I loved the use of the 3D replica of the courtyard from Yharnam to show the hidden mechanics in the game, enlightening! Edit: also super pumped for the darkSouls video it's my favourite game, I played it so much i can recreate most of it from memory.
That's not what a negative feedback loop is. Positive feedback loops accelerate away from a point of balance while negative feedback loops apply pressure back toward a point of balance. You describe two different positive feedback loops in opposite directions. Love the video.
Thanks for the heads up boss I understood the concept wrong and miss remembered some research I did. I appreciate the explanation and have pinned it so we can all better understand :) really glad you enjoyed the video too boss
He is not getting it. If you ran out of healing, despite the game regularly giving you more, you are not good enough for the current area. Just go back to a more familiar one and farm easier enemies.
This response from Jack was discussing game design terminology rather than the opinions of how the blood vials were designed. In regards to your opinion on how progression should be structured in bloodborne we can agree to disagree :) I don’t believe forcing players to leave a challenge that they are facing to go back to previous areas is a good idea. It just encourages those player to quit the game (which is always bad). It has nothing to do with the game being challenging because this wasn’t a problem with estus flasks in the souls series and is unique to blood vials which is why I pointed out the flaw in its design. If you don’t agree that is completely fair you’re entitled to your own opinion :) just wanted to clear up my side of things. Have a good day 🕺
Also, I just gotta say about the track, "The Hunter." It's crazy how it works on both sides of the psychological spectrum of predator and prey. As a new player the song is intimidating and overbearing. It makes you panic and lose heart. It makes you feel chased. However when you play as an experienced/confident and aggressive player the song changes and becomes your song. You become the predator bearing down on your prey. The heat and aggressiveness of the music tries to seduce the bestial wrath within you and beckons it to emerge. Every sound every beat is a struggle. The brass is simultaneously incisive, like fangs lacerating flesh and crushing, like jaws breaking bone. The strings and chorus are wild, frantic and wailing. The drums, a relentless pounding heart.
estus was the perfect healing mechanic, bloodborne took a step backwards with blood vials (though it makes more narrative sense). great vid. i subbed 🙂
Being able to run out of Blood Vials is what makes Bloodborne a light survival horror game. Like in Resident Evil where you can softlock yourself, but without actually being softlocked.
Great video as always man, the thing about the blood vials being a negative feedback loop is probably my only real issue with the game, thankfully the estus flasks and the healing gourds from sekiro fix this by being renewed when resting. Bloodborne being a rythm game is completely true in all fromsoft games (most obvious in sekiro) but it is much more subtle in Bloodborne. The editing in this video was also EXTREMELY good, i absolutely love the tiny details you put into damn near every frame. The trigger box is also a really clever thing added by the developers which i did not know about :) probably one of those hidden things that i never would have thought about without this video :) as always gg m8 well done on the video
I think the blood vials system was implemented this way to encourage the player to just fight the enemies on his way to the boss instead of running past them. If you do that you basically never run out. Also, 4/4 isn't in any way special for a human brain. It became normalized as the "standard" counting because it was the default in most european music and we became culturally accustomed to it.
Incredible insights in this! Very well done. I think the blood vial system was created in inspiration of survival horror games. The way i saw it is that if your vials go out, that means youre not prepared for this specific boss/area and should look out for progress elsewhere. A direct in-game example for this is gehrmans dialogue after defeating gascoigne. He says to you: "the moon is close. It will be a long hunt tonight. If the beasts loom large (Vicar Amelia, the largest beast in the main campaign who was for many and for myself one of the biggest challenges in the early game) and threaten to crush your spirits (HP in this game is defined by the will to survive, so he directly speaks about having constantly low HP or in the same sense low blood vials) seek a holy chalice (...) in the valey hamlet (old yharnam)". So he basically tells you, if you struggle at this next area, go and seek this holy chalice. The missing detailed description of where to go to actually find it will result in the player exploring other areas randomly and eventually level up and gather more ressources in the process to then tackle amelia and succeeding. This approach will then hopefully be the go-to option for all upcoming challenges and the player will have an easier time with the game.
What a wonderful insight (haha) into a different view on how bloodvials work :) best comment yet! How do you think changing the system to estus flasks might have affected this flow of the narrative and survival aspect of the game?
@@DesignDelve thank you. I think the survival horror aspect would be greatly weakened with estus instead of vials. with estus, you would not be advised to go explore beyond the main quest beside your own curiosity or getting lost, as you can forcibly beat your way through any story boss with replenished estus by simply trying over and over, making it a question of time when you eventually are gonna proceed. every video game boss can be beaten by one of two things: skill or ressources (like leveling hp so you cant get one shot by that one attack your tries always failed because of). in dark souls, you can eventually become so skilled against an otherwise op boss by simply trying over and over. in bloodborne, you cant without farming. so ressources is the only other way to go. exploring the optional areas is much less scary in dark souls, as your estus cannot go out so you can venture and explore safely without having to take any risks (only losing souls, but you can bone your way back to bonfire if you have too many). in bloodborne however, the unknown becomes much more threatening as you have something to lose when playing uncarefully (you are seeking this place to gather more ressources for that other area you are stuck in, after all), so you proceed with caution, making never before seen enemies even more threatening and thus, scary. i like to compare this system with old school resident evils and their herb system. herbs are limited and there are always rooms in those games with very strong enemies, so you try to skip that part to explore elsewhere, only to come back to it later on when youre ready. I think this system shoots two birds with one bullet. It indirectly advises players to go explore beyond the main quest, resulting in the showcase of the otherwise mostly unseen optional content, while making the unknown (fits the lovecraftian philosophy) scarier than in dark souls. the only problem is, like with everything in bloodborne, that you have to take the game seriously, as it takes you seriously by communicating this not in a direct way to you. if you play it stubbornly like other games with your mind turned off, you will be punished. you shouldnt play it like an action rpg, you should play it like a survival horror.
The blood vials cooperate with drop rates and item placement to prolong your journey through the game. Somewhat like a hunt, you use the resources that you find to jeep going. A player can go through 40+ vials on a good run due to collecting more along the way. The encouragement to farm for them also encourages the theme of bloodlust and insanity. And the best farming spot is in the first area, the one with all the little hints to help you figure out the game
Oh for sure I have no doubt about this 😁 but is encouraging farming on items a good thing? Or is a system like estus flasks better as it keeps the player in the game and focused for longer?
Well brother, astounding work as always. I really hope you get the attention you deserve. Now about the blood vial topic. I believe it's the best healing system they have implemented in their games. Let me explain. It's hardcore, but fair. You need to be and play better if you want more vials. If you refuse to play like the game wants you to and are reckless, you'll pay the price. It's not forgiving as dark souls where it doesn't matter because you get infinite healing items. Also it adds to the concept of fear and panic. You are more stressed while playing because you know you have limited healing. Excellent design that fits the game's theme. Also to be fair once you learn the game a bit, you'll never run out and you'll have more than enough currency to buy them too. It's more simple and straightforward because you don't have to level up your healing abilities like estus and undead bone shards. It's like "here's 20 mate and good luck." Finally it plays better in pvp. Someone who invades or gets invaded will have to think twice before spamming healing, if they are low on resources.
Thank you for the kind words on the video boss 😁 and for sure, I completely understand your point of view on the vial design but I believe that the estus flasks system keeps all the pros you have mentioned while also keeping everyone on the same playing field and not only punishing it’s weakest players. But there are pros and cons for both 😁 what are your opinions on Bloodvials in contrast to estus flasks or healing gourds?
@@DesignDelve Well I believe Bloodborne combined the best of both worlds. What I mean by that is that it took the finite healing from Demon's Souls but set a limit to it like Dark Souls with a set number of vials. Seems pretty balanced to me. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like anything being hard just for the sake of it or artificial difficulty. But having your estus replenish everytime you rest, seems a bit easy to me and there is a lack of risk when healing. It always seemed a bit odd that everything is hard and has to be earned in Dark Souls but the estus is infinite. It's the same concept with the backstab. In DS you just strafe and press R1 and boom. But in Bloodborne you have to time your charge attack, connect the hit and then you can backstab. It takes more skill to pull off.
Great Episode my dude! holy shit the way you describe Bloodborne as a rhythm game was almost poetic. I can see you have put a lot of effort into this episode and it shows. PS. Nice white box of Yharnham :P
Your use of sound and visuals really made this video for me. The little things like your voice becoming clearer, coming from the "Tv" perspective at the beginning of the video; or the 3D courtyard environment with which you illustrated the use of a trigger volume really made this analysis an interesting watch. I'll definitely be waiting for more in the future :)
Thank you so much Lehmo Nade 😁 you spotting these details makes it allll worth it! I’ve got big things coming up in the near future so keep your eyes pealed 👀
9:26 i'm not an expert at all, but this blood vial system thing made every right move i make feel more rewarding. It just feels good when you defeat a boss and didn't end up spending the majority of your vials because you got good. but it didn't take a lot of time for me to realize that it's probably a good idea to spend all of my blood echoes on anything before leaving the hunter's dream, so naturally, it seemed that spending whatever is left on blood vials is the best investment; and i ended up going to ng+ with hundreds of vials in my storage so i never had to worry about grinding for them anymore
I can completely see your side of it and how it would be a positive for your experience 😁 what do you think of blood vials in comparison to estus flasks? What’s better in your opinion?
I thought I was crazy thinking that Ludwig's boss fight theme song was guiding me in the fight and the sword was the wand to the valts. Turns out I wasn't.
@@DesignDelve Plenty of content creators, of any kind really, feel the same way about their work. In my eyes, this is a great video with a unique take on the game and some pretty enlightening analysis. I can't wait to see you have a go at the Dark Souls trilogy. Thank you for the awesome content
Nico you seem like a hero 👌 you should come join the discord so we can talk about my dark souls videos when I start making them. Regardless if you join or not thank you for the kind words :) these comments keep me going
I had so much I wanted to say but I had to cut a lot of it out. And the video didn’t turn out how it was in my head. Regardless I hope you enjoyed it :)
I liked how the bloodvials added some extra pressure in boss fights and if i ever ran out then that told me that i either wasn't ready for that boss or just not good enough the first time i got to Gerham i died so much that i was running low on vials so i took a step back and did some side stuff i missed and when i got back i beat him first try
The Anatomy of Sekiro episode is out now! and if you enjoy these videos and want to communicate with me directly / be involved with future streams and behind the scenes filming come and join the discord : discord.gg/B9t7YCF
I got to the "Negative Feedback Loop" bit and how you say it doesn't belong in a game like this, and I have to say I disagree strongly. There are quite a few times where, in Bloodborne and other single player games, I've run low on supplies and would get my ass thoroughly kicked (especially if I spammed said supplies). What happens when you run out of those supplies? Two things: 1. You farm for more. You learn quickly there are alot of easy locations that just have super manageable enemies, which net both vials and echos to get more vials. This is possibly the easiest player solution to take, but also the most tedious, which more often than not forces the player to- 2. Get Gud. The most difficult solution to reach, but by far the most effective one. As meme-able as it is, being pushed into a corner where resources are no longer helping tends to make even terrible players learn to step up, consider WHY they're getting their ass handed to them so much, and finally learn how to fix it. Sometimes, a player simply NEEDS to go into a "negative feedback loop" in order to learn that it isn't working, and need to break the loop and put on some grown up pants. The vials in Bloodborne are like an eraser. They erase the mistakes. Of course, if you're constantly erasing mistakes, you'll run out of the eraser, but that's not the fault of the eraser, and the user will figure that out eventually.
@@1Synner The discord invite is invalid. That said, your choreography and production quality here are fantastic. I'm definitely looking forward to similar videos on Dark Souls, especially the first one.
I play drums and play with a few bands that use varying time signatures and as a HUGE fan of Bloodborne I've never put this together as far as the combat rhythm syncing with the music! You've opened up a deeper level of ways I can appreciate this wonderful game (which I consider my all-time favorite). Excellent explanation of time signature as well.
