Why James Harden's Rockets stopped passing | Mike D'Antoni enhanced pod
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2024
- Coach Mike D'Antoni explains why the James Harden Rockets leaned into more isolation (with less and less ball movement) as defenses adapted to play them differently in this enhanced podcast segment.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
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there is a great little segment with Chris Paul about this. as he tells it, this was initially, before every other team started switching, 100% a strategy to beat the warriors, even at the expense of regular season performance. to their credit, they put up a good fight against the best on-paper team ever. Harden also deserves credit for reinventing himself after the dribbledribbledribble phase of his career came to an end.
And 40 missed threes in game 7. But yeah that too
Where is this? Was this on JJ’s Podcast?
@@RealEyesRealizeFascists all of those missed threes happened because it became a robotic style of play dependent on the next man hitting the shot rather than players moving about the court in finding easy ways to score
@@DJ-ys9pv yeah I believe so
its cuz harden was always a spectacular playmaker. only people that thought he was a ball hog were haters or casuals.
Dantoni doesn’t receive enough credit for revolutionizing the game. I think some of the influence that people attribute to curry, can also be attributed to dantoni.
Curry and Steve Kerr revolutionized the game and Dantoni and Harden took it to it's logical conclusion.
@@calebangell77 Yeah and I think there might be a new revolution coming because now every team resembles the Houston Rockets in terms of roster construction with 1-2 iso scorers/decision makers, one picknroll big, and everyone else 3&D with another stretch big that can play center
Nelly, D'Antoni and Kerr can claim the credit for high speed shoot friendly offence. They took the dominant position (big strong slow centres), and made it near unplayable on a court.
@@calebangell77 7 seconds or less Suns were the first team to really start the revolution. And it makes sense what occurred with GSW as Kerr was our GM during a portion of those years with Suns.
@@user-gm5gc1be4w that is literally the revolution curry and the warriors created wtf are you on😂…… every player has to be able to knock down threes and defend insanely well, even the big. We are still in the curry/warriors revolution and looks like we will be for a long long time
Probably the best team to lose before the finals. They took the best team ever in my opinion to 7 games
Not only that, they were down a CP3 and took them to miss 27 threes in a row to lose game 7.
@@KniGht1st1 and only lost by 9 points
They would have won if Ariza just hit a couple of them.
Effort vs Talent = GSW squeezed by.
Lets be honest the Warriors weren’t even trying the first 5 games of that series, because if we were it would’ve been a gentleman sweep for us
Bruh I can’t believe this dude is 70 he looks really in shape lol
Love the insights from d’antoni, also cool to see he still remembers some of those analytics numbers
Loved this episode, and it's great seeing the joy in Mike's face when he's talking about why it was so efficient even if it wasn't pretty.
D’Antoni coached my cousin overseas before he joined the Pacers. When Coach came to the NBA I was juiced! Big love for him in our family
Who’s your cousin ? 🤔
Italy 🇮🇹 🔥
@@xxxkipperdipperxxx6783from 1990 to 1997 he was in Italy, so his cousin might be a domestic player in Olimpia Milano or Benetton Basket (the teams D'Antoni coached)
James Harden is the reason why i started watching NBA. This guy's skillset is just amazing to watch and such a game changer. One of the greatest scorers to ever play. Huge respect for coach Mike D'Antoni for recognizing Harden's offensive skills.
@Mr. Melendez those people are fkn idiots. Boo hoo he flops to get free points - so do plenty of others. He's just so smooth and phenomenal at offence, has a million ways to score and pass. Genius bball IQ
Same
same, and imagine am from Africa where football is the only sport we exposed to, harden was just different gravy 🥶🥶 especially with " cooking" celebration he used to do 🔥🥵
His skill set was pretty limited, and once defenses keyed in on him, he crumbled.
he was getting double teamed and triple teamed, if you put him in isolation, he could score with any skillset@@mrskinszszs
I remember watching the full pod of this and dantoni drooped so many gems
Rockets fan since 90. People didn't like it but they couldn't stop it. It just didn't work in the playoffs bc Harden wasn't getting the same calls. Even still if CP3 never gets hurts..... that will always sting.
Fact
Dont tell me enjoyed this fat, flopping choker taking 30 FTs.
Are you sure your a rockets fan??? It definitely worked in the playoffs. I don't know if you know but the rockets lost a 7 game series by 3 points to the greatest team of all time missing their 3nd best player.
@@aarong9128 3nd
The difference in calls was a factor - you just aren’t going to get the lazy assumption calls/lazy defense fouls youll get in the regular season and so some contact goes uncalled and foul rates go down. Added to this was that Harden’s 3 point efficiency decreased in the playoffs.
