You can tap the tool in the collet with light taps using say a screwdriver and a small mallet and essentially get it to 0 runout. This works for endmills and stuff too.
Peter great video, lots of information! I was looking at the TTC200 and it appears to be set at a bit of an angle on your table. Maybe you are getting a tiny bit of parallax error in you measurement due to the rotation of the toolsetter. Just a thought, I am by no means a math wiz.
There's a lot in this video which isn't being explained a bit better. The Program you run to calibrate the height of the probe seems to be an MDI program, but I cannot find the MDI page at all. :O
I think the tool measuring can be set up, there are the screens and the buttons for it, but I haven’t looked into setting that up. Only the 828 and 840 have the siemens measuring cycles available, and I believe you have to pay for them (according to a friend with an 828).
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 Yeah the measuring cycles you have to buy, but I figured the 808 at least had the Siemens tool measurement cycles, instead of having to use those weird sub programs. I like keeping Siemens controls as native as possible because their stuff is so intuitive. I got on an 840d with renishaw part measuring cycles one time and it drove me bonkers because the Siemens stuff is so much nicer. Renishaw won't put the time into developing cycle masks for that control for some reason.
Do BT30 tool holders always end up at the same height in the spindle? I thought the height could vary a little since they don't stop on the flange, so the master tool height you measured could also vary? I'm not sure how much.
Hello, Great video, thank you for posting. Did you bought the machine with the TTC200 already in or did you bought in later time? I bought a XYZ-710 CNC with a Siemens 828D and i would like to add this probe, do you know if the probing routines are already into the controller program or i have to buy them from Siemens? Thank you for your time and help if you know that. Regards.
Emanuel Bonetta hello. Thanks. I should redo this video now after using it a lot more! I got it with the probe installed at the factory, but pioneer supplies the macros to use with the controller. I’m not using the Siemens probing screens right now, it’s all macro. I’ve also got in program breakage detection working.
John I would agree that if they were the same cost as Renishaw I would go that route. I certainly didn’t pay Renishaw price for mine. What did they quote you??
When you measure "TIR" at a single point relative to a rotating part the actual "runout" of that part while spinning is DOUBLE the "TIR" since you're seeing "TIR" at the "high spot" on a rotating part and that "high spot" travels in a full circle each revolution. Your total "wobble" is going to be "six tenths" or rather SIX TEN THOUSANDTHS if you're saying "tenth" referring to "tenths of a thousandth". That puts you at .0006" "wobble" at ZERO RPM and with no "deflection" or "load" on the machine. And unless your "calibration tool" has that much "wobble" it must be at least PARTIALLY in the machine itself. Which means you can just forget about ever "holding" any "tolerance" in "tenths" or "ten thousandths" since your "calibrating" your machine in a "best-case scenario" without load, deflect, rotation and with a "calibration tool" that may have "wobble" but not all of the many "tenths" of total "wobble". Not that any "hobbyist" CNC machine or even most "production" CNC machines are ever going to "hold" tenths throughout a series of "cuts" or that "specifications" and "tolerances" in the REAL WORLD are "written" BEFORE parts are actually made on the "production" machine available to the manufacturer's "engineers" instead of AFTER their HARDWARE proves what it can do with its SOFTWARE on a "production" basis. The idea that all "specs" and "tolerances" are "calculated" and "specified" by "engineers" and then its just a matter of "making" the available machine tool technology "produce" parts to "specs" and "tolerances" determined entirely by "engineers" with no clue what's actually possible with "existing technology" is pretty hilarious. SAD for those wannabe "machinists" who believe it and get suckered into buying new and used machine tools and especially "CNC" tools believing that its all about the "machines" and somebody will just bring them a "print" and their "new" machine will magically have that capability because the "engineers" said so and the "manufacturer" or "supplier" of their "new" machine "published" so-called "specifications" for that machine that "prove" its "accurate" and "precise" enough to "hold tenths". News flash. There's no such thing as "holding" a TOLERANCE SINCE ANY DEVIATION FROM THE SPECIFIED DIMENSION "USES UP" SOME OF WHATEVER "TOLERANCE" IS "ALLOWED" BUT THOSE PARTS WITH DIMENSIONAL DEVIATIONS FROM SPEC ARE STILL "OUT OF SPEC" PARTS WHILE "IN TOLERANCE". That allowed "tolerance" is also a maximum deviation that has to be "held" all along every section of every part with that SPECIFIED DIMENSION AND NO "TOLERANCE" IS ALLOWED FOR "TAPER" OR "RUNOUT" SO