Means a lot to me that someone as talented as you liked the way I explained things 😁 I tried to make it understandable for people completely fresh to the idea! Thanks again Jordan I really hope you enjoyed the episode!
@@DesignDelve I've always had a contentious relationship with 5/4 and you've put into words why Blood-starved Beast always gives me a rough go. 😂 made a subscriber out of me. Keep up the good work!
When it comes to blood vials I kind of half agree with you. I’ve always viewed them as a limiter on how much you can bash your head against a wall before the game forces you to stop, and take a break. Having your healing times be a non renewing makes it so that if you’re really really struggling it’ll force you to go back to easier areas to take a break giving you time to relax and rethink how to go at your current challenge. This is also further instilled because one of the easiest places to farm for blood vials is the early game. That said the problem is you need to get a sizable distance away from the early game (I’d say getting past cathedral ward) before this idea can be utilized which means you have the already horrible barrier to entry being made more difficult by an design choice that’s suppose to help you.
Blood vials are an incentive to practice parrying. The two enemies that drop large amounts are also the two different parries, the giant has a long slow wind up that you wiff by shooting to early, the werewolves are the opposite, in that you wiff to late. The other two enemies that drop them commonly are the executioner enemy and giant pig, both are in areas surrounded by groups, and teach you to dodge into attacks
@@DesignDelve Estus is something I'm mixed on, bloodvials work really well but the issue I have is that they're ambiguous as to how much you'll heal. Obviously after a while you can intuit that feeling, but I think they're necessary to make the game different from dark souls. Furthermore every game has to have a low point, and from realized blood vials were their low point and worked as much around that as they could.
Oh for sure, even as a low point it’s not even that bad. I had to look at it from a design perspective, which involves play from its best and worst players. It’s one of the only negatives I could intuit. It’s a fantastically designed game and I personally had no problems with the bloodvial system, but I knew as a designer that many others would and it being so easy to solve I saw it as a flaw.
On my first playthrough I hated the blood vial system, but the longer I played the game, the more I began to appreciate it. This is because it made it worthwhile to actually fight enemies. In Dark Souls, there is almost no reason not to just run past enemies for items and to get to the bosses, since they don't really drop anything that makes fighting them worth it. However in Bloodborne, huntsmen, the most common enemy type that appear in most areas, have a high chance to drop blood vials, the very thing that the player constantly feels like they are running out of. While it is a very flawed way of making fighting random enemies worthwhile, and I did almost give up on the game multiple times on my first playthrough after running out of blood vials during bosses, I can appreciate the effort to make combat outside of boss fights worthwhile.
The thing about the blood vials, it honestly can be a problem, but I think it fits Bloodborne. It makes you fight harder and better, why heal when you can rally and beat the shit out of something that keeps beating you
Oh for sure the rally system is genius :D but this system would work the same with an estus system and would remove the problem of punish only it’s weakest players. What do you think boss?
Great Video M8, i love it when you let yourself talk about sound design as well as game design. Sadly i haven't played Bloodborn but i can see most things you've talked about. But especially the last part about insight was interesting. As a tabletop player for Call of Cthulhu, it is a somewhat terrifying that sometimes you might just need one occurrence to start that journey into the darkness :D Thank you very much M8
@@DesignDelve Well there are somewhat two depictions that would correspond to the madness in Bloodborn. Each RPG-Character has a Sanity stat which is between 0-99, the lower it is the closer you are to madness. Sanity gets lowered each time you, as a player, encounter some horror element of the game. And there is the stat which is somewhat like the insight, ergo Cthulhu Mythos, starting at 0% and raised for different knowledge acquired by the Character about the mythos. Therefore in the rpg, most of the time when someone learns about creatures of the mythos, they learn but at the cost of getting closer to insanity.
@@DesignDelve Insanity (sanity 0) is basically loss of character. But with each loss of sanity there is a chance that you are afflicted by other conditions like a phobia or obsessive-compulsive disorder. So there is basically a long way, where it can impact a character/player, cause most players start of with 40 to 90 Sanity and often lose smaller amounts due to some horror/cthulhu element.
Now I must say that Blood borne is infact a good game but it would be even better as a JRPG, you could play as Johnny Blood in the grand city of south detroit on a quest to unleash the beast as you 5 hit combo your way towards the future that is tomorrow, and then upon the tomorrow you could look at the works of great violence you have wrought and smile for it is good. the only flaw in this inky story that you'll slither across as the tendrils of the arcane knowledge burrows into yourself as the unknowable familiarity of the big C man will becken you hither into his impossibly but instantly brandable "mystery tentacles" but alas that's enough about how the unknowable will always be best mates of Brandon Borne the king of all design choices. what I really think needs to be said is that bloodborne has a gothic style to show the absolute depth of of how the game has a nice victorian aesthetic to it. oh no I've gone MAD :'(
Knew I was gonna chill on YT after a rough day at work, however I didn't know my new favourite episode of "The Anatomy of _____" was gonna be waiting, excellent work as always dude, and loved learning some more insights on one of my favourite games, keep it up boss!
I think nioh’s healing system fixed the blood vial issue. It’s pretty much the same as vials except a player is given a base amount every time they die or rest at the games bonfire equivalent. This way struggling players will always have enough healing to get through even without grinding for a huge supply, but more experienced players can explore more and go longer without resting. This would work especially well for bloodborne as better players who accumulate more vials can explore longer without going back to the hunters dream and dealing with two long loading screens, motivating them to deal with the risk of losing even more echoes, but new players are punished with being forced into the hub to restock (much less severe then grinding) which also makes it less likely for them to deal with the frustration of losing a large amount of echoes they may need to get through.
i also immediately noticed that the blood vials system had the flaw of needing to farm in some instances and the fact that probably if you finish the blood vials it means that you are already struggling and possibly you died and lost the echoes so you can't even level up or buy blood vials and consumables. It sometimes can ruin a bit the pacing of the game.
@@DesignDelve Nope sorry, "double H" stands for "Hip Hop", pretty basic if you ask me, i think i'll begin saying it is a reference to beyond good and evil 😂.
I played through all of bloodbourne without ever parrying a single attack. Now that I see how hard they tried to teach me how to parry I feel kind of bad
I've heard lots of complaints about having to farm blood vials. At first I sympathized but upon closer inspection.. That's the survival horror aspect of this game. That's all there is to it. Great video mate, well done. Cheers.
I like to think that the healing system turned out as it is because the chalice dungeons were meant to break the vicious cycle. Once stuck on the same boss for hours (totally not me against Laurence) I think you are meant to do a random dungeon or two to obtain vials/echoes to buy them. Too bad most people find navigating the same two rooms boring
The blood vial thing I agree with, however I found they dropped often enough / were corpse drops that i never ran out until the defiled chalice dungeon bosses lol
Oh for sure I completely agree :) it’s only a problem for weaker players but that’s still a problem. What did you think of blood vials in comparison to estus flasks or healing gourds?
@@DesignDelvethis video came up in my recommended, decided to give it a watch. Got to the healing vial bs part and went to comment but turns out I already did lol. Good video homie enjoyed it again !
Welp i was supposed to return at Halloween for Resident Evil game videos. But can't resist my favorite action horror game! One point that I notice every Bloodborne video misses is the music. This game's music is on another level.
Absolutely fantastic video J, one of your best yet! As someone who ragequit Bloodborne at Cleric Beast years ago, I completely agree with the negative feedback loop segment, because I just couldn't get anywhere because I never had blood vials, and when I had like 2 of them per try at the boss it just pissed me off and made me not want to play. Although I don't think negative feedback loops are always a bad thing depending on how they're implemented, with the best way to use them is to teach the player something, which leads to them having a deeper understanding of the mechanics the game is trying to teach them. Also when you talked about how the game guides you along, you were spot on because that's the exact way I went when I played lmao.
Thank you so much TwiggyJack 😁 means a lot to me! If you know of aware you could share it it would help me a bunch 🕺 keep being able legend. Sekiro video coming out in 2 weeks!!
@@DesignDelve So Amnesia has an entire game mechanic around 'sanity' as a resource, where being in the dark or even looking at monsters triggers a hit to sanity which causes hallucinations, loss of control, and even death (game end). SH2 is more about imagery with set pieces, map design, and character metaphor to cleverly weave this theme of madness into the plot via loss and guilt from the maiin character's experiencs. Both certainly worth a look, would love to hear your analysis if either strike you.
I watched a video or read somewhere about the blood vials serving a narrative purpose, forcing you to go to Old Yharnam to hunt like the hunters before you.
I get your point on Bloodvlals, but I personally never had any problems with it. The Bloodvials I got just by normally exploring central Yharnam were enough to survive for a few hours, but I also spend left over blood echoes to buy more. Litetally never ran out of Bloodvials by doing this. To me it feels more like the game teaches the player to be more careful during exploration and save the bloodvials for bosses this way. I mean strategy has always been a important part in these games and this is one way to teach players not to just attack head on. The thing is Dark Souls with shields and Estus almost teaches the opposite imo. Estus is an infinite resource and shields actively encourage just tanking hits instead of dodging. Just like the sniper in central Yharnam, guiding the player to a second path around the enemy horde, the simple fear of losing healing items also encourages looking for ways to get around or behind enemies. Which also leads to the player discovering secret items and areas. Atleast that's what I believe the game theached me to do.
A very unique look at the system thank you :) I didn’t mean to imply they were a mistake, I have no doubt the developers meant for it to be this way. Why do you think of vials in comparison to estus flasks from the souls series? I’d love to hear your side of it :D
Just found your channel through this video and I'm so God damn impressed by the quality of your content especially considering the lower than expected sub count. Subbed and looking forward to new content.
Great video overall, Bloodborne is definitely my favourite game ever made so it’s always nice to see it receiving some attention even after 6 years. In regards to the blood vial negative feedback loop discussion I used to dislike the system as obviously it’s inconvenient but I feel like it fits the theme far too well for it to be removed. Forcing the player to really hunt the beasts and bringing you down to their level, desperately killing for blood to fuel your rampage is certainly pretty bestial. I also feel like the diminishing healing resource forces you to play more aggressively and places more emphasis on each individual attempt of a boss.
I actually never had issue with blood vials. Once I got to Cainhurst Castle area I farmed those mosquito bloodsuckers and bought as many as I could hold took about an hour.
@@DesignDelve I've beaten them all. I absolutely love these games. BB is by FAR my favorite. I think they both work. Demon Souls grass was the only thing I really didn't enjoy bc there many different types. So farming IMO became tedious. Maybe its bc I prefer the BB style of fighting than the DS style. But Blood vials only had 1 type to farm for. They were cheap once you get to Cainhurst. Bc the enemies give so many blood echoes plus you can farm for blood chunks on the gargoyle enemies
Very true, I agree with everything you’re saying and I had a similar experience too. In the video I tried to look at it from the perspective of bloodbornes worst players and imo estus is more forgiving.
Honestly I never really had a problem with running out of blood vials and if I did going back and farming while annoying I hate farming did collect me more blood money to make me stronger It’s a good loop it just needs to be tweaked/changed so it’s not so repetitive
I may be a little late to the party, but the part about blood vials made ma write this message. While I agree with most of what you have said, I actually find blood vials to be a teaching method. Yes, you run out of them because you struggle and make mistakes, but you struggle and make mistakes because you still have some fundamental things to learn. After being stuck on Shadows of Yharnm because I did not find the summon signs and I lost all my vials, I had to go and farm for them. Where does the game invite your to farm for vials at this point in the game? It's either Central Yharnam or Forbidden Woods. These two areas contain similar entry-level enemies and level designs that are supposed to teach you the ropes of the game, So, as you farm, you also get to understand things better. Or at least that's how it was for me. So, although it may seem like a negative feedback loop, From made it so that it also teaches you what you may have missed the first time you tried to make your way through these areas dodge-spamming, running, and mashing R1.
