins show it was much more than that!
Nah....they are right....the whole "Fremen Super Soldier cause they had it hard" thing is nonsense.....as is much of Dune's world building details..(LOLz...computers aren't "thinking machines"...they are pretty much simply calculators....but they are banned for being in the likeness of the a human mind....but some how Ixian "compilers" are not computers ?)...but then focusing on the goofy tech and backgrounds/details of the various cultures defeats the point of the franchise. Dune is about questioning what you have been told.
@@thecollector6746 in the books it is kinda known that ixians use computers of some dimension but the emperor and houses look the other way because they benefit from these creations
@@thecollector6746 the "thinking machines" refered to in Dune is AI, like they fought in the machine crusade, not computers.
Yes and no. I can say it as a Ukrainian. Thousands of years of history. Since Proto-European horsemen, whose origins is from our ethnic lands for 1918 borders. Here I mean, ethnically, there are still Ukrainians. And till nowadays, when those, who want our land (but can't handle agriculture and households-proven a lot), try to get it.
There's a theory about word 'Fremen' connected to 'Seatch'. In Ukraine we always had Siches. Zaporizhian Siches: Khortyts'ka Sich, Tomakivs'ka Sich, Bazavluts'ka Sich, Mykytyns'ka, Chortomlyts'ka Sich, Kamyans'ka Sich, Oleshkivs'ka Sich, Nova Sich, Zadunays'ka Sich. Sich is a settlement. Derives from the verb "сікти" - 'sikty', sounds like 'sick-t-yh'. It means 'cut' or 'wheep'. Those Siches were made of wood with axes, so that they were 'cut-off'. Siches were the first democratic-like organization, which has proves in documents from European institutions from those times. Those, who wants, can search and find out a lot of things.
So returning to the word 'Fremen' and 'Seathes' together. Of course, 'Fremen' derives of 'freemen', but in connection with 'Seatch' ('Sich'), we may have interesting fact that Frank Herbert read a Ukrainian writer (ethnic Ukrainian from that day Ukraine) Mykola Hohol. He wrote a book 'Taras Bulba' about Zaporizhian Sich, where we have nice description of cossaks, Sich (“To Sietch!” cried Taras, and held his hand high above his head-from that book of 1912 version) and multiple times, when the author mentions 'free men', connected to Sich. There are 2 editions of the books. The older one in the trueest, because soviets changed a lot of words to others.
I may claim only about word 'Seatch' in connection to 'Sich' as a democratic state-like organization. And if someone is interested, read about Pylyp Orlyk (Philip Orlyk), who is also the author of the first 1710 constitution.
So our not harsh environment of Ukraine made us as a lot of other people want claim this land, because of its qualities. But we always have bad leaders or if we have a good leader, bad ones try to fake a lot about a good leader to claim power and to usurp everything. So that, I just ask trolls and bots (if they occur), I won't answer. Read history books from the whole Europe and world, not only ruzzian made-up ones.
PLEASE make more Dune videos, this is incredible
We've already done one on "Welcome to Arrakis" and a "Units of Dune - The Sardaukar" but will certainly be looking to do more
@@InvictaHistorymake a playlist! Bene Gesserit are the main mythology I think.
I always thought the Fremen were descendents of Palestinians.
@@veramae4098 The author modeled them after the Arab world intentionally.
@@veramae4098 Palestinian identity if a much more younger concept and born out of modern geopolitics rather than actual cultural history. The Fremen are basically the Bedouin if you read about their nomadic and cultural lifestye its basically 1:1 besides the religion afaik
Sources:
"Dune" by Frank Herbert
"The Dune Encyclopedia" by Frank Herbert and Willis E. McNelly
MISSING: Anything by Pinky and the Brian.
I wholeheartedly approve.
Sorry, I like Brian's work.
don't forget dune encyclopedia can be downloaded free from internet archive.
@@longnamenocansayyI thought it was a book?