THE "OUT OF SPEC" BUT "IN TOLERANCE" SECTION AND PARTS STILL HAVE TO BE "STRAIGHT" AND "ROUND" OR "SQUARE" AND "FLAT" AS THE CASE MAY BE SO AT LEAST "HALF" THE "SPECIFICATIONS" ARE "MET". And its a really bad idea to use any more of that "tolerance" than you absolutely have to since manufacturer's tend to CHECK "outside work" and if a "sample" of production parts covers the WHOLE RANGE OF "TOLERANCE" you can forget about ever getting "work" that requires MORE precision and probably forget about getting more "work" PERIOD since even manufacturer's who "have to" farm out "machine work" are still smart enough about machine work to know that no machine tool gets "more precise" as it wears and no "machinist" gets more "professional" as he/she gets more "work" and the odds of that same "shop" producing another "run" of the same part and "holding" the same "full range" of tolerance again or LESS are somewhere between slim and none. Especially a "rookie" machinist with a "hobbyist" machine tool trying to do "commercial" work for "manufacturer's" on a production basis. Anybody who doesn't "get" that "major" manufacturers don't "farm out" work that can be "reliably" performed with a "hobbyist" machine tool and a "rookie" machinist that's going to "cost" it way under $100,000 a year even if they have to "invest" in both the tool and "machinist" from scratch and "train" the machinist unless they're "broke" or "cutting back" or otherwise committed to "long-term" production of a given "product" that requires a part that "easy" and "cheap" to produce "in-house" and that going out and buying that same "hobbyist" machine and becoming a "machinist" is a guaranteed way to "make money" doing the work that "manufacturer's just won't do" is in for a rude awakening when the "work" they expect to flood in from a "manufacturer" they were told would need "job shopped" doesn't magically appear just because they have their "machine shop" up and running.
You can tap the tool in the collet with light taps using say a screwdriver and a small mallet and essentially get it to 0 runout. This works for endmills and stuff too.
This helped me a ton. Thank you.
This is an awesome vid Pete
Great content for all new X7 owners
I will definitely be following this to reset mine next week
Legend 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Peter great video, lots of information! I was looking at the TTC200 and it appears to be set at a bit of an angle on your table. Maybe you are getting a tiny bit of parallax error in you measurement due to the rotation of the toolsetter. Just a thought, I am by no means a math wiz.
Love the work you're doing Peter. Keep it up bruddah ;-)
There's a lot in this video which isn't being explained a bit better. The Program you run to calibrate the height of the probe seems to be an MDI program, but I cannot find the MDI page at all. :O
The machine doesn't have the Siemens tool measurement and calibration cycles?
I think the tool measuring can be set up, there are the screens and the buttons for it, but I haven’t looked into setting that up. Only the 828 and 840 have the siemens measuring cycles available, and I believe you have to pay for them (according to a friend with an 828).
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 Yeah the measuring cycles you have to buy, but I figured the 808 at least had the Siemens tool measurement cycles, instead of having to use those weird sub programs. I like keeping Siemens controls as native as possible because their stuff is so intuitive. I got on an 840d with renishaw part measuring cycles one time and it drove me bonkers because the Siemens stuff is so much nicer. Renishaw won't put the time into developing cycle masks for that control for some reason.
Do BT30 tool holders always end up at the same height in the spindle? I thought the height could vary a little since they don't stop on the flange, so the master tool height you measured could also vary? I'm not sure how much.
Fast Lane Innovations
From tool to tool it could vary but the same tool will always seat the same.
@@ianagos4276 OK, thanks that's good to know.
Hello, Great video, thank you for posting.
Did you bought the machine with the TTC200 already in or did you bought in later time?
I bought a XYZ-710 CNC with a Siemens 828D and i would like to add this probe, do you know if the probing routines are already into the controller program or i have to buy them from Siemens?
Thank you for your time and help if you know that.
Regards.
Emanuel Bonetta hello. Thanks. I should redo this video now after using it a lot more! I got it with the probe installed at the factory, but pioneer supplies the macros to use with the controller. I’m not using the Siemens probing screens right now, it’s all macro. I’ve also got in program breakage detection working.
John you can buy them directly from pioneer. Just google pioneer probe.
John I would agree that if they were the same cost as Renishaw I would go that route. I certainly didn’t pay Renishaw price for mine. What did they quote you??
John so $500 for the TTC200? That’s a really good deal. I’ve been very happy with mine!!