At first I thought that the bloodviles were a pain in the ass but it indirectly made me get used to parrying and then master it by going back to yharnum especially by parrying and visceral attacking the mobs but especially the more menacing enemies such as the werewolves the executioner and the brick trolls because they drop more vials and In turn it made me a master at the mechanic really sharpening my skills and becoming exponentially better at the game as I could not utilize all of the mechanics making me a powerhouse so in the end they worked to my advantage greatly
Really nice to hear how it actually made a positive impact to your gameplay 😁 thank you Viktor! What do you think of bloodvials in comparison to Estus Flasks?
The Blood Vial system is both the best and worst aspect of the gameplay loop in Bloodborne. It's like a survival horror healing item where you are unsure when to use it because it may be your last healing item which makes me love it but it absolutely creates the frustration when you're low and you feel so close to beating the boss. The middle ground i could think of is giving the player 2 vials whenever they die to a boss if they're out. Keep the player in and learning but it might cheapen the vials so it's a very tricky balance so it might ruin bloodborne for some.
You’re in luck Aibon 😁 working on the series as we speak and The Anatomy of Sekiro is coming out in a week! Stay tuned and thank you for the kind words I really hope you enjoyed this video 💕
@@DesignDelve Hell yeah! Really looking forward to it. I've just discovered this channel, it was a nice surprise. I'm specially interested in level design , and in this video you did a great introduction on how carefully is crafted. It can be a very complicated topic, and just with the Central Yharnam area you could spend 2 hours covering every design structure, divergent and convergent paths, Visual landmarks and navigation, telegraphing upcoming events, narrative in the environment/enemy design... Anyway, Congrats again for your work. I'll be watching more of your videos in the meantime :)
Great vid mate! Though I'm not a fan of these types of games, I still love the way you pull it apart and show how they work and the art and design behind them. I've learnt a bit from this and alot from your Hollow Knight vid about how to let the player figure out what to do, rather then just outright show them. Very helpful indead for my own work!
i understand why the blood vials were controversial for people that came from dark souls -- bloodborne was my first soulsborne game and i personally had no issue with them being consumable. imo it encourages you to go back to previous areas and polish up your technique via grinding through enemies you've already defeated, which also helps you nudge your level up. that and the fact that i only actually ran out of vials a handful of times. shoutout to ludwig who cleaned me out several times over lmao.
@@DesignDelveno problem, thanks for a great video, man! i really enjoyed your little nightmares one too and would love to see a dark souls analysis in future :D
Awwww awesome Astroturf Punk 😁 so glad you’re enjoying the content and on the topic of Fromsoft videos… my next episode is The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 it’ll be out in 2 weeks! See you then boss 😁
I honestly didn't mind the blood vial system. Even if I was walled by a boss and had to stop to farm them or bullets. I used it as a refresh point of sorts, being forced away from the fight helped me reflect on the fight and what I needed to do better or stop doing. I understand not everyone thinks this way while playing games and do not like the blood vial system and that's ok too.
I can completely see your side of it but you also nailed it with your last statement there Justin :) the way I described it being negative was referring to only bloodbornes most struggling players. I’m keen to hear what you think of bloodvials in comparison to estus flasks?
@@DesignDelve I like the Estus Flask system in the later portion of the game after I've been able to level it up. Early game I feel like I'm using more flasks because they heal less. Its still balanced because I always have them no matter how many times I die though. I think the blood vial system makes individual mistakes less punishing. If you have one tricky fight that uses your vials up, you can still get more without resetting, the mob may have even dropped some. With the flasks you are faced with the decision of "do I push on and hope theres a new bonfire soon, or run back and hopefully do better next time" more often. Both have advantages and disadvantages so its really personal preference, my play style just prefers vials.
Thank you Alvaro 😁 I have lots of other episodes I’ve made and I’d love to hear your thoughts on the topics I’ve covered in those :) you seem like a legend m8 👌
I didn't think the blood vials were a big deal. The mildest of inconveniences, but still inconvenient. I was generally sitting on a ton of blood echoes and I was proficient enough not to die a lot. The except was the DLC. I think I had to farm blood vials for that, which, like I said, was inconvenient. I guess another thing was I always had blood vials in the back of my mind since I learned in the very beginning they were finite. So I'd be conservative if I could with their use, and if I knew an enemy was going to drop a blood vial or two, I may have been more inclined to ensure I got their drops on my way back to the boss.
I've always believed that in video games, punishment should be short term, whereas rewards should be long term. That way, the player feels good while being taught the systems properly
@@DesignDelve I think it really makes the gane suffer. Bloodborne was the very first game I played, and coming to grips with the controls while having to farm for blood vials is just the absolute worst I had to do. On repeat playthroughs, when I get stuck at a boss in the DLC makes farming tedious instead of painful so it's worse no matter what level you're at. I love this game so much, but damn did the vials really bring it down.
That’s really interesting to hear from someone so new to games. This is a wonderful insight! Have you played any other fromsoftware games? I would love to hear your opinions on those 😁
@@DesignDelve at this point, I've made my way through Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro, and I'm working my way through Dark Souls. I honestly find these games incredible. The world of the first is a marvel, if a bit too easy to get lost in. The pacing of the 3rd is something I've found is lovely to enjoy, especially in The Ringed City DLC, but I think it needed more build diversity. I think Sekiro might have the tightest gameplay out of the ones I've played for me personally, but it lacks in replay valie because of the inability to customize the Wolf. I think the strongest aspect of all of Fromsoftware's games is their ability to make the player understand an entirely metaphorical story (overcoming adversity) only through gameplay and evironment. I have to ask, how many have you played, and what are your favourite parts about them?
Wonderful :) it’s so nice to hear a passionate souls player explain their joys of the games designs. I personally have played and completed all of them multiple times :) my opinions on them vary from game to game but the next episode I’m going to be working on is The Anatomy of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. So keep an eye out for that boss because you might see how closely our opinions line up 👀
Well you’re in luck boss 👀 the next video I am working on is The Anatomy of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. Stay tuned 📺 p.s I hope you enjoyed the video dude :)
@@DesignDelve I enjoyed it very much. I am always amazed how the algorithm constantly finds new content creators, and it's usually thanks to their Soulsborne series essays.
Hoy m8! Great vid it keeps getting better! I didn’t played the game, but wanted to talk about the vials thing. In the way they designed this system, don’t you think they saw the vials more as an exploration help than a mandatory item on boss fights? The fact that you keep repeating a boss fight should supposedly lead you to a “perfect understanding” of the boss mechanics and attacks, and would mean that IN THEORY you dont need to heal. And that’s in opposition with exploration, where you face unpredictable dangers and ennemies, which also seem to reward you those vials. I don’t know if it makes sense but maybe they made this system with that idea in mind. What do you think about it? :)
I’m glad you enjoyed the video boss 😁 and in regards to the alternate take on the design of the vials I can see where you’re coming from I just don’t think the positives of an exploration aid out way the negatives of having to farm for items, once you have ran out of vials the one place you most players will go to the easiest area (central yharnam again) and farm vials that way for the path of least resistance so in essence it can even hinder exploration. But I do like the idea 👌 have you seen this form of healing in any other games?
@@DesignDelve Hmm with estus flasks i felt like i had to strategize a little more. With the limited number it really hurt if you made silly mistakes. But I guess BB has 20 flasks and DS has 13? or 15? i can't quite remember.. btw big fan of your work :)
The problem with blood vials could have been solved through expanding a poorly used game mechanic : the stump messengers. The little guys are hanging around everywhere, yet they have almost no gameplay role except messaging and death stones. Their stump in the hunter's dream should have had more utility, like accepting large offerings of echoes or actual vials so the messengers bring you, say 5 or 10 vials on respawn everytime you run out... It would make the game far more palatable without diluting the game logic and cut the need for farming. Also, the inventory items should all be infinite in number, but limited in use, like once you acquire the shaman bone blade, there should be an infinite number in the stockpile back in the dream, and 3 use per try like it is now
This video is delightfully crafted. How did you do the 3D model of the maps? To answer your question: blood borne is the one and only soulslike game that I managed to play past the first encounters. I even finished it! I definitely did struggle with the potion issue and I agree that it sorta breaks the good flow of the game. On the other hand I kept farming towards the end cause it got way too difficult for me so I was already doing that . Good luck with your future videos !
I crafted the 3D models with a close friend of mine we are both game developers :) and it’s wonderful to get your insight on your experience of the game! What do you think of the other souls like games? And thank you for the good luck I hope you’re enjoying them Arturo :D
@@DesignDelve As an experienced videogamer, but first timer in any souls like, I always struggled. Lost my will after the first encounters. No learning curve. I found bloodborne different in that sense. Still extremely hard, but gave me the chance to get that rythm right. Keep up your amazing quality mate.
Loved the video! Instant sub! Although I honestly don’t think the boss attack animations are literally synced to the beat and time signature of the music. It is true that the tempo and feel of Gascoigne boss music matches the tempo and feel of the fight. But I think it’s a bit of a stretch to claim that the attacke are actually synced to the music. I’d love to be proven wrong tho :) I’ve platinumed Bloodborne and I’m a trained musician so I should be able to notice this kind of a thing but to me it’s not there. Gascoigne’s attacks are rhythmically all over the place from the perspective of the soundtrack.
Really glad you enjoyed the video Mikko :D and thanks for the sub! I’m actually going to be going in depth into this music topic in a future video so stay tuned for that!
@@DesignDelve not better, but as far as rhythm goes, Sekiro is a game that literally teaches you a parry system to become advanced. Bloodborne is still a hack n' slash. (My opinion). Both amazing games in their own way. I lean a tad bit more to Sekiro, though. I beat Bloodborne 3x, Platinumed and did the old hunters 100%, Sekiro is my proudest Platinum lol
This was a very interesting watch!!!! I’m very interested in watching a series analyzing the design philosophy of the Dark Souls games. I think it would be pretty interesting to look at how the design choices have changed between the games.
@@DesignDelve I am by no means an expert on game design, but some possibly interesting topics could be the healing mechanics of the 3 souls games, the shift from branching inter-connected levels in Dark Souls 1 to the more intra-connected levels of Dark Souls 3, how the games invisibly teach players how to play and where to go similarly to what you discussed in this video, and how and why Dark Souls combat works best with 1 on 1 encounters. I’m a really big fan of FromSoftware’s souls games (from Demon’s Souls to Sekiro) and I would like to think I know quite a bit about these games as they are very special to me.
I think the vial mechanic has to be discussed in terms of the literary themes of the game. In the fiction, Yharnam’s blood was an addictive substance that transforms those who take it into beasts-creatures of instinct-in contrast to the Great Ones who are above humanity in the classic Lovecraftian style. The vials’ limited capacity forces you to engage with that theme, because when you run out, you are hampered; withdrawal! And then, like an animal, you have to return to safer hunting grounds to eat your fill; for many players this will be Central Yharnam because it’s what they first knew, like a cradle you cower in by instinct.
Wonderful insight here (haha 🥴) I can completely see this side of it. From a narrative standpoint the bloodvial mechanic is complimentary but from a gameplay perspective it can be a burden for bloodborne’s weakest players. What do you think personally should take president in design, narrative justification or play experience? I’d love to hear your side on this EndyHawk 😁
@@DesignDelve I think both should work in synchrony; ludonarrative resonance! I agree this (the vial mechanic) can be a hamper on fresh players; I think a lot of Souls-players forget about that first playthrough, and get a bit up their own butt about the "git gud" stuff. I see two remedies that the game provides though. Firstly, the Bath Messenger shop sells vials for cheap, and one can either forgo grinding for vials by purchasing them with excess echoes after upgrades, or double down on grinding by converting the vial grind Blood Echoes into more vials! Second, what's unique about From games is the communal aspect; both the immediate online interactions of summons and invasions, but also the detective work that goes into finding secret bosses and levels (Painted World, anyone?) and piecing together the narrative. In this case, I think turning to both is beneficial for new players; summons (both NPC and online) can help punch through a sticking point, and though I'd never suggest that turning to an out-of-game resource is an ideal solution, in this case it's likely that a player will stumble upon some rabbit hole they missed earlier, go back and discover a hidden weapon, new armor, or optional level that they can explore that would be a lower level, and offer more opportunity for advancement!