@@joythought It'd decent on it's on, but compared to Frank's works it's lacking a lot and it seems less about the human story and more about the mechanized "humans" which I don't think that's what Frank meant to do
Adds a whole new layer to Chani's line "this prophecy is how they enslave us"
In the books she doesn't say that. She's an ardent supporter of Paul.
@@joshsomerville6048 I hate this part actually, the make sure they have independent wahmen moment and added non nuisance.
ugh
@@jalpat2272 Why must people like you always complain about “independent women”. Just get over it.
@@LilacSreya maybe i am bored every new media always make unnecessary change to have "the message" al women character always portayed as aggressive and unpleasant but never wrong girlboss but even butchering an entire franchise for it.
One of the reasons Herbert wrote Dune was due to the distrust he had of charismatic leaders and how the people are fickle, manipulable and surrender their freedom (with the respective critical sense and necessary distrust to the government) to follow the various scoundrels that infest the global history.
The sight of JFK and the charisma he exuded - just remember the romanticism of his government and person that emerged after his assassination.
The best passage of the 6 books is in the dialogue with Stilgar in "Dune Messiah": Genghis Khan killed 4 million, Hitler killed 6 million, and I sterilized planets." What a magnificent "hero" Paul Atreides was. And how the followers of a leader expand the mistakes of their leadership (religious, political, etc).
But he also wrote how Paul saw that he couldn't stop the inevitable jihad even if he removed himself, and that "The race of humans had felt its own dormancy, sensed itself grow stale and knew now only the need to experience turmoil in which the genes would mingle and the strong new mixtures survive."
@@samurai8698 The great Tale of the Golden Path.
Mao Zedong killed 40 to 80 million and yet he's still worshipped with a semi-religious fervour in a supposedly atheist China
Which make especially ironic that people think that Paul is a hero... lol
Is it possible to examine the story from completely within the authors writings? Maybe without bringing your politics, especially modern politics into the story analysis?
So they were a mix between japanese zen Buddhists and sunni muslims thats actually really fucking interesting
@@Jason-gg4lm i mean its a desert planet so it fits (and im saying this as Somone who literally hates muslims and islam)
@Jason-gg4lm Why? Frank Herbert was inspired by the North African berber tribes that lived in harsh climates. Their beliefs are clear aspect of why they, along with many desert dwelling tribes survived. That along with the Algerian struggle for independence is a key aspect of what makes the Fremen.
Or are you just "muslim bad" type of guy.
Though that is probably the most accurate. I felt their story was a mixing of the history of all three Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) I could be wrong but that is what I concluded
@@Hoboman-1453 i mean they are literally called the zensunni
@@andrew9371 I know that was a very neat little naming convention that I enjoyed
The Fremen were originally Hobbits from the West Farthing.
Ok, jew
😂😂😂 Good one! 👌👍
@ryanok1757 Wow, nice one Adolf.
This is the new canon. Dagor Dagorath or Kralizec is yet to come.
Good brain
Great retelling of the Fremen History. Can't wait for the next one.
I've followed your channel for a little while now and love the quality and variety of your content. Visuals are really important for how much I enjoy things. Dune is an incredibly deep universe. Having not read (or listened) to all the books this adds some detail and although I do enjoy it, it's far from my favourite universe to explore. There are issues with the writing which I won't spoil, some people might feel I am missing a trick with the detail. Whenever I think about Dune I can't help but think about the Homeworld game series, especially Deserts of Kharak.
If they took everyone from Poritrin who was left there to settle the planet? Did they just use the Zensunni to do all the hard work before settling it with other people?
Probably yes.
well, you dont house the construction workers in the condos they built, do you?
@nvmtt1403 I got the impression of them being the original settlers but were then the hardcore rebels were dumped on dune as a punishment and expected to die on an near uninhabitable planet before the discovery of spice at that point the house Harkamen took possession of the planet while ignoring the freemen completely and treaded them more or less like the Bedouins are in the Middle East today
What Dune lore should we cover next? Go to buyraycon.com/Invicta for 15% off your order, plus free shipping! Brought to you by Raycon.