I think this rockets team kinda showed that it’s really risky to make drawing fouls a serious part of your offensive strategy
I loooove this channel….. great way to digestive some of the strategic aspects of the game! Makes watching more fun when you can understand what other teams are trying to do
It's just pure math. D'antoni plays the most efficient offense based on the player he has. That's the definition of a good coach.
Hey Lebron fanboy, you still good?
What an insightful conversation, super interesting to see how the back and forth between defensive and offensive schemes leads to overall evolution of the game
The capela lob from the dunker spot was such a headache for defenses. Once harden had the first step on you it’s automatic. It would happen sometimes 2-4 possessions in a row.
schroder being in that isolation list is something else, goes to show you how even a role player is that good
Dennis was always an underappreciated iso player. His speed alone is incredibly difficult to guard and he was a streaky shooter with sneakily good finishing around the rim. He just has a lot of other limitations that hold him back from becoming a star.
But yeah.. speed kills
no it doesnt, it shows that Dennis is above average in isolation lol
@@futurehofer1564 "no it doesnt" then "dennis is above average in isolation" man what is it? lol what a moronic reply
@@futurehofer1564 watch his games with germany and u'll see how good he is
@@joshuaabuel5812 I literally said he was good?
BEN THIS IS MY FAVORITE EPISODE. BEEN WANTNG TO SEE A TH-cam VID ON THIS SINCE THAT PODCAST EPISODE LAST YEAR.
IM A D'ANTONI FAN, AND I BELIEVE HE DOESNT GET THE RESPECT HE DESERVES FOR ALL THE INNOVATIONS HE PUT INTO THE GAME. YOU KNOW, HOW HIS 7SOL SUNS FORCED THE LEAGUE TO CHANGE AND EVENTUALLY EVOLVE, AND FOR HOW THE ROCKETS BASICALLY OPENED EVERYONE'S EYES BY DIVING INTO ANALYTICS VIA SPAMMING THE 3-BALL AND SOMEWHAT BRINGING BACK THE DREADED ISO.
I WISH THERE COULD BE MORE EPISODES WITH COACH MIKE SO WE CAN SEE/HEAR MORE OF HIS GENIUS AND HOPEFULLY HE GETS INTO THE HALL SOME DAY.
Love hearing from the Mike, Dan and Toni boys
Ben just talking hoops with one of the best minds in the history of the game. Really lends credibility to his insights.
This was my take too, man knows his basketball inside out
I absolutely loved that Rockets 2018 team. They were so fun to watch and when they were hot were honestly the best offensive team of all time or at least could rival the Warriors in terms of offense
AWESOME content
Love MDA! Brilliant mind. Hope he wins a ring someday.
And great to hear him give Point God his praise !
I’m a big MDA fan and I’ve made many assumptions about Rockets’ strategies on Warriors. 80% of them were confirmed on this podcast. Love it. Thank you so much!
Anytime I think of MDA, i just think of the game of zones scene when he first meets Harden and goes, "half the defense, DOUBLE the offense!"
I wish someone would ask D'Antoni about the playoff downsides of this heliocentric offense approach (For them: Harden's fatigue, less foul calls/more physicality in the playoffs, and inability to adjust in playoffs because Harden never played off ball and role players are never asked to do anything more). To me, this is most valid criticism of that Rockets team not aesthetics.
it did though? The Rocket's took the best team of all time to 7 games and were up by double digits half time. Chris was injured, and the team weren't getting foul calls. So yes it DID work come playoff time lmao. Everyone knew the Rocket's were the 2nd best team in the NBA and would've won the championship if chris paul didn't go down. Y'all love to criticize the Rockets when none of you have watched a single game. Yall just regurgitate ESPN talking points. Casual.
@@mkbzam In 2018 it definitely worked. The rocket's played the best basketball when healthy period. And would've beaten the best team of all time. Only reason they "didn't" win was due to unfair ref calls and chris paul getting injured. That has nothing to do with D'antoni's system.
@@madj7120 While Chris going down mid game was bad for them, the Warriors lost their sixth man in the 4th game. If Iggy doesn't get injured they win in five.
@@Charlie-jf1me who the fuck do yall think iguodala? Bro got insane gas cause he was on the warriors lol he was a ROLEPLAYER
@@Charlie-jf1me If you're gonna bring up Iggy then Rockets fans can bring up Luc Mbah a Moute who was their best perimeter defender as well and went down in the first round
Love the enhanced pods!
that was super-informative - thank you!