Again, wonderful reply boss 👌 I can see a lot of the positives you’re pointing out here. What do you think of blood vials in comparison to Estus Flasks? What has a cleaner design principle?
@@DesignDelve "Cleaner"? I'd say Estus since the full refill on rest/death is simpler to grasp, but BB's more interesting with the Rally and Vials working together. I think that they play up their respective series' focus; Estus is slow but potent, reflecting patient defense and opportunistic rhythm. Bloodborne is quick and locked at 40%, meaning that you have to rely more on Rally to offset this, favoring hyperaggression and pulse-pounding snap decisions (unless you're doing an arcane build with the gloves and just....unloading magic missiles at poor Amygdala >.>). Also with Estus as with Vials, we get some cool story resonance, with the lighting of the bonfires and their enrichment serving a ritual function, a literal carrying of the torch from shrine to god. Thanks for the fun conversation! I'm on hold right now, and this is making it go quicker! =P
No, thank you! Wonderful to talk to someone with such a fresh look on healing in the soulsborne series :) and so well put too! You should make some videos boss 👀
Thank you Vallen Vega :) I really hope you enjoy the videos I’m making and this sort of comment really keeps me going thank you! We are growing slowly but surely and if you know of anywhere you could share my videos to help out I’d be eternally grateful :D also I’d love to hear what you think of my other videos boss :D
I love the blood vial system. The reason I like it is because I love getting punished for my mistakes. If i did something wrong and used too many blood vials i deserve to be punished. Farming vials is very easy if you farm enemies that drop them and at the same time use the blood echoes you get from them to buy more as well. The only problem I have with this is that the load times in Bloodborne is TERRIBLE and you often have to reload an area multiple times if you want to stock up with a lot of vials. This means you have to spend many minutes behind loading screens before you're ready to push forward and progress again. TLDR; The blood vial system is great but the load times makes it terrible.
Great video, this channel is great and very underrated, however I disagree with you on your stance on blood vials, when I first played bloodborne I was turned off by the fact I had to buy and scavenge for my own healing items especially compared to the unlimited estus of the Dark Souls series, however when I got into the game more I realised just how much it added to the atmosphere of the game, Bloodborne's world is not kind, it's overrun with viscous foes and tough as nails bosses, the same could be said about Dark Souls yes but in that game you're the chosen undead with a connection to the bonfire, it makes sense why health wouldn't have to be sought of by the player in that game, also Dark Souls does not allow you to regain health shortly after being hit and its combat system is harder to master than the Bloodborne combat system in my opinion anyway, so I think estus fit that game perfectly. You also mention that in Bloodborne having to get your own healing items may make it so that you can't keep trying and have to interrupt your attempt at a boss by having to go get blood vials every few attempts, however I would have to disagree, you can still try a boss without any healing items, in fact not having any healing items may just give you time to experiment and learn a bosses attacks so that you can come back with healing items, defeat the boss and feel like a badass. I don't think Bloodborne's, blood vial system is better or worse than the Dark Souls estus flasks, I think both approaches suited both games and neither one is better in my opinion. If I got anything wrong about your opinion then I'm sorry and feel free to correct me, thanks for reading to the end, this is an amazing video and channel, have a great day.
Really glad you enjoyed the video boss and thank you for the kind words on it :) I can actually completely see your side of bloodvials boss I really can, I actually felt the same way on my first play through but in the video I tried to look at it from a new player experience. I think both sides are valid depending on the player :)
Yes, I would love a Dark Souls analysis! I prefer Estus system of healing over the Blood Vials. It's one of the reasons why I didn't finish Bloodborne, the farming was too irritating, whereas in Dark Souls I get my Estus refilled at the cozy bonfire. Btw your "fine wine" joke didn't look like you were drinking real wine. Or was it? :D
Production value and only 3k subs? Boi you better get into it the algorithm has chosen Although this title I was looking more for the biology of bloodborne creatures😅
bloodvials is not as inherently negative as of a feedback loop as the user. rather then going and spamming them away. or spending resources to buy more. people are meant to push forward, and try to do more without using them at all. not because they have 0 but because they learn to stay at 20, and practice dodging useless fights of all proportions. worse case scenario. you can go farm bloodechos and vials to power up at your discretion.
Like I mentioned in the episode it’s only a huge problem for new or struggling players :) what are your opinions on bloodvials in comparison to estus flasks?
Not all bosses utilise this feature :) and the removal of it can make certain bosses subconsciously harder for some people. What bosses did you struggle with most on your first play through?
@@DesignDelve oh, I see. Because I never really thought of it as a rhythm game even after 4 playthroughs. My first struggle was with Father Gasoline, for sure like most people. BB is my first Fromsoft game and my favourite so far!
@@DesignDelve oh, yes. The only thing left for me is Sekiro and looking forward to Elden Ring! Oh, and great content! Glad to see Bloodborne stuff in 2021!
I am actually currently filming my next episode as we speak… which is The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 keep your eyes peeled dude! And thank you for the kind words on the content 😁
the limited-quantity, dropped-item blood vial system is overly punishing to new players and encourages vial farming, which might theoretically help some struggling players to get a better grip on the basics of combat (especially in the unlikely event that this sends a player looking into the chalices), but runs the risk of turning away players who would enjoy the game more without the (actually unnecessary) grind. for seasoned players, vials become a non-issue
I can completely see this boss :) the only reason I mentioned it was for the most vulnerable players. I personally didn’t have an issue with them myself as I’ve been playing souls games for years but I needed to mention it because it is an issue for some. Thanks for your input boss I hope you enjoyed the episode :)
@@DesignDelve absolutely! I’d love to see sone DS3 as well. I do love those games for sure, and your analysis covers topics I’ve not heared other youtubers talk about (the sourceless “guiding” light, the “trigger boxes” etc.). Are you actually a game design professor? 😄
Yes I am actually a professor, I teach at a university in England 😁 and I also plan to cover ALL fromsoft games so I hope you can stick around for more in the future! Thanks for your kind words Pavel they mean a lot to me!
It’s wonderful to see this kind of technical design be used in such modern GameStop communication between the musical composition and animation teams is usually quite sparse, kept separate from each other and this type of design takes dedication. Really hope you enjoyed this one Airra :)
I’ve read somewhere that the Dancers’ moveset follows the music track. To beat her, you must “dance” with her. Not sure it’s true but interesting if it is.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
definitely want anatomy of dark souls series!!
Gunna make it just for you Qbious r 👌 stay tuned!
I loved the use of the 3D replica of the courtyard from Yharnam to show the hidden mechanics in the game, enlightening!
Edit: also super pumped for the darkSouls video it's my favourite game, I played it so much i can recreate most of it from memory.
You’re the first person to mention this 👌 really happy you liked it
That's not what a negative feedback loop is. Positive feedback loops accelerate away from a point of balance while negative feedback loops apply pressure back toward a point of balance. You describe two different positive feedback loops in opposite directions. Love the video.
Thanks for the heads up boss I understood the concept wrong and miss remembered some research I did. I appreciate the explanation and have pinned it so we can all better understand :) really glad you enjoyed the video too boss
@@DesignDelve The correct term here would be a vicious cycle
Perfect m8 👌
He is not getting it. If you ran out of healing, despite the game regularly giving you more, you are not good enough for the current area. Just go back to a more familiar one and farm easier enemies.
This response from Jack was discussing game design terminology rather than the opinions of how the blood vials were designed. In regards to your opinion on how progression should be structured in bloodborne we can agree to disagree :) I don’t believe forcing players to leave a challenge that they are facing to go back to previous areas is a good idea. It just encourages those player to quit the game (which is always bad). It has nothing to do with the game being challenging because this wasn’t a problem with estus flasks in the souls series and is unique to blood vials which is why I pointed out the flaw in its design. If you don’t agree that is completely fair you’re entitled to your own opinion :) just wanted to clear up my side of things. Have a good day 🕺
Also, I just gotta say about the track, "The Hunter." It's crazy how it works on both sides of the psychological spectrum of predator and prey.
As a new player the song is intimidating and overbearing. It makes you panic and lose heart. It makes you feel chased.
However when you play as an experienced/confident and aggressive player the song changes and becomes your song. You become the predator bearing down on your prey. The heat and aggressiveness of the music tries to seduce the bestial wrath within you and beckons it to emerge.
Every sound every beat is a struggle. The brass is simultaneously incisive, like fangs lacerating flesh and crushing, like jaws breaking bone. The strings and chorus are wild, frantic and wailing. The drums, a relentless pounding heart.
Completely agree man 👌
estus was the perfect healing mechanic, bloodborne took a step backwards with blood vials (though it makes more narrative sense). great vid. i subbed 🙂
I can completely agree bro 👌 thanks for the kind words about the video and cheers for the sub boss I won’t let you down 🕺
Being able to run out of Blood Vials is what makes Bloodborne a light survival horror game. Like in Resident Evil where you can softlock yourself, but without actually being softlocked.
Great video as always man, the thing about the blood vials being a negative feedback loop is probably my only real issue with the game, thankfully the estus flasks and the healing gourds from sekiro fix this by being renewed when resting.
Bloodborne being a rythm game is completely true in all fromsoft games (most obvious in sekiro) but it is much more subtle in Bloodborne.
The editing in this video was also EXTREMELY good, i absolutely love the tiny details you put into damn near every frame.
The trigger box is also a really clever thing added by the developers which i did not know about :) probably one of those hidden things that i never would have thought about without this video :)
as always gg m8 well done on the video
Dusty is a legend, never forget that TH-cam 👌 can’t wait to cover Estes design in future videos
I think the blood vials system was implemented this way to encourage the player to just fight the enemies on his way to the boss instead of running past them. If you do that you basically never run out. Also, 4/4 isn't in any way special for a human brain. It became normalized as the "standard" counting because it was the default in most european music and we became culturally accustomed to it.
Incredible insights in this! Very well done. I think the blood vial system was created in inspiration of survival horror games. The way i saw it is that if your vials go out, that means youre not prepared for this specific boss/area and should look out for progress elsewhere.
A direct in-game example for this is gehrmans dialogue after defeating gascoigne. He says to you: "the moon is close. It will be a long hunt tonight. If the beasts loom large (Vicar Amelia, the largest beast in the main campaign who was for many and for myself one of the biggest challenges in the early game) and threaten to crush your spirits (HP in this game is defined by the will to survive, so he directly speaks about having constantly low HP or in the same sense low blood vials) seek a holy chalice (...) in the valey hamlet (old yharnam)". So he basically tells you, if you struggle at this next area, go and seek this holy chalice. The missing detailed description of where to go to actually find it will result in the player exploring other areas randomly and eventually level up and gather more ressources in the process to then tackle amelia and succeeding. This approach will then hopefully be the go-to option for all upcoming challenges and the player will have an easier time with the game.
What a wonderful insight (haha) into a different view on how bloodvials work :) best comment yet! How do you think changing the system to estus flasks might have affected this flow of the narrative and survival aspect of the game?
@@DesignDelve thank you. I think the survival horror aspect would be greatly weakened with estus instead of vials.
with estus, you would not be advised to go explore beyond the main quest beside your own curiosity or getting lost, as you can forcibly beat your way through any story boss with replenished estus by simply trying over and over, making it a question of time when you eventually are gonna proceed. every video game boss can be beaten by one of two things: skill or ressources (like leveling hp so you cant get one shot by that one attack your tries always failed because of). in dark souls, you can eventually become so skilled against an otherwise op boss by simply trying over and over. in bloodborne, you cant without farming. so ressources is the only other way to go.
exploring the optional areas is much less scary in dark souls, as your estus cannot go out so you can venture and explore safely without having to take any risks (only losing souls, but you can bone your way back to bonfire if you have too many). in bloodborne however, the unknown becomes much more threatening as you have something to lose when playing uncarefully (you are seeking this place to gather more ressources for that other area you are stuck in, after all), so you proceed with caution, making never before seen enemies even more threatening and thus, scary.
i like to compare this system with old school resident evils and their herb system. herbs are limited and there are always rooms in those games with very strong enemies, so you try to skip that part to explore elsewhere, only to come back to it later on when youre ready.
