Is It Safe To Put A Lithium Battery Under The Hood? We Test & Find Out!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Decreased life due to being overheated is a concern but, WILL IT CATCH ON FIRE? We test a 75 amp hour lifepo4 lithium-ion battery under the hood of our overland vehicle to see if the rumors of subjecting a lithium battery to extreme heat will cause it to burst into flames are true. Can a lithium battery mounted under the bonnet catch fire, and just how hot does it get under the hood of a Toyota 4Runner?
We subjected the test battery to a wide range of on road and off road conditions. Using strategically placed sensors we were able to monitor the temperature of the battery, as well as the ambient under the hood temp. We used our Victron Battery Monitoring System to keep tabs on exactly how the battery was performing during all our testing.
In the video we also do a brief lithium vs. AGM comparison.
We want to thank ElecrovoltUSA for supplying us with the LiONCore Lithium-ion test battery and providing their expert advice on lithium batteries and the results of our testing.
www.vpwllc.com...
Also a big thank you goes out to our partner Moore Expo for helping with the cost of producing this video.
mooreexpo.com/
Great test! I put my battle born in the back of the jeep for this reason - my LS swap was producing a ton of under hood heat. Thanks for continuing the useful and educational videos.
Hi. Good video. This is true for alot of makes of lithium batteries. However here in Australia we have a manufacturer of an under bonnet lithium battery. It is warranted for dual purpose crank and deep cycle discharge/recharge. From what I have heard the main reasons for most manufacturers not allowing under bonnet applications is the BMS ability to handle the heat (this is providing the battery is using high grade cells). DCS lithium is the brand in Australia if your interested. I do know of another brand launching an under bonnet series as well.
Also on another note. The Redarc BCDC is the best charger in my opinion. However it would be better off mounted behind your grill as they do derate once they hit 50 deg Celsius. So it may affect your charge output in hot conditions.
With just insulation, you're only slowing the heat transfer, not preventing it. You'd almost need a sealed compartment with either convection cooling from the outside air, or active cooling, be it from forced air from the outside, or modifying the AC to pass some of that cold air through your battery box before returning to the cabin. I supposed this could also be used to heat the battery in the winter, though a feel a simple heating mat would be faster/more effective, but if the engine is already warm, it would be all you need.
Edit, i think you could use your existing insulated box, if you found a small air intercooler, sort of like the ones used in movies/tvs for small "tuner" cars, and placed it up front next to the radiator and added some small low powered fans plum it up to the battery box with a small fan to circulate the air through the system. Hopefully that will get enough outside air flowing over the intercooler to keep that internal temperature low. I'd just be afraid of using dusty atmoshere possibly caking conductive particles over the battery and terminals. Then again your factory battery seems fine.
I noticed on your video the battery you were using is Litium ion. That’s different from LiFePo4. I learned here on TH-cam that Litium ion gets hotter than LiFePo4. Have you consider doing a test with a LiFePo4?
I was going to comment on the same thing . The Lithium ion phosfate can withstand more heat. By I have not seen it tested.
Yep Lipo is not recommended at all for use under the hood. Lipo performs better in smaller applications. LiFePo4 batteries are 100% incombustible so there’s no chance of it catching fire or exploding. There’s no overheating as well regardless how you charge them. On top of all that it’s very cost efficient. Chins, Amped, Power Queen, Rebel, Ampere, Dakota all are good brands.
If you watch this video on a larger display in HD, you can see the battery on the bench is labeled LifePo4. You guys are confused. Maybe the "LiON Core" label is throwing some people off.
Great test! I was contemplating the same scenario tonight. AGM is toast, and disappointing for how expensive they are. Would love to replace it with a lithium. My issue is compounded by cold temps here in UT. Often below freezing for weeks at a time. The heated Battleborn is perfect for this. But the summer heat is a bit tougher. Wondering if Peltier plates could be incorporated for cooling... th-cam.com/video/rT9-HUzUqhQ/w-d-xo.html
Definitely won’t be using a lithium battery here in AZ. It could hit those temps sitting in a parking lot. Need to get some sealed battery under the hood though.