What’s also crazy to me is that after he left Houston he was an assistant on the nets staff and still united back with harden months later he deff loves him sum harden
Thanks for the vid
its like we are in the film room with a professional team this is amazing
Damn he got Mike D'Antoni on the Pod. Good stuff 👍🏾
great video
Harden's the best combo guard we've ever seen
What are the other combo guards ?
@@Thanosdidtherighthing I don’t think there’s a guard comparable, what other guard was able to average 30-35 points a game one season and 10-11 assists the next
Love D’Antoni, it’s gone be awhile til ppl admit how much he impacted the current NBA Playstyle‼️❤️
Dantoni was a perfect fit when he was in Phoenix and Houston. It was too bad he couldn't get the ring. 2018 was his year.
Definitely felt like they were too rigid with their approach though. Yes Harden can slice up a bad matchup when the switch comes early, but I remember him being absolutely gassed by the end of games from the ISOs. Also left a lot of their shooters cold, which probably contributed to that one 0-27 game.
That being said, I really do think if CP3 didn't go down that series it would've been a Rockets championship, and a lot of critics would've been silenced. Winning a chip requires a good amount of luck, in this case the luck of one HOF PG's hamstrings. Maybe PHX gets CP3 a chip this year?
Poor officiating also caused them to go 0-27. People don’t realize that basketball is all about rhythm. The refs weren’t calling blatant foul calls, which contributed to everyone losing their rhythm collectively
@@thelegendoof8744 yeah theres a video out where the refs either missed foul calls on 3 which should have led to free throw shots or and one 3s that were not counted.
nah it'll be harden who gets the ring. sixers in 5. don't @ me
@@zuhaibfalik4804 Klay is dirty and deserves another ACL tear
I think the perfect offense is a combination of the D’Antoni Rockets and the 2023 Nuggets. Have one guy hold the ball, but instead of just having the other 4 guys stand around, have them run off-ball actions so that the defense has to worry about the guy running the show while also having to worry more about everybody else than they might’ve had to with a simple spread iso or P&R. Basically, I think if you put replace Jokic with Harden on the current Nuggets that they’d be amazing.
That has always been a good option. Isolations are good plays as long as as the offensive player has a good match up to attack and there is good spacing.
I think the Rocket's over-reliance on Harden didn't take into account fatigue in the playoffs. The playoff fatigue is different because opposing team just get so much chance to hone in on the workings of your offense. Hence Harden being famous for close-out game meltdowns. I would hazard a guess that they would've had more playoff success, possibly a championship, if they had more go-to weapons & plays that they were able to practice in live games and pull-out of the tool kit whenever Harden wasn't having a great game. Or even just to change it up in order to manage Harden's fatigue over a possibly grueling 7 game series.
Broke my heart when Cp3 got hurt and they lost to Golden State. Harden & Chris would be viewed SO MUCH differently if they would've won that championship..
Also Coach D'Antoni would get his respect for being a mastermind & one of the most innovative coaches ever..Sad really 😂😔😔
Agreed and they definitely had a strong chance in 2018. Harden overall though declined too much in the post season. Went from being a 36.2% 3pt shooter to a 32.4% 3pt shooter in Houston playoffs .
@@Thanosdidtherighthing And that was my thing against Harden. On one hand, let's be fair, He's up against the greatest team of this era. Actually the greatest team of all time. It's not realistic to expect him to have the same level of dominance vs such an amazing team..
BUT on the other hand.. As great as Harden was, All that was needed was ONE all-time legendary performance in game 6 or 7 to cement himself as a legend. And he didn't deliver.
That’s cool as fuck that you brought MDT on the podcast
In analytics it shows that videos from our channel are often recommended to those who watch videos like this.
Too bad they didn't go all the way. Mike and Chris would have deserved it so much for many years of excellence.
Please do a video analyzing the Mavs-Lakers game that was today, and the effect Jarred Vanderbilt’s defense has on the game.
Great point. It definitely looks terrible but it worked on most teams.
I get the foul baiting but seeing harden cook up 1v1 is definitely more entertaining than catch and shoot or post scoring
@@trelllmaoyessir it really depends, I kinda prefer the screening action/catch and shoot that warriors/old spurs do but 1v1 action has some great moments too.
@@trelllmaoyessir it depends on how much repetition there is, if they are doing it every play then it’s extremely boring and one dimensional.
where do you get all these moments from games?