I think this system shoots two birds with one bullet. It indirectly advises players to go explore beyond the main quest, resulting in the showcase of the otherwise mostly unseen optional content, while making the unknown (fits the lovecraftian philosophy) scarier than in dark souls.
the only problem is, like with everything in bloodborne, that you have to take the game seriously, as it takes you seriously by communicating this not in a direct way to you. if you play it stubbornly like other games with your mind turned off, you will be punished. you shouldnt play it like an action rpg, you should play it like a survival horror.
D rabbit. I NEED your input when I make the Dark souls videos 👌 you should come join our discord! If you want to of course :)
@@DesignDelve thanks, i feel honored and i'll gladly help! :) I will check out the discord!
Legend 💕 links in the descriptions of all my videos
The blood vials cooperate with drop rates and item placement to prolong your journey through the game. Somewhat like a hunt, you use the resources that you find to jeep going. A player can go through 40+ vials on a good run due to collecting more along the way. The encouragement to farm for them also encourages the theme of bloodlust and insanity. And the best farming spot is in the first area, the one with all the little hints to help you figure out the game
Oh for sure I have no doubt about this 😁 but is encouraging farming on items a good thing? Or is a system like estus flasks better as it keeps the player in the game and focused for longer?
Well brother, astounding work as always. I really hope you get the attention you deserve. Now about the blood vial topic. I believe it's the best healing system they have implemented in their games. Let me explain. It's hardcore, but fair. You need to be and play better if you want more vials. If you refuse to play like the game wants you to and are reckless, you'll pay the price. It's not forgiving as dark souls where it doesn't matter because you get infinite healing items. Also it adds to the concept of fear and panic. You are more stressed while playing because you know you have limited healing. Excellent design that fits the game's theme. Also to be fair once you learn the game a bit, you'll never run out and you'll have more than enough currency to buy them too. It's more simple and straightforward because you don't have to level up your healing abilities like estus and undead bone shards. It's like "here's 20 mate and good luck." Finally it plays better in pvp. Someone who invades or gets invaded will have to think twice before spamming healing, if they are low on resources.
Thank you for the kind words on the video boss 😁 and for sure, I completely understand your point of view on the vial design but I believe that the estus flasks system keeps all the pros you have mentioned while also keeping everyone on the same playing field and not only punishing it’s weakest players. But there are pros and cons for both 😁 what are your opinions on Bloodvials in contrast to estus flasks or healing gourds?
@@DesignDelve Well I believe Bloodborne combined the best of both worlds. What I mean by that is that it took the finite healing from Demon's Souls but set a limit to it like Dark Souls with a set number of vials. Seems pretty balanced to me. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like anything being hard just for the sake of it or artificial difficulty. But having your estus replenish everytime you rest, seems a bit easy to me and there is a lack of risk when healing. It always seemed a bit odd that everything is hard and has to be earned in Dark Souls but the estus is infinite. It's the same concept with the backstab. In DS you just strafe and press R1 and boom. But in Bloodborne you have to time your charge attack, connect the hit and then you can backstab. It takes more skill to pull off.
Wonderful insights dude thank you so much :D the next episode I’m working on is The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 so keep your eyes peeled!
@@DesignDelve Excellent then, I'm looking forward to it!
Great Episode my dude! holy shit the way you describe Bloodborne as a rhythm game was almost poetic. I can see you have put a lot of effort into this episode and it shows. PS. Nice white box of Yharnham :P
M8 a legend among men 3D modelled that environment.
Your use of sound and visuals really made this video for me. The little things like your voice becoming clearer, coming from the "Tv" perspective at the beginning of the video; or the 3D courtyard environment with which you illustrated the use of a trigger volume really made this analysis an interesting watch. I'll definitely be waiting for more in the future :)
Thank you so much Lehmo Nade 😁 you spotting these details makes it allll worth it! I’ve got big things coming up in the near future so keep your eyes pealed 👀
9:26 i'm not an expert at all, but this blood vial system thing made every right move i make feel more rewarding. It just feels good when you defeat a boss and didn't end up spending the majority of your vials because you got good.
but it didn't take a lot of time for me to realize that it's probably a good idea to spend all of my blood echoes on anything before leaving the hunter's dream, so naturally, it seemed that spending whatever is left on blood vials is the best investment; and i ended up going to ng+ with hundreds of vials in my storage so i never had to worry about grinding for them anymore
I can completely see your side of it and how it would be a positive for your experience 😁 what do you think of blood vials in comparison to estus flasks? What’s better in your opinion?
This is the best game ever made, no other game I have played has lived up to my experience of this.
Preach. You hit the nail on the head with this one boss. And didn’t miss.
I thought I was crazy thinking that Ludwig's boss fight theme song was guiding me in the fight and the sword was the wand to the valts. Turns out I wasn't.
Turns out you were spot on 👌
Couldn't have asked for a better video
Thank you Nico 💕 I really dislike this video but thank you for the kind words :)
@@DesignDelve Plenty of content creators, of any kind really, feel the same way about their work. In my eyes, this is a great video with a unique take on the game and some pretty enlightening analysis. I can't wait to see you have a go at the Dark Souls trilogy.
Thank you for the awesome content
Nico you seem like a hero 👌 you should come join the discord so we can talk about my dark souls videos when I start making them. Regardless if you join or not thank you for the kind words :) these comments keep me going
@@DesignDelve heyy why do you dislike it ? i'm so curious, even though I just loved it
I had so much I wanted to say but I had to cut a lot of it out. And the video didn’t turn out how it was in my head. Regardless I hope you enjoyed it :)
Dude, that Kitchen Gun reference was god tier, holy fuck.
BANG BANG BANG, AHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I liked how the bloodvials added some extra pressure in boss fights and if i ever ran out then that told me that i either wasn't ready for that boss or just not good enough the first time i got to Gerham i died so much that i was running low on vials so i took a step back and did some side stuff i missed and when i got back i beat him first try
That’s an interesting way of looking at it but there are other ways around this. One way I’ll be explaining in my next episode on Sekiro 😁
The Anatomy of Sekiro episode is out now! and if you enjoy these videos and want to communicate with me directly / be involved with future streams and behind the scenes filming come and join the discord : discord.gg/B9t7YCF
I got to the "Negative Feedback Loop" bit and how you say it doesn't belong in a game like this, and I have to say I disagree strongly.
There are quite a few times where, in Bloodborne and other single player games, I've run low on supplies and would get my ass thoroughly kicked (especially if I spammed said supplies). What happens when you run out of those supplies? Two things:
1. You farm for more. You learn quickly there are alot of easy locations that just have super manageable enemies, which net both vials and echos to get more vials. This is possibly the easiest player solution to take, but also the most tedious, which more often than not forces the player to-
2. Get Gud. The most difficult solution to reach, but by far the most effective one. As meme-able as it is, being pushed into a corner where resources are no longer helping tends to make even terrible players learn to step up, consider WHY they're getting their ass handed to them so much, and finally learn how to fix it. Sometimes, a player simply NEEDS to go into a "negative feedback loop" in order to learn that it isn't working, and need to break the loop and put on some grown up pants.
The vials in Bloodborne are like an eraser. They erase the mistakes. Of course, if you're constantly erasing mistakes, you'll run out of the eraser, but that's not the fault of the eraser, and the user will figure that out eventually.
@@1Synner The discord invite is invalid. That said, your choreography and production quality here are fantastic. I'm definitely looking forward to similar videos on Dark Souls, especially the first one.
discord.gg/WrSwpkQuJV
Here you go! Hopefully this should work :) and thank you for the kind words I really appreciate it 💕
@@niconoire You @'ed the wrong person, dude.
I play drums and play with a few bands that use varying time signatures and as a HUGE fan of Bloodborne I've never put this together as far as the combat rhythm syncing with the music! You've opened up a deeper level of ways I can appreciate this wonderful game (which I consider my all-time favorite).
Excellent explanation of time signature as well.
Means a lot to me that someone as talented as you liked the way I explained things 😁 I tried to make it understandable for people completely fresh to the idea! Thanks again Jordan I really hope you enjoyed the episode!
@@DesignDelve I've always had a contentious relationship with 5/4 and you've put into words why Blood-starved Beast always gives me a rough go. 😂 made a subscriber out of me. Keep up the good work!
Ohhh m8 thanks for the sub 😁 the next episode on the channel is The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 keep your eyes pealed sonnnnnnn!
I love the rhythmic aspect of FromSoft's games. The Dancer from DS3 is my favorite because it is so rhythmic.
It is a very unique and gripping aspect of their boss design, what do you think of the other games in the series and how they designed their bosses?
When it comes to blood vials I kind of half agree with you. I’ve always viewed them as a limiter on how much you can bash your head against a wall before the game forces you to stop, and take a break. Having your healing times be a non renewing makes it so that if you’re really really struggling it’ll force you to go back to easier areas to take a break giving you time to relax and rethink how to go at your current challenge. This is also further instilled because one of the easiest places to farm for blood vials is the early game. That said the problem is you need to get a sizable distance away from the early game (I’d say getting past cathedral ward) before this idea can be utilized which means you have the already horrible barrier to entry being made more difficult by an design choice that’s suppose to help you.
I can completely see this side of it 👌 wonderful input boss, hope you enjoyed the video :)
underrated video, more people need to know how much of a masterpiece this game is and i'm sure you helped someone realize that, good video man
Thank you so much Namarie 😁 The Anatomy of Sekiro is being worked on as we speak! Keep your eyes peeled 👀
Blood vials are an incentive to practice parrying. The two enemies that drop large amounts are also the two different parries, the giant has a long slow wind up that you wiff by shooting to early, the werewolves are the opposite, in that you wiff to late.
The other two enemies that drop them commonly are the executioner enemy and giant pig, both are in areas surrounded by groups, and teach you to dodge into attacks
This works well with the teaching too. What do you think of Estus flasks in comparison to bloodvials?
@@DesignDelve Estus is something I'm mixed on, bloodvials work really well but the issue I have is that they're ambiguous as to how much you'll heal. Obviously after a while you can intuit that feeling, but I think they're necessary to make the game different from dark souls.
Furthermore every game has to have a low point, and from realized blood vials were their low point and worked as much around that as they could.
Oh for sure, even as a low point it’s not even that bad. I had to look at it from a design perspective, which involves play from its best and worst players. It’s one of the only negatives I could intuit. It’s a fantastically designed game and I personally had no problems with the bloodvial system, but I knew as a designer that many others would and it being so easy to solve I saw it as a flaw.
@@DesignDelve I think as an "issue" it is a good answer honestly. But that's from a completely uneducated standpoint.
On my first playthrough I hated the blood vial system, but the longer I played the game, the more I began to appreciate it. This is because it made it worthwhile to actually fight enemies. In Dark Souls, there is almost no reason not to just run past enemies for items and to get to the bosses, since they don't really drop anything that makes fighting them worth it. However in Bloodborne, huntsmen, the most common enemy type that appear in most areas, have a high chance to drop blood vials, the very thing that the player constantly feels like they are running out of. While it is a very flawed way of making fighting random enemies worthwhile, and I did almost give up on the game multiple times on my first playthrough after running out of blood vials during bosses, I can appreciate the effort to make combat outside of boss fights worthwhile.
Wonderful insight Pure Vessel 😁 what do you think of bloodvials in comparison to estus flasks?