LTO chemistry would probably work.
Could also look at a secondary radiator for liquid cooling (don't tie into engine cooling).
Absolutely a great topic for your channel. Thanks for researching this---much appreciated.
I went to find that the electroVolt battery is Lithium-ion and not Lithium Phosphate (LiFePo4).
I vented my ac through my glove box that I had insulated as a way to keep a couple of drinks cool in the Florida summer.
It worked somewhat.
I'm toying with plumbing an ac line into an insulated battery box to keep a lithium battery cool.
Very cool!
When you first were fitting this I knew it wouldn't work at the extreme ends of overlanding. A desert in 4 low is hard on equipment. Very cool to see such detailed test though. With lithiums in my rig I often experience the opposite end of the spectrum to cold to work. At -12F camping last year I heard the cells popping and cracking and the charge controller shut off way before then. Litihium phosphate so perhaps a different cell technology.
I'd love to see the second test.
I wonder if there is some way to build an encasement with intercooling technology to lower the temperature of the battery.
super standup battery company. If they figure out how to get it safe under the hood, I'll buy from them.
True! Honesty is the best policy
Dakota Lithium now offers a dual purpose battery designed for under hood applications. I'd be really curious how that tested. Maybe if you gave them the opportunity they would give you one for a review?
We'll look into it, thanks!
There are lithium batteries for car stereo that you can use under hood that handles heat just fine.
Any thoughts on hood venting and actively pushing air through the engine bay? Very similar to how we cool CPUs in computers.
This would be a much better idea especially considering my above comment
Use computer fans to cool it down.
Thank you for testing this out! I’ll stick with AGM until this solution is safe enough.
Same here, I’ll stick with the AGMs on my dual battery setup, interesting to see how it would hold up in extreme cold temps.
@@Troche571 the battery monitor system doesn't except a charge until it reaches temp . plenty of RV's are extremely hot in their battery compartments
Been running dual lithium under the hood for 4 years.. no issues
So where in Alaska do you operate? Arizona + Lipo means early AND often failure including loss of vehicle
@@jeancrystobal7942 outback Australia! Gets hotter than Arizona. However, I didn't use some crap battery either.
@@Jay-hr9ci sorry pal I don't believe you = either a fanboy or paid shill = you said your underhood got to 168F and BMS shut down = how is that "no issues"
I have measured 180F in Arizona and thus replace belts hoses every 2 years - same with lead acid battery
@@jeancrystobal7942 I never said that at all. I've been running lithium for 4 years, across a wide range of Australian temps. No issues. Never had them shut down.
Great video, exactly what I needed.
Great to hear!
Good test!..
Now I work with batteries every day in my work as a wheelchair and mobility scooter technician. We run AGM's for safety reasons. Temperature is one of the dangers we are concerned with in Lion's
If you let this battery serve its life out in the camper. PLEASE make sure you can yank it out in 2 seconds flat!! For if it does catch fire there is no way as a civilian, that you can douse it...
Our highway firefighters have a truck with a double insulated container full of water in which they dunk Tesla's that burn out, and they leave it there, submerged, for 2 weeks!! For it will keep burning and keep flaring up if they don't..
Even if you run an F-class fire extinguisher (for heavy metals) you can't stop a lithium Ion battery burning. So be safe and have a way to, very quickly, take the battery out of the vehicle. Something like a slide out, or drop out battery box so you could expel it in seconds and. Drag it far enough away so it can burn out away from your stuff...
Thanks for the test and be safe!
Why didn’t you try it with a heat shield wrap? The heat shields protect from radiant heat up to 2000 degrees. I saw where a guy from Australia did it for 2 years.
Try idling in traffic for 2 hours like the typical commuter in the city.
I have been looking at putting a pair of lithiums in the bed of my Tacoma, but I also had thoughts of putting one under the hood as a cranking battery (for weight reduction and off angles while wheeling) in conjunction with a super capacitor bank... but the heat (and price) has been discouraging me from doing so.