Man fuck I was rooting for this rockets team so unbelievably hard
If not for Chris Paul getting injured and missing the last 2 games of the series against the Warriors in 2018, the Rockets might have won the championship. It's hard to compare each teams regular season stats because Warriors had a lot of Injuries with Durant missing 14 games and Curry missing 31 games plus Klay and Draymond missing between 9-12 games. But the Rockets were up 3-2 when Paul last played. Warriors swept the Cavs so I imagine the Rockets would have easily won as well, maybe not a sweep but maybe 5 games with 6 at most.
One on one success was brought upon those quick defensive shooting fouls around the 2017-2021 era.
Everybody landed in harden space tho. He didn't side to side like KD or Chris
I dislike their style of play but it is working and thats why they used it. Its like natural selection really. Thats the best offense to emerge that could've countered gsw.
They made that 2017-2019 Warriors team look mortal. No one came closer to knocking out that superteam than the 2018 Rockets. i just wish injuries didn’t exist because we’ve lost a whole lot of good basketball just from injuries alone 😿. but, it is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
the description is in the link
God. I really wish I could go back to this era as a Rockets fan. CP and Harden was the best and way too short lived
Mike Banner Explaining Basketball from different universe to Ben Wayne, . . Dang Marvel and Dc got me here
More old time KD analysis please.
I absolutely love how he acknowledges that it wasn't pretty and it was in a sense flukey due to personnel but it fucking worked
I got love for these rockets teams because imo, that team is run exactly how any regular nba fan would probably run a team. "Just give your best guy the ball and let him work"
I want to see MDA coach Trae Young
Where the fall interview?
Philly needs this guy to bring Harden back
they used to kill this man for what exactly luka is doing today smh
Crazy because harden is more efficient in isolation 😂
@@thelegendoof8744 Luka ascends his production in the post season…. Harden declines in the post season.
Mike Dantoni sounding exactly like Larry David is a histerical mistery to my french ears.
we need dantoni to the sixers !!!!!
By the end of game 4 in 2018 I really felt like the Rockets had a real shot. Looking back I feel like it was the right result with the Warriors winning though. Iguodala didn't play games 4-7 which put guys like nick young, jordan bell and looney on the floor for extended stretches. Replace these guys with Iggy and the Rockets would have had a much harder time punishing switches with Curry being the only weaker link. Nonetheless I really admired how the Rockets nearly beat an alltime great team with their approach. Discipline was the most important trait imo against the Warriors. Using a switch everything strategy on defense as well as the iso strategy on offense really simplified things and reduced miscues which was highly important against a team which mercilessly feasted on mistakes.
Dawg we missed our best perimeter defender the entire series too. Instead of mbah a moute we had ryan anderson guarding curry in isolation in a win or go home 🥴
It kinda went the other way too with Mbah A Moute being injured. He did a better job on KD than Ariza and PJ did in the reg season. Holding KD to atleast 5 pts less would've won them one more game out of the 1-3 and maybe game 7.
Love seeing Harden, but Harden under D'Antoni was a beast, D'Antoni unlocked his potential, but wish they had won the 2018 chio 😢
Well the Hawks just fired Nate McMillan. MDA is the perfect coach for the current Hawks with Dejounte and Trae
Coach Pringles shaved his 'stache!
Now I wonder, Rockets 2017 vs Warriors 2022, how they will defend each other
i'm amazed he knew the PPP off the top of his head
He made a really good point fans at home need to realize, the game is heavily dependent on stats now. The entire playbook is based off efficiency, so at home, when you watch these guys do something and scratch your head, it might be something that has worked all year long. A good example of this was the Lakers offense last year, it was a heavy diet of LeBron isolation and 1 on 1s. Fans at home were mad the ball wasn't moving, but when you dove into the analytics the LeBron post up was their only efficient offense for the most part. Every playbook now, offense or defense is heavily dependent on statistics as much as people don't wanna believe that
For me was pretty.
It's important to have player who can beat one on one
If Fertita wasn’t cheap and actually went into luxury tax and provided more depth to the Rockets they would’ve beat GS even when CP3 went down
Most underrated coach all time just cuz casuals wanna mention rings. If CP3 doesn’t get injured, rockets take down the warriors we all know it, 3-2 lead before cp3 goes down
i understand the analytics, but i feel like its short sighted, puts all the presure on James, and when playoffs come around and he needs help, the team hasnt developed the chemsitry to step up and carry the load
It’s designed to generate overall wins, not specific wins like playoffs. If you look at the numbers, 18-19 Rockets had the “most efficient offense” according to statistics.
They did something right, but Murphy’s Law exists, and in a grand picture, they lost 4 games against the Warriors in the Playoffs, but got a bunch more Ws in other scenarios.