The thing about the blood vials, it honestly can be a problem, but I think it fits Bloodborne. It makes you fight harder and better, why heal when you can rally and beat the shit out of something that keeps beating you
Oh for sure the rally system is genius :D but this system would work the same with an estus system and would remove the problem of punish only it’s weakest players. What do you think boss?
Great work, as always! I'm looking forward to the Alyx video, my favorite game of last year by far!
Thank you error :D you am me both about the Alyx... I am so hype
Great Video M8, i love it when you let yourself talk about sound design as well as game design. Sadly i haven't played Bloodborn but i can see most things you've talked about. But especially the last part about insight was interesting. As a tabletop player for Call of Cthulhu, it is a somewhat terrifying that sometimes you might just need one occurrence to start that journey into the darkness :D
Thank you very much M8
What type of mechanics are in call of Cthulhu, I love seeing mechanical depictions of madness
@@DesignDelve Well there are somewhat two depictions that would correspond to the madness in Bloodborn. Each RPG-Character has a Sanity stat which is between 0-99, the lower it is the closer you are to madness. Sanity gets lowered each time you, as a player, encounter some horror element of the game. And there is the stat which is somewhat like the insight, ergo Cthulhu Mythos, starting at 0% and raised for different knowledge acquired by the Character about the mythos.
Therefore in the rpg, most of the time when someone learns about creatures of the mythos, they learn but at the cost of getting closer to insanity.
Does insanity cause death? Or a kind of loss of character kind of state?
@@DesignDelve Insanity (sanity 0) is basically loss of character. But with each loss of sanity there is a chance that you are afflicted by other conditions like a phobia or obsessive-compulsive disorder. So there is basically a long way, where it can impact a character/player, cause most players start of with 40 to 90 Sanity and often lose smaller amounts due to some horror/cthulhu element.
That’s so awesome 👌 I wanna play
Now I must say that Blood borne is infact a good game but it would be even better as a JRPG, you could play as Johnny Blood in the grand city of south detroit on a quest to unleash the beast as you 5 hit combo your way towards the future that is tomorrow, and then upon the tomorrow you could look at the works of great violence you have wrought and smile for it is good. the only flaw in this inky story that you'll slither across as the tendrils of the arcane knowledge burrows into yourself as the unknowable familiarity of the big C man will becken you hither into his impossibly but instantly brandable "mystery tentacles" but alas that's enough about how the unknowable will always be best mates of Brandon Borne the king of all design choices. what I really think needs to be said is that bloodborne has a gothic style to show the absolute depth of of how the game has a nice victorian aesthetic to it. oh no I've gone MAD :'(
You truely have gone MAD. Forgive me.
this comment is my lifeblood
Suckle from the breast of Conquest
Knew I was gonna chill on YT after a rough day at work, however I didn't know my new favourite episode of "The Anatomy of _____" was gonna be waiting, excellent work as always dude, and loved learning some more insights on one of my favourite games, keep it up boss!
My man, DJ. Hope you’re keep well dude and I hope you enjoyed this episode 💕
Yeah, I'm keeping well thanks, hope you are too!, and you know it man, always top quality content from JM8!
I think nioh’s healing system fixed the blood vial issue. It’s pretty much the same as vials except a player is given a base amount every time they die or rest at the games bonfire equivalent. This way struggling players will always have enough healing to get through even without grinding for a huge supply, but more experienced players can explore more and go longer without resting. This would work especially well for bloodborne as better players who accumulate more vials can explore longer without going back to the hunters dream and dealing with two long loading screens, motivating them to deal with the risk of losing even more echoes, but new players are punished with being forced into the hub to restock (much less severe then grinding) which also makes it less likely for them to deal with the frustration of losing a large amount of echoes they may need to get through.
Owen… You hit the nail on the head dude :) perfect description of how to keep the same systems without the drawbacks. My hero.
i also immediately noticed that the blood vials system had the flaw of needing to farm in some instances and the fact that probably if you finish the blood vials it means that you are already struggling and possibly you died and lost the echoes so you can't even level up or buy blood vials and consumables. It sometimes can ruin a bit the pacing of the game.
Completely agree Double H! Also is your name a reference to Beyond good and evil?
@@DesignDelve Nope sorry, "double H" stands for "Hip Hop", pretty basic if you ask me, i think i'll begin saying it is a reference to beyond good and evil 😂.
M8, either way I’m loving the name 👌
I played through all of bloodbourne without ever parrying a single attack. Now that I see how hard they tried to teach me how to parry I feel kind of bad
Never feel bad for being a pimp 👌
I've heard lots of complaints about having to farm blood vials. At first I sympathized but upon closer inspection.. That's the survival horror aspect of this game. That's all there is to it. Great video mate, well done. Cheers.
How do you feel about bloodvials in comparison to Estus Flasks?
I like to think that the healing system turned out as it is because the chalice dungeons were meant to break the vicious cycle. Once stuck on the same boss for hours (totally not me against Laurence) I think you are meant to do a random dungeon or two to obtain vials/echoes to buy them. Too bad most people find navigating the same two rooms boring
Talking about chalice dungeons was something I cut from my script actually. What do you think of its overall implementation in bloodborne?
The blood vial thing I agree with, however I found they dropped often enough / were corpse drops that i never ran out until the defiled chalice dungeon bosses lol
Oh for sure I completely agree :) it’s only a problem for weaker players but that’s still a problem. What did you think of blood vials in comparison to estus flasks or healing gourds?
@@DesignDelve very hard to beat the estus flask !
Yeaaaaaaa bud 👌
@@DesignDelvethis video came up in my recommended, decided to give it a watch. Got to the healing vial bs part and went to comment but turns out I already did lol. Good video homie enjoyed it again !
Welp i was supposed to return at Halloween for Resident Evil game videos. But can't resist my favorite action horror game!
One point that I notice every Bloodborne video misses is the music. This game's music is on another level.
It is incredible isn’t it.. I’ll see you on Halloween boss ;)
@@DesignDelve this is great. Learned a lot about hitboxes and how they operate.
Awesome dude I’m so glad :D
Absolutely fantastic video J, one of your best yet! As someone who ragequit Bloodborne at Cleric Beast years ago, I completely agree with the negative feedback loop segment, because I just couldn't get anywhere because I never had blood vials, and when I had like 2 of them per try at the boss it just pissed me off and made me not want to play. Although I don't think negative feedback loops are always a bad thing depending on how they're implemented, with the best way to use them is to teach the player something, which leads to them having a deeper understanding of the mechanics the game is trying to teach them. Also when you talked about how the game guides you along, you were spot on because that's the exact way I went when I played lmao.
Completely agree with your assessment of negative feedback loops in other games 👌 and thank you echo 💕
This video absolutely rules!! Thank you for going over my favorite game of all time with such love and valid critique.
Thank YOU for this lovely comment Sky :) made my day! I’d love to hear what you think of my other videos boss :D
dangerously underappreciated video. Hope this gets more views.
Thank you so much TwiggyJack 😁 means a lot to me! If you know of aware you could share it it would help me a bunch 🕺 keep being able legend. Sekiro video coming out in 2 weeks!!
Liked the note about descent into madness. Amnesia and Silent Hill 2 offered some really great depictions of this as well.
Ooooo I’ll have to check them out 👌 in what way are they different?
@@DesignDelve So Amnesia has an entire game mechanic around 'sanity' as a resource, where being in the dark or even looking at monsters triggers a hit to sanity which causes hallucinations, loss of control, and even death (game end). SH2 is more about imagery with set pieces, map design, and character metaphor to cleverly weave this theme of madness into the plot via loss and guilt from the maiin character's experiencs. Both certainly worth a look, would love to hear your analysis if either strike you.
I’ve added them to my list boss thank you for sharing :D
The most underrated TH-camr ever.
Not for long if wonderful people like you stick around 💕 thank you Arya 😁
I like the bit when the things happen and you talk about them best.
Thanks M8 I liked the bit where you watched it and it happened.
@@DesignDelve You're welcome.
I watched a video or read somewhere about the blood vials serving a narrative purpose, forcing you to go to Old Yharnam to hunt like the hunters before you.
That’s a nice way of looking at it 😁 what do you think of bloodvials in comparison to estus flasks?
@@DesignDelve I mean it's a cool idea but brutal from a gameplay perspective, estus all the way.
I get your point on Bloodvlals, but I personally never had any problems with it.
The Bloodvials I got just by normally exploring central Yharnam were enough to survive for a few hours, but I also spend left over blood echoes to buy more. Litetally never ran out of Bloodvials by doing this.
To me it feels more like the game teaches the player to be more careful during exploration and save the bloodvials for bosses this way. I mean strategy has always been a important part in these games and this is one way to teach players not to just attack head on.
The thing is Dark Souls with shields and Estus almost teaches the opposite imo. Estus is an infinite resource and shields actively encourage just tanking hits instead of dodging.
Just like the sniper in central Yharnam, guiding the player to a second path around the enemy horde, the simple fear of losing healing items also encourages looking for ways to get around or behind enemies. Which also leads to the player discovering secret items and areas.
Atleast that's what I believe the game theached me to do.
A very unique look at the system thank you :) I didn’t mean to imply they were a mistake, I have no doubt the developers meant for it to be this way. Why do you think of vials in comparison to estus flasks from the souls series? I’d love to hear your side of it :D
Idk why TH-cam took months to recommend me this video but you just earned a sub. Amazing video.
Its my first video to be pick up by the algorithm 😁 so glad you enjoyed it boss!
Just found your channel through this video and I'm so God damn impressed by the quality of your content especially considering the lower than expected sub count. Subbed and looking forward to new content.
Yo Joe this means a lot to me brother thank you 💕 new video tomorrow!
Great video overall, Bloodborne is definitely my favourite game ever made so it’s always nice to see it receiving some attention even after 6 years. In regards to the blood vial negative feedback loop discussion I used to dislike the system as obviously it’s inconvenient but I feel like it fits the theme far too well for it to be removed. Forcing the player to really hunt the beasts and bringing you down to their level, desperately killing for blood to fuel your rampage is certainly pretty bestial. I also feel like the diminishing healing resource forces you to play more aggressively and places more emphasis on each individual attempt of a boss.
I really like your take on the blood vial problem and it’s connection to narrative elements 👌 really nice. I also hope you enjoyed this episode :D
I actually never had issue with blood vials. Once I got to Cainhurst Castle area I farmed those mosquito bloodsuckers and bought as many as I could hold took about an hour.
What did you think of estus flasks? If you’ve played any souls games that is
@@DesignDelve I've beaten them all. I absolutely love these games. BB is by FAR my favorite. I think they both work. Demon Souls grass was the only thing I really didn't enjoy bc there many different types. So farming IMO became tedious. Maybe its bc I prefer the BB style of fighting than the DS style. But Blood vials only had 1 type to farm for. They were cheap once you get to Cainhurst. Bc the enemies give so many blood echoes plus you can farm for blood chunks on the gargoyle enemies
Very true, I agree with everything you’re saying and I had a similar experience too. In the video I tried to look at it from the perspective of bloodbornes worst players and imo estus is more forgiving.
@@DesignDelve yes the estus is far more forgiving
Honestly I never really had a problem with running out of blood vials and if I did going back and farming while annoying I hate farming did collect me more blood money to make me stronger
It’s a good loop it just needs to be tweaked/changed so it’s not so repetitive
I can see these positives and agree with the suggested changes👌 well put dude!
I may be a little late to the party, but the part about blood vials made ma write this message. While I agree with most of what you have said, I actually find blood vials to be a teaching method. Yes, you run out of them because you struggle and make mistakes, but you struggle and make mistakes because you still have some fundamental things to learn. After being stuck on Shadows of Yharnm because I did not find the summon signs and I lost all my vials, I had to go and farm for them. Where does the game invite your to farm for vials at this point in the game? It's either Central Yharnam or Forbidden Woods. These two areas contain similar entry-level enemies and level designs that are supposed to teach you the ropes of the game, So, as you farm, you also get to understand things better. Or at least that's how it was for me. So, although it may seem like a negative feedback loop, From made it so that it also teaches you what you may have missed the first time you tried to make your way through these areas dodge-spamming, running, and mashing R1.