It was only tested for the overheat condition, what about sub-zero (C) condition? :)
Thank you for enlightening us. I was nearly buy a lithium battery to power buy combustion car
Awesome video. What about keeping the battery in the back of the vehicle? I guess you'd have the issue on hot sunny days when you park the car with the windows rolled up and it would get hot inside there also.
Having the lithium battery inside would work perfectly, if there's room for it.
@@WanderlostOverland I guess you would always have to keep the windows down so it doesn't heat up inside. Maybe you could find a safe spot underneath near the rear of the vehicle?
Always great info. Loved the ideas at the end. Hood vents earn at least 5 horsepower. ;)
Glad you liked it!
Can't you take the plastic cover out of the non functioning hood scoop and duct air to it that way?
Never thought of that.....great idea!
12 year warranty and company is already gone in a year. Just bought one on ebay, hope it lasts.
Meanwhile... Europe and the rest of the world is scratching it's heads... Fahrenheit? What? We do metric and Celsius
Good testing btw, thanks for that. Especially now (July 2024) with that guy being sued.
This company knows how to engage with their customers. They react in a very good way. Compared to that other company (3 letters).
One of the problems is not heat but cold. Lithium batteries do not behave well in subfreezing temperatures.
So, if one did have room inside the FJ, you could recommend the Lioncore 75?
Besides the moments when it got too hot and shut down the internal safety device the battery performed flawlessly. And taking into account the company's interest and help in our testing and what we were trying to accomplish, we believe the ElectroVolt company, and its products, is one we can highly recommend.
ok that being said , what about storing it in the car or in the trunk with a smart charger and a bluetooth battery monitor
Most new cars don’t charge li batteries to the high voltage they like not 13.8v need to add a diodes but you also need a sms so all the cells get charged the same
Great video. Question - did you run your test with GOVEE sensors in the engine bay to measure temps under the hood? If so, how did you connect the Govee to your cell? I have Govees at home, but they connect to my router. How did you overcome that istall by connecting it to your cell? Please advise.
They go through an app via bluetooth
Fires start if you store a 25 to 50% charged LI battery. When Fully charged they are stable. My rules is LEDA OR LITHIUM I NEVER DISCHARGE OVER 75% and for storage they need to be FULLY CHARGED and you will be OK. My LI battery is 14 Years old now. Saved me $1500.00 in the long run for JUST starting up my car and driving it.
You got it backwards - charge to 80% or less - good to go - 100% takes life out of battery and at extreme risk to occupants
why not just relocated the battery to a different compartment?
Cut or build air flow through the insulated box ☑️
why not place it in the trunk? or under the truck where the spare tire is?
What about test it in an EV? There is no engine heat, only weather temp. I am interested to know if it can work in EV vechicles.
EV's are a joke
I'm thinking of getting an Xs Power titan 8(titanate) lithium car audio battery under the hood. They say it's safe up to 140° but after seeing your video and personal experience it gets way hotter than that. I want to get it because it's simple. I could pop right in but my gut tells me it's going to be dangerous. What are your thoughts on that?
I have yet to find a lithium battery that can withstand the high temps. And I've been looking hard.
@@WanderlostOverland so I guess there's no safe lithium you could put under the hood. Looks like I'll have to find a way in the trunk. Thanks.
So, I guess I should have an AGM battery under the hood for the things I use less frequently and the Lithium in the car for the other devices that are power-hungry and in constant use.
Thanks. I was going to do that. Not now!
There's a problem! The cells on the side that is getting hot will be a higher voltage which will cause the balancer to reduce their state of charge. This will realistically be throwing the cells out of balance so if you use them for a year or so like this and then you charge up fast the BMS will see high cell voltage on the cells on the colder half of the battery and it will disconnect the battery from your system.
My under hood lithium caught on fire the other day. It was very hot, I was in grid lock traffic, I wasn't running a bms or type of protection, my starter was dragging causing a higher amp draw, and I cranked it too long running the battery way down. So pretty much everything you could do to put it in danger. One of the headway cells blow out fire for a few seconds. I was very fortunate this happened when the hood was up. No damage.