That time Paul said: It's Muad'Dibing time, and Muad'Dibed through the desert
A video on the Sardaukar would be awesome.
@@tabularasa_br already made one th-cam.com/video/jKEYSQU0VAE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=a7kStF2wSpgq2ttX
@@InvictaHistory didn't see that one. Will watch. Your channel is one of the best ones, by the way :)
Let my guess? The Emperor is Russian? Because that is worst geopolitics, ever!
The Imperial State was rlly just moving the Zensunni around like they were playing Rise of Empires or smth😭
Dune lore? A delightful surprise!
High quality work as ever gentlemen.
The Fremen were already on Arrakis by 1AG. They found the spice that was used to establish the Guild, so AG age began.
So awesome, hope there will be more Dune content
This is awesome, really enjoy your Dune lore videos
Excellent work! Loving the Dune lore videos.
This is fascinating - and way cool! Please create more Dune-related content! I would watch the heck out of that :D
Great content. Clear explanation with star maps and pictures. The best video. 🙂
Thank you so much for this history of the Freman. Had no idea they endured so much. Look forward to your next video
Been waiting on your dune episodes since the sardakkar or however the hell you spell um keep them coming now that I’m thinking about you probably waited till the movie was close
Very well done I really enjoyed this!
The sleeper has awakened...
Space Atheist : Startrek
Space muslims : Dune
Space christians : Imperium of man
Christians are Pax from Endymion or Ori from Star Gate :-)
@@MM-zg4wu i wouldn't say Pax are Space Christians and more Space "medival catholics" or Space Tele Evangelists
No Hindus and Buddhist?
@@experience741 unfortunately no and I'm a budhist too 😭
Space Taoists: Star Wars
Space Cultists: Futurama
Space Pagans: Starfinder
Space Pantheists: Avatar film series
What would be really cool would be a history of the Bene Tlielax. There's a potential for alot great stories (imho).
While the novels provide interesting hints of their society, sciences and their home world, a novel or two about their distant past and what led them to create axolotl tanks, face dancers and gholas would be an interesting read.
the ANderson/Herbedrt Jr books have a fascinating background, but there is the conflicts with that ENcyclopeida, but the Encyc. was never confirmed as 100% canon. The authors got rather creative.
I love how you guys did this, I think you'll love the Tron series, too.
Crazy that the Fremen's ancestors were abducted and made into slaves. Makes me understand better Chani's distrust of outsiders' intentions for the Fremen. Edit: OMG, they were constantly screwed by the Imperium! Constantly forced to colonize new planets and do the hard work, only to be uprooted and tricked again and again.
The origins of the Dune universe are interesting!
You mean the *Duniverse*
A harsh land can breed deadly warriors.
The irony of that perspective is that it doesn’t really play out in reality. The most military successful nations in history are also the most wealthy & decedent. Spain, China, France, Britain, the US, all are the most deadly at the height of their economic power & civilian ease, not the other way around. It’s one of the themes established in Dune that I really wish was better deconstructed in the later books, the same way the myth of Moad’dib is deconstructed
@@Jaxck77 Yeah. Bret Devereaux's "A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry" has a series called "The Fremen Mirage" on this.
@@jy3n2 Fantastic recommend thank you!
@@Jaxck77 Extremely Limited Scope Take, lmao. Here's the Thing, THE ONLY reason Those Nations become that way was due to the ability of there ancestors to survive and flourish in their environment, which in ancient times, was for sure brutal and harsh, The advancement and development you're speaking of, came AFTER the fact. The people that founded these nations or lived in these regions, weren't always Wealthy and Decedent.
Second Point, So many other factors involved in this context you're speaking of and it can't be generalized and decided by the few factors you're mentioning here. Especially when referring to a specialized group of people on an isolated HELL planet, made up of only one biome and full of Giant Mile Long worms, with a Small population of very homogenous people and not much diversity, and comparing them to Earth, which is just completely different entirely in practically every context.