Hyppee been waiting for this ep for ages and it's so fucking good got me wanting to play even more bloodborne than I already have 😂😂
Bruh I really hope you enjoyed this one dude 👌 basically made for you
At first I thought that the bloodviles were a pain in the ass but it indirectly made me get used to parrying and then master it by going back to yharnum especially by parrying and visceral attacking the mobs but especially the more menacing enemies such as the werewolves the executioner and the brick trolls because they drop more vials and In turn it made me a master at the mechanic really sharpening my skills and becoming exponentially better at the game as I could not utilize all of the mechanics making me a powerhouse so in the end they worked to my advantage greatly
Really nice to hear how it actually made a positive impact to your gameplay 😁 thank you Viktor! What do you think of bloodvials in comparison to Estus Flasks?
The Blood Vial system is both the best and worst aspect of the gameplay loop in Bloodborne. It's like a survival horror healing item where you are unsure when to use it because it may be your last healing item which makes me love it but it absolutely creates the frustration when you're low and you feel so close to beating the boss. The middle ground i could think of is giving the player 2 vials whenever they die to a boss if they're out. Keep the player in and learning but it might cheapen the vials so it's a very tricky balance so it might ruin bloodborne for some.
This is so underrated
Thank you Ground 💕
A series of Dark Souls anatomy sounds great! Really liked this video. Good job!
You’re in luck Aibon 😁 working on the series as we speak and The Anatomy of Sekiro is coming out in a week! Stay tuned and thank you for the kind words I really hope you enjoyed this video 💕
@@DesignDelve Hell yeah! Really looking forward to it. I've just discovered this channel, it was a nice surprise.
I'm specially interested in level design , and in this video you did a great introduction on how carefully is crafted. It can be a very complicated topic, and just with the Central Yharnam area you could spend 2 hours covering every design structure, divergent and convergent paths, Visual landmarks and navigation, telegraphing upcoming events, narrative in the environment/enemy design...
Anyway, Congrats again for your work. I'll be watching more of your videos in the meantime :)
Would love to hear what you think of my other videos too Aibon 😁 looking forward to hearing from you again! See you in future videos!!
M8 - Friday Night Funkin' or Bloodborne - which is the better rhythm game?
Bloodborne. 100%
I vibe to BB soundtrack regularly.
Because you’re clearly a legend 👌
Great vid mate! Though I'm not a fan of these types of games, I still love the way you pull it apart and show how they work and the art and design behind them. I've learnt a bit from this and alot from your Hollow Knight vid about how to let the player figure out what to do, rather then just outright show them. Very helpful indead for my own work!
So glad I could help Paper and I can’t wait to play Bird Turd Attack 💕
@@DesignDelve Cheeeeers!!
i understand why the blood vials were controversial for people that came from dark souls -- bloodborne was my first soulsborne game and i personally had no issue with them being consumable. imo it encourages you to go back to previous areas and polish up your technique via grinding through enemies you've already defeated, which also helps you nudge your level up.
that and the fact that i only actually ran out of vials a handful of times. shoutout to ludwig who cleaned me out several times over lmao.
My boy Ludwig xD this is completely fair and thank you for sharing your perspective :)
@@DesignDelveno problem, thanks for a great video, man! i really enjoyed your little nightmares one too and would love to see a dark souls analysis in future :D
Awwww awesome Astroturf Punk 😁 so glad you’re enjoying the content and on the topic of Fromsoft videos… my next episode is The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 it’ll be out in 2 weeks! See you then boss 😁
I honestly didn't mind the blood vial system. Even if I was walled by a boss and had to stop to farm them or bullets. I used it as a refresh point of sorts, being forced away from the fight helped me reflect on the fight and what I needed to do better or stop doing. I understand not everyone thinks this way while playing games and do not like the blood vial system and that's ok too.
I can completely see your side of it but you also nailed it with your last statement there Justin :) the way I described it being negative was referring to only bloodbornes most struggling players. I’m keen to hear what you think of bloodvials in comparison to estus flasks?
@@DesignDelve I like the Estus Flask system in the later portion of the game after I've been able to level it up. Early game I feel like I'm using more flasks because they heal less. Its still balanced because I always have them no matter how many times I die though. I think the blood vial system makes individual mistakes less punishing. If you have one tricky fight that uses your vials up, you can still get more without resetting, the mob may have even dropped some. With the flasks you are faced with the decision of "do I push on and hope theres a new bonfire soon, or run back and hopefully do better next time" more often. Both have advantages and disadvantages so its really personal preference, my play style just prefers vials.
Completely valid and fair boss 😁 also really appreciate your side of things thank you!
@@DesignDelve I appreciate you taking the time to reapond
Anytime boss 😁
talking about negative feedback loop, reminds me of OG demon souls world tendency.
This is a wonderful insight and great topic for me to cover in The Anatomy of Demon Souls 👀 you have script writers credits now boss.
I was wondering what's the next game to play thanks :)
Great video btw
You’re welcome Mohamed :) glad you enjoyed it boss!
This man is the gift that just keeps giving. God I wish I was cross eyed so I could see you twice. Im ready for you to dump your uploads on me 😉
Ohhhhhh bby 👀 thanks broski
Love the content bud, keep it up!!
Thank you Alvaro :D I really hope you enjoy my videos! Would love to hear what you think of them
@@DesignDelve Honestly just really enjoy your editing style, I agree with most of your opinions and I love your explanations ^^
Thank you Alvaro 😁 I have lots of other episodes I’ve made and I’d love to hear your thoughts on the topics I’ve covered in those :) you seem like a legend m8 👌
farming blood vials is definitely annoying but it makes sense from a lore perspective.
I can see this from a lore perspective 👌
I didn't think the blood vials were a big deal. The mildest of inconveniences, but still inconvenient. I was generally sitting on a ton of blood echoes and I was proficient enough not to die a lot. The except was the DLC. I think I had to farm blood vials for that, which, like I said, was inconvenient.
I guess another thing was I always had blood vials in the back of my mind since I learned in the very beginning they were finite. So I'd be conservative if I could with their use, and if I knew an enemy was going to drop a blood vial or two, I may have been more inclined to ensure I got their drops on my way back to the boss.
I've always believed that in video games, punishment should be short term, whereas rewards should be long term. That way, the player feels good while being taught the systems properly
Completely with you Blizzard Crow 👌 what are your thoughts on the design of blood vials as a system for punishment for newer players?
@@DesignDelve I think it really makes the gane suffer. Bloodborne was the very first game I played, and coming to grips with the controls while having to farm for blood vials is just the absolute worst I had to do. On repeat playthroughs, when I get stuck at a boss in the DLC makes farming tedious instead of painful so it's worse no matter what level you're at. I love this game so much, but damn did the vials really bring it down.
That’s really interesting to hear from someone so new to games. This is a wonderful insight! Have you played any other fromsoftware games? I would love to hear your opinions on those 😁
@@DesignDelve at this point, I've made my way through Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro, and I'm working my way through Dark Souls. I honestly find these games incredible. The world of the first is a marvel, if a bit too easy to get lost in. The pacing of the 3rd is something I've found is lovely to enjoy, especially in The Ringed City DLC, but I think it needed more build diversity. I think Sekiro might have the tightest gameplay out of the ones I've played for me personally, but it lacks in replay valie because of the inability to customize the Wolf. I think the strongest aspect of all of Fromsoftware's games is their ability to make the player understand an entirely metaphorical story (overcoming adversity) only through gameplay and evironment.
I have to ask, how many have you played, and what are your favourite parts about them?
Wonderful :) it’s so nice to hear a passionate souls player explain their joys of the games designs. I personally have played and completed all of them multiple times :) my opinions on them vary from game to game but the next episode I’m going to be working on is The Anatomy of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. So keep an eye out for that boss because you might see how closely our opinions line up 👀
Great one M8 .
Cheers m8 👌 glad you liked it
I'd love to see more of your videos on fromsoft games!
Well you’re in luck boss 👀 the next video I am working on is The Anatomy of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. Stay tuned 📺 p.s I hope you enjoyed the video dude :)
@@DesignDelve I enjoyed it very much. I am always amazed how the algorithm constantly finds new content creators, and it's usually thanks to their Soulsborne series essays.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the episode boss and I’m super happy the algorithm helped you find the channel 👌 hope you can stick around dude :D
Hoy m8! Great vid it keeps getting better!
I didn’t played the game, but wanted to talk about the vials thing.
In the way they designed this system, don’t you think they saw the vials more as an exploration help than a mandatory item on boss fights? The fact that you keep repeating a boss fight should supposedly lead you to a “perfect understanding” of the boss mechanics and attacks, and would mean that IN THEORY you dont need to heal.
And that’s in opposition with exploration, where you face unpredictable dangers and ennemies, which also seem to reward you those vials.
I don’t know if it makes sense but maybe they made this system with that idea in mind.
What do you think about it? :)
I’m glad you enjoyed the video boss 😁 and in regards to the alternate take on the design of the vials I can see where you’re coming from I just don’t think the positives of an exploration aid out way the negatives of having to farm for items, once you have ran out of vials the one place you most players will go to the easiest area (central yharnam again) and farm vials that way for the path of least resistance so in essence it can even hinder exploration. But I do like the idea 👌 have you seen this form of healing in any other games?
Bro. This video was put together way to well to only have 2k subs. So here's one more sub.
You’re a legend? You know that?
once i realised i should buy vials with my left over echos after i level i didn't mind blood vials
This is completely fair boss 👌 what are your thoughts on blood vials in comparison to estus flasks?
@@DesignDelve Hmm with estus flasks i felt like i had to strategize a little more. With the limited number it really hurt if you made silly mistakes. But I guess BB has 20 flasks and DS has 13? or 15? i can't quite remember.. btw big fan of your work :)
I guess it depends on the desired out look of healing and what the designers want to do with it. Also super glad you’re enjoying the content dude 😁
Great subject.
Hope you enjoyed the episode boss :)
The problem with blood vials could have been solved through expanding a poorly used game mechanic : the stump messengers. The little guys are hanging around everywhere, yet they have almost no gameplay role except messaging and death stones. Their stump in the hunter's dream should have had more utility, like accepting large offerings of echoes or actual vials so the messengers bring you, say 5 or 10 vials on respawn everytime you run out... It would make the game far more palatable without diluting the game logic and cut the need for farming.
Also, the inventory items should all be infinite in number, but limited in use, like once you acquire the shaman bone blade, there should be an infinite number in the stockpile back in the dream, and 3 use per try like it is now
These are wonderful suggestions that I really really like 👌 what is your opinion on estus flasks and do you feel they have the same issues?
@@DesignDelve estus is bestus, but the ds1 variety, not the split flasks from ds3
M8, we’re on the same page. The next episode I’m working on is The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 keep your eyes peeled boss!
This video is delightfully crafted. How did you do the 3D model of the maps?
To answer your question: blood borne is the one and only soulslike game that I managed to play past the first encounters. I even finished it! I definitely did struggle with the potion issue and I agree that it sorta breaks the good flow of the game. On the other hand I kept farming towards the end cause it got way too difficult for me so I was already doing that .
Good luck with your future videos !
I crafted the 3D models with a close friend of mine we are both game developers :) and it’s wonderful to get your insight on your experience of the game! What do you think of the other souls like games?
And thank you for the good luck I hope you’re enjoying them Arturo :D
@@DesignDelve As an experienced videogamer, but first timer in any souls like, I always struggled. Lost my will after the first encounters. No learning curve. I found bloodborne different in that sense. Still extremely hard, but gave me the chance to get that rythm right. Keep up your amazing quality mate.