Real issue is cold no? These batteries shut down around freezing... LOVED the outro!!! Pure comedy.
Why are we 2 years behind from Australia’s under the hood lithium batteries?
Scary right? We've seen those batteries blow up. They call it fire. But come on, it's an explosion. Is there room under the back seats? I bet you though of that. Even if you had to cut a hole and build a drop pocket.
I had some temperature concerns with my 2 Renogy 100ah lithium batteries that are installed in the bed of my truck under my topper. It get's hot back there but no where near what it would in the engine bay. I'm in the Northeast so the ambient temp doesn't usually go over 100 degrees but from the data I've gathered through my Victron Cerbo & temperature sensor, my max in-bed temp has been 113F. This was parked in the sun for the entire day and Renogy claims 131F or below for charging and 140F or below for discharging of that model battery. Great test though and awesome info! Looks like these definitely don't belong under hoods yet!
Big thanks man 🙏🏼
I have the same fears using lithium. I live in Europe and I travel between very hot Spain Portugal and colder Sweden climate. And with external box the lithium battery get hotter or cold no matter how many isolation I put. I try even fans but nothing.they stop to charge and in one case the bms totally stopped. I stay with agm. It's safer for this moment
genesis offroad makes dual battery set ups that are safer than your ideas. I've seen what happens when people play with lithium-ion. things burning up aren't for me!
In other words, this battery can be used in vehicles, provided that it is isolated from the heat generated by the engine! This shows that the battery should not be under the hood for now, but in the trunk or something. Yes, vehicles with a battery in the trunk can do this.
maybe thicker insulation + 12v heating & cooling pads (controlled by thermostat) to fully enclose the battery
If your temperature sensors logged data would love to see the graph of temperature rise in the harsh test. That would provide a sense of what’s possible versus simply “don’t do this”
Do the same test on Dcs 80extreme or even the cheaper versions, without dcd2dc... just as simple drop-in replacement.
if you can relocate the battery somewhre inside the truck then I think it will be just fine and would last way longer than SLA batteries
Nice video guys, honest review all the way around, I just wish that I could buy a new 4Runner, very few of them out there .......
The redarc would have stopped charging at those temperatures.
But it didn't...
@@WanderlostOverland hmm.
Awesome report, thank you for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
What if you have a remote battery in the trunk of the car?
That will work.
Good research! I had no idea L-ion batteries were so prone to high temps.
He isn't using Li-Ion he is using LiFe.
Is the temp the same on the otherside? Also have you considered a bigger bonnet scoop like what they use for after market bigger top mount intercooler's?
solid video, i mean easiest solution would just be relocating the slightly smaller lithium ion battery within the engine bay closer to the front where there is direct airflow. It would be really easy to execute on smaller engines like inline 4s
I think your idea of putting it in a battery box and then active cooling should have merit. I doubt you would need a thermostat as it should really only be hot during the time the vehicle is running (so accessory on). Curious if anyone has attempted this and what has been tried (air or liquid cooling etc).
Read my mind I was researching this
Ditto… $900cad is steep… but so many amp hours
Lifepo4 has a 100ah for $470, thinking of using as a portable 2nd battery to throw in the back, mounting a dcdc charger to the battery box to use between vehicles. Seems like it might work well
@@andygustafson1 I would highly recommend the redarc charger. I don't personally have it, but the tow controller is built extremely well.
optima batteries = no good
Okay.
I don't have a passenger seat. Instead I have a mini microwave, Engel fridge, and inverter. I think I'll mount the Lithium in there too. I guess I would also need a DCDC charger. Yes?
BTW I have seen every single video you guys have made. Multiple thumbs up!
Thanks for watching Steve! Great plan for a second battery! Yup, you'll need a dc-dc charger. I would suggest getting one with built-in solar charging capability too.
Have you considered using a slimline type lithium battery and mount it the car? They are available in 100Ah and 200Ah, and could be a solution for you. The slimline version could fit behind the rear seats of your 4Runner.
We have and that's still an option for us.
Great Review and information happy wheeling 👍👍🗽🇺🇸
The Vermonter
Thanks!