10:52 Gesundheit...
absolute encoders are pure pain in the ass
When you measure "TIR" at a single point relative to a rotating part the actual "runout" of that part while spinning is DOUBLE the "TIR" since you're seeing "TIR" at the "high spot" on a rotating part and that "high spot" travels in a full circle each revolution. Your total "wobble" is going to be "six tenths" or rather SIX TEN THOUSANDTHS if you're saying "tenth" referring to "tenths of a thousandth". That puts you at .0006" "wobble" at ZERO RPM and with no "deflection" or "load" on the machine. And unless your "calibration tool" has that much "wobble" it must be at least PARTIALLY in the machine itself. Which means you can just forget about ever "holding" any "tolerance" in "tenths" or "ten thousandths" since your "calibrating" your machine in a "best-case scenario" without load, deflect, rotation and with a "calibration tool" that may have "wobble" but not all of the many "tenths" of total "wobble".
Not that any "hobbyist" CNC machine or even most "production" CNC machines are ever going to "hold" tenths throughout a series of "cuts" or that "specifications" and "tolerances" in the REAL WORLD are "written" BEFORE parts are actually made on the "production" machine available to the manufacturer's "engineers" instead of AFTER their HARDWARE proves what it can do with its SOFTWARE on a "production" basis. The idea that all "specs" and "tolerances" are "calculated" and "specified" by "engineers" and then its just a matter of "making" the available machine tool technology "produce" parts to "specs" and "tolerances" determined entirely by "engineers" with no clue what's actually possible with "existing technology" is pretty hilarious. SAD for those wannabe "machinists" who believe it and get suckered into buying new and used machine tools and especially "CNC" tools believing that its all about the "machines" and somebody will just bring them a "print" and their "new" machine will magically have that capability because the "engineers" said so and the "manufacturer" or "supplier" of their "new" machine "published" so-called "specifications" for that machine that "prove" its "accurate" and "precise" enough to "hold tenths".
News flash. There's no such thing as "holding" a TOLERANCE SINCE ANY DEVIATION FROM THE SPECIFIED DIMENSION "USES UP" SOME OF WHATEVER "TOLERANCE" IS "ALLOWED" BUT THOSE PARTS WITH DIMENSIONAL DEVIATIONS FROM SPEC ARE STILL "OUT OF SPEC" PARTS WHILE "IN TOLERANCE". That allowed "tolerance" is also a maximum deviation that has to be "held" all along every section of every part with that SPECIFIED DIMENSION AND NO "TOLERANCE" IS ALLOWED FOR "TAPER" OR "RUNOUT" SO THE "OUT OF SPEC" BUT "IN TOLERANCE" SECTION AND PARTS STILL HAVE TO BE "STRAIGHT" AND "ROUND" OR "SQUARE" AND "FLAT" AS THE CASE MAY BE SO AT LEAST "HALF" THE "SPECIFICATIONS" ARE "MET".
And its a really bad idea to use any more of that "tolerance" than you absolutely have to since manufacturer's tend to CHECK "outside work" and if a "sample" of production parts covers the WHOLE RANGE OF "TOLERANCE" you can forget about ever getting "work" that requires MORE precision and probably forget about getting more "work" PERIOD since even manufacturer's who "have to" farm out "machine work" are still smart enough about machine work to know that no machine tool gets "more precise" as it wears and no "machinist" gets more "professional" as he/she gets more "work" and the odds of that same "shop" producing another "run" of the same part and "holding" the same "full range" of tolerance again or LESS are somewhere between slim and none.
Especially a "rookie" machinist with a "hobbyist" machine tool trying to do "commercial" work for "manufacturer's" on a production basis. Anybody who doesn't "get" that "major" manufacturers don't "farm out" work that can be "reliably" performed with a "hobbyist" machine tool and a "rookie" machinist that's going to "cost" it way under $100,000 a year even if they have to "invest" in both the tool and "machinist" from scratch and "train" the machinist unless they're "broke" or "cutting back" or otherwise committed to "long-term" production of a given "product" that requires a part that "easy" and "cheap" to produce "in-house" and that going out and buying that same "hobbyist" machine and becoming a "machinist" is a guaranteed way to "make money" doing the work that "manufacturer's just won't do" is in for a rude awakening when the "work" they expect to flood in from a "manufacturer" they were told would need "job shopped" doesn't magically appear just because they have their "machine shop" up and running.
DEEREMEYER1 quite the response! I will have to read that a couple more times but I think I agree with all of it.