Third Point, You judging "Group/Nation Development" and Wealth and Not individual/Group Fighting Prowess/Ability and basing your statement on that, makes your point completely irrelevant... because you're ignoring the context of the Series, Lmao.
Think: The Fremen had Multiple HARSH environmental pressures guiding them to be the fierce combatants we see in the series, and they flourished under them. Sure they didn't have a galaxy spanning empire or the ability to make one, hell i don't even know if they could get off world, but on an individual level they were superior to ANY other human for the most part, when it comes to physicality and killing ability and urban warfare. Use your head, The Most Physically capable humans in the Dune Universe Get the Technology and Resources of the Empire, Lmao, Of course they'd dominate everyone, We're Not talking about Who was the Richest and Most Powerful as a whole, That's irrelevant in this case, because eventually the Fremen Were Given the resources and technology OF THE RICHEST AND MOST POWERFUL and that's the point. That's why they were so deadly. The best combatants in the Universe were all of a sudden given Superior (or equal) resources and tech compared to the other high level human factions and Lead By a Near Omniscient Freak Of nature, of course they'd be leaps and bounds above everyone else.
Using earth as an example, Hypothetical, If we Fought With Similar weapons/style that we see in the Dune Universe, Samoans and Fijians would be monsters, and some of the best "natural" combatants because of their extreme physicality etc. Look at contact sports, lmao. You don't see Chinese Dominating Rugby. Do they have massively wealthy Nations and A history of Planet Wide Supremacy or even Regional Supremacy and Extremely sophisticated Wealth/Development like the Nations you mentioned? NO. Are they most likely FAR superior individually on a physical level than the people in the countries you mentioned? YES. Give them Resources and Tech/Wealth On par with the countries you listed and the knowledge to utilize them and they'd dominate everyone else (their individuals already Excel at the Current State of Warfare, compared to others for the reasons mentioned above, similar juxtaposition to the Fremen in Dune.). It's really that simple. Lmao.
So yes, the perspective of Harsh Environments Breeding Strong warriors and those warriors being GOOD WARRIORS AND COMBATANTS does pan out in reality, lmfao. Wealth/Development doesn't mean the individual people's are Strong and powerful or deadly (Compare China and Again, Samoa or Fiji, for one example.)
@@Jaxck77 Only after the invention of the gun. Before it, settled people constantly lost against nomads.
Frakin great content 🤘🏾fantastic art and editing!
Last time I was this early, George RR Martin still hadn’t finished the last book in a song of ice and fire.
We are all with you on that one.
Thank you!
Herbert had a great grasp on Civilizational change over great time. A Sci-fi genius. One can grasp this time scape just by looking into the changes of Judaism over the thousands of years.
I guess I don't understand the point of uprooting them, moving them so they'll colonize a new world, uprooting them, leaving the colony abandoned, planting them, uprooting them again....Why were they always the first option for forced resettlement?
God, Dune lore is amazing
Adore this video. Dune has such rich worldbuilding.
I wonder if everyone on Arrakis gets low key high from all those spice particles in the air?.
Everyone gets positively affected. Spice doesn't cause hallucinations to most people but everyone is affected, what I don't know is if everyone is addicted enough to die without spice.
@@marceloslacerdaspice is endemic to Arakkis, it’s in the air and the food. It’s impossible to spend extended time on Arakkis exposed to the elements without becoming addicted.
Spice melange is a psychedelic. It's a fungus that grows in the nests of the great sandworms.
I want more Dune lorage ❤❤❤
Amazing video! Wondering if this is extracted from any books or developed by yourself. Either way it is great content!
What a great video ❤
Invicta x Dune !!!!
love your vids!
What i am missing? It was the spice that allowed guild's pilots to travel between the stars. And it was discovered on dune later on, after so many travels between the planets....
So when in time there was:
- jihad againts machines
- finding spice on dune
- sending fremen to dune
I mean without machines and spice... no interstellar travels
What was the chronology?