Kobe said it best tho, 1 player is never gonna beat a good defense at the top of the key. 1 v 5 can only take you so far.
Cap. They would have won it all w CP being healthy. Shooters w defense is what moves the teams nowadays
You do know that Kobe said that because he knew CP3 was injured during the 2019 season, and that was their only way of winning regular seasons games during that stretch, right? Even Kobe said that he knows Harden would share the ball with CP3 when he got back. I swear to god people don't actually understand context at all, lmfao
@@cottonmather8146 WeLl AcTuAlLy... shut up nerd.
@@ingusKD35 no they would not have.
@@BTizzle What's wrong? Your ego too fragile when you get told you're wrong? Sorry you can't use your idol's words to skew some biased narrative 😂
I still wonder what the 2018 Rockets beat the Steph/KD Warriors alternative timeline would be like. How different would the league look right now?
Please become the sixers coach.
You are so Right
“Houston…..we have a problem”-NASA
Imagine him having a better defensive assistant coach like Doc did with Thibs. He could've won a ring by now.
What if Mavs fire Kidd and hire Mike D'Antoni? That'd make them the best offence in the league. Also, the Hawks just sacked Nate McMillan.
he's the steph curry of coaching. He revolutionized the game of basketball with his 3 point emphasis, fast pace and no defense. I'm not even being sarcastic.
“No defense” was wrong. Rockets had one of the best defense in the league during 18-19, 19-20 season. Check the numbers.
Or else they wouldn’t even push the Warriors to Game 7.
We went from this offensive mastermind… to Stephen Silas 🤦🏼♂️
I think it looked pretty, maybe not exotic
man this team was so damn close to taking those fuckers down
That offense was definitely pretty
Its weird when the face matches the voice
Hardest is a beast!
Harden should have won like 2 more MVPs when he was playing with the Rockets
Basketball fans.
My Spurs put on a passing clinic vs Miami in the Finals.
Thanks for attending my TedTalk.
You also didn’t have a dominant 1 on 1 player.
@@PNL1992 and the heat aggressively hedged and trapped instead of switching so ball movement is the counter to that
@@PNL1992
We had Tim Duncan
And timeless basketball to watch forever.
As opposed to unwatchable Houston games...
@@Loris71734
Nothing's perfect.
But it's mostly EFFORT...
Again, Tim played in credible All Star games - not "public practice"...
But as long as they cash cheques and get Twitter mentions/Tiktok shares...
@@darrengordon-hillI love Duncan but by that point you couldn't felt on him in isolation for long stretches
guys like Stephen a smith give mike a bad reputation as a coach and is always trying to slander his name from getting the good coaching jobs. He'd be a better coach for the 6ers
You need to simplify your question like your title. Things aren't that complicated.
Nah that houston era was a funny era of basketball
Isolation offense against elite defense especially in the playoffs will eventually get shut down. That's why the rockets of 18-19 couldn't win the championship. Warriors motion offense is much more difficult to defend as a defense having to chase Steph and Klay around. Dantoni is too stubborn to adapt and make adjustments during the series against the warriors.
Did you watch the video in full?
@@bruh_rick he didnt 🤣
But what he is ignoring is that without the passing the were the most efficient but they couldn't win a chip playing that way because winning at the highest level required the whole team to be at their best and when guys are doing that much watching it's impossible for them all to be in a flow
That's a gibberish narrative. The Rockets were literally a couple 3 pointers made away from winning game 7 in 2018 Western Conference Finals. There's no "right way to play basketball"
@@blacknetsmed yes there is you say a couple of 3's away from winning I say the one guy that system relied so heavily on ran out of gas
+
CP3 going down in that GS series is so unlucky. Who knows if they pull it off with him but they were looking great and things were pointing that way. Who knows how Harden/CP3s legacy would be if they were able to make it to that finals and win it all.
Still not sure what genius decided to move on from CP3 for Russ. Made no sense
E!!
P
ONG IM 1ST😈😈
This 17-18 team was probably the best rockets team in years. 60+ wins and I firmly believe they would’ve made the finals if cp3 was healthy
I hate Zero Pass & 1-Pass Offense. 👎
The point guard should be passing the ball as he is crossing the Halfcourt line.
Which bball handbook did u read that in?
@@MrWillandtk UCONN Huskies legendary head coach Geno Auriemma hates poor ball movement with a passion. 👍 He demands that the point guard knows who they are going to pass the ball to BEFORE THE POINT GUARD CROSSES THE HALFCOURT LINE.
The 1st pass is not a catch & shoot situations. You gotta make the defense expend more energy chasing after 2 or 3 passes.