Fantastic video as always, m8
My boi Rainyboi at it again with the encouragement. What a legend among mere mortals. Thanks m8 💕
Loved the video! Instant sub! Although I honestly don’t think the boss attack animations are literally synced to the beat and time signature of the music. It is true that the tempo and feel of Gascoigne boss music matches the tempo and feel of the fight. But I think it’s a bit of a stretch to claim that the attacke are actually synced to the music. I’d love to be proven wrong tho :) I’ve platinumed Bloodborne and I’m a trained musician so I should be able to notice this kind of a thing but to me it’s not there. Gascoigne’s attacks are rhythmically all over the place from the perspective of the soundtrack.
Really glad you enjoyed the video Mikko :D and thanks for the sub! I’m actually going to be going in depth into this music topic in a future video so stay tuned for that!
@@DesignDelve awesome! Looking forward to it!
💕
Yep, do dat shit. Subbed and waiting. :) I’ll just go ahead and binge your other well done vids in the meantime.
Oh m8 Thanks for the sub dude 😁 also I’d love to hear what you think of my other videos boss! Gimme that FRESH feedback 👌
Such a great video dude !
Thank you boss 😁 so glad you enjoyed it
bloodborne is a rhythm game, noone can convince me of anything else
It is a fact. To be sure.
Most useful game theory episode ever
Sekiro > Bloodborne @ being a rhythm game. But I see your point.
Why do you think sekiro is better at this in your opinion?
@@DesignDelve not better, but as far as rhythm goes, Sekiro is a game that literally teaches you a parry system to become advanced. Bloodborne is still a hack n' slash. (My opinion). Both amazing games in their own way.
I lean a tad bit more to Sekiro, though. I beat Bloodborne 3x, Platinumed and did the old hunters 100%, Sekiro is my proudest Platinum lol
This was a very interesting watch!!!! I’m very interested in watching a series analyzing the design philosophy of the Dark Souls games. I think it would be pretty interesting to look at how the design choices have changed between the games.
Really happy you enjoyed it boss :) anything you’d like to see me cover specifically? How much do you know about dark souls mr Solaire 👀
@@DesignDelve I am by no means an expert on game design, but some possibly interesting topics could be the healing mechanics of the 3 souls games, the shift from branching inter-connected levels in Dark Souls 1 to the more intra-connected levels of Dark Souls 3, how the games invisibly teach players how to play and where to go similarly to what you discussed in this video, and how and why Dark Souls combat works best with 1 on 1 encounters. I’m a really big fan of FromSoftware’s souls games (from Demon’s Souls to Sekiro) and I would like to think I know quite a bit about these games as they are very special to me.
I might call upon you when I make the dark souls series 👀 you should join the discord fam
@@DesignDelve It would be my pleasure! How do I join the discord?
Link is in the description boss :D
You deserve more views!
Thank you Jose :D means a lot to me!
I think the vial mechanic has to be discussed in terms of the literary themes of the game. In the fiction, Yharnam’s blood was an addictive substance that transforms those who take it into beasts-creatures of instinct-in contrast to the Great Ones who are above humanity in the classic Lovecraftian style. The vials’ limited capacity forces you to engage with that theme, because when you run out, you are hampered; withdrawal! And then, like an animal, you have to return to safer hunting grounds to eat your fill; for many players this will be Central Yharnam because it’s what they first knew, like a cradle you cower in by instinct.
Wonderful insight here (haha 🥴) I can completely see this side of it. From a narrative standpoint the bloodvial mechanic is complimentary but from a gameplay perspective it can be a burden for bloodborne’s weakest players. What do you think personally should take president in design, narrative justification or play experience? I’d love to hear your side on this EndyHawk 😁
@@DesignDelve I think both should work in synchrony; ludonarrative resonance! I agree this (the vial mechanic) can be a hamper on fresh players; I think a lot of Souls-players forget about that first playthrough, and get a bit up their own butt about the "git gud" stuff. I see two remedies that the game provides though. Firstly, the Bath Messenger shop sells vials for cheap, and one can either forgo grinding for vials by purchasing them with excess echoes after upgrades, or double down on grinding by converting the vial grind Blood Echoes into more vials! Second, what's unique about From games is the communal aspect; both the immediate online interactions of summons and invasions, but also the detective work that goes into finding secret bosses and levels (Painted World, anyone?) and piecing together the narrative. In this case, I think turning to both is beneficial for new players; summons (both NPC and online) can help punch through a sticking point, and though I'd never suggest that turning to an out-of-game resource is an ideal solution, in this case it's likely that a player will stumble upon some rabbit hole they missed earlier, go back and discover a hidden weapon, new armor, or optional level that they can explore that would be a lower level, and offer more opportunity for advancement!
Again, wonderful reply boss 👌 I can see a lot of the positives you’re pointing out here. What do you think of blood vials in comparison to Estus Flasks? What has a cleaner design principle?
@@DesignDelve "Cleaner"? I'd say Estus since the full refill on rest/death is simpler to grasp, but BB's more interesting with the Rally and Vials working together. I think that they play up their respective series' focus; Estus is slow but potent, reflecting patient defense and opportunistic rhythm. Bloodborne is quick and locked at 40%, meaning that you have to rely more on Rally to offset this, favoring hyperaggression and pulse-pounding snap decisions (unless you're doing an arcane build with the gloves and just....unloading magic missiles at poor Amygdala >.>). Also with Estus as with Vials, we get some cool story resonance, with the lighting of the bonfires and their enrichment serving a ritual function, a literal carrying of the torch from shrine to god. Thanks for the fun conversation! I'm on hold right now, and this is making it go quicker! =P
No, thank you! Wonderful to talk to someone with such a fresh look on healing in the soulsborne series :) and so well put too! You should make some videos boss 👀
I honestly didnt mind the blood vial system
Completely fair bud 👌
hory shet I thought you've got more subs. with this kind of content, you definitely deserve more.
Thank you Vallen Vega :) I really hope you enjoy the videos I’m making and this sort of comment really keeps me going thank you! We are growing slowly but surely and if you know of anywhere you could share my videos to help out I’d be eternally grateful :D also I’d love to hear what you think of my other videos boss :D
This was interesting!
Thank you boss :D I have other similar episodes that I think you might like!
I love the blood vial system. The reason I like it is because I love getting punished for my mistakes. If i did something wrong and used too many blood vials i deserve to be punished. Farming vials is very easy if you farm enemies that drop them and at the same time use the blood echoes you get from them to buy more as well. The only problem I have with this is that the load times in Bloodborne is TERRIBLE and you often have to reload an area multiple times if you want to stock up with a lot of vials. This means you have to spend many minutes behind loading screens before you're ready to push forward and progress again. TLDR; The blood vial system is great but the load times makes it terrible.
Great video, this channel is great and very underrated, however I disagree with you on your stance on blood vials, when I first played bloodborne I was turned off by the fact I had to buy and scavenge for my own healing items especially compared to the unlimited estus of the Dark Souls series, however when I got into the game more I realised just how much it added to the atmosphere of the game, Bloodborne's world is not kind, it's overrun with viscous foes and tough as nails bosses, the same could be said about Dark Souls yes but in that game you're the chosen undead with a connection to the bonfire, it makes sense why health wouldn't have to be sought of by the player in that game, also Dark Souls does not allow you to regain health shortly after being hit and its combat system is harder to master than the Bloodborne combat system in my opinion anyway, so I think estus fit that game perfectly. You also mention that in Bloodborne having to get your own healing items may make it so that you can't keep trying and have to interrupt your attempt at a boss by having to go get blood vials every few attempts, however I would have to disagree, you can still try a boss without any healing items, in fact not having any healing items may just give you time to experiment and learn a bosses attacks so that you can come back with healing items, defeat the boss and feel like a badass. I don't think Bloodborne's, blood vial system is better or worse than the Dark Souls estus flasks, I think both approaches suited both games and neither one is better in my opinion. If I got anything wrong about your opinion then I'm sorry and feel free to correct me, thanks for reading to the end, this is an amazing video and channel, have a great day.
Really glad you enjoyed the video boss and thank you for the kind words on it :) I can actually completely see your side of bloodvials boss I really can, I actually felt the same way on my first play through but in the video I tried to look at it from a new player experience. I think both sides are valid depending on the player :)
amazing video
Thanks you TRAVISS :D mean a lot to me!
Yes, I would love a Dark Souls analysis! I prefer Estus system of healing over the Blood Vials. It's one of the reasons why I didn't finish Bloodborne, the farming was too irritating, whereas in Dark Souls I get my Estus refilled at the cozy bonfire. Btw your "fine wine" joke didn't look like you were drinking real wine. Or was it? :D
I can’t wait to cover dark souls :) especially Estus systems. It wasn’t real wine btw 👌 it was lingonberry juice 👀
Production value and only 3k subs?
Boi you better get into it the algorithm has chosen
Although this title I was looking more for the biology of bloodborne creatures😅
M8 soon the algorithm will catch us 🕺and thank you brother 😁 soon m8
Cool
Neato
bloodvials is not as inherently negative as of a feedback loop as the user. rather then going and spamming them away. or spending resources to buy more. people are meant to push forward, and try to do more without using them at all. not because they have 0 but because they learn to stay at 20, and practice dodging useless fights of all proportions. worse case scenario. you can go farm bloodechos and vials to power up at your discretion.
Like I mentioned in the episode it’s only a huge problem for new or struggling players :) what are your opinions on bloodvials in comparison to estus flasks?
Having said it's a rhythm game, how do you make sense of the Mergo boss fight that doesn't have music?
Not all bosses utilise this feature :) and the removal of it can make certain bosses subconsciously harder for some people. What bosses did you struggle with most on your first play through?
@@DesignDelve oh, I see. Because I never really thought of it as a rhythm game even after 4 playthroughs.
My first struggle was with Father Gasoline, for sure like most people. BB is my first Fromsoft game and my favourite so far!
Oh awesome! Did it lead to you trying the other games made by fromsoft?
@@DesignDelve oh, yes. The only thing left for me is Sekiro and looking forward to Elden Ring!
Oh, and great content! Glad to see Bloodborne stuff in 2021!
I am actually currently filming my next episode as we speak… which is The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 keep your eyes peeled dude! And thank you for the kind words on the content 😁
the limited-quantity, dropped-item blood vial system is overly punishing to new players and encourages vial farming, which might theoretically help some struggling players to get a better grip on the basics of combat (especially in the unlikely event that this sends a player looking into the chalices), but runs the risk of turning away players who would enjoy the game more without the (actually unnecessary) grind. for seasoned players, vials become a non-issue
I can completely see this boss :) the only reason I mentioned it was for the most vulnerable players. I personally didn’t have an issue with them myself as I’ve been playing souls games for years but I needed to mention it because it is an issue for some. Thanks for your input boss I hope you enjoyed the episode :)
Underrated!
Thank you Pavel 😁 would you be interested in seeing more Fromsoftware games covered on the channel?
@@DesignDelve absolutely! I’d love to see sone DS3 as well. I do love those games for sure, and your analysis covers topics I’ve not heared other youtubers talk about (the sourceless “guiding” light, the “trigger boxes” etc.). Are you actually a game design professor? 😄
Yes I am actually a professor, I teach at a university in England 😁 and I also plan to cover ALL fromsoft games so I hope you can stick around for more in the future! Thanks for your kind words Pavel they mean a lot to me!
Mooooore Bloodborne!!!!!
We might not get more Bloodborne by the next episode on the channel is going seen be The Anatomy of Sekiro 👀 keeps your eyes peeled boss!
After Bloodborne, From Software took the tempo-based attack patterns into Dark Souls III's boss design for more Rhythm gaming.
It’s wonderful to see this kind of technical design be used in such modern GameStop communication between the musical composition and animation teams is usually quite sparse, kept separate from each other and this type of design takes dedication. Really hope you enjoyed this one Airra :)
I’ve read somewhere that the Dancers’ moveset follows the music track. To beat her, you must “dance” with her. Not sure it’s true but interesting if it is.
Wonderful insight boss :)
@@TheDanBlanchet No, you just need a decent STR build 😄