I only read the first book, and while it's not my favourite piece of literature I can definitely see why so many regard it as one of the best sci-fi novels ever 😊
Did some of the zensuni on Salusa Secundus become Sardukar?
Yes, if you see that video, you will see that the Sardukar are their descendants. It’s the irony of Dune, the Fremen are fighting their own cousins.
@@Tortle-Man we all are in when it comes to war.
Hallelujah! Your Dune content is THE BEST, by far! I’ve been jonesing. THANKS!!!!!!!
Any chance of a Dune playlist?
You have 3 videos already. And I assume more are to come.
I thought only in Arrakis can spice be found, so what did the spacing guild use before for interstellar travel?
Perhaps mind was so developed they didn't even need drugs
The could obviously travel before spice - but it was dangerous and unreliable. They may be destroyed, end up somewhere entirely unexpected and I believe there were time dilation effects.
One way to travel safety was to use AI to calculate interstellar travel but that is forbidden.
Spice however allowed travel to be instantaneous, safe and reliable.
Spice
I learned recently that Buhd-Islamics were a real thing in human history. Go figure. Love this.
I'll give it to Bryan. His prequels did give the Freman a more fleshed out history overall
You are adding to my hype
Would you guys ever release your music you use in these dune videos?
God created Arrakis to train the faithful. One cannot go against the word of god
Love this!!!!!!
MORE DUNE VIDEOS PLEASE
Amazing video.
I still have my copy of the Dune Encyclopedia.
You lucky fucker.
First of all, i love your work guys!
But all of this seems odd. Kevin J. Andersson with Herbert's son, Brian wrote prequell series talking stories before the Guild was found (10 000yr in past). The books tell stories about the Butlerian Jihad, and during that time are already some zensunni setlements on Arrakis. Also during Butlerian Jihad, Terra was totally burnt to nuclear ember in a war against The Machines. All this is around 100 B.G.
So how could the Empire sent the zensunni from Terra at 2800 A.G. if there should be no Terra by that time and zensunni shloud already be on Arrakis?
I read that K.J. Anderson and B. Herbert found Frank's notes about Dune, dune's universe and his plans for the saga and according to that, they together finished the saga and wrote series of prequels. So i guess all of their work should be canon.
Take care!
"Legends of Dune" by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson was a fantastic trilogy in the Dune prequel series.
If only you knew Arabic, you would understand the true meaning of those words. 💪🏻🔻
Translate then poopsie.
Of course 🔻🔻🔻
it’s been a while since i have read the books, but if my memory is correct, the freman where slaves during the machine wars to some of the humans that were not subjects of the AI. they got their freedom and migrated to dune and settled there before the spacing guild where ever established.
like i said it’s been a long time since i read the books, but im sure the name freman is a derivative of ‘free man’ harping back from their slave days.
In the books, are Zen and Sunni-Islam treated kind of seriously, or is it more of an orientalist "cool but wacky foreign religion" take, or is it downright dismissive? (I'm not searching for reasons to write off these novels as cultural imperialism or whatever, it's just interesting that these religions were mentioned in this lore written several decades ago, and I'm curious how they were seen in the Western cultural zeitgeist of the time.)
That's a good question
11:54 So, all the Zensunni except for those on Hamonthep were eventually reunited. I wonder... if Frank Herbert had lived long enough, maybe he could have written a book on what happened to them. Maybe, it could have shown the descendants of the Hamonthep Zensunni reuniting with their Fremen cousins.
The thelaxu are zensunni
@@patrickday4206 Yes, but are they the Zensunni from Hamonthep?