10:08 😲
Why not swap the inslation for a heat shield type inclosure with a fresh air duct and a little fan that runs while the motor is making heat? Or mount it under the rear of the suv.
Good idea!
... what happens 2 the lith batt when it's submerged in (river/rain) H2O !?
Don't know, never did it.
Very informative video
Thanks for sharing 😊
One question..Have you posted information on your install of the DC to DC battery charger ?
Thanks
We have two separate install videos.
This is the one you saw in this video: th-cam.com/video/1JkH8sH_uK0/w-d-xo.html
Here's the system we installed in our FJ. It's a bit more budget friendly: th-cam.com/video/la1Em1WOisA/w-d-xo.html
an option might be to run a duct work into the fender well and just place a small filter or screen on it to reduce additional dust, debris or water from getting up there.
That's on our list of possibilities, if or when we pursue this farther.
I like the "air jacket idea". Maybe vent the battery jacket enclosure to both the intake airbox on one side and the fender on the other, so that the intake draws air fender-air through the battery enclosure, and keeps the jacket at about the outside air temperature?
I'm starting to think that's probably going to be our best option, THANKS!
Thank you so much for this test. Great information. You never know until you try!
Exactly!
Do you think 75AH is optimal for off-road needs?
Everyone's needs are going to differ of course, but for ours 75ah in an AGM, really 37, is enough for us. A full 75ah out of the lithium would have been nice though.
Thanks again for all the efforts you guys put into your informative video's, We GREATLY appreciate it, they're really helpful as we look into options for our build! BTW, are you guys going to Expo West?
Our pleasure!
Great video. Was looking into having a lithium battery.
Thank you!
I like your idea of an air jacket. Looking forward to the results.
Me too!
Great testing, and i like the ingenuity and the active venting and cooling idea you suggested in the end... but be careful 🔥🧯🧯
Thanks, will do!
so if the battery melts down and burns up your truck , will your insurance cover you ?
Good question.
Yes
You need to look into a peltier cooler , very cheap and easy to setup. You could run the battery under the hood with the peltier cooler and probably keep it under 100 at all times.
Peltier coolers are cheap but they aren't economical to run as they use quite a bit of power. Also, there's a limit to what temperature differential they can achieve at that heat.
@@munecito True, they can draw the amps but they can get approx 40 degree temp change. So a well designed insulated box with a cooler could do the job. Remember you only need the cooler on when the motor is running. You could even throw in a temp controller (less than $10) to turn on and off the cooler as needed when the motor is running.
Just thinking outside the box. I personally run my Battleborn lithium battery in the floorboard behind the driver seat of my Runner.
Nice job, thank you
Thanks for watching!
Great test scenario's!! Thank you!! J&C
Thanks for watching!
Tell your husband to bring back the buzzcut look!!! Hair is getting crazy shaggy
I told him last w/e. He just said “Whatever”.
@@WanderlostOverland time to take matters into your own hands hahah. Take out the clippers :) its been a very long time since the last haircut video. The last one was soo funny would be great if you did another home buzzcut 🙏🙏🙏
@@user-lq8fr5ns9m Actually he did not want me to film it, but I did post a series of photos on our FB page of his buzz yesterday. Take a look. I’ve got mad skills! LOL
@@WanderlostOverland just saw it!! A thousand times better!! I really hope this becomes a regular feature on your channel. Its also so fun and entertaining when you buzz his hair 🙏🙏
A really good video. Thanks.
Glad you liked it!
So CTek gone?
Nope, CTek is in our FJ Cruiser.
Great job man!
Thanks!
Hi I did the same experiment with my 2002 F250 because I wanted a battery to work in the cold so I thought the engine heat would heat the battery when super cold to accept a charge from solar cells on the top tent which is on top of my camper shell. It worked beautiful in the winter . In the summer a little different worked but got hot . I then moved the battery opposite my air conditioner condenser insulation for three sides the back was left open . Solved my problem work great all seasons under all conditions. My engine compartment is I think a lot larger so this might have helped too . It is always fun to design things and experiment with things especially when they work . Never give up .