Very nice video
Also due to the buttlerian jihad and other great events, the religion of the imperium included elements of collective human experiences , as they were of the belief that religion is a living entity that evolves as the people evolve, like in the orange catholic bible (thou shall not make a machine in the likness of the human mind) . and also ended all research in AI and robotics, except on a small scale (planet ix from example was more lax in this field and continued to produce inventions in those fields) which garnered anger from the planets of the imperium and banning all ixian manufactured products.
the human race was then forced to evolve the human mind itself without any reliance on machines, this in my opinion is what's missing in our human evolution, its noticeable that our reliance of evolution resulted in people without adequate skills and lowering our intelligence.
take a man and leave him without any technology and he will be as dependent as a child, cant navigate without GPS, cant calculate without a calculator, cant reason or be productive without a computer.
also the ban on psychoactive substances continues to further this state, as psychoactive substances make you understand yourself better and develop the voice of wisdom inside, research was done on extrasensory perception and the effect of psychoactive plants,fungi and drugs ,such as mushrooms,cannabis, peyote,and lsd. and the results were in line with dune's findings.
psychoactive compounds awaken extra sensory perception and the voice within, it helps one reason without attachment or bias and look at situations in a correct way. therefore contributing to the development and evolution of the human mind.
So. The "Dune Encyclopedia" exists.
Where did you get your images from, Google AI? Did the Dune universe become "California"?
I truly love the Dune books, particularly the first 3. This history seems very contrived however, despite the FH authorship.
The first book was great, the second book was alright, the third book was readable, and the last three were none of those things.
@burgay3 Yeah, tend to agree.
@HenryThree The fourth book had some really cool ideas presented, but it's held back by Frank every couple chapters using the protagonist as a vehicle to talk about contemporary issues and his own theories regarding them. It dates the book, which is a shame as Dune had felt pretty timeless up until then.
If it's any consultation, the Dune Encyclopedia was not written by Frank Herbert, but dozens of anonymous authors and compiled by McNelly, whom Frank Herbert had planned collaboration with before he died.
To explain any discrepancies and to allow Frank the wiggle room to do what he wanted with the universe, the book is written as an in-universe Encyclopedia, and therefore relies on fake sources that can be discredited rather than being the author's word of god.
Still infinitely better than anything Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson could come up with.
Instant sub, if only for the fact that you used the Dune Encyclopedia as a source, and not anything from the BH/KJA universe.
I was always curious about where the worms came from. I've read the majority of dune series (admittedly long ago) and can't remember a definitive answer on where the worms came from.
"lead the people into Paris" 17:02
Great video bro, I’d love to be a fremen
Imagine if there is someone merge sunni and Zen Buddhism because Dune
There and it was there since the middle ages, how do you think the bloody child eater crusaders got defeated!
Hell YES!!!
so the sardukar and freman share a common ancestor?
I always thought it was 'Harmonthep'?
I would like to see about the units and structure of the Hunnic army
Oh, that’s what he looks like.
So like idk do we make a migration to the Dead Sea in California or something and live there as bedouins? Who knows. It’s all stories and not prophecies, tho it has pockets of prophecy within.
The Fremen originated when Herbert stole the Bedouin right out from under Lawrence of Arabia when he saw the movie by Lean.
Yuhhhhh dune lore
Damn, the only one in this story not holding the idiot ball is Baron Micarole, the governor of Terra.
Greetings from Ukraine!
Great video.
Make a video about words in 'Dune'.
There's an evident connection of the word 'Sietch', 'Seatch' and a Ukrainian Sich as a Cossack settlement.
Zaporizhian Siches: Khortyts'ka Sich, Tomakivs'ka Sich, Bazavluts'ka Sich, Mykytyns'ka, Chortomlyts'ka Sich, Kamyans'ka Sich, Oleshkivs'ka Sich, Nova Sich, Zadunays'ka Sich. Sich is a settlement. Derives from the verb "сікти" - 'sikty', sounds like 'sick-t-yh'. It means 'cut' or 'wheep'. Those Siches were made of wood with axes, so that they were 'cut-off'. Siches were the first democratic-like organization, which has proves in documents from European institutions from those times.
'Zaporizhzhian' is a toponymic region meaning 'behind the river rapids' - 'za'-'behind', 'porih'-'rapid', '-zhzhia'-suffix meaning reagionaliity, kind of '-shire' in English.
So it would be interesting to hear about the words from other languages.
Great video. How did the Guild navigate before the discovery of the spice?
The ships used computers until they were outlawed after the Butlerian Jihad. By that time the spacing navigators were using large amounts of spice. However it still took centuries after the Jihad for the navigators to mutant to the point were they could navigate through the worm hole created by the Guild ships.
@@amunra5330 thank you!
they probably had a lot more crashes and lost more cargo.
The books by Frank Herbert’s son are little worse that Christopher Tolkien trying to expand his grandfathers world.
both were nothing more than bad fan-fic
Christopher didnt write anything new stop spreading lies. He just compiled his fathers notes and published it. Silmarllion was already being written by Tolkien, but sadly he died before he could polish it, hence the many notes and paper left behind.
@@aurelian2668 He definitely expanded on children of Huron. It wasn’t bad but he never did anything himself of note beyond what his grandfather did.
Why does this sound so different from the books of brian herbert and kevin anderson, are they not cannon?
What are his sources fot this? I've read most of the books and I don't remember the stuff at the beginning of the video.
Dune Encyclopedia which predates amd differs from Brian's later work. We have opted to follow this lore branch.
@@InvictaHistory Oh ok. Frank's books only have references to freeman ancestors getting enslaved till they become stronger on Arrakis, IRC.
I don't remember Brian's references to freeman ancestors but for Earth it's only in relation to the butlarian jihad and maybe a visit later when his characters are on the run from honored matres, again if I remember correctly.
Interesting video anyway, thanks for the quick reply.
@@gaslone79 I'm just a bit into the battle of corrin (Legends of Dune 3 book). It seems to me that a lot of Brian's books have inconsistency with the original lore.
For example, in Dune, it specified the Butlerian Jihad ends in 108 BG, whereas The Battle of Corrin (book) starts in 69 BG where the Jihad has been raging for yonks.
I don't care much for the Brian hate though. I can separate the lore between the two authors. I can hold two canons in my head at the same time.
@@gaslone79Actually, I don't remember which book, but Brian does cover an early prototype ship carrying Zen Sunni slaves on their escape and winding up on Arrakis. I think that it's an underrated source of lore.
@@joythought Bad fan-fic is in no way a source of lore. It is what it is, bad fan-fic
Could you do a version from the Prequels?
Listening to this I find it hilarious because there is something like zensunnism emerging in the Arab world and it is popular among women where Muslims combine oriental beliefs like Buddhism new age and Islam. They don't know it neither name it but this new age Islam is literally similar to what dune predicted.
I didn't know Dune was this much influenced by Islam. From Sunni to Fiqh and Ilm to Syed to Hajrah.
But what do they even mean to 3rd Muhammad?? lol
I take it we aren't counting the Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert books? When did the fandom remove them from canon? It seems like a lot of people are only counting the resource book and the 6 originals.
Many orthorodox herbertians reject Brian's books and its themes and wriitng as shit or stupid.
@@josephnarvaez9507 Well I get that, but its kind of a subjective bar. I didn't like 3001, but its still cannon to the 2001 space odyssey books.
I love the Fremen, I was kinda sad that the movie removed their Islamic influence in the recent film.
What are you talking about they doubled down on the Islamic influence the old movie removed it though
It's still there. Can't detach Dune from the inspiration that Frank had.
Well let’s wait and see what happens in part two once it drops.
@@merlebarney i hope it's gonna be the same director hes great
@@andrew9371 Yup same director Denis Villeneuve.
It'll be cool if they ever try making another adaptation of this...The last one, in 1984, was pretty good, then they just stopped.
I cant tell if youre being sarcastic but have you not heard of the Dune movies that just got made?
ah, i thought there's a scientist being thrown there by the name of Gordon, he's a free man.
so are the fremen and Sardaukars related from a common ancestry?
Not in a million years does Zen value personhood.
The fremen are the descendants of Morgan Freeman
Isn't the Sardukar also descendants of the